1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: My hopes and dreams are to finish my prison terms 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: sooner than my sentence is judged by the federal government. 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: I hope I can get out and do positive things 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: as a human being. I want to reunite with my 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: brothers and sister and have a close relationship with all 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: of them. I want to rebuild the trust that they 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: once had for me. I want a house in Texas 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: or Florida where I can have a small property. I 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: also want to travel and see Europe, Australia, the Philippines, Alaska, 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: and buy a boat and explore the South Pacific for 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: wreckage to recover and sell to antique dealers. I also 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: want to begin another career as a photographer for models 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: and wedding parties. I would like to work in healthcare 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: or a home business where I can work hard, make money, 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: and succeed in life. Welcome to The Dockerty Gang, a 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios Episode eleven, 17 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: Third World Country on Mars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie lie Decker. We've been 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dougherty Gang for 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell their 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: story for the very first time, each from separate prisons. 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. The podcast You 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: are about to Hear contains explicit language and mature content 27 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: that some listeners may find offensive. Let's call to think 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: that I am a good person. Yeah, maybe I've done 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: from my family. Isn't one of them. You know, maybe 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: I would like to change though the way that I 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: was there. But I'll never say I'm sorry for I'm kind. 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sorry for being a My family 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: marks the tenure anniversary of the Dougherty family Crimes Free. 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: Despite the fact that they're only able to communicate via email, 35 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: their devotion remains intact. This is producer Beth Greenwald on 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: with Ryan in one of their final interviews. It's not 37 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: like Good Fellows. We didn't just get like some fresh 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: pudo and fucking some loaves of bread and a couple 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: of bottles of wine. It's not like that. This ship 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: is very fucking uh there and they're kind of off 41 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: stir or whatever the fucking word is. And you got 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: like a few clothes. You might have like a pair 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: of shoes, you might have some of your personal photos 44 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: in a little bit of food, Like you don't really 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: have anything. I really is in like a concrete block 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: room with like a metal locker than painted gun metal gray. 47 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: Everything is white on gray everywhere except for some blue 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: accent for like where the phones are at and where 49 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: the doors are at. Right, besides that, the same aryact color. 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: And it's like it's seen know, there's no windows. Cloths 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: are easily acceptable like that. It's super eutilitarian, Like they're 52 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: tu bunks in the room that's like I don't know, 53 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: seven feet by nine feet, right, there's a toilet in 54 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: the stink and and there you go. You've got like 55 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: a couple of uniforms that they give you, and give 56 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: you a pair of boots that are sucking made out 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: of like cardboard and like dead animals. Like it's very minimal. 58 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: That's all on how you look at it. When's the 59 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: last time I had to cook the dinner? I don't 60 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: have to cook the dinner. Somebody else cooks dinner for me. 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: What's the last time I washed my you know, my clothes. 62 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: I don't have to. I can put him in the 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: bag and somebody else wash us. So we have to 64 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: clean the bathroom in the shower, somebody does that. I 65 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: don't have to sweepelf before or somebody else does that. 66 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I want to a close 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: side and you know, play horseshoes or you know, basketball 68 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: or botchy ball or half a dozen other things. I 69 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: know means that I like being in prison. I'm just 70 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: saying as far as you kind of shift your reality. 71 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: And one time I came and I said something to 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: my attorney and she's like, oh, why are you so happy? 73 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: You know? And I, hell, yeah, I had thirty two 74 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: years in Colorado. This is my federal attorney. And you know, 75 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a you know, a crazy sent spare 76 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: with the beds, and I was like, well, you know, 77 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I focused on what I do have, 78 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: not on you know, and she's like, well, what else 79 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: you don't have? And I was like, well, if I 80 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: focused all the things I didn't have, I'm ansoes go 81 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: back to the unit. And you know, tied sheet around 82 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: the rail and jump over. Here's Lee Grace giving her 83 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: take on life in prison. The first year is really 84 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: hard because you're a gap thing. But once you adapt 85 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: and you can see things and your vision becomes clear 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: about how people really are and how the officers really aren't, 87 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: how the unit team really are, and the people that 88 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: work in the prison system, everything gets so much worse 89 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: because you see the reality, you see the honesty. So 90 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: I've been here about eight, eight or nine years. She's 91 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: I need to count, but I think eight years. And 92 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: where were you before that? I was in Hazelton, a 93 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: small within prison in West Virginia. It's a federal facility. Well, 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: I mean they're both federal facilities, but I've been in 95 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: I was in county before that, so that causes a 96 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: lot of confusion. State and said are completely different type 97 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: of prison. Ryan is having a harder go of it 98 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: in prison. But I ended up doing timing about six 99 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: different county jails in Georgia. Why are they when they 100 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: heard that? Like, I was having a hard out time 101 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: in making because making took me from in bib County jail. 102 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: There's a murder every time they run wrecked there like 103 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: somebody dies, somebody gets stabbed at death. Like it's more 104 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: violent than any of the prisons I've ever been to. 105 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: It's like rats all over the floor and cockroaches, and 106 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: you'd be lucky if you get a mattress, Like there's 107 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: no food. It took me from two hundred thirty seven 108 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: pounds to a hundred and fifty eight pounds and a 109 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: little less than six months, so you do the math. 110 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: Marshall came and picked me up and didn't recognize me. 111 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: He's like, what the funk happened? And I told him 112 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: it was like, bro, listen, when I get in the 113 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: van with you right now, y'all are gonna have to 114 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: beat the funk out of me and taste for me 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: in order to get me to go back into that 116 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: county jail. Ryan is in protective custody at his prison 117 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: due to being charged with sending a minor harmful information 118 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: and loud moss of his conduct. It was the original 119 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: case that tipped off the entire crime spree. The yard 120 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: where I'm out currently is like splits, like seventy job 121 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: molesters and other either gang dropout, rat, hit the wrong person, 122 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: bad luck, drug that you know, take pick or choose. 123 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: But anyways, right you cut it, you're not good you know, 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: and you're not in good standing, so you end up here. 125 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: And this is like the bottom of the barrel. So 126 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: like I look at these people would disdain because the 127 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: ones that like, let's call the ones that like raped 128 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: their two year old daughter. You know, I think they 129 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: should burn in hell. But you know, it's not my 130 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: place to judge or punish them, like that's that's not 131 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: my deal. And then for me at like a regular yard, 132 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: somebody would look at me for fucking a fifteen year 133 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: old stick when I was eighteen, and it's the same 134 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: as they would look at one of these people that 135 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: suck the ju world, you know, when they were forty. 136 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't there's no differentiation in their eyes. I mean 137 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: in the beginning, you're a good looking guys. You get 138 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: into jail, it's twenty something years old. Are you protecting 139 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: at all in anyway? But no, No, it's predatory as ship. 140 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: Let's protect your own asshole with a knife forget raped. 141 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's one of the two. Lee Grace has 142 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 1: their own opinion of the women's prison. These are women 143 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: that have fat on their asses and couches all day, 144 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, selling drugs out of their out of their basement. 145 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: These aren't athletic, strong, strapping women from Alaska. These are fat, 146 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: overweight people from the South, so they're not good fighters. 147 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: Men can kill somebody and women can't. Well, it would 148 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: take a lot for somebody a woman. There's not very 149 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: much violence. Women are all bullshit and talk and physically 150 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: they're weak, so they can't. It's hard for them to 151 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: kill somebody. This call is from a federal prison. Men 152 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: can just snap your neck or you know, stabby in 153 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: the artery and just you know, rip your heart out. 154 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: So women don't really fight with weapons and men do. 155 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: So once you get a shank in your hand, it's 156 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: really easy to flip somebody's throat. Meanwhile, Ryan is living 157 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: in fear, like there's been a few stabbings recently, and 158 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: there's been a few people hitting the head with locks, 159 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: and there's been a few people kicked in the head 160 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: with boots, and like, the majority of that violence is 161 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: either because of gay stuff or people owing money, or 162 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: just people not wanting to be here. That's steered the 163 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: conversation with Ryan to work. But what about the people 164 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: then you know the other prisoners that work, do they 165 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: make a wage that volunteer based? How does that work? 166 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: It's volunteer based. It's work if you want to. They're 167 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: trying to pay the dudes like eighteen dollars months to 168 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: clean ten showers twice a day, five days a week, right, 169 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 1: and it's like you gotta get in there and you 170 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: gotta scrub, and like people are nasty. There's like jizz 171 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: or fucking used razors or like a pubic care ball 172 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: the size of a raccoon in the corner. It's just agreed. 173 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: Just man, here's Dylan talking about his day to day life. 174 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: I just changed jobs. You know. I used to work 175 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: on the rack yard. Was king water keg build up 176 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: the water kigs, and I know that's something like wow, well, 177 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: I mean what is that? You know, when you have 178 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: five people in the yard and there's you know, ten 179 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: ten gallon kigs push at least three Olympic swimming pools 180 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: of water up that girl in the six years that 181 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: I've been out there, so I recently went to facilities. 182 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: Thank you all the plumbing, electrical. If you realize that 183 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: the prison is, you know, the maintenantonent is kept up 184 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: by the you know, the inmate population. We didn't work, 185 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't keep us locked up. But but I went 186 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: to facilities that Bunny might got me a job down there. 187 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: It's weirdy one way that, you know, maintaining the cage 188 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: that keeps me, but it also gives me a chance 189 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: to do stuff that I used to do on the 190 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: street and feel productive. Here's beout speaking with Ryan about 191 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: how different events in his life have shaped to my 192 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: the person. Let me ask you something. When you look 193 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: at this big picture, is there a moment that if 194 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: things like just a little differently, this wouldn't have been 195 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: the story? Oh man, you know what. Yeah, there's pivot 196 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: points in everyone's life. There's big watershed moments, right and 197 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: I guess the first one is the youngest one. When 198 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: I was a kid and my father died, you know, 199 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: seven years old, fam right then and there, that's a 200 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: big momentum the car accident where I broke my neck 201 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: and I smashed my head and I have a dramatic 202 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: brain injury from that. Um. That's another one that's kind 203 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: of where I fell in love with opiates, from sucking 204 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: breaking my back and having to take oxycotton and morphine 205 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: and ship because my back hurt. And then uh, let's 206 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: see what else here, Oh, when my sister died. That 207 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: was a vicious one because man, if you want to 208 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: talk about a completely different person, that's where it felt 209 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: like I developed two separate personalities that go on in 210 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: my head at any given time. While Ryan remembers his pain, 211 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: Dylan tries to remain positive. You know a lot of 212 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: people big they you know, they have a lot of 213 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: regrets and and and the whole you know, everything is 214 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: it's a negative. And it does not for you know, 215 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: it's just not me. And so I don't really dwell 216 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: on the situation a lot. And when I really sit 217 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: down and think about it, sometimes it does kind of 218 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: pluck out my heart stream. Annie Armstrung me out as 219 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: a psychotherapist who has followed the Dougherty story closely. More 220 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: adverse experience as a kid has loss of a parent, 221 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,479 Speaker 1: substance abuse in the home, separation, you know of siblings, 222 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: those things all would be considered adverse experiences. So the 223 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: higher doses of adversity, they do affect the pleasure and 224 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: reward center of the brain. And what happens is the 225 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: person needs a higher dose of whatever that pleasure stimulant 226 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: is in order to feel pleasure, and so people who 227 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: have higher amounts of adverse childhood experiences are way more 228 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: likely to be involved in risky behavior. In one of 229 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: her last interviews with Lee, Grace's attorney Patrick McCarville, that 230 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: spoke with him about Marfan syndrome, the genetic cart disorder 231 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: that runs in the Dougherty family, and how that may 232 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: have affected her family's choices in life. You know, they 233 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: lost dead, they lost sister both to Marfan syndrome. You know, 234 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: at least in your conversation with Lee, did she feel 235 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: like she didn't ever longed to live or she you know, 236 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: was that a huge factor in her actions? Absolutely? I 237 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: think the night that they hatched this plan, I believe 238 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: they discussed that they didn't believe that they would live 239 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: as long as most people because of that hereditary disease, 240 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: and that was a factor in what caused them to 241 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: do these crimes. They were going to get out of 242 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: Dodge and go live happily ever after together as a 243 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: family with what all time they thought they had left. 244 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: Sean McEwan is a filmmaker who wrote and directed a 245 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: feature film about the Doughertyes. He's also a friend to 246 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: the trio. I think what strikes me at this point, 247 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: kind of revisiting the story and kind of seeing it 248 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: through a lens of the perspective of a decade later, 249 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: is that I vacillate between two truths. One is the 250 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: tragedy that they didn't accomplish their objective. While I'm very 251 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: glad no one got injured and could have. But the 252 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: tragedy that, apparently and everything that they say is all 253 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: about the fact that they just wanted to be together 254 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: and be safe and get the heck out of Dodge 255 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: and try to forge this new life and that didn't happen. 256 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: And then yet and maybe I'm just trying to be 257 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: the total optimist here in some sense, but they they 258 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: still have this bond. That bond is stronger than ever. 259 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: You can hear it, and the way they retell the 260 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: stories you can hear it, and how strong the feelings 261 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: are toward each other. So in spite of it all, 262 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: nothing could separate them. They are still figuratively still together. 263 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: Their ten years into their sentences, but they've done thirty years. 264 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: That's how they think of the others. There that intertwined 265 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: that when you add it up, that's thirty years of 266 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: them all being apart, not spending time together, you know. 267 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: And by the some of this, it's years of that, 268 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, when you compound it like that, And I 269 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: think that's what's so interesting. Also, they're not going to 270 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: have that opportunity to really beating each other's lives, and 271 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: that's all they really ever wanted. We're going to take 272 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. 273 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: Although the docerty has pled their cases, the Florida courts 274 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: have not settled with Dylan and Lee. Grace. Ryan is 275 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: the only one of the siblings who are a you 276 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: play out in Florida. Here's Beth speaking with Dylan. This 277 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: call was from the federal prison. This call, it's from 278 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: Dylan family. You may begin speaking now, Hey, how are 279 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: you doing. I'm in a really bad mood now, not 280 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: just kind of a legal letter from my new attorney 281 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: that I have in Florida, and um, I don't know 282 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: what is going on down there, but yeah, what what 283 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: does the letter say? Well, I've had to learn that 284 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: apparently much time so I could start until I get 285 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: this case resolved. And so like, I don't know, I 286 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: was on any impression that they would it would you know, 287 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: I would start from the moment that I was InCAR 288 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: story would just come up on ten years now. So 289 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: he's saying that I'm not I get creative for the 290 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: time that I've served already, which is just unacceptable because 291 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: it you know, forty years since. So only they they're 292 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: offered me with a twenty five year minimal menatory with 293 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: another fifteen years recurrent want to I want to play 294 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: charged second secondary to the attempted murder police officers. So 295 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I just just uh, I don't know. It 296 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: was crazy. Dylan has been serving his sentences concurrently, and 297 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: this letter revealed that he may face even more time 298 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: in Florida. But the real question is why did it 299 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: take so long? Ten years later they're deciding to do this, Well, 300 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean ten years, they haven't done anything. They just 301 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: sort of they have. They never came to get me, 302 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: They never you know what I mean. They just whenever 303 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: I go to a new institution, they relodge a detainer 304 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: against me. And it's just like, I don't know, they 305 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: were just waiting for waiting for me to get out 306 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: and then have the State troopers come quickly up after 307 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: serve you know, thirty years in the FEDS or you know, 308 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's really weird. I just emailed my 309 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: brother and so I got that and asked him if 310 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: they have started his time in two thousand and eleven 311 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: or if that is indeed what they did, because he 312 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: didn't he didn't get the case result until two thousand 313 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: and fourteen. But it's definitely, you know, it's not good news. 314 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: How long do you have this lawyer I'm working on this, 315 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: he just started. I just kind of you know, because 316 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: I was I was wanting to get this all resolved 317 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: before all these other things, you know, work out, and 318 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: I just want to kind of wanted it behind me 319 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: and you know, a bow tied on it, and then 320 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: I could have you know, a day and uh, you know, 321 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: and and start working towards that, you know, the definitive day. 322 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: You know. It's definitely disheartening because if that's true, that's true, 323 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: I I'm I have to take it a trial. I'm 324 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: not gonna you know what I mean, she just if 325 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: nothing shakes out with my stay cake and then you're 326 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: talking to ten ten years, it's dead time. It's kind 327 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: of just so it's you know, that just that puts 328 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: me at you know, six eight seventy years old. Do 329 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: we know we we don't know if Lee Grace that 330 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: a letter as well? Right, talk to her, you know 331 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: what I mean, letter show explain to you what her 332 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: attorneys told her. She said that her attorney back, she 333 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: had so hard. You're up there and you know, sucking 334 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: a lask her, you know, moth Ambique and we really 335 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have a mule train to come 336 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: get you. Just you know, I don't know, I don't 337 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: understand why it's so hard. You know, I mean I've 338 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: been in the same institution for uh seven years or 339 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: six years, uh probably you know, uh not even three 340 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: miles from the support state line, you know what I mean. Uh, 341 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: if this was a big deal to them, and my 342 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: my whole mindset on it was let it sit and 343 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: that the that the you know, it was a rolling boil, 344 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: the oil it boiled over on the stove and it 345 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: was you know, I was just like, well, let's just 346 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: let it kind of simmered down, and you know what 347 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I can go down there and and can 348 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: get taken care of, you know, seven or eight, nine, 349 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: ten years and you know, maybe to be halfway forgotten 350 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: and people won't you know, you know, I felt like 351 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: time was you know, time heals all wounds or whatever. 352 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: Dylan's new attorney, the man who sent him the letter 353 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: was recommended by a fellow inmate. The first thing he 354 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: opens up with is is, you know, I built a 355 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: half hower for this, and I build a half power 356 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: for that. And I was over here for fifteen minutes 357 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: and I was over there for forty five minutes. So 358 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: I mean he's opened up with his his breakdown on 359 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: the building and you know, and says that, you know, 360 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: my so and so is gonna, you know, is takeing 361 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: care of the charges. And you know it's funny Kobe Becker, 362 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: who I have all the admiration in respect for, and 363 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: I can't thank her enough. You know, she was more 364 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: than willing to do it. She said, it's only on 365 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: her fifty hours from her to get her federal stamp 366 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: for the Middle District of Georgia or whatever the hell 367 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: it was. And you know, I looking at her as 368 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: the first time mom, I was, I was working that 369 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: selfish and I said, no, I'm sure they'll give me 370 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: a great attorney, and they gave me a sorry, worthless attorney. 371 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: And I wish I had been selfish and told her, yeah, 372 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: I want you to be all want to represent me 373 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: the whole way. It's probably not too late to do that. Well, 374 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: I mean, if you speak to her, I need all 375 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: the help I can get, apparently, because this is just 376 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's he's not really a I mean 377 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: need a criminal attorney. It says that on his letter 378 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: head here, but it's first says a personal injury and 379 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: then criminal defense and then certified me came. Have you 380 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: reached out to Kobe at to say, no, you just 381 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: just got the information from you last and I'm gonna 382 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: go up here and get it on the computer tonight, 383 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: and trying to shoot her, Uh it's an email or 384 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm really gonna give on my counselor trying to give 385 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: it A couple of attorney calls this week to where 386 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: I can get the bottom is that's reached out to 387 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: Kobe Becker, Dylan's lawyer from Colorado, to see if she 388 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: could offer Dylan any advice. Is it normal for what's 389 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: happening with Florida rearing its headed this way? I don't 390 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: know that I would associate anything with Florida and the 391 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: criminal justice system is being quote unquote normal. Um. But 392 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: what I can say is that what happens at the 393 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: state level is if there is a federal case, we 394 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: basically say, so these charges have always been in existence 395 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: is by understanding in Florida, and so they didn't They 396 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: had already charged him as what my understanding is, but 397 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: they never brought him there because you know, we kind 398 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: of I don't use the term joke, but we always 399 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: sort of off handedly comment like once our clients go 400 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: in the federal system, they're sort of lost and we 401 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: don't we can never get them back. And so I 402 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: don't know why Florida is coming up now other than 403 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: he could be. I think he's nearing the halfway point 404 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: of his sentence, even with good time and earn time. 405 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: I actually have contacted some of my friends in the 406 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: Florida area to try to find him a criminal defense 407 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: attorney in his county, and I'm thankful to know so 408 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: many people, so I'm hoping to get him somebody that 409 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: can do something better than what the offer is there now, 410 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: because that's just ridiculous and they're actually asking for it. 411 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: To be served consecutive. I think my understanding is to 412 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 1: the federal system, and that's just completely assent. Is there 413 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: any opportunity, I mean, with good behavior and everything else 414 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: in a Florida isn't what's the earliest he could get out, 415 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: even with good time and earned time, He'd have to 416 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: serve of his sentence before his paro eligible. And I 417 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: think that's right in the federal system. In the state 418 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: of Colorado at seventy five percent. But because our prisons 419 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: are so overcrowded here in Colorado, the state legislature enacted 420 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: a new law I believe that went into effect last 421 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: year twenty and that law basically says that the Department 422 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: of Corrections can determine despite the statue providing for sev 423 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,239 Speaker 1: the Department of Corrections is actually the ones that can 424 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: determine when their parole eligible through time, comp etcetera. So 425 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: a lot of our seventy five percent statutory sentences are 426 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: going down to sixty or fifty percent. Here again, is 427 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: still maker Shawn McEwen speaking with Beth. You met them 428 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: eight years ago. You see a difference in them now. 429 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: I mean when you start talking, they were two years 430 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: into this prison sentence. Is there a big difference in them? 431 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: Is it's the same. Do they seem hopeful? Do they 432 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: seem more hopeless? Yeah? I see a big difference. You know, 433 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: as far as the difference in how they are now 434 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,239 Speaker 1: compared to how they were years ago, I think there 435 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: was you know, I felt like I was talking to 436 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: kids still. Again, this is from my perspective, whereas now 437 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: I feel like they have matured, they have aged, and 438 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: with that has come wisdom and perspective, and they're cleaner 439 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: figuratively and literally. So with that, I think they have 440 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: clarity of mind and there is remorse for what they 441 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: did in the decisions that they don't think they had 442 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: a clear understanding of what this time stretcher really meant. 443 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I think when you talk to somebody who's young, 444 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: who's in their late late teens, early twenties, and you 445 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: talk about like, oh, the next ten years, the next 446 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: twenty years, that does sound like a lifetime to them, 447 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: but they don't really get it. This again, is Lee 448 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: Grace on her life behind bars? Well, prison is is 449 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: like this. It is basically a warehouse. You know, you 450 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: have your room, you have your door, you have your locker, 451 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: it's just a big storage facility where you just sit 452 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: in the same unit pretty much all day long, all 453 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: night long, and you just do your time day for day. 454 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: And they do have a prescription till line. You know 455 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: that you go and get your pill line medications. But 456 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: are any of these medications very good? No, they are 457 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: the we call them psychments. Basically, they are a lot 458 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: of medications that you cannot overdoes on medications you really 459 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: can't abuse. It's a lot of Prozac, a lot of Zoloff, 460 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: a lot of sarah quill or transdone or Laville, drugs 461 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: that make you sleep, drugs that make you gain weight. 462 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: Here's Ryan on how prison has changed him. Yeah, it's 463 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: just changed me funnally, fundamentally as a person. You know, 464 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: at my core, I'm still a really sweet, amenable guy, right, 465 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: but a lot of that and I don't know if 466 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: it's just from youth or whatever, but just got scrubbed 467 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: out of me. It's like I don't got that anymore. 468 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: My patience level is some ship and then I don't know, 469 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: you just learned that, like violence is really one of 470 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: the few ways to really communicate your point in here, 471 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: and like it's just have been a really nice thing that, like, 472 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: I haven't had to do anything in a few years, 473 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: so that's been nice. But it's it's still is prison. 474 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: This is Dylan on some things he's learned in prison. 475 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: It's like a third World country if there was the 476 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: Third World country on Mars. It's a weird little micro 477 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: constantly living. There's this whole social structure. I've learned a 478 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: lot since I've been here. I've learned a lot about 479 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: the people. He amplifies that you were before you came 480 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: to prison. When you come to prison, I think it 481 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: brings out whatever character qualities you had, It brings those 482 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: out poll more. You know, when Beth last spoke with Dylan, 483 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: he was in the Shoe, which is the special housing 484 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: unit within the prison. There was one story that you 485 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: were in the shoe for some sort of altercation with 486 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: your cell mate, and then there was another one that 487 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: you weren't feeling well. No, no, no, neither neither to evolve. 488 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: I'm good, I am getting a transfer, I am in 489 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: the shoe, but no, I'm fine. Things good. I can 490 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: only imagine when Lee Race told you sometimes she's a 491 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: sucking Indian. I found out pretty quick quick where you 492 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: went I just didn't understand why, and then wanted to 493 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: make sure you're okay because there was like a health question. Yeah, yeah, 494 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: I thought I fell getting out of rack. I have 495 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: just scarred by my eye right now, cossion. I went 496 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: to the hospital, Alpi Medical, to the street. But did 497 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: they spells are gone. I'm good. I don't have me 498 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: bringing in my ear anymore. So I'm just you know, 499 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: was just you know, lateen, laten and concussion issues and 500 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: they're go gone. Towards the end of their final interview, 501 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: Beth asked Dylan about his feelings of loyalty towards his family. 502 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with putting your loved ones before other people. 503 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people are gonna, you know, 504 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna like scratch their ear, and that's 505 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: the politically incorrect thing to say. But if I mean, 506 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: a woman should care about hurt children more than some 507 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: random person, and individual person should care about their family 508 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: more than just some random person. And that's that's my person. 509 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm all right. Uh, is there anything to 510 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: do for you? Yeah, I've come open to do are 511 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: so I can have some fresh air. You know, it's 512 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: it's a part of prison, you know, and there's the 513 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: show is a real fucked up spot. You know, you 514 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: just it's it's a prison within a prison, and you 515 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: really have you have absolutely nothing. Ryan is just as 516 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: devoted to family, and it becomes even more apparent when 517 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: he speaks about his now ten year old son. I've 518 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: just drilled it into into him unmercifully, along with the 519 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: fact that I love and I'm proud of him everything 520 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: that he does, but that you know, you want to 521 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: get a good education because there is a big difference 522 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: between doing what you want to do and doing what 523 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: you have to do. And people that don't have a 524 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: good education have limited options. It's not that you can't 525 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: succeed without an education, because you can't, it's just becomes 526 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: It's just it keeps options open. It's always nice in 527 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: life when you have options. It seems like you're full 528 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: on parenting from where you are trying to give him 529 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: what I was missing, and I'm trying to give him 530 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: everything I knew when I was twenty by the time 531 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: he's done. That's your job as a parent to try 532 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: and protect and look out for your kids, and like 533 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: I fail miserably at it because I'm not there. The 534 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: most important thing about being a parent is being rather 535 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: than being there, and I'm not physically there. Here's executive 536 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: producer Joseph Morgan. When you see images of a child, 537 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: as that child grows, you're not a part of that timeline. 538 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: You're not gonna soothe them when they're crying at night. 539 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: You're not gonna feed them. You're not gonna be there 540 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: to put the bike together that you want to convince 541 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: them at Santa Claus bro You're not gonna be there 542 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: for all that. You're not gonna be there to see 543 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: your your mama age out. And that's tragic. That's truly 544 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: the tragedy. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll 545 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: be back at a moment. The Dougherty siblings are not 546 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: permitted to make outgoing calls to one another. They can 547 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: only communicate through letters, emails and through this podcast. Here 548 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: stockerty mother, Barbara Belle. I've had ten years and have 549 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: never had my say. Not once in ten years has 550 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: anyone asked me what happened my opinion. So I have 551 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: had ten years to think about what I want to 552 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: say about my children, and I want to say three things. 553 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: Number One, they never tried to harm anyone. They just 554 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: wanted to get away. They were all sharpshooters, So if 555 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: they had really tried to kill anyone, that person would 556 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: be dead. They did not kill anyone. Number Two, League Race, 557 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: Dylan and Ryan are not damaged goods. They are good, caring, 558 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: decent people who got all worked up in the middle 559 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: of the night with the threat of Ryan going to prison. 560 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: They felt they couldn't spare another family member lost to 561 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: death or prison. So with the threat of family annihilation 562 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: moving over them, they egged each other on and once 563 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: they got started, its snowballs and they felt they couldn't 564 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: turn back. And number three, they are different people now. 565 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: They regret what they did and they need to be 566 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: out here making a valuable contribution to society instead of 567 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: costing the taxpayers a hundred dollars a day each to 568 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: keep them in federal housing. And I guess that's about 569 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: all I have to say. Dylan and Lee Grace have 570 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: open cases in the Florida courts and they may face 571 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: more time. Lee Grace is currently thirty nine ineligible for parole. 572 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: In Ryan wanted me tell you that he loves you, Okay, 573 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: tell him I love him. She loved you, yes you 574 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I told you to 575 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: tell her the same thing. Dylan is currently thirty six 576 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: and eligible for parole. In I might be talking to 577 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: like Grace later, do you already tell or anything? I 578 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: just tell her, I said, I love her and what 579 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: she already knows. But just tell her, I said, what's up? 580 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: And I hope she's doing good. And Ryan is thirty 581 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: one and eligible for parole. Let's just be real, right 582 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: between you and me. I ruined their lives and they 583 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: would have been much better off without me and them, 584 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: right had I not been born, or had I not 585 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: involved them, or had I not caused that situation. You know, 586 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: it's just some things just are what they are, no 587 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: matter how dressed, how dressed up you make it. You know, 588 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: I ruined my brother and sister's life and they don't 589 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: deserve to be there and not gladly take like a 590 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: death penalty for them to go home. Right now, I 591 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: love them dearly. These were kids who, in a way 592 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: we're part of a system, and their perception was the 593 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: system failed them, And we can look at it now 594 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: and maybe realize that there is truth in that. You 595 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: look back and you sit in judgment of the people 596 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: that were in charge, not so much law enforcement, but corrections, 597 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: I think probation those individuals. You have one sparkly moment 598 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: in tom where you can exercise something that's a beautiful thing. 599 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: It's called mercy. For me, the one thing that I 600 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: would want people to take away from the story is 601 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: and some of it was responsible for this with their choices, 602 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: and some of it was truly circumstance. More on that 603 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want 604 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or 605 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: find their addresses to write them in prison, go to 606 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: our instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. If you're enjoying this podcast, 607 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: please listen and subscribe to Crazy in Love, Katie Studio's 608 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: latest true crime podcast. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced 609 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, along with 610 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound 611 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: design is by Jeff Twa, additional producing by Chris Graves 612 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: and Jeff Shane. The Docortor Gang is a production of 613 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from 614 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 615 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.