WEBVTT - 10 Big Cases of Revenge 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.960 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.600 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know? 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:16.479 From House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.800 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.880 that makes the stuff you should know. Jerry's in the 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:32.320 other room. Yes, being quiet as commanded. Um, yeah, how 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.000 you doing just I'm great. I feel like we haven't 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.800 mentioned Jerry much in a while. So she's got a 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:42.360 character playing She's a character on a TV pilot. There's 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.720 an actress playing her. Right, probably you thought to have 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.040 that removed right all over the place. I was like, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.600 we need less Jerry less Jerry not true, that's not true. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:59.040 So revenge. I'm a big revenge guy. Oh your huh, Well, no, 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.960 that sounds is bad. I'm a big come up in 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:08.000 skye in Justice, sky Sideline Reuters, you know, like you know, 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.240 when people get their come upance and justice is served. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.440 I'm very that's a very very satisfying experience for me. Well, 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.039 a friend, you would have done well to have lived 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:25.520 in Babylon around the seventeen sixties BC with the gardens. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.280 I love that stuff. Yeah, they were the pinking gardens 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.000 that would have been all over it. Yeah, gardens figured 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.800 heavily prominently in babylon Um, especially Chuck. I think you 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.399 would have enjoyed living under King Hammurabi. Yeah. The code. 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.000 He's the guy who came up with a code. We 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.280 take it. You know that whole eye for an eye 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.360 thing that you would stand on the sidelines, like take 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.960 out his eye, take out his eye, the other guy's eye. 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:53.880 I'm not like that because people are gonna think I'm 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.520 some violent person. Come up and can come in many forms. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.320 I know exactly what you're talking. Heart, Like Shank uh 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.200 Brooks hung himself. No, come up, it's against the warden. Like, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.079 that's satisfying to me to see that in a movie. 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.800 I don't remember what happened to the warden. Well, he 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:17.600 ended up, boy, should not spoil it. I think it's fine. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.880 He ended up shooting himself as the cops descended upon him. 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.760 What did he do wrong? He? What did he do wrong? 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.000 He held Andy there for years, knowing he was innocent. 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.480 He had the guy shot and killed who Andy had 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.320 tutored to get his g e D. Who had information 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.720 that would get his release from Like when the Melrose 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.200 Place or something like that. He ally McBeal, Yeah, I 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.080 think it was hallng mcbell. And then he uh uh 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.200 squandered money from what do you call it when you pension? 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.560 Uh yeah, not squandered he uh he no, hele money 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:59.040 essentially embezzled, embezzled money from the prison coffers. I it 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.959 wasn't the warden played by Burr Lives or something. I thought. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.919 I remember him as like a grandfatherly type, very supporting, 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.800 nurturing fellow. Now he's played by the guy that can't 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.640 ever play anything again because of that movie. Weird. I 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.200 have a list of revenge movies we can go over later. Okay, 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.640 oh yeah, there's plenty of those. Remember there's a whole 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.560 exploitation sub genre like I Spit on your Grave. That's 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.160 on the list. Um. But anyway, back to the Code 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.960 of Hammurabi. We take for for granted these days chuck 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.440 the eye for an eye, but this is literally the 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:36.440 beginning of that, and um, the beginning of systemic, uniform, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:42.800 uh socially sanctioned revenge. That's the justice system. It's revenge. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.760 It's like you did something and we're gonna get you 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.000 back for that. You're going to be punished. It's revenge. 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.240 That's the whole basis of the justice system. People can 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.000 him and how about reform and stuff like that, but 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:04.520 come on, it's revenge. It's punishments that I'm just saying, right, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:06.640 you can, you can dress it up all you want, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.040 you can do whatever you you you can to it. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:10.720 But when you boil it down, I think is what 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.120 we're both saying. The whole basis of the justice system 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.120 is revenge, and the Code of Hammurabi is the beginning 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.279 of this, and that it's also the beginning of the 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.279 eye for and eye think if I may, there's a 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.800 couple like the Code of Hammurabi kind of deals with 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.440 stuff that people were dealing with at the time, and 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.240 it goes far beyond like if you kill somebody, you're killed. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.960 It gets kind of specific. One of my favorites is 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.839 if a fire breakout in the house and someone who 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.400 comes to put it out cast his eye upon the 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.120 property of the owner of the house and take the 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.800 property of the master of the house, he shall be 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.720 thrown into that self same fire. So a louter essentially, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.120 you get thrown into the fire you came to help 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.040 put out. And then basically strict your moral obligation by 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.640 stealing instead of helping fight the fire. That's my favorite. Also, 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.640 there's a lot about runaway slaves, harboring runaway slaves, stealing slaves. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.120 If you find a bull of slaves and you want 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.120 to bring him back to the owner, um, the owner 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.960 owes you two shekels of silver. Uh. It deals with 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.080 inheritance law. If the son who inherits his father's land 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.320 is still too young and can't take possession of his fields, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.000 a third of the field will go to the mother 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.680 who basically is paid to raise him, although I think 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.720 she's going to do that anyway. But it's a uniform coat, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.279 especially dealing with revenge. Right. I say all this to 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.120 tell you that revenge is very old, Chuck. It is, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.040 and that's the code I mean. I bet took Took 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.640 took revenge over you know, the caveman who wronged him. Yes, 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.760 very primitive ways. I'm sure there was always revenge. And 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.599 depending on how evolved took Took's brain was. If he 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.400 had um dorsal stratium stri atom, why didn't I not 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.560 get that the first time? If he had a dorsal striatom, 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.960 which is governed in feelings of enjoyment and satisfaction. He 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.719 would have probably liked carrying out that vengeance because that 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.760 our pleasure center goes off when we um carry out 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.760 acts of revenge, especially when we think of it. But 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.400 that's why sometimes we will go to such great lengths 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.600 to carry out vengeance because it feels good. See, I'm 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.679 not a vengeance carry outer because I don't really get wronged, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.240 Like I've never had any huge, like wrongings against me. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.000 I would knock on wood at this point if I 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:26.520 were you. But um, I like seeing it played out 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.800 mainly in movies. You like standing on the sidelines and 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.840 shouting for the person's eye to be taken out. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.320 that's me. Do you want to talk about some cases 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.920 of revenge? Because I mean, there's there's it's one thing 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.920 to just say, hey, you know, that's great, that guy 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.680 got his come up, and it's but there's some really 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.240 legendary and some very grim cases of revenge in the 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.920 history of humanity. And we have covered well, you cover 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.960 ten in your article. Yeah, we're gonna cover what seven, eight, six, six, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.240 something like that. Like, we haven't done a top ten 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.640 in a while. It's been a very long. Actually, we've 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.040 never done a top ten because we only only cover 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.440 six or seven. We haven't based one on the top ten. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:11.000 It's waiting, correct, Uh, I like the spam King one, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.360 should we start there? Might as well? He's number ten. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.800 Alan Rowski Uh was known as the spam King because 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.360 he was an entrepreneur in Michigan who was one of 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.360 the guys, the main dudes signing you up for all 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.840 those spam emails that we all love before the dot 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.720 com bubble even burst had him in court for bulk 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.440 email spamming. But dude, he's got a rap sheet a 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.440 mile long. I looked at his his like, since this 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.440 is before the spam thing in the nineties, he had 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:45.720 all sorts of like, yeah, yeah, he's he's just kind 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.120 of a hustler kind of dude very much, you know, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.240 it's a good way to put it. But he got 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.000 his come uppance in the way of a junk email 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.320 of his own when his address was leaked online and 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.520 then really leaked online. Well, the whole way it came 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.560 out was there was a in I think the Detroit 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.960 Free Press maybe one of the UM one of the 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.280 local papers did a um a spotlight like just kind 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.080 of a soft touch spotlight on his spacious, eight thousand 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.480 square foot home that he paid seven because it was Detroit. 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.240 This one was on you, man, I was just going 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.320 to leave the Detroit alone, but go ahead, and yeah, so, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.400 uh so this guy is showing off his this man 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.559 who's been referred to as quote vermin and quote scum, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.400 is showing off his eight thousand square foot house built 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.920 on bulk email and spam. I bet he regrets that. 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.640 And somehow I I couldn't go back and find out 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.120 his address leaked like in the in the article, it 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.000 basically gave away his physical address and that was it. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.920 The trolls got him. The trolls got him and signed 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.480 him up for basically everything under the sun as far 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:59.240 as junk mail, like physical junk mail goes, which we've done. Wow, 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.600 we did podcast some junk mail. Remember that we didn't 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.280 remember where rid of it. And that one guy was like, no, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.079 we're employed by junk mail. So at at the peak 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.800 of his uh junk mail receivership, he was getting hundreds 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.600 of pounds and he was every day. Yeah, he was 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.320 pretty upset. I mean I saw interviews with him today 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.600 where he was like being harassed, and he was trying 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.880 to get courts to do something and they were just like, now, 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.760 come up, and I wish we had a trombone. Yeah, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.560 we should spice us up a little, Jerry a trombone please. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.880 She's like, thank you? All right? Did we cover him? Uh? Well, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.280 he's in jail now. Yeah, he's inmate one oh nine 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.120 dash ow three. Wow, you did your research because that 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.360 was not in the article. We could send him a 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:54.160 letter Morgantown Federal Correctional Institution. Yeah, he was. What was 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.400 he doing he was inside? Was an insider trading or 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.440 he created a pump and up scheme, some sort of 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.680 penny stock manipulation some scheme, is what I wrote. And 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.760 he's still in jail. Well it was two thousand nine 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.760 and I got a fifty one month sentence. Yeah, but 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.440 you know, sometimes it doesn't mean much like it served 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.959 time served, you're free. Yeah, you know, but yeah, he 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.839 he's still there though. He definitely made some cash doing 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.160 bulk email. It was clever at the time. It was 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.480 just annoying. Yeah, sure, but hey, we all got biagra 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.839 out of it, so we did. I didn't get in mine. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.040 Uh run okay. Yeah, So my nephew's middle name is Ronan, 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.720 and I'm still not convinced that my sister and her 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.480 husband know what Ronan is. I have a friend who 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.800 named his kid running. Does he know what Ronan is? 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.960 I'll have to ask him. He's a fan of the show. Well, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.200 what's what's his name? I don't think he spells it 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.040 this way though, I think he spells it with an A. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.719 What's his name, Braxton? Brexton? Do you know what a 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:56.400 Ronan is? Answer us? Let me text him. I don't. Yeah, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:57.800 I don't think he spells it the same way. Well, 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.400 let's tell everybody a Ronan is a masterless amurai. At 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.480 this point, I feel like, possibly, if you really want 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.680 to do some digging, press pause on this one or 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.000 just mark down your time code. Go back and listen 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.760 to our House Samurai Worked podcast. Excellent episode and it 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.839 will help you along with the rest of this. But 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:18.880 if you don't feel like doing that, go back and 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.040 listen to it anyway later on, but we'll give you 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.920 the crib sheet. Basically, a samurai is pledged to the 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:32.400 death to a single master right, and that involves the 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.680 samurai protecting the damno with his life. That involves the 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.520 samurai carrying out vengeance if the damnio is wronged or 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.240 murdered or anything like that. Um. And this is a 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.760 lifetime contract. This is a lifetime affiliation. Remember they were 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.280 the opposite ninja, which is also a really good episode. Two, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.240 they were just the hired guns. Yes, the ninja were. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.840 The samurai were very loyal military advisors, just cool guys. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.800 They had huge hammer pants too. Um And in this 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.200 particular case of the forties seven Ronan during the EtOH period, 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.520 which was the early beginning of the eighteenth century in Japan, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:14.000 um a man named Asano Nagai had uh some Ronan 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.600 assigned to him, or that he had taken on them. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.080 And Nagai was headed to Kyoto to hang out, which 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.760 was the capital at the time. And um, he saw 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.680 a man he didn't like. And still to this day, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.160 no one's quite sure. I was going to ask you 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.560 that no one knows, no one has any idea what 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.920 the problem is. But these guys have beef basically as 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.800 a Biggie Smalls would have put it. Did well, Yeah, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.720 Naganori pulled his sword out and slashed at the man. 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.199 Didn't cause any harm or whatever. But this is Kyoto 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.600 the seat of power in Japan and he's just taken 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.319 a swipe at some guy in front of everybody important 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.440 and in Japan this is a really big deal. Well, yeah, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.800 so much so that they I did that he should 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.080 commit seppuku, which we have covered before as well. Was 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.840 that a separate one? No, what was that in? Was 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.640 that in Samurai? Yeah? I think we really went into 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.199 graphic details. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we we talked about the 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.679 steps of sippuku because it's very specific. So again, go 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:20.360 listen to that episode. Um, and he did commit sippuku. Here, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.960 here's what I don't quite get. Why why didn't the 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:31.720 guy Yoshinaka, who he attacked, Why didn't his ronan come after? Well, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.240 he was dead. Why didn't his ronan come after he 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.640 wasn't dead? No, no, no, Naganori is now dead. So 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.880 why did his people feel the need to take revenge 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.400 when he's the one that started it? That is an 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.040 excellent question, and that's what led to the deaths of 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.560 these forty seven ronan Okay, so let's let's talk about 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.360 the story and then we'll go into that. Right, Okay, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.680 these ronan um basically hung out and waited two full years. 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.640 You know what they say, what revenge is the meal 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.280 best serve cold, very nice, one of my favorite things. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.079 Is it really one of my favorites? Oh yeah, I 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.120 just I just think it's witty. And you think a 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.480 lot about revenge, don't you know. I just like that 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.800 saying it's a good one. You know it's true with 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.040 you like two years later they don't know it's coming. Yeah, 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.120 And those Japanese winners get pretty cold, so it had 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.680 to two winners had passed by the time the seven 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.960 ronin decided to go pay a visit to the other guy. 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.880 And they went and, uh, your Yoshinaka was the other guy. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.440 They went to his house um stage an attack on 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:37.000 his compound, found him in an outhouse and said, hey, uh, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.680 we will give you the chance to commit suppuku. Here's 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.280 the same dagger that our master killed himself with the 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.640 right thing. And the guy just said there and stared 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.480 at him, and they gave him a beat and then 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.440 said okay, and they cut his head off, and they 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.600 took his head in a bucket and took it to 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.800 their master's grave. Well they cleaned it up, did they? 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.520 Apparently they watched it for some reason. I guess well, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.320 they're very tidy. They are very tighty people to um 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.640 and they took it to their master's grave and showed 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.480 him the head and said, here you go. And then 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.120 they took it to the Bukufu, the ruling council, and said, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:15.600 we're turning ourselves in. And maybe there's a lot of 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.960 discrepancy about what what was the right thing to do 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.360 or what wasn't even at the time and still today. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.600 But the Bukufu said, okay, go kill yourselves. You have to. 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.440 We were down to forty six here one supposedly was 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.360 killed in the attack. Whatever, but um forty six Ronan 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.080 committed suicide themselves. A lot of people die because this 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.400 guy slashed at the other guy. Now, there's many schools 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.320 of thought in this act of revenge. The Ronans should 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.600 have immediately gone to um Yoshinaka's house and killed him. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.480 That may have gotten them out of the sentence to 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.960 commit supuku another if they had been like, oh, well, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.680 let's carry out this vengeance right now. Another school thought 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.040 is that they shouldn't have done anything. That the Bakufu 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.200 had made a decision that their master had to kill himself, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.680 and they had to abide by it. That Samurai didn't 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.440 see it that way. Well, that was their code, though 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.440 it's not exactly the law of the land. No, it's true, um, 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.520 and that I think that connection between master and Samurai 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.440 supersedes anything that Pakfa came up with. But the last one, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.400 the hardest one for me swallow, but it's possibly correct, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:27.960 is that the ronin or should have, after they took 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.040 Yoshinaka's head, committed supuku themselves right there, and that it 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.040 was a grave act of cowardice to turn themselves in 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.520 because it showed that they possibly hoped for a slap 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.920 on the wrist interesting or at the very least the 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.600 cutting off of their wrists. Wow. Well, and there is 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.080 any style? Is what that is? You point out the 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.320 forty seventh thrown in Terra Saka Kichi man um There 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.040 are reports that he was young and pardoned because of 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.440 his age, and that he lived at the seven or 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.080 he died in the attack. Yeah, and I think there 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.200 would be more than forty seven, But there were forty 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.280 seven that assembled two years later and carried out revenge, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.080 I believe. And there have been countless stories and uh 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.600 movies and stuff about then running. Yeah, including the movie 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:20.879 running There you go some big revenge man. That was 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:25.119 a roller coaster ride. Should we cover the uh the 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.120 Huguenots to the massacre? That was pretty grim. I will 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.919 go over real quick. I like the last line of it, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.600 did you I went back and rewrit it. I was like, 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.239 that was a we'll we'll nugget there at the end, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.280 We'll save it. Uh. During the Protestant Reformation, there was 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.679 a lot of stuff going on in France, mainly a 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.280 lot to be lost, as in of the real estate 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.680 in France allegedly was owned by the clergy Catholic Church, 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.200 so they had a lot at steak. Yeah. When the 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.679 Protestants came a colin, they were like, I don't know 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.840 about you guys, we should kill you. Yeah. There was 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.439 a big, big problem between there's a big rift between 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.560 the Catholics and the Protestants, and it was largely overland power, 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.560 you know, because if it's all controlled by the Catholics, 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.199 it's hunky door for the Catholics. But then now, if 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.040 you have to divide everything in half, it's not it's 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:23.160 kind of a problem. Um. So by fift seventy two, UH, 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.040 in August in Paris, it was a hot one. And 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.520 there was a huge wedding between a French Protestant aristocrat 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.720 right now, a French Huguenot aristocrat and a French kill 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.119 okay Huguenot. Yeah, and they were not. This was not 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.080 a marriage that was endorsed by the papacy at all. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.159 Already really controversial. It was a huge, huge affair on 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.760 the social calendar. And so Paris was swarming with both 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.000 Huguenots and Catholics that were there at this wedding, possibly 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:01.240 the most awkward wedding of all time, sworn enemies in 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.120 the same church. Right the marriage goes off without a hitch, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.200 as far as I know. And um, almost immediately after, 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.480 Charles the Ninth, who was the King of France, a 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.280 devout Catholic, said, um, why don't we just take this 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.000 opportunity to kill the military leader of the Huguenots since 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.280 he's here in town. And they did, and let's not 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.439 stop there, let's just keep killing people. And over the 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.919 course of a week or so, I saw all kinds 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.600 of numbers. Sure well, they didn't keep very good records 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.520 in the fifteen seventies. No, but legend has it that 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.399 the rivers in Paris were so full of dead bodies 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.199 that they could not eat fish for months because of 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.840 disease of dead bodies. Thousands, tens of thousands of French 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:49.199 Protestants murdered a hundred thousands, and it started with the 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.480 one guy. Then that moved throughout Paris. Any Huguenot found 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.360 was killed, and then it spilled over into the countryside 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.240 where basically um the the French King Charles the ninth 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.080 carried out Jenna side against the Huguenots in France. So 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.880 that was a big deal. Sure what all right? Moving on, 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.960 we're skipping over I want to say Dave Carrol as 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.520 per Chuck's request. Yes, but you can read that in 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.560 the article. We're skipping Aaron Burr because you can hear 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.760 about him, or you may have just heard about him 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:25.080 in our dueling podcast. Good one, and uh let's go 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.000 to Dr Holly Crippen. Oh, we're doing him. You want 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.480 to skip him? No? No, that's fine, you take him though, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.360 Okause I I thought we agreed not to do him, Okay. Uh. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.040 Dr Holly Harvey Crippen was a homeopathic doctor in London, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.960 had a concert singer wife named Cora, and I guess 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.920 did you see his So he was mad because he's small, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.760 and apparently he didn't like his wife's voice because he 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.520 took up with another lady. She found out about it 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.240 and said, you know what, jerk, I'm out of here. 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.080 I'm the one that has the money taking it with me. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.960 And in after that she went missing. Of course, he says, hey, 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.959 I'm gonna take my mistress. I'm gonna move to UH. Well, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.080 I'm sorry he sold her jewelry first, he told everybody 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.960 that she was on a concert tour in Los Angeles, 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.680 died there and was very easy to figure out. Goodbye, Cora. 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.120 So he set sail for the US with his new mistress, 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.000 his new I don't know if they were married, probably 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.439 not his new wife, and um, the friends of the 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.560 wife started saying. Friends, of course started the same, Wait 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.080 a minute, this is pretty shady. Somebody should look into 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.159 this dude, because we think he has blood on his hands. 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.840 He was arrested when the body turned up in his 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.960 cellar and hanged. However, in two thousand seven, many many 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.040 years later, because nineteen ten, they found forensic evidence that 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:49.919 uh found out that not only was that not his 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.840 wife's body in the basement, who he was convicted of 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:57.040 in Yeah, but based on that evidence, perhaps a man, 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.800 not even a woman at all, so that they think 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:05.120 possibly Crippen may have murdered this other person and gotten 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.520 caught for that because his wife went missing and they 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.199 think they murdered her as well and just disposed of 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.280 her body. He did, he did. He supposedly acted alone 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.080 or or um he didn't kill this man, but he 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.600 did kill his wife and ended up getting hanged anyway 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.399 as an act of vengeance beyond the grave, right for 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.600 killing his wife. Or he didn't kill anybody and it 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:37.879 was hanging wrongly right, just vengeance twisted all up? What 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:42.560 that's wrong with you? Okay, let's see Lorena Bobbitt. This 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:44.840 is a good one because this is in our our 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:50.639 immediate memory, the nineties, the nineties, the crazy nineties, grunge, 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:57.440 flannel and dismembered penises flying out a car window. That's 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.359 exactly what happened. John Wayne Bobbitt was not a model husband. No. 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:03.680 And I really want to stress this because when I 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.919 was like, well, when I was thinking of this, LORRAINA. 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.399 Bobbitt was the first one that came to mind, and 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:11.080 then I did a little more research I was like, 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.400