Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know?
Speaker 1: From House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant
Speaker 1: that makes the stuff you should know. Jerry's in the
Speaker 1: other room. Yes, being quiet as commanded. Um, yeah, how
Speaker 1: you doing just I'm great. I feel like we haven't
Speaker 1: mentioned Jerry much in a while. So she's got a
Speaker 1: character playing She's a character on a TV pilot. There's
Speaker 1: an actress playing her. Right, probably you thought to have
Speaker 1: that removed right all over the place. I was like,
Speaker 1: we need less Jerry less Jerry not true, that's not true.
Speaker 1: So revenge. I'm a big revenge guy. Oh your huh, Well, no,
Speaker 1: that sounds is bad. I'm a big come up in
Speaker 1: skye in Justice, sky Sideline Reuters, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: when people get their come upance and justice is served.
Speaker 1: I'm very that's a very very satisfying experience for me. Well,
Speaker 1: a friend, you would have done well to have lived
Speaker 1: in Babylon around the seventeen sixties BC with the gardens.
Speaker 1: I love that stuff. Yeah, they were the pinking gardens
Speaker 1: that would have been all over it. Yeah, gardens figured
Speaker 1: heavily prominently in babylon Um, especially Chuck. I think you
Speaker 1: would have enjoyed living under King Hammurabi. Yeah. The code.
Speaker 1: He's the guy who came up with a code. We
Speaker 1: take it. You know that whole eye for an eye
Speaker 1: thing that you would stand on the sidelines, like take
Speaker 1: out his eye, take out his eye, the other guy's eye.
Speaker 1: I'm not like that because people are gonna think I'm
Speaker 1: some violent person. Come up and can come in many forms.
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking. Heart, Like Shank uh
Speaker 1: Brooks hung himself. No, come up, it's against the warden. Like,
Speaker 1: that's satisfying to me to see that in a movie.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what happened to the warden. Well, he
Speaker 1: ended up, boy, should not spoil it. I think it's fine.
Speaker 1: He ended up shooting himself as the cops descended upon him.
Speaker 1: What did he do wrong? He? What did he do wrong?
Speaker 1: He held Andy there for years, knowing he was innocent.
Speaker 1: He had the guy shot and killed who Andy had
Speaker 1: tutored to get his g e D. Who had information
Speaker 1: that would get his release from Like when the Melrose
Speaker 1: Place or something like that. He ally McBeal, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it was hallng mcbell. And then he uh uh
Speaker 1: squandered money from what do you call it when you pension?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, not squandered he uh he no, hele money
Speaker 1: essentially embezzled, embezzled money from the prison coffers. I it
Speaker 1: wasn't the warden played by Burr Lives or something. I thought.
Speaker 1: I remember him as like a grandfatherly type, very supporting,
Speaker 1: nurturing fellow. Now he's played by the guy that can't
Speaker 1: ever play anything again because of that movie. Weird. I
Speaker 1: have a list of revenge movies we can go over later. Okay,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, there's plenty of those. Remember there's a whole
Speaker 1: exploitation sub genre like I Spit on your Grave. That's
Speaker 1: on the list. Um. But anyway, back to the Code
Speaker 1: of Hammurabi. We take for for granted these days chuck
Speaker 1: the eye for an eye, but this is literally the
Speaker 1: beginning of that, and um, the beginning of systemic, uniform,
Speaker 1: uh socially sanctioned revenge. That's the justice system. It's revenge.
Speaker 1: It's like you did something and we're gonna get you
Speaker 1: back for that. You're going to be punished. It's revenge.
Speaker 1: That's the whole basis of the justice system. People can
Speaker 1: him and how about reform and stuff like that, but
Speaker 1: come on, it's revenge. It's punishments that I'm just saying, right,
Speaker 1: you can, you can dress it up all you want,
Speaker 1: you can do whatever you you you can to it.
Speaker 1: But when you boil it down, I think is what
Speaker 1: we're both saying. The whole basis of the justice system
Speaker 1: is revenge, and the Code of Hammurabi is the beginning
Speaker 1: of this, and that it's also the beginning of the
Speaker 1: eye for and eye think if I may, there's a
Speaker 1: couple like the Code of Hammurabi kind of deals with
Speaker 1: stuff that people were dealing with at the time, and
Speaker 1: it goes far beyond like if you kill somebody, you're killed.
Speaker 1: It gets kind of specific. One of my favorites is
Speaker 1: if a fire breakout in the house and someone who
Speaker 1: comes to put it out cast his eye upon the
Speaker 1: property of the owner of the house and take the
Speaker 1: property of the master of the house, he shall be
Speaker 1: thrown into that self same fire. So a louter essentially,
Speaker 1: you get thrown into the fire you came to help
Speaker 1: put out. And then basically strict your moral obligation by
Speaker 1: stealing instead of helping fight the fire. That's my favorite. Also,
Speaker 1: there's a lot about runaway slaves, harboring runaway slaves, stealing slaves.
Speaker 1: If you find a bull of slaves and you want
Speaker 1: to bring him back to the owner, um, the owner
Speaker 1: owes you two shekels of silver. Uh. It deals with
Speaker 1: inheritance law. If the son who inherits his father's land
Speaker 1: is still too young and can't take possession of his fields,
Speaker 1: a third of the field will go to the mother
Speaker 1: who basically is paid to raise him, although I think
Speaker 1: she's going to do that anyway. But it's a uniform coat,
Speaker 1: especially dealing with revenge. Right. I say all this to
Speaker 1: tell you that revenge is very old, Chuck. It is,
Speaker 1: and that's the code I mean. I bet took Took
Speaker 1: took revenge over you know, the caveman who wronged him. Yes,
Speaker 1: very primitive ways. I'm sure there was always revenge. And
Speaker 1: depending on how evolved took Took's brain was. If he
Speaker 1: had um dorsal stratium stri atom, why didn't I not
Speaker 1: get that the first time? If he had a dorsal striatom,
Speaker 1: which is governed in feelings of enjoyment and satisfaction. He
Speaker 1: would have probably liked carrying out that vengeance because that
Speaker 1: our pleasure center goes off when we um carry out
Speaker 1: acts of revenge, especially when we think of it. But
Speaker 1: that's why sometimes we will go to such great lengths
Speaker 1: to carry out vengeance because it feels good. See, I'm
Speaker 1: not a vengeance carry outer because I don't really get wronged,
Speaker 1: Like I've never had any huge, like wrongings against me.
Speaker 1: I would knock on wood at this point if I
Speaker 1: were you. But um, I like seeing it played out
Speaker 1: mainly in movies. You like standing on the sidelines and
Speaker 1: shouting for the person's eye to be taken out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's me. Do you want to talk about some cases
Speaker 1: of revenge? Because I mean, there's there's it's one thing
Speaker 1: to just say, hey, you know, that's great, that guy
Speaker 1: got his come up, and it's but there's some really
Speaker 1: legendary and some very grim cases of revenge in the
Speaker 1: history of humanity. And we have covered well, you cover
Speaker 1: ten in your article. Yeah, we're gonna cover what seven, eight, six, six,
Speaker 1: something like that. Like, we haven't done a top ten
Speaker 1: in a while. It's been a very long. Actually, we've
Speaker 1: never done a top ten because we only only cover
Speaker 1: six or seven. We haven't based one on the top ten.
Speaker 1: It's waiting, correct, Uh, I like the spam King one,
Speaker 1: should we start there? Might as well? He's number ten.
Speaker 1: Alan Rowski Uh was known as the spam King because
Speaker 1: he was an entrepreneur in Michigan who was one of
Speaker 1: the guys, the main dudes signing you up for all
Speaker 1: those spam emails that we all love before the dot
Speaker 1: com bubble even burst had him in court for bulk
Speaker 1: email spamming. But dude, he's got a rap sheet a
Speaker 1: mile long. I looked at his his like, since this
Speaker 1: is before the spam thing in the nineties, he had
Speaker 1: all sorts of like, yeah, yeah, he's he's just kind
Speaker 1: of a hustler kind of dude very much, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a good way to put it. But he got
Speaker 1: his come uppance in the way of a junk email
Speaker 1: of his own when his address was leaked online and
Speaker 1: then really leaked online. Well, the whole way it came
Speaker 1: out was there was a in I think the Detroit
Speaker 1: Free Press maybe one of the UM one of the
Speaker 1: local papers did a um a spotlight like just kind
Speaker 1: of a soft touch spotlight on his spacious, eight thousand
Speaker 1: square foot home that he paid seven because it was Detroit.
Speaker 1: This one was on you, man, I was just going
Speaker 1: to leave the Detroit alone, but go ahead, and yeah, so,
Speaker 1: uh so this guy is showing off his this man
Speaker 1: who's been referred to as quote vermin and quote scum,
Speaker 1: is showing off his eight thousand square foot house built
Speaker 1: on bulk email and spam. I bet he regrets that.
Speaker 1: And somehow I I couldn't go back and find out
Speaker 1: his address leaked like in the in the article, it
Speaker 1: basically gave away his physical address and that was it.
Speaker 1: The trolls got him. The trolls got him and signed
Speaker 1: him up for basically everything under the sun as far
Speaker 1: as junk mail, like physical junk mail goes, which we've done. Wow,
Speaker 1: we did podcast some junk mail. Remember that we didn't
Speaker 1: remember where rid of it. And that one guy was like, no,
Speaker 1: we're employed by junk mail. So at at the peak
Speaker 1: of his uh junk mail receivership, he was getting hundreds
Speaker 1: of pounds and he was every day. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: pretty upset. I mean I saw interviews with him today
Speaker 1: where he was like being harassed, and he was trying
Speaker 1: to get courts to do something and they were just like, now,
Speaker 1: come up, and I wish we had a trombone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we should spice us up a little, Jerry a trombone please.
Speaker 1: She's like, thank you? All right? Did we cover him? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: he's in jail now. Yeah, he's inmate one oh nine
Speaker 1: dash ow three. Wow, you did your research because that
Speaker 1: was not in the article. We could send him a
Speaker 1: letter Morgantown Federal Correctional Institution. Yeah, he was. What was
Speaker 1: he doing he was inside? Was an insider trading or
Speaker 1: he created a pump and up scheme, some sort of
Speaker 1: penny stock manipulation some scheme, is what I wrote. And
Speaker 1: he's still in jail. Well it was two thousand nine
Speaker 1: and I got a fifty one month sentence. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes it doesn't mean much like it served
Speaker 1: time served, you're free. Yeah, you know, but yeah, he
Speaker 1: he's still there though. He definitely made some cash doing
Speaker 1: bulk email. It was clever at the time. It was
Speaker 1: just annoying. Yeah, sure, but hey, we all got biagra
Speaker 1: out of it, so we did. I didn't get in mine.
Speaker 1: Uh run okay. Yeah, So my nephew's middle name is Ronan,
Speaker 1: and I'm still not convinced that my sister and her
Speaker 1: husband know what Ronan is. I have a friend who
Speaker 1: named his kid running. Does he know what Ronan is?
Speaker 1: I'll have to ask him. He's a fan of the show. Well,
Speaker 1: what's what's his name? I don't think he spells it
Speaker 1: this way though, I think he spells it with an A.
Speaker 1: What's his name, Braxton? Brexton? Do you know what a
Speaker 1: Ronan is? Answer us? Let me text him. I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think he spells it the same way. Well,
Speaker 1: let's tell everybody a Ronan is a masterless amurai. At
Speaker 1: this point, I feel like, possibly, if you really want
Speaker 1: to do some digging, press pause on this one or
Speaker 1: just mark down your time code. Go back and listen
Speaker 1: to our House Samurai Worked podcast. Excellent episode and it
Speaker 1: will help you along with the rest of this. But
Speaker 1: if you don't feel like doing that, go back and
Speaker 1: listen to it anyway later on, but we'll give you
Speaker 1: the crib sheet. Basically, a samurai is pledged to the
Speaker 1: death to a single master right, and that involves the
Speaker 1: samurai protecting the damno with his life. That involves the
Speaker 1: samurai carrying out vengeance if the damnio is wronged or
Speaker 1: murdered or anything like that. Um. And this is a
Speaker 1: lifetime contract. This is a lifetime affiliation. Remember they were
Speaker 1: the opposite ninja, which is also a really good episode. Two,
Speaker 1: they were just the hired guns. Yes, the ninja were.
Speaker 1: The samurai were very loyal military advisors, just cool guys.
Speaker 1: They had huge hammer pants too. Um And in this
Speaker 1: particular case of the forties seven Ronan during the EtOH period,
Speaker 1: which was the early beginning of the eighteenth century in Japan,
Speaker 1: um a man named Asano Nagai had uh some Ronan
Speaker 1: assigned to him, or that he had taken on them.
Speaker 1: And Nagai was headed to Kyoto to hang out, which
Speaker 1: was the capital at the time. And um, he saw
Speaker 1: a man he didn't like. And still to this day,
Speaker 1: no one's quite sure. I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: that no one knows, no one has any idea what
Speaker 1: the problem is. But these guys have beef basically as
Speaker 1: a Biggie Smalls would have put it. Did well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Naganori pulled his sword out and slashed at the man.
Speaker 1: Didn't cause any harm or whatever. But this is Kyoto
Speaker 1: the seat of power in Japan and he's just taken
Speaker 1: a swipe at some guy in front of everybody important
Speaker 1: and in Japan this is a really big deal. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: so much so that they I did that he should
Speaker 1: commit seppuku, which we have covered before as well. Was
Speaker 1: that a separate one? No, what was that in? Was
Speaker 1: that in Samurai? Yeah? I think we really went into
Speaker 1: graphic details. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we we talked about the
Speaker 1: steps of sippuku because it's very specific. So again, go
Speaker 1: listen to that episode. Um, and he did commit sippuku. Here,
Speaker 1: here's what I don't quite get. Why why didn't the
Speaker 1: guy Yoshinaka, who he attacked, Why didn't his ronan come after? Well,
Speaker 1: he was dead. Why didn't his ronan come after he
Speaker 1: wasn't dead? No, no, no, Naganori is now dead. So
Speaker 1: why did his people feel the need to take revenge
Speaker 1: when he's the one that started it? That is an
Speaker 1: excellent question, and that's what led to the deaths of
Speaker 1: these forty seven ronan Okay, so let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: the story and then we'll go into that. Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: these ronan um basically hung out and waited two full years.
Speaker 1: You know what they say, what revenge is the meal
Speaker 1: best serve cold, very nice, one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1: Is it really one of my favorites? Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I just think it's witty. And you think a
Speaker 1: lot about revenge, don't you know. I just like that
Speaker 1: saying it's a good one. You know it's true with
Speaker 1: you like two years later they don't know it's coming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And those Japanese winners get pretty cold, so it had
Speaker 1: to two winners had passed by the time the seven
Speaker 1: ronin decided to go pay a visit to the other guy.
Speaker 1: And they went and, uh, your Yoshinaka was the other guy.
Speaker 1: They went to his house um stage an attack on
Speaker 1: his compound, found him in an outhouse and said, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: we will give you the chance to commit suppuku. Here's
Speaker 1: the same dagger that our master killed himself with the
Speaker 1: right thing. And the guy just said there and stared
Speaker 1: at him, and they gave him a beat and then
Speaker 1: said okay, and they cut his head off, and they
Speaker 1: took his head in a bucket and took it to
Speaker 1: their master's grave. Well they cleaned it up, did they?
Speaker 1: Apparently they watched it for some reason. I guess well,
Speaker 1: they're very tidy. They are very tighty people to um
Speaker 1: and they took it to their master's grave and showed
Speaker 1: him the head and said, here you go. And then
Speaker 1: they took it to the Bukufu, the ruling council, and said,
Speaker 1: we're turning ourselves in. And maybe there's a lot of
Speaker 1: discrepancy about what what was the right thing to do
Speaker 1: or what wasn't even at the time and still today.
Speaker 1: But the Bukufu said, okay, go kill yourselves. You have to.
Speaker 1: We were down to forty six here one supposedly was
Speaker 1: killed in the attack. Whatever, but um forty six Ronan
Speaker 1: committed suicide themselves. A lot of people die because this
Speaker 1: guy slashed at the other guy. Now, there's many schools
Speaker 1: of thought in this act of revenge. The Ronans should
Speaker 1: have immediately gone to um Yoshinaka's house and killed him.
Speaker 1: That may have gotten them out of the sentence to
Speaker 1: commit supuku another if they had been like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: let's carry out this vengeance right now. Another school thought
Speaker 1: is that they shouldn't have done anything. That the Bakufu
Speaker 1: had made a decision that their master had to kill himself,
Speaker 1: and they had to abide by it. That Samurai didn't
Speaker 1: see it that way. Well, that was their code, though
Speaker 1: it's not exactly the law of the land. No, it's true, um,
Speaker 1: and that I think that connection between master and Samurai
Speaker 1: supersedes anything that Pakfa came up with. But the last one,
Speaker 1: the hardest one for me swallow, but it's possibly correct,
Speaker 1: is that the ronin or should have, after they took
Speaker 1: Yoshinaka's head, committed supuku themselves right there, and that it
Speaker 1: was a grave act of cowardice to turn themselves in
Speaker 1: because it showed that they possibly hoped for a slap
Speaker 1: on the wrist interesting or at the very least the
Speaker 1: cutting off of their wrists. Wow. Well, and there is
Speaker 1: any style? Is what that is? You point out the
Speaker 1: forty seventh thrown in Terra Saka Kichi man um There
Speaker 1: are reports that he was young and pardoned because of
Speaker 1: his age, and that he lived at the seven or
Speaker 1: he died in the attack. Yeah, and I think there
Speaker 1: would be more than forty seven, But there were forty
Speaker 1: seven that assembled two years later and carried out revenge,
Speaker 1: I believe. And there have been countless stories and uh
Speaker 1: movies and stuff about then running. Yeah, including the movie
Speaker 1: running There you go some big revenge man. That was
Speaker 1: a roller coaster ride. Should we cover the uh the
Speaker 1: Huguenots to the massacre? That was pretty grim. I will
Speaker 1: go over real quick. I like the last line of it,
Speaker 1: did you I went back and rewrit it. I was like,
Speaker 1: that was a we'll we'll nugget there at the end,
Speaker 1: We'll save it. Uh. During the Protestant Reformation, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on in France, mainly a
Speaker 1: lot to be lost, as in of the real estate
Speaker 1: in France allegedly was owned by the clergy Catholic Church,
Speaker 1: so they had a lot at steak. Yeah. When the
Speaker 1: Protestants came a colin, they were like, I don't know
Speaker 1: about you guys, we should kill you. Yeah. There was
Speaker 1: a big, big problem between there's a big rift between
Speaker 1: the Catholics and the Protestants, and it was largely overland power,
Speaker 1: you know, because if it's all controlled by the Catholics,
Speaker 1: it's hunky door for the Catholics. But then now, if
Speaker 1: you have to divide everything in half, it's not it's
Speaker 1: kind of a problem. Um. So by fift seventy two, UH,
Speaker 1: in August in Paris, it was a hot one. And
Speaker 1: there was a huge wedding between a French Protestant aristocrat
Speaker 1: right now, a French Huguenot aristocrat and a French kill
Speaker 1: okay Huguenot. Yeah, and they were not. This was not
Speaker 1: a marriage that was endorsed by the papacy at all.
Speaker 1: Already really controversial. It was a huge, huge affair on
Speaker 1: the social calendar. And so Paris was swarming with both
Speaker 1: Huguenots and Catholics that were there at this wedding, possibly
Speaker 1: the most awkward wedding of all time, sworn enemies in
Speaker 1: the same church. Right the marriage goes off without a hitch,
Speaker 1: as far as I know. And um, almost immediately after,
Speaker 1: Charles the Ninth, who was the King of France, a
Speaker 1: devout Catholic, said, um, why don't we just take this
Speaker 1: opportunity to kill the military leader of the Huguenots since
Speaker 1: he's here in town. And they did, and let's not
Speaker 1: stop there, let's just keep killing people. And over the
Speaker 1: course of a week or so, I saw all kinds
Speaker 1: of numbers. Sure well, they didn't keep very good records
Speaker 1: in the fifteen seventies. No, but legend has it that
Speaker 1: the rivers in Paris were so full of dead bodies
Speaker 1: that they could not eat fish for months because of
Speaker 1: disease of dead bodies. Thousands, tens of thousands of French
Speaker 1: Protestants murdered a hundred thousands, and it started with the
Speaker 1: one guy. Then that moved throughout Paris. Any Huguenot found
Speaker 1: was killed, and then it spilled over into the countryside
Speaker 1: where basically um the the French King Charles the ninth
Speaker 1: carried out Jenna side against the Huguenots in France. So
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. Sure what all right? Moving on,
Speaker 1: we're skipping over I want to say Dave Carrol as
Speaker 1: per Chuck's request. Yes, but you can read that in
Speaker 1: the article. We're skipping Aaron Burr because you can hear
Speaker 1: about him, or you may have just heard about him
Speaker 1: in our dueling podcast. Good one, and uh let's go
Speaker 1: to Dr Holly Crippen. Oh, we're doing him. You want
Speaker 1: to skip him? No? No, that's fine, you take him though,
Speaker 1: Okause I I thought we agreed not to do him, Okay. Uh.
Speaker 1: Dr Holly Harvey Crippen was a homeopathic doctor in London,
Speaker 1: had a concert singer wife named Cora, and I guess
Speaker 1: did you see his So he was mad because he's small,
Speaker 1: and apparently he didn't like his wife's voice because he
Speaker 1: took up with another lady. She found out about it
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, jerk, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm the one that has the money taking it with me.
Speaker 1: And in after that she went missing. Of course, he says, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take my mistress. I'm gonna move to UH. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry he sold her jewelry first, he told everybody
Speaker 1: that she was on a concert tour in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: died there and was very easy to figure out. Goodbye, Cora.
Speaker 1: So he set sail for the US with his new mistress,
Speaker 1: his new I don't know if they were married, probably
Speaker 1: not his new wife, and um, the friends of the
Speaker 1: wife started saying. Friends, of course started the same, Wait
Speaker 1: a minute, this is pretty shady. Somebody should look into
Speaker 1: this dude, because we think he has blood on his hands.
Speaker 1: He was arrested when the body turned up in his
Speaker 1: cellar and hanged. However, in two thousand seven, many many
Speaker 1: years later, because nineteen ten, they found forensic evidence that
Speaker 1: uh found out that not only was that not his
Speaker 1: wife's body in the basement, who he was convicted of
Speaker 1: in Yeah, but based on that evidence, perhaps a man,
Speaker 1: not even a woman at all, so that they think
Speaker 1: possibly Crippen may have murdered this other person and gotten
Speaker 1: caught for that because his wife went missing and they
Speaker 1: think they murdered her as well and just disposed of
Speaker 1: her body. He did, he did. He supposedly acted alone
Speaker 1: or or um he didn't kill this man, but he
Speaker 1: did kill his wife and ended up getting hanged anyway
Speaker 1: as an act of vengeance beyond the grave, right for
Speaker 1: killing his wife. Or he didn't kill anybody and it
Speaker 1: was hanging wrongly right, just vengeance twisted all up? What
Speaker 1: that's wrong with you? Okay, let's see Lorena Bobbitt. This
Speaker 1: is a good one because this is in our our
Speaker 1: immediate memory, the nineties, the nineties, the crazy nineties, grunge,
Speaker 1: flannel and dismembered penises flying out a car window. That's
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. John Wayne Bobbitt was not a model husband. No.
Speaker 1: And I really want to stress this because when I
Speaker 1: was like, well, when I was thinking of this, LORRAINA.
Speaker 1: Bobbitt was the first one that came to mind, and
Speaker 1: then I did a little more research I was like,
Speaker 1: good God, she had a really rough life. Um. She
Speaker 1: was allegedly the victim of a lot of spousal abuse,
Speaker 1: physical abuse, mental abuse. UM. She was an immigrant and
Speaker 1: her husband supposedly used that against her to manipulator to
Speaker 1: keep control of her. Didn't speak great English at the time. Um.
Speaker 1: And there was allegedly a lot of marital rape in
Speaker 1: that marriage as well, UM, including the night of UM well,
Speaker 1: I don't know when it was, but it was when
Speaker 1: supposedly Mrs Bobbitt said that her husband, John Wayne Bobbitt,
Speaker 1: came home drunk, assaulted her, and then raped her and
Speaker 1: then passed out. Apparently this was one in a long
Speaker 1: string of these um encounters, and she had had enough,
Speaker 1: so she got a knife and while he was asleeping,
Speaker 1: Chuck cut off more than half of his penis a
Speaker 1: significant portion, more than half. And although if you ask me,
Speaker 1: five percent would be a significant portion. Five percent. It's
Speaker 1: like a zipper accident. Yeah, but just nothing needs to
Speaker 1: be going on down there. No, I agree, I'm saying
Speaker 1: in general, I mean, I'm not saying he did or
Speaker 1: didn't deserve it. I'm not weighing in on that. No,
Speaker 1: I see your point. He was a big jerk. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying people should do this, of course. No. I
Speaker 1: feel like we should stay out of this little pool
Speaker 1: right here, because if you do do the research and
Speaker 1: you do start to kind of see where she was
Speaker 1: coming from. She was the butt of many a late
Speaker 1: night joke for years and years. She just became a punchline.
Speaker 1: But if you look into her story, it was horrific. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very sad um. Anyway, about three am, she takes this
Speaker 1: dismembered member and drives out into the night with it.
Speaker 1: At some point, rolls down a window in the passenger
Speaker 1: side and just throws it out into the grass, and
Speaker 1: by some incredible luck, a suf's deputy managed to find it. Well,
Speaker 1: I remember a lot of people looking exactly like there
Speaker 1: was a missing child or something like that. There was
Speaker 1: a multi tens of thousands of dollar search party out
Speaker 1: looking for a dismembered penis in the grass, and they
Speaker 1: found it. That's the craziest part to me, right, It's
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. And they reattached it, put it on ice,
Speaker 1: reattached it. She says she didn't remember it. She said
Speaker 1: she was Later on, she said she was driving with
Speaker 1: the member in one hand and a knife in the other.
Speaker 1: And she said she went to turn the wheel and
Speaker 1: realized she needed a free hand and that's why she
Speaker 1: does it. Yeah. Um, she she went to court, She
Speaker 1: went to trial, and I can't remember what her charge was.
Speaker 1: It was one of those very clever like old timey
Speaker 1: eighteenth century charges. You shall be charged with penis cutting.
Speaker 1: I think that was a charge. She was found not
Speaker 1: guilty for reasons of temporary insanity. Uh, she snapped after
Speaker 1: years of abuse, and they said, you're fine. He was
Speaker 1: acquitted for assault charges on her, but he went on
Speaker 1: to be convicted later on for more domestic abuse on
Speaker 1: another wife and in the so they divorced. In here's
Speaker 1: the crazy thing. In he was in a pornographic film
Speaker 1: called Uncut. Yeah, he was in more than one. And
Speaker 1: oh was he I just knew about the one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was in one called Frank and Penis. Okay, I
Speaker 1: thought Uncut was the one. I thought Frank and Penis
Speaker 1: was the name of Frank and something. I remember that. Well,
Speaker 1: there's one called Uncut um that came out in and
Speaker 1: Vince Neil and Lemm theres a bum and Vince Neil
Speaker 1: plays himself. Yeah, he was also in a band called
Speaker 1: The Severed Parts. Yeah, so he was clearly trying to
Speaker 1: make some money off of this incident, which goes on
Speaker 1: to show even more about his character. Lorreina bob It
Speaker 1: went in a different direction and founded a women's abuse
Speaker 1: uh nonprofit called Lorraino's Red Wagon, which is an aid organization. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's a little girl now she's uh, I don't
Speaker 1: know if she's remarried, but with the father and has
Speaker 1: a little girl. And she was actually brought to court
Speaker 1: for attacking her mother after this too. Yeah, she was
Speaker 1: let go for that as well. I didn't run into
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah. Man, nothing's ever black and white, is it. No,
Speaker 1: it's all great, Josh, it's all great. The next one's
Speaker 1: fairly close to black and white as far as revenge
Speaker 1: goes chuck, Yeah, this one is pretty good. Come up,
Speaker 1: it's let's let's hear. Anthony Stockelman in two thousand and
Speaker 1: six was put in prison for molesting and murdering a
Speaker 1: ten year old girl named Katie Coleman. Horrific, horrific incident.
Speaker 1: His come upance came right away in the case of
Speaker 1: your going to jail for life, and it wasn't like
Speaker 1: there was a lot of did he didn't he do it?
Speaker 1: Apparently it was a slam dunk case. There were um
Speaker 1: red carpet fibers that matched the carpet in his mom's
Speaker 1: house found at the scene. His DNA was on the
Speaker 1: body and on a cigarette. But at the scene and
Speaker 1: and I witness saw Katie Coleman riding and Anthony Stockleman's
Speaker 1: pickup truck that day. So he copt the deal to
Speaker 1: avoid the death penalty and went to prisons of his life,
Speaker 1: went to prison, uh and unfortunately he went to prison
Speaker 1: with Jared Harris, who was a burglary UH inmate serving
Speaker 1: time for burglary and also Katie Coleman's cousin. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: they had a different last name. Indiana Board of Corrections
Speaker 1: missed that this was Katie Coleman's cousin because they would
Speaker 1: have did they look to avoid I don't know the
Speaker 1: rules with think they'd be protocol for that kind of thing. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: After a couple of months, Stockelman shows up one day
Speaker 1: for breakfast with a fresh tattoo carved into his head
Speaker 1: that says Katie's revenge and very very big prominent block
Speaker 1: letters like his entire forehead is covered in this amateur tattoo.
Speaker 1: Did you see it? Yeah? That the I think one
Speaker 1: of the guards ended up posting that and was got
Speaker 1: in trouble posted the photo, so the Board of Corrections
Speaker 1: looked into it said, oh, we can't implicate the cousins,
Speaker 1: so who knows who did it? And that was that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well no, he actually um served extra time for assault.
Speaker 1: Oh they got him. When I wrote this, they still hadn't.
Speaker 1: They were like, we can't, we can't find any evidence
Speaker 1: that it was him. They got him. I'm sure he
Speaker 1: was like fine attacking one. He was gonna kill him.
Speaker 1: He you know, did one of those deals where the
Speaker 1: dude looks up and all of a sudden, this guy's
Speaker 1: in his cell with the door closed behind him, and
Speaker 1: put his hands on his throat and said him, either're
Speaker 1: gonna stick you or I'm gonna tattoo your forehead and
Speaker 1: he was like dotto. I don't know if he actually
Speaker 1: gave him the choice, but he Yeah, he had a
Speaker 1: you know, a prison tattoo gun that he ditched in
Speaker 1: the trash and I can find pictures of it online.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the follow up stuff, man, that's awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: not awesome for Jared Harris, not the actor Jared Harris,
Speaker 1: by the way, son of Richard Harris Anthony Stockman. No, no no, no,
Speaker 1: I mean Jared Harris is the cousin. Oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: he's not the famous actor son of Jared her or
Speaker 1: Richard Harris, Jared Leedo. No, okay, we're up to our
Speaker 1: last one. This is all we're doing. This is number six,
Speaker 1: I think, right, Yeah, which one of these one? What
Speaker 1: do you have? I got dach how and what's the
Speaker 1: other one? James Annesley? Let's okay? Am I saying it correctly? Uh?
Speaker 1: Sure you say it. I'll see if I'm saying it well,
Speaker 1: people just say dach owright. Yeah, you were sort of
Speaker 1: overdoing it a little bit. Uh. This is one that
Speaker 1: you know, Quentin Tarantino probably got some inspiration for his
Speaker 1: movie and Glorious Bastards, and it was in Shutter Island prominently.
Speaker 1: You know Tarantino's doing a slave revenge movie next. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, and Escaped Slave. And in fact,
Speaker 1: you could argue that most of his movies are revenge movies.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, like almost all of them revenge except well
Speaker 1: executing Tim Ross and the cops scene. Oh yeah, with
Speaker 1: the ear but that wasn't really revenge. Kill Bill, total
Speaker 1: revenge movie. That the car Win was revenge, Glorious Bastard's
Speaker 1: was revenge. And now the slave Runaway. Was there any
Speaker 1: revenge in there? There was more redemption than revenge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, well, oh revenge against the rapists. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that was big time. I'm going to call in some
Speaker 1: HiPE pitting uh torches. Yeah, so there's been elements of
Speaker 1: revengelict at LEAs say that. Okay, okay, So back to
Speaker 1: World War two. Did you know that Quentin Tarantino and
Speaker 1: Alan Ball, the writer of Six Ft Under, have an
Speaker 1: ongoing feud that Tarantino has brought the law into. Apparently
Speaker 1: Alan Ball and his husband or a partner one of
Speaker 1: the two um raise like tropical birds in their Los
Speaker 1: Angeles home. Sounds nice, and they have an aviary and
Speaker 1: apparently it's not fully enclosed, and Quentin Tarantino, who lives
Speaker 1: next door, has to hear birds squawking all day and
Speaker 1: can't get any work telling really, so he's like gone
Speaker 1: to court to basically get the courts to tell Alan
Speaker 1: Ball that tells birds to shut up interesting it And
Speaker 1: well I know where that is then, because I used
Speaker 1: to work for a director that supposedly lived a few
Speaker 1: houses down from qt because when I went and picked
Speaker 1: him up, he was like, you know, lu lous right there,
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino, and I guess Alan Ball on the other side,
Speaker 1: who do you side with? I'm a big fan of both.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love Alan Ball and Tarantino. I'm not
Speaker 1: I don't think should keep birds in captivity, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with Tarantino in this, all right. So now
Speaker 1: back to World War two finally, all right. Dachau obviously
Speaker 1: was one of the sites of the atrocities committed against
Speaker 1: the Jewish people at their prison camp. There, awful, awful
Speaker 1: things happened, and when the American soldiers of the Thunderbird
Speaker 1: Army Infantry Division showed up to take that camp, they
Speaker 1: exacted a little revenge. Well, one of the they had
Speaker 1: a huge impetus there was what was called the death car,
Speaker 1: the death train, which is thirty nine rail cars that
Speaker 1: were on a rail line that were parked basically just
Speaker 1: inside the camp walls, and they were literally overflowing with
Speaker 1: the dead and dying. I think, um almost three thousand
Speaker 1: corpses spilling out of these rail cars, and that's what
Speaker 1: these guys came upon. The The members of the Thunderbird
Speaker 1: Army Infantry, the four fifth Thunderbird Division UM found this
Speaker 1: and apparently just snapped. And what's the worst army infantry
Speaker 1: atrocity carried out by any Allied force supposedly in World
Speaker 1: War Two? And this is pretty atrocious. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: they basically there were There are different reports on what
Speaker 1: went on. I tried to look at a bunch of
Speaker 1: different ones, but we do know that they at one
Speaker 1: point lined some SS up against the wall, modem down
Speaker 1: with machine guns so unarmed. By the way, and this
Speaker 1: is also Duck Cow is the site where a lot
Speaker 1: of S. S officers came to UM came to surrender.
Speaker 1: They weren't even in the camp. This is like, oh,
Speaker 1: the Americans took this camp. I want to surrender. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go surrender. And they were executed. And apparently one
Speaker 1: report says that some of the U. S. Soldiers gave
Speaker 1: some of the freed inmates guns and like shovels and
Speaker 1: things and said, have at it, fellas, and they exacted
Speaker 1: their own revenge. Some of the Jewish inmates. Then when
Speaker 1: I have a fewer problems with yeah, of course. Um,
Speaker 1: but apparently General Georgia's Patton had no problem with any
Speaker 1: of it. They formed the some of the people there,
Speaker 1: some of the army guys, the U. S. Army guys
Speaker 1: would probably say the lions share. I had a problem
Speaker 1: with what was going on and complained, filed report and
Speaker 1: there was a classified army investigation um that said, yeah,
Speaker 1: this happened, and there were about unarmed Germans that were
Speaker 1: executed at Dakau that day, and um, you know, he
Speaker 1: was all the evidence, patting through the stuff in the
Speaker 1: trash and said, you guys go home, forget this ever happened.
Speaker 1: But one one copy was put in the National Archives.
Speaker 1: It was mislabeled, and it sat there until and no
Speaker 1: one had any clue about it until the Boston Globe
Speaker 1: did like this four or five part series on the
Speaker 1: doc Cow massacre in two dozen one, and that finally
Speaker 1: brought it to light. Wow. So that's uh number two.
Speaker 1: While they weren't labeled in order of importance, they were
Speaker 1: just ten right, it even says, in no particular order,
Speaker 1: because it's kind of sick to say, like this is
Speaker 1: the best or this is the worst. In case it's
Speaker 1: like this. Um. I did go to Film School Rejects so,
Speaker 1: which is a fun website because I just started thinking
Speaker 1: about revenge movies. It's a common theme. And they listed
Speaker 1: this is their top ten. Commando, Oh yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good one. Gladiator yeah. Uh Friday and Jerry Lapkinson but
Speaker 1: said me, Friday, well, those kids watched her son drown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh that's true. Been her one of the granddaddys of
Speaker 1: all revenge movies. Good one. I am being her, I
Speaker 1: am her, I am her. Like Fall Dogs. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: one Star Dougs is crazy. We were just talking about
Speaker 1: the other day. It was disturbing. Kill Bill one and two,
Speaker 1: Once upon a Time in the West. I never saw
Speaker 1: that one either, it's supposed to be awesome. That's a
Speaker 1: good one. The Virgin Spring, which I have not seen.
Speaker 1: That was a Bergman picture, and The Godfather, which I
Speaker 1: didn't really see that as a revenge. Pick revenge and
Speaker 1: they said Death Wish is the number one. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they didn't have Old Boy on there. Oh yeah, the
Speaker 1: Ultimate revenge movie. That's as revenge as it k. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then I told some other top ten lists and
Speaker 1: some of the other other ones that made the list Memento,
Speaker 1: mad Max, Carrie, great revenge movie, and Glorious Pastard's obviously
Speaker 1: the professional the crow hard Candy, but you should see
Speaker 1: to be confused with Jawbreaker, I'll bet have you ever
Speaker 1: seen that movie? Now? I didn't see that. It was good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I spit on your grave Era of Persctable. That one
Speaker 1: was pretty hardcore. You may likes that movie. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it yet. Your Reversal, yes, he said it's really good.
Speaker 1: It's really tough to watch. But that was a good movie.
Speaker 1: It is. Well, it's a rape revenge, so those are
Speaker 1: those are always the best. What about the last House
Speaker 1: on the left that's a rape Prevet's like the rape
Speaker 1: prevenge that was next on my list? Or was that
Speaker 1: before after I spent on your grave? When was I
Speaker 1: spin on your graves? That have the date? No? When
Speaker 1: I have the dates? Because the last house on the left,
Speaker 1: I think two? Munich? Oh yeah, I spent on your
Speaker 1: graves one was it? Yeah, Munich. That's a great revenge
Speaker 1: movie star Trek to Wrath of con No. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: Unforgiven pretty good one. I mean, great movie. But I
Speaker 1: wouldn't throw it in the super revenge category and then
Speaker 1: taken with the Liam Neeson. I enjoyed that. I did too.
Speaker 1: I just can't get pest Liam Neeson as an action star.
Speaker 1: You know, he has a set of very specific set
Speaker 1: of skills and they make it unwatchable. All right, So
Speaker 1: that is revenge and it's best served what with Liam
Speaker 1: Neeson piping hot? Uh? Yeah, this was That was like
Speaker 1: six of ten. So there's more for you to go read.
Speaker 1: It's right how stuff works dot com. Um in the
Speaker 1: article I wrote, just type in biggest revenge or even
Speaker 1: probably just revenge in the search part how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot Com, and that's gonna bring up this article. So
Speaker 1: do that and I said search bar, which means the
Speaker 1: type of listener mail or is it? It's not quite yet, chuck. Uh.
Speaker 1: We should tell everybody about CIVA. Man. We did it.
Speaker 1: We did what. We We met our goal in the
Speaker 1: million dollar March. Yes, one million dollars in loans over
Speaker 1: the past million years is gonna be October less than three.
Speaker 1: And it all started with the well jabb at Colbert
Speaker 1: Nation and they're just like that. They we left them
Speaker 1: in the dust years ago. I know when you watch
Speaker 1: that video it's so quaint. We're like first one to
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars. No, I remember everybody was like,
Speaker 1: I just know where you're gonna make it two? A
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. Crazy, that's a million, dude, million dollars
Speaker 1: loaned by our Kiva team. It takes a village town
Speaker 1: and we are proud of you guys. Thank you, yeah seriously,
Speaker 1: and uh, I guess let's just keep going on. Let's
Speaker 1: double down. Yeah, thank you to Glenn and Sonia as
Speaker 1: always for helping us set our financial goals. And we'll
Speaker 1: have a new one coming up soon. Yeah, we're not quitting.
Speaker 1: We're not like we got a million forget it, We're done.
Speaker 1: We're going to bed. Everyone pulled their money outr go party. No,
Speaker 1: don't do that. Okay, Um, that's that's for December. Okay, alright, well,
Speaker 1: so back to it, all right, Josh, I'm gonna call this,
Speaker 1: uh cannibalism. It's been a while, but it's about cannibalism.
Speaker 1: And I like to read good smart ones and this
Speaker 1: is one of those guys on a biology undergrad at
Speaker 1: University of New Mexico. Go jeeze, what do they go fighting?
Speaker 1: As texts. Let's say, I bet you bet, you're right.
Speaker 1: One of my recent projects was a computer model attempting
Speaker 1: to answer some questions regarding disease transmission through cannibalism. You
Speaker 1: close the podcast with speculation about the origin of cannibalism
Speaker 1: and humans. Materialism versus idealism. Uh. Though both of these
Speaker 1: arguments are compelling, they both seem to ignore just how
Speaker 1: young the human species is. The prevalence of con specific
Speaker 1: neck rog neck rog big necro necrofi let's say necrofogy
Speaker 1: it sounds a kid, Yeah, man, I had that all
Speaker 1: worked out there. Eating the dead and other species provides
Speaker 1: evidence that cannibalism is significantly older than uts, and the
Speaker 1: prevalence in near species like chimps suggests that it may
Speaker 1: be a trait we've had since we have been a week.
Speaker 1: Lobsters are big cannibals spiders of the sea. The materialism
Speaker 1: versus idealism argument it takes on all new facets when
Speaker 1: applied to chimps. Materialism materialism doesn't hold very much water,
Speaker 1: as chimps are pretty well fed on fruits and catching
Speaker 1: smaller simians is far easier and arguably adequate nutrition. Idealism
Speaker 1: begs the question of just how much chimps care about
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Are they expecting some gain other
Speaker 1: than nutritional value, like spiritual or even just striking fear
Speaker 1: to the hearts of enemies? Are they even capable of this?
Speaker 1: My guess, which is just a guess, is that they
Speaker 1: kill for territorial reasons and then simply don't want to
Speaker 1: waste the large quantity of delicious dude. Mhm. So that
Speaker 1: sweet thinks maybe we started that way in some cultures
Speaker 1: to sell onto the practice applying spiritual reasoning after the fact.
Speaker 1: And that is smart, and that is from Mica makes Mica.
Speaker 1: That is smart from New Mexico. And if you why
Speaker 1: is new it was New Mexico State Golden Gophers. Now
Speaker 1: that's Minnesota, the bear Cats, the New Mexico State Bearcats Eagles.
Speaker 1: Holds no, that's our our school, Georgia. UM. If you
Speaker 1: had your interest piqued by Micah's assessment of cannibalism, you
Speaker 1: might want to go listen to our cannibalism podcast. We
Speaker 1: did an episode on it a while back and it's
Speaker 1: one of our favorites. Pretty good. Um, and let's see
Speaker 1: what else. If you have a great revenge story we
Speaker 1: want to hear it. Yeah, there's lots of internet revenge
Speaker 1: going on. I was gonna talk about some of it,
Speaker 1: like the people who post anonymous and all that, but um, oh,
Speaker 1: I know it's you mean. I don't like that, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: my boyfriend wronged me, so let me do photoshops of
Speaker 1: him and a bikini and make it a meme. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Okay, So I guess we're gonna avoid that
Speaker 1: everybody because we don't want to upset Chuck because we
Speaker 1: know he'll lie in wait for come up. It's um.
Speaker 1: You can send us a cool story of revenge non internet.
Speaker 1: Please to us at Twitter. Our handle is s y
Speaker 1: s K podcast UM, or on Facebook at Facebook dot
Speaker 1: com slash stuff you Should Know, and you can send
Speaker 1: us a plain old fashion email to Stuff Podcast at
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com. Be sure to check out our new
Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join How Stuff Work
Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities
Speaker 1: of tomorrow, brought to you by the reinvented two thousand
Speaker 1: twelve camera. It's ready, are you