Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black tech, Green money.
Speaker 1: Cc Kurrisman is a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member.
Speaker 1: As a former music executive and talent manager, she's guided
Speaker 1: the careers, business strategies, and brand development of many of
Speaker 1: the biggest artists on the planet. As a board member,
Speaker 1: she either currently or has out on the boards of
Speaker 1: directors for Revline, Circus, Dates, so Let, Warner Music Group,
Speaker 1: Line Vine Grew, United Talent Agency, and more. Currently, she
Speaker 1: leads Nexus Management Grew, a private investment company dedicated to innovative,
Speaker 1: growth stage businesses in the consumer media and technology sectors.
Speaker 1: Traditional media is still being disrupted daily by innovation that
Speaker 1: provides a platform to social media commentators and creators, but
Speaker 1: many new media companies have a hard time figuring it
Speaker 1: out also, and there are many stories of late were
Speaker 1: well funded platforms either no longer exists or are today
Speaker 1: not getting after it, not meeting it full potential. It
Speaker 1: was all good just a week ago. As someone who's
Speaker 1: an investor in growing media platforms, I sec to paint
Speaker 1: a picture of what the landscape currently looks like.
Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, I think some of the really
Speaker 2: the downfall of some of the larger new digital media businesses.
Speaker 2: I think really speaks to the venture model, which is
Speaker 2: quite broken, and I think we're starting to see where
Speaker 2: the cracks and the pavement are by watching not just
Speaker 2: these media businesses, but some of the other tech businesses
Speaker 2: and other businesses that I think are now suffering because
Speaker 2: of the valuations and the enterprise values that were so
Speaker 2: frovy in the last ten years and didn't really reflect
Speaker 2: the strength and the solid nature of the business. And
Speaker 2: by that, I mean, you know, now everybody's talking about it,
Speaker 2: but we knew. We knew it was happening when it
Speaker 2: was happening, right, We knew valuations were not you know,
Speaker 2: we had companies that were based on valuations with no profitability.
Speaker 2: We had companies that continue to raise large sums of
Speaker 2: capital based on paper valuations, not based on you know,
Speaker 2: an actual business model and the health and structure of
Speaker 2: the business. So it's not I would say, a surprise
Speaker 2: that we're seeing a lot of these media companies go away.
Speaker 2: They're sort of suffering from their own perceived success because
Speaker 2: they did raise a lot of money, and they raised
Speaker 2: a lot of money against the expectations of some really
Speaker 2: really massive valuations. And it's not to say that these
Speaker 2: aren't great companies with great prospects, but unfortunately they were
Speaker 2: burdened by their own success and expectations that were set
Speaker 2: for them and buy them.
Speaker 1: Really, So, what's happening from the venture side that allows
Speaker 1: that to happen. Is it just so much money in
Speaker 1: the system that they've got to deploy it somewhere or
Speaker 1: is it very charismatic founders? What's happening?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. Right, Media
Speaker 2: and tech are both sort of suffering in the same
Speaker 2: you know, in the same downturn, and the irony isn't
Speaker 2: it isn't really about the businesses. The businesses in many
Speaker 2: cases are still thriving, right, They're still growing, perhaps not
Speaker 2: at the pace that they did out of the gate,
Speaker 2: or at the pace that was expected based on their valuation.
Speaker 2: So you know, they are good businesses, good teams, good
Speaker 2: underlying business model, but the expectations are out here, right,
Speaker 2: and I think what you're seeing now is really a
Speaker 2: correction to where it should be. But of course anybody
Speaker 2: who invested at the high valuation sees this as you know,
Speaker 2: the end of days, because the valuations are now coming
Speaker 2: down to a place where probably they should have been. Anyway,
Speaker 2: these companies probably shouldn't have raised so much money. Money
Speaker 2: will cover up a lot of mistakes, and sometimes you
Speaker 2: actually need to see and live your mistakes and own
Speaker 2: your mistakes and set backs to be able to continue
Speaker 2: to build a business in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: So, from an investment perspective, what does innovation look like
Speaker 1: these days in media? Because I brought up there's so
Speaker 1: many people doing this independently, and you also have a
Speaker 1: lot of social media commentators on these things. So what
Speaker 1: does innovation look.
Speaker 2: In any No matter how you slice it, media is expensive.
Speaker 2: To build a media business from scratch is expensive. I
Speaker 2: think you had a lot of companies really diversifying too
Speaker 2: quickly across too many formats to be able to chase
Speaker 2: scale and valuation. If you look at actually some of
Speaker 2: the success stor and media, look at some of the
Speaker 2: incumbents who have actually pivoted in an interesting way. New
Speaker 2: York Times just launched their app. New York Times is
Speaker 2: doing very well. This is this is a you know,
Speaker 2: age old the old gray ladies they call her age
Speaker 2: old media business that has gone from being an incumbent
Speaker 2: and a legacy business and really pivoted in a very
Speaker 2: very strategic way into the modern you know, into the
Speaker 2: modern era. But this is a company that's been built
Speaker 2: over one hundred years, step by step by step. It
Speaker 2: had foundation, it had real brand awareness, it had real following,
Speaker 2: it had real authority in its space. So they had
Speaker 2: all those foundational elements that were built over the years
Speaker 2: to enable them to then innovate. A lot of the
Speaker 2: newer companies really just you know, built really quickly, and
Speaker 2: audiences were fickle, and it was really hard to sustain
Speaker 2: and maintain a solid, you know, solid foundations as they
Speaker 2: needed to scale their audience. And then once the you know,
Speaker 2: once the kind of curtain gets pulled back a little bit,
Speaker 2: they're in real trouble very very quickly.
Speaker 1: And so I think about being a social media being
Speaker 1: on social media, very active on social media. It's very
Speaker 1: difficult for people like media and across I guess the
Speaker 1: many different demographics to leave social media, to go to
Speaker 1: another link, another location on the Internet. And so I
Speaker 1: wonder what your thoughts are on Let's say I go,
Speaker 1: I'm going to the New York Times, and then I
Speaker 1: got a paywall, and you know, maybe I'm not a subscriber,
Speaker 1: so and but you're talking about their growing So how
Speaker 1: are these things happening when a number one social media
Speaker 1: platforms don't want you to leave, so they made suppress
Speaker 1: those links out And then when you get to the
Speaker 1: place now I can only read the first line of
Speaker 1: a story.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's an age old market strategy. Right.
Speaker 2: They have to have content that's compelling enough that you're
Speaker 2: going to wanna that you're going to want to get
Speaker 2: behind the paywall. I think they have subscribers because their
Speaker 2: brand is mean something, right, It's like how many streaming
Speaker 2: services are you going to sign up for? Most people
Speaker 2: have Netflix, maybe one or two others, But how do
Speaker 2: you become somebody needs to come over there and do
Speaker 2: and do like you know.
Speaker 1: An auditious seriously right?
Speaker 2: But Netflix became what I call utility, right, something that
Speaker 2: you just you pay like you play pay the electric bill.
Speaker 2: It's not something you turn off whether you're reading, whether
Speaker 2: you're watching a show that's that's original to Netflix or
Speaker 2: exclusive to Netflix or not. That is what every media
Speaker 2: outlet aspires to, where the content is such that it
Speaker 2: becomes your utility, something that you're not going to live without.
Speaker 2: And I actually think a lot of social media personalities
Speaker 2: have been able to build their own followings and being
Speaker 2: able to monetize their own followings to many at the
Speaker 2: expense of a lot of these you know, larger digital
Speaker 2: media outlets. The idea is their monetization strategy is different.
Speaker 2: They're able to use other platforms and other platforms advertisers
Speaker 2: to help monetize and pay some of these social media
Speaker 2: pundits and personalities. That's what I love about the business.
Speaker 2: I mean, the New York Times is a great example
Speaker 2: of an existing media company, big media company that continues
Speaker 2: to innovate and nurture what already existed in terms of
Speaker 2: a following and hopefully build a few you know, new followers,
Speaker 2: but they had it. What I love and what I
Speaker 2: think the future of media is is these individuals who
Speaker 2: created who have a strong points of view, who hopefully
Speaker 2: in some cases we've got more impartial views, who are
Speaker 2: able to create content that is you know, sticky and
Speaker 2: engaging and build their own followings because there's been this
Speaker 2: great democratization of these social media platforms right that you
Speaker 2: don't have to be a big, huge company with a
Speaker 2: billion dollar valuation to build an audience, and that's I
Speaker 2: think the greatest threat to media is the individuals like
Speaker 2: yourselves and others who have something to say and have
Speaker 2: a point of view and are able to create content
Speaker 2: wherever they are and can build a following behind them
Speaker 2: and monetize that follow That's that's what I think the
Speaker 2: future of media is the individuals building brands around themselves.
Speaker 1: And so I've read that you know you're focused at
Speaker 1: nexus with innovative growth stage companies, and you know you
Speaker 1: can debunk that if that's not true. But I wonder
Speaker 1: what the reasoning behind sticking to growth stage companies is
Speaker 1: because a lot of people think about what I'm maybec stage.
Speaker 1: I've got a really great idea, but why growth stage?
Speaker 2: As an investor, it's one hundred percent to do with
Speaker 2: what my risk tolerance is and also to do with
Speaker 2: where I add value to a business. And you know,
Speaker 2: the early stage, very early stage companies. I almost describe
Speaker 2: most of the success to the team. Is it a
Speaker 2: team that has done this before? Is it a team
Speaker 2: that can lead, can drive value, has had successes but
Speaker 2: has also had failures. To me, the idea is secondary
Speaker 2: to who's going to execute the idea and even secondary
Speaker 2: to how well capitalized it is. And if I look
Speaker 2: at like, the reason I got into investing is because
Speaker 2: I spent my life in the music industry and I
Speaker 2: managed artists, and my goal for the artists was, having
Speaker 2: been in the business a while, is how do you
Speaker 2: give them a second act? Right, Like, how do you
Speaker 2: take that moment when they're at their absolute top of
Speaker 2: their career and their greatest influence and use it to
Speaker 2: leverage that into opportunities that give them the access to
Speaker 2: generational wealth. They give them access to cap tables that
Speaker 2: most people don't have access to. And so we started
Speaker 2: investing on behalf of the artists into businesses like early
Speaker 2: in Spotify right, businesses that didn't need money, weren't accepting
Speaker 2: other checks, but would allow us to come in because
Speaker 2: they thought it was interesting that the value proposition of
Speaker 2: having artists and people who were connected with you know,
Speaker 2: consumers and what the consumer base wanted. So that's how
Speaker 2: I got into investing, really is to engage my artists
Speaker 2: and give them opportunities to you know, opportunities that only
Speaker 2: old wealthy people have had for years and years and
Speaker 2: year and give them a seat at the table and
Speaker 2: that's what got me into investing, and the reason that
Speaker 2: I invest. You know, I have a risk profile. I
Speaker 2: don't love the idea of putting in twenty investments thinking
Speaker 2: one of them is going to work and hoping and praying. Right,
Speaker 2: I don't have that. I can't sit through that risk, right,
Speaker 2: that would stress me out. I like companies that have
Speaker 2: product market fit, have teams, and where they are is
Speaker 2: they're in a position where they're ready to put jet
Speaker 2: fuel on their business. And that's also because that's where
Speaker 2: I can add the value. Right as a brand builder,
Speaker 2: as a marketer, as a business person, my superpowers are around, Okay,
Speaker 2: you've got something really great. You've got the best business
Speaker 2: or brand that not enough people have heard of. Like
Speaker 2: what I can do to help your business is to
Speaker 2: take it and put it on blessed. And that's why
Speaker 2: you know, for me, i'd rather put money into a
Speaker 2: business that's going that has you know, may not give
Speaker 2: me one hundred times return and maybe one or two times,
Speaker 2: but there's very little risk that it's gonna disappear tomorrow. Right,
Speaker 2: And that's why I don't do early stage And it's
Speaker 2: purely a preference, purely risk tolerance perspective and also where
Speaker 2: I feel I can add the.
Speaker 1: Most, So I mean check the resume. Cec was Vice
Speaker 1: President of Worldwide Marketing at Epic Records Sony Music, where
Speaker 1: she led the marketing team and oversaw the USN international
Speaker 1: strategy for priority artists like Pearl jam Shade, Celine Dion,
Speaker 1: and Michael Jackson. She began her career in the record
Speaker 1: business at Aris the Records, working for the legendary Clive
Speaker 1: Davis as Director of Artists Development in special Projects. From there,
Speaker 1: decided to take her talent to private investment. What was
Speaker 1: the opportunity she saw? Cec speaks on it.
Speaker 2: Really, I'd been working in the music industry for twenty years.
Speaker 2: The opportunity to invest on behalf of my artists gave
Speaker 2: me this visibility across a lot of businesses, different industries,
Speaker 2: different management teams, different investor groups, and it really allowed
Speaker 2: me to sort of diversify my exposure, my professional journey,
Speaker 2: and my skill set. So I after doing quite a
Speaker 2: few of these investments, it seemed like a good opportunity
Speaker 2: to sort of allow myself to sort of take a
Speaker 2: few different paths on my professional journey and really do
Speaker 2: some light learning in all these other industries and that's
Speaker 2: what got me into investing, And ultimately why I sit
Speaker 2: on a lot of different boards is because I love
Speaker 2: to have visibility into a lot of different industries. But
Speaker 2: one thing that all of these industries have in common
Speaker 2: is they're central to bring and brand building. And whether
Speaker 2: it be finance, whether it be music and entertainment, or
Speaker 2: whether it be consumer, they're really all like how do
Speaker 2: you storytell? How do you how do you message what
Speaker 2: you're about? How do you message your values? And how
Speaker 2: do you disseminate that that message in a wide you know,
Speaker 2: to a wide group of people.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned this before. I'm gonna come back to
Speaker 1: the board talking a little bit. But you mentioned when
Speaker 1: the types of investments you involve yourself, is you get
Speaker 1: to bring those experiences as you've had historically. And what
Speaker 1: types of activities are you involved in operationally or otherwise
Speaker 1: with the companies that you make.
Speaker 2: Well, it really varies. Well, you know, I'm involved in
Speaker 2: big companies like Revlon and Warner Music and Man Group,
Speaker 2: which is a big publicly traded hedge fund, and I'm
Speaker 2: involved in earlier growth stage companies that I'm invested in
Speaker 2: and they all require different levels of engagement. I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, management, finding the right management team and done
Speaker 2: quite a few CEO searches and building the CEO CEOs
Speaker 2: team and management team. Obviously in areas like music and
Speaker 2: entertainment where I have a very specific and longstanding background,
Speaker 2: I get involved in many areas beyond the sort of
Speaker 2: more high level strategic board work, and it could really
Speaker 2: just be there to support the management team wherever I
Speaker 2: can troubleshoot and help make a difference. In the younger companies,
Speaker 2: probably much more operationally involved in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: really helping guide the management team, helping them make decison
Speaker 2: in some cases, helping them raise capital, hire teams, build
Speaker 2: a business model, pivot the business model, and help create
Speaker 2: opportunities and use my network to help them create opportunities
Speaker 2: for their business and themselves.
Speaker 1: And so we had Ursula Burns at a natro tech
Speaker 1: executive let someone sometime last year and she said something
Speaker 1: that I thought was remarkable, and I wasn't interviewing her,
Speaker 1: so I didn't get a chance to dig into this
Speaker 1: sentiment she had shared, and she had she we were
Speaker 1: talking about boards, and she didn't understand the fascination with
Speaker 1: board service to this body of people that we were
Speaker 1: in the room, And so I want to position what
Speaker 1: I would follow up with somebody who's had your experience.
Speaker 1: I mean you at Revlin, you know Uta Circuitay Sola
Speaker 1: and lon Von and more, and you've had all these
Speaker 1: wonderful experiences, and what are some good reasons to desire
Speaker 1: to sit on a board.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked the question because I do do
Speaker 2: a lot of do do a lot of talks about
Speaker 2: board service, and you know, my side hustle is putting
Speaker 2: women on boards. It's just something I challenge myself to
Speaker 2: put ten women, especially women of color, on boards every
Speaker 2: year because it's sort of opportunity begets, begets opportunity and
Speaker 2: helping share that network. But I agree with her in
Speaker 2: some quick cases. The first question I always ask a
Speaker 2: room like that is make sure you've answered the question
Speaker 2: why do you want to be on a board, And
Speaker 2: very few people have the answer. The answer for many
Speaker 2: people is immediately it's it's another sort of notch notch
Speaker 2: in my resume. It's sort of the next thing. Once
Speaker 2: I've done this, this and this, that's the next you know,
Speaker 2: the next step on the ladder. It looks good. It's
Speaker 2: you helped my personal brand. I think that could be
Speaker 2: part of the reason. But I think there have to
Speaker 2: be a lot more foundational reasons to join a board,
Speaker 2: and there are some, right, I noted one for me.
Speaker 2: I wanted to expand beyond my industry of choice, right, entertainment.
Speaker 2: I loved it. I done it a long time. It's
Speaker 2: very hard once you reach a certain level to be
Speaker 2: able to pivot into other industries, right, to be able
Speaker 2: to have that visibility at a strategic level, not at
Speaker 2: an entry level, at a strategic level, and board work
Speaker 2: is one of the ways you can do that. Right.
Speaker 2: It's you have transferable skills that you've learned building and
Speaker 2: running businesses in your core field that you can then
Speaker 2: lend to these other businesses. But also you're learning these
Speaker 2: other businesses. I didn't know consumer products. I don't know
Speaker 2: about supply chain, I didn't know about the capital markets.
Speaker 2: I was able to bring my expertise into these businesses.
Speaker 2: But more importantly, I've gotten so much. I am now,
Speaker 2: you know, if not fluent, certainly conversant in all these
Speaker 2: other industries. And at a certain point in your career
Speaker 2: when you may say, listen, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: just CCE the entertainment person or the music person. I
Speaker 2: want to both intellectually and professionally expand my skill set.
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good reason. I think for
Speaker 2: an operator of a business being able to work, if
Speaker 2: you're a CEO of a business, being able to work
Speaker 2: alongside and watch another CEO of a business work, and
Speaker 2: to be able to partner with them and help them
Speaker 2: but also learn from them. I think that's a really
Speaker 2: good reason to do. To be on a board. I
Speaker 2: think being able to expand your network beyond your industry
Speaker 2: and be on a board with board members that are
Speaker 2: from all sorts of different industries and would be a
Speaker 2: great network for you another great reason to do a board.
Speaker 2: I think where people get it wrong sometimes is they're
Speaker 2: going to make a lot of money. There are some
Speaker 2: opportunities to do that, but it's not. Board work is
Speaker 2: not you know you're stepping into you know you're stepping
Speaker 2: in it. That's not what it is. I think a
Speaker 2: mistake is to do it just purely because you think
Speaker 2: it's a profile choice. And I think it's important to know.
Speaker 2: For example, if you're an operator in a business, it's
Speaker 2: really hard to do board work right. You might be
Speaker 2: able to do one, but when you're on a board
Speaker 2: the time, you don't have to be there all the time.
Speaker 2: They are very specific times you need to show up
Speaker 2: and be involved. But you've got to be there. So
Speaker 2: if you're working a day job, you can't say I
Speaker 2: can't be at that board meeting. You can't say I
Speaker 2: can't you know, be on that call. You've got to
Speaker 2: be able to create the time for that board service.
Speaker 2: And the other issue I find with some people who
Speaker 2: have a day job, especially if they're you know, they're
Speaker 2: a founder or running a business, is if I'm an
Speaker 2: investor or, I'm a board member on your company, I
Speaker 2: want to know that you're one hundred and fifty percent
Speaker 2: devoted to your day job. I don't want you using
Speaker 2: your time and your you know, mental mass to be
Speaker 2: supporting another company that doesn't help grow the business that
Speaker 2: I'm involved in. So it does become tricky, right. A
Speaker 2: good you know, a good leader can see the value
Speaker 2: of being on another board to help them developmentally as
Speaker 2: a leader. But the idea they have to be able
Speaker 2: to maintain their day job at one hundred and fifty percent,
Speaker 2: and if that ever slips, you have the duty to
Speaker 2: sure that you're fully focused on your day job. The
Speaker 2: other thing I think people don't really understand is there's
Speaker 2: real liability and being on a board actual liability. So
Speaker 2: boards get sued all the time. You have insurance, but
Speaker 2: you need to be prepared for the fact that you
Speaker 2: have liability because you're a fiduciary of that company. And
Speaker 2: I think you've seen it. You know, there are people
Speaker 2: getting sued at Disney right now. There are people who
Speaker 2: were sued the suing the shareholders that sued Twitter, Twitter's board.
Speaker 2: You know, there there have been a lot, there are
Speaker 2: a lot of lawsuits. If a shareholder thinks that they
Speaker 2: did not that the board didn't act in the full
Speaker 2: support of the shareholders, they're going to sue. So just
Speaker 2: be prepared that there is liability that comes with it,
Speaker 2: not you know, if the grass isn't always green. Companies
Speaker 2: have problems and then you really on the hot seat
Speaker 2: and you've got to be you know, roll up your
Speaker 2: sleeves and get involved in in solving.
Speaker 1: Those And so I'm gonna ask this question, and it's
Speaker 1: gonna sound selfish, but there's us there's very core, there's
Speaker 1: very credentialed people who listen to this podcast, so there
Speaker 1: will be value across the board. So I have the
Speaker 1: privilege of sitting on a few boards, university boards, Ohio
Speaker 1: Casino Control Commission, we regulate all the casinos in Ohio,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Some international corporate boards I've sat on, and
Speaker 1: I want my question is this, there are for people
Speaker 1: who have sat on boards, there's a desire to get
Speaker 1: on bigger boards, and you don't want to just always
Speaker 1: trip over at these opportunities. So how can you be
Speaker 1: specific and intentional about creating opportunities for yourself? Because I'm
Speaker 1: not a black woman, so you know, maybe I don't
Speaker 1: qualify for your mentorship in that way, but you know
Speaker 1: I want but seeh I appreciate it. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: See but I wonder, like, how can people be intentional about,
Speaker 1: you know, these opportunities seeking them out?
Speaker 2: I think I think you how to be intentional about
Speaker 2: the opportunities. What I tell people, because you know, when
Speaker 2: as soon as your sort of reach a certain profile,
Speaker 2: inevitably opportunities are going to come your way. And I
Speaker 2: would say this in the same way that I would
Speaker 2: speak to my artists about building their own kind of
Speaker 2: career strategies. You're going to get the incoming phone calls.
Speaker 2: You're going to want to say no more than you
Speaker 2: say yes. And so when you say be intentional, think
Speaker 2: about the outgoing phone call. Think about why you know
Speaker 2: the question we just answered, why do you want to
Speaker 2: be on a board? Is it to expand your professional
Speaker 2: skill set? Is it to pivot your career? Is it
Speaker 2: to expand your network? Then you ask the question, Then
Speaker 2: you answer the question with what companies really interest me?
Speaker 2: What value could I add to a company? And then
Speaker 2: you start to formulate an opinion around the types of
Speaker 2: boards that would be interesting to you, whether they're big, small, private, public,
Speaker 2: You know, that's sort of secondary. What are the companies
Speaker 2: that are interesting to you? Because you've asked those questions,
Speaker 2: and I left off one point that I think is
Speaker 2: one of the mission critical questions for yourself. Who else
Speaker 2: is on the board? Right, both in terms of who
Speaker 2: are you? Who do you want to learn from, Who
Speaker 2: do you want to be a part of your network?
Speaker 2: Who do you admire? Who do you want to spend
Speaker 2: a lot of time with? Because you do spend a
Speaker 2: lot of time with your fellow board members critical questions
Speaker 2: to ask if you ask me. One of the most
Speaker 2: pivotal boards I was on was actually a nonprofit board.
Speaker 2: It was one of my first boards, and I arrived
Speaker 2: at this board and there were seven sitting public company
Speaker 2: CEOs also on the board. When I say it was
Speaker 2: the highest functioning board I have ever seen, the most
Speaker 2: high functioning people, entirely productive. Every meeting ran so well
Speaker 2: and everybody left that we left every meeting with things
Speaker 2: having been done, decisions having been made, And to me,
Speaker 2: that was actually one of the greatest learning experience around
Speaker 2: good governance, high functioning, uh, you know, board meetings and
Speaker 2: best practices and what's you know. The byproduct of that
Speaker 2: is having spent all that quality time peer to peer
Speaker 2: and elbow to elbow with these seven sitting CEOs. Not
Speaker 2: only did I learn from them, but they became part
Speaker 2: of my very very close network of advisors, of mentors
Speaker 2: and yes of pipeline to future future board work and
Speaker 2: career oppertuny comunities. There. You cannot understate the importance of
Speaker 2: the network. And I think sort of the board pipeline
Speaker 2: gets a bit of a bad rap because it has
Speaker 2: been historically very insulur, but there's also reason for that. Really,
Speaker 2: the decision around who gets on boards comes down to
Speaker 2: what I call the three c's right. Capability. Obviously, the
Speaker 2: person has to have the capabilities and the skill sets
Speaker 2: to be on that board. Chemistry right really important. Are
Speaker 2: you going to have chemistry with the other board members?
Speaker 2: Are are you a growth mindset person? Are you a
Speaker 2: fixed mindset person? Do you build consensus? Are you a
Speaker 2: table pounder? Are you going to get in that room
Speaker 2: and help it be really productive? And the last one
Speaker 2: is character, And this one is the most important one
Speaker 2: because I think it's the reason that boards have been
Speaker 2: very exclusive. Unlike hiring somebody for a regular job, when
Speaker 2: you put them in the boardroom, they have the enormous
Speaker 2: power over and around the business. With that, you need
Speaker 2: an enormous amount of trust of the person you're inviting
Speaker 2: onto the board. You need to trust in their values,
Speaker 2: in their ethics, in their you know, their ability to
Speaker 2: not only add value, but to be constructive. And that's
Speaker 2: not built overnight, right, You can't read that in somebody's
Speaker 2: LinkedIn and understand you know what that character is and
Speaker 2: you know haven't built that trust, So that trust means
Speaker 2: that a lot of people call people they know, They
Speaker 2: call people they know, they call people they've worked with,
Speaker 2: They've called people that that have great recommendations because people
Speaker 2: they trust have worked with them. And historically that means
Speaker 2: it's been a very small pool of people to pull from.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I certainly try to
Speaker 2: do is not only put people on boards, but to
Speaker 2: ensure that the people making the choices and decisions have
Speaker 2: exposure in their own network to all of these amazing
Speaker 2: people that may not have been on their radar before.
Speaker 2: Because it's not a supply issue. I think it's a
Speaker 2: connectivity issue. Giving exposure to the enormous supply of highly capable,
Speaker 2: talented people who are now a part of their network,
Speaker 2: and they can build relationships and build trust, which may
Speaker 2: lead to board opportunities, may lead to other career opportunities,
Speaker 2: may lead to mentorship opportunities. But I think really building
Speaker 2: that network and the relationships and the trust is important
Speaker 2: a part of developing the you know, the next generation
Speaker 2: of board members and hopefully much more diverse and representative
Speaker 2: generation of board members as just you know, pipelining resumes
Speaker 2: and using search forbs.
Speaker 1: So I was talking to Tristan Walker, who's a friend.
Speaker 1: It's hits on shake Check's board and foot Locker, and
Speaker 1: we were talking about how, you know, not only is
Speaker 1: diversity on boards the right thing to do, but there's
Speaker 1: also an economic reason there's diversity impacts the bottom line.
Speaker 1: And I want to ask a question on this is
Speaker 1: because at that same Afrotech executive we had with Ursula
Speaker 1: Burns and Merlin and Saint Till who's also on a
Speaker 1: lot of corporate boards, and there was a conversation around
Speaker 1: should how how much weight should we put into being
Speaker 1: on a board because you may be black too, the
Speaker 1: diversity they need that also, And I wonder what your
Speaker 1: thoughts are on how we should pursue board opportun munities
Speaker 1: because we might also be black. That doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we're not skilled and doesn't mean we have
Speaker 1: have an asset to provide, but we're also black. How
Speaker 1: much weight should we put into that?
Speaker 2: Listen, I mean, if two people are equally as qualified
Speaker 2: for a board role, bring representation onto your board, right.
Speaker 2: I think you know, Tristian's point is a really good one,
Speaker 2: and it's an economic imperative. It's not a diversity imperative.
Speaker 2: You know, boards should reflect their entire stakeholder group all
Speaker 2: the way through. Right, that is their consumer, that is
Speaker 2: their employees, that is their shareholders, that is their management teams,
Speaker 2: that is their board. So all the way through organizations,
Speaker 2: the board should reflect every aspect of that stakeholder group.
Speaker 2: And that just becomes an economic, you know, imperative, because
Speaker 2: that means you're going to be able to better serve
Speaker 2: your end consumer, your end business. Right, having representation in
Speaker 2: the room. It's one thing that actually has driven me
Speaker 2: crazy about the beauty industry, which is still so segregated. Right,
Speaker 2: Multicultural teams live over here, general market lives over here.
Speaker 2: And you know, if you want to actually get the best,
Speaker 2: you know for your company, have representation throughout. Bring those
Speaker 2: multicultural folks in, have them be at the point of
Speaker 2: origin of product, innovation, of marketing, of c suite and
Speaker 2: yes of board, and you'll get the benefit of being
Speaker 2: able to wrap your arms around all cultures and the
Speaker 2: entire audience. And you also bring some very important and
Speaker 2: critical perspectives into the room of what they call the
Speaker 2: general market. So, but you know, to answer your question directly,
Speaker 2: I think it's as important that when we get on
Speaker 2: these boards that we are high performing. We need to
Speaker 2: get on those boards and not be in the back quiet,
Speaker 2: you know, cashing our ticket. We need to come in
Speaker 2: these boards and have a very strong voice and be
Speaker 2: able to make a real impact on the boards. So yes,
Speaker 2: I think we need more diversity, more people of color
Speaker 2: on boards. But it's important when they get out to
Speaker 2: get on those boards that they're there for the right
Speaker 2: reasons and that they're there and can make an impact.
Speaker 2: Otherwise we'll start going in the other direction.
Speaker 1: Certainly. I think I read this from Wall Street Women's Forum,
Speaker 1: and this was written about you. It says, utilizing her
Speaker 1: artist development expertise to develop businesses and entrepreneurs, CC has
Speaker 1: grown a portfolio of companies taking on varying degrees of
Speaker 1: operational involvement. And I've referenced that because you said something
Speaker 1: earlier regarding you know, changing from talent management to investment.
Speaker 1: And so many of us, particularly career minded people, think
Speaker 1: about they may be unhappy in what they're doing today,
Speaker 1: they may want to do something else, and so many
Speaker 1: of us think that we need to stop what we're
Speaker 1: doing to do something else. You saw what you were
Speaker 1: doing as elite as a launch pad to do what
Speaker 1: you're doing now, How should we be thinking about reimagining
Speaker 1: our activities and reimagining our skill sets to be able
Speaker 1: to deploy them to different targets instead of leaving what
Speaker 1: we're doing altogether to start something new.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question, I think, you know, I
Speaker 2: think about that word reimagining a little bit, and i've
Speaker 2: word that I hear a lot, which is pivoting. I
Speaker 2: think taking stock of the skill sets that you've already developed.
Speaker 2: I think the idea of doing something new is really semantics. Right.
Speaker 2: You're going to bring your experience from whatever you've been
Speaker 2: doing into the next thing you do. There are very
Speaker 2: few experiences sets that have no transferable skills. Right. So
Speaker 2: when I say I went from talent management building living
Speaker 2: brands into investing, because immediately you see the same thread
Speaker 2: where entrepreneurs are like artists. Right, you're building their brands,
Speaker 2: you're telling their stories, You're ensuring that they what they
Speaker 2: want to put forward is also what the consumer understands,
Speaker 2: creating that connective tissue that is consistent whether you're dealing
Speaker 2: with music artists or you're dealing with entrepreneurs and new businesses.
Speaker 2: Launching a new business in so many ways is super
Speaker 2: similar to developing a new artist's career. And as soon
Speaker 2: as I kind of understood that connective tissue because there
Speaker 2: are so many familiar moments, it gives you a whole
Speaker 2: other level of confidence. Right That's like, Oh, I'm not
Speaker 2: switch in careers. I am taking everything I've built and
Speaker 2: developed and learned and internalized, and I'm applying it to
Speaker 2: a new uh industry, or I'm applying it to a
Speaker 2: new position or a new career strategy. But I would
Speaker 2: never say you're you know, You're never starting from scratch,
Speaker 2: is what my point is, so really being able to
Speaker 2: take stock of the amazing experience that you've already built
Speaker 2: and think about how it translates into some of these
Speaker 2: other areas.
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afrotech
Speaker 1: in the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media,
Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas.
Speaker 1: The additional production support by Sarah Ragan and Rose McLucas.
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Mike and Davis, Vanessa Surround and
Speaker 1: my Emoldru. Learn more about my casts and other tech
Speaker 1: disruptors to innovators at afrotech dot com enjoy your black tech,
Speaker 1: green money. Share us to somebody, go get your money.
Speaker 1: Heakes some love