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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black tech, Green money.

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Speaker 1: Cc Kurrisman is a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member.

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Speaker 1: As a former music executive and talent manager, she's guided

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Speaker 1: the careers, business strategies, and brand development of many of

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Speaker 1: the biggest artists on the planet. As a board member,

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Speaker 1: she either currently or has out on the boards of

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Speaker 1: directors for Revline, Circus, Dates, so Let, Warner Music Group,

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Speaker 1: Line Vine Grew, United Talent Agency, and more. Currently, she

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Speaker 1: leads Nexus Management Grew, a private investment company dedicated to innovative,

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Speaker 1: growth stage businesses in the consumer media and technology sectors.

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Speaker 1: Traditional media is still being disrupted daily by innovation that

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Speaker 1: provides a platform to social media commentators and creators, but

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Speaker 1: many new media companies have a hard time figuring it

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Speaker 1: out also, and there are many stories of late were

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Speaker 1: well funded platforms either no longer exists or are today

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Speaker 1: not getting after it, not meeting it full potential. It

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Speaker 1: was all good just a week ago. As someone who's

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Speaker 1: an investor in growing media platforms, I sec to paint

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Speaker 1: a picture of what the landscape currently looks like.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, I think some of the really

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Speaker 2: the downfall of some of the larger new digital media businesses.

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Speaker 2: I think really speaks to the venture model, which is

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Speaker 2: quite broken, and I think we're starting to see where

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Speaker 2: the cracks and the pavement are by watching not just

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Speaker 2: these media businesses, but some of the other tech businesses

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Speaker 2: and other businesses that I think are now suffering because

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Speaker 2: of the valuations and the enterprise values that were so

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Speaker 2: frovy in the last ten years and didn't really reflect

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Speaker 2: the strength and the solid nature of the business. And

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Speaker 2: by that, I mean, you know, now everybody's talking about it,

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Speaker 2: but we knew. We knew it was happening when it

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Speaker 2: was happening, right, We knew valuations were not you know,

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Speaker 2: we had companies that were based on valuations with no profitability.

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Speaker 2: We had companies that continue to raise large sums of

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Speaker 2: capital based on paper valuations, not based on you know,

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Speaker 2: an actual business model and the health and structure of

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Speaker 2: the business. So it's not I would say, a surprise

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing a lot of these media companies go away.

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Speaker 2: They're sort of suffering from their own perceived success because

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Speaker 2: they did raise a lot of money, and they raised

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Speaker 2: a lot of money against the expectations of some really

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Speaker 2: really massive valuations. And it's not to say that these

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Speaker 2: aren't great companies with great prospects, but unfortunately they were

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Speaker 2: burdened by their own success and expectations that were set

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Speaker 2: for them and buy them.

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Speaker 1: Really, So, what's happening from the venture side that allows

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Speaker 1: that to happen. Is it just so much money in

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Speaker 1: the system that they've got to deploy it somewhere or

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Speaker 1: is it very charismatic founders? What's happening?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. Right, Media

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Speaker 2: and tech are both sort of suffering in the same

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Speaker 2: you know, in the same downturn, and the irony isn't

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Speaker 2: it isn't really about the businesses. The businesses in many

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Speaker 2: cases are still thriving, right, They're still growing, perhaps not

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Speaker 2: at the pace that they did out of the gate,

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Speaker 2: or at the pace that was expected based on their valuation.

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Speaker 2: So you know, they are good businesses, good teams, good

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Speaker 2: underlying business model, but the expectations are out here, right,

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Speaker 2: and I think what you're seeing now is really a

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Speaker 2: correction to where it should be. But of course anybody

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Speaker 2: who invested at the high valuation sees this as you know,

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Speaker 2: the end of days, because the valuations are now coming

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Speaker 2: down to a place where probably they should have been. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: these companies probably shouldn't have raised so much money. Money

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Speaker 2: will cover up a lot of mistakes, and sometimes you

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Speaker 2: actually need to see and live your mistakes and own

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Speaker 2: your mistakes and set backs to be able to continue

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Speaker 2: to build a business in a healthy way.

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Speaker 1: So, from an investment perspective, what does innovation look like

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Speaker 1: these days in media? Because I brought up there's so

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Speaker 1: many people doing this independently, and you also have a

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Speaker 1: lot of social media commentators on these things. So what

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Speaker 1: does innovation look.

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Speaker 2: In any No matter how you slice it, media is expensive.

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Speaker 2: To build a media business from scratch is expensive. I

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Speaker 2: think you had a lot of companies really diversifying too

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Speaker 2: quickly across too many formats to be able to chase

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Speaker 2: scale and valuation. If you look at actually some of

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Speaker 2: the success stor and media, look at some of the

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Speaker 2: incumbents who have actually pivoted in an interesting way. New

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Speaker 2: York Times just launched their app. New York Times is

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Speaker 2: doing very well. This is this is a you know,

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Speaker 2: age old the old gray ladies they call her age

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Speaker 2: old media business that has gone from being an incumbent

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Speaker 2: and a legacy business and really pivoted in a very

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Speaker 2: very strategic way into the modern you know, into the

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Speaker 2: modern era. But this is a company that's been built

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Speaker 2: over one hundred years, step by step by step. It

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Speaker 2: had foundation, it had real brand awareness, it had real following,

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Speaker 2: it had real authority in its space. So they had

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Speaker 2: all those foundational elements that were built over the years

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Speaker 2: to enable them to then innovate. A lot of the

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Speaker 2: newer companies really just you know, built really quickly, and

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Speaker 2: audiences were fickle, and it was really hard to sustain

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Speaker 2: and maintain a solid, you know, solid foundations as they

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Speaker 2: needed to scale their audience. And then once the you know,

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Speaker 2: once the kind of curtain gets pulled back a little bit,

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Speaker 2: they're in real trouble very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: And so I think about being a social media being

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Speaker 1: on social media, very active on social media. It's very

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Speaker 1: difficult for people like media and across I guess the

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Speaker 1: many different demographics to leave social media, to go to

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Speaker 1: another link, another location on the Internet. And so I

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Speaker 1: wonder what your thoughts are on Let's say I go,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to the New York Times, and then I

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Speaker 1: got a paywall, and you know, maybe I'm not a subscriber,

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Speaker 1: so and but you're talking about their growing So how

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Speaker 1: are these things happening when a number one social media

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Speaker 1: platforms don't want you to leave, so they made suppress

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Speaker 1: those links out And then when you get to the

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Speaker 1: place now I can only read the first line of

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Speaker 1: a story.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's an age old market strategy. Right.

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Speaker 2: They have to have content that's compelling enough that you're

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Speaker 2: going to wanna that you're going to want to get

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Speaker 2: behind the paywall. I think they have subscribers because their

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Speaker 2: brand is mean something, right, It's like how many streaming

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Speaker 2: services are you going to sign up for? Most people

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Speaker 2: have Netflix, maybe one or two others, But how do

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Speaker 2: you become somebody needs to come over there and do

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Speaker 2: and do like you know.

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Speaker 1: An auditious seriously right?

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Speaker 2: But Netflix became what I call utility, right, something that

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Speaker 2: you just you pay like you play pay the electric bill.

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Speaker 2: It's not something you turn off whether you're reading, whether

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Speaker 2: you're watching a show that's that's original to Netflix or

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Speaker 2: exclusive to Netflix or not. That is what every media

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Speaker 2: outlet aspires to, where the content is such that it

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Speaker 2: becomes your utility, something that you're not going to live without.

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Speaker 2: And I actually think a lot of social media personalities

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Speaker 2: have been able to build their own followings and being

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Speaker 2: able to monetize their own followings to many at the

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Speaker 2: expense of a lot of these you know, larger digital

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Speaker 2: media outlets. The idea is their monetization strategy is different.

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Speaker 2: They're able to use other platforms and other platforms advertisers

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Speaker 2: to help monetize and pay some of these social media

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Speaker 2: pundits and personalities. That's what I love about the business.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the New York Times is a great example

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Speaker 2: of an existing media company, big media company that continues

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Speaker 2: to innovate and nurture what already existed in terms of

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Speaker 2: a following and hopefully build a few you know, new followers,

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Speaker 2: but they had it. What I love and what I

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Speaker 2: think the future of media is is these individuals who

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Speaker 2: created who have a strong points of view, who hopefully

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Speaker 2: in some cases we've got more impartial views, who are

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Speaker 2: able to create content that is you know, sticky and

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Speaker 2: engaging and build their own followings because there's been this

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Speaker 2: great democratization of these social media platforms right that you

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Speaker 2: don't have to be a big, huge company with a

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Speaker 2: billion dollar valuation to build an audience, and that's I

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Speaker 2: think the greatest threat to media is the individuals like

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Speaker 2: yourselves and others who have something to say and have

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Speaker 2: a point of view and are able to create content

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Speaker 2: wherever they are and can build a following behind them

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Speaker 2: and monetize that follow That's that's what I think the

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Speaker 2: future of media is the individuals building brands around themselves.

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Speaker 1: And so I've read that you know you're focused at

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Speaker 1: nexus with innovative growth stage companies, and you know you

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Speaker 1: can debunk that if that's not true. But I wonder

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Speaker 1: what the reasoning behind sticking to growth stage companies is

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people think about what I'm maybec stage.

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Speaker 1: I've got a really great idea, but why growth stage?

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Speaker 2: As an investor, it's one hundred percent to do with

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Speaker 2: what my risk tolerance is and also to do with

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Speaker 2: where I add value to a business. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the early stage, very early stage companies. I almost describe

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Speaker 2: most of the success to the team. Is it a

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Speaker 2: team that has done this before? Is it a team

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Speaker 2: that can lead, can drive value, has had successes but

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Speaker 2: has also had failures. To me, the idea is secondary

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Speaker 2: to who's going to execute the idea and even secondary

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Speaker 2: to how well capitalized it is. And if I look

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Speaker 2: at like, the reason I got into investing is because

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Speaker 2: I spent my life in the music industry and I

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Speaker 2: managed artists, and my goal for the artists was, having

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Speaker 2: been in the business a while, is how do you

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Speaker 2: give them a second act? Right, Like, how do you

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Speaker 2: take that moment when they're at their absolute top of

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Speaker 2: their career and their greatest influence and use it to

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Speaker 2: leverage that into opportunities that give them the access to

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Speaker 2: generational wealth. They give them access to cap tables that

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Speaker 2: most people don't have access to. And so we started

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Speaker 2: investing on behalf of the artists into businesses like early

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Speaker 2: in Spotify right, businesses that didn't need money, weren't accepting

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Speaker 2: other checks, but would allow us to come in because

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Speaker 2: they thought it was interesting that the value proposition of

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Speaker 2: having artists and people who were connected with you know,

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Speaker 2: consumers and what the consumer base wanted. So that's how

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Speaker 2: I got into investing, really is to engage my artists

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Speaker 2: and give them opportunities to you know, opportunities that only

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Speaker 2: old wealthy people have had for years and years and

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Speaker 2: year and give them a seat at the table and

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Speaker 2: that's what got me into investing, and the reason that

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Speaker 2: I invest. You know, I have a risk profile. I

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Speaker 2: don't love the idea of putting in twenty investments thinking

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Speaker 2: one of them is going to work and hoping and praying. Right,

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Speaker 2: I don't have that. I can't sit through that risk, right,

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Speaker 2: that would stress me out. I like companies that have

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Speaker 2: product market fit, have teams, and where they are is

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Speaker 2: they're in a position where they're ready to put jet

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Speaker 2: fuel on their business. And that's also because that's where

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Speaker 2: I can add the value. Right as a brand builder,

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Speaker 2: as a marketer, as a business person, my superpowers are around, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you've got something really great. You've got the best business

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Speaker 2: or brand that not enough people have heard of. Like

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Speaker 2: what I can do to help your business is to

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Speaker 2: take it and put it on blessed. And that's why

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Speaker 2: you know, for me, i'd rather put money into a

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Speaker 2: business that's going that has you know, may not give

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Speaker 2: me one hundred times return and maybe one or two times,

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Speaker 2: but there's very little risk that it's gonna disappear tomorrow. Right,

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Speaker 2: And that's why I don't do early stage And it's

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Speaker 2: purely a preference, purely risk tolerance perspective and also where

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Speaker 2: I feel I can add the.

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Speaker 1: Most, So I mean check the resume. Cec was Vice

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Speaker 1: President of Worldwide Marketing at Epic Records Sony Music, where

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Speaker 1: she led the marketing team and oversaw the USN international

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Speaker 1: strategy for priority artists like Pearl jam Shade, Celine Dion,

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Speaker 1: and Michael Jackson. She began her career in the record

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Speaker 1: business at Aris the Records, working for the legendary Clive

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Speaker 1: Davis as Director of Artists Development in special Projects. From there,

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Speaker 1: decided to take her talent to private investment. What was

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Speaker 1: the opportunity she saw? Cec speaks on it.

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Speaker 2: Really, I'd been working in the music industry for twenty years.

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Speaker 2: The opportunity to invest on behalf of my artists gave

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Speaker 2: me this visibility across a lot of businesses, different industries,

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Speaker 2: different management teams, different investor groups, and it really allowed

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Speaker 2: me to sort of diversify my exposure, my professional journey,

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Speaker 2: and my skill set. So I after doing quite a

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Speaker 2: few of these investments, it seemed like a good opportunity

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Speaker 2: to sort of allow myself to sort of take a

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Speaker 2: few different paths on my professional journey and really do

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Speaker 2: some light learning in all these other industries and that's

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Speaker 2: what got me into investing, And ultimately why I sit

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Speaker 2: on a lot of different boards is because I love

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Speaker 2: to have visibility into a lot of different industries. But

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Speaker 2: one thing that all of these industries have in common

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Speaker 2: is they're central to bring and brand building. And whether

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Speaker 2: it be finance, whether it be music and entertainment, or

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Speaker 2: whether it be consumer, they're really all like how do

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Speaker 2: you storytell? How do you how do you message what

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Speaker 2: you're about? How do you message your values? And how

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Speaker 2: do you disseminate that that message in a wide you know,

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Speaker 2: to a wide group of people.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned this before. I'm gonna come back to

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Speaker 1: the board talking a little bit. But you mentioned when

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Speaker 1: the types of investments you involve yourself, is you get

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Speaker 1: to bring those experiences as you've had historically. And what

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Speaker 1: types of activities are you involved in operationally or otherwise

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Speaker 1: with the companies that you make.

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Speaker 2: Well, it really varies. Well, you know, I'm involved in

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Speaker 2: big companies like Revlon and Warner Music and Man Group,

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Speaker 2: which is a big publicly traded hedge fund, and I'm

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Speaker 2: involved in earlier growth stage companies that I'm invested in

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Speaker 2: and they all require different levels of engagement. I would say,

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Speaker 2: you know, management, finding the right management team and done

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Speaker 2: quite a few CEO searches and building the CEO CEOs

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Speaker 2: team and management team. Obviously in areas like music and

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Speaker 2: entertainment where I have a very specific and longstanding background,

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Speaker 2: I get involved in many areas beyond the sort of

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Speaker 2: more high level strategic board work, and it could really

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Speaker 2: just be there to support the management team wherever I

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Speaker 2: can troubleshoot and help make a difference. In the younger companies,

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Speaker 2: probably much more operationally involved in terms of you know,

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Speaker 2: really helping guide the management team, helping them make decison

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Speaker 2: in some cases, helping them raise capital, hire teams, build

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Speaker 2: a business model, pivot the business model, and help create

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Speaker 2: opportunities and use my network to help them create opportunities

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Speaker 2: for their business and themselves.

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Speaker 1: And so we had Ursula Burns at a natro tech

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Speaker 1: executive let someone sometime last year and she said something

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Speaker 1: that I thought was remarkable, and I wasn't interviewing her,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't get a chance to dig into this

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Speaker 1: sentiment she had shared, and she had she we were

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Speaker 1: talking about boards, and she didn't understand the fascination with

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Speaker 1: board service to this body of people that we were

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Speaker 1: in the room, And so I want to position what

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Speaker 1: I would follow up with somebody who's had your experience.

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Speaker 1: I mean you at Revlin, you know Uta Circuitay Sola

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Speaker 1: and lon Von and more, and you've had all these

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Speaker 1: wonderful experiences, and what are some good reasons to desire

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Speaker 1: to sit on a board.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked the question because I do do

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Speaker 2: a lot of do do a lot of talks about

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Speaker 2: board service, and you know, my side hustle is putting

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Speaker 2: women on boards. It's just something I challenge myself to

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Speaker 2: put ten women, especially women of color, on boards every

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Speaker 2: year because it's sort of opportunity begets, begets opportunity and

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Speaker 2: helping share that network. But I agree with her in

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Speaker 2: some quick cases. The first question I always ask a

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Speaker 2: room like that is make sure you've answered the question

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Speaker 2: why do you want to be on a board, And

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Speaker 2: very few people have the answer. The answer for many

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Speaker 2: people is immediately it's it's another sort of notch notch

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Speaker 2: in my resume. It's sort of the next thing. Once

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Speaker 2: I've done this, this and this, that's the next you know,

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Speaker 2: the next step on the ladder. It looks good. It's

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Speaker 2: you helped my personal brand. I think that could be

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Speaker 2: part of the reason. But I think there have to

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Speaker 2: be a lot more foundational reasons to join a board,

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Speaker 2: and there are some, right, I noted one for me.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to expand beyond my industry of choice, right, entertainment.

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Speaker 2: I loved it. I done it a long time. It's

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Speaker 2: very hard once you reach a certain level to be

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Speaker 2: able to pivot into other industries, right, to be able

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Speaker 2: to have that visibility at a strategic level, not at

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Speaker 2: an entry level, at a strategic level, and board work

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Speaker 2: is one of the ways you can do that. Right.

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Speaker 2: It's you have transferable skills that you've learned building and

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Speaker 2: running businesses in your core field that you can then

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Speaker 2: lend to these other businesses. But also you're learning these

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Speaker 2: other businesses. I didn't know consumer products. I don't know

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Speaker 2: about supply chain, I didn't know about the capital markets.

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Speaker 2: I was able to bring my expertise into these businesses.

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Speaker 2: But more importantly, I've gotten so much. I am now,

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Speaker 2: you know, if not fluent, certainly conversant in all these

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Speaker 2: other industries. And at a certain point in your career

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Speaker 2: when you may say, listen, I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: just CCE the entertainment person or the music person. I

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Speaker 2: want to both intellectually and professionally expand my skill set.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a really good reason. I think for

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Speaker 2: an operator of a business being able to work, if

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Speaker 2: you're a CEO of a business, being able to work

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Speaker 2: alongside and watch another CEO of a business work, and

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Speaker 2: to be able to partner with them and help them

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Speaker 2: but also learn from them. I think that's a really

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Speaker 2: good reason to do. To be on a board. I

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Speaker 2: think being able to expand your network beyond your industry

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Speaker 2: and be on a board with board members that are

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Speaker 2: from all sorts of different industries and would be a

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Speaker 2: great network for you another great reason to do a board.

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Speaker 2: I think where people get it wrong sometimes is they're

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Speaker 2: going to make a lot of money. There are some

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Speaker 2: opportunities to do that, but it's not. Board work is

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Speaker 2: not you know you're stepping into you know you're stepping

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Speaker 2: in it. That's not what it is. I think a

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Speaker 2: mistake is to do it just purely because you think

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Speaker 2: it's a profile choice. And I think it's important to know.

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Speaker 2: For example, if you're an operator in a business, it's

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Speaker 2: really hard to do board work right. You might be

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Speaker 2: able to do one, but when you're on a board

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Speaker 2: the time, you don't have to be there all the time.

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Speaker 2: They are very specific times you need to show up

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Speaker 2: and be involved. But you've got to be there. So

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Speaker 2: if you're working a day job, you can't say I

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Speaker 2: can't be at that board meeting. You can't say I

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Speaker 2: can't you know, be on that call. You've got to

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Speaker 2: be able to create the time for that board service.

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Speaker 2: And the other issue I find with some people who

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Speaker 2: have a day job, especially if they're you know, they're

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Speaker 2: a founder or running a business, is if I'm an

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Speaker 2: investor or, I'm a board member on your company, I

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Speaker 2: want to know that you're one hundred and fifty percent

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Speaker 2: devoted to your day job. I don't want you using

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Speaker 2: your time and your you know, mental mass to be

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Speaker 2: supporting another company that doesn't help grow the business that

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Speaker 2: I'm involved in. So it does become tricky, right. A

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Speaker 2: good you know, a good leader can see the value

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Speaker 2: of being on another board to help them developmentally as

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Speaker 2: a leader. But the idea they have to be able

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Speaker 2: to maintain their day job at one hundred and fifty percent,

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Speaker 2: and if that ever slips, you have the duty to

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Speaker 2: sure that you're fully focused on your day job. The

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Speaker 2: other thing I think people don't really understand is there's

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Speaker 2: real liability and being on a board actual liability. So

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Speaker 2: boards get sued all the time. You have insurance, but

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Speaker 2: you need to be prepared for the fact that you

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Speaker 2: have liability because you're a fiduciary of that company. And

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Speaker 2: I think you've seen it. You know, there are people

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Speaker 2: getting sued at Disney right now. There are people who

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Speaker 2: were sued the suing the shareholders that sued Twitter, Twitter's board.

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Speaker 2: You know, there there have been a lot, there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of lawsuits. If a shareholder thinks that they

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Speaker 2: did not that the board didn't act in the full

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Speaker 2: support of the shareholders, they're going to sue. So just

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Speaker 2: be prepared that there is liability that comes with it,

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Speaker 2: not you know, if the grass isn't always green. Companies

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Speaker 2: have problems and then you really on the hot seat

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Speaker 2: and you've got to be you know, roll up your

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Speaker 2: sleeves and get involved in in solving.

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Speaker 1: Those And so I'm gonna ask this question, and it's

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Speaker 1: gonna sound selfish, but there's us there's very core, there's

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Speaker 1: very credentialed people who listen to this podcast, so there

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Speaker 1: will be value across the board. So I have the

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Speaker 1: privilege of sitting on a few boards, university boards, Ohio

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Speaker 1: Casino Control Commission, we regulate all the casinos in Ohio,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Some international corporate boards I've sat on, and

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Speaker 1: I want my question is this, there are for people

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Speaker 1: who have sat on boards, there's a desire to get

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Speaker 1: on bigger boards, and you don't want to just always

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Speaker 1: trip over at these opportunities. So how can you be

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Speaker 1: specific and intentional about creating opportunities for yourself? Because I'm

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Speaker 1: not a black woman, so you know, maybe I don't

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Speaker 1: qualify for your mentorship in that way, but you know

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Speaker 1: I want but seeh I appreciate it. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: See but I wonder, like, how can people be intentional about,

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Speaker 1: you know, these opportunities seeking them out?

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Speaker 2: I think I think you how to be intentional about

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Speaker 2: the opportunities. What I tell people, because you know, when

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Speaker 2: as soon as your sort of reach a certain profile,

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Speaker 2: inevitably opportunities are going to come your way. And I

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Speaker 2: would say this in the same way that I would

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Speaker 2: speak to my artists about building their own kind of

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Speaker 2: career strategies. You're going to get the incoming phone calls.

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Speaker 2: You're going to want to say no more than you

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Speaker 2: say yes. And so when you say be intentional, think

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Speaker 2: about the outgoing phone call. Think about why you know

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Speaker 2: the question we just answered, why do you want to

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Speaker 2: be on a board? Is it to expand your professional

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Speaker 2: skill set? Is it to pivot your career? Is it

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Speaker 2: to expand your network? Then you ask the question, Then

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Speaker 2: you answer the question with what companies really interest me?

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Speaker 2: What value could I add to a company? And then

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Speaker 2: you start to formulate an opinion around the types of

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Speaker 2: boards that would be interesting to you, whether they're big, small, private, public,

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Speaker 2: You know, that's sort of secondary. What are the companies

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Speaker 2: that are interesting to you? Because you've asked those questions,

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Speaker 2: and I left off one point that I think is

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Speaker 2: one of the mission critical questions for yourself. Who else

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Speaker 2: is on the board? Right, both in terms of who

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Speaker 2: are you? Who do you want to learn from, Who

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Speaker 2: do you want to be a part of your network?

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Speaker 2: Who do you admire? Who do you want to spend

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Speaker 2: a lot of time with? Because you do spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time with your fellow board members critical questions

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Speaker 2: to ask if you ask me. One of the most

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Speaker 2: pivotal boards I was on was actually a nonprofit board.

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Speaker 2: It was one of my first boards, and I arrived

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Speaker 2: at this board and there were seven sitting public company

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Speaker 2: CEOs also on the board. When I say it was

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Speaker 2: the highest functioning board I have ever seen, the most

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Speaker 2: high functioning people, entirely productive. Every meeting ran so well

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Speaker 2: and everybody left that we left every meeting with things

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Speaker 2: having been done, decisions having been made, And to me,

435
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: that was actually one of the greatest learning experience around

436
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: good governance, high functioning, uh, you know, board meetings and

437
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: best practices and what's you know. The byproduct of that

438
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: is having spent all that quality time peer to peer

439
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 2: and elbow to elbow with these seven sitting CEOs. Not

440
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 2: only did I learn from them, but they became part

441
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: of my very very close network of advisors, of mentors

442
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: and yes of pipeline to future future board work and

443
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: career oppertuny comunities. There. You cannot understate the importance of

444
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: the network. And I think sort of the board pipeline

445
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: gets a bit of a bad rap because it has

446
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: been historically very insulur, but there's also reason for that. Really,

447
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: the decision around who gets on boards comes down to

448
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: what I call the three c's right. Capability. Obviously, the

449
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: person has to have the capabilities and the skill sets

450
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: to be on that board. Chemistry right really important. Are

451
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: you going to have chemistry with the other board members?

452
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: Are are you a growth mindset person? Are you a

453
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: fixed mindset person? Do you build consensus? Are you a

454
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: table pounder? Are you going to get in that room

455
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: and help it be really productive? And the last one

456
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: is character, And this one is the most important one

457
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: because I think it's the reason that boards have been

458
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: very exclusive. Unlike hiring somebody for a regular job, when

459
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: you put them in the boardroom, they have the enormous

460
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: power over and around the business. With that, you need

461
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: an enormous amount of trust of the person you're inviting

462
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: onto the board. You need to trust in their values,

463
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: in their ethics, in their you know, their ability to

464
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: not only add value, but to be constructive. And that's

465
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: not built overnight, right, You can't read that in somebody's

466
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: LinkedIn and understand you know what that character is and

467
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: you know haven't built that trust, So that trust means

468
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: that a lot of people call people they know, They

469
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: call people they know, they call people they've worked with,

470
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: They've called people that that have great recommendations because people

471
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: they trust have worked with them. And historically that means

472
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: it's been a very small pool of people to pull from.

473
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I certainly try to

474
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: do is not only put people on boards, but to

475
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: ensure that the people making the choices and decisions have

476
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: exposure in their own network to all of these amazing

477
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: people that may not have been on their radar before.

478
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: Because it's not a supply issue. I think it's a

479
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: connectivity issue. Giving exposure to the enormous supply of highly capable,

480
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: talented people who are now a part of their network,

481
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 2: and they can build relationships and build trust, which may

482
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: lead to board opportunities, may lead to other career opportunities,

483
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: may lead to mentorship opportunities. But I think really building

484
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: that network and the relationships and the trust is important

485
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: a part of developing the you know, the next generation

486
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: of board members and hopefully much more diverse and representative

487
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: generation of board members as just you know, pipelining resumes

488
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: and using search forbs.

489
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: So I was talking to Tristan Walker, who's a friend.

490
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: It's hits on shake Check's board and foot Locker, and

491
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: we were talking about how, you know, not only is

492
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: diversity on boards the right thing to do, but there's

493
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: also an economic reason there's diversity impacts the bottom line.

494
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: And I want to ask a question on this is

495
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: because at that same Afrotech executive we had with Ursula

496
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: Burns and Merlin and Saint Till who's also on a

497
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: lot of corporate boards, and there was a conversation around

498
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: should how how much weight should we put into being

499
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: on a board because you may be black too, the

500
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: diversity they need that also, And I wonder what your

501
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: thoughts are on how we should pursue board opportun munities

502
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: because we might also be black. That doesn't mean that

503
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we're not skilled and doesn't mean we have

504
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: have an asset to provide, but we're also black. How

505
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: much weight should we put into that?

506
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: Listen, I mean, if two people are equally as qualified

507
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: for a board role, bring representation onto your board, right.

508
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: I think you know, Tristian's point is a really good one,

509
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: and it's an economic imperative. It's not a diversity imperative.

510
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: You know, boards should reflect their entire stakeholder group all

511
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: the way through. Right, that is their consumer, that is

512
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: their employees, that is their shareholders, that is their management teams,

513
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: that is their board. So all the way through organizations,

514
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: the board should reflect every aspect of that stakeholder group.

515
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: And that just becomes an economic, you know, imperative, because

516
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: that means you're going to be able to better serve

517
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: your end consumer, your end business. Right, having representation in

518
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: the room. It's one thing that actually has driven me

519
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: crazy about the beauty industry, which is still so segregated. Right,

520
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: Multicultural teams live over here, general market lives over here.

521
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: And you know, if you want to actually get the best,

522
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: you know for your company, have representation throughout. Bring those

523
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: multicultural folks in, have them be at the point of

524
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: origin of product, innovation, of marketing, of c suite and

525
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: yes of board, and you'll get the benefit of being

526
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: able to wrap your arms around all cultures and the

527
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: entire audience. And you also bring some very important and

528
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: critical perspectives into the room of what they call the

529
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: general market. So, but you know, to answer your question directly,

530
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: I think it's as important that when we get on

531
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: these boards that we are high performing. We need to

532
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: get on those boards and not be in the back quiet,

533
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: you know, cashing our ticket. We need to come in

534
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: these boards and have a very strong voice and be

535
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: able to make a real impact on the boards. So yes,

536
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: I think we need more diversity, more people of color

537
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: on boards. But it's important when they get out to

538
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: get on those boards that they're there for the right

539
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: reasons and that they're there and can make an impact.

540
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: Otherwise we'll start going in the other direction.

541
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: Certainly. I think I read this from Wall Street Women's Forum,

542
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: and this was written about you. It says, utilizing her

543
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: artist development expertise to develop businesses and entrepreneurs, CC has

544
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: grown a portfolio of companies taking on varying degrees of

545
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: operational involvement. And I've referenced that because you said something

546
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: earlier regarding you know, changing from talent management to investment.

547
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: And so many of us, particularly career minded people, think

548
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: about they may be unhappy in what they're doing today,

549
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: they may want to do something else, and so many

550
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: of us think that we need to stop what we're

551
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: doing to do something else. You saw what you were

552
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: doing as elite as a launch pad to do what

553
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: you're doing now, How should we be thinking about reimagining

554
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: our activities and reimagining our skill sets to be able

555
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: to deploy them to different targets instead of leaving what

556
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: we're doing altogether to start something new.

557
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: That's a really good question, I think, you know, I

558
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: think about that word reimagining a little bit, and i've

559
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: word that I hear a lot, which is pivoting. I

560
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: think taking stock of the skill sets that you've already developed.

561
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: I think the idea of doing something new is really semantics. Right.

562
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: You're going to bring your experience from whatever you've been

563
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: doing into the next thing you do. There are very

564
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 2: few experiences sets that have no transferable skills. Right. So

565
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: when I say I went from talent management building living

566
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: brands into investing, because immediately you see the same thread

567
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: where entrepreneurs are like artists. Right, you're building their brands,

568
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: you're telling their stories, You're ensuring that they what they

569
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: want to put forward is also what the consumer understands,

570
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: creating that connective tissue that is consistent whether you're dealing

571
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: with music artists or you're dealing with entrepreneurs and new businesses.

572
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: Launching a new business in so many ways is super

573
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 2: similar to developing a new artist's career. And as soon

574
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 2: as I kind of understood that connective tissue because there

575
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: are so many familiar moments, it gives you a whole

576
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: other level of confidence. Right That's like, Oh, I'm not

577
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: switch in careers. I am taking everything I've built and

578
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: developed and learned and internalized, and I'm applying it to

579
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: a new uh industry, or I'm applying it to a

580
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: new position or a new career strategy. But I would

581
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: never say you're you know, You're never starting from scratch,

582
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: is what my point is, so really being able to

583
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: take stock of the amazing experience that you've already built

584
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: and think about how it translates into some of these

585
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: other areas.

586
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afrotech

587
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: in the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media,

588
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas.

589
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: The additional production support by Sarah Ragan and Rose McLucas.

590
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Mike and Davis, Vanessa Surround and

591
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: my Emoldru. Learn more about my casts and other tech

592
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: disruptors to innovators at afrotech dot com enjoy your black tech,

593
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: green money. Share us to somebody, go get your money.

594
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: Heakes some love