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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg pim L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether at the grocery store or

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Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg pm L podcast on iTunes,

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Speaker 1: SoundCloud and at Bloomberg dot com. Yahoo shares were down

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Speaker 1: more than six percent after Yahoo disclosed after hours on

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Speaker 1: Wednesday that cyber thieves in two siphoned information from more

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Speaker 1: than one billion Yahoo accounts, including users, email addresses, scrambled

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Speaker 1: account passwords, and dates of birth. In other words, all

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Speaker 1: the information that they could use to hack into other

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Speaker 1: areas and steal people's information and uh and possibly more.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring in Shia Overday, my fellow cad

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Speaker 1: Fly columnist here at Bloomberg, to give a sense of what, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who could have and should have done to prevent this

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Speaker 1: from growing into such an extensive problem? Sara, Could Yahoo

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Speaker 1: have done anything prevent this? Yeah? I mean the issue

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Speaker 1: is that some of this is ancient history, right. The

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Speaker 1: two now cyber attacks that Yahoo is disclosed in the

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Speaker 1: last few months affected more than a billion accounts and

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Speaker 1: then the one day disclosed in September a separate cyber

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Speaker 1: attack also from that affected more than five million accounts.

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Speaker 1: So in some sense this is a little bit old news,

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Speaker 1: but it's very clear from the two hacks, this is

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Speaker 1: a company that had a hard time, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: securing information on its users, and in some by some accounts,

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Speaker 1: they did things that bolstered its business that put its

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Speaker 1: user information in jeopardy and ignored warnings from whose own

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Speaker 1: security staff when they did things that that put the

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Speaker 1: information at risk. This also has created or highlights the

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Speaker 1: creation of a market for the stolen data. I understand

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Speaker 1: about the price tech about three hundred thousand dollars for

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Speaker 1: a complete set of this data that includes personal information,

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Speaker 1: as you said, sell security numbers, passwords. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: this is the scary thing, obviously for all of us

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Speaker 1: who live our lives online and have all this personal

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Speaker 1: data online, is that you know, there's a criminal enterprise

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Speaker 1: that makes money from selling stolen digital information to other

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Speaker 1: cyber thieves who can use it to kind of delve

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Speaker 1: deeper into our digital and physical lives. Ransomware, for example,

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Speaker 1: a recent I were just talking earlier this morning about

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Speaker 1: an attack that occurred in the San Francisco public transit

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Speaker 1: system at the end of November, where it was shut

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Speaker 1: down because thieves managed to get or hackers rather managed

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Speaker 1: to get into the electronic technology system. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: this is sort of a cost of doing business online, right,

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Speaker 1: is that cyber attacks and the consequence of cyber attacks

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Speaker 1: have become sadly in place. So Verizon has previously had

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Speaker 1: agreed to purchase uh Yahoo. Um, you wrote about how

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Speaker 1: this cyber fail could cut one billion dollars from the

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Speaker 1: price tag the Verizon was willing to pay for Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: Why would Verizons still want Yahoo given how tainted its

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Speaker 1: reputation has become. Yeah, that's a fair question. So just

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Speaker 1: to clarify, Verizon is is agreed to buy Yahoo's core

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Speaker 1: internet businesses. The weird thing about Yahoo is that the

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Speaker 1: majority of the company's market value is tied up in

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Speaker 1: these stakes. It owns in two independent internet companies, Ali

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Speaker 1: Baba of China and Yahoo Japan. So the core bits

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Speaker 1: of Yahoo, the parts of the company that we all know, um,

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Speaker 1: are the ones that Verizon has agreed to buy. Verizon's

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Speaker 1: logic here to do the deal hasn't really changed basically,

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Speaker 1: what they want to do is create um do two things.

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Speaker 1: One is to create a digital advertising company can be

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Speaker 1: a real kind of counterweight to Google and Facebook, which

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Speaker 1: right now dominate all of the advertising online more than

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Speaker 1: half of all advertising digital advertising in the US. The

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Speaker 1: dollars are collected by those two companies. So Verizon wants

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Speaker 1: to be a third player here. And Verizon also wants

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Speaker 1: content including all you know, Yahoo Finance and Yahoo Email

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Speaker 1: and other Yahoo websites that, while they're not as popular

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Speaker 1: as they used to be, still have hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of users every month. So they think the combination of

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Speaker 1: your Verizon cell phones and UH programming digital programming owned

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Speaker 1: by Yahoo and A O L and other Verizon assets

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Speaker 1: can be a real attraction to their to their mobile business.

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Speaker 1: One share, just quickly, you afraid of being hacked? Do

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Speaker 1: you put any personal information online? I have become super

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Speaker 1: paranoid about hacking. Yes, I not to invite any thieves,

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Speaker 1: but I am aware of clicking on any email. I

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Speaker 1: try not to start accounts with companies that I don't

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Speaker 1: trust online. Our row is basically a bunker. Yeah, firewalls

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Speaker 1: everywhere where. The row of paranoia, the row of paranoia,

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Speaker 1: that's a strange rink to it, but I guess it's

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Speaker 1: not going to be alone. Thank you very much. Shara

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Speaker 1: over there a Bloomberg gadfly, a technology columnist giving us

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Speaker 1: a lowdown on Yahoo. The US housing market took a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a breather this last month. Housing starts

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Speaker 1: in the United States housing Yes, new housing construction declining

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Speaker 1: more than a forecast. And here to tell us more

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Speaker 1: about the housing industry is the chief executive of Realty

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Speaker 1: Shares nav off Wall. No, thanks very much for coming in.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Pim and Lisa tell people what

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Speaker 1: is realty shares just before we get into details. Sure

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Speaker 1: Realty Shares is an online market place for real estate

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Speaker 1: investing in capital. We help individual high net worth investors

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Speaker 1: deploy capital into private real estate investments across the US.

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Speaker 1: We've helped raise over three million dollars of capital um

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Speaker 1: for these private deals and multifamily projects, single family projects,

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Speaker 1: and on the other end of our marketplace are underserved

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Speaker 1: borrowers and companies that are looking for more efficient ways

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Speaker 1: to raise capital or more cost effective capital and can

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Speaker 1: come to realty Shares and get financing in as little

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Speaker 1: as ten days, so really much more efficient than a

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Speaker 1: bank on the one hand, in a more direct way

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Speaker 1: to invest in real estate than a public on the

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Speaker 1: other hand. So here the peer to peer lender that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people think will take over the future

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Speaker 1: of lending, and I imagine that you're among those hoping

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Speaker 1: for that. I'm wondering from your perspective, have the applications

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Speaker 1: that have been coming in has it shown a deterioration

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Speaker 1: and consumer credit worthiness of late? We noticed in your

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Speaker 1: you mentioned in your notes that the pace of foreclosures

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Speaker 1: has ticked up a bit recently. Yeah, we've seen in

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Speaker 1: some markets the pace of foreclosure take up. There's been

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount home price appreciation UM over the last

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Speaker 1: five six years since the Great Recession, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's resulted in some consumers over leveraging themselves and markets

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Speaker 1: like Arizona, even in Denver, So there has been an

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Speaker 1: uptick in in UM foreclosures. But you're also seeing other

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Speaker 1: counterbalancing things and happening in the market. You're seeing the

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Speaker 1: n h B, which is the home builder UM home

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Speaker 1: Builder Index on on housing actually be much higher than

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Speaker 1: it was you know too three years ago, and hit

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Speaker 1: an all time high in September. So yeah, you are

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Speaker 1: seeing some deterioration um. And you're also seeing a drop

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Speaker 1: in just home buyer applications because of rising interests. Right,

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Speaker 1: so there's all kinds of crazy stuff happen. Well, I

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Speaker 1: want to pick up on that really quickly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think that the recent rise in UH mortgage

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Speaker 1: rates is going to substantially slow the market potentially put

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Speaker 1: a whole invaluations. I think the rise in interest rates

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Speaker 1: is definitely going to reduce the number of applications that

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Speaker 1: folks are filing for refinances and new home purchases. We

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Speaker 1: already saw a week over week decline of five and

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Speaker 1: a half percent for refinance and three percent for new

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Speaker 1: new home purchases. UM. So definitely it's gonna it's gonna

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Speaker 1: impact home buyer activity. But I think the bigger impact

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Speaker 1: is home prices um and just supply. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of supply constraint out there for new home purchases. So

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Speaker 1: despite rising in interest rates, I think those other factors

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Speaker 1: are going to be a bigger impact on the on

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Speaker 1: the home buying activity. Is that one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why you have raised money to do pre funded deals.

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Speaker 1: In other words, you're putting your own balance sheet to work. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we we really serve the non owner occupied borrowers. So

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Speaker 1: we serve investment borrows. We serve folks that are buying

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Speaker 1: real estate not to live in it, but to for

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Speaker 1: an investment purpose. And that part of the market's very

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Speaker 1: underserved by banks and private equity. So we're really focused

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Speaker 1: on that part of the market. But yes, a part

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Speaker 1: portion of the deals we do we pre fund on

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Speaker 1: our own balance sheet and then we'll then syndicate them

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Speaker 1: out on the marketplace to high net worth investors that

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Speaker 1: want to participate. We also have large institutions using the platform. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, coming out of the Great Recession, generating yield

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Speaker 1: has been very very differ coal. You have hedge funds

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Speaker 1: looking to you know, return their investors mid team returns,

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Speaker 1: and they can't do that in the bond market. So

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Speaker 1: we do have a wide variety of investors trying to

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Speaker 1: access an underserved part of the real estate capital markets.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty exciting um as as a fintech company right now.

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Speaker 1: Um I know that some of the more the larger,

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Speaker 1: more established fintech companies, peer to peer lenders have run

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Speaker 1: into a little bit of a pause in in their

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Speaker 1: growth trajectory. What have you experience when it comes to

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Speaker 1: fundraising and sort of people's skepticism around peer to peer

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Speaker 1: or acceptance of it. There's a tremendous amount of skepticism,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's healthy in any new industry. I

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Speaker 1: was at a conference with you with the ubs UH

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Speaker 1: the yesterday actually, and there was a half the room

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Speaker 1: was very bullish on the market, and that was the

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Speaker 1: you know, the maybe the younger population where you were

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Speaker 1: hanging out. But I like hanging around with the skeptics

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Speaker 1: because they bring a tremendous amount of really good information

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Speaker 1: because they've been there, they've done that, they've been in

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Speaker 1: the market for a while, and you know, it's healthy

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Speaker 1: to be skeptical of a new industry and technology. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it's really good to listen to the folks that

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Speaker 1: are skeptical and why they're skeptical. Obviously, I'm very bullish.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be running the company, um, but there's a

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Speaker 1: very large amount of skepticism still in this industry, and

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Speaker 1: we're just I think education is the best way to

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Speaker 1: deal with it. What's the specific skepticism about Well, I

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Speaker 1: think you know, people are thinking they equate this too. Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is going to lead to the next great recession.

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Speaker 1: It's like the savings and loan industry. So there's so

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Speaker 1: many analogies that are being used to describe peer to

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Speaker 1: peer lending. But I think the biggest thing that they

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Speaker 1: say is, you know, banks are they? They are they?

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Speaker 1: They already have this established base of customers. That's going

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Speaker 1: to be really hard for these lenders to compete for

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Speaker 1: the largest spend item for like a lending club is

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Speaker 1: acquiring customers right and banks already have these customers, and

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Speaker 1: they could at any point in time enter the market

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Speaker 1: and take market share away from these companies. But what

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Speaker 1: they don't realize is these tech companies are doing business

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Speaker 1: in a much more cost effective way, so they can

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Speaker 1: offer cheaper credit to otherwise capable borrowers with high ficos

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Speaker 1: because they have lower opera any costs. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's the answer I typically give is just there there

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Speaker 1: is a place for these lenders, and I think the

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Speaker 1: smart banks are finding a way to work with them

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Speaker 1: rather than to say you're just going to go away

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Speaker 1: in three to five years. Fascinating stuff. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. NAVAF Well, founder and chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of Realty Shares, which is based in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Really really great, Thank you so much. This is a

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Speaker 1: conversation I've been waiting to have. I want to bring

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Speaker 1: in Constance Hunter, Chief Economistic KPMGH. I'm particularly interested in China.

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Speaker 1: The bond market's been selling off. The People's Bank of

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Speaker 1: China has been pumping billions of dollars into the financial

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Speaker 1: system in the past few days in order to bolster

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Speaker 1: it as the currency continues to decline after the FED

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Speaker 1: rate height. Constants, can you explain why the People's Bank

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Speaker 1: of China I have found it necessary to pump so

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Speaker 1: much money into the economy in the immediate aftermath of

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Speaker 1: the Federate hike. Well, the China Chinese currency, the REM

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Speaker 1: and B is still largely pegged to the dollar. I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course they'll say it's it's a basket of currencies,

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Speaker 1: but the US dollar makes up a far larger portion

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Speaker 1: of the basket than any other currency. It means about

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Speaker 1: of the basket. So we're looking at a situation where

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Speaker 1: their policy is basically pegged to the U S policy,

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Speaker 1: and if the FED hikes rates um and they sterilize

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Speaker 1: that change, then they're basically experiencing a rate hike. And

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Speaker 1: what they're saying is, we're not quite ready for a

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Speaker 1: rate hike just yet, so we're going to increase money

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Speaker 1: supply constance. I wonder if you could tell us what

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Speaker 1: you believe that will have an effect on policy in

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Speaker 1: China as much as it depends on exports still to

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Speaker 1: power its economy. Yeah so, um, I mean, insomuch as

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Speaker 1: the Federate hike increase is the value of the dollar um,

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Speaker 1: and that the rem and by has also been falling,

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Speaker 1: that would actually help Chinese exports not just to the US,

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Speaker 1: but really to to other countries as well. Um. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: so we do see, we do see a somewhat neutral

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Speaker 1: to positive impact from from the weaker rem and by.

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Speaker 1: But but of course there's so many things happening right

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Speaker 1: now within the global economy um, and of course within

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Speaker 1: the within within the political economy. So when you think

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Speaker 1: about um some of the potential tax a lot changes

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Speaker 1: here in the US as well as as trump suggestion

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Speaker 1: that that he would slap tariffs on China if necessary

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Speaker 1: if negotiations didn't yield better access for US companies, then

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Speaker 1: we really have a lot more going on than just

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Speaker 1: the currency situation. You know, constance the idea that China

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Speaker 1: is burning through its foreign currency reserves. We saw the

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Speaker 1: data showing that they've sold a good proportion of their treasuries.

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Speaker 1: Their treasury holdings are now down to the lowest since

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Speaker 1: uh in more than six years, basically in order to

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Speaker 1: fortify to to have money to fortify their financial system.

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Speaker 1: Are we looking at a potentially risk your situation heading

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Speaker 1: into and is the potential for some sort of disorderly

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Speaker 1: unwind of of China's boom in the in the first

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Speaker 1: half of next year. So I think people have been

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Speaker 1: worried about this for for years, really that the unruly,

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Speaker 1: the hard landing versus the soft landing, the unruly unwind

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Speaker 1: um and so um. That isn't to say that it

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Speaker 1: couldn't happen next year, but this has been sort of

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Speaker 1: a lingering worry if you were out there looking for

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Speaker 1: things to be nervous about within the within the global economy.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I that I will say that that

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Speaker 1: I've heard anecdotally is a really big pickup in um

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Speaker 1: the amount of money that Chinese are really willing to

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Speaker 1: try to get out of the country. So the way

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Speaker 1: it works is there's a limit on how much each

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Speaker 1: individual can can take out of the country, and so

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Speaker 1: they're effectively or or what I would call money mules

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Speaker 1: that the people hire uh to to take out their

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Speaker 1: money and if if if it comes back to them

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Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, then great. But people recognize if that's

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Speaker 1: risky and the money could get stolen. But but when

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Speaker 1: I talk to wealthy Chinese, they are willing to take

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Speaker 1: that risk because they want to continue to get money

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Speaker 1: out of the country. And that is never really a

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Speaker 1: very good sign that there is faith in the in

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Speaker 1: the regime that's in power. So it's interesting to me

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Speaker 1: that while Shijipang has has consolidated and increased his power,

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Speaker 1: um you see this phenomenon from private citizens. Where is

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Speaker 1: much of that money going. Is it being invested in

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Speaker 1: places like Australia and the United States or in real estate?

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Speaker 1: In real estate it's been it's being it's being left

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Speaker 1: in cash in some cases, but real estate is a

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Speaker 1: very very popular investment and in Canada as well, in

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Speaker 1: Canadian real estate. So going forward, what are you watching?

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Speaker 1: What measures are you watching to figure out whether China

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Speaker 1: is managing their slowdown well or poorly. Well, it's not

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Speaker 1: so it's not so easy. Um. So for example, if

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Speaker 1: if I look at what I did, what I looked

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Speaker 1: at in the run up to the to the US

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Speaker 1: crisis and the UM and the bubble bursting here, we

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Speaker 1: had a lot of great data that the FED collects,

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Speaker 1: things like mortgage actually withdrawal statistics which really went through

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Speaker 1: the roof UM in the run up to the crisis here,

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Speaker 1: things like the rate of change of of leverage. So

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Speaker 1: we have some of that. We can see that the

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Speaker 1: corporate um borrowing is still continuing at very significantly high rates.

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Speaker 1: We can see that that remany loans are still increasing,

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Speaker 1: so we we have some data, but there's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of off balance sheet UM loans that are being created,

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Speaker 1: which is more difficult to track. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that I think is interesting with China if you look

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Speaker 1: at just something simple like their industrial production statistics. We

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Speaker 1: used to see double digit industrial production statistics and and

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Speaker 1: think that that was normal because China was playing catchup.

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Speaker 1: And now we look at the annual the year a

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Speaker 1: year industrial production, it's running in about six percent and

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Speaker 1: it has been for the last six months. So Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is this is definitely puts them in a different gear.

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Speaker 1: So whether or not they get that six point seven

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Speaker 1: percent growth next year, it really depends upon how stable

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Speaker 1: the economy is and and so things like industrial production

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Speaker 1: are are interesting to look at. If we see that

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Speaker 1: falling off, it's going to be a flag, a red

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Speaker 1: flag that the the economy is slowing more than they

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Speaker 1: intend constance. Uh, from the perspective of a US investor,

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Speaker 1: what assets are most vulnerable to a China slowdown? M

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Speaker 1: That is an excellent question. And you mentioned something earlier

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Speaker 1: which I think people worry about, but it perhaps is

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Speaker 1: an over over or unfounded fear, and that is their

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Speaker 1: US treasury holdings. So you you you noted a really

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Speaker 1: important fact, which is that the treasury holdings are at

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Speaker 1: the lowest they've been in six years. So this idea

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Speaker 1: that we're going to have a surge up and interest

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Speaker 1: rates when China um withdraw us their support of US treasuries,

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Speaker 1: that may have already happened, and that could be a

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Speaker 1: big contributing factor to the rising eels we've seen since

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Speaker 1: September and the hundred basis points we've seen since the election. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of other assets. Obviously real estate is

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Speaker 1: a big one. So if if the Chinese, if if

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Speaker 1: you really have UM a crash in China's economy, what

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Speaker 1: happens then is that value gets destroyed. So if you

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Speaker 1: have a bubble that's been fueled by debt, when that

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Speaker 1: comes home to roost and the debt is no longer good,

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Speaker 1: then there really is literally a destruction of cash, a

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Speaker 1: destruction of values. There would be less money to invest

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Speaker 1: in things like real estate and other assets. UM, those

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Speaker 1: other other assets like art wine, UM I would see

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Speaker 1: softness in those those markets as well. And then in

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Speaker 1: terms of forecasting, UM, where the softness comes within the

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Speaker 1: equity market that that is across the board. I mean

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Speaker 1: it would, it would. It would depend on individual stocks

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Speaker 1: and how much Chinese investment there is in them. Thanks

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Speaker 1: very much. Constance Hunter is the chief economist at a KPMG.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the questions that I have been wondering.

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Speaker 1: You know, President elect Donald Trump has taken to Twitter

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Speaker 1: with many different announcements of a variety of topics. UM.

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Speaker 1: The ones having to do with business, though, particularly targeting

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Speaker 1: companies such as boeing UM have had pretty substantial market effects.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring in Rob Trick and Elly, senior

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Speaker 1: legal editor for Bloomberg b n A, and with the

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Speaker 1: potential consequences of that could be Rob, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. So is this something? Is President

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Speaker 1: elect Trump's Twitter activity with respect to corporate America potential

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Speaker 1: I don't know, point of investigation for the SEC? He Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well thanks for having me first. I think, Um, there's

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Speaker 1: politics involved to write because if the SEC, uh would

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Speaker 1: investigate this, Um, you have to bear in mind that

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Speaker 1: the SEC chairman is someone that Donald Trump would have appointed,

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Speaker 1: and you know, so there is that to consider. But um,

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Speaker 1: there's there's really a lot here. Uh. Trump has said

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Speaker 1: he's sold all his stocks, so maybe he's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing for him personally, but maybe you would look

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Speaker 1: to what his if his you know, some of his

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Speaker 1: inner circle are trading on what they know he's about

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Speaker 1: to tweet. But I mean you can look at this

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Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. But from the SEC angle, Um,

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Speaker 1: they are interested in you know, if someone has a

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Speaker 1: duty to keep information confidential and not trade on it

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Speaker 1: and they breached that duty, the SEC is interested in

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Speaker 1: investigating that. Rob, If these tweets and these messages that

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Speaker 1: have made public were not being made public by either

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Speaker 1: the president elect or a top government official. What would

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Speaker 1: be the SEC stance on something that is moving markets

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Speaker 1: If somebody tweets something or says something in public and

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Speaker 1: it changes the value of a stock or or changes

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Speaker 1: the direction of the market, what would the SEC say, Well,

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Speaker 1: you would make an analogy to a company here for example.

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Speaker 1: So there are SEC regulations for public companies when they

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Speaker 1: introduce new information about what's going on with their business

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Speaker 1: that they kind of they have to make that information

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Speaker 1: public and kind of presented in a fair way for

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Speaker 1: for anyone to trade on it. And there are you know,

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Speaker 1: there are procedures regulating that for companies, and you also

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Speaker 1: have procedures regulating it for the government too, I mean

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Speaker 1: FED releases, SEC Enforcement actions, Bureau of Labor statistics data.

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Speaker 1: They all have to be presented in a way that

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Speaker 1: kind of everyone has access to it all at the

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Speaker 1: same time. And so if you start having these market

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Speaker 1: moving opinions behind closed doors but people know about it,

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Speaker 1: um that that can be problematic too. Is there any

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Speaker 1: precedent for this type of specific corporate UH discussions by

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Speaker 1: a president elect or a standing president? I mean has

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Speaker 1: there ever been a president that has specifically gone after

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Speaker 1: companies publicly about certain contracts and uh and policies and jobs. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean is this is there anything? Is there any

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Speaker 1: historical president whatsoever? Uh? Not recently. I mean you would

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Speaker 1: have to go back to UM. You know, maybe like

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Speaker 1: President Johnson would would would speak about you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of more you know, industry more generally or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's kind of unheard of in recent in

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Speaker 1: recent memory. And it's even if it if this were

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Speaker 1: a common practice, you know a long time ago, you know,

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Speaker 1: going after trusts or or something like that, you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with a very different universe now, just with all this

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Speaker 1: technology that allows you know, trading immediately and and this

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Speaker 1: kind of market moving information and so UM. This is

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Speaker 1: new in recent memory, and it is uncharted territory in

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Speaker 1: the sense that there's just so many technological and financial

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Speaker 1: um consequences that can that can come from it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it seems like in general, regulators right now want to

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Speaker 1: take the least political action as possible. We're seeing this

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Speaker 1: in a lot of different fronts. UM. That's at least

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Speaker 1: my impression that you just sort of is a desire

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Speaker 1: to sort of maintain common maintain a sense of an

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Speaker 1: orderly transition to the next presidential administration. Uh am, I

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Speaker 1: correct in that sort of sense, or or are there

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Speaker 1: signs that that people are embracing sort of a politicization, uh,

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Speaker 1: politicalization of the regulatory posts. I think what you're what

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Speaker 1: you're going to see is UM. Your intuition is right

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Speaker 1: that UM regulatory. A lot of regulatory enforcers don't like

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Speaker 1: to wade into political UM issues, and courts kind of

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Speaker 1: don't either, but we're seeing us. I would say one

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Speaker 1: of the first maybe cracks in that that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: is this week you had the you know, the Office

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Speaker 1: of Government Essex coming out and saying that, well that

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Speaker 1: there's this law called the Stock Act that prohibits UM

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Speaker 1: federal employees from trading on political intelligence on information they

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Speaker 1: get in the course of their duties. And this letter

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Speaker 1: is out saying that from from the office saying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump needs to divest or put everything in

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Speaker 1: a blind trust and uh. And you know that that

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Speaker 1: could foreshadow more of a regulatory appetite to examine these

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Speaker 1: conflicts of interest. Rob Trick and Elly, thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: senior Legal editor Bloomberg b n A and giving us

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Speaker 1: more details about President elect Donald Trump and the future

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Speaker 1: of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Thanks for listening to

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