1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and ten 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: that is first airing on September ten, twenty nineteen. Today 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: we're going to be interviewing Lisa Heffernan, who's the co 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: author of the book Grown and Flown, which is all 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,319 Speaker 1: about raising teenage children and emerging adults. So we're very 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: excited to talk with her learn more about her Facebook 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: community for Grown and Flown, which has one hundred thousand 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: plus members and is a great resource for any of 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: our listeners who have of adolescent children. Also really recommend 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: you check out the book as well because it is 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: out today, so that's always exciting and when we get 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: authors on their release date, and also just because it's 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: really helpful. I felt, as a parent of a you know, 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: twelve year old almost ten year old, we're getting into 24 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: this stage and so I've really learned a lot, and 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of resources out there for 26 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: parents of teens that are helpful. So I would highly 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: recommend that. I'm always fascinated by what's up ahead, Yeah, 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: exactly what's the future look like? And I also feel 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: like her Facebook group is like, I don't know, the 30 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: modern day baby center for the next generation, that probably 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: didn't have that when they were baby center because it 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: was like two two or a long time ago exactly 33 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: when these adolescent children were babies. But one of the 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: funny things that she talks about in her book and 35 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: talks about in the interview as well, is that you 36 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: know a lot of us have a tendency to sort 37 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: of bring our own high school and college experiences to 38 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: bear on our parenting of our own adolescent children, which 39 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: makes total sense because it's our experience, but in fact, 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: so much is different that a lot of this is 41 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily relevant. That she makes a point that people 42 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: who grew up when we did had sort of a 43 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: level of expected independence as we became emerging adults. That 44 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: maybe was an aberration in human history. If you think 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: about that, you know that certainly in the past people 46 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: would not have moved far away from their parents at 47 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: age eighteen and had, you know, ten minutes of phone 48 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: conversation once a week, which is about what I did. 49 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: How about you, Sarah, I think it was more than 50 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: ten minutes, but I do think it was once a week. 51 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: It was like Sunday, you call Sunday. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 52 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: So you know, since we our experiences aren't really relevant, 53 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: we thought, well, hey, in the intro, why don't we 54 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: talk about them? And then everyone else can take their 55 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: own trip down memory lane to take their own trip 56 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: down memory lane. So Sarah and I both you know 57 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: high school in the mid late nineties, right, And well, yes, 58 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: I started high school. Yeah, I graduated high school nineteen 59 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: ninety eight. You graduated in ninety seven, ninety seven. Yeah, 60 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: we overlapped by a lot. And yeah, were your college 61 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: apps mostly on paper or were they? I think I 62 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: feel like I was like Wright on the Cusp or 63 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of people. You couldn't really submit them online, 64 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: but you could like do them kind of online and 65 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: then print them out and the words would appear, and 66 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: it was kind of modern. And then other people were 67 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: using these like old school board processors to like type 68 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: directly on the forms, which I thought was stupid. I'm like, 69 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna write on the I had a typewriter. 70 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we used an electronic typewriter. I did some 71 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: of some of my essays with those oh oh yeah 72 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: for essays, but no, like there'd be like demographic forms 73 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: and people would type it instead of write it, which 74 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: was pain in the butt because you had to like 75 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: line up the spacing. I mean, oh my god, we 76 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: sounds super super old. Well that's the scale children these 77 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: days don't learn. It was a very boring and annoying. 78 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: And I did get help on my essay, Like I 79 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: wrote my essays, and then my father in particular would 80 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: kind of go through with a fine tooth comb looking 81 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: at grammar, saying, oh, this paragraph kind of goes on 82 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: for a while. And so I did have guidance there, 83 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: and I I don't remember who did most of the 84 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: management of all the kind of deadlines and things. Do 85 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: you me it was? It was one hundred percent me, 86 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: which it was good because of my personality. I was 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: already away at school at the point. I went to 88 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: a residential high school for my latter two years, and 89 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: so I was off on my own. I was going 90 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: to be the one doing them anyway. So I did 91 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: all the applications myself and manage the deadlines, and in 92 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: fact even wrote the checks for the application fees on 93 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: my own checking account, and my parents put money in 94 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: the account for me to do that way. It was 95 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: very impressive. But I think Josh describes a similar story 96 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: where he just kind of did it himself. I think 97 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: I had more help. I don't know, but I applied 98 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: to like seven places. I feel like kids apply to 99 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: more than the thing is. I mean, I think when 100 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: we did it, you had to do all of them right. 101 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: Like now, I think there's enough place to use that 102 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: common application where it's slightly easier to just like you know, 103 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: cut and paste and send to a lot of places 104 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: because that helps the number that people. Then by the 105 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: time I got to the medical school application process, there 106 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: was common apps, and meds school is also more competitive 107 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: than just getting into college, so I had that experience 108 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: of like just clicking on sixteen places or something and 109 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: then you know, you had to write a couple of supplements. 110 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: But that was it. So, Laura, you went to Princeton. 111 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: I got rejected from Princeton. So to anybody else listening 112 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: who's in that fun club, it's possible to still move on. 113 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: Can I tell you a really really quick, funny story 114 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: about this. So we were having a conversation. We were 115 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: over at my parents' house recently with my kids and Michael, 116 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: and then my parents were there and one of the 117 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: kids asked something about college and about you know, well, 118 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: what percent get into Princeton because we're in Princeton. My 119 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: parents live in Princeton now, and you know, I said 120 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: something like, oh yeah, it's like, you know, one in 121 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: ten or whatever, and to get me, Sam, my nine 122 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: year old, here's the thing is, but wait, mom, how 123 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: did you get in? Then I was like, that's so funny. 124 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: Thanks Sam. I'm glad that there is no part of 125 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: your mind that comprehends that mommy might be one in 126 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: ten on anything. Oh man, ouch ouch, No, I'm sure 127 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: I got rejected because I didn't have the perfect grades. 128 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: I was sort of I had great essayt scores and 129 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: was sort of selling myself on music, and I got 130 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: into a lot of good places, and I went to 131 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: Williams and yes, I don't think Williams is and it 132 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: was a slacker school. No, it wasn't a slacker not 133 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: most people's safety choice. And I was deciding between there 134 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: and Penn and decided I wanted to be significantly farther 135 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: from home because you up in the Philadelphia area, so 136 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: that would have had a different And how did you 137 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: pick Princeton? I picked Williams because I visited and was 138 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: like bathed in a warm, fuzzy glow of happiness because 139 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: it's like pretty and small collegy like looking right, It's 140 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: beautiful and everyone was nice, and I just felt really 141 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: good about it. Yeah, yeah, that's good. You know, Penn 142 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: campus is fine, but you are in the heart of 143 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: Philadelphia with all that all that entails, the Septa buses 144 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: going through and exactly, yeah, you know a little little 145 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: less of that. And did you visit Princeton before you 146 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: ended up going? Yeah, so my actually, my my brother 147 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: was a graduate student there, which is then the one 148 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: thing of my my sort of independent streak, which is 149 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: kind of funny, and that my parents actually didn't come 150 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: out with me when I moved in to Princeton. But 151 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: but the reason that worked is that my brother could 152 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: pick me up at the airport right like it was. 153 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: It was fine, so I brought my bags. I feel 154 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: like that's the airport cooler, like, oh, my older brother, 155 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: my older brother is gonna, you know, bring me to 156 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: bring me to school. But it's sort of you know, 157 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: this is one of these funny things like I'm not 158 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: sure how many parents don't go for that. But I'd 159 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: already moved into high school like two years before. We'd 160 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: had that experience, like you know, and my brother was there, 161 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: so there was there was no real point to But 162 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: it's interesting to hear Lisa say that that sort of 163 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: independent streak is sort of less part normal of how 164 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: people grow up, because I think it's become so much 165 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: more complicated, as we're about to hear. Well, now that 166 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,559 Speaker 1: we got our lovely stories out of the way, Memory Lane, 167 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: Memory Lane Late Nineties, we're so excited to welcome Lisa. 168 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: Sarah and I are excited to welcome Lisa Heffernan to 169 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: the podcast today. Lisa is one of the co found 170 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: of the Grown and Flown community, which focuses on children 171 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: and parents in the high school, college and beyond age group. 172 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: So Lisa, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners. 173 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to 174 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: be here today. I co founded a site which has 175 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: become an online community called Grown and Flown because my 176 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: co founder, Marydale Harrington, and I thought there wasn't enough 177 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: attention being paid to this very complicated, very consequential stage 178 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: of parenting. There was a lot of wonderful advice and 179 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: lots of websites out there for the earlier years, which 180 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: of course are important, but then when we get to 181 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the teen years, which actually research has shown is the 182 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: time we feel the least secure in our parenting, there 183 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: wasn't a lot out there. So we were looking for 184 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: to establish something where we could offer expert advice, not 185 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: us experts, and community. So that's what we are and 186 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: it's really grown quite a bit, right, I mean, there's many, 187 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: many thousands of people involved in it. Yeah. Our Facebook group, 188 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: which is sort of the heart of our community, has 189 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: about one hundred and twenty five thousand people in it 190 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: at the moment, and it goes up a couple of 191 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: thousand a week. So I think it's not so much 192 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: that we have the most wonderful community, though obviously I 193 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: think we do. It's that there aren't a lot of 194 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: resources out there, so people are finding us. Yeah, and 195 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: there's a great new book out today, as we mentioned earlier, 196 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: about Grown and Flown, So everyone's going to go check 197 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: that out, particularly our listeners with older children, but people 198 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: who are also entering that stage as well. So, you know, Lisa, 199 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: we have a general sense that many of our listeners 200 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: do have younger children, but they keep getting older as 201 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 1: we all do. How should we think about parenting evolving 202 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: as children turn into teenagers? You know, I thought of 203 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: parenting with my own I have three twenty somethings now 204 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: as sort of one long handoff from the first day 205 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: until this day, because although they're in their twenties, were 206 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: very much involved as parents in their lives of each time, 207 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: giving them more and more control, more and more autonomy, 208 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: each day, each week, each school year for their lives, 209 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: so there isn't a particular milestone. I take a lot 210 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: of issue with these posts that say by sixteen year 211 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: kids should do this or by eighteen year kids should 212 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: do this, because they're all on very very different timelines 213 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: that worked for us. When you kids should walk at 214 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: a certain age and they do sit up at a 215 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: certain age and they do. You know, early milestones are 216 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: easier to clock, but these later milestones are not easy 217 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: to clock. Forward, practice is what we're looking for. More 218 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: and more autonomy. More and more they're taking control, us 219 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: taking less control and moving into that mentor role with them. Yeah. 220 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: And one of the points you make in the Ground 221 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: and Flow in book is that adolescents and the college 222 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: years are all quite different now than when most of 223 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: us were growing up, and even those of us who 224 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: may have had children in our twenties, so we're not 225 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: that much older than them, but there's still enough of 226 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: a gap that some of the things we thought of 227 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: as critical and our advice and our experiences may be 228 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: less helpful to them. Can you talk a little bit 229 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, there's a lot of amazing research which 230 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: we put into the book about how the relationship between 231 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: teens and their parents and young adults and college students 232 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: and their parents is fundamentally changing. We are much closer 233 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: to them than we were to our own parents. We 234 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: communicate with them more, they value our opinion more, they're 235 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: more likely to ask us about their romantic life. They're 236 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: more likely to ask us about money, jobs, their college experience. 237 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: They're more likely to talk about with us the most 238 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: important things in their lives, where we may have talked 239 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: to our peers who frankly knew no more than we 240 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: did about any of these subjects. So I see this 241 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: as a good thing as long as, as I mentioned, 242 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: we're in that mentoring role, not in that telling them 243 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: what to do. Role. Yeah, because telling people what to 244 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: do has through human history never worked all that well well. 245 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: And as you said, as we're trying to foster independence, 246 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: if you kind of stick to the same pattern you 247 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: need when a child is very young and you're and 248 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: they expect to be told what to do, then you know, 249 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: when does that end? So I think that's so interesting 250 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: and definitely consistent with what I have observed in my 251 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: medical practice with my adolescent patience. The research is showing 252 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: we're all much closer as families. Some of this is 253 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: you just maybe the way we've evolved. We cite the 254 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: research of a woman named Karen Fingerman, who's professor at 255 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: University of Texas, who talks about the fact that it 256 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: may have been that the period from the sort of 257 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century to the end of the twenty 258 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: century was more of an aberration that the notion that 259 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old would go off and run their 260 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: own life and call you once a week for fifteen minutes. 261 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: Maybe that wasn't such a great idea. And when you 262 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: look at the data, those of us who found independence 263 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: in those years, we weren't such a well behaved generation. 264 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: The young adult teenagers and young adults now have lower 265 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: drug use, less drinking, less binge drinking. Really critically, they 266 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: have less sexual activity at younger ages. They have fewer 267 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: sexual partners, they have more protected sex, which all, when 268 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: you add those things up, you get less unwanted pregnancy. 269 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: So all in all, we are raising a better behaved 270 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: generation than we were. And some of that I think 271 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: is because of our involvement in their lives as a 272 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: positive force. Yeah, fascinating. You don't think it's because they're 273 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: just on their phone instead. There is that theory. There 274 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: is that theory. Yes, Now, when you can communicate with 275 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: people via phone, you who don't have to be there 276 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: in person, and teenagers do all sorts of things when 277 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: they're they're in person, with each other. We cited a 278 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: study in the book where they found that freshmen drank 279 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: less alcohol on days when they spoke to their parents. 280 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: Whether or not alcohol was a subject in the conversation, 281 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: just the presence of parents and reminding, jogging their memories 282 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: of the things that we have set up as a 283 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: values which have not been drinking impacted their behavior. Yeah, well, 284 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: that's very heartening to hear. In particularly is my children 285 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: approach adolescence. So it's great to hear that so much 286 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: is going well. But I'm sure there are plenty of 287 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: mistakes that are made. To what are the biggest mistakes 288 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: parents make kids start entering the teen years. The biggest 289 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: mistake we make, I think, is bringing our preconceived notions 290 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: of our own adolescents and the world we grew up 291 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: in and the people we became to their lives. So 292 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: much of what they are going to experience is so 293 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: completely foreign to us. Part of ASCAZA social media. Part 294 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: of it is because of their relationship with us changing. 295 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: Part of it is just because of the technology and 296 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: the phone in their hand. So it's very easy to 297 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: think to yourself something like I read every night when 298 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: I went to bed, my kids should read every night 299 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: when they go to bed. That's a laudable goal. That 300 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: would be grid. I would have loved that, But they're 301 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: in a different world. I did not have a phone 302 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: in my hand, and frankly, had I had a phone 303 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: in my hand, I would have been on that every night. 304 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: So it's super important for us not to bring our 305 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: world into their world and not to say the words 306 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: I hear people parents saying that really trouble me. Are 307 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: you know you shouldn't have to do this. It shouldn't 308 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: be like this. It is like this. They're in the 309 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: world that they're in, and we need to parent for today, 310 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: not for the nineteen nineties or the nineteen eighties when 311 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: we were teenagers. Excellent advice. We're going to pause for 312 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: just one minute to have a word from our sponsors, 313 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: and we'll be back with Lisa. I've been intrigued with 314 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: Lola for quite some time. I love their modern approach 315 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: to feminine care. 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Right, Lisa, part of adolescence, even 365 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: if you know, kids and parents are a lot closer 366 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: to each other these days than they were. I mean, 367 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: part of adolescents growing up is that they are going 368 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: to separate themselves from their parents emotionally, physically, doing things 369 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: from themselves. So naturally there's going to be some conflict 370 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: as they exert more of their own desires. And one 371 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: of the parts I loved about your book, and I'm 372 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: hearing from you that other people have been seizing on 373 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: this too, is you had a list of ten things 374 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: to do with your team when they are barely speaking 375 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: to you, can you talk about those ideas and how 376 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: we can manage conflict with our adolescence in general? Yeah, 377 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they're not speaking to you because they're 378 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: just angry that you even exist. Sometimes they're not speaking 379 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: to you because of disappointments in their own life and 380 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: they just don't want to talk. I have three sons. 381 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes they weren't speaking to me because they were simply 382 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: monosyllabic and whatever was happening on their phone was a 383 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: lot more interesting than I am. So the thing that 384 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: we had a list of ten things that you can do, 385 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: and they kind of they can all be boiled down 386 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: to one thing, which is do something, get an activity going, 387 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: and particularly something that brings you back to that place 388 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: where things were a lot better. So go out first, 389 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: or make one of their favorite foods, whether it's you know, 390 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: pulling them into the kitchen with you, or going out 391 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: to that favorite you know, burger joint that always they 392 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: always loved when they were that age. Go get something 393 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: to eat. Food is a great way to reconnect. Watch 394 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: a movie. I know that they may not talk, but 395 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: once you find particularly I used to make my kids 396 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: watch movies from the eighties and the nineties which they 397 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: hadn't seen, so it was like, you've got to like them. 398 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: They did, They did. Yeah, yeah, we had to get 399 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: through all the Robert Redford movies. At one point they're like, Mom, 400 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: he's so old. No, no, you have to watch He 401 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: wasn't always old exactly. So you know, put up a 402 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: movie they've never seen, make them sit down on the 403 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: couch with you. Slowly, the conversation may evolve music, same thing. 404 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: Put on some music that you can connect over. Kids 405 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: love eighties musics. Now who knows what, but they love 406 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: eighties music. Probably by the time we have kids, the 407 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: love early os and music. Like there's this this woman 408 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: known as Britney Spearit shoes. You ever hear of her mom? 409 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Run an errand. You know, every kid needs new socks, 410 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: new underwear, new you know some errand in your life 411 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: that needs to be done. Get in the car, get 412 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: them moving. You know. The tendency is to want to 413 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: sulk in their bedroom and not speak to you. Just say, look, 414 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: you need X, Y and Z. I know we can 415 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: order it on Amazon. We're running to the shop and 416 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: picking it up, grocery shopping, that sort of thing. So 417 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: it's a lot about getting them moving, getting them distracted, 418 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: getting them reconnected to you on something that they used 419 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: to connect with you, on something that your family loved 420 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: and something that had meaning to you. So that was 421 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: that's where the list came from. And did you find 422 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: this out on your own through trial and error. I'm 423 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: very curious how this parenting technique came to you. I did. 424 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: I did. With teenagers, it's all about distraction. It's all 425 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: about getting them off of that thing that they're that annoying, 426 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: horrible thing that happened at school today that's really bringing 427 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: them down. And I don't mean to belittle it, because 428 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: it's important, it matters and it impacts them. Just getting 429 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: their mind off of it and getting them to reconnect 430 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: with you around one of these other things and then 431 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: making it Sometimes you know, things just need to pass 432 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: in their lives. Well, this too shall pass is probably 433 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: a good phrase for parenting in general. And that's one 434 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: of the things that teenagers don't always know of course, 435 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: right is that whatever is bothering them right now is 436 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: not eternal and probably won't even remember XYZ's person name 437 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: in like two years. But you know, with these emotional 438 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: challenges romantic friend wise or getting cut from a team, 439 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: not getting into a certain program, not getting into a 440 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: certain college. You also had a list in the book 441 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: of things to say to a kid whose heart is breaking, 442 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: and I thought this was really a wise list as well. 443 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: What are some good calming things parents can say if 444 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: children in our seeking sort of advice reassurance with one 445 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: of these conflicts that they're experiencing with their peers or 446 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: in their situation. You know, sometimes that does appointment can be, 447 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: as you said, like a romantic heartbreak, and these things, 448 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: as we all remember from being that age, can be devastating, 449 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean really excruciating the moment. But sometimes that disappointment 450 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: is losing a friend that you know, a non romantic friend, 451 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: or as you say, getting cut from a team or something. 452 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: So I think the place to start is to remind 453 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: them that you do understand and that you want to listen. 454 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: Some kids will go into that monoslabic state that we 455 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: were just talking about. Some literally just want to pour 456 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: it out to you. Lisa de Moore calls this taking 457 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: the emotional trash out or dumping their emotional trash on you. 458 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes the biggest function you can serve is to allow 459 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: them to literally dump it all on you. You're the adult. 460 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: You can put it in perspective, You understand that this 461 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: is a moment in time, and then that frees them 462 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: up to move forward. Just just that simple act of 463 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: being able to dump that on the person who will 464 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: take anything from you your parent allows them to move on. 465 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: But other things we can remind them of is that 466 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: this won't last forever. It's very hard for a teenager 467 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: to understand and remember that. I remember being a teenager 468 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: and thinking that was so hard. Asking them whether they 469 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: want to try something again? So, is this a relationship 470 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: you never want to go back to, or is it 471 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: something you might try again? Do you want to try 472 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: out for the jv team? If the varsity team didn't 473 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: work out, so do you want to go back into 474 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: those waters and make another attempt. You could also ask 475 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: them whether this is something they want to try something else, 476 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: so you know, if the team didn't work out and 477 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: it was heartbreaking, that's what they had their sight set on, 478 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: maybe there's something else that they want to try. Maybe 479 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: there's something that would be good for them at the moment. 480 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: It's really important not to bad mouth whatever they did, 481 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: because we all remember that boyfriend that we were going 482 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: to hate forever and then we got back together again with. 483 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: So you don't want to be that parent who weighed 484 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: in and a really negative way from whatever whatever was 485 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: breaking their heart. Well that and it would just minimize 486 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: their pain, right because if you're like oh good. It's like, well, 487 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: then you haven't connected with their emotions at all, and 488 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: it's not good for them at all, and they're suffering 489 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: so exactly exactly, you know, asking them whether they really 490 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: just completely want to move on from something, and then 491 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: working out and listening with them for a plan to 492 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: do that. Sometimes the moment is so emotional they can't 493 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: think literally into you know, sort of next steps, and 494 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: you can be that voice of reason to talk about, well, 495 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: where are you going to go from here? What are 496 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: we going to do now? And then just reminding them 497 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: that you love them. If this leaves your feelings and 498 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: your family unaltered and undiminished, sometimes, you know, kids can 499 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: feel when you're rejected by in a romantic interest, you 500 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: can feel so diminished, and parents can help counteract some 501 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: of that feelings. No, that's wonderful. We talked a little 502 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: bit about a month ago with your community on time 503 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: management for teens. But I know this is a topic 504 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: that a lot of parents are thinking about. You know, 505 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: you sort of manage your children's time more when they're little, 506 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: but as they get to be older, they need to 507 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: learn these skills themselves. What are some of the things 508 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: you recommend for parents helping out with children learning these skills. 509 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: So I am the mom of a kid who had 510 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: deeply impaired time management skills. So everything I know about 511 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: this subject I've learned from reading your books, Laura, and 512 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: from my own experiences with a teenager and then young 513 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: adult who really struggled with managing his time. So I 514 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: think the most important thing here is to find a 515 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: tool that works. So we tried small pieces of paper 516 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: folded up into his pocket. Now, strangely I watched a 517 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: lot of those. We tried apps on his phone that 518 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,959 Speaker 1: also didn't work because he would deliberately not look at 519 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: the app, or he would put his phone in his 520 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: pocket and he just wouldn't. Oh, that surprises me. But 521 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: if that Google calendar was going to be the answer, Okay, 522 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: I know what worked. It didn't work so well for him. 523 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: But the thing that actually ended up working for this 524 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: particularly boy was a large whiteboard hung over his desk 525 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: at our house with every single thing he had to 526 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: do and every single day things were due because he 527 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: had a strong ability to lie to himself about how 528 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: much time he had left and how much time something 529 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: would take. The point here isn't to get a whiteboard, 530 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: because that will not work. The point is to find 531 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: the thing that works for your kid, because it will 532 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: be different for every kid. Some kids seem to have 533 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: just an innate ability to manage their responsibilities. Some kids 534 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: had deeply impaired abilities that really don't come into the 535 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: fore until college. So you need to help them find 536 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: the thing that will help compensate for their inability. You're 537 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: not going to mean the temptation for me was to 538 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: become that thing, for me to become Google Calendar, for 539 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: me to become the reminder. And I would lie if 540 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: I that I never did that, because I certainly did 541 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: do that. But the solution is to find the technique 542 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: that works for them and then make them stick with it, 543 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: or remind them to stick with it. I know you 544 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: said the whiteboard wouldn't work for everyone, but I actually 545 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: bet it would work for a significant chunk. So it's 546 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: a great idea. Well, the whiteboard had the because it's 547 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: in your face. It was in his face, which was great, 548 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: but it was also something I could see. So when 549 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: he said I have nothing, no, no, mom, I have 550 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: nothing I have to do, which was almost a daily 551 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: event in our house, I would be like, have you 552 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: looked at that. That is not nothing. Do you see 553 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: those projects that are doing two weeks? So it helped 554 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: me not have to say, what do you have to do? 555 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: What do you have to do? Do you have work? 556 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 1: Do you have work? It took away some of the nagging, 557 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: which is ideal. Totally cool, Laura, Should we take a 558 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: segue into college admissions land? I know we maybe avoiding that, 559 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: but I'm sure our listeners are quite interested in what 560 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: can be said about Yeah, Lisa, I mean, obviously this 561 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: is a huge concern for the people in this demographic, 562 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: parents with high schoolers and possibly parents with middle schoolers too, 563 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: and we're all hearing the ridiculousness in the news these 564 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: day about college admissions. So when should we start thinking 565 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: about this and how much should parents be driving this 566 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: versus kids. Let's just give give our listeners your expert 567 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: advice on how we should think about this. So I 568 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: want to qualify this by saying the book is full 569 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: of expert advice from people who are experts. I am not, 570 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: but I will give you one mom's one mom's view 571 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: from having watched a community of tens and even hundreds 572 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: of thousands of people go through this parents can start 573 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: thinking about this quite early because this is an enormous 574 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: financial commitment for all of our families. So if you, 575 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: as a parent with an eighth grader or a ninth grader, 576 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: want to start looking at financial aid merit aid money 577 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: that's available, figuring out how your family is going to 578 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: make this work financially, that is not a bad thing. 579 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: That is a very good thing because this is going 580 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: to involve some planning on every family's part on how 581 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: you're going to pay for one or even two or 582 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: three children to go to college. That should not involve 583 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: your child when they're seventeen. You can talk to them 584 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: about the money aspect of it. A fourteen year old 585 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: has no way of putting that into context, while a 586 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: family does need to plan for that. My strong view, 587 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: and this is again one mom's opinion, is that kids 588 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't start thinking about college seriously until eleventh grade. You 589 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: should be telling them you need to worry about your grades. 590 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: You need to involve yourself in your activities and whatever 591 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: you do with your time that is part of your 592 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: life and will be part of your college application. You 593 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: need to keep your behavior as good as it can 594 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: possibly be, because bad behavior gets noted on a college application. 595 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: But you do not need to worry about college if 596 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: you do all of those things. And there's some standardized 597 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: tests sometimes that tenth graders will encounter, certainly the PSAT 598 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: and sometimes they take some of the other tests early. 599 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: If you worry about those things, tests, your activities, your academics, 600 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: you're doing your job as a kid. In eleventh grade, 601 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: you can start looking at colleges with kids. And the 602 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: reason I say this so emphatically is first, once your 603 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 1: family starts talking about college, it will be in the conversation. 604 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: It comes into your house, it doesn't leave again. Second 605 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: of all, I feel really, really strongly that high school 606 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: has to be about high school. We only walk that 607 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: road once. It's an important part of all of our lives. 608 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: We all remember high school. It looms larger than it should. 609 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: But it's knowing that we need to make the high 610 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: school experience about high school, not the high school experience 611 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: being about college. But the third thing is it's changed 612 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: so much so I always hear people taking their fifteen 613 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: year olds on college visits and to see colleges and 614 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: they say, oh, we just want to start now. Your 615 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: fifteen year old has no idea, what they want to do, 616 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: they're going to change three times. You will have wasted 617 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: your time, You will have wasted their time, and they 618 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: should have just been enjoying high school. Your sixteen year old, 619 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: your seventeen year old has got a better idea and 620 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: needs to start getting a clearer picture. So I'm kind 621 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: of emphatic about it. Eleventh grade is the time for 622 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: the kids to jump in. The parents should jump in 623 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: earlier around the money question, and if you have multiple 624 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 1: kids that are close in age, you recommend only taking 625 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: one in a time drag the fifteen year old on 626 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: the seventeen year olds tours what you're saying. So I 627 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: have that my older kids are very close knit when 628 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: you're partner age. I only did that when it involved 629 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: an airplane flight a couple of times, just because I 630 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: thought I'm not doing this again. But yes, in general, yes, 631 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: because by and large, most kids are going to be 632 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: looking at different schools, and you really don't want that 633 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: second child's opinion of a school to be colored by 634 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: their older siblings. Feel of it. When you're the older 635 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: sibling says oh, look at this, look at that, and 636 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: the younger sibling might have otherwise thought, Wow, this place 637 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,239 Speaker 1: is incredible. You don't want that older siblings way way 638 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: too large and their younger siblings' lives already. Yeah, that 639 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: can definitely be the case. So Sarah had some questions 640 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: about work. Yeah, I know, you know, as everyone is 641 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: so admissions focused, and I know what certain parents try 642 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: to get, you know, these I don't know, sort of 643 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: paid experiences on their kids resume, like hop pre college 644 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: programs or even perhaps sometimes I see service trips, which 645 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: actually is kind of cool, But then sometimes when you 646 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: dig deeper, it's like you wonder how much service actually 647 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: went on during these trips, And I feel like fewer 648 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: and fewer of my patients are actually taking jobs for pay, 649 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: when in some ways that might be seen as something 650 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: that would really build character and maturity and independence, not 651 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: to mention start like their own mini maybe college expenses 652 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: fund or something like that. Do you see a trend 653 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: away from that? Do you feel like that can if 654 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: someone finds a job that they're passionate about, maybe they're 655 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: working at a camp and I love working with kids, 656 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: can that actually help them long term in terms of 657 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: college admissions. Yes, I think You've got this exactly right. 658 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: So I've interviewed a lot of directors of admissions. I 659 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: work also as a freelance journalist and have written a 660 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: bunch of pieces around this topic. And one of the 661 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: things you do hear them say over and over again 662 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: is they don't care about paid experiences. It doesn't enhance anything. 663 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: The fact that your parents could send you on an 664 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: expensive trip to Central America is not in any way 665 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: impressive to an admissions officer. The fact that you help 666 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: in your own community amongst people who live near you 667 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: and come into your daily life. Mostly, I think they 668 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: find that more impressive. Getting a job. They all say 669 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: getting a job is exactly what they're looking for teenagers 670 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: to do. You know, it used to be that teenagers 671 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: could pay for college or summer jobs. That's virtually impossible now. 672 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: But the fact that you are working towards that, saving 673 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: money towards college, you write that down. That's why I worked. 674 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: I'm helping my parents pay for this matters much more 675 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: to college admissions advisors. Sorry, officers. Yeah, and I do 676 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: love the idea of a kid. Obviously, the tuition itself 677 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: is not going to be doable, but perhaps they could 678 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: pay for some of their spending money. I want to 679 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: make the experience feel earned and precious to my kids. 680 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: I don't want them to take it for granted. I 681 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: don't know if that was true for me when I 682 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: pretty much had everything paid for. And I just think 683 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: that a nice way to do that would be to 684 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: put them in charge of some very small but meaningful responsibility. 685 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right. And if there is something 686 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: that they're super interested in, so I'll give you an example. 687 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: One of my sons is very interested in a specific 688 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: kind of art, and one summer he got an apprenticeship 689 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: working for an artist, doing something repetitive over and over again, 690 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: day in day out. But I think that's the kind 691 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: of thing that college admissions people want to say, here's 692 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: a kid who has an interest, here's a kid who 693 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: found somebody who does that begged him to take him on. 694 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: And even though the job was repetitive day in and 695 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: day out and there was nothing glamorous at all about 696 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: what he was doing, it gave him exposure to something 697 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: that he had a demonstrated interest in. Totally cool. Yeah, 698 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: maybe if you're that kid who just won three million 699 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: dollars on the Fortnite World Championship, then you can pay 700 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: for your tuition if he even bothers to go. At 701 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: this point, Sarah and Sarah had one final question about 702 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: the whole push and full Well, I'm extrapolating back to 703 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: my much younger children. My oldest is seven, and you know, 704 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: college which is many years away. But sometimes when I 705 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: see the mindset of some of my fellow's second grade parents, 706 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 1: I wonder exactly what they're thinking, like, oh my god, 707 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: if I don't like do my kids homework for them, 708 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: then it's all gonna it's all over, no, sir, the 709 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: second grade. So I guess I was just wondering if 710 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: you had tips on when and when not to push 711 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: and when to kind of step back and let them 712 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: fail independently. Like I wouldn't want to let them fail 713 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: to turn in their applications on time as a twelfth grader, right, 714 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: that would probably be a bad time to let the 715 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: chips fall where they may. Maybe someone with really radical 716 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: views might feel differently, But you know, there are a 717 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: lot of gray areas there, sore where what are your 718 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: tips in that realm? This is the hardest question. I'm 719 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: glad you saved it for last. So there are people 720 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: who say, you know, my kid filled out all their 721 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: college applications themselves. I didn't help them at all. It 722 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: is a very complex process. If a kid is looking 723 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: at lots of different schools, there's lots of different dates. 724 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: Each school wants something different. I here's where I come 725 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: out on this. Using something like that not as a 726 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: way to let them fall on their face, but as 727 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: a way to teach them how to manage a large, 728 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: complex process with lots of different due dates and lots 729 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: of different moving parts in their lives. When they do 730 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: a job search or when they're some aspect of their job, 731 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: they will have processes like this they've never done before. 732 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: So I'm going to use this as an example. You 733 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: have a seventeen year old who's never managed to process 734 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: this complex. You can either say to them, it's on you, 735 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: baby boy, you know, win or lose. Or you can say, 736 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about how you might organize this in such 737 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: a way that you can do this. And that goes 738 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: down to earlier kids. You while it's tempting to let 739 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: them fail, and you know, let them learn from the 740 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: consequences of their failure, and there are many times you 741 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,919 Speaker 1: should do that. So many of these things are teaching experiences, 742 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: teaching opportunities. There are times that you can show them, 743 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: you know what, you forgot to do your homework, Let's 744 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: think about ways that you're going to remember. Let's think 745 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: about things that you can do. So I'm not such 746 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: an advocate of failure as using each of these challenges 747 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: in their lives as a way to teach them yet 748 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: another new skill. You would be hard pressed to teach 749 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: a fourteen year old how to manage the admissions process. 750 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: It's very complicated for a kid who's that age. For 751 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: seventeen or eighteen year old, it's becoming manageable. And so 752 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: I looked at each of these as not a chance 753 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: to get my kids to fail, but as a chance 754 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: to give them some life lesson that they were going 755 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: to use further on. Well, that's a wonderful approach in general. So, Lisa, 756 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: we always end our segments with a love of the week. 757 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: So this is something that is really cool for us 758 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: right now. Of course this is airing in the beginning 759 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: of September. The book is just out today, I think, 760 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: but we do a love of the week, so something 761 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: that's exciting for us, and we can go first, so 762 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: you could share yours after you've heard ours. It doesn't 763 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: have to be related to anything else you've talked about today, Sarah, 764 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: what do you have for us my love of the 765 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,479 Speaker 1: week as I am trying to find out on this page. 766 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: Oh yes, so it is a school themed love of 767 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: the week. We invested in one of the more expensive 768 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: electric pencil sharpeners on Amazon a couple of years ago, 769 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: and man, that thing is awesome. It never breaks, it 770 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: takes every pencil, it's super fast, and it isn't heavy use. 771 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: Because both my kids' homework often require colors these days, 772 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: and we found colored pencils much less messy than crayons. 773 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: I just love that thing. Yeah, that's I may need 774 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: to look into that, because I would say all of 775 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: my pencil sharpeners have been total crap. So I don't 776 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: know why my shopping ability there is completely awful. But 777 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: so I would say that my love of the week 778 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: is having all my family because I know this is 779 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: going to happen this week when this is airing, all 780 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: my family goes to the dentist at the same time, 781 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: and this has just been extraordinarily convenient. I have it 782 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: on the calendar, but the four kids, my husband you know, 783 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: everyone at the same time. They have enough hygienists to 784 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: sort of you know, rotate you in so pretty quick. 785 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: I you know, I kind of like to go on 786 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: my own, separately from everyone. This is this is, this 787 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: is in Michael's camp. But you know it's great. I 788 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: may I may go out for breakfast while the rest 789 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: of them are at the dentists. We'll see how this, 790 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: how this plays out. But that's that's my love of 791 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: the week. So I have two, but you can you 792 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: can tell me I can only have one? Did okay? Good? 793 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: So this is late August when we're speaking, and we 794 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: have a few fruit trees at our house, and one 795 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: of my kids bought a dehydrator, so lots of fruit 796 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: falls on the ground and we're trying to like eat 797 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: it as fast as we can and give it away 798 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: as fast as we can, and suddenly we're dehydrating it 799 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: and putting it into containers. So even if you don't 800 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: have fruit trees, this is obviously the most amazing time 801 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: of the year to buy fruit. All those things that 802 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: we love are fresh right now, and all the amazing 803 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: apples are about to come. If we live in the northeast, 804 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: so all the amazing apples are about to come into 805 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: the stores. So it turns out you can dehydrate them 806 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: in your home. We bought this thing at Target. It 807 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: wasn't very expensive. My second love of the week is 808 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: I've been listening through jes Lahy and kJ de Antonia's 809 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: am writing podcast hashtag I'm Writing. We love that podcast. Yeah, 810 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: hej it's been a guest here, has she? Okay, I've 811 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 1: been binge listening to jessin kJ and I cannot recommend 812 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: it highly enough. Yeah, they've got a great chemistry. So 813 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 1: those are both awesome love of the weeks. Well, Lisa, 814 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, and just remind 815 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: listeners about your book again. So a book is coming 816 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: out this week. It's called Grown and Flown. You can 817 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: buy it everywhere where books are sold independent bookstores, Amazon, Barnes, 818 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: and Noble, and it's really aimed at parents. The book 819 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: sort of starts with fourteen fifteen year olds, but even 820 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: if you have a thirteen year old, I think you'll 821 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: find it interesting and goes up through the college years. 822 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: Well that sounds wonderful. Well, thanks again for joining us. 823 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Thank you. Well, that was a wonderful 824 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: interview Lisa is Great. So now our Q and a segment. 825 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: This question comes from a listener who says she listens 826 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: to the podcast regularly. We love that she says, I 827 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: have a question. My husband and I have one child, 828 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: and we're thinking about expanding our family in the future. 829 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: I really like the process of work and using my 830 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: mind in an adult way. However, sometimes I find it 831 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: difficult to get over the fact that much of my 832 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: salary goes into paying for our son's daycare, and obviously 833 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: we'll be more with multiple children. I know this isn't 834 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: necessarily a helpful or productive way of thinking about things, 835 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: but I constantly feel the push pull of maybe I 836 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: should just stay home because it's more economical. I realized 837 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: this is probably shortsighted, given that I need to think 838 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: about my lifetime earning potential, not just the current cost. 839 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: But I'd love to hear your advice as to how 840 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: to get out of this mindset. Well, this is definitely 841 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: a question that a lot of new parents come to, 842 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: and particularly as you think about expanding your family from 843 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: one to more children. But the first thing I mean 844 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: I always want to say is that it's a shared expense, right, 845 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: this is not why is it against one party's income. 846 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: I don't understand that because your husband is probably not 847 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: saying I mean, maybe he earns ten times what you do, 848 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: and that's why you're not thinking about it with him, 849 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: like he's the obvious one who'd be working. But usually 850 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: that's not the case. Usually people are slightly more within 851 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: the same range. And so in that case, like I 852 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: don't think he's sitting there calculating, well, you know this 853 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: daycare is this percentage of my income. So I don't 854 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: know that you necessarily need to either that this is 855 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: if you only look at half of it, it's a 856 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: lot more reasonable. I totally agree. I mean, this is 857 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: definitely a perennial question, and I think there's also some 858 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: interesting financial angles to think of as well. For example, 859 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: if you're able to invest even a little bit and 860 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: you're working during that time, the longer things sit in 861 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: an investment. And I don't know if this episode airs 862 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: before or after our one. Financially episodes, people don't what 863 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,879 Speaker 1: else seeks preview, But the locker that your money has 864 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: to sit in investment, the better it's going to do. 865 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: So to give away these kind of earlier years is 866 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: quite a shame kind of from a long term scenario. 867 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: And that's even if your future income isn't really affected 868 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: by the time off, which studies show that. Sadly, I mean, 869 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't the case, but it's does appear 870 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: that it does take an overall hit on average on 871 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: career trajectory and kind of lifetime earnings. Daycare sometimes, in 872 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: my mind, it helps to think of it as more 873 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,240 Speaker 1: of a lump sum five year expense rather than something 874 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: that's forever, because while you will be paying for after 875 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: care and that kind of you know, increase flexibility in 876 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: summer camps, when your child goes to school, you really 877 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: don't have that. You know, it's not as bad, it's 878 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: not as much, it's not as relentless, and it's temporary. 879 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: And you also may find that when it comes to 880 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: after school activities and camps and things, you could say, well, 881 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, I might not have to pay for those 882 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: if I was home, but you're going to want to 883 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: send your seven and eight year old to those things. 884 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: They're not going to want to sit home. They want 885 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: to go to They're going to want to go to 886 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: the gymnastics classes in the soccer classes and the all 887 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: the things, and if you're working, you can pay for 888 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: its exactly. If you're working, you can pay for them 889 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,839 Speaker 1: to have those opportunities, and you will have had five 890 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: years of salary growth to hopefully be in a better 891 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: place to support that. But I think one of the 892 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: most important points to remember is that you, in the 893 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: note said I really like the process of work and 894 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: using my mind in an adult way. Adult or not, 895 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: what you feel matters. You're a person, you are, your 896 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: happiness is not just you know. It's important in your 897 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,240 Speaker 1: own sake, and it's important for the health of your family. 898 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: And if you had written in this question that you 899 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: know what my heart really isn't in my work. I 900 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: don't like my job. I'd like to take a break, 901 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: and I want to jump back in it, I would 902 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,439 Speaker 1: one hundred percent be supportive of that too. I think 903 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: that is a perfectly reasonable choice to make in many conditions. 904 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: But if what you wrote above is true, that you 905 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: really do like your work and that's what you want 906 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: to do, then I think I can't imagine that it 907 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't make sense to make that investment that comes from 908 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,919 Speaker 1: both of you. Yeah, Now, I mean if you love 909 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: your work, then you should work. I mean, if you 910 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 1: want to be home with your kids, then you should 911 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: be home with your kids. I mean, it's not about 912 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: what's better for the children. And unfortunately, I think this episode, 913 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: this issue is always fame that way because the kids 914 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,879 Speaker 1: are going to be fine regardless of what you do, 915 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: but they're going to be probably happier if you're here. 916 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: So you should do what is satisfying for you. And 917 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, as long as you're not losing massive amounts 918 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: of money on you working. I mean, hopefully that's not 919 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,919 Speaker 1: the case, but you know, even if it's it's break, 920 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: even the salary growth and your happiness can touch, you know, 921 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: nudge that over to that side. Well, this has been 922 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: best of both worlds. We've been talking with Lisa Heffernan 923 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: about being grown and flown adolescent children, how we can 924 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: parent them. We'll be back next week with more on 925 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You 926 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 1: can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or 927 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can 928 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,399 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 929 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds. Podcasts. Please join us 930 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.