WEBVTT - ABS Challenge System ripple effects, Tigers rollercoaster run 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.200 Hey, it's Tiger Territory host Cody Stapenhagen joining us right 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.280 now from The Athletic. But first we're going to talk 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.720 about an article that hits all teams. Cody, great to 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.880 have you on, and I wanted to spend some time 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.079 on the homework that you did and put into a 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.360 great article on what's going on with the strike zone 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.239 and how the ABS system affects that. So can you 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:25.959 lay it out and then we'll also get our guys 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.040 and just turn this into more of a discussion like 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.120 KP and crats to reply. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:31.680 Yeah, for sure. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.800 I mean everyone in baseball is obviously talking about the 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:36.919 ABS right now, and I feel like a lot of 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.360 the discussion has just gone to is this good? 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.040 Is this bad? 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.280 How do we feel about the challenges? How are we 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.519 using the challenges? And almost overlooked is something that was 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.240 kind of laid out in the impetus of MLB going 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.960 to the ABS, which is that the strike zone has changed. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.880 The rule book strike zone and the ABS strike zone 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.520 are two different things. Most notably, we now base the 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.319 strike zone on a percentage of player's height, which has 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.880 several interesting ripple effects. Number one, how our umpire's supposed 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.399 to know what the bottom or top of the zone is. 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.880 How do you look at someone and know what twenty 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.440 seven percent of their height looks like? And to some degree, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.840 pictures are dealing with the exact same thing. They no 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.440 longer have those set easy visual cues just below the 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.200 shoulders or the hollow of the kneecap to know the 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.280 top and bottom of the zone. Now a lot of 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.959 pitchers are basing their cues more off the catcher anyway, 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.679 but some are doing some homework to know in advance 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.440 what zones look like on certain guys. Now with this, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.119 the top of the zone is smaller, and the walk 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.920 rate has risen quite significantly. It's nine point nine percent. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.120 To some degree, MLB expected that they saw a very 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.760 similar trend in triple A. But nine point nine percent now, 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.920 I know it's early, I know it's April. That'd be 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.480 the highest walk rate in more than seventy years, guys, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.000 And if you exclude the short and twenty twenty season, 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.720 the walk rate hasn't been nine since the year two thousand, 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.760 So let's say pretty shit rise and walks. There may 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.600 be some more ripple effects to come as everyone continues 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.000 adjusting to the abs and basically, what's a new strike 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:09.760 zone In. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.760 The research, have you seen any numbers that would indicate, well, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.240 this is going to be the norm or will there 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.400 be a regression back to the mean of the amount 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.800 of walks with that walk rate spiking? Obviously we don't know. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.280 You're not not a fortune teller, but is there something 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.160 that would indicate, Okay, well, everyone will figure it out, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.560 including the pictures, including the umpires, and we'll get back 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:35.919 to it. Or is this the new norm? 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:37.360 Yeah? 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.040 I think to some degree it's the new normal. Will 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.320 it be this extreme? Who knows. But right now, the 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.680 best evidence we have is what happened in Triple A 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.800 last year, a full ABS challenge system from start to finish, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.480 and the walk rate jumped, you know, more than a 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.960 percentage point. So there's reason to suggest this is what happens. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.480 Triple A has experimented with different iterations of the ABS 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.440 over the past few years. Walker right is stabilized a 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.639 little bit as this has gone on, but it's still 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.600 much higher than it was pre ABS. Some of the 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.919 trends we're seeing at the MLB level right now kind 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.600 of reflect what's happened in Triple A, where the overall 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.280 percentage of pitches in the zone is lower. As a 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.040 result of that, the swing rate from hitters is lower. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.480 I think as everyone comes to know the zone, whether 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.960 that's catchers, batters, pitchers, umpires, they might there may be 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.959 some adjustment, but in at least the short term, it 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.120 could mean even more walks as hitters increasingly learn to 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.080 lay off the high pitch, that high fastball that can 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.680 be unhittable from certain pitchers. And so maybe the question 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.480 that's still unanswerable is if hitters really learned to lay 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.120 off that pitch, what does that mean for the art 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.440 of pitching. Or I think we're already seeing slide up 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.120 tick and sinkers and change ups, pitchers going a little 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.920 more east west, and what will that look like for 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.800 the game. I think these are some of the many 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.080 questions that kind of come up and that it's going 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.360 to take some time, probably multiple seasons to fully answer. 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.520 Yeah, these are more comments than I'll ask Kratzy a question. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.160 But I feel like the strike zone was always defined 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.680 in the rule book, right, but it was very arbitrary 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.720 to what the umpire decided to call. So I'm a 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.400 huge fan, I'm also pro hitter that there is a 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.040 defined strike zone. Now, even though you know, when you're 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.960 sitting back there catching crats, you can't really, you know, 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.320 estimate what's you know, twenty six point seven percent of 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.480 their body height. But I could also imagine you're probably 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.360 not back there Kratzy setting up a target right at 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.520 the hall of the knees. It becomes more of a 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.159 feeling when you're back there. But I also think this 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.320 just kind of highlights how good umpires are, you know, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.520 and I think for a long time, when we talked 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.400 about this in our production meeting, I think they're just 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.919 finally being held accountable. There's a repercussion for them to 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.159 kind of just call whatever they feel like to strike, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.600 but when they have a defined strike zone that they 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.320 can actually lock into, these guys are pretty good. And 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:58.960 I think it's been great for the game. I know 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.520 it's a little bit more challeng for pitchers and maybe 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.159 there's an adjustment for pictures, but I love the fact 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.120 that it's implementing the game. I think it's added a 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.640 layer of entertainment. I've been at a couple of games 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.120 covering the Blue Jays, and when that happens instantaneously, you 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.159 can kind of feel this people holding their breadth in 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.440 the stadium and anticipation of what the call is going 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.760 to be, whether it's for the team or against the team. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.120 But it's just added this extra layer of entertainment. But Gratzy, 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.000 maybe you could speak on it when you're back there 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.680 as a catcher. It's it's more of a feeling you 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.039 have catching than actually setting your glove at you know, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.239 like measuring the top of the zone or the bottom 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:34.960 of the zone. You're kind of just setting up a target. 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.520 Yeah, you're setting up a target. But I also want 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.599 to know, like are some catchers like setting the hitter 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.800 up like given like a I know that was I 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.359 know that was in the zone, but I kind of 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.479 caught it bad to set the hitters up. There's there's 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.000 a lot of gamesmanship. And I love how Cody you 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.840 you highlighted the fact that the walk rate is up, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.720 but the fact that how are you so supposed to know? 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.280 How are you supposed to know what that percentage is? 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.159 And through the different stuff that you looked at, is 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.000 it still the top of the zone? You talked about 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.440 the top of the zone. But we've had three or 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.919 four catchers on the show and they've all said the 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.960 same thing. I just don't know where the top of 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.200 the zone is. And did you hear that or have 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:22.800 you heard that from umpires too? 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.760 Yeah, I personally haven't spoken to any umpires based on 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.440 the sense that's out there Ken Rosenthal what some others 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.799 have reported, I think umpires certainly share the similar feeling. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.520 The top of the zone was seemingly altered a little 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.080 bit more than the bottom of the zone. There have 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.480 been some mysteries at the bottom of the zone two. 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.400 But if you look at the data of just what 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.839 pitches are getting challenged the most, it's pretty interesting. The 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.440 bottom of the zone is where the most challenges are. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.279 So does that tell you no one knows the bottom 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.119 of the zone, or does that tell you everyone's pretty 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:54.760 confident in the bottom of the zone, so they're going 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.440 to challenge Where the least challenges have occurred is up top, 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.400 which actually I personally tend to think means batters aren't 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.760 quite sure what the top is. Catchers aren't quite sure 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.000 where the top is. There's still a degree of mystery 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.480 up top. I think talking to pitchers for sure, that's 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.000 what got mentioned the most, just the uncertainty of that 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.000 how batters are reacting the pitches up top. I think 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.880 I think that's what everyone is kind of talking about 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.320 the most. And to be clear, these things weren't necessarily complaints. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.280 I think the large consensus in the game, as you 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.720 point out, Kevin, like, people tend to like the ABS. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:31.760 But I do think it's important to note it's not 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.880 just like, all right, the ABS is here, people tend 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.520 to like it. It's good like there are small little 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.520 ripple effects that are that are coming out. When you 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.920 fundamentally change the strike zone, you fundamentally changed the game. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.440 You talked about the areas. Is there a pitch that 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.640 has been challenged more often? 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:49.960 Like? 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:55.360 Is there are more sliders challenged or more fastballs challenged splitters? 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.160 Is there one pitch that sticks out as an outlier 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.920 that's challenged more ya right. 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.720 Now in terms of just the sheer volume, it's forcing fastballs, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.240 But that makes sense. Forcing fastball are still the most 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.800 commonly thrown pitch. So I'm not a good enough mathematician 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.760 to break down each percentage of pitches they're game challenge, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:14.920 but I think it's probably telling. The second and third 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.840 most commonly challenged pitch are the sinker and the slider 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.200 pitches kind of with later horizontal movement that maybe that 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:23.080 are going, you know. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:23.920 Out of the zone. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.560 I think that's selling sinkers for sure. I mean, again, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.560 a commonly thrown pitch, but some of these sinkers these 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.240 days that are moving the width of the plate and 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.760 have hard late movement. Combine that with pitchers, they're using 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.080 sinkers a little bit more often. I think maybe that's 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.199 been kind of the toughest pitch to pick up for batters, umpires, pitchers, 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:44.880 catchers alike. 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.840 What have you seen with the Tigers in terms of 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.880 how successful they have been. Are they using it more 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.600 offensively defensively? And have you had conversations with players or 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.480 even aj about kind of the strategy that they've actively 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.560 come up with how to use their challenges. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.960 Yeah, for sure. I mean the Tigers, I think, like 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.760 most teams but maybe not quite every team, are pretty 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.400 focused on using it in leverage situations. Right if there's 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.839 a chance to flip account big time, to go from 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.000 a strikeout to a walk, or if they're runners on base, 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.400 that's a good time to use it. Is an oo 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.400 pitch in the first inning with no one on base 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.680 really the best time to deploy your challenge. Look, you 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.240 better be sure, and that's probably the overwhelming point, like 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.920 you better be sure or if you're not quite sure, 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.480 you better be using it in a situation where there 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.400 is something at stake. The Tigers have been pretty good 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.520 at challenges, I think most notably Dylan Dingler has been phenomenal. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.679 He was entering yesterday I think nine for eleven, so 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.640 he's been really accurate behind the plate. He's flipped a 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.800 big count this past week at the plate, going from 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.280 a walk to extend an inning. So Dylan Dingler has 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.800 actually been one of the stars of the challenge system 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:57.200 so far. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:59.880 Must be the American League Central because I think Ryan 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.719 Jeffers at one point had ten successful I think out 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.679 of twelve or something like that, but eight of them 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.120 were for strikeouts. So just to your point, they want 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.160 to do it in leverage counts. Do you see obviously, 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.760 April seventeenth, we are very new into ABS, but based 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.600 on the success of it, or based on the how 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.080 it's been taking, do you see a tweak that or 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.280 what your what's your nostradamus tweak that you think might 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.120 happen with ABS. We had a guest on the other 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.320 day that was like, they're going to go to full 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.080 robo umpires at one point, and I'm forgetting who it was, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.520 and I was like, what, No, I don't want that. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.160 Yeah, it is interesting that, given there's been a positive 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.240 response so far, does that make like full robo bumps 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:45.880 more likely. 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:46.960 I don't know. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.240 I mean, I think maybe, But I also think it's 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.439 worth noting that right now, fans seem to like the 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.080 Challenge system. Players seem to like the Challenge system. Even 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.200 umpires don't totally hate the Challenge system. So if you 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.000 have something that's working pretty well and adds that little 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.640 extra element of strategy and suspense even to the game, 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:07.120 I'm not sure they should touch it. And I say 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:08.720 that as someone who's kind of been like, well, if 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.880 you have the technology to get calls right, why wouldn't 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.000 you use it all the time. But right now, the 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.920 Challenge system has been kind of fun, kind of interesting, 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.840 Like the strategy behind it that we were just talking about. 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.600 I almost wonder if they should leave it there now. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.520 I don't think they're going to change anything mid season, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.720 but some of the strike zone stuff we were talking about, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.200 I wonder if that will eventually change previously or in 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.600 the rule book, the strike zone is still defined as 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.360 a three dimensional object and the ABS zone is like 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.960 a pane of glass, two dimensional, hung in the middle 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.960 of the plate. So can they perfect this technology where 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.040 they can implement the three D strike zone and it's 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.880 a little different, Or if the walk rate really becomes 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.760 a problem, is it as simple as to say, all right, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:50.800 let's raise the top of the zone a little bit, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.679 get it back a little bit more like it used 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.880 to be. That might be the most obvious solution if 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:57.440 they were to tweak things down the line. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.240 You laid out your research and you you talked about 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.000 the top of the zone, and obviously the research shows that. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.680 But have you had conversations with pictures within the organization 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.439 kind of expressing their frustration with not really knowing where 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:12.960 the top of the strike zone is? Or is this 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:13.920 all based off. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.160 Of research, Yeah, based on conversations with Tiger's pictures, some 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.760 other pictures around the league. My colleague Zach Miselle spoke 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.280 to a a couple of pictures with the Guardians, with 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.280 the Royals, and I wouldn't frame it so much as frustration, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.120 but it's more just like kind of talking out the uncertainty. Yeah, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.360 players definitely said like the top of the zone is 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.760 the one that everyone is still figuring out. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:42.440 What about the fear of time of game pace of games? 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.360 Have you heard that? Because I think we had the 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.400 number from the minor leagues and I think it's still 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.520 on par with that. But is their fear of pace 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:50.920 of game? 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.480 Yeah, no one told me that on the record, but 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.680 just conversation ends I've had since the start of spring training, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.160 that thought has definitely come up. Walks are up, which 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.400 again MLB kind of new walks we're going to raise 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.559 a little bit. Is that going to impact the pace 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.120 of play? Which improving the pace of play has been 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.199 such a good thing for the game over the past 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.880 few seasons. I do think that's a real question. If 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.280 the pace of play right now is pretty stable, or 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.440 at least close to where it was before, then maybe 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.040 it's not an issue. But if the walker rate continues 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.559 to be a concern, if hitters start laying off more 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.600 pitches and the walker rate keeps going up, at what 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.840 point does that become an issue. I certainly think that's 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.440 a really important thing to keep an eye on. 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.560 So over the last couple of years, the Tigers have 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.240 kind of been the alpha of that division, and we've 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.960 come to expect a certain thing from the Detroit Tigers. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.040 Is there a reason to panic or is this just 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.840 kind of some early season not playing their best baseball 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:46.280 right now? 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.360 Yeah, it's fine to say alpha of the division. They 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.160 haven't won the divisions in ten years. They've been a 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.320 playoff team in the past two years. But you know, 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.480 fumbled away of the division lead last year, and then 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.920 in terms of their start to the season, it's kind 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:01.559 of have been all over the place. They had a 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.199 really rough road trip in Minnesota. They lost four in 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.880 a row. They started four and nine. They weren't really 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.480 playing a clean or good brand of baseball. They weren't 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.160 pitching that well. And then they got back home and 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.520 they won six in a row. They beat the Royals 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.320 in three consecutive one run games, terrific comeback. A long 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.640 day at the park yesterday that had multiple delays. They 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.000 won that on a col Keith walkoff single. So a 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.080 really good home stand. Now they're ten to nine. Now 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.320 everyone is feeling a little bit better, I think most 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.760 notably to pitching. The starting pitching in particular starting to 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.680 come along strung together really six consecutive really strong starts. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.400 I think pitching and a clean brand to play is 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.840 huge for the Tigers. They have enough offense, but it's 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.920 gonna take elite pitching, I think for them to win 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.360 this division, And at least over the past week we 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:49.920 started to see more signs of that. 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.640 Who do you think makes the next step for the 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.320 rest of the season. Do you think it's Flairty or 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.240 do you think it's Kaider Mantaro who I thought was 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.080 going to take the next step and then he kind 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.000 of you know, they got Framburgh, so it kind of 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:05.800 not that he took a back seat. He's still in 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.640 the rotation, but you saw what he did in the WBC, 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.040 you know, and then you're like, oh no, Like obviously 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.200 it's all small sample size, but one of those two 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.760 guys really needs to step up for this team if 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.600 they want to make the run that they're planning on making, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.120 and that's why they're keeping Trek Scrugle to win the 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.880 World Series. They need a third guy to step up. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.400 Yeah, for sure. You know this in spring when people 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.760 are saying, well that the Tigers have the best rotation 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.160 in the American League, that conversation was less dependent on 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.280 Trek Scougle and from Rivaldez, who are really good, you 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.000 have a pretty good idea what you're gonna get, and 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.520 more dependent on Jack Flaherty, Casey Mize, even justin Verlander. 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.160 Verlander's on the il right now. Montero's been really impressive 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.440 in his place. If and when Verlander gets back healthy, 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.000 what does that even mean for Montero? Like, I don't 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.040 know if these things tend to figure themselves out. All 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.360 it takes is someone else tweaking a muscle and maybe 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.040 Montero's in the rotation for another month. He's been really good. 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.840 He's been really impressive. He's commanding his stuff better than ever. 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.720 Flaherty's coming off a really good start after a couple 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.840 of rough ones. But I would throw Casey Myes in 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.200 that conversation too. Myes has looked pretty good so far 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.840 at this season. He's had one start where his splitter 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.520 was terrific and good as ever. He had a little 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:21.920 bit of a rough start in Minnesota, and then this 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.520 past homestand had had one where he was pretty good. 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.200 His fastball command was good, he made some big pitches 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.840 and big spots even with runners on base. He pitches 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.040 tonight against the Red Sox. I actually like what I'm 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.000 seeing from Casey Mice and I would throw him at 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.600 the top of that list. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.160 Hey, quick question, Cole Keith. 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:47.000 So I saw the tweet about you know, sitting in 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:48.520 front of his locker, talked about breathing. 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:49.880 Can you elaborate on that? 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.400 Yeah, Cole Keith's soft to be a really good starts 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:58.000 the year his third MLB season. We've seen flashes of 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.320 good play from Cole in his first couple of years, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.760 but also some pretty long, prolonged droughts, most notably really 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.200 bad starts to the season in both twenty twenty four. 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.159 In twenty twenty five, he's hat a goal to correct that, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.159 to come out the gate hot, and he's done that. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.160 He's hitting above three hundred, had the walk off single yesterday. 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.399 Talking to Colt about it, he kind of attributes the 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.880 mental work more than the physical. He got big into 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.080 breathing exercises, kind of inhaling through the nose, doing some 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.320 things that you think can send more oxygen to his tissues. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.359 And so he's actually crediting that breathing exercises for why 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.280 his swing speed is up and his average exit velocity 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.560 is up. You guys can read a little bit more 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.720 about that on the athletic But it's been kind of interesting. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.560 You see these guys, you know, their physical profile starts 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.080 to change or their stat cast page starts to change, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.119 and sometimes you go talk to him and it's as 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.399 simple as oh, yeah, like I started doing breathing exercises. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.000 Quick reply before we drop KP or kay. Any thoughts 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:57.280 on that. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.199 Well, I mean it just reminds me of Loriano. Just 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.280 loosen the grip in his fingers a little bit and 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.240 he starts hitting the ball harder. So yeah, I mean 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.480 from an educational standpoint, like grats he touched on, sometimes 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.840 less is more and it sounds exactly what he's trying 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.040 to do. When you breathe, you're a little bit more relaxed, 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.560 the tensions off the bat starts to go through the 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.280 zone a little bit more. So Yeah, I love when 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.760 guys are open and honest about talking about that, because 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.120 we spent a lot of time talking about these physical 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.199 changes that need to be done in the cage and 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.200 hitting your way out of it. Sometimes you need to 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.520 step away from the physical aspect take some time mentally 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.359 to work on things like that and you're seeing, you know, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:34.760 him reaping the benefits of it. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.520 I was definite I was breathing when I played, but 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:44.240 it sounded more like this, Oh man, they're gonna send 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.000 me down. Cole Keith doesn't have to worry about that, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.160 so good for him. He's he's he's locked up now. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.320 He possibly could have been going if they had changed 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.239 in positions again, but fortunately they have. They haven't done that, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.760 so maybe those breathing actually sizes will continue to help him. 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.080 Look for more on Cody's Twitter and and I think 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:07.679 it would be a cool topic to bring up on 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.919