WEBVTT - EP 26 - Kelsey Pt. 2

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<v Speaker 1>I got a Facebook message. She's like, I've been down

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<v Speaker 1>a rabbit hole about Morgan. I have proof there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more to the story. And that's when it really

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<v Speaker 1>blew open.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 2>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 2>change everything. This is part two of Kelsey's story. If

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<v Speaker 2>you haven't heard part one, you should go back and

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<v Speaker 2>listen to that first as a listener. Note names and

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<v Speaker 2>locations have been changed to protect privacy. Almost two years

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<v Speaker 2>into a marriage with Morgan, a seed of doubt have

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<v Speaker 2>been planted in Kelsey's mind about her wife's terminal cancer diagnosis.

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<v Speaker 2>It started when they were home with Kelsey's family for Christmas.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom had survived breast cancer, and something about Morgan's

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<v Speaker 2>behavior wasn't adding.

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<v Speaker 1>Up to her. I suddenly was like, why am I

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<v Speaker 1>feeling like something's wrong? And so this is the very

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<v Speaker 1>beginning of the conversations we started having about how serious

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<v Speaker 1>really is this? And that was when she started breaking bones.

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<v Speaker 3>At first, it was her hip.

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<v Speaker 1>She took the dogs out for a walk and came

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<v Speaker 1>back and she was dragging herself back into the apartment.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh my god, what happened. She's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I broke my hip. I said, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>what do we do I need to take you to

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<v Speaker 1>the er. And she's like, no, this happens, like the

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<v Speaker 1>cancer must now be in my hip.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey was at a loss for what to do, but

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan told her this was just part of the dying process.

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<v Speaker 2>Her doctors told her to expect it.

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<v Speaker 1>And she's like, I need to sleep. I need to sleep.

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<v Speaker 1>So she took some drugs and then she slept, and

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<v Speaker 1>she slept for like a week.

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan recovered from the hip injury and went back to

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<v Speaker 2>physical activity.

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<v Speaker 1>A few weeks after that, she was walking again.

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<v Speaker 3>One day, when Morgan.

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<v Speaker 2>Was out on a walk, she fell again and this

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<v Speaker 2>time she broke her elbow.

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<v Speaker 1>I could see it. It was bruised and it had

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<v Speaker 1>been obviously smashed. And then she had a sling. As

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<v Speaker 1>she was healing her elbow.

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<v Speaker 2>The broken bones became a cycle. After her elbow, Morgan

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<v Speaker 2>broke a rib.

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<v Speaker 1>She had fallen and she came back and she just

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<v Speaker 1>was like, oh my gosh, my rib, my rib my rib.

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<v Speaker 1>We looked at it. It was broken, and she took

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<v Speaker 1>herself to urgent care.

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<v Speaker 2>She came back with X rays showing her broken rib.

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<v Speaker 2>The doctors told her to rest. At the time, they

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<v Speaker 2>lived in an apartment complex and they were friends with

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<v Speaker 2>their downstairs neighbors. They usually went over every week for

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<v Speaker 2>game night.

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<v Speaker 1>After she had broken her rib, More was at home

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<v Speaker 1>for a couple of weeks and we had missed a

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<v Speaker 1>game night, and I had gone down personally to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>apologize he ever seeing this game night and to ask

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<v Speaker 1>how things were going. So I was in person in

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<v Speaker 1>their apartment. I was like explaining when I got her rib,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of them was like, oh my god, someone's

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<v Speaker 1>got to say it. I saw her. I saw her

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<v Speaker 1>with her rib, and I was like, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what you mean.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a cement wall in the back of their

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<v Speaker 2>apartment complex, and their neighbor had seen Morgan behaving strangely.

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<v Speaker 1>And she's like the day that she broke her rib,

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<v Speaker 1>I saw her falling onto that cement wall, like jumping

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<v Speaker 1>onto this wall.

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<v Speaker 2>Her neighbor saw Morgan throwing herself against a cement wall.

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<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't just one time.

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<v Speaker 1>She was like, I watched her do it several times.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was weird. And I was really defensive.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, you might have just like misunderstood

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<v Speaker 1>the situation because that doesn't make any sense, and they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to talk to your wife about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey felt like her neighbors were accusing her of lying,

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<v Speaker 2>and the neighbor's story didn't make any sense. If they

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<v Speaker 2>saw Morgan falling, why wouldn't they help her.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember coming home and being like, why did the

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<v Speaker 1>neighbor think that she saw you? And she's like, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a really big fall. I'm surprised she didn't make

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<v Speaker 1>sure I was okay as I, Yeah, that seems weird,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I just get a weird vibe from them, like

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<v Speaker 1>I really don't think they want to be friends with

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<v Speaker 1>us anymore. And she's like, well, we don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>be friends with anyone who think we're liars anyway, Like

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<v Speaker 1>why would anyone lie about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Regardless of how Morgan had broken her rib, she was

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<v Speaker 2>clearly injured again. Morgan's doctor recommended she stay physically active,

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<v Speaker 2>but to Kelsey this seemed unsafe, so she.

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<v Speaker 1>Told Morgan, you have to stop leaving the house like this,

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<v Speaker 1>and I need to see your paperwork, like I need

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<v Speaker 1>to see the doctor's recommend that this is okay, because

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<v Speaker 1>clearly it's not. And it was a huge argument. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a huge blow up that I was too controlling,

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<v Speaker 1>that I was obsessing over her death. And I finally

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<v Speaker 1>was like okay, and then I left the apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey went on a walk around the block alone for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time in a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I was on this walk thinking I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how to manage this anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Between Morgan's cancer, her constant injuries, working to support them both,

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<v Speaker 2>and her graduate school program, Kelsey couldn't take it anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>On that walk, I called my friend and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not okay. I think I need to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>That night, Kelsey made up her mind she was going

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<v Speaker 2>to transfer schools, move to a new city on her own.

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<v Speaker 1>The academic advisor called me the very next day and

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<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, I'd love to sell yoll for an interview,

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<v Speaker 1>And so I flew that Thursday and did my interview

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<v Speaker 1>in person.

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<v Speaker 2>She was in a frenzy before she was even accepted.

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<v Speaker 2>She made plans to move everything and her body was

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<v Speaker 2>telling her to get away from Morgan.

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<v Speaker 1>So I just literally packed everything in my car. I

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<v Speaker 1>got a job and a place to live. When I

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<v Speaker 1>went to interview, I just moved at lightning speed. When

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<v Speaker 1>she told Morgan she was leaving, she was just shocked.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I think we just need a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of breather space. You stay here, You've got everything

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<v Speaker 1>that you need. I'll continue paying for rent here, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>pay for your food, I'll pay for everything. But I

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<v Speaker 1>have to go do my master's program. And then then

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<v Speaker 1>I left. If she might have thought I was having

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<v Speaker 1>a mental breakdown, because honestly I was.

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<v Speaker 3>That night she drove fifteen hours straight.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my way, I called my sister. My sister was like,

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<v Speaker 1>you are a really terrible person, Like I can't believe

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<v Speaker 1>that you would leave in this way when Morgan could

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<v Speaker 1>die at any time.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, she wasn't ready to share her doubts

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<v Speaker 2>about Morgan's diagnosis with anyone else.

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<v Speaker 1>I just felt like I didn't have enough evidence of that.

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<v Speaker 1>I just wanted it to be behind me.

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<v Speaker 4>Still, her sister's words made her feel horrible. Because of

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<v Speaker 4>this guilt, Kelsey stayed in touch with Morgan over the

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<v Speaker 4>phone as much as she could, especially when right after

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<v Speaker 4>her move, Kelsey needed emergency surgery for her appendix now

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<v Speaker 4>the shoe was on the other foot and Kelsey needed

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<v Speaker 4>morgan support.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember calling Morgan at the er. She's like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, I'm so sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>While Kelsey was in the hospital recovering, she received a

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<v Speaker 2>strange text.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually got a text from her mom and it

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<v Speaker 1>was almost like the fourth wall broke.

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<v Speaker 2>The last time she had heard from Morgan's mom was

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<v Speaker 2>before they'd gotten married, and that was over email.

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<v Speaker 3>The emails were.

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<v Speaker 2>She called Kelsey the devil. They had never texted, and.

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<v Speaker 1>She sent the most thoughtful text to me. It was like, oh, sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>this is happening. We're hoping you heal.

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<v Speaker 2>This was at odds with everything Kelsey knew about this woman.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, what, Like, Morgan didn't have relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>her parents, and suddenly they knew this very intimate detail

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<v Speaker 1>about my health.

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<v Speaker 2>That text from Morgan's mom opened a door to what

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<v Speaker 2>might be a different reality. She decided not to tell

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan about it.

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<v Speaker 1>That suddenly felt like I was uncovering something.

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<v Speaker 2>After Kelsey recovered from surgery, she settled into her new city.

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<v Speaker 2>She could finally feel the relief of being away from Morgan.

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<v Speaker 2>The next time they talked, Kelsey asked for divorce, and

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<v Speaker 2>to her surprise, Morgan agreed.

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<v Speaker 1>She's like, Okay, I've got a family friend who's married

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<v Speaker 1>to a divorce lawyer, and she will start working up

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<v Speaker 1>the divorce paperwork. Because I had no idea how to divorce,

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<v Speaker 1>I just assumed it would be complicated, so she.

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<v Speaker 2>Let Morgan handle the paperwork. It was clear to both

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<v Speaker 2>of them that their relationship was over.

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<v Speaker 3>Morgan took it really hard.

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<v Speaker 1>The divorce had activated her eating disorder, so she was

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<v Speaker 1>going back into an eating disorder clinic in our home state.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey felt intense guilt for leaving Morgan. She'd spent two

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<v Speaker 2>years taking care of her. She'd seen the broken bones,

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<v Speaker 2>the nausea of the exhaustion, all of the medications. But

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<v Speaker 2>the more time Kelsey took for herself, the more she

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<v Speaker 2>realized Morgan was hiding something.

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<v Speaker 3>What it was, she didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Know for sure, But what she did know was that

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<v Speaker 2>she needed.

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<v Speaker 3>A fresh start.

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<v Speaker 1>I can finally at least separate myself from whatever lie

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<v Speaker 1>she is or is not telling herself or me.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey tried to move on and put this relationship behind her.

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<v Speaker 2>She wanted to clean slate.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt like it was the start of a whole

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<v Speaker 1>new chapter of my life. It was the first time

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<v Speaker 1>I was dating someone new who didn't have a health crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>This is when I was in a master's program. I

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<v Speaker 1>just loved my school, I loved being with my dog.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved the new life I was creating. And I

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<v Speaker 1>reflected back on the years before, and I really felt

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<v Speaker 1>like I had missed everything, and so I felt like

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<v Speaker 1>this was the start of something brand new.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of that reset was acting like the relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan never happened.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt stupid for having been in this dynamic for

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<v Speaker 1>so long. It would be so much easier to start

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<v Speaker 1>completely over if I just don't bring in this very,

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<v Speaker 1>very complicated backstory that I now had with my ex.

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<v Speaker 2>But she still had to communicate with Morgan about the

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<v Speaker 2>divorce paperwork.

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<v Speaker 1>I would have to check in and be like, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>where is this divorce happening? Like I was always just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like dragged back to the reality of something

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<v Speaker 1>I really didn't want to face.

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<v Speaker 2>As the months when by the divorce still hadn't been finalized.

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<v Speaker 1>And throughout this whole time period, there be times where

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<v Speaker 1>I was like checking in and Morgan would be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm filing paperwork and it's still being processed.

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<v Speaker 2>While Kelsey was in the middle of her emotional recovery,

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<v Speaker 2>she got a red envelope in the mail.

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<v Speaker 1>I started getting collection notices. The first big one was

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<v Speaker 1>the car.

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan had stopped paying her car payment, so it went

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<v Speaker 2>to collections.

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<v Speaker 1>Kelsey assumed, like, she's getting the same notification, so she's

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<v Speaker 1>going to pay for it, right. That was the first notification,

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<v Speaker 1>And then I started getting mail constantly, phone bills, credit

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<v Speaker 1>card debts, things that had my name and her name

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<v Speaker 1>on together, and it was significant. It was like thousands

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<v Speaker 1>and thousands of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>The notices weren't slowing down, and the debt was impacting

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<v Speaker 2>Kelsey's credit.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just starting to get really frustrated. I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>how is this happening? So the very first thing I

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<v Speaker 1>did was try to contact her. She didn't answer, She'd

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<v Speaker 1>block me.

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan had blocked her, and their divorce still wasn't finalized.

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<v Speaker 2>So Kelsey decided to take matters into her own hands.

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<v Speaker 1>So I paid an attorney to check all the legal

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<v Speaker 1>processes in every state we had lived in to see

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<v Speaker 1>if they had started divorce paperwork at all. And Morgan

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:34.920
<v Speaker 1>had never ever filed.

0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Morgan told Kelsey with confidence that she had filed for divorce,

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.959
<v Speaker 2>and Kelsey believed her, trusted her, and.

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>I was like, there's no way she would lie about this,

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 1>But she had lied.

0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Kelsey's lawyer had the proof. The time Kelsey spent trying to.

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Put Morgan behind her now came with a price.

0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. I have been avoiding the reality of

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 1>this forever, like I haven't ever thought to check anything

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 1>regarding our divorce paperwork. I didn't know to like flag

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.840
<v Speaker 1>her on any of my banks, to not have access

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.880
<v Speaker 1>to my stuff like we were legally married. And so

0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.960
<v Speaker 1>suddenly I realized there was so many connections that I

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.000
<v Speaker 1>still had her and didn't know the gravity of until

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I was presenting this lawyer this debt paperwork.

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Morgan's debt had piled up to an astonishing number.

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Just the payoff alone, like just what I knew collectors

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 1>had sent to me that was dinging on my credit

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.720
<v Speaker 1>report was about sixty thousand.

0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.559
<v Speaker 3>Kelsey hadn't been able to reach Morgan.

0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>She had no idea where she was living, but she

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 2>was clearly still alive, charging credit cards with Kelsey's name

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 2>on them. So they hired a private investigator to track

0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Morgan down and serve her the paperwork.

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 1>My lawyer sent the paperwork to her and she signed,

0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.839
<v Speaker 1>so now I can also file a financial restraint order

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.560
<v Speaker 1>against her. I remember leaving the courthouse and just sabbing,

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 1>like walking into my car and just crying.

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 5>It was the first time I had like a binder

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 5>in my hands of our marriage certificate and are divorce

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 5>to creed, and I finally could put a stop too

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 5>anything more happening.

0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>With the divorce decree in hand, Kelsey believed that Morgan

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 2>and the chaos that came with her was now truly

0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 2>behind her. She wasn't avoiding it anymore.

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 1>I was really surprised when in late twenty twenty, I

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.120
<v Speaker 1>got a Facebook message from Joanne.

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>It was Morgan's mentor, the woman who'd been like a

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>second mother to her. Kelsey hadn't spoken to her since

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>that awkward road trip visit years ago. Joanne said she

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 2>needed to speak with Kelsey.

0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 6>It was urgent, So we get on a Facebook video

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 6>call and she's like, a couple months ago, I was

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 6>listening to a podcast about factitious disorder and it just

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 6>sounds so much like Morgan that I just couldn't shake

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 6>this feeling.

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Factitious disorder is the official term for Munchausen syndrome, which

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>is when someone fakes being sick for sympathy and attention.

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 3>Joanne went on to explain, I've.

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Been down a rabbit hole about Morgan, and I have

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 1>proof that she had been diagnosed with spactitious disorder before

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>she ever met you, and I had proved that she

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>was faking breaking her bones.

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Just as Kelsey was finally feeling in control of her life,

0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>she got a Facebook message out.

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 3>Of the blue.

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 2>It was from Joanne, Morgan's mentor. Joanne had uncovered something

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>that she needed to share with Kelsey.

0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>This is when she broke down all of her findings,

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>which she could on paper point two and say like, no,

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I got this record, this was a lie, and this

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 1>statement for this person's a lie.

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Joanne had met Morgan when Morgan was a college athlete.

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 2>She'd taken Morgan in when she was going through a

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 2>hard time with her family, and Joanne was there when

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Morgan broke her wrists for the first time. When Morgan

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>came back from the hospital in a cast, she told

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Joanne the doctors had found bone cancer.

0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Morgan had told Joanne that she needed to start cancer treatments,

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 1>and so she had supplies that she had brought back

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 1>and she was having Joanne administer cancer treatment intravenously. That's

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.080
<v Speaker 1>why Joanne had confirmed to me that she had cancer,

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.919
<v Speaker 1>because she's like, yeah, I was doing treatments with her

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 1>when she had cancer. It was really scary, and so

0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 1>they bonded over that. It was like, oh my gosh,

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 1>of course I'll help you. You're away from family.

0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:18.359
<v Speaker 2>This all happened before Kelsey ever met Morgan. Now years later,

0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Joanne was coming to Kelsey with proof that the story

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.520
<v Speaker 2>they'd both been told was a lie.

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 1>Joanne had found out that Morgan had secured saline and

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 1>like supplies to give herself IV treatments, but they were

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>never actual treatments.

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Joanne got medical records that told the real story what

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 2>was actually happening.

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Morgan would come out of the hospital like having fixed

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.679
<v Speaker 1>her broken wrist, and then would break it again and

0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 1>tell everyone that it was cancer related, that our cancer

0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.960
<v Speaker 1>had come back. But in reality, she was going back

0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 1>to the doctor and being like, oh, my broken bone

0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.080
<v Speaker 1>and will you fix it? And they would fix it.

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>But after four or five times of this happening during

0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 1>that school year. They had actually had to blacklist her

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>from the hospital because she had exhausted the hospitals in

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>that area.

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 2>It was a bombshell finding refusing care and blacklisting someone

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 2>from a hospital is a very big deal.

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:25.439
<v Speaker 1>The fact that Morgan had been assigned this label and

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to get treatment at these hospitals anymore was

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.400
<v Speaker 1>like a really serious thing, and they had officially listed

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.680
<v Speaker 1>it as factious at the time. Was called Munchausen. That's

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.760
<v Speaker 1>how they formally called it on her record, like, do

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.359
<v Speaker 1>not treat her, this is unhealthy, and they had kept

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 1>encouraging her to get psychiatric care.

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>But according to the records Joanne had, Morgan didn't get

0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>psychiatric care. Instead, she went to summer camp.

0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>And so after lying about it to all the doctors

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 1>in the city of her college, this is the summer

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that she met me.

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.880
<v Speaker 2>After Morgan and Kelsey met, Morgan didn't need Joanne anymore.

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.200
<v Speaker 2>She had a new caretaker. The attention Kelsey witnessed between

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Morgan and Joanne when she saw them the last time

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 2>was real. Joanne was starting to question Morgan's story.

0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Joanne was mutual friends with someone and that person didn't

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.879
<v Speaker 1>even know that Morgan was dying of cancer. She just

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>started kind of hitting parts of the story that didn't

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 1>make a lot of sense. That's why she kept trying

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 1>to tell me something, but felt like she didn't have

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:35.679
<v Speaker 1>enough proof to tell me.

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 2>But now Joanne had the proof and the two of

0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:42.679
<v Speaker 2>them could begin piecing everything together.

0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:47.920
<v Speaker 1>We started comparing stories and realized there's a lot more

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:49.919
<v Speaker 1>to this story than we even know. Between the two

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.959
<v Speaker 1>of us.

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.159
<v Speaker 2>A key component of Morgan pulling off this deception was

0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 2>keeping people isolated from each other. If Kelsey and Joanne

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 2>were going to find the truth, they needed to connect

0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.160
<v Speaker 2>with other people in Morgan's life.

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:05.640
<v Speaker 1>This is where it really blew open.

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey went back to the very beginning, to the mutual

0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 2>friend who vouched for Morgan at camp.

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Even my friend from camp knew one version of the story.

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 1>She had never mentioned having cancer ever to this friend,

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>So that was the first like, oh, she was lying

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 1>from the very beginning.

0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 3>Even parts of the story that Kelsey never.

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Questioned before now seemed like they could be lies. Starting

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 2>with the letter Morgan said she received from the camp

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 2>director warning her that her eating disorder was interfering with

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>her job. Performance.

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.080
<v Speaker 1>She had never been talked to by camp staff about

0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:53.119
<v Speaker 1>being removed from camp. Ever, that was never even a conversation.

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 1>No one actually knew anything about her eating disorder.

0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.479
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey couldn't believe this fundamental part of their origin story

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:05.760
<v Speaker 2>could be fabricated. But the lie was confirmed when she discovered.

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.920
<v Speaker 1>She had never been hospitalized for eating disorder. The clinic

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 1>that she gave me was a fake name.

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Every new person Kelsey talked to had been told a

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:19.600
<v Speaker 2>different story. Sometimes it was an entirely different story.

0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't always cancer that the lie was about. It

0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>was oftentimes, Oh, I found my birth mother, So there

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 1>was like a birth mother network of lies.

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 2>One lie, in particular, was extremely difficult for Kelsey to accept.

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Morgan had actually maintained a relationship with her family the

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:41.960
<v Speaker 1>whole time I knew her.

0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.919
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey tracked down Morgan's siblings. That's when she learned her

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:49.879
<v Speaker 2>family had no idea about Morgan's cancer. And when Morgan

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 2>told the family she was dating a woman, everyone was

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.359
<v Speaker 2>accepting of her. So who sent the hate emails?

0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:01.840
<v Speaker 1>I did some digging on the emails that her parents

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.520
<v Speaker 1>had been sending me, and all of them went back

0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 1>to the same computer that I had bought her, which

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.360
<v Speaker 1>meant that all of the emails that her parents had

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 1>sent me when we first started dating were from Morgan.

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Morgan had written them. This hateful, homophobic rhetoric came from

0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 1>my partner. That was so devastating because I had such

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.960
<v Speaker 1>trauma and so much internalized shame for being gay.

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 2>So much of Kelsey's decision to support Morgan was because

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.920
<v Speaker 2>she had no family left. They had all disowned her

0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.040
<v Speaker 2>because she was gay. It was just lie on top

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:47.760
<v Speaker 2>of lie.

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Every single component of the intensity, like the first four

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>months of knowing her, was completely fabricated in every.

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Way time, All of the intensity felt very real to Kelsey,

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:08.680
<v Speaker 2>from the hate emails to Morgan's symptoms, the fatigue, the vomiting.

0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 3>How could Morgan fake all of that? Well, Kelsey found out.

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>I learned that she was taking medications that made her

0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 1>throw up, that made it really with tharga clear seizure meds.

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I learned that she would steal medications.

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Morgan didn't come up with the whole plan by herself,

0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 2>She had source material.

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 1>This is when I had seen the movie The Fault

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 1>in Our Stars and realized that she was feeding me

0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 1>the same lines from the book and from the movie.

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.000
<v Speaker 2>The Fault in Our Stars is a book by John

0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Green that was adapted into a film. It follows two

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:46.960
<v Speaker 2>teenagers with terminal cancer. Some of the exact lines from

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the movie were things Morgan had said to her, like

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 2>claiming that her cancer scans quote lit up like a

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:58.720
<v Speaker 2>Christmas tree. Kelsey felt like her relationship had been scripted.

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:03.200
<v Speaker 1>My entire because stints with her was a lie, all

0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 1>of it.

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Now that Kelsey had broken open Morgan's lies, she wanted

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that there were no remaining ties with her.

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.040
<v Speaker 2>She discovered there was still one bank account open that

0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.159
<v Speaker 2>they shared. It was an account Kelsey never knew about,

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 2>but her name was on it. In order to close

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.200
<v Speaker 2>the account, she had to move the money out of it.

0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 1>It was technically my account to close because we were

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:26.960
<v Speaker 1>both on it.

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 2>There was twenty thousand dollars in this account, all of

0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Morgan's checking and savings.

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 1>I suddenly had access to all of her money after

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:39.439
<v Speaker 1>all these years of piecing the story together, and like,

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I suddenly have access to everything. In order to close it,

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I had to put the money somewhere, so I had

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>to do something with the money.

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:50.640
<v Speaker 2>So She asked her friends and family what to do.

0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:55.359
<v Speaker 1>Everyone was like, keep the money, like that is your money.

0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 1>She couldn't dispute it even if she wanted to. And

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 1>I was like, no, no, no, I'm not taking any of that

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:02.439
<v Speaker 1>bad karma.

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.719
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey had financially supported Morgan for years. When they separated,

0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>she took on sixty thousand dollars of Morgan's debt. Even

0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 2>after all of that, Kelsey decided to send the money

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:18.120
<v Speaker 2>back to Morgan. She was ready to wash her hands

0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 2>of the whole thing.

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 1>I sent her a letter along with the check, and

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I said, I paid off everything you owed. I could

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>have taken thousands and thousands. I could have taken everything,

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:33.040
<v Speaker 1>and it still would not be a drop on the

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 1>bucket of what money you took from me. You lied

0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 1>to me. I know every lie you've ever told. Never

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 1>talk to me again, and I really hope that you're

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:47.480
<v Speaker 1>getting the help that you need. And that was the

0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:48.200
<v Speaker 1>last thing I sent.

0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:06.040
<v Speaker 2>After nearly five years, Kelsey was finally free of Morgan

0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and her deception, liberated from the lies, the financial and

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 2>emotional burden that she endured. Today, Kelsey thinks back on

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 2>the innocent woman at Girl Scout Camp who walked right

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 2>into Morgan's web.

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Like I was the perfect person for Morgan to meet

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:25.520
<v Speaker 1>at camp. Could not have been more perfect, Like a

0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:29.879
<v Speaker 1>history of family dysfunction, the tendency to get in relationships

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.240
<v Speaker 1>where I'm caregiving, and I had a mom food cancer.

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:37.879
<v Speaker 2>Before Morgan, Kelsey had never even heard about abuse in

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:39.280
<v Speaker 2>a lesbian relationship.

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:43.639
<v Speaker 1>So as a queer person, I almost felt safer with

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:46.040
<v Speaker 1>women than I ever felt with men, Like I never

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.360
<v Speaker 1>thought that that would happen to me in this intimate

0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 1>or precise or manipulative way.

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:54.479
<v Speaker 2>For a long time, Kelsey struggled to tell other people

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:58.600
<v Speaker 2>what she went through. Would they believe her? Would they

0:26:58.720 --> 0:26:59.200
<v Speaker 2>judge her?

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>A common question I get is how did you not know?

0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Or if you were married, how did you not know

0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:14.919
<v Speaker 1>the medicine or the doctors? Especially because this story with

0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:19.919
<v Speaker 1>Morgan is so extreme, I agree. If I was on

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the outside, I listened to plenty of true crime and

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 1>factitious disorder our stuff that I'm like, obviously you would know.

0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 2>So how did she not know? Well? The short answer

0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>is that she believed a woman she loved. The question

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:38.680
<v Speaker 2>used to bother her, but now she understands where it's

0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:39.480
<v Speaker 2>coming from.

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I really think it comes from a deep desire to

0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 1>feel like it couldn't happen to us. And more than that,

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:49.200
<v Speaker 1>it comes from this desire of like protecting ourselves hearing

0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:55.639
<v Speaker 1>other people's pain. And I can sympathize with that completely.

0:27:57.119 --> 0:27:59.639
<v Speaker 2>When she does tell the story to other people, she

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:01.119
<v Speaker 2>noticed this is her own shame.

0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Whenever I cringe telling this story, I've had to pause

0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:09.959
<v Speaker 1>and ask myself what part of me is cringing? And

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>the part of me that's cringing is always coming from

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.439
<v Speaker 1>a shameful, guilty place.

0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a relatable experience. All of us can point to

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 2>a moment in our lives and cringe at our choices.

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey's come to realize shame doesn't work.

0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Shame has never been a motivator of change for me.

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:36.320
<v Speaker 2>She's had to reflect on her own part in the relationship,

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>those key moments where she chose to stay with Morgan,

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 2>even when she knew something wasn't right.

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:46.239
<v Speaker 1>It's so easy to hear my story and be like,

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:49.960
<v Speaker 1>this terrible thing happened to this great person, And to

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.160
<v Speaker 1>be honest, I have had to reckon with my own

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:57.280
<v Speaker 1>innerdeemons about this, Like what parts of me were attracted

0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>to a person that needed to be taken care of.

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 1>I can reflect back on a lot in my early

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 1>childhood where to be caregiving and to be codependent. In

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 1>that way, we're very much rewarded. So it's not just like, Wow,

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>this terrible thing happened to me. Truly, it's like I

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 1>can see what I said yes to in this complicitly.

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.920
<v Speaker 1>I can see where I turned an eye away from

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:25.240
<v Speaker 1>what I knew in my body was the truth because

0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to lose something I loved or am embarrassed.

0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:30.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't leave sooner because I was afraid of what

0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:33.680
<v Speaker 1>it would look like. And it's true.

0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey has cultivated sympathy for the younger version of herself

0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:41.720
<v Speaker 2>who made those choices. After all, she was acting out

0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:42.120
<v Speaker 2>of love.

0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 1>When I hear other people's horrific stories of things that

0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 1>have happened to them, I now have a lens of

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:50.880
<v Speaker 1>what a human experience to love so deeply that we're

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 1>willing to suspend disbelief that high is like, I truly

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:59.640
<v Speaker 1>believe that deception really comes from a deep desire to

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:02.720
<v Speaker 1>be loved, and I can sympathize with a desire to

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 1>be loved.

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.880
<v Speaker 2>There's a meta element to Kelsey's story. It was a

0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:12.440
<v Speaker 2>podcast that helped Joanne and then Kelsey discover the truth.

0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:15.600
<v Speaker 1>And I remember listening to that podcast and thinking like

0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 1>that is so brave because I was so embarrassed about

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 1>my own story. I still struggle with that with myself,

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 1>but it's like, I want there to be less stigma

0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 1>around manipulative relationships.

0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Kelsey feels like it's come full circle. She's telling her

0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:36.360
<v Speaker 2>own story now for someone else who needs to hear it.

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:40.480
<v Speaker 2>We end all of our episodes with the same question,

0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:42.840
<v Speaker 2>why did you want to tell your story?

0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to tell the story ever. Again, the

0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 1>thing that made me is knowing that it took me

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.520
<v Speaker 1>so many years to untangle myself from the shame of

0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.320
<v Speaker 1>not recognizing that as trauma sooner. But there are so

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:04.959
<v Speaker 1>many little things that feel important to say out loud

0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 1>that we should be making more space for people to

0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 1>be critical of their interpersonal relationships without shame, Like if

0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:15.960
<v Speaker 1>that trust has been breached, then it's time to go.

0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to wait for evidence to leave. I

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:24.160
<v Speaker 1>think we need more models of that happening, and so

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:27.440
<v Speaker 1>I truly believe that I can reflect this story with

0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:31.800
<v Speaker 1>love and also hold someone accountable for doing something truly terrible.

0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 2>On the next episode of Betrayal.

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 1>If he can lie about that, he can lie about anything.

0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 1>He used his dead mother's name, he used his dead

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.480
<v Speaker 1>father's name, he used I think his aunt, he used

0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:49.120
<v Speaker 1>my name, all these people.

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 2>If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 2>team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>us at betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal pod

0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:06.720
<v Speaker 2>at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support. One

0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 2>way to show support is by subscribing to our show

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 2>on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 2>you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced

0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 2>by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlin Golden.

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinchech. Audio

0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 2>editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, Additional editing support from

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music library

0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:56.160
<v Speaker 2>provided by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,

0:32:56.360 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 2>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:00.480
<v Speaker 2>your my guest