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Speaker 1: This episode features songs from the Anthology of Interplanetary Folk

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Speaker 1: Music by Craig Leon. Learn more at Craig Leon dot

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Speaker 1: com and from the album Tactile Galactic by Secret Circuit,

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Speaker 1: available at Secret Circuit dot bandcamp, dot com, links and

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Speaker 1: more on our website Ephemeral dot shet. Ephemeral is a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart three D Audio for Felix Fasure.

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Speaker 1: Listen with that phones. Have you ever seen something you

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Speaker 1: couldn't explain, an encounter you would hesitate to recount for

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Speaker 1: fear of not being believed? Or on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: has anyone ever told you a tale so far outside

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Speaker 1: your conception of reality that you aren't sure what to

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Speaker 1: make a Sorting out these threads is what compels host

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Speaker 1: Toby Ball in the podcast Strange Arrivals. I had this

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Speaker 1: idea that I wanted to do something about skepticism and belief,

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Speaker 1: But how do you access that in a way that

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Speaker 1: people are going to find interesting? Unlike many other documentaries

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Speaker 1: series which center on proving or disproving extraordinary claims, Strange

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Speaker 1: Arrivals goes deep into the historical and social context around

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial accounts by weaving together eyewitness testimony expert interviews and

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Speaker 1: where our chival take. For the last two years, I've

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Speaker 1: been lucky enough to work with Toby on producing Strange Arrivals,

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Speaker 1: the second season of which concludes tomorrow, August three. In

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Speaker 1: light of that occasion, we wanted to take the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to hear more about his approach to the show, the

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Speaker 1: motivation behind it, and how he's learned to think about

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Speaker 1: like to the sky. When did you become interested in UFOs?

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Speaker 1: I think, like a lot of people is probably when

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Speaker 1: I was seven or eight. It was real. I swear

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Speaker 1: the culture was fairly infused with paranormal stuff. In the seventies.

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Speaker 1: You could get gold key UFO comic books. There's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of UFO movies, you know, Close Encounters, Star Wars

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Speaker 1: came out. I guess when I was ten there was one,

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Speaker 1: and I barely remember anything other than the title and

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Speaker 1: the fact that I loved it so much. Called The

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Speaker 1: Mysterious Monsters, The Mysterious Monsters a shocking look into man's

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Speaker 1: encounters with the unknown. There was a show called Project

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Speaker 1: UFO which began with this cryptic opening. Is Zechiel saw

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Speaker 1: the wheel. This is the wheel, he said, he saw.

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Speaker 1: These are unidentified flying objects that people say they are

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Speaker 1: seeing now. I don't know if it's really filtered down

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Speaker 1: to our current cultural moment, but Chariots of the Gods

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Speaker 1: came out around then. Chariots of the Gods explores Vondanigans

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Speaker 1: controversial and explosive theory that beings from other galaxies visited

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Speaker 1: Earth in ancient times. The Six Million Dollar Man, which

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Speaker 1: was probably my favorite show, had UFOs stuff in it

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Speaker 1: all the time. As a matter of fact, if I'm

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Speaker 1: remembering correctly, Bigfoot was an android that came out of

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Speaker 1: a flying saucer. I am going to back on to California. Also,

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Speaker 1: growing up, we had a family friend who we'd see

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Speaker 1: every Christmas and he was the editor for the Skeptical

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Speaker 1: Inquirer magazine. It's sort of an inquisitive eight nine, ten

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Speaker 1: love and twelve year old got to pick his brain

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Speaker 1: about his take on UFOs. There's this idea that the

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Speaker 1: modern UFO era in quotes, began in n the first

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Speaker 1: of two record air crushes. Prior to that, there had

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Speaker 1: been sort of these airship sightings in the late eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: These pictures made from up at the News Plane Show,

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Speaker 1: the world's largest airship heading for Lake christ New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: In World War Two, there was famously these sittings of

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Speaker 1: food fighters panzing. Fighter pilots would see these craft that

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Speaker 1: we're moving in ways that they weren't expecting. Every plane.

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Speaker 1: You've gotten such point. But if you put all that aside,

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Speaker 1: in seven, this guy Kenneth Arnold saw a bunch of

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Speaker 1: discs right around Mount Rainier. He described them as moving

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Speaker 1: like saucers, like if you skip the saucer that got

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Speaker 1: kind of picked up and turned into flying saucers, and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly things started looking like saucers. Then it was

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Speaker 1: less than a month later that the whole Roswell story happened.

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Speaker 1: Although Roswell goes underground and isn't this incident in people's

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Speaker 1: minds until it resurfaces in the eighties. We'll get back

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Speaker 1: to Roswell later. But after that there was this weird

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Speaker 1: period where there was a lot of sightings. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of them. Today people would not misidentified as

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Speaker 1: the UFOs, But back then people would just weren't looking

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Speaker 1: to the skies that much looking for things. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there weren't any satellites up, many fewer airplanes. There's actually

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Speaker 1: this really interesting story that I heard about how at

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Speaker 1: the end of World War Two, one of the Japanese

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Speaker 1: generals sent up these incendiary devices in balloons. The idea

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Speaker 1: was that these balloons are gonna float over to the

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Speaker 1: US and then dropped these devices. That was enough of

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Speaker 1: an issue that in the Pacific Northwest people were told, like,

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Speaker 1: look up for your own safety, see if there's any

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Speaker 1: of these weird balloons up there. So there was this

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Speaker 1: rash of sightings in the Pacific Northwest because people were

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Speaker 1: looking to the skies for the first time, looking out

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Speaker 1: for stuff. And then the other kind of weird thing

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Speaker 1: that happens early on, like in the fifties, is that

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Speaker 1: there's this group of quote unquote contact Ease, which are

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Speaker 1: these men who say they have seen a UFO come

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Speaker 1: down and have actually made contact with the aliens who

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Speaker 1: come out of the UFO, Like this one guy, George

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Speaker 1: Adam Skimate Atomer, Georgia, damns, it's not a soft land.

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Speaker 1: He thought it was this guy from Venus who came.

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Speaker 1: We met the pilots of a new and the guy's

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Speaker 1: got like flowing golden locks, wearing like loose white clothes.

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Speaker 1: This is business life. Put seventh to eight under pounds. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like a hand long hair waving, resting on his shoulders,

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Speaker 1: very shot by, kind of a half away smile and

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Speaker 1: put his hand out shake and he's preaching about how

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Speaker 1: people from other planets are watching the Earth and they're

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Speaker 1: really worried about atomic weapons and they're worried that we're

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Speaker 1: all gonna destroy ourselves. They came down to talk us

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Speaker 1: down and preach peace. Then like he's going to be

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Speaker 1: the guy who brings it to the world. And there's

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Speaker 1: a few people who are like this. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how many people actually believe them, other and thinking it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting way of getting across a pacifist message.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about Betty and Barney Hill

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Speaker 1: was that you kind of go from this didn't literally

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Speaker 1: happen type of encounters to a story where it does

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Speaker 1: seem like it could have happened. Examining the strange case

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Speaker 1: of Betty and Barney Hill was the genesis of strange arrivals.

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Speaker 1: At the time, I was working at the University of

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire and they have the Betty and Barney Hill

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Speaker 1: archives there. I thought, you know, I've got this treasure

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Speaker 1: trove of materials and that might be an interesting way

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Speaker 1: of getting into some of these other ideas, regardless of

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Speaker 1: what you believe about the truth or delusion about what

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Speaker 1: happened to them that night. As opposed to other alien

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Speaker 1: encounter stories that haven't stuck in the culture, this one did,

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Speaker 1: and then subsequent generations of alien abduction stories built on it,

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Speaker 1: but didn't really change the very, very basic aspect. There's

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Speaker 1: just something about that story that would have influence long

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Speaker 1: beyond the time that they told it, and even after

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Speaker 1: they had both passed. Betty and Barney, who who are

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Speaker 1: now on the telephone in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Hello, What

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Speaker 1: have I got on the line? If you have a Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 1: that's your buddy and Betty? Are you there? They were

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Speaker 1: mixed race couple. Barney was black, Betty was white. They

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Speaker 1: live in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. They're very active in the

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Speaker 1: civil rights movement in New Hampshire. She was a social

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Speaker 1: worker for the state and he worked at the post

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Speaker 1: office in South Boston. He was a vet and I

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Speaker 1: believe was close enough to a grenade that it blew

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Speaker 1: his teeth out, and he had false teeth That comes

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Speaker 1: out later in the story. In September of nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 1: they decided to go on a brief vacation. They drive west,

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Speaker 1: go to Niagara Falls, cross over to Canada, spend the

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Speaker 1: night outside of Toronto. They go to Montreal, and the

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Speaker 1: idea was that they were going to spend the night there,

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Speaker 1: but they don't. There's different ideas about why this might be.

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Speaker 1: There's talk about how they got lost in Montreal and

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Speaker 1: they didn't speak French. They were trying to get directions

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Speaker 1: and they couldn't understand what people were telling them, and

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Speaker 1: they got stressed out and just left. Also, there was

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Speaker 1: a tropical storm that was moving up the coast, and

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Speaker 1: Portsmouth is right on the ocean, so they may have

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Speaker 1: been trying to get home before that hit. They may

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Speaker 1: have just run out of money. But regardless of what

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Speaker 1: the reason was, they start heading act. They cross over

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Speaker 1: from Canada into northern New Hampshire and they stopped to

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Speaker 1: have a snack at this diner in this place called Colebrook.

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Speaker 1: They eat. As they're leaving, they see it's around ten

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Speaker 1: o'clock at night. They start driving south. They get into

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Speaker 1: the White Mountains and they see that there's this light

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Speaker 1: that seems to be following them. They stop at a

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Speaker 1: turn off and they get out and they look at it.

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Speaker 1: Barney thinks that maybe it's a plane, but they can't

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Speaker 1: hear any noise. They get back in the car, but

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Speaker 1: with this sense that something up and the sky is

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Speaker 1: following them. They drive through this area called Franconian Notch.

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Speaker 1: I've driven through it many times. It's this really beautiful road,

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Speaker 1: but on either side or these very steep mountains, so

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Speaker 1: it feels fairly claustrophobic. There used to be this tourist

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Speaker 1: stop called the Old Man in the Mountain, which was

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Speaker 1: this natural cliff face that from a certain angle looked

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Speaker 1: like the profile of like some old man. One of

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Speaker 1: nature's most inspiring worked is this giant profile of the

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Speaker 1: Old Man of the Mountain sculptured out of the granite

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Speaker 1: cliff at Franconia knot It's like a symbol of New

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Speaker 1: Campshire and it's on all the New Hampshire interstate signs.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's on my license plate. In two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three, this natural lampform collapsed, so they stopped right

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Speaker 1: by the Old Man in the Mountain and they see

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Speaker 1: an actual craft and that's the point which you know

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Speaker 1: it gets real They get back in the car, start

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Speaker 1: heading further south. They kind of get out of Franconian

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Speaker 1: Notch into more open area. Over their car, they hear

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Speaker 1: this craft. They pull over and the craft goes off

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Speaker 1: into this field. Barney gets out and he's got binoculars.

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Speaker 1: He looked like the kind of man who would have

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Speaker 1: binoculars handy in his car. He's looking up and he

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Speaker 1: sees beings inside the craft looking back at him. I

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Speaker 1: don't think you want to get it earlier that they

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Speaker 1: were pretty human looking with and you have to consider

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Speaker 1: that looking at anyone in a window ten stories up

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Speaker 1: with a binocular the only thing you can discern is

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Speaker 1: that they look human, and nothing we test about it.

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Speaker 1: They jump back into the car, take off down the highway.

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Speaker 1: They feel these kind of buzzes in the car, very

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Speaker 1: subtle vibration, and it was b B B B B B,

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Speaker 1: and they realized they're like thirty miles down the road

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Speaker 1: with no memory of driving it. They're go into Conquered

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Speaker 1: trying to find a cop to tell about what happened,

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Speaker 1: get a cup of coffee, don't find either. Drive the

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Speaker 1: rest of the way back, arriving at about five in

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Speaker 1: the morning, but they were expecting to show up around

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Speaker 1: three based on when they've gone through Colebrook. So there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of missing hours. And that was that. But

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Speaker 1: after a few days at home, Betty began to have

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Speaker 1: a recurring series of dreams. Ten nights after this happened,

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Speaker 1: I had a series of dreams. Betty had a series

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Speaker 1: of dreams for five nights that lasted for about five days. Differently,

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Speaker 1: Betty dreams about being abducted, being brought on a UFO,

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Speaker 1: and being examined by aliens. They're extremely vivid. She talks

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Speaker 1: to a bunch of people about them, including her sister Dreams,

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Speaker 1: who's like, wow, maybe those aren't dreams. Maybe you're just

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Speaker 1: remembering what happened during those two hours. It still happened that.

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Speaker 1: A few years later, Barney was recommended the new doctor. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there was distress. I developed an ulcer and that's all

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Speaker 1: gone now, Yes, thank god. He was seeing a psychiatrist

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Speaker 1: in Exeter and finally just going in talking about his

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Speaker 1: early childhood, his wild we're about all that. The psychiatrists

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Speaker 1: suggested that he might benefit from some hypnotherapy. There was

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Speaker 1: a guy down in Boston named Benjamin Simon, welcome Dr

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Speaker 1: Silent to our program. Dr Silon, Yes, good morning. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for staying up this lad to come

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Speaker 1: here with us. It was extremely respected my senses served

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Speaker 1: at the top of the field. At the time, I

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot of work with soldiers who were

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Speaker 1: returning from Korea and probably from World War Two as well,

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Speaker 1: with what we would call now PTSD. I think there

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Speaker 1: was probably a sense that Barney's war experience, especially being

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Speaker 1: that close to death with the grenade incident, was another

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Speaker 1: reason to recommend this guy. Benjamin Simon the name of

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Speaker 1: Dr Benjamin Simon. He's a psychiatrist in the Boston area,

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Speaker 1: and he was called on to interview psychoanalized and hypnotized

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Speaker 1: body Hill. They go down to Boston for a series

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Speaker 1: of hypnosucessions. It was later sixty three, quite near Christmas time,

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Speaker 1: and I kept a point Bunce which my secretary had

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Speaker 1: made with Mr Barney Hill, and at first it's just

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Speaker 1: gonna be Barney, but Betty gets her own hypno secessions too.

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Speaker 1: You have sessions with Dr Simon with that individually, and

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Speaker 1: he also gave us amnesia at the end of each

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Speaker 1: session so that we could not remember what had happened.

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Speaker 1: Under hypnosis, the Hills separately relived the night of their encounter,

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Speaker 1: and new details emerged. They tell these stories. They basically

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Speaker 1: go like this. After they leave where they see the

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Speaker 1: UFO in the field and they're driving off. After they

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Speaker 1: hear the first couple of buzzes, Barney, for no particular reason,

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Speaker 1: turns off the highway onto a side road. They're driving

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Speaker 1: through the woods and they come across some figures in

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Speaker 1: the road. They're wondering did somebody's car breakdown or what

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Speaker 1: do they think to do it? They stopped and the

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Speaker 1: car dies and they can't get it started again. These

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Speaker 1: figures split up, go on each side of the car,

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Speaker 1: and they take them out of the car. Betty starts

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Speaker 1: to freak out, Barney supposedly in a trance like up

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Speaker 1: wake up. They both get taken on board this UFO

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Speaker 1: that's in the woods. They're brought into separate examination rooms.

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Speaker 1: Barney kept his eyes closed and prayed and was just

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Speaker 1: scared out of his mind. It didn't close my eyes

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Speaker 1: because what I saw was terrifying. Betting, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: is like fully engaged with what's happening. They're taking skin samples.

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Speaker 1: They stick a big needle into her abdomen like a

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Speaker 1: pregnancy type test. But she starts having a conversation with them,

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Speaker 1: and I was very apparent that I was using words

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Speaker 1: that were flowering to him. They find that Barney's teeth

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Speaker 1: come out and her stone, he said, we're very very puzzled.

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Speaker 1: I you see the removable and yours are not. Why

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Speaker 1: She's like, well, you know when people get older, they

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Speaker 1: lose their teeth and they say, whoa, what's older? And

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Speaker 1: she's like old age? He said, what's age? Then he

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Speaker 1: said diet? What's die yet? So I'm saying, well, that's

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Speaker 1: the food to you. The first food she can think

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Speaker 1: of as squash. That twash is yellow and they're like,

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Speaker 1: what's yellow? So I look all about it. There's nothing yellow.

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Speaker 1: So we didn't get along too well. She's like, where

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Speaker 1: are you from? He pulled it out, a map, just

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Speaker 1: three D sort of hologram type thing that they pulled

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Speaker 1: from a wall. Had I ever seen a map like

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Speaker 1: this before? She's like, well, where are you on this map?

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Speaker 1: And they say, well, can you identify where your son is?

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Speaker 1: And she says no, and they say, well, then it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna do you when you get for us to

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Speaker 1: point where we are because you don't know where you are,

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Speaker 1: and they put it back. They show her a book

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Speaker 1: that's got these weird kind of like hieroglyphics on it.

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Speaker 1: I got a good look at the outside of the

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Speaker 1: boo in a few of the pages. I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what the contents were. They actually tell her she

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Speaker 1: can keep it and then lay to trick it back

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Speaker 1: on the basis that we were not going to need this.

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Speaker 1: They get led back out to their car and sent

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Speaker 1: on their way. This craft lifted up, it was gone,

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Speaker 1: and the aliens basically make them forget what happened. So

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Speaker 1: it's not until they undergo hypnosis that the story comes

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Speaker 1: back out, other than through Betty's streams to vet testimony

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Speaker 1: given under hypnosis. It's important to consider how human memory

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Speaker 1: works in the first place. From talking to people who

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Speaker 1: are real experts on this, it's complicated, But the way

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Speaker 1: you make and recall memories, it's not like you're running

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Speaker 1: back a video of what happened. You think about that

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Speaker 1: story or run it through in your head. Well, you

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Speaker 1: actually remember is the last time you thought about it.

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Speaker 1: There's all these associations and contaminants, and any little thing

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Speaker 1: that you got wrong the last time has now become

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Speaker 1: part of that memory. And I wanted to be initially,

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Speaker 1: And there's been all these experiments that show that it's really,

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Speaker 1: really easy to influence people's memories even before you get

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Speaker 1: to the hypnosis part of it. Now, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you something that happened to you when you were

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Speaker 1: six years old. And it's not to say that what

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Speaker 1: you're saying when you're getting hypnosis is necessarily false, but

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Speaker 1: you certainly can't take it as being true. Hello, how

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Speaker 1: long have you been asleep? As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: Simon was convinced that what they were recalling was Betty's dreams.

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Speaker 1: The whole structure of the story was that of a dream.

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Speaker 1: There many contradicts inconsistent with a perfect right and drink.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they're part of the nature drinks and that

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Speaker 1: they just act about it enough. The dad had come

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Speaker 1: to be associated with that missing period of a couple

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Speaker 1: of hours. He points out that she has this very rich,

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Speaker 1: detailed story with conversations and things she sees and stuff

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Speaker 1: she does. Barney, who didn't have those dreams, which has

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Speaker 1: heard them his stories. Basically, I had my freaking eyes

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Speaker 1: closed the whole time. So even Simon at the time,

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Speaker 1: who was sort of eliciting these quote unquote memories, didn't

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Speaker 1: think that they were literally true the way it was

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Speaker 1: put to me by this woman, Elizabeth Loftus, who is

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Speaker 1: I think, sort of the foremost expert on that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Hypnosis is really good if you want to quit smoking

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Speaker 1: or lose weight, but if you're trying to remember something

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Speaker 1: that happened ten years ago, it's not really all that useful.

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Speaker 1: In October of Betty and Barney Hill suddenly became household names.

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Speaker 1: This reporter John Latrelle for a now the funk newspaper

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Speaker 1: called The Boston Traveler rights a multipart newspaper series about

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Speaker 1: this whole encounter, and then it's out there. They become

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Speaker 1: the first well known UFO abduction in their minor celebrities.

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Speaker 1: I think everyone can read about Betty and Bunny Hill.

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Speaker 1: I know you COVID story time and private him and

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Speaker 1: COVID fascinating me. I'm Lokilla and your ham spy. We

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Speaker 1: go to this Bary Best Side. We're talking with Betty

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Speaker 1: Hill from our home in Portsmouth, Williams. Here we're talking

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Speaker 1: with Betty Hill, famous and first abductee. They're on the

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Speaker 1: radio all the time. My name is Bunnie Hill. Barney

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Speaker 1: was on one of those game shows where he's got

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Speaker 1: three people pretending to be Barney Hill including him. Well,

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Speaker 1: AREO Barney Hill, PA. And they're kind of the face

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Speaker 1: of UFO abductions, of thinking people can get there. One

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Speaker 1: piece of the abduction story would still surface later, the

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Speaker 1: map that Betty said she was shown on board the

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Speaker 1: alien craft. At some point later, Betty sat down with

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Speaker 1: just a piece of eight and a half by eleven

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Speaker 1: paper and drew what she remembered, just the stars. You

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Speaker 1: can remember. There were more stars. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: dots and some of them are circles, and then she

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Speaker 1: draws lines between some of them and some of them

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Speaker 1: have multiple lines. So this is her star map. And

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Speaker 1: she says this is what she saw. And then this

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Speaker 1: woman named Marjorie Fish, who was a public school teacher

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Speaker 1: in Ohio, sees this map and thinks, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: figure out where in the galaxy this map is portraying

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Speaker 1: highly intriguing to say the leaf. She gets the most

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Speaker 1: recent manual of what we know about the stars right now,

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Speaker 1: and in the process going through the parallax catalog, and

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Speaker 1: she turns her living room into this three D star model.

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Speaker 1: The mottel could be built and check inside of a lead.

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Speaker 1: She puts black felt all around everything so there's no

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Speaker 1: light coming in, and she's hanging these beads from her

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Speaker 1: ceiling doing all these really precise measurements going out early

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Speaker 1: starts in the parallax of point view four nine two

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Speaker 1: point view three oh to create areas of the galaxy

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Speaker 1: in her living room. This would take all the stars

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Speaker 1: from sixty light years out to a hundred light years.

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Speaker 1: And then she takes pictures of these beads from these

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Speaker 1: different positions, and what she's trying to do is to

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Speaker 1: get a picture that she can then match up with

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Speaker 1: Betty's map. It's incredibly painstaking work, and I think she

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Speaker 1: did several different models which I've worked out a method

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Speaker 1: to be filed and egan were easier than the christ time.

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Speaker 1: But regardless, she has a hard time of finding a match.

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Speaker 1: And then the new star Atlas comes out with a

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Speaker 1: couple of new stars. I couldn't class her offence. The

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Speaker 1: next day empty catalog and she drops those in and

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Speaker 1: suddenly she finds a match. The main dot on the map,

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Speaker 1: which is where the Ailiens she assumes her coming from,

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Speaker 1: is a place called Sata Reticuli. It's a binary star system.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that she and others found compelling

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Speaker 1: was that they couldn't find a match until two stars

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Speaker 1: that were not known of ine are discovered. There was

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Speaker 1: no way that Betty could have seen another map and

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Speaker 1: drawn this star map on the paper, and she had

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge that that humans didn't have at the time.

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Speaker 1: The guy who's the editor for Astronomy Magazine, which is

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Speaker 1: fairly new at the time, rights this very credulous article

388
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Speaker 1: like this is really weird. If they drew this map

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Speaker 1: and as Zeta Articuli, maybe they did get visited by UFOs.

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Speaker 1: And it gets all this blowback that everywhere in the

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Speaker 1: field wanted to know where they came from. There's this

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Speaker 1: big debate about how seriously you can take it. Carl

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Speaker 1: Sagan gets involved, why would anybody take this seriously? And

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Speaker 1: they eventually put out a special edition of Astronomy Magazine

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Speaker 1: about the star map. Carl Sagan sues them and they

396
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Speaker 1: had to pull it off the shelf, and there's this

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Speaker 1: whole second life to that as well. The coda on

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Speaker 1: all this is that as time went on, we got

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Speaker 1: much more precise readings on where stars were. And before

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Speaker 1: she passed away, Marjorie Fish realized at her star maps

401
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: had just been off. The identification of Stata articular I

402
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: was no longer accurate, which I think just shows like

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00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: how honest her effort was. This is all that I

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00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: have at this time, So sincerely, Marjorie Fish. Regardless of

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00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: the validity of Marjorie's attempt, she helped cement the Hills

406
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Speaker 1: place in history. In addition to doing this star maps stuff,

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Fish worked with Betty to create a sculpture of

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Speaker 1: the head and shoulders of an alien. This is Jor.

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Speaker 1: Betty gave it the name Jr. Yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: cast composite. There's as much different among them between any

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Speaker 1: group of peace. If I say, get a mental image

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Speaker 1: of an alien, you're going to come up with like

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Speaker 1: a little gray guy with big eyes, almost no nose,

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Speaker 1: and like a slit mouth. And that really starts at

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Speaker 1: the Hills. This basic he shows a characteristic so loade

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Speaker 1: your eyes, nose, mouth, no retruding pot. No I am.

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Speaker 1: If you take a look at Junior He's sort of

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Speaker 1: like midway point between a person and the really stylized dailiens.

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Speaker 1: You see now, Junia has been evaluated by I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many physical anthropologists, but what he looks like now,

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Speaker 1: if we continue allowing the path of evolution, this is

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Speaker 1: what we're going to look like in years. Other hallmarks

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Speaker 1: of uf abduction lore also stem from the Hills encounter.

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Speaker 1: In this whole idea that you get brought up or

425
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: brought into the spaceship and they do medical exams on you,

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Speaker 1: their interests in reproduction, the fact that they wipe your

427
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: memories clean. All that stuff starts at the Hills. And

428
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: though Betty and Barney's account became the template for an

429
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: alien abduction narrative, future cases would continue to expand the cannon.

430
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: The second season of Strange Arrivals builds on the premise

431
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: that the discourse around UFOs is a kind of modern folklore.

432
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: M folklore isn't like a pejorative. It's just saying there's

433
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: not an official accepted story, and there's a different way

434
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: that you're getting this information. Then you have to have

435
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: competing stories about what it actually was. The other forces

436
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: been in us to getting Team is looking into the

437
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: ruse of UFO rewards of the taken place in southeastern Music.

438
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Most of the reports that we've gotten with UFOs like

439
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: official government things. One was in the early fifty one

440
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: was in the late sixties. They were both around Project

441
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Blue Book, and both of them were very dismissive of

442
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: UFOs talking. But it seemed so slanted and so unwilling

443
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: to confront things that they maybe couldn't have explained that

444
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: they weren't taken very seriously. This does not give a

445
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: blanket interpretation or a blanket solution to the entire us

446
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: Old phenomenon. In this gap where there's no official, sanctioned understanding,

447
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: there's the opportunity for all these stories to proliferate. Roswell

448
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: is the clearest example of that. It's not the main

449
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: focus of the podcast, but I think most people are

450
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: aware of sort of the general story, which is that

451
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: debris was found on this guy's ranch near as Well,

452
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: New Mexico. There was an initial newspaper report that a

453
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: crash disc had been found to discovery on the ground

454
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: of a number of objects resembling the start thought the

455
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: picture of the debris that was running the paper. It's

456
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: like wood and tape and foil, and it seems pretty

457
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: clearly that it has a human origin. The story that

458
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: came back, which is probably correct, is that it was

459
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: a train of weather balloons that were part of this

460
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: secret project called Project Mogul. One object found on the

461
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: ranch near Roswell, New Mexico, turned out to be a

462
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: battered army weather below. So that was kind of where

463
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: things stood until when a book was published the Roswell Institute,

464
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: it made this case that that was actually just a

465
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: cover story. A cover up was designed so that they

466
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: could say it was a Mulgul balloon or some kind

467
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: of balloon. It was an actual flying saucer. It was

468
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: not anything from this that I'm quite sure of. Alien

469
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: bodies were found. Is it true that bodies of aliens

470
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: have been taken to right Field and an actual live

471
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: alien was recovered and brought to Air Force Base? Well,

472
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: I guess we'll have to order in so something. You've

473
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: got this new story, it conflicts with the old story,

474
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: and then it just starts to balloon out of control.

475
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: There's all these different strings that come from this narrative.

476
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: One of the ones that we follow is that five

477
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: or six years after the crash, the aliens and another

478
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: ship to come and pick up the living, actual terrestrial

479
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: than At that point, there's a treaty signed with President Eisenhower.

480
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: Tonight is science in National Security. And then we send

481
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: a group of astronauts to their planet and we take

482
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: some aliens onto our planet for the server to exchange program.

483
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: It's called Projects Surpo, Rotary scholarships, and then studying the

484
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: must degree in sociology. So that's one example, but that's

485
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: how the folklore works. Throughout these stories, some of them

486
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: go by the wayside, some of them get incorporated and

487
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: the story evolves. Full time professional paranormal investigator and skeptic

488
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: Joe Nichol has theorized a rubric for developing UFO folklore.

489
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: He calls it the Roswellian syndrome, and it's a five

490
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: step process. The first step is a UFO encounter happens

491
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: or UFO study happens. The second step is it's very

492
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: quickly debunked. The third step is it goes underground. It

493
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: doesn't disappear, although it kind of disappears from the public eye,

494
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: and then undergoes these kind of myth making processes. People's

495
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: memories change, things get mixed up with other stories, becomes

496
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: contextualized with other stuff that's happened, and then sometimes it's

497
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: just flat out hoaxing. And then the final stage, the

498
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: fifth stage, it re emerges into the public consciousness in

499
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: this new form that's really armored against the skeptical explanations

500
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: that originally attached to it. The lists four or five

501
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: different well known examples of this happening, and one of

502
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: them is Rentals from Forest Incident, which is the one

503
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: that we focus at at the beginning of season two

504
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: of Strange Rivals. Ryndels from Forests in between these two

505
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Royal Air Force spaces in the East coast of England,

506
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: right off the shore of the North Sea, and when

507
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: you hear the story of it seems really compelling. It

508
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: takes place over three days. It starts Christmas night of

509
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: this couple of US Air Force airmen. Jim Peniston, my

510
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: name is Jim Peniston, the United States Air Force, retired

511
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: in John Burrows, my name is John Burrows, retired United

512
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: States Air Force. See a light come down from the sky.

513
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: You could see glowing multicolored lights over the canopy of

514
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: the forest. They call for some help to go and investigate,

515
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: and they said you need to go up to the

516
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: east gate. Immediately they approach it, get right up to

517
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: where the light source they think is. We get to

518
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: the forest edge and I'm seeing mainly a white light

519
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: coming up from behind the trees, and they ducked behind

520
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: a berm because it seems to be getting writer and

521
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: they don't know what's going to happen. As we came

522
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: up on the top of the berm, we all hit

523
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: the ground. John Burrows says that starts to recede and

524
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: they try and chase it, but they can't catch it.

525
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: Jim Peniston has a much longer detailed story, which is

526
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: at Burrows gets frozen in suspended animation, motionless, just standing

527
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: there looking. Peniston himself goes up over this berm and

528
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: he sees this small triangular craft. The white light disappeared

529
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: completely and the only thing I could see was this

530
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: black craft sitting just above the forest floor. Goes up

531
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: and he like tries to push it. They tried to

532
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: move it with my hands. Didn't look the budge at all,

533
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: just stayed fixed. He's kind of walking around it. Paste

534
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: it off at nine ft and there's these weird hieroglyphics

535
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: writing and period looked like Egyptian type gliss. They seem

536
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: like they were at stin to the side of the craft.

537
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: There's this one very prominent hieroglyphic, the circular one with

538
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: a triangle that he touches. I don't know how long

539
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: I had my hand on that symbol, maybe five seconds.

540
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: And then he gets like this blast of white light,

541
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: and in the wilight I can see like ones in

542
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: zerials one serials, cereals er one one, one server one.

543
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: All I did was just take my hand off it,

544
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 1: and I started gaining my senses. The thing then takes

545
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: off Ian burrows chase that they can't catch it. They

546
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: go back to base. There are some people waiting for

547
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: they reported. They get questioned because I don't know what

548
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: to say at the time. There's certain things that you

549
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: would never say in the Air Force. Are you're going

550
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: to be an end of your career? One of those

551
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: terms is UFO. You don't use that. So I called

552
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: it the craft unknown Origin. This thing goes back home.

553
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: He has a hard time sleeping. He's got all these

554
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: numbers going through his head. Like close my eyes and

555
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: mind's eye, I could see nothing about these ones and zeros.

556
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: So he takes out a notebook. I sit down on

557
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: my dining room table, flips open to the back of

558
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: the notebook when that's the only paper I had. It

559
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: starts writing ones and zeros one erless one one one.

560
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: Writes page after page of ones and zeros to the

561
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: sixteenth page, and they were gone. I couldn't see him.

562
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: The war gets to have his head, goes to sleep.

563
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: It feels better. Second night, there's this really brief encounter

564
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: that people don't know a whole lot about what happened.

565
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: There was on the second line. He disappeared the base

566
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: and immediately but he does not want any of all

567
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: when they scared. You know what, I don't know. The

568
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: third night, there is a party on base. During that

569
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: party of more junior airmen comes in and tells Chuck Halt,

570
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: who's a colonel, who's the deputy base commander. These UFOs

571
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: are back. So Halt pulls together this team of people

572
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: to go out and investigate in the forest, and we'll

573
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: go ahead and see what this is all about. One

574
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind is that these are American

575
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: servicemen tromping around in the woods in British territory, which

576
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: they're not supposed to do, but regardless, they go to

577
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: where the original landing site was supposed to be made,

578
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: capta park. While we were there were trying to figure

579
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: I want to do. I saw a small going orange

580
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: object directly out of the force. Chuck Hold fits on

581
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: knife vision goggles, gets his pupils blasted by this lightrope.

582
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: It keeps disappearing and reappearing to the right, the right, strange.

583
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: They start to chase it to try and find it.

584
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: Lights to still carefully come on. They get out of

585
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: the woods. They see all these lights on the horizon

586
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: pre objects to the north of the sky, multi killer

587
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: objects moving together in synchronization. Really is far. At one

588
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: point there's a beam of flight that comes down to

589
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: the ground. So this takes place over the course of

590
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: two or three hours. Nobody seemed to get excited. The

591
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: command post didn't seem to care too much, so finally

592
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: we were backed it in and went home. Chuck Hole

593
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: reports it and his superior is like, uh, not too

594
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: sure what to do about this. Once you write a

595
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: memo and give it to the British guy who's serving

596
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: charge of the base. So I wrote the anthrom this

597
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: memo by home. I got, there's the end of my career.

598
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 1: The British guys in charge of the base is away

599
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: on vacation, so Halt waits until the guy gets back

600
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: and gives them this memo given a brief summary of

601
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: what had happened. I was never supposed to go anywhere.

602
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: Was supposed to be indocument for him to read it

603
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: and talk from. And the British based commander thought that

604
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: maybe it was some kind of joke. I couldn't figure

605
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: out what to do with it either. We waited and

606
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: waited and waited, and nothing happened. There wasn't really this

607
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: big investigation. It was just they didn't really know what happened,

608
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: and they weren't really all that interested. I was relieved

609
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: to be very honest with you, and that was I

610
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: thought at the end of it. But later the Halt

611
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: memo and the story in general got leaked to the

612
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: British tabloids and it suddenly becomes a sensation in England.

613
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: Great Britain's most incredible UFO encounter, Britain's roswell. And that

614
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: was when skeptical investigators went and took a look. Get

615
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: it and came up with a series of events that

616
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: seems to explain everything that happened. The sighting on the

617
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: first night began with a much brighter than normal shooting star,

618
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: which seemed to descend into the trees as it dropped

619
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: in the sky. The light that Peniston and Burrows saw

620
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: in the woods was actually from the Orfardness Lighthouse several

621
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: miles off at the North Sea coast. The final component

622
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: of the sighting that night was the blue lights in

623
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 1: the forest that were actually from a local police car.

624
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: On the night that Colonel Halt led his group into

625
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: the forest, they again saw the lighthouse, and this time

626
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: they also looked at it through night vision goggles. Later,

627
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: when they were in the field, they mistook stars on

628
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: the horizon for craft in the air. At that point,

629
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: you have that same situation where there's two stories. You

630
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: have this really compelling version of the story with Air

631
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: Force per Sinnell seeing these UFOs and they all saw

632
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: them at the same time, so multiple witnesses and they're

633
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: supposedly trained observers. On the other side, you have these

634
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: investigators give these different elements that seemed to explain it

635
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: that sort of add up to what those people saw,

636
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: but they had to have been mistaken. They had to

637
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: have mistaken these different elements for actual craft. And so

638
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: again there's no settled on story here, right, It's still

639
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: in dispute, and this stuff is still in the tabloids,

640
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: all right. The afterlife of the whole Peniston binary thing

641
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: is that years and years later they were doing a

642
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: TV special and everyone thought about the binary for thirty years.

643
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: And then I'm doing a film shoot for Inchlings Unearthly

644
00:44:51,719 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: Inspirations compelling ordinary people to perform extraordinary acts. And he

645
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: was flipping through his notebook and I flipped it back

646
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: too far, and I have all these ones and serials written.

647
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: Now found the binary code again. I knew about the

648
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 1: ones and zeros. I didn't know it was binary code

649
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: or nothing that says last binary code. I didn't know

650
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: what that was. The production company took it and had

651
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: it decoded. They had the binary turned into alphabet and together,

652
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: and it came out with this really cryptic message, eyes

653
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: of your eyes, you're eight thousands six six six, And

654
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: then it had all these like latitude and longitude coordinates.

655
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: There was seven senses coordinates, which, according to Jim Peniston,

656
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: line up with like the Great Pyramids of Egypt, and

657
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: the Nasca Lines Sedona, Arizona, and something which I had

658
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: never heard of, which is called Irish Atlantis, which is

659
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: apparently like a real legendary place southwest off of the

660
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: Irald middle of the Ocean. He's got this theory that

661
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: the ship wasn't from another planet, it was us. It

662
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: was humans from the future. They're not extras, it's us

663
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: doing interdimensional travel, and that the real message is something

664
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: to do with the relationships between these different coordinates on Earth.

665
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: The raw binary message was not the real message. The

666
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: realness is just in the relationship of these sites around

667
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: the world. So a code within the code. I think

668
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: it's in a way that's so obscure and complicated that

669
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: it's really hard for anybody, but somebody who's just so

670
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: interesting that they want to like spend a hell of

671
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: a lot of time trying to figure it out. To

672
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: follow it just seems way too complicated. It so wet.

673
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: An element that further complicates these myth making processes is

674
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: the treatment a UFOs and extraterrestrials in popular media. There

675
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: is this mutual influence between supposed real UFHOE encounters and

676
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: then media depictions of UFOs can start with Betty and

677
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: Barney Hill, where people are like, where did they get

678
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: that idea of what an alien would look like? People

679
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: point to an episode of The Outer Limits. I cannot

680
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: even understood your language, and also a Twilight Zone episode

681
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: back when the alien costumes were super crude. The masks

682
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: are pretty ridiculous, man, hlast time I saw anything that

683
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: looked like you, I've been four days on the corn

684
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: jug But if you describe that mask and then you

685
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: describe what Betty and Barney Hill saw, the descriptions would

686
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: sound similar. Glad your eyes, no mouth, no protruding cart,

687
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: no I am. So maybe they got that idea subliminally

688
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: from those TVs shows. When you think about the major

689
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: pieces of UFO media, like Close Encounters of the Third

690
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: Kind that was directly influenced by accounts of UFOs. Actually,

691
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: the idea of Close Encounters of the Third Kind comes

692
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: from this guy, Alan Heineck. When how did you get

693
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: involved with UFOs? Quite by accidents and by proproperty? Really,

694
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: who was a scientist who was involved in Project Bluebook

695
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: and uf phone investigation? Wherefore it who didn't incunam and

696
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: I just happened to be a handy firmer. I became

697
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: interested in some of the really oddball cases that we

698
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: clearly didn't have an astronomical explanation of my curiosity with

699
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: the hours how those might be explained. The thing that

700
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: he's probably best known for was coming up with this

701
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: system by which you can classify UFO sightings close encounters

702
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: of the first, second, and third kind. But after close

703
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: encounters there was a wave of more UFO sightings e T.

704
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: The Extra threshold came out later same director. Obviously, when

705
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: I was much younger, I believed that we had been visited.

706
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: I think the X Files is sort of the apex

707
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: of that, taking the folklore that's developed alien abductions and

708
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: government cover ups and hybrids and stuff, and wrapping it

709
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: into a fictional narrative. My name is Fox Molder. Since

710
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: my childhood, I've been obsessed by a controversial global phenomenon.

711
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: A lot of people there are main way of interacting

712
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: with the UFO phenomenon was through Molder and Scullies. What

713
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: our friend from the CIA says, it's true. This can

714
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: blow the lit off one of the biggest national security conspiracies.

715
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: Our friend from the CIA is about as unbelievable as

716
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: his story, as is everything about this case. I mean,

717
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: whatever happened to trust no One Molder. I was such

718
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: a die hard fan of that show and then working

719
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: on this with you for the last couple of years.

720
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: The xpres is like my main reference point. It's clear

721
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: that the people that wrote The X Files did their research,

722
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: knew that scene, knew those stories. There's sort of this

723
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: feeling like you're getting a window on a world that

724
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: exists but that you don't know about. Millions of Americans

725
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: believed in the UFO phenomenon. Some millions less believed they

726
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: had actually seen a UFO, some millions less believed they

727
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: had had contact, but there was interest in the phenomenon.

728
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: I talked to Chris Carter, who, of course as a creator,

729
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: so I had the ideas that I had taken from

730
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: all of the accumulated science and background on alien abduction

731
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: what I would consider to be the foundation of the

732
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,479
Speaker 1: mythology that was based in things that anybody can read.

733
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: Then Glenn Morgan, who's one of the main writers who

734
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: really shaped the series. I wouldn't get a publication every Monday.

735
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: It was called Science News of Findings in the World

736
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: of science that week. You take that science truth and

737
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: another truth and you're trying to fit them together by

738
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: making stuff up. So that's how you make an next FILEL.

739
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: In fact, there's the next filels where a deep throat

740
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: specifically says a lie is the best delivered sandwich between

741
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: two truths. And I see that approach contemporary and other myths. Certainly,

742
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: once it became popular, they must have gotten deluged with

743
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: information from people who wanted to talk to them about stuff.

744
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: But they knew what the folklore around UFOs was at

745
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: the time, and the alien abduction scenario that they have

746
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: is basically right from David Jacobs. I really developed my

747
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: sense of all things UFOs and abductions through reading Dr

748
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 1: John Mack. A myth of religion could evolve from this,

749
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: So that doesn't go against the fact that something physical,

750
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: something actual, is occurring. But Hopkins, let's not try to

751
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: make them overly friendly because they're not, and let's not

752
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: try to make them overly malicious. They're not drinking our

753
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: blood either, and David Jacobs at all, but we pretty

754
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: much know the wrong world. Jacobs really thought it was

755
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: a threat as man fact, I think he called it

756
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: the threat in capitals when they say, hey, c and

757
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: they're not going to like They also had these ideas

758
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 1: about paranoia and conspiracies, secret packs, and the government that's

759
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: not working in your interest. I think because I was

760
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: a child of the Watergate era, I would say, disbeliever

761
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: in what our government was telling us, and they believer

762
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: that they were keeping things from us. So they fit

763
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: in perfect with the UFO literature, which is all about

764
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 1: all the reasons there are for the government to keep

765
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: the truth about extraterrestrial life from the American public, that

766
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: it would upend a lot of the scientific, cultural, religious

767
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: institutions in society. It all seems just beyond your grasp,

768
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: which I think is what makes it kind of brilliant.

769
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: We've been on a whirlwind tour of close encounters this episode,

770
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: but both seasons of strange arrivals lay out in detail

771
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: many more stories, threads, explanations, and mysteries of the UFO phenomenon.

772
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: Throughout my time working on this show. The thing I'm

773
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: most impressed with is just how Toby is able to

774
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: keep it all straight. Modestly, he says, it's just a

775
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: matter of doing your homework. For these cool and weird

776
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: Poe stories, whether you believe them or not, especially hearing

777
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: them in the voices of the people who experience them.

778
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 1: How do you tell it in a way that's fair

779
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: to everybody who's talking to you, both the people who

780
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: witnessed it and the people who think that they are

781
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: mistaken in what they saw, so that neither one of

782
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: those groups gets disrespected. At least for me, it's a

783
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: lot like writing a book. I just do a lot

784
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: of reading about what's the original story, what's the skeptical explanation,

785
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: and then what question is interesting about this story, something

786
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: that's different than is it real or isn't it real?

787
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 1: Then is taking a look at where does that question

788
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: lead you, what do you need to know about and

789
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: figuring out who's an expert in those fields. The other

790
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: part of it is just doing the archival research. For

791
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: Betty and Barney Hill. I had access to the paper archives,

792
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: so I could literally flipped through as much stuff as

793
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: there was. The other thing with Betty and Partney Hill

794
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: is they were just on a hell of a lot

795
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: of radio and TV shows, so there is some remaining

796
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: audio tape and some videotape of them talking about their encounter.

797
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: Betty and I were returning from a vacation troop in

798
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: Canada September nine. Rendalshom is a little bit different in

799
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: that other than this one audio tape that Chuck Halt

800
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: made while he was out in the field was appropiate

801
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: it back in Canadas, these guys were in the Air Force, like.

802
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: They weren't going on radio shows talking about this until

803
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: much much later, and at that point the myth making

804
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: processes that happened. So in that case, just being able

805
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: to interview them was largely the same as them being

806
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: on a TV show or radio show. All through them

807
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: were very generous with their time that allowed me to

808
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: explore some things that maybe they weren't talking about on

809
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 1: TV shows. So by the time I actually get around

810
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: to writing, I tend to have hours and hours and

811
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: hours of transcripts about either the actual event, the investigation

812
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: of the event, or things about those issues. Part of

813
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: it's just critical thinking not to take things at face value,

814
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: but to go into these things that sound compelling but

815
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: seem well beyond what's normal and dig and find out

816
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: what's behind it. What you've end up with is either

817
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: you find that you don't believe it, or you find

818
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 1: that your belief is that much stronger because you've put

819
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: things to the test and they've stood up. That's really

820
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: what science is about. You see something, you can get

821
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: a hypothesis, you test it. I've heard this, it sounds compelling,

822
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: but is there an alternative? Carl Sagan said, Extraordinary claims

823
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: require extraordinary evidence. I think that's what it comes down to.

824
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: Don't believe something because it seems cool, Approach it carefully,

825
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: and if it does turn out to be real, you've

826
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: got that much firmer basis for belief. This episode of

827
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: Ephemeral was written and assembled by Will and produced by

828
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: Trevor Young, Max Williams and Matt Frederick. With a very

829
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: special thanks to my co producers on Strange Arrivals, Miranda

830
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: Hawkins and Josh Thame, and thank you to the artists

831
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: Craig Leon and Eddie Rouche for contributing music to this episode,

832
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: and also to Matt Worth and Sammy Joe Concilia for

833
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: helping make it happen. Here more from Craig Leon's anthology

834
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: of interplanetary folk music at Craig Leon dot band camp

835
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: dot com, and explore the music of Eddie Rouche and

836
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: Secret Circuit at Secret Circuit dot bandcamp dot com links

837
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: to both on our website. Toby Ball is a novelist,

838
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: co host of the podcast Crime Writers On, and creator

839
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: of the podcast Strange Arrivals, whose second season concludes tomorrow.

840
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: Find it wherever you find podcasts, and find us at

841
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: a fem dot show. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,

842
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio at Apple podcast, or wherever

843
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.