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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to forty one,

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Speaker 1: episode four of day production of iHeart Radio. This is

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Speaker 1: a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's

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Speaker 1: shared consciousness. It's Thursday, June. What we got Miles's fudge?

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Speaker 1: National Fudge? Dad, you fudge? That's what I was. I

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Speaker 1: was about to say, a couple of days before National

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Speaker 1: Fudge Day, I I get jump around National Fudge Day.

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Speaker 1: I'm always uh, you know, so sometimes I miss it.

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Speaker 1: But Glen's finally here National Fudge. That do you like fudge? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't dislike fudge. You know. I grew

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Speaker 1: up going to the to a boardwalk on the Jersey

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Speaker 1: shore on a summer league basis, and that was always

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Speaker 1: the free samples of fudge never disappointed, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: the saltwater tappy, which exclusively disappointed. So it's yeah, fudge delivers.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's like, aren't some like so I

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Speaker 1: feel like so packed with sugar, like one bite, right,

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Speaker 1: which is like one bite and you will like start

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Speaker 1: hallucinating from the It's wild because I remember vividly once

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Speaker 1: eating a piece of it's so fast and like my

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Speaker 1: grandmother being disturbed. Yeah, I mean, like, how the fund

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Speaker 1: did you just eat all that? And I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 1: a child who loves sugar and this might be the

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Speaker 1: best thing I've ever had. Yeah. Well, anyways, my name

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Speaker 1: is Jack O'Brien, a k keeping track of all the

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Speaker 1: Mountain Dew flavors and the January six hearings. Call me

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Speaker 1: Count Dookup. That's courtesy of Chris Berrera, and I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be joined as always by my co host, Mr

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Speaker 1: Miles Grab. All the other kids with go zumped up scoops,

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Speaker 1: better run, better run you're dirt before I hear it.

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Speaker 1: All the other kids with go zumped up scoops, better

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Speaker 1: run better rum before my Lloyd swears it. Shout out

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Speaker 1: to Scouty Magoo. Reference to that really awesome was the

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Speaker 1: Sydney Morning Harold going after Morning Harold, we will track

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Speaker 1: you out if they were pissed that somebody outed themselves

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Speaker 1: before they could go zumping their story. Well, Miles, we

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Speaker 1: are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by

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Speaker 1: the host of the American Prestige podcast, which is a

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Speaker 1: foreign policy podcast about the United States and all the

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Speaker 1: friends that made along the way. A really great listen.

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Speaker 1: I suggest everybody go check it out. They are Daniel

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Speaker 1: Bessner and Derek Davison. What's up, hey, guys, Happy to

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Speaker 1: be guys, Happy to be here. Thanks for having us.

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Speaker 1: Good to hey, thank you for being here. Yeah, where

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Speaker 1: you come to us? From Los Angeles, California? At a park? Okay,

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Speaker 1: northern Virginia. I'm the only person living here who was

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Speaker 1: in a defense contractor alright, that we know of, My

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Speaker 1: understand because you wouldn't be allowed to tell us if

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Speaker 1: you were like in the Actually, that's yeah, screw here.

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Speaker 1: Today we will try not to gazump it, although you know,

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Speaker 1: the defense Department might come through. Had you guys ever

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Speaker 1: heard that phrase gazump or that word? I just heard

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Speaker 1: it for the first time. Yeah, is it a thing

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Speaker 1: the kids are saying? I feel like, why, why the

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Speaker 1: funk have I heard gazump before? I can't be alone ever,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Professor Madden. None of my kids have ever

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Speaker 1: accused me of kazumping or I've never heard each other

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Speaker 1: you know each other? Is that bad? I mean, maybe

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Speaker 1: you're not cool enough to be gazumping? How dare you? Derek?

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, I mean, Miles is young, and you

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Speaker 1: get to an age where there's there's a very good

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Speaker 1: chance that like people know not to say gazump to

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Speaker 1: us maybe, but they're like this guy looks like no,

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Speaker 1: it's like reason, I'm thinking UK English or something, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like that's why we're not here

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Speaker 1: because it's not like a cool word. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I just know definitely, Yeah, it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: That's really funny cool. Yeah. So Daniel you are a professor,

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Speaker 1: and Derek you write about foreign policy. I'll just you guys.

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Speaker 1: You guys know your ship, which it's important to establish

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Speaker 1: up top. There's a slight contrast where we are not experts.

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Speaker 1: We know about we know about mountain dew, we know

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Speaker 1: about we know about basketball, and we know something is

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Speaker 1: terribly afoot in this country. That's about it. But I

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Speaker 1: mean those are all important things to know. Exactly nothing

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Speaker 1: on the road to a new level of consciousness. I

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Speaker 1: would say, by the way, I do want to just

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Speaker 1: kind of put it out there for our listeners. I

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Speaker 1: will be doing a mountain dew tasting tomorrow. I will

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Speaker 1: have a spit bucket and I will be doing a

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Speaker 1: mountain dew tasting of a couple of new flavors, so

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Speaker 1: after the headiness of today's episode, you can look forward

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Speaker 1: to that. I think we've got thrashed Apple and we

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Speaker 1: got another new flavor. So they're doing the extreme nineties

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Speaker 1: things still radical Blueberry, the nineties are alive in the hill.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're gonna get to know you guys

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Speaker 1: a little bit better in a moment. First, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: tell our listeners a couple of things we're talking about

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Speaker 1: just off the rip. I'm gonna be like, hey, like,

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Speaker 1: is there any hope for a leftist movement in the US? Hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys, you guys know stuff. Is there any hope?

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Speaker 1: Because yeah, I'm just genuinely curious. That's something that comes

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Speaker 1: up pretty frequently, just the lack of a revolutionary imagination

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Speaker 1: in the US. So I want to get you guys

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Speaker 1: thoughts on that. We'll talk about Coachella Night three. We

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Speaker 1: got louder Milk, which is a great name, and he

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Speaker 1: apparently gave some insurrectionists a tour the night before January

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Speaker 1: six and no big deal, nothing to see here, but

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Speaker 1: it says the cops, and you're like, wait, hold on,

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Speaker 1: what uh okay? But so we'll talk about plenty more,

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Speaker 1: but first we do like to ask our guests Daniel Derek,

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Speaker 1: what is something from your search histories? So I was

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Speaker 1: searching a book Town, which is an Austrian pastry, because

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Speaker 1: one of my good friends, Megan Day, one of the

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Speaker 1: best writers on the left today she writes for Jacobin,

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Speaker 1: is in Vienna, so I was looking up things for

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Speaker 1: her to see. She went to Freud's house, but I

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Speaker 1: also thought she needed to get a little sweet in there.

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Speaker 1: And that is an opercot filled bun called book Town.

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Speaker 1: So if anyone ever goes to Vienna, strongly recommend you

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Speaker 1: get it. What's what's the described the bund of the pastry.

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Speaker 1: It's like a it's like a kind of a popover,

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Speaker 1: like if a Southern popover, but it's filled with fresh

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Speaker 1: apricot jelly uh. And it was at this famous cafe

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Speaker 1: I believe called the Cafe Havevelka, where like all the

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Speaker 1: Viennese intellectuals used to eat, and it's still around. It's

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Speaker 1: in the center of the city and it's honestly the

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Speaker 1: best pastry I've ever had in my life. It's truly fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Europeans really do a good pastry. Yeah, I believe in

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Speaker 1: France and a name for like small patrites is pastries

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Speaker 1: is vien Wase because the ends have really good pastries.

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Speaker 1: And also I would recommend the zacher tort if you're

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Speaker 1: ever there. It's also really good stuffy the Spanish and

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Speaker 1: pan Idea is Spain. I don't think it's very known

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Speaker 1: for their pastries. But man, that ship is is really good.

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Speaker 1: You put you put a piece of paper on it, it

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Speaker 1: it immediately becomes c through, you know. But and it's

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Speaker 1: filled with things that like don't typically go together and

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Speaker 1: my day to day diet like olives, eggs, tuna, tomatoes,

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Speaker 1: tomato paste, and it just fucking really goes. It's really good.

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Speaker 1: I like that you said that it passed the Simpsons

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Speaker 1: dr Nick test, like when home as trying to gain

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Speaker 1: the weight. If it's like yeah, I rub it and

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Speaker 1: if it goes see through, it's good a wall and

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Speaker 1: the wall became yeah that I'll always remember that. It

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Speaker 1: turns things through. Derek, how about you with something from

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Speaker 1: your search history allow us to pry into your privacy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I googled the plot of the new Jurassic Park movie.

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Speaker 1: This is something I do when with with sequels. When

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Speaker 1: I've like seen one of the movies, like the first

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Speaker 1: movie or whatever, but I have no desire to see

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Speaker 1: the sequel. But I'm still like morbidly curious what the

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Speaker 1: story is. So I just like spoiled myself. And then

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Speaker 1: I have no desire to actually go to the movies

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Speaker 1: and say, I have that same morbid curiosity. And it

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Speaker 1: drew you in just when you thought you were out,

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Speaker 1: miles just and I thought I was out, Hammond's ghost

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Speaker 1: pulls me back in. Damn John Hammond. It was so bad,

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Speaker 1: wasn't really okay? Yeah, but so so I did the

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Speaker 1: right thing then googling, I love a Jurassic Park movie,

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Speaker 1: like because the first one is so good. I will

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Speaker 1: suffer every single one in the theater. I have the same, like,

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Speaker 1: like the same philosophy with Terminator films, like I will

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Speaker 1: go to the theater. I don't care. I don't even

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Speaker 1: if it's so year that it's bad from the trailer,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, it's still, it's still, it's still a moment.

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Speaker 1: So I go. But this one has like a Tim

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Speaker 1: Cook analog in it that is so fucking weird, and

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Speaker 1: just the it touches on like what if there were dinosaurs,

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Speaker 1: and then we're all back to a contained dinosaur thriller

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Speaker 1: like every other fucking Jurassic Park movie, Like like they

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Speaker 1: just stick there. They're in the Dolomites in Italy, like

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Speaker 1: in the mountains of Italy. There's I'm like, wait, hold on, now,

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Speaker 1: we're in fucking Italy with dinosaurs, and I'm like whatever, fine,

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Speaker 1: fuck it, is there any cool stuff up top with

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Speaker 1: the like world now run by people being like just

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Speaker 1: fleeing from dinosaurs. Yeah. The film opens with different news

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Speaker 1: stories about our new world of you know, cohabitating with

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Speaker 1: dinosaurs and what do we do with them? So like

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Speaker 1: first it'll be like little cutie dinosaurs out a parking

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Speaker 1: like wow, And than other ones were like a fucking

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Speaker 1: stegga source like blows up a gas truck and you're

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Speaker 1: like yeah. So it's like that part. I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is great, this is great. Yeah, wait is this

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Speaker 1: going to be good? Yeah? But you couldn't so for you, Derek,

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Speaker 1: like you just saw it and you like it enough

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Speaker 1: that you want to know what happened, but not enough

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Speaker 1: to subject yourself to two hours. But your i mean,

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Speaker 1: your relationship with Jurassic Park sounds like mine. With Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen every whatever they've been eleven now,

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Speaker 1: even though like you know, maybe two of them were good.

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Speaker 1: I've seen everyone anyway, and it's like, weird, how things

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Speaker 1: from the eighties or nineties I'll just pledge these blind

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Speaker 1: allegiances to and I'm like, I am a guaranteed ticket

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Speaker 1: sold for all of your terrible fucking output. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's because there's no outlet for politics, so we

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Speaker 1: just poured into culture. That's it's really going on there.

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Speaker 1: You know, back in the day, people used to find

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Speaker 1: meeting and associations and politics, but since there's really I

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Speaker 1: think a lack of mass politis x today intact. That

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Speaker 1: might answer your question a little bit, is just we

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Speaker 1: par all of our meaning into these cultural products that

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Speaker 1: we we saw when we were kids, and they made

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Speaker 1: us feel good, and we keep on trying to make it.

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Speaker 1: We keep on trying to hit that sort of like

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Speaker 1: heroin dopamine button, and each time it's a little less.

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Speaker 1: It's a little less. Yeah, because yeah, if you look

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Speaker 1: at Jurassic Park as a vein, you'd shoot up into

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Speaker 1: the first one healthiest ship. That motherfucker was popping out

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Speaker 1: and by Jurassic World dominion. You're like, man, maybe there's

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Speaker 1: some ship on the bottoms of my feet. I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're going through the carpet just looking for anything matching

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Speaker 1: up little piece of flint stone vitamins on Like a

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Speaker 1: good heroin metaphor, I like to just keep it going,

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Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, you know you're running as long

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Speaker 1: as possible. Yeah, that's what so I I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that because I will be proposing my

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Speaker 1: idea to have Ryan Johnson lead the leftist revolution the

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Speaker 1: director of the Last Jedi, because there has been more

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Speaker 1: anger and energy around uh, the Last Jedi than I

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Speaker 1: think maybe, Yeah, any any political movement in my lifetime?

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Speaker 1: Whoever directed R R R too? Did you watch it? Um?

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Speaker 1: That's just fucking three I'm it's three hours, but it

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Speaker 1: flies by five minutes left, so it's but it's all

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Speaker 1: that to say, I cannot stop watching it. Yeah, have

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Speaker 1: you guys seen our R R? But I hear it's amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet either, but I like Danny,

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Speaker 1: I've heard the best pretty well. What is something you

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Speaker 1: guys think is overrated? Daniel? Let's start with you the

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Speaker 1: American Empire. Mm hmm, okay, all right, I mean we're

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Speaker 1: we're pro American empire in this podcast. What are you

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Speaker 1: trying to say? Man? Whatever? Bro Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of the just to get into our little podcast

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Speaker 1: a bit. One of the reasons that we actually started

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Speaker 1: it is because we think there's kind of a fawning

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Speaker 1: coverage in the mainstream media about what the United States

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Speaker 1: does in the world, And ultimately there's this belief that

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Speaker 1: I I as a historian, think has been empirically proven incorrect,

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Speaker 1: that the United States is military and economic power is

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Speaker 1: going to be able to make the world a better place.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people really still believe that,

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Speaker 1: and they believe that out of the goodness of their hearts.

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Speaker 1: But I just think for reasons we could go into

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Speaker 1: that that's really not the case. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that's really one of the most overrated things in American

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Speaker 1: politics today. And do you think people still actually, like

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Speaker 1: genuinely believe this. This is actually like I did. I

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Speaker 1: did like a twenty minute chunk about how weird the

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Speaker 1: like I hadn't listened to MPR in a number of years,

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Speaker 1: and then I like started listening to MPR, and I

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Speaker 1: was just like so taken by how weird the voices,

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Speaker 1: And I think that like there's like some weird cognitive

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Speaker 1: dissonance like thing happening with neoliberals and like that, I

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Speaker 1: think they're like starting to understand like that it's all bad,

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Speaker 1: but they can't, and so like now they have to

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Speaker 1: like be talked to like this, and they have to

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Speaker 1: like have people explain the conflict in Ukraine to them,

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Speaker 1: like it's a fun wine picnic that they're planning, and like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like more and more people it's like creeping

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Speaker 1: in a little bit absolutely, because it's just hard to deny.

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Speaker 1: I do think there's a big generational gap, but even

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Speaker 1: if you look at statistics, I think I might get

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Speaker 1: this wrong, but it's something like of millennials still think

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Speaker 1: the United States should like run the world. That's pretty

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Speaker 1: high still, you know, roughly one and two, and if

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Speaker 1: you go to boomers, it's like way higher. So I

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Speaker 1: think I think the way that I view it, it's

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Speaker 1: more the background assumption the water people swim in the air,

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Speaker 1: that they breathe. It's not something that they think about

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Speaker 1: because I think very smartly the United States Imperial State

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Speaker 1: in the early seventies ended the draft. So if you're

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Speaker 1: like a normal person, you're really not going to encounter

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Speaker 1: the military and any way, shape or form really in

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Speaker 1: your life. And so it just allows the Empire just

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Speaker 1: kind of humm along in the back round. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: I think there's an unquestioned support or an unthinking support

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Speaker 1: for what we do in the world. Another piece of

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Speaker 1: propaganda that I think is very reflective this is the

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Speaker 1: new Top Gun movie, where wherein it's just they don't

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Speaker 1: even pretend to mention another country, Like I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty clearly irun but like they are just like these

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Speaker 1: are the bad guys. They can't have nuclear weapons. We

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Speaker 1: we blow them up and it's just just baked in there,

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Speaker 1: so like faceless. It's like a target range with just

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Speaker 1: like bad guy pop up. You know. I think, I

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Speaker 1: think so. And we actually just uh we did a

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Speaker 1: special episode with Chappo trap House on our podcast. We

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Speaker 1: did Top Gun one on their podcast, we did Top

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Speaker 1: Gun two or One of the things that's interesting about

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Speaker 1: that is that that's kind of how Americans view the world, right.

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Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't matter who they are, We're just

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Speaker 1: gonna do whatever the fun because we're America, got damnit,

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Speaker 1: we're the main character exactly, And so I think like

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Speaker 1: that could be read as a form of critique. I

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Speaker 1: don't think the intention of critique was there, but you know,

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Speaker 1: from a postmodernist, the author is dead, so let's just

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Speaker 1: say it's a critique. Let's do it. How about you, Derek,

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Speaker 1: what's something you think is overrated? So I didn't, I

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Speaker 1: didn't take this as seriously. Danny and I kept with

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Speaker 1: the movie, stuck with the movie theme. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: saw that, like the the live action A Laddin was

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Speaker 1: on TV the only night, and I just thought, like,

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Speaker 1: these these live action Disney remakes, I haven't seen one

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Speaker 1: that was better than the like nineteen nineties cartoon. And

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Speaker 1: I just don't get it. I don't get that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know they make a ton of money. I get

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Speaker 1: why they get made, but I just don't get why

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Speaker 1: people care to go see them. So I think they're

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Speaker 1: I think they're overrated. Laddin, the live action Laddin just

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Speaker 1: didn't pull out those heart strings. No, I mean it

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Speaker 1: really didn't. And like, I mean, you know, I saw

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Speaker 1: I went to see the I remember like going to

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Speaker 1: the movies to see the Beauty and the Beast remake

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Speaker 1: because my daughter was at that time of the age

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Speaker 1: where she was into that kind of thing and just

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Speaker 1: watching it, and the whole time I couldn't stop going like,

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Speaker 1: why did why did this have to be made like this?

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Speaker 1: What was the purpose of making this? And in the

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Speaker 1: in the minds of the people who did it, like

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Speaker 1: what were they fixing about the the original? And you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't think about it think of it? Right? Did

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Speaker 1: they mention a country at all? Or is it similar

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Speaker 1: like broadly orientalist Space and Aladdin, because selection I don't

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Speaker 1: think they mentioned a country. It's a mix between Arabia

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Speaker 1: and like Pakistani. Well, the original gotten in a in

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Speaker 1: a ton of trouble they had to like overdub lines

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Speaker 1: and stuff because it was it was a little bit yeah,

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Speaker 1: hey hey it's bar Basis. Yeah, that's where it's from,

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Speaker 1: the places called Agaba in the in the in the

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Speaker 1: animated version. Yeah, and it's like the taj Mahal, but

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Speaker 1: but in Arabia kind of. Yeah, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: real just a mixing of Muslim cultures. Don't worry over there,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you guys remember a few years ago

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Speaker 1: somebody ran a pole and they asked like people they

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Speaker 1: would bomb a particular country, and they included a like

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Speaker 1: a third of Republicans said they would support bombing the

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Speaker 1: nation of Agriba. Yeah, making a democracy. You know, the

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Speaker 1: the sultan is a monarchy. You gotta turn Agraba into

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Speaker 1: a democracy. What is something you guys think is under rated? Well,

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Speaker 1: so I can go here because I have actually I

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Speaker 1: think I have a serious one for this. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: was I when I studied when I was in grad school,

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Speaker 1: I studied Islamic history and one of my favorite figures

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Speaker 1: in Islamic history is a guy named Hibbin but Tuta,

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Speaker 1: who is was a traveler in the fourteenth century and

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Speaker 1: traveled farther if if you believe all of his accounts,

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Speaker 1: traveled farther than anybody else has ever traveled, basically in

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Speaker 1: world history before modern times when you could like hop

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Speaker 1: on a plane. And it was just yesterday was his

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Speaker 1: the anniversary of the beginning of his hodge, which he

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Speaker 1: started from Morocco a tangier and then just kept going

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Speaker 1: after he did the hodge all the way to China

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Speaker 1: and back. And I don't think enough people know about him.

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Speaker 1: I think he's very underrated, underrated guy for having traveled

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Speaker 1: supposedly seventy three thousand some something like seventy three thousand

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Speaker 1: miles in his lifetime, although it's possible he made up

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Speaker 1: parts parts of his parts of his travel loog, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know. Yeah, that's my favorite thing about the

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Speaker 1: history of like explorers and like, you know, the people

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Speaker 1: who we lionize, those great explorers. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: this is the case with him, but like a lot

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Speaker 1: of European explorers, you know, you look at the things

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Speaker 1: they were claiming to have seen and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you guys are just like professional liars, right right, right,

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Speaker 1: And then they were met the three headed people of

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Speaker 1: the Amazon who were thirteen feet tall, and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's wild man, but you'll never get there. Love Marco Polo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, this guy definitely traveled a lot. But

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Speaker 1: there are some parts of his account, like the China

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Speaker 1: parts and a couple of other kind of side trips

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Speaker 1: that that some historians think he may have just cribbed

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Speaker 1: for somebody else's descriptions travelers named Eben, you know, because

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Speaker 1: I I studied Viking history and there's uh, who's like

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Speaker 1: a big one. Yes, yeah, Eve been his son. It's

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Speaker 1: like Ben and here there is. But yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: was thinking of him as a guy who's like yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then I went up the Vulgar River and met

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Speaker 1: the Vikings. You know what the fuck? Yeah, the North.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna put it out there traveler as

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Speaker 1: a as a profession just like hello, friend, I'm just

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Speaker 1: a fellow traveler. I feel like that's always a nice

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Speaker 1: mysterious thing to say that I've never thought too as

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Speaker 1: it's hard to do now as I mean, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was able to like go places, and he had

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Speaker 1: training as a lawyer, so he or you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of judge like legal training, so he was able to

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Speaker 1: get like notes of good conduct all along the way.

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Speaker 1: To say like this guy knows what he's doing and

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Speaker 1: he could get jobs wherever he went. It's like a

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Speaker 1: it's a scholar or a judge. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Nowadays people get like go fund memes or something to

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Speaker 1: like pay for my trip or whatever. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the modern startment is of that. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: for your travel blog, right, parachhoote sheets pays for your

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Speaker 1: travel whatever? How about you ding Derek took mine. No,

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Speaker 1: just kidding. I was gonna recommend a book called The

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Speaker 1: Tragedy of American Diplomacy. It's a really short book on

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Speaker 1: US foreign policy, but I think it really gets sort

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Speaker 1: of at the major trends by guy the hell of

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Speaker 1: a name, William Appleman Williams. So I recommend people to

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Speaker 1: check that out William Appleman Williams. Hell. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: aside from what's for you, what sort of differentiates it

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Speaker 1: and why do you why do you suggest it? Because

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Speaker 1: it really shows the economic basis of a lot of

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Speaker 1: US foreign policy, the search for export markets, uh, the

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Speaker 1: search for capital intensive development aid and things like that,

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Speaker 1: and so it was really influential when it was released

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Speaker 1: in the teen fifties. And it's just like a very

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Speaker 1: short and very readable book that explores why the hell

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Speaker 1: the United States does what it does in the world.

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Speaker 1: So it tells you how the world actually works. Yes,

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Speaker 1: how the world. If it was released today would be

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Speaker 1: like how how the world actually works? One of those

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Speaker 1: like slate pitch titles, how to explain through this one

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Speaker 1: cool thing how the United States does everything in the world.

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Speaker 1: I believe slate pits that's probably a dated reference now,

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Speaker 1: and that's an elder millennial reference. The kids are gonna

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Speaker 1: be like what the funk is slate. So we'd like

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Speaker 1: to actually make this part of the Freakonomics franchise if possible,

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Speaker 1: Mr Williams, it will be Economic Form Market Williams. Mr

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Speaker 1: Appleman Williams. Yeah, I mean the apple in his name

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Speaker 1: could go with the logo of freakonomics. Oh yeah, you

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Speaker 1: could do w apple w There you go. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. We'll be right back and

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Speaker 1: we're back. I was gonna say, and we're good. We're good.

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Speaker 1: So something we cover a lot on the show is

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Speaker 1: just like the lack of a revolutionary imagination or like

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Speaker 1: an imagination for an alternative for how the US could

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Speaker 1: work with that without the current form of like hyper capitalism.

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Speaker 1: And then we also have talked about I've like kind

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Speaker 1: of positive the theory that like they're the public is

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Speaker 1: generally just out on the current state of things, like

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Speaker 1: after the like two thousand and eight collapse and then

423
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: just the continued persistent like evidence of the like the

424
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: whole thing. It's just corruption all the way down and

425
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: we're being given like I think logically we should have

426
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: two options. One would be leftist alternative or like a

427
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: socialist alternative, and the other is fascism. And it feels

428
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: like sometimes fashion fascism is the only one that's like

429
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: fielding a team in in the modern world, which scares me.

430
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,479
Speaker 1: So I don't know, you guys cover all sorts of

431
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: very interesting stuff. You're you're very learned, but you you know,

432
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: you've covered the history of leftist revolutionaries and you know

433
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: countries that are more socialists in the US. So I

434
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: just I just wanted to like kind of put that

435
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: subject out there too. Yeah. Sure, well, I have a

436
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts about this. It's kind of what I

437
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: focus on in my academic work. So I think there's

438
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: a lot of things you got to focus on. One,

439
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: things that we've been talking about in the general discourse,

440
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: of course, like the Senate and the counter majoritarian institutions

441
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: of the United States, like the Supreme Court are kind

442
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: of baked into the cake from the beginnings, because there's

443
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: a skepticism of democracy and the mass just baked into

444
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: the cake of the American state. And I think over

445
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: the course of the twentieth century, what has happened um

446
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: particularly after World War Two, is that the actually exist

447
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: sting American state that has been developed, particularly when we're

448
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: talking about US foreign policy and US economic policy, has

449
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: been specifically designed in a way to ensure that both

450
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: ordinary people what you just called the public, but also

451
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: Congress doesn't really have that much of an effect on

452
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: on foreign policy and economic policy. And this was actually,

453
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: this is the period I studied. This was actually a

454
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: conscious decision made by American elites because when they were

455
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: looking at the nineteen thirties, they saw the rise of

456
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: fascism in Europe, they saw the rise of you know,

457
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: imperialism in Japan, they saw in response to the Great Depression,

458
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: a lot of labor strikes at home, and they became

459
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: very skeptical of mass politics because it's really in the

460
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties when you have the first type of real

461
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: mass politics, like the radio and all of those sorts

462
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: of things allow people to form large collectivities. So over

463
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the course of the twenties and thirties, they become very

464
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: skeptical of this, and so from the nineteen forties on,

465
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: where they create a state in which ordinary people don't

466
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: really have that much say. And I think that's the

467
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: experience that we're living in today. It's just it's just

468
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: evolved into other directions. And so I wrote actually a

469
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: piece for Derek's Substract Foreign Exchanges called the End of

470
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: mass Politics, because I think one of the reasons that

471
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: everyone feels like they're going crazy today is that all

472
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: we do is talk about politics, but there's very little

473
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: actual road to make political transformations. I said at the

474
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: beginning of the of the show, this is why people

475
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: are really interested in culture, but it's also why people

476
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: are really interested in fighting online, because there's no real

477
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: way to actually channel your political energies into something meaningful.

478
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: So we're thinking about a leftist revolution or a change

479
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: in actual like fundamental structures of the United States. I

480
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: think we need to do like an old school nineteen

481
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: thirties power mapping and see where power lies. And right now,

482
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: in the literal structure of the American state, power literally

483
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: lies with several thousand people living in and around Washington,

484
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: d c. Both in the government, like in places like

485
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: the State Department and the Defense Defense Department, and then

486
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: in nominally private institutions like think tanks, which are really

487
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: just analogs of the government. So I think we need

488
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: to really reform the structure before we could even start

489
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: talking about making actual political and policy changes. So I

490
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: think the lack of revolutionary consciousness and the channeling of

491
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: a lot of these energies into you know, ephemeral culture,

492
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: you know, ephemeral arguing is just really a product of

493
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: the literal reality that there's very few ways for us

494
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: to actually shape politics. And I think that is what

495
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: we need to be focusing on right now, actually making

496
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: this country a democracy in a real way, actually bringing

497
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: mass politics back cool. So how do we do that?

498
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: Star One is identify the problem seriously. I think I

499
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of magical thinking on the left.

500
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: I think we we uh. The way that I put

501
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: it in this is a little harsh and being a

502
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: little bit facetious, but like when we don't have an answer,

503
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: we say organized right. But when we say organized right,

504
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: what does that mean? When people were organizing in previous

505
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: moments in American history, they were organizing with like the

506
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: guy or the woman that they spent all day living

507
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: next to, working next to, in a real community. What

508
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: capital has done over the last forty years is really

509
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: reform labor relations so that you have things like the

510
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: gig economy, you have things like where people are working

511
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: three jobs that prevent the solidarity upon which actional organization relies.

512
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: So I think what the first thing to do is

513
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: really just take a step back and look at how

514
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: power actually functions, and look at how society actually functions,

515
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: and from there we could begin to develop actual strategies

516
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: for how we can reform some of these very very

517
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: um significant obstacles to any form of left wing organizing

518
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: or left wing transformation. I think the problem also is

519
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: the fact is that right now the left is really

520
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: concentrated and basically people who went to college, people who

521
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: are relatively highly educated. So there's a significant disconnect from

522
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: the working class base, which is partially a function of

523
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: this reformulation of labor relations that we really need to

524
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: attack head on or there's very little hope I think

525
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: for left wing transformation. M Derek any thoughts, Well, I

526
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: would see us on all. I would kind of grab

527
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: onto something, uh you talked about there, which was the

528
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: concept of solidarity, which used to mean something I feel

529
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: like just like sort of organized. It doesn't mean anything anymore. Um.

530
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: The only times I, you know, most of the time

531
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: I heard the word solidarity uses when somebody is scolding

532
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: the left in the US for not taking some foreign

533
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: policy catastrophy seriously enough. So there was a lot of

534
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: this talk with respect to Syria. You see it sometimes

535
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 1: with Ukraine. Now, you know, the sort of like, uh,

536
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: you're not doing it right, You're not approaching these issues

537
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: with the right mindset. Well, okay, and then you know

538
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: you sort of say, what do you what do you

539
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: is it that you would like the left to do?

540
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: And the answer is always something like solidarity without any

541
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: meaning behind it, like we're just supposed to feel solidarity

542
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: would feel harder, Yeah, feel harder. I mean, that's that's

543
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: really what a lot of this is. It's vibes politics.

544
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: It's not real material politics. It's vibes. You know. I

545
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: I I have little hope for a true leftist movement

546
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: in the US, and even less despite you know, I

547
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: know you you guys uh, you know, have talked about

548
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: Gabrielle borich In in Chile and and some of the

549
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: other kind of Latin American leftists that have come into

550
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: power again. It's sort of it's been a little bit

551
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: of a wave of late those those movements are are

552
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: you know that they're great as far as they go.

553
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: They're sort of optimistic as far as they go. But

554
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: it's the United States that, ultimately, especially in the Western hemisphere,

555
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: sets the terms for how far any movement like that

556
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: is allowed to go before there's some kind of pulled back.

557
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: And in the Cold War, you know, that would have

558
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: been a coup and and you know, possibly the murder

559
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: of whoever was being a pain in the as leftist.

560
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Now it's sanctions, it's you know, Cuba, the Cuba Venezuela model.

561
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: You know, you can you can see it even in

562
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: the leftists who have been elected over the last couple

563
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: of years, you know, really like sort of self moderating

564
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: in a sense. You know, they run with these backgrounds

565
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: that are of the left, but they run campaign they

566
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: were on campaigns where the messages don't worry, I'm not

567
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: gonna like change that much. I'm not going to nationalize anything.

568
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: We're just gonna kind of make some reforms around the edges.

569
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: And that message is meant for domestic political audiences, but

570
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: it's also meant for the US and it's also meant

571
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: for Washington, like don't worry, I'm not going to rock

572
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: the boat too much. You know, have to treat me

573
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: like Nicholas Maduro or or the Castros so I I

574
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think as long as the United States

575
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: maintains the kind of power that it has to affect

576
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: global politics, and I don't mean like geopolitics, like politics,

577
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: domestic politics and countries around the world, you know, there's

578
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: always going to be a cap on on how far

579
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: these things are allowed to go, at least in countries

580
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: that are dependent on the US, whether it's for trade

581
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: or vulnerable to you know, depend on the US for

582
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: military support, or are vulnerable to the U S and

583
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: a sick charity sense, there's always going to be this

584
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: limit on how far they can go. Do you are

585
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: you guys like encouraged by that kind of energy behind

586
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: unions right now? Like I've so one thing that like

587
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: sticks out to me that that I hear from like

588
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: people on the left even is that like the Sanders

589
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: campaign and like the inability to to get Sanders the

590
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: nomination in was like that was the last chance and

591
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: now like it's kind of hopeless from this point forward,

592
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: and like it feels like the just the general you know,

593
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: the thing that we try to track on this podcast,

594
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: the general exeity guys, the Americans shared consciousness like is

595
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: moving in the direction like of socialism. Like older people

596
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: are dying every day, and like young people are turning

597
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: eighteen every day, and like their general outlook on the

598
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: world not perfect means, but definitely more sympathetic and like

599
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: there's more energy on that front, and like that does

600
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: you know that seems to be the thing that fuels

601
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: these sorts of movements, is like the students, just because

602
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: there's like a reputation that like, well, students don't vote

603
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: in America. It's like, well, probably for very good reasons,

604
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: like to this point, but like, I don't know, it

605
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: just feels like there are things to be optimistic about

606
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: within America, at least in terms of like improving the

607
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: odds and improving the chances that we can like get

608
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: socialist reform like in the country. But yeah, I don't,

609
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I don't have the specifics of

610
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: like how that is done. And it does seem like

611
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: you know the fact that you like identified the deep state,

612
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: well that's something that like is being identified as a

613
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: as a problem and like a holder of power, but

614
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: it's being identified by like the fascists, you know, absolutely, Yeah,

615
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's always room for optimism and

616
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: there's always room for hope, because that's just the reality.

617
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the empirical realities that things change over time.

618
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: My historian things change over time, so it's never I

619
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: don't view what we're saying as black billing necessarily. I

620
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: just view it as trying to take a realistic, strategic

621
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: look at the situation in order to change it. I

622
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: think a couple of things need to be recognized. The

623
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: era of you know, great revolutions of the first half

624
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. In the second half of the

625
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, a lot of that was spurred by literal

626
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 1: things like starvation and food. And one of the great

627
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 1: developments of the twentieth century is the green revolution, which

628
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: allowed us to produce a ton of calories for cheap.

629
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: So that's a big shift, and I think that that's

630
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: not that's not something to be to be underestimated. The

631
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: fact that people aren't hungry, the fact that in fact,

632
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: in fact, across the class spectrum you could eat a

633
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: lot of calories for relatively cheap is actually a huge

634
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: obstacle in in in in front of revolution. Um. I

635
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: think that's also true for cheap entertainments. But one of

636
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: my big predictions that I've been making in the isn't

637
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: that the next five and fifty years are going to

638
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: see the legalization of a lot of vice, things like

639
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: sex work, things like drugs, because I think that's going

640
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: to be a solved on revolutionary political energy. Is It's

641
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: not gonna be a conscious choice. It's just going to

642
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: be something that's going to happen. You're gonna have vice,

643
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have cheap food, and that those two

644
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: are really big obstacles in favor revolution of revolution um. Now,

645
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: in terms of the of younger people, that that's generally true,

646
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: but a lot of the reason that's true is because

647
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: younger people have time. And one of the things that

648
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: capitalism does very effectively is that the penalty for not

649
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: being in the system is like so bad. It's being unhoused,

650
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: it's not having access to healthcare, healthcare, it's basically being

651
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: considered not a human being. And I correct me from wrong, Derek,

652
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: but I think Tennessee just basically made it illegal to

653
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: be an unhoused person. So I think you're going to

654
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: be see things like that because when you're actually in

655
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: the rat race of capital. You have very little time

656
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: one to think about revolution or two to enact it.

657
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: So before one thing you actually hear throughout history is

658
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: kind of like not the kids are gonna save us,

659
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: but that there's gonna be revolutionary energy and younger generations.

660
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: But oftentimes what happens is as they get a little older,

661
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: that revolutionary energies are diticipated just by the dictates of

662
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: the system. I am encouraged by Amazon and Starbucks unionization.

663
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: I hope that could happen, but I think we just

664
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: need to wait and see you to determine whether that

665
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: indicates like a return to the nineteen fifties where you

666
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: had relatively high levels of unionization in the country. I

667
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: think it's an open question, but it is. It is

668
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: something hopeful, and it's something that hopefully we'll be able

669
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: to build on. My my skepticism is the the institutionalization

670
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: of sort of counter revolutionary impulses is just gets more

671
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: and more entrenched. You know, I mean anything from jerrymandering,

672
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: you know, house districts, to the new hurdle in the

673
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: Senate now that you need well it's not that new anymore,

674
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: but you know that you need sixty votes to do anything.

675
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: A simple majority isn't enough anymore. The court system increasing

676
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: LEAs you know, it's always been counter revolutionary to some degree,

677
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: But you're talking about things that are being instantiated now

678
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: that that are going to take a generation or more

679
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: to be washed out and and to have sort of

680
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: these structures lifted so that there's room for serious change.

681
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: And I think Danny's right. The the the idea of

682
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: the revolution to overthrow these things all in one fell

683
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: swoop is it's pretty far gone. You talk about over

684
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: a longer term, yeah, there, you know, there could be

685
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: some reasons to be optimistic, but then you start to

686
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: run into things like, you know, are we going to

687
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: get another pandemic that's worse than this one? Are we

688
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: going to start I know it's gonna be decades before

689
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: the United States really starts to feel the effects of

690
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: climate change. It's happening already in some other parts of

691
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: the world. But what happens when that really becomes a problem.

692
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: You know, how does that change politics? And I think

693
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 1: it inevitably is going to reduce the scope of people's

694
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: thinking down to a local level. And you know what

695
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: am I doing just day to day to survive this,

696
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: which makes the possibility of like large scale systematic change.

697
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of atomizes everybody, makes it harder

698
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: to to conceive of anything like that. And I think

699
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: you're going to see a return to liberal federalism where

700
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: liberal states, because this is where populations are so concentrated,

701
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: are starting are going to start to find the federal government.

702
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: And that will be very interesting because for most of

703
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: the last century, the centralized state was the focus of liberalism.

704
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: But I think that it's been captured by so many

705
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: reactionary interests that you'll actually see a return to what

706
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: might be termed the state's rights liberalism. Um, I'm in California.

707
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: I don't know where you guys are, but I think

708
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: you're already seeing the glimbers of that. That will be

709
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: very interesting, that will be something new in our lifetimes.

710
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: I think, Miles, you were making the point recently that

711
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: like a lot of the revolutionary energy we saw with

712
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: regards to police and the Black Lives Matter movement, a

713
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: lot of that started really picking up and getting organized

714
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: and making a like gaining national attention around the time

715
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: that everything shut down, like during the pandemic, and giving

716
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: people time because we took our foot off the pedal

717
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: of capitalism and it wasn't crushing people anymore. And they

718
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: took a breath and they said, fuck my with the conditions.

719
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: The big transformation, I think the big transformation, at least

720
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: for what it's going to be remote work. People are

721
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: gonna that. People are gonna accept that deal. I think

722
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people are. You let me not have

723
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: to go to the office. I really I like work

724
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: all day, but really I worked for three or four

725
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: hours and I could live my life. I think that's

726
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: a deal. That that's going to be a deal that

727
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: capital makes with labor, and I think that's gonna be

728
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a big thing. And it's not a

729
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: surprise that you see unionization in the workplaces where you

730
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: can't do that, where you can't be a Starbucks remote

731
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: worker or an Amazon remote worker, because most workers aren't

732
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: remote exactly. And you do have to recognize the second

733
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: they could get AI to replace all those workers, they

734
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: will now that and that's coming on the horizon platively soon,

735
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: and we need to be planning for that if we're serious.

736
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: And and this is more than just like a subcultural

737
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: identity like being a punk. We need to be like

738
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: ready for what that transformation which is coming very soon.

739
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: And the way to be ready for that, I think

740
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: we can all agree is just when you see a

741
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: robot and in the wild, you gotta kick it over, right,

742
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 1: you gotta kick that Yeah, one of those dogs, Yeah,

743
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: Kaiser now employees. The big hospital conglomerate out here employs those.

744
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: You see them rolling around the city all the time.

745
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: Just kick that ship over. That's probably not what you

746
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: guys would recommend, but that is interesting, right because everything

747
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like capital always has to find a

748
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: way to kind of be like fuck it all right,

749
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: let's give him that so it's not full blown like wait,

750
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: what the fuck are the bosses doing? We need to

751
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: funk them up? Like what then? I think, because that's

752
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: why so many people are interested in like U B

753
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: I and things like that. It's like, well, if they

754
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: don't have fucking jobs, we can't just have hungry people

755
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: out in the streets because that, like you're saying, those

756
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: are the little bit of seeds of revolutionary action and

757
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: to keep people docile. I'm curious like if that how

758
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: that will be looked at, like how they are going

759
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: to then support a whole other chunk of the population

760
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: who isn't able to work because of automation, and how

761
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: that's you know, how they're going to subdue those people's

762
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: appetites for something better for themselves. I mean, I think

763
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: you'd be I as a possibility, but it's going to

764
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: come at a cost, at the cost of something else,

765
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: and I don't know what that is, but it will

766
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: come at the cost of some other part of the

767
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: welfare apparatus. Right. Well, Derek, I know you have to run.

768
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you joining us. Yeah, sure, thanks you

769
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: let people in. Daniel, you can stick around for great.

770
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,959
Speaker 1: I got nothing going on, man, I'm my teaching is done. Derek.

771
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Uh? So,

772
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: there's the podcast American Prestige, which is you know, pretty

773
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: much anywhere you get your podcast, but please come check

774
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 1: us out. We're on sub stack now. That's our home,

775
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: American Prestige pod dot com. And while you're a substack,

776
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: you can also check out my newsletter, which is Foreign

777
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: Exchanges f X dot substack dot com. Those are the

778
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: two places, and c dot gov right obviously. Yeah, but

779
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't like to talk about

780
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: that open. Yeah, alright, great, great meeting. You thank you

781
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: so much for coming on, and we'll be right back.

782
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Guys have fun in Davos. Yeah,

783
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back. And So the January sixth

784
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: House Committee Hearing Coochella Coochella primetime event? Was it really

785
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: postponed due to yeah, like that dude not being able

786
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: to make it? No, no no, no, difficult they said, technical difficulties.

787
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: What Yeah, they said, they're I have no fing idea.

788
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: I'm they're fucking ninety years old, dude, Like somebody probably

789
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: misplaced a thumb drive, Like where's that stick with the

790
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: videos on it? You know, like the fuck, we're fucked.

791
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: They're the ones that are gonna fucking oh fuck. But

792
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: yet was postponed due to technical difficulties. And if you

793
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: read the fine print on the poster for Coucella, you

794
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: knew that it was subject to things like that, but

795
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: they did, I think as like a consolation prize released

796
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: some footage of Representative louder Milk from the State of Georgia.

797
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you remember, right after January

798
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: six there was a member of Congress who was a

799
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, former military that recalled another member of Congress

800
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: giving tours. But to them looked suspicious because it looked

801
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: more like recon than it did hey, and this is

802
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: where I eat lunch. It was more like, yeah, man, like,

803
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: look who we're there. Take a picture of this entrance

804
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: to this tunnel, and that sort of raised alarm belt.

805
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: So I believe let me just make sure it was Yeah,

806
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: it was. Representative Mickey Cheryl and louder Milk filed an

807
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: ethics complaint against this person against a representative Cheryl because

808
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: of this allegation. In around that time, completely denied giving

809
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: any fucking tours at all. Never gave a tour ever

810
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: to anybody around then the funk you're talking about. Then

811
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: this spring he kind of revealed a little more. He's like, okay, fine,

812
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: I may have given a tour to like a family

813
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: with like some small babies or something, but that was it,

814
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: Like there's really nothing to see. And then he even

815
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: went onto uh, Laura Ingram's Racist Shriek Show to double

816
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: down on the fact that he did absolutely nothing and

817
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: this is all just a bunch of hokum, and I

818
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: just want to play you this because things begin to

819
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: change for Mr louder Milk. Then they say, oh, it

820
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: was the Capital complex. There were hundreds of people in

821
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: the Capital Complex, the House Office buildings. In fact, it

822
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: was the Democrat leader ship ordered the gift shop open

823
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: on the fifth because there were so many visitors there.

824
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: So Mickey Sheryl's accusation that there were no tours allowed, well,

825
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: there are no no tours allowed to the capital, but

826
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: there were plenty of people at the House Office buildings

827
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: because it was just another day. And now when it

828
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 1: comes out, and no mistake about it. The Capitol Police

829
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: were clear that they are trained in looking for suspicious activity,

830
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: and the group I had in the House Office buildings

831
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: had did nothing suspicions. It was a lie. It was

832
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: a smear. They did the same thing to Donald Trump. Okay,

833
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: cut to Wednesday when the headline there on the KROM

834
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: was they smeared good men. Is that is that a

835
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: plan on words that I'm not understanding that like a

836
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: few good men they smeared good men. I feel they're

837
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: they're completely out of ideas over there, because they're like, man,

838
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to fucking look at video. If you're

839
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: as giving a tour in a second. But oh, they're

840
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: just smearing you. I can't believe it. And so cut

841
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: to now this fucking footage coming out, as the January

842
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: six Committee describes it, quote, surveillance footage shows a tour

843
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: of approximately ten individuals led by you two areas in

844
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: the Rayburn, Longworth and Cannon House office buildings, as well

845
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 1: as the entrances to tunnels leading to the US Capital.

846
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: Individuals on the tour photographed and recorded areas of the

847
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: complex not typically of interest to tourists, including hallways, staircases,

848
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: and security checkpoints. So now he's out here being like,

849
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: oh right, so what but they were they were there

850
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: for the gift shop. It had nothing to do with

851
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: any January six stuff, just because that guy was wearing

852
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: a Maga hat. And then you also found out that

853
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: one of the people on the tour was live streaming

854
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: ship or posting ship to Facebook on the six talking

855
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: about We're coming for you Gnadler Pelosi, and those coincide

856
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: with pictures they took in the cap. But so it's

857
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: very it's like one of those things too, Like we're

858
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: saying like that politics isn't like fucking real anymore, because

859
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: this guy is just like he's been lying the whole time.

860
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: He's on another show that's pretending to a certain group

861
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: of the country that it's news and being like it's

862
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: all fake, it's all nonsense. And I even have this

863
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: letter from the Capitol Police that says they didn't see

864
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: anything suspicious, which to me, I think is actually the

865
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: thing that sticks out the most at this point because

866
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: he's like they're trained into identifying things that are suspicious.

867
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: I was like, it looked like some of them were

868
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: taking selfies. Is that suspicious to people who broke into

869
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: their job? So I'm really curious now, you know, they

870
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: say the next day we'll focus on Trump and Pence,

871
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: but I'm like, the more and more we we look

872
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: at it, and as many of us remember watching the

873
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: events on the six being like, yeah, when's the day

874
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: about the Capitol Police, Like do you have is that

875
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: another day to where you'll talk about anything you that

876
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: was determined to be untoward or maybe aiding and ebetting

877
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: what was happening, because that it's weird that this letter

878
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: helps to quote unquote vindicate this guy who's giving a

879
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: capital tour. Now. I don't know if it's because their

880
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: own incompetence and they have to say that just to

881
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, we saw that and was it was

882
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: it was fine. Okay, maybe we completely funked out up,

883
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: but it's the same thing. I don't know. It reminds

884
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: me of how like the police in Texas to ur

885
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: like we can't show you guys bodycam footage. Yeah, the

886
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: I mean this is being programmed. The whole thing is

887
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: being programmed by like an ABC News president former at

888
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: ABC News president who's like in charge of like the

889
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: Martin Bisher interview with Michael Jackson. Like he he's a

890
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: lower cut, lowest come denominator guy. And I think the

891
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: two decisions that it seems like they've made is um

892
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: one to like the thing that really got people was

893
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: like Kimberly Gilfoyle getting paid too much for her speech,

894
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: which is like women making money, Like they know they

895
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: know Americans don't don't like that. So like I feel

896
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: like they're doing all of this with like targeting like things,

897
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: and then they've decided to ignore the role of the

898
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: police in this and just be like, well, Americans love police,

899
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: and in fact, we will put like one woman who

900
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: was like run over by the rioters, like out front

901
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: and center and like put make that a heroic thing,

902
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: because like, I think those are two assumptions they've gone

903
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: on with. They're just trying to program this as much

904
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: as possible, like a Michael Bay movie. I have a

905
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,479
Speaker 1: couple of questions for you guys, if that's is that cool? Yeah? Yeah?

906
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: So so one, I'm curious what you think of the

907
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: fact that they're not going to do any criminal anything.

908
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: And then two, I'm just so what's your take on

909
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: on the event itself, Like like, so just just to

910
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: put my cards on the table. And this might be wrong,

911
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: but I'm always skeptical about sort of heating up the

912
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: political rhetoric in the society. Uh. And as as someone

913
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: who's studied who studied coup attempts and and things like

914
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: that in the past. I mean, obviously, I think what

915
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: happened was very disturbing, and particularly if you're a congresswoman

916
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: in the building on the Democratic side, I mean, very

917
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 1: it could it could have been very dangerous and and

918
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: incredibly scary. But I've always been skeptical about calling it

919
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: a coup attempt because it just seems like it didn't

920
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: have any of the features of what a coup attempt

921
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: would need to succeed. Um, and it seems like this

922
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: might be and I'd love to hear if you think

923
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: that I'm wrong. It seems like this might actually like

924
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: channel energies in a direction that is not particularly helpful

925
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: for achieving left wing transformation. Uh, it's basically spectacle. Not

926
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: only spectacle. They're not even gonna do criminal charges. So

927
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: I don't know what from so just away my cards

928
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: on the table. I guess I'm a skeptic in that regard.

929
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: I was just wondering what you guys, what you guys think. Yeah,

930
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm definitely skeptical. I'm skeptical of any time

931
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: the American government is in charge of tackling extremism of

932
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: any kind. So from that aspect, I'm like, this seems

933
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 1: like a way to just basically try and push public

934
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: sentiment in one direction or another. I mean, obviously, if

935
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: if anything's you know, they're going to wreck up, they

936
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: can recommend things to the d o J. But the

937
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: d o J has their own investigation happening, where if

938
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: anything's going to happen, it's probably out of that investigation

939
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: rather than this like show and tell of like remember

940
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: how bad it was when like they were there. I

941
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: think with like the Coop, I like, I think even

942
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: with naming a couchel is very tongue in cheek, right,

943
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: And I think for Americans we had never seen anything

944
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: quite so brazen on TV like that that it's just

945
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: like people like, what the funk was that? Uh? And

946
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: I think because are like probably are vernacular. The lexicon

947
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: that we used in talking about politics is so all

948
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: over the place that we're not even using the words

949
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: that we even know to mean anything, because we've talked

950
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: about like technical sense they like a democracy even we're

951
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: just like, well, if we really want to pick that apart.

952
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: But I think for me, you know that as I saw,

953
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 1: it was pretty much the audacity of powerful white people

954
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: being able to say, yeah, there's a way we can

955
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: just kind of keep just do as we please. And

956
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: I think that was what that's how That's what I said.

957
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, they they're the fucking law doesn't

958
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: exist to these people at all, because, like you're saying,

959
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: it was it was the sloppiest attempt at overthrowing an

960
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: election when like drunk Rudy Giuliani is running point. So

961
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: in that way, we were saved by their ineptitude and

962
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: they're just like like weird magical thinking. But yeah, I

963
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: mean I guess that is that isn't a a a

964
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: dimension I had really thought about of like what the

965
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: like rhetorically what that would do, because yeah, I do

966
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: get the sense or it's very clear that you know,

967
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: conservatives are people on the right one of just as

968
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:00,240
Speaker 1: easily categorize any kind of action from protesters fighting at

969
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: capitalism as like an insert like using all of these

970
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: other words to kind of just like nullify the importance

971
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: or like what people are fighting for for sure, Yeah,

972
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: or like the emergence of new domestic terrorism laws, yeah,

973
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: because that will be used against the left more of

974
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: the time, you know. So yeah, it's just an interesting

975
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: moment because it was obviously so dramatic that it's of

976
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: course it's going to be a central thing. But I

977
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: just I'm worried about sort of the channeling of energies

978
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: into something that's pure spectacle when we should be focusing

979
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: on especially now that they said the criminal thing. And

980
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: I don't think the DJ is going to do anything

981
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: because no one wants to start that precedent. I mean

982
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: when Biden, when Biden losing, when the Dems losing the midterms,

983
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: He's going to be impeached three times. That's gonna that's

984
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: the new norm. The new norm is now the president

985
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: is going to be impeached. So I don't think that

986
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: the d o J is going to prosecute because none

987
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: of them want to go to jail. Let me. That's

988
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: why they never prosecuted Bush, anyone in the Bush administration

989
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 1: for violating not only international but domestic laws. So I

990
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: think it's a it's a very interesting moment, and it's

991
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: good to be, you know, to be able to talk

992
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: about it in that sense. Yeah, And I think I

993
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: think it's real so important for people to like see

994
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: how disgusting it is too, like how you're saying, like,

995
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: we saw some fucking terrible shit and nothing is going

996
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: to be fixed. And I think getting people familiar with

997
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: that pattern is also pretty important because you will see, hey,

998
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: are you like trying to protect like an unhoused community

999
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: or pushing backs against police violence. They'll fucking shoot you

1000
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: in the eye. But if you're there saying maga and

1001
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: fucking America, first, you're getting selfies, you know anything that

1002
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: and and then I mean that Is that much is clear,

1003
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: I think to most of our listeners. But yeah, there

1004
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 1: are there are many other dimensions to it that as

1005
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: we I think, because like you're saying, we have most

1006
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 1: people are experiencing a reality where there's no ability to

1007
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: affect change. Then we have these weird moments where people

1008
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: want to put all their back eggs in the basket,

1009
00:54:55,120 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: where it's like mother time exactly, Russia Gate, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1010
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: goddamn Steel Dossier. I do feel myself like pulled in

1011
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: two directions because I do worry about fascism, fascism in

1012
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: this country, and like a belief that like it can

1013
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: get much worse because we can get worse, Like it

1014
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: can get worse, and I think it will get like

1015
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: that is the path we are on. Is it getting

1016
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: way worse? Because like I said, there are two paths

1017
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: for America to go forward. I don't think that like

1018
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: and it sounds crazy and probably might be a little

1019
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: bit like extreme, but it really feels like the energy

1020
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 1: has just gone from the like neoliberal like let Wall

1021
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: Street lead type kind of ideal that was considered mainstream

1022
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: in America for so long, and now like you could

1023
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: go left, like democratic socialist, or you could go in

1024
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: the direction of fascism and the like America. Like I've

1025
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: been using this metaphor of like having like America having

1026
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: an immune system and like America being absolutely allergic to

1027
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: anything that is like slightly socialist and being very welcoming

1028
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: of things that are fascist, and like I just I

1029
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 1: feel like so seeing these things like I see seeing

1030
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: like what happened on January six, like it's still like

1031
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: I think it's serious because it's an indicator of where

1032
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: things are headed and how much worse things can get

1033
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: in this country. Like that, I think that's where the

1034
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: seriousness and like my attention to it is coming from.

1035
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: Um not necessarily that like they almost they were like

1036
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: right there and could have overthrown it, but just like that,

1037
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: this this seems to be what the country is more

1038
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: comfortable with than any sort of even like soft socialism.

1039
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: Absolutely in this kind that's fair. Absolutely yeah, yeah, no,

1040
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's that it's all very it all comes

1041
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: together and we're just look and we're like wow. Because

1042
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: also so you think about all these people, now, these

1043
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: maga quing on people who are sending into positions of

1044
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: like Secretary of States or being able to now have

1045
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: like their hands on the votes and stuff. You're like,

1046
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, like they're really like they're really going

1047
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: for it, and yeah, it's it's it's odd to see

1048
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: just a lack of urgency about things like that's on

1049
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: a very basic level not good to have people who

1050
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: are outwardly being like I don't believe reality and I

1051
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: will determine who you know, what votes mean, or I'll

1052
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: have a lot of influence potentially in an electoral decision

1053
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: and those things. Yeah, they all come together. But I

1054
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: think with the reason why America's I think it's just

1055
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: more open too. Just like when you put two things

1056
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: in front of like the American consciousness, it's like, what's

1057
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: the one that's more aggressive and dominates the weak? Yeah, yeah,

1058
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: that's kind of more our vibe since the beginning. And

1059
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: so anything that's like about empathy or being like no,

1060
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: like we need to we need to take care of

1061
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: each other, Like what the fund is that I never

1062
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: heard of? That? I also think, Uh, an important thing

1063
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: to think about is like what looks more fun? Because

1064
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: I think generally there's like more despair in American society,

1065
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: Like people just feel totally disconnected from power, they feel

1066
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: totally not in charge of their lives. And I think

1067
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: the big appeal of someone like Trump is that he

1068
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: channeled all of those in the direction that seemed like

1069
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: almost gest or like you know, like that that seemed

1070
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: more more fun. And I do think that we on

1071
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: the left need to embrace that element of fun, not

1072
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: in obviously a horrible, racist, disgusting way like someone like

1073
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or or Ted Cruz or someone both type.

1074
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: Cruz is not fun, he just can't fake it. But

1075
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: I do think like that's an important element of politics

1076
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: that we never talked about it. It has to be

1077
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: like exciting when you go to a protest and you

1078
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: chant it like feels good, It feels fun, It feels

1079
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: good to be part of something. And I think that

1080
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: we've we've sort of seeded that territory um and that's

1081
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: not I don't think that's good for for political strategy

1082
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: or particularly winning over people who don't really pay attention

1083
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: to things. But we need to get anything done in

1084
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: this country, right, So come to our leftist couch, ella.

1085
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a really fun event, y'all. We're gonna

1086
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: exchange some radical ideas and marks on the capital Uh, well,

1087
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: Daniel has been a real pleasure having you. Where can

1088
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: people find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Sure

1089
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter at d Bessner and American Prestige. Please like, subscribe,

1090
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: review listen. Thanks guys, thanks so much for having us

1091
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: on UM. Is there a tweet or some of the

1092
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: work of social media you've been enjoying? Oh? Yeah, under

1093
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: the banner of Heaven? Have you guys been watching that show? No,

1094
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: it's really good. It's really good. I strongly recommend it.

1095
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: It's really interesting and I people should check it out.

1096
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: I love Andrew Garfield. I liked the book when I

1097
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: read it, and I love any story that takes place

1098
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: in the you know, Letter day SAT community, the what

1099
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: do they prefer to be called? Uh, there's the Latter Day? Yeah, yeah,

1100
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: the LDS and yeah this is this is basically about

1101
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: a radical group. So it's pretty interesting. Oh oh the

1102
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: what Alrea? You talk about the Netflix documentary I blanked

1103
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: out for a second, or the book about it? Uh? No,

1104
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: just the fictionalized. Are they like like FLDS kind of

1105
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: people and this one like fundamental? I don't think they're FLDS,

1106
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: but they're they're because they talk about like the differences

1107
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: between fl I think, but they're Yeah, they're basically a

1108
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: radical break off group. There's so much like LDS stuff

1109
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: going on right now. There's like that Netflix documentary to

1110
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: about that FLDS community. Miles, where can people find you?

1111
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: With the tweet you've been enjoying, Find me on Twitter

1112
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Miles of Gray. If you like basketball,

1113
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: check out the latest episode of Miles and Jack Got Mad.

1114
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: Boost these where we distract ourselves with sports and if

1115
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: you want to hear me just tracked myself with reality TV,

1116
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: check out four twenty Day Fiance, where you know, we

1117
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: just trying trying to zone out on something. A tweet

1118
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: I like is from Amy at l O L and

1119
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: Louis tweeted, Oh, we're in a bear market. Well I

1120
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: think we're in a Platypus store. That's what you sound like.

1121
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: That's you all right? Uh tweet I've been enjoying no context.

1122
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: Brits tweeted a picture of a big Mac that has

1123
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: a label onside that's British and Irish Beef. Then they

1124
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: just tweeted the troubles. That was a good one. I

1125
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: saw that. Oh, actually, at American Process, we're doing a

1126
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: long history on the ira A. So this week on Saturday,

1127
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: we're releasing our third episode on the history of the

1128
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: i RA. So if anyone's interested in Irish history, please

1129
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: check that out. There you go. You can find me

1130
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us

1131
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. Were at the Daily Zigeist

1132
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website,

1133
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: daily ze geist dot com where we post our episodes

1134
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: and our foot where we link off the information that

1135
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: we talked about in today's episode, as well as a

1136
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: song that we think you might enjoy Mile Aslo song

1137
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: do we think people might end? This is a group

1138
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: called Polo and Pun and they are like a Parisian

1139
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: duo and they it's just it's like very cinematic sounding,

1140
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: you know. I like music where like when you listen

1141
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: to it, like it immediately sets off like your visual imagination.

1142
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: And this is a track called Le Jolie shows hey,

1143
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: and I'll look, I'm not a good French speaker, but

1144
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: I'll say like an American less Jolly's choses. Okay, if

1145
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: you wanted to google that ship by Polo and p

1146
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: A and Pants, but it's this sounds like you're in

1147
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: like some you know, French new wave film or something,

1148
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: but it's just caught. I don't know, it's it's it's

1149
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: it's enjoyed. It's enjoyed. So put that in your ears

1150
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: on this wonderful Thursday. All right, Well, the Daily is, like, guys,

1151
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for

1152
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple

1153
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen your favorite shows, You guys

1154
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us this morning. We're back this

1155
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: afternoon to tell you what's trending, and we'll talk to

1156
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: y'all don by five mm