WEBVTT - Planet Neanderthal 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:14.080 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.000 My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas, And 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.479 you know Julie. In the in science fiction, we we 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.160 keep coming back to this idea of like humans going 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.360 out into the into the void and encountering another another 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.639 intelligent species and then figuring out what's going to go down, 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.440 and it's just you know, it's just throughout the genre. 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.879 But the trope, it's it's definitely a trope. It's all. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:41.159 It's it's trophy even um but U. But that the 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:42.880 really fastinating thing to me is to is to look 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:47.120 backwards in time and and think about humans and uh 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:53.200 and their interactions with other human like beings, such as 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.360 most famously the Neanderthal. Yeah, the neanderthal, which is typically 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.160 spelled I mean, it's spelled like it's neanderthal, and I've 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.399 I've been saying it wrong for ages. But but of course, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.120 as you pointed out, comes from the Germans, so it's neanderthal. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.200 So I just wanted to say that it's yeah, it 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:12.560 rolls off the tongue a lot easier if you just 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.959 go ahead and and use the fig German accent that 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.920 we all have have gotten off of the television and 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.880 just say neandertal. But we can't do the entire podcast 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.360 in that voice. Oh my god, you sound eerily like 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.520 Arnold Schwarzenegger right now. See. I think I was listening 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.400 to a mix recently. They had a bunch of Arnold 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.560 like fitness samples. That was probably what did it. But anyway, Neanderthal, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.160 hopefully that pronunciation won't annoy you too much, uh in 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.480 this podcast likewise, we're going to steer largely clear of 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.480 another problem the encounter when you start reading about Neanderthal 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.720 in Neanderthals or any any any topics concerning the ascension 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.160 of man and human evolution, and that is that you 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.520 almost all always get bogged down in discussion of dig 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.960 sites and all these Latin names to the different fossils, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.200 and it's and it's all very important to a larger understanding. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.320 But we're gonna try and steer clear of a lot 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.960 of that. Yeah, because it's like the Book of Genesis, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.080 Yeah it is. It becomes like and then Homo epercatus 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.600 emerge from Homo elliptus, and we don't know where Homo 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.320 capacatas fits. You know, it just gets it gets a 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.040 little dry, you know, even even for me and I've 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.480 I've written some articles about this before and it just 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.720 you know, kind of stunned your brain after a while. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.200 But for our purposes, but yeah, we're gonna we're gonna 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.840 sort of blow through some of that. But but there 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.959 are lots of great resources out there, um that that'll 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.480 that'll kill you with the Latin names if you like. 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.240 But to uh, to really put us in more of 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.120 a time and place. Um, but let's talk about what 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:50.480 the Neanderthals were all right, Um, they first they were 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.240 there hominids there, they would have looked very much like 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.160 people on like modern humans. Even like if you get 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.360 in your mind this sort of idea of like a 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:04.440 troll like um uh bron Pearlman esque hulking thing uh 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.799 um or Tom Waits, you can put that in as well. Um, 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.320 you know, it's like that's not necessarily a good model 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:12.720 to have, and it's a really hard one to kick. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.679 Like when I think Neanderthal, it's it's really hard to 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.400 kick that idea of this hulking brute that's stomping through 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.200 the undergroad the cartoon caveman with a club thing. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.040 um and uh and it's hard to get past that that, 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.040 but these guys would have looked more or less like 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:33.040 modern humans, only shorter, heavier built, um stronger, particularly in 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.880 the arms and hands. So they were they were kind 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.600 of thick. Uh and and you know, muscily dudes. Yeah. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.840 Actually I read somewhere too that their rib cages are 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.640 really large and they didn't have much of a waste, yeah, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.440 which was sort of like that gives you this idea 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.440 of these barrel chested, really compact muscular beings. Yeah, and 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:52.080 you know, kind of like I guess, kind of like 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.880 a stumpy wrestler physique. And to a certain extent um 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.320 they the skull evidence we have show that they didn't 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.920 have much of its hin uh and their forehead fourheads 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.200 were kind of sloped backwards. Uh. Their brain case was 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.480 lower but felt longer, and it housed a slightly larger 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.520 brain than what we're carrying around today, right, which was 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.080 really great for them help them survive for a very 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.400 long time, but also, as we'll get into later, may 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.839 have contributed a bit to their downfall as well. Yeah. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.320 So these guys first showed up in Europe as early 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:28.720 as six hundred thousand UM or three fifty thousand years ago. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.839 We're a little you know, again, anytime you deal with 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.520 the fossil record, you're dealing with bits and pieces of 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.000 the jigsaw puzzle, and many of the pieces will just 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.840 never have So it's it's always a little touch and go, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.640 and it's it's and if you don't understand that, it 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.359 can be a little frustrating. We're like, how can we 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.279 not know? Like, how can we just dig up some 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.320 more bones? Well, not all bones survive, not all bones 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.359 become fossils. Yeah, that's the game of chance, right, Like 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.200 even the neanderthalman who was discovered it was sort of 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.200 by chance because the guy who who saw it was 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:01.839 about to pitch it and then he thought, well, maybe 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.960 that's a bear school, and he was collecting um animal 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.600 schools and ended up keeping it. And then they found 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.440 out later that no, this is not at your school. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.360 So again, I mean, our knowledge would have been so 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.800 incomplete if he hadn't had that chance encounter. So these 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:21.239 guys pretty much ruled Eurasia for two hundred thousand years, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:27.000 roaming around, uh doing their thing, and even at the 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.440 height of their occupation of a Western Europe, scientists think 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.440 that they probably never really exceeded say, fifteen thousand total. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.240 So even so, you know, we we're not dealing with 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.560 modern population levels of human like today, humans are really 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.440 off the chart, you know, I mean, we're an exceedingly 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.560 successful species or where you can argue were an invasive 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.640 species pretty much everywhere. But but this was a time 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.760 when populations could not really reached the unsustainable levels that 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.440 we've managed to achieve to right, and from fossil records, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.880 what we do know is that at the time that 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.240 um Neanderthals went extinct, humans were really homeless sapiens were 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.400 really starting to make great gains. So of course that's 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.520 where we that idea developed where we just vanquished the 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.000 Neanderthals and ate them and made it with them and 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.560 left them in the dirt. And that's not really true. Yeah, 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.760 it's kind of like to uh, this will probably the 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.960 only time I use a Will Smith quote. But but 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.960 there's this idea that the Neanderthals were old and busted 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.240 and the humans were the new hotness, and that we 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.040 just eradicated the old and busted and thoughts. So it's 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.080 just they were just a you know, this was the 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.240 old model. The new models so much better. So of 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:40.919 course the old model is going to die, right, right, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:42.920 But the more you really look at it, the more 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.559 it becomes in a situation where you have two really 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.160 good models. I mean, it's it's kind of like the 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.680 idea that I think it was actually Ricky Gervei who 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.760 pointed out that like the garden slug may look disgusting, 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.880 we may hate it, but the garden slug is perfect, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.479 like nature has filled that that niche with something that 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.120 really works. Well. So like nature does by and large 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.599 doesn't create, uh, you know, evolution does not lead to 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.440 ineffective designs. It's like this is the pinnacle. This is 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.880 a a great design. So the more you look at it, 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.080 you have a situation where the neander doll is a 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:21.080 is a killer design, but circumstances ended up having this 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.440 other design, this human design, be the one that's going 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.240 to take take the lead, become the dominant force. And 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:28.920 all that had to do with climate, right Like at 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.320 the time that they were flourishing neandertals, they had adapted 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.920 to their environment really well yeah, but I'm jumping ahead here, Yeah, yeah, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.240 two other key things to mention is that another there's 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.840 a really old, outdated idea that's still probably kicking around 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.720 and a lot of people's heads, and that is that 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:51.560 we evolved from neander tal and that's that's completely not true. Um. Rather, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:56.880 we share a common relative um, a common ancestor. So 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.120 if you were to follow the chart back, you'd say, hey, 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:04.160 here's this particular of species um and and at this 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.240 point it diverged and there's uh, and it's its ancestors 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.360 became Neanderthals and became humans. Right, So there's Homo erect us, right, 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:16.360 and then that's the branch of Homo Heidelberg genis saying that, right, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.880 which I just picture a caveman in uh edohosen, I 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:26.040 know that's Heiderberg. Uh. And then of course that evolved 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.440 that that species evolved into neander tools right. Yeah, it's 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.240 it's like the same thing that we like, we share 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.160 common ancestors with the champion chimpanzee, but we did not 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.560 evolve from a chimpanzee. So if you had any of 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.040 that kicking around your head, get rid of that. Yeah, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.840 our genetic material is shared with Neanderthals, yes, uh. And 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.760 another interesting fact to keep in mind is that is 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.800 that again we we coexisted with Neanderthals for for for 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.679 for a brief period of time as far as as 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:01.640 evolutionary history goes. But but but we did coexist, right. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.000 They became extinct about thirty thousand years ago. Yeah, and 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.640 they may have survived in in some very remote areas 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.560 for perhaps up to twenty four thousand years ago. And 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.839 that's a specifically Gibraltar. You know, in the Strait of Gibraltar. Um, 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.520 there's a site there called Gorman's Cave that people have 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.040 studied a lot. So this is an isolated area that 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:25.680 that you know sits an island. They end up there 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.120 and they end up holding out there for a while, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.120 but eventually, um, they're out injeri In. But what I 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.560 find really interesting is that neanderthal has got a bad 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:39.360 rap because they weren't these great bedazzlers. Oh yeah, because 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.760 they're like, well, where are their cave drawings? Where there 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.680 are their beads and their where's their jewelry? So but 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.920 at that time that was the litmus test of whether 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:51.439 or not you were um sophisticated enough to be thought 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.400 of as as cool as Homo sapiens, right, and so 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.160 that really did contribute to this idea of them as 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.840 knuckle drivers, actually, which is unfortunate because they are so 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.800 much more nuanced than um than that, and in fact 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.520 um it reminds me of Kazuo Shigaros. Never let me 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.960 go the novel. But the children, Yes, this is the 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.920 My wife read this for a book club, and it's 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.200 basically the same plot as the old sci fi film 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.400 parts the Clonus Hare, which they did for MST. Three K. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.839 And also there was some what was that the Island. Yeah, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:30.880 basically you know the idea of like, oh, let's let's 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.439 have clones of ourselves, so we can have spare parts, right, 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.400 so we can just pick up this organ from this person. 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:40.280 But one of the central um topics in the book 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.040 is that the children must produce artwork to prove their 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.240 own humanity. And so I was thinking about that. I 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.360 was thinking, well, that's the same case with Neanderthals. Is 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.520 that we thought, well, we don't see any cave paintings, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.680 therefore they must have been brutes, they must have been 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.760 without sympathy or you know, these these higher ideas of 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.280 our emotions in our humanity. But we'll find this out later. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.920 It's that's not the case at all. Yeah. Well, also 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.000 it's it's important to note that some of the early 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.880 cave drawings that you counter like pictures of our pictures 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.840 of animals, you know, pictures of prey, and and they 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.720 think that a lot of that is probably used to 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:22.480 to teach. This presentation is brought to you by Intel 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:29.760 sponsors of tomorrow. So it's not like they were like 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.640 they were like, Oh, I have free time, I must 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.120 create some art. Let me draw an antelope. Isn't it beautiful? Now? 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.040 It was probably more like, like, I'm really trying to 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.120 drive home that you had a hunt and antelope, kid, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:41.960 let me draw one on the wall. Yeah, this isn't 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.400 cubism here. Yeah. So so I think we can sort 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.640 of get a little, uh, a little lofty about our 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.160 ideas concerning early primitive artwork. Yeah. And you've touched on 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.360 this too as well. Is it the superiority myth? This 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.319 idea that Homo safetians are really the only cool kids 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:05.000 in town because they mastered fire, um, just speak tools, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.600 agriculture or someone and so forth. Yeah, And it really 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.600 kind of flows into sort of a manifest destiny that 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.599 you know, this idea that we're special. We've got to 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.160 be special. Um, you know, we're we're here where that 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.400 we must be the superior design. There could not possibly 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.560 be a better one, right, And that's the cool thing 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.320 about looking at this UM and thinking about it in 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.240 the context. We are the kid cool kids here right now. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.320 But you know, two thousand years from now, they'll be 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.000 looking back at us saying, what in the world were 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.160 they doing? Yeah? We um and Neandertals first met our 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.120 human ancestors in the Middle East about a hundred and 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:40.440 thirty thousand years ago. Uh and perhaps uh, perhaps after 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.800 about a half million years of separation when they split 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.079 off from that common ancestor, then they contacted each other 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:52.040 again in Eurasia roughly forty five thousand years ago. And 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:53.600 and this is where we end up, you know. And 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.040 there are a lot of questions about what these contacts 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.760 consisted of. Uh. For one thing, you know, those cave 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.319 drawings that we've mentioned, you don't see any cave drawings 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.040 of Neanderthals, So it's it's not like they were just 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.520 running into each other the supermarket all the time. Again, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.839 we're dealing with small populations of people, people that moved 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.040 around for the most part, So yeah, nomadic people. So 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.400 it's not again, it's not like people run into each 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.559 other all the time. And even human populations are were 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.679 likely to be running into you run into a group 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.480 that speaks differently that that are that are very alien 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.720 from you, there may be just as alien from you 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:32.120 as these uh, slightly heavy set guys who who look 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.240 pretty intimidating and look like they could really take you 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.720 down with the tackle if need be. But we know 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.760 know that that we humans tangled with neander tolls and 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.440 when by tangling mean they had sex with each other. Yeah, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.480 at least some like it. It apparently happens. Yeah, the 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.080 genetic evidence is there. Did it happen all the time? No? No, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.719 I mean it's it's not the kind of thing it's 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.120 happening all the time. No, And in fact, if that 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.520 were the case, then, um, we would have a lot 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.720 more evidence in our own DNA. Right right now, we've 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.240 got traces of two to of Neanderthals and the modern 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.280 human genome in populations outside of Africa, which is interesting. Um, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.280 so you know there's some evidence there that again they 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.800 tangoed um and this we learned from the Max Planck 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:23.160 Institute because they sequenced the Neanderthal genoa. And they also 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.240 found out that they were pale skinned and they had 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:31.880 a range of colors including red hair. Yeah. Um. And 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.760 they shared the language gene with us, Yeah, which is 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.680 fox P two right, Yeah, that's that's the one there. 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.920 In fact, there have been some some arguments that they 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.560 may have uh, they have may have communicated musically. You 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.280 remember this from from our research for the Music Healing 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.880 the Mind. Yeah, music, can music rebuild your brain? Yeah? 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.520 And it was the bone flute yeah yeah, um, and 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.880 that was something like I don't know it was fifty 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.320 years ago or I fix thousand year old instrument. That 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.120 is clearly it's it's intentional and it's marking. Some people 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.080 have said, oh, animals made the holes in the bone, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.400 but if you look at the pictures of it, like 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.920 the holes are pretty exact. Um, so it's not too 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:12.760 far off to think that they'd be able to to 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.240 use it as a musical instrument. They're also you also 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:23.280 see different examples of cannibalistic or well, okay, there's some 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:28.360 examples of cannibal possible cannibalism among the neandertals and also uh, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.320 some evidence and with the bones to suggest that humans 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.760 may have eaten neanderthals at different times and possibly made 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.240 necklaces out of their children's teeth. Yeah, which is just 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.440 gonna happen. I mean, and you know, to call back 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.360 to another podcast, we have the Whole Cannibalism podcast where 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.240 we dealt primarily with cannibalism in nature. So if you 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.160 haven't listened to that one, if you were like my wife, 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:51.760 you were scared off from it thinking it was gonna 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.440 be about mainly about people eating other people. It's really 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:59.120 mostly about uh, about animals eating their own type praying 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.280 mances offering themselves up and a love victual to get 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.560 their heads. Been on lots of sexual cannibalism of that 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.800 kind of thing in that podcast. But one of the 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.200 things we really drove tried to drive drive home in 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.240 that was that cannibalism, when you strip away all of 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:17.200 the the the modern human taboos and all, it really 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.080 makes a lot of sense. So it's just the idea 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.200 that you would encounter it. That doesn't mean that we're 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.680 suggesting to do it, but no, no, in the context 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.840 of when it happened, it made sense, right, because they're 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.880 hardy protein sources. Yeah, yeah, And you know it's otherwise 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.480 that that stuff is going to go to waste and 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.160 you might starve to death, so of course you eat it. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.560 There are also some arguments out there that these early groups, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.320 including the andertal Is, also partook of some scavenging. So 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.640 it's also in a situation where there's some war dead 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.280 either on your from your own tribe, but from this 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.960 group that you just had a little um miscommunication with. Again, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.200 why I let that, Why I let the vultures have that? 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.840 When that's those are some some vital nutrients that could 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.520 sustain you as you continue to to scour the landscape 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.520 for for what will hopefully be your next meal. Right, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.679 And talking about miss communication or communication makes me again 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.840 think of the speech gene and the fact that because 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.080 they had the large brains and they had that gene, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.760 and because they also had a tiny bone in the 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.520 throat called the highoid um, which supports the soft tissue 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:19.840 of the throat and it holds the root of the 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.960 tongue in place, which is a requirement for speech, makes 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.160 me think that Um and and many others, that they 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.040 did have some sort of language what we do know 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.440 is that their lantn x is much higher in their 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.800 throat than humans, which would have limited some of their speech. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.639 But it's it's a it's good to note that because 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.600 again that that would have helped them to have survived, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.359 to be able to communicate with one another, but in 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.800 the long run that it may have actually um contributed 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.800 to their demise interests of Homo sapiens well, and also 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.600 we've seen plenty of evidence that just because i mean 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.959 even just among Homo sapiens, just because one group can 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.840 talk to the other, doesn't any other group isn't going 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.480 to attempt to wipe them out, you know, No, Yeah, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.600 And that's it was more in the well, we'll talk 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:06.160 about it later, but it was more in the context 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.760 of is it are you better suited to survive if 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.159 you can communicate really well with each other? Um. But 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.600 another thing about Neanderthals that has been that the veil 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.560 has been lifted on is toolmaking and some other school 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.840 skills and things that they've done. Again, it was thought 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.280 that humans had the upper hand with tools, but it 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.719 turns out that Neanderthals were just as sophisticated with their 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.440 tools and in some cases. Um, the shales or the 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.920 blades were a lot more effective than the homosapiene Homo 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.439 sapiens um. So there you go. Mad skills. Yeah, these 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.480 guys were hunters. Um. These guys make glue, Yeah, which 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.399 is just pretty amazing. It's yeah, do you mind if 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.560 I talk about it? So amazed by this? Uh, it's 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.320 the glue is made from tightly rolled strips of birch bark, 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.439 and it's deposited into a hole in the ground and 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.800 then they cover that with earth and they see at oxygen. 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.040 Then they take a small holdering stick put that in there, 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.840 and because the birch is deprived of oxygen, it sweats 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.159 out pitch and so when it cools, it can be 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.840 used in tools to bond materials together. And the even 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.320 cooler thing about it is that you can take that 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.640 piece of cooled pitch and take it anywhere. Of course, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.400 thematic right, so they're gonna they're gonna bring it with them, 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.080 and then all you have to do is reheat it, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.920 uh to use it again. And the reason I'm bringing 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.160 this up is because the I don't can't remember those 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.520 as a PBS special. I'll have to look at my 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.760 research notes. But the video clip that I saw this, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.399 it was really difficult for them to do and to 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.320 do right. So it took a lot of skill, and 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:39.720 it took a lot of trial and air and even 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:41.480 in this day and age, for you and I to 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.440 try to do this, and I'm sure that would be 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.800 a lot of expletives flying. You know, there'll be a 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.520 steep learning curve. So for them to be able to 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.040 do this is amazing. Yeah. I can't can barely cook 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.960 dinner for myself without resorting the cursing, So I can't 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.080 imagine making glue in my backyard. I know, I remember 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:03.800 your risotto st technique needed some observation by a second party. 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.399 So yes, um, I cook best when I'm I'm helping, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.080 not taking the lead. You're more of a chef. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.360 there's no shame in that chef. That's an important rule. 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.159 But they also used pollen. A lot of pollen was 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.320 found in the caves, and that's used as an antiseptic 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.320 and a salve. And speaking of of pollen, it's it's 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.040 worth pointing out that they were not specifically carnivorous. Yeah, 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.240 it seems like meat was a big part of their diet. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.280 They were. They were probably steak fans and would have 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.359 been found frequenting out back if they were around today. 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.000 But but they did eat vegetable matter. They did when 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.600 they did the scavenge for seeds. When when that when 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.560 when they when they were available? Yeah, and they yeah, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.800 that's right, they found some plant plant matter and the 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.720 molars um. And again here you have this idea of 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.360 them as being these you know, cavemen who were just 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.680 you know, and of course they were were taking down 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.400 some large animals, but they weren't, you know, primarily carnivorous. Um. 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.560 So this idea they invented the blooming onion. Actually people 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:16.000 really know that, but oh yeah they did. Um, Well, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.960 you just threw me there. I'm like, now I'm imagining 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.080 them over the fire with their blooming onions. Um, I'm 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.840 salivating a little bit. And that's just so wrong. But 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:27.800 the other thing is a lot of people thought of 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.399 them is sort of like the dirty hippies too, of hominids. Um. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.679 But in fact, the hygiene thing has been brought up 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.000 before that their teeth has shown very little decay, so 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.800