1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas, And 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: you know Julie. In the in science fiction, we we 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: keep coming back to this idea of like humans going 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: out into the into the void and encountering another another 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: intelligent species and then figuring out what's going to go down, 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: and it's just you know, it's just throughout the genre. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: But the trope, it's it's definitely a trope. It's all. 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: It's it's trophy even um but U. But that the 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: really fastinating thing to me is to is to look 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: backwards in time and and think about humans and uh 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: and their interactions with other human like beings, such as 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: most famously the Neanderthal. Yeah, the neanderthal, which is typically 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: spelled I mean, it's spelled like it's neanderthal, and I've 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: I've been saying it wrong for ages. But but of course, 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, comes from the Germans, so it's neanderthal. 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say that it's yeah, it 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: rolls off the tongue a lot easier if you just 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: go ahead and and use the fig German accent that 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: we all have have gotten off of the television and 22 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: just say neandertal. But we can't do the entire podcast 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: in that voice. Oh my god, you sound eerily like 24 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger right now. See. I think I was listening 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: to a mix recently. They had a bunch of Arnold 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: like fitness samples. That was probably what did it. But anyway, Neanderthal, 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: hopefully that pronunciation won't annoy you too much, uh in 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: this podcast likewise, we're going to steer largely clear of 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: another problem the encounter when you start reading about Neanderthal 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: in Neanderthals or any any any topics concerning the ascension 31 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: of man and human evolution, and that is that you 32 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: almost all always get bogged down in discussion of dig 33 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: sites and all these Latin names to the different fossils, 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: and it's and it's all very important to a larger understanding. 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: But we're gonna try and steer clear of a lot 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, because it's like the Book of Genesis, 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It becomes like and then Homo epercatus 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: emerge from Homo elliptus, and we don't know where Homo 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: capacatas fits. You know, it just gets it gets a 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: little dry, you know, even even for me and I've 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: I've written some articles about this before and it just 42 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, kind of stunned your brain after a while. 43 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: But for our purposes, but yeah, we're gonna we're gonna 44 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: sort of blow through some of that. But but there 45 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: are lots of great resources out there, um that that'll 46 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: that'll kill you with the Latin names if you like. 47 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: But to uh, to really put us in more of 48 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: a time and place. Um, but let's talk about what 49 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: the Neanderthals were all right, Um, they first they were 50 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: there hominids there, they would have looked very much like 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: people on like modern humans. Even like if you get 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: in your mind this sort of idea of like a 53 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: troll like um uh bron Pearlman esque hulking thing uh 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: um or Tom Waits, you can put that in as well. Um, 55 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's like that's not necessarily a good model 56 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: to have, and it's a really hard one to kick. 57 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: Like when I think Neanderthal, it's it's really hard to 58 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: kick that idea of this hulking brute that's stomping through 59 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: the undergroad the cartoon caveman with a club thing. Yeah. Yeah, 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: um and uh and it's hard to get past that that, 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: but these guys would have looked more or less like 62 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: modern humans, only shorter, heavier built, um stronger, particularly in 63 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: the arms and hands. So they were they were kind 64 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: of thick. Uh and and you know, muscily dudes. Yeah. 65 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: Actually I read somewhere too that their rib cages are 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: really large and they didn't have much of a waste, yeah, 67 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: which was sort of like that gives you this idea 68 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: of these barrel chested, really compact muscular beings. Yeah, and 69 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like I guess, kind of like 70 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: a stumpy wrestler physique. And to a certain extent um 71 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: they the skull evidence we have show that they didn't 72 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: have much of its hin uh and their forehead fourheads 73 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: were kind of sloped backwards. Uh. Their brain case was 74 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: lower but felt longer, and it housed a slightly larger 75 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: brain than what we're carrying around today, right, which was 76 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: really great for them help them survive for a very 77 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: long time, but also, as we'll get into later, may 78 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: have contributed a bit to their downfall as well. Yeah. 79 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: So these guys first showed up in Europe as early 80 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: as six hundred thousand UM or three fifty thousand years ago. 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: We're a little you know, again, anytime you deal with 82 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: the fossil record, you're dealing with bits and pieces of 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: the jigsaw puzzle, and many of the pieces will just 84 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: never have So it's it's always a little touch and go, 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: and it's it's and if you don't understand that, it 86 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: can be a little frustrating. We're like, how can we 87 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: not know? Like, how can we just dig up some 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: more bones? Well, not all bones survive, not all bones 89 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: become fossils. Yeah, that's the game of chance, right, Like 90 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: even the neanderthalman who was discovered it was sort of 91 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: by chance because the guy who who saw it was 92 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: about to pitch it and then he thought, well, maybe 93 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: that's a bear school, and he was collecting um animal 94 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: schools and ended up keeping it. And then they found 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: out later that no, this is not at your school. 96 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: So again, I mean, our knowledge would have been so 97 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: incomplete if he hadn't had that chance encounter. So these 98 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 1: guys pretty much ruled Eurasia for two hundred thousand years, 99 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: roaming around, uh doing their thing, and even at the 100 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: height of their occupation of a Western Europe, scientists think 101 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: that they probably never really exceeded say, fifteen thousand total. 102 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: So even so, you know, we we're not dealing with 103 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: modern population levels of human like today, humans are really 104 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: off the chart, you know, I mean, we're an exceedingly 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: successful species or where you can argue were an invasive 106 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: species pretty much everywhere. But but this was a time 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: when populations could not really reached the unsustainable levels that 108 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: we've managed to achieve to right, and from fossil records, 109 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: what we do know is that at the time that 110 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: um Neanderthals went extinct, humans were really homeless sapiens were 111 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: really starting to make great gains. So of course that's 112 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: where we that idea developed where we just vanquished the 113 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: Neanderthals and ate them and made it with them and 114 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: left them in the dirt. And that's not really true. Yeah, 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like to uh, this will probably the 116 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: only time I use a Will Smith quote. But but 117 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: there's this idea that the Neanderthals were old and busted 118 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: and the humans were the new hotness, and that we 119 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: just eradicated the old and busted and thoughts. So it's 120 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: just they were just a you know, this was the 121 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: old model. The new models so much better. So of 122 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: course the old model is going to die, right, right, 123 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: But the more you really look at it, the more 124 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,559 Speaker 1: it becomes in a situation where you have two really 125 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: good models. I mean, it's it's kind of like the 126 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: idea that I think it was actually Ricky Gervei who 127 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: pointed out that like the garden slug may look disgusting, 128 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: we may hate it, but the garden slug is perfect, 129 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: like nature has filled that that niche with something that 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: really works. Well. So like nature does by and large 131 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: doesn't create, uh, you know, evolution does not lead to 132 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: ineffective designs. It's like this is the pinnacle. This is 133 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: a a great design. So the more you look at it, 134 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: you have a situation where the neander doll is a 135 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: is a killer design, but circumstances ended up having this 136 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: other design, this human design, be the one that's going 137 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: to take take the lead, become the dominant force. And 138 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: all that had to do with climate, right Like at 139 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: the time that they were flourishing neandertals, they had adapted 140 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: to their environment really well yeah, but I'm jumping ahead here, Yeah, yeah, 141 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: two other key things to mention is that another there's 142 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: a really old, outdated idea that's still probably kicking around 143 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of people's heads, and that is that 144 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: we evolved from neander tal and that's that's completely not true. Um. Rather, 145 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: we share a common relative um, a common ancestor. So 146 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: if you were to follow the chart back, you'd say, hey, 147 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: here's this particular of species um and and at this 148 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: point it diverged and there's uh, and it's its ancestors 149 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: became Neanderthals and became humans. Right, So there's Homo erect us, right, 150 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: and then that's the branch of Homo Heidelberg genis saying that, right, 151 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: which I just picture a caveman in uh edohosen, I 152 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: know that's Heiderberg. Uh. And then of course that evolved 153 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: that that species evolved into neander tools right. Yeah, it's 154 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: it's like the same thing that we like, we share 155 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: common ancestors with the champion chimpanzee, but we did not 156 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: evolve from a chimpanzee. So if you had any of 157 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: that kicking around your head, get rid of that. Yeah, 158 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: our genetic material is shared with Neanderthals, yes, uh. And 159 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: another interesting fact to keep in mind is that is 160 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: that again we we coexisted with Neanderthals for for for 161 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: for a brief period of time as far as as 162 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: evolutionary history goes. But but but we did coexist, right. 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: They became extinct about thirty thousand years ago. Yeah, and 164 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: they may have survived in in some very remote areas 165 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: for perhaps up to twenty four thousand years ago. And 166 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: that's a specifically Gibraltar. You know, in the Strait of Gibraltar. Um, 167 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: there's a site there called Gorman's Cave that people have 168 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: studied a lot. So this is an isolated area that 169 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: that you know sits an island. They end up there 170 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: and they end up holding out there for a while, 171 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: but eventually, um, they're out injeri In. But what I 172 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: find really interesting is that neanderthal has got a bad 173 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: rap because they weren't these great bedazzlers. Oh yeah, because 174 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: they're like, well, where are their cave drawings? Where there 175 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: are their beads and their where's their jewelry? So but 176 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: at that time that was the litmus test of whether 177 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: or not you were um sophisticated enough to be thought 178 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: of as as cool as Homo sapiens, right, and so 179 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: that really did contribute to this idea of them as 180 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: knuckle drivers, actually, which is unfortunate because they are so 181 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: much more nuanced than um than that, and in fact 182 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: um it reminds me of Kazuo Shigaros. Never let me 183 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: go the novel. But the children, Yes, this is the 184 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: My wife read this for a book club, and it's 185 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: basically the same plot as the old sci fi film 186 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: parts the Clonus Hare, which they did for MST. Three K. 187 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: And also there was some what was that the Island. Yeah, 188 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: basically you know the idea of like, oh, let's let's 189 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: have clones of ourselves, so we can have spare parts, right, 190 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: so we can just pick up this organ from this person. 191 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: But one of the central um topics in the book 192 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: is that the children must produce artwork to prove their 193 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: own humanity. And so I was thinking about that. I 194 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: was thinking, well, that's the same case with Neanderthals. Is 195 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: that we thought, well, we don't see any cave paintings, 196 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: therefore they must have been brutes, they must have been 197 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: without sympathy or you know, these these higher ideas of 198 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: our emotions in our humanity. But we'll find this out later. 199 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: It's that's not the case at all. Yeah. Well, also 200 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: it's it's important to note that some of the early 201 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: cave drawings that you counter like pictures of our pictures 202 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: of animals, you know, pictures of prey, and and they 203 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: think that a lot of that is probably used to 204 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: to teach. This presentation is brought to you by Intel 205 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: sponsors of tomorrow. So it's not like they were like 206 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: they were like, Oh, I have free time, I must 207 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: create some art. Let me draw an antelope. Isn't it beautiful? Now? 208 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: It was probably more like, like, I'm really trying to 209 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: drive home that you had a hunt and antelope, kid, 210 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: let me draw one on the wall. Yeah, this isn't 211 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: cubism here. Yeah. So so I think we can sort 212 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: of get a little, uh, a little lofty about our 213 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: ideas concerning early primitive artwork. Yeah. And you've touched on 214 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: this too as well. Is it the superiority myth? This 215 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: idea that Homo safetians are really the only cool kids 216 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: in town because they mastered fire, um, just speak tools, 217 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: agriculture or someone and so forth. Yeah, And it really 218 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: kind of flows into sort of a manifest destiny that 219 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 1: you know, this idea that we're special. We've got to 220 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: be special. Um, you know, we're we're here where that 221 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: we must be the superior design. There could not possibly 222 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: be a better one, right, And that's the cool thing 223 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: about looking at this UM and thinking about it in 224 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: the context. We are the kid cool kids here right now. 225 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: But you know, two thousand years from now, they'll be 226 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: looking back at us saying, what in the world were 227 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: they doing? Yeah? We um and Neandertals first met our 228 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: human ancestors in the Middle East about a hundred and 229 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: thirty thousand years ago. Uh and perhaps uh, perhaps after 230 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: about a half million years of separation when they split 231 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: off from that common ancestor, then they contacted each other 232 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: again in Eurasia roughly forty five thousand years ago. And 233 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: and this is where we end up, you know. And 234 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: there are a lot of questions about what these contacts 235 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: consisted of. Uh. For one thing, you know, those cave 236 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: drawings that we've mentioned, you don't see any cave drawings 237 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: of Neanderthals, So it's it's not like they were just 238 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: running into each other the supermarket all the time. Again, 239 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: we're dealing with small populations of people, people that moved 240 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: around for the most part, So yeah, nomadic people. So 241 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: it's not again, it's not like people run into each 242 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: other all the time. And even human populations are were 243 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: likely to be running into you run into a group 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: that speaks differently that that are that are very alien 245 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: from you, there may be just as alien from you 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: as these uh, slightly heavy set guys who who look 247 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: pretty intimidating and look like they could really take you 248 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: down with the tackle if need be. But we know 249 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: know that that we humans tangled with neander tolls and 250 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: when by tangling mean they had sex with each other. Yeah, 251 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: at least some like it. It apparently happens. Yeah, the 252 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: genetic evidence is there. Did it happen all the time? No? No, 253 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's not the kind of thing it's 254 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: happening all the time. No, And in fact, if that 255 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: were the case, then, um, we would have a lot 256 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: more evidence in our own DNA. Right right now, we've 257 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: got traces of two to of Neanderthals and the modern 258 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: human genome in populations outside of Africa, which is interesting. Um, 259 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: so you know there's some evidence there that again they 260 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: tangoed um and this we learned from the Max Planck 261 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Institute because they sequenced the Neanderthal genoa. And they also 262 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: found out that they were pale skinned and they had 263 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: a range of colors including red hair. Yeah. Um. And 264 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: they shared the language gene with us, Yeah, which is 265 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: fox P two right, Yeah, that's that's the one there. 266 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: In fact, there have been some some arguments that they 267 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: may have uh, they have may have communicated musically. You 268 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: remember this from from our research for the Music Healing 269 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: the Mind. Yeah, music, can music rebuild your brain? Yeah? 270 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: And it was the bone flute yeah yeah, um, and 271 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: that was something like I don't know it was fifty 272 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: years ago or I fix thousand year old instrument. That 273 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: is clearly it's it's intentional and it's marking. Some people 274 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: have said, oh, animals made the holes in the bone, 275 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: but if you look at the pictures of it, like 276 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: the holes are pretty exact. Um, so it's not too 277 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: far off to think that they'd be able to to 278 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: use it as a musical instrument. They're also you also 279 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: see different examples of cannibalistic or well, okay, there's some 280 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: examples of cannibal possible cannibalism among the neandertals and also uh, 281 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: some evidence and with the bones to suggest that humans 282 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: may have eaten neanderthals at different times and possibly made 283 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: necklaces out of their children's teeth. Yeah, which is just 284 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: gonna happen. I mean, and you know, to call back 285 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: to another podcast, we have the Whole Cannibalism podcast where 286 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: we dealt primarily with cannibalism in nature. So if you 287 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: haven't listened to that one, if you were like my wife, 288 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: you were scared off from it thinking it was gonna 289 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: be about mainly about people eating other people. It's really 290 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: mostly about uh, about animals eating their own type praying 291 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: mances offering themselves up and a love victual to get 292 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: their heads. Been on lots of sexual cannibalism of that 293 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: kind of thing in that podcast. But one of the 294 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: things we really drove tried to drive drive home in 295 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: that was that cannibalism, when you strip away all of 296 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: the the the modern human taboos and all, it really 297 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. So it's just the idea 298 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: that you would encounter it. That doesn't mean that we're 299 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: suggesting to do it, but no, no, in the context 300 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: of when it happened, it made sense, right, because they're 301 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: hardy protein sources. Yeah, yeah, And you know it's otherwise 302 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: that that stuff is going to go to waste and 303 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: you might starve to death, so of course you eat it. 304 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: There are also some arguments out there that these early groups, 305 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: including the andertal Is, also partook of some scavenging. So 306 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: it's also in a situation where there's some war dead 307 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: either on your from your own tribe, but from this 308 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: group that you just had a little um miscommunication with. Again, 309 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: why I let that, Why I let the vultures have that? 310 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: When that's those are some some vital nutrients that could 311 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: sustain you as you continue to to scour the landscape 312 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: for for what will hopefully be your next meal. Right, 313 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: And talking about miss communication or communication makes me again 314 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: think of the speech gene and the fact that because 315 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: they had the large brains and they had that gene, 316 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: and because they also had a tiny bone in the 317 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: throat called the highoid um, which supports the soft tissue 318 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: of the throat and it holds the root of the 319 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: tongue in place, which is a requirement for speech, makes 320 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: me think that Um and and many others, that they 321 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: did have some sort of language what we do know 322 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: is that their lantn x is much higher in their 323 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: throat than humans, which would have limited some of their speech. 324 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: But it's it's a it's good to note that because 325 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: again that that would have helped them to have survived, 326 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: to be able to communicate with one another, but in 327 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: the long run that it may have actually um contributed 328 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: to their demise interests of Homo sapiens well, and also 329 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: we've seen plenty of evidence that just because i mean 330 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: even just among Homo sapiens, just because one group can 331 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: talk to the other, doesn't any other group isn't going 332 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: to attempt to wipe them out, you know, No, Yeah, 333 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: And that's it was more in the well, we'll talk 334 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: about it later, but it was more in the context 335 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: of is it are you better suited to survive if 336 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: you can communicate really well with each other? Um. But 337 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: another thing about Neanderthals that has been that the veil 338 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: has been lifted on is toolmaking and some other school 339 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: skills and things that they've done. Again, it was thought 340 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: that humans had the upper hand with tools, but it 341 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 1: turns out that Neanderthals were just as sophisticated with their 342 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: tools and in some cases. Um, the shales or the 343 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: blades were a lot more effective than the homosapiene Homo 344 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: sapiens um. So there you go. Mad skills. Yeah, these 345 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: guys were hunters. Um. These guys make glue, Yeah, which 346 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: is just pretty amazing. It's yeah, do you mind if 347 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: I talk about it? So amazed by this? Uh, it's 348 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: the glue is made from tightly rolled strips of birch bark, 349 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: and it's deposited into a hole in the ground and 350 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: then they cover that with earth and they see at oxygen. 351 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: Then they take a small holdering stick put that in there, 352 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: and because the birch is deprived of oxygen, it sweats 353 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: out pitch and so when it cools, it can be 354 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: used in tools to bond materials together. And the even 355 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: cooler thing about it is that you can take that 356 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: piece of cooled pitch and take it anywhere. Of course, 357 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: thematic right, so they're gonna they're gonna bring it with them, 358 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: and then all you have to do is reheat it, 359 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: uh to use it again. And the reason I'm bringing 360 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: this up is because the I don't can't remember those 361 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: as a PBS special. I'll have to look at my 362 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: research notes. But the video clip that I saw this, 363 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: it was really difficult for them to do and to 364 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: do right. So it took a lot of skill, and 365 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: it took a lot of trial and air and even 366 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: in this day and age, for you and I to 367 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: try to do this, and I'm sure that would be 368 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: a lot of expletives flying. You know, there'll be a 369 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: steep learning curve. So for them to be able to 370 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: do this is amazing. Yeah. I can't can barely cook 371 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: dinner for myself without resorting the cursing, So I can't 372 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: imagine making glue in my backyard. I know, I remember 373 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: your risotto st technique needed some observation by a second party. 374 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: So yes, um, I cook best when I'm I'm helping, 375 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: not taking the lead. You're more of a chef. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 376 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: there's no shame in that chef. That's an important rule. 377 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: But they also used pollen. A lot of pollen was 378 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: found in the caves, and that's used as an antiseptic 379 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: and a salve. And speaking of of pollen, it's it's 380 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: worth pointing out that they were not specifically carnivorous. Yeah, 381 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: it seems like meat was a big part of their diet. 382 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: They were. They were probably steak fans and would have 383 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: been found frequenting out back if they were around today. 384 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: But but they did eat vegetable matter. They did when 385 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: they did the scavenge for seeds. When when that when 386 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: when they when they were available? Yeah, and they yeah, 387 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: that's right, they found some plant plant matter and the 388 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: molars um. And again here you have this idea of 389 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: them as being these you know, cavemen who were just 390 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, and of course they were were taking down 391 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: some large animals, but they weren't, you know, primarily carnivorous. Um. 392 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: So this idea they invented the blooming onion. Actually people 393 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: really know that, but oh yeah they did. Um, Well, 394 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: you just threw me there. I'm like, now I'm imagining 395 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: them over the fire with their blooming onions. Um, I'm 396 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: salivating a little bit. And that's just so wrong. But 397 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: the other thing is a lot of people thought of 398 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: them is sort of like the dirty hippies too, of hominids. Um. 399 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: But in fact, the hygiene thing has been brought up 400 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: before that their teeth has shown very little decay, so 401 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: they were taking care of their their teeth in some manner. Well, 402 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: and it's it's also a lot easier to take care 403 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: of your teeth if you don't have a huge sugar 404 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: um diet. So um. You know these guys, you know, 405 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: aside from some nuts and berries here and there, you know, 406 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: they're probably not, uh, you know, sucking down as much 407 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: sugar as modern humans do. Yeah. Yeah, they're probably whittling 408 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: their own little toothpicks too. Yeah. Actually you know how 409 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: many evidence of that? But I'd like to um so 410 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: in in in thinking about like how how a this 411 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: human or humanlike population grew and expanded and eventually dwindled 412 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: and disappeared, you you really have to think of it 413 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: in terms of geology, climate, and resources. Um, because we're 414 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: talking about long stretches of time, your hundreds of thousands 415 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: of years during which the Earth's climate kind of whopped 416 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: around back and forth, kind of like a ping pong 417 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: ball where you had you had periods of cooling, you 418 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: had and you had periods of heat, you had some 419 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: some glacial stuff mixed in there, and uh and and 420 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: when the weather changes, it changes the the geology. And 421 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: when yeah, and when and over long periods of times 422 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: of the course of geology changes, it changes the weather. 423 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: So these are all things that are in flux and 424 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: they force in the same way that that you see 425 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: like populations of birds moving around. Uh. Um, you know 426 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: it's like oh, you know people and looking at say, 427 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: you know, global global warming and climate change. You know, 428 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: you see how populations of animals are are are affected. 429 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: And at this time, I mean, the humans were very 430 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: much uh. I mean humans are are susceptible to this 431 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: even now, but at the time, you know, if animals 432 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: had to move to a different geographical location, than the 433 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: humans were forced into that area as well, right, I mean, 434 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: and just to put it into context, to the global 435 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: warming that we experienced now is different from what they 436 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: were experiencing in terms of extreme climate changes. So the Neanderthals, 437 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: they survived the ice age, they did really well with that. 438 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: It became very compact and muscular, right. Um. But but 439 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: then at some point, um, the climates kept changing very 440 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: quick and within you know, a span of a lifetime, 441 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: a lot of their landscape could have changed, and in fact, 442 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: we know it changed. So the force that they relied 443 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: on they have receded, and all of a sudden they 444 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: have less area to hunt in. Yeah, and uh yeah 445 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: to this really bois done to two areas that really 446 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: stuck out to me, um about how how this these 447 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: changes in climate affected them. Um alright, one key thing 448 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: to look at is that Neanderthals, as far as we know, 449 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: never took to farming, never took up our agriculture, which 450 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: of course is just was a was and continued to 451 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: be a vital part of modern humanity. Yeah and keep 452 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: in mind or aromatic too. Yeah, yeah, they're nomadic. Um 453 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: and again and again. Agriculture is the thing that you 454 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: know made us settle down that and then ultimately lead 455 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: to uh, to the to the construction of villages and 456 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: cities that gave us the free time to specialize in 457 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: different skills and allowed like you know, one old dude 458 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: to just set around the village all day painting stuff, Um, 459 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: making those cool cave painting. Yeah. Yeah, we're making you know, 460 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: making little gold frogs or something. But Neanderthals never took 461 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: to the agricultural way of life. For the greater part 462 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: of their Eurasian dominance. Uh, the climate was harsher and 463 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: more sporadic than it was today. So it just wasn't 464 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: good a good time to get into farming. Um. You know, 465 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: even if even if they wanted to. They were smart 466 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: enough to. They were skilled enough too, So it wasn't 467 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: a situation where they would have been like, what is carrot? 468 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: How me plan? You know, it wouldn't have been a 469 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: situation like that. But that the time was not right 470 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: for the agricultural leap right, and well that they were 471 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: so tethered to their own physicality to right. But yeah, yeah, 472 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: and when conditions improved, when it did get become farming time, Um, 473 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: there wasn't that much really pushing them to leave behind 474 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: these honey and gathering techniques that worked well for them, right, 475 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: Because I was thinking about it that they they put 476 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: scientists put that the extreme climate changes about forty years ago. 477 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: They became extinct about years so for fifteen thousand years 478 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: and in crazy climates they they still have toe hold 479 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: in it, right, they were still existing. But eventually you're 480 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: going to die off, and you know you're not gonna 481 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: You're gonna lose that to toe hold and um, those 482 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: great stocking limbs that you had are going to be 483 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: problems on it because they require more calories to up 484 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: keep and there's less protein sources around. And that body 485 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: style that they had, that that meaty tough, you know, 486 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: wrestler build um. The main way that this suited them 487 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: u was in ambushing their prey. They were used to 488 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: dealing with with wooded or semi wooded area somewhere you know, 489 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: they can hide and cover, wait till that deer, that 490 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: ibex um you know, or that that bloomin onion comes 491 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: in close enough, you know, wait in the wait in 492 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: the cover, and then leap out and uh and really 493 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: throw down with that deer. So it was like a 494 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: wrestler on the ropes, right, yeah, come down. Yeah, he's 495 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: like he's on the ropes, let's get him. And then 496 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: they you know, just beat the crap out of the deer. 497 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: Or they were more like you know, they do spears 498 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: and whatnot. But they've also they've also found injuries and 499 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: some of the new their tolls that that they say 500 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: resemble rodeo rider um um injuries. So it's which you know, 501 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: so just imagine it's like you have a pretty dangerous 502 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: animal probably probably perhaps with big horns or antlers and 503 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: uh and these guy and again they probably would probably 504 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: they probably would not go after some of the larger 505 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: like megafauna. You know, they probably would not be hunting 506 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: rhinoceros or something like that, but something like a deer 507 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: and ibex. So they hide, it comes into into range, 508 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: they jump out, they surround it, and they just start. 509 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: They are a clown in this scenario, I hope. So 510 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: I hope that there was like a neandertal early clowning. 511 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: That's why they didn't paint rocks there. They their art 512 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: was many performance artists. Um. But yeah, that's interesting that 513 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: you bring up the injury too, because I remember reading 514 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: that those injuries were often times sustained when they were 515 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: much younger, and so it's for some of them it 516 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: could really limit their range of motion. And this is 517 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: where the community really comes into play, because those with 518 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: the elderly in the infirm were obviously taken care of 519 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: by the group, which is another factor of this of them, 520 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: you know, yea some sort of culture, so it's not 521 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: just like, oh, that one's hurt, we're going to leave 522 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: him behind. Yeah, we'll eat you later. Yeah. And you 523 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: can easily imagine too, like a system where it's like, 524 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: all right, the young guys, you guys haven't had your 525 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: legs broken yet, so you're the ones who leap onto 526 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: the ibex is back and uh, your father and grandpa 527 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: are going to stand back with the spears. You know. 528 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: It's it's I'm just sort of imagining things. But but 529 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: but it's easy to to see how the system like 530 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: this might work. Now. What happens though when climate change 531 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: causes your forests to shrink and it ends up creating this, uh, 532 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: this step tundra environment where suddenly you have more and 533 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: more just vast empty stretches of of you know, no 534 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: cover where you see you can see the herds of 535 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: reindeer or or or you know, ibex or whatever, but 536 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: they're off in the distance. It's like, how are you 537 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: gonna how are you gonna get that? So you see 538 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of competition for that, right, and you 539 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: see the emergence of persistence hunting, which there's a there's 540 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: an excellent sequence in the BBC Discovery documentary of the 541 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: Life of Mammals where they show because the final episode 542 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: that you know, they get up to the mammal humans 543 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: and they they they deal with sand people of the 544 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: Kalahari Desert, the last tribes supposedly on Earth to use 545 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: this ancient technique and this is where humans use running 546 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: and tracking to pursue prey just to the point of exhaustion. 547 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: See as humans, we of course can sweat um and 548 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: we you know, it reduces our body heat. But if 549 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: you're chasing some sort of quadruped uh, this particular prey 550 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: animal probably needs to slow down from a gallop to 551 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: a pand so it's the it's like the I kind 552 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: of think of it as the terminator method of hunting, 553 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, where it's just like slow, you're never you're 554 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: not gonna actually outrun the gazelle or whatever. You're gonna 555 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: You're just not gonna stop. You're just gonna follow it, 556 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: and it's not gonna lose your trail, and you're just 557 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: gonna keep on and keep on until it literally falls down. 558 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: You see the videos of this is the animal just 559 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: eventually collapses and then the humans just walk up and 560 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: finish it off. So the Neanderthals, we're not we're not 561 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: built for this like this, this skill becomes the survival technique, 562 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: and they're they're just physically generally not able to carry 563 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: it out. There are also probably a lot of human 564 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: populations around this time that we're equally unsuited for this 565 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: new way of life, and they also went the way 566 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: of any other space. It's not just the Neanderthals we're 567 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: talking about, right, We're talking about a lot of you know, 568 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: it's like like any kind of like changes in an 569 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: economic situation, you know, like the economy changes. Oh suddenly 570 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: big bloated businesses can't survive and you know, maybe the 571 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: little guys are going to do better. This is I mean, 572 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: this is the same thing with the physicality, right, right, 573 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: I mean there are other uh Homorectus types out there 574 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: at the same time. We're just focusing again, we're just 575 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: focusing on Neanderthals, but there are other species existing out 576 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: there at this time period, um that that aren't making 577 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: the cut either. Yeah, and and also and again it 578 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: comes under resources to this. It's not a situation where 579 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: humans were like, all right, we're here, now, let's kill 580 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: all the Neanderthals. You're talking about generations and generations of 581 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: of the landscape of of human and human void populations changing, 582 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: where where the humans gradually outcompete the Neanderthals for resources. 583 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: The Neanderthals end up being isolated in smaller and smaller areas, 584 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: um in more isolated areas, until they are eventually a 585 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: uh to uh to steal a phrase from from a 586 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: book we were just reading, um Finlayson. Yeah, they become 587 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: the living debt, like a panda or a tire, though 588 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: in my opinion, far more interesting in panda. But you know, 589 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: they reached the point and where well that you don't know, 590 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: Neanderthals could have been could have been very cut like. Actually, 591 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: what I think it's funny about this is early depictions 592 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: of them made them look so caveman man apish, and 593 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: now that we've had this understanding of them, much fuller 594 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: understanding the last five ten years, they look so much 595 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: more human. Like. Yeah, they have like our different wax 596 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: depictions of them. They've gone from like you know, from 597 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: again like you know, you know, slope faced beast man 598 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: to looking like just somebody you'd encounter, you know, the street. Yeah. 599 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: Now that depictions have like little bow ties on them. Yeah. Yeah, 600 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's like fashion shoots and I like that. 601 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: You need to tell a w magazine about that. So 602 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: why us Why didn't Why did we persist? Uh? It 603 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: largely comes down to a situation of we were It 604 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: was just we were in the right place at the 605 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: right time. Really, we were better suited to roll with 606 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: some of the changes that were coming down the pike. 607 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: If the changes have been a little different, occurred at 608 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: a different time, it could have gone the other way 609 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: and we could cover more territory. Right, So we weren't 610 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: a stocky or muscular Yeah, we were. We were better 611 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: suited to persistence hunting. We we took to agriculture, we 612 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: um and we also, I mean we we also eventually 613 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: just got a better foothold on on our population because again, 614 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: you know, the Neanderthal population never got above like probably 615 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: fifteen thou So a smaller population is always going to 616 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: be more susceptible to extinction. Um. And once you reach 617 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: a certain size, and and in our case, when you 618 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: reach a certain sophistication, you're really not going to deal 619 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: with that as much, unless, of course, you engineer your 620 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: own extinction through any number of ways that were actually Leaky, 621 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: the granddaughter of Mary Leaky, has an interesting ted talk 622 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: and she talks about that. She says, hey, like, don't 623 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: get too much on your high horse, Homo sapiens, because 624 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: we've only got two hundred thousand years of skin in 625 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: the game, and you know, look at our how our 626 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: population has gone nuts and the resources that are dwindling. 627 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: So don't get too excited here about the old continuation 628 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: of of our species. Yeah yeah, because there's again at 629 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: all a lot of it comes down to geography, climate, 630 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: and resources. And if you look at the state of 631 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: human civilization, you can find some red flags really in 632 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: all three of those areas. And uh, yeah, how are 633 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: we going to roll with the changes? Yeah? I know, 634 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, we have a dropped learnings and it 635 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: allows us to communicate in a more nuanced way, and 636 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: we can teach each other in a more effective way 637 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: than the nder tools. But yeah, what about what about 638 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: climate change? What about small yeah? Or onions and and 639 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: of course you know, there's always a chance that we may, 640 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, eradicate ourselves with the with nuclear weapons. We 641 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: I don't think that's entirely off the table yet, um 642 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: as as much as we would like to hope. So 643 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: but hey, there you go, Nanderthals, Yeah, planet Neanderthal. Uh So, 644 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope you you might look at them 645 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: a little differently the next time somebody mentioned it, and 646 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: the next time somebody slurs with them, you know, stand 647 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: up for your your evolutionary brother. Yeah, yeah, get and 648 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: check out if you'd like the Max Planck Institute. They've 649 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: got some really interesting information on the Neanderthal genome and 650 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: they have a really great video called the Neanderthal in Us. Yeah, 651 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: kind of like tobiaspoon Case The Man Inside Me. That's right. Well, hey, 652 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: we got some listener mail. Here's which I think I'll 653 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: fly through here real quick. Our listener Eric writes in 654 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: and and uh, he's responding to our our podcast the 655 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: Werewolf Principle engineering teams for outer space, which is one 656 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed to do. And he says it was 657 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: interesting to hear about modifications to the body that might 658 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: be made to help people fly in space. But you 659 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: made two mistakes. First, deaf people would have would be 660 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: able to use the radio, something that was a little 661 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: bit critical to space. Why. And I believe here he's 662 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: referring to something we corrected in a or well clarified 663 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: and the previous listener mail, and that is that there 664 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: are various forms of deafness and only one really falls 665 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: under the under the model that was discussed in that podcast, 666 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: which is to say not all deaf people would yes 667 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: not suffer from from yet from motion. Uh. Weirdness in 668 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: the space, but Eric goes into them to to add 669 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: some some really interesting stuff here. He says, you also 670 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: missed a rather obviously at least to me point. Every 671 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: person who has flown in space has carried forty or 672 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: fifty pounds of equipment with him that is not only 673 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: completely useless in microgravity, but can even get in the 674 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: way their legs. A human leg from hip to flop 675 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: including the foot, weighs about twenty to thirty pounds, and 676 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: a person in reasonable shape as an ampute myself, I 677 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: think amputees have been overlooked as astronauts, though I am 678 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: not sure I'd be willing to have what's left of 679 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: my legs removed for a chance to fly in space. 680 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm an s p k AMT two anyway, great program, 681 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: uh Art, So that was that was some really interesting insight. 682 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: I really had not thought as much about that about, 683 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, because you see shots of astronauts floating around, 684 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: and indeed it's not like they're using their toes to 685 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: manipulate things. Here's a brief note from listener Chris. He says, 686 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: in reference to your podcast Underground Robotic Highway, you stated 687 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: that the driverless Google cars drove around San Francisco driverless wall. 688 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: Technically that is true. There was a driver in the 689 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: car to take control if needed. Left the podcast, keep 690 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 1: up the great work, um. And indeed, just to clarify, 691 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: there was a driver and these things were not just 692 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: rolling around unattended. There was you know, you can think 693 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: of it like a driver's ad class, where as a 694 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: human there in case something goes crazy. Although I love 695 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: the idea of you know, he's going around like Lombard Street. Yeah, 696 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: what's kind of like unattended? Like? Is it? I believe 697 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: David Sadarris pointed out that is it Michigan where blind 698 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: hunters can go out hunting alone? I don't know, but 699 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that sounds very Michigan as a Michigan 700 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: so this is sort of like that. UM. I have 701 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: another one here from listener Jane. Jane says, I listen 702 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: to your podcast about the curies, uh, and this is 703 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: about scientists and love and wanted to say thanks for 704 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: a great show. My husband and I met as undergraduates 705 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: at a nuclear and radio chemistry summer school put on 706 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: by the Durent Department of Energy, and I'm now working 707 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: to finish my PhD in radio chemistry, and my husband 708 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: is working as the reactor supervisor at our university's nuclear reactor. 709 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: He has a master's degree in chemistry, and when I 710 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: finished my time here, he will get his PhD. Considering 711 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: how I met my husband, I've always loved the story 712 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: of Marie and Verry Pierre Curie. It was great to 713 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: hear more personal side to their amazing scientific contributions. I 714 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: love y'all show. So there we go. There's a nice 715 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: stuff feedback from us some listeners I know, and that 716 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: just made me think I would love to see some 717 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: m r I scans of scientists and love and compare 718 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: them to the general population. I think that works. Yeah, 719 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: that would that would actually be a great like a 720 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,959 Speaker 1: great art excipt. I would go suggest, all right, someone 721 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: out there there you go, so, hey, do you want 722 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: to come see what we're up to, what we're thinking about, 723 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: what we're writing about, what we're podcasting about. You can 724 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter and Facebook as blow the Mind, 725 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 1: and you can also drop us a line at Blow 726 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff works dot com. For more 727 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff 728 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click 729 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of 730 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: our homepage. The House Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. 731 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes.