1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: it will be different. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 5: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 5: on him. 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 6: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 3: Anything he does, he's fascinating the people. Welcome to Elaning 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, April thirtieth. 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: I'm your host, David Papadopolis. This week we're talking about 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 3: China and X. Elon took his jet to Beijing Sunday, 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 3: where he cut a deal that will allow Tesla to 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: sell what it calls full self driving technology. So far 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: the market approves. Tesla stock soared the most in three 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: years on Monday, extending a rebound that began after last 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,639 Speaker 3: week's earnings call. Then we're going to go down memory 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 3: lane as we celebrate the two year anniversary of the 22 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 3: Twitter board accepting Musk's offer to buy the company. Oh, 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,279 Speaker 3: Elon's tried a lot of things these past two years, 24 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 3: and let's just say not all of them have quite 25 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: worked out dating service anyone. But before all that, a 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: quick programming note. We're hitting the road again. We'll be 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 3: in San Francisco next week to record a live episode 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 3: at the Bloomberg Tech Summit. Come join us. We're going 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: to start off with Tesla and for this, as always, 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: we have Dana Hull, Bloomberg's Elon Reporter extraordinaire Ala Dana. Hey, Hey, 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: And we have Max Chepkin, Bloomberg BusinessWeek's senior writer editor 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: and ava fanatic of the New York Metropolitans. Hey, David, Hello, Max, Okay, Dana. 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 3: So we wake up Sunday to find Elon is in Beijing. 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: I'm not sure we knew that was going to happen. 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 3: He shows up out of the blue there to do 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 3: what exactly and does he achieve what he's trying to do? 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: Well? I mean, if you follow his jet, which obviously 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: those of us who follow Elon, no, I mean you 39 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: knew that he was heading to China, but it wasn't 40 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: an announced visit, if that's what you mean. But I 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: think what's interesting is, you know, to back up for 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: a minute, Elon was supposed to go to India. He 43 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: cancels the trip to India, says he's got pressing matters 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: at Tesla. He has an earnings call where he basically 45 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: says the future of the company is all about autonomy. 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: And then he pops up in Beijing, which is not 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: where Tesla has its factory, but he meets with like 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: the number two guy in China, and then basically they're 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: trying to get permission to unroll what they call FSD 50 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: in China, which is a huge undertaking because the mapping 51 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: in China is very different than the road system in 52 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: the United States that it's like a whole different regulatory regime. 53 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: It's an enormous country. But this is like a big 54 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: deal for Elon, and I think it just kind of 55 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: shows that, like, you know, love him or hate him, 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: whatever you think about the guy, he is just like 57 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: operating on a level that is very different from the 58 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: way most other CEOs operate. And you know, so he's 59 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: in China and the stock goes up to its highest, 60 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, has its highest gain in over three years. 61 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: The market is betting on this whole idea that the 62 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: future of the company is not really about selling cars, 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: it's about selling software. 64 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: You know, Max, It's funny. For the longest time I've 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: been telling myself that, boy, we really need to talk 66 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: about China on this podcast. We have failed to Max 67 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: until now. China is pretty darn important for Tesla, is 68 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 3: it not. 69 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Tesla is a factory in China. As Dana hinted, 70 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: China is also the biggest market for electric vehicle. It's 71 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: widely thought of as sort of the market with the 72 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: most potential for electric vehicle sales. And you know that's 73 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: because it's a huge country, of course, big economy, but 74 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: also because the government, the Chinese government has invested and 75 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: promoted this industry in a huge way, and it actually 76 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: has made Elon Musk kind of a centerpiece of that. 77 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: The thing is, what's happened in the past couple of 78 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: years is we've seen this new wave of Chinese car companies. 79 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: We've talked on this podcast before about byd Jaomi, you know, 80 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: better known as smartphone maker, is making cars. Lots of 81 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: Chinese companies are having lots of success making cars, which 82 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: was kind of the plan all along. I mean The 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: reason that China gave Elon Musk a bunch of sort 84 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: of favorable policies and so on was because they wanted this. 85 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: They wanted him to kind of be at the center 86 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: of their EV industry, and that's kind of what happened. 87 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: And and Elon Musk is kind of still enjoying the 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: fruits of that relationship, right. 89 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: So they did court him back in the day to 90 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: help jump start their EV industry they needed in Then 91 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: I get the sense that China doesn't quite need him 92 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: as much now. He kind of needs China more than 93 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: China needs him. 94 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 4: No, China doesn't need him. 95 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: We were talking about India a couple of weeks ago, 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: and I mentioned that, you know, it's a little risky 97 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: to go to India and potentially announce a big investment 98 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: because China is not going to like that. And I 99 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: don't think it's a coincidence that we had this cancelation 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 2: of the India trip and this trip to China. And 101 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: when you look at the way that the Chinese media 102 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: is playing it, you know they're mentioning, prominently mentioning the 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: cancelation of the India trip. 104 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: Now, Dana, this deal that he has apparently inked for 105 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: full self driving, which we have described at length in 106 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: previous episodes. You can you can just find those discussions 107 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: there in the archive. But is this deal, Dana Hall, 108 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: is it final or is it they still need to 109 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 3: work out some other particular No, I don't. 110 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Think it's final. I think it's like directionally positive that 111 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: they got you know, he you know, so he was 112 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: in Beijing meeting with the Number two talking about FSD. 113 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: He's got a relationship with Beadu to sort of underwrite 114 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: or underpin a lot of the mapping that's needed. He 115 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: got some permission from not the military directly, but like 116 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: some kind of military apparatus that will allow Tesla to 117 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: operate more easily in China. I mean a lot of 118 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: things still have to happen, but it's all directionally very positive. 119 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: And Tesla hasn't announced anything. I mean, there's been no 120 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: announcement or filing from Tesla whatsoever saying that they're now 121 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: rolling out FSD in China. But that's certainly what the 122 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: market is excited about. 123 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 4: I mean, there's no deal. 124 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: They're on a list of like qualified car companies to 125 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: conceivably along with like dozens of others. I think I 126 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: think some seventy or eighty other car models are on 127 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: this list that give them the right to conceivably launch this, 128 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: and they're all of these issues. So China, of course 129 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: is very concerned learned about AI. You know this, this 130 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: is not a liberal democracy as a country that regulates 131 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: its technology very closely that you know, wants certain access 132 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: to data and that's very important with you know, any 133 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: kind of software and especially with a data collection scheme 134 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: like a quote unquote Robotaxi. And the other thing is 135 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: China has been very adamant about ensuring that local partners 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: are playing a role, so that's why they had this this. 137 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: The other part of this is this announcement of a 138 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: deal with Baidu, which Tesla already had you know, a 139 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: relationship with before. But it's it's essentially like little breadcrumbs 140 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: that point in a somewhat promising direction. And that coupled 141 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: with Elon Musk saying last week that he thought, you know, 142 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: full self driving quote unquote could happen in China, that 143 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: the people are taking that as a positive sign. 144 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're going to go back to that earnings call. 145 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: Actually now, you know, Dana whether the market reaction this 146 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: week when the stock short fifteen percent on Monday, is 147 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 3: an overreaction or not. It comes on the heels of 148 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: a big rebound in the stock last week as well. 149 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: The stock, of course, had been tanking all year, and 150 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: now it's it's bounced back over thirty percent, even though 151 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 3: I think it's it opened up down a bit today. 152 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: I suppose to a certain degree, you kind of got 153 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 3: to give it to Musk. He sort of pulled a 154 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: rabbit out of his hat here, turning around a stock 155 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: that had been essentially in free fall. 156 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 7: Yeah. 157 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean he changed the narrative, and he's very good 158 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: at that. I mean, this is a guy who's been 159 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: the CEO since two thousand and eight. He has been 160 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: through cycles before and and he kind of he understands 161 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: Wall Street psychology, which is like what is the long 162 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: term future of the company. And you know, so the 163 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: whole year has been crappy, the stock has been down. 164 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: He seemed distracted. He seemed to be focusing on all 165 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: of his other companies and not on Tesla, which is 166 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: the key to his wealth. You had the layoffs, you 167 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: had sagging sales, like all this like negative negative, negative, negative, 168 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: so he comes into the earnings call and like he 169 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: knows that he's got to turn it around, so he 170 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: like plants a flag. 171 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, what exactly did he say on that call? Because 172 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: just shortly before he gets on that call, the earnings 173 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 3: came out, the first quarter earnings, and they were about 174 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 3: a disappointing or maybe even more disappointing than everybody had 175 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: thought they'd be. He opens his mouth though on the call, 176 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: and then the stock just starts going up and up 177 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 3: and up. What was it in particular that that investors 178 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: latched onto. 179 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: Well, he basically planted a very strong flag and talked 180 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: about autonomy. And I think we have tape on that. 181 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 3: Yes we do. You're right, let's listen to it. 182 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 5: Really, we should be thought of as an AI robotics company. 183 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 5: If you value tells it as just like an order company, 184 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 5: you would just have to fundamentally just the wrong framework 185 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 5: then will come to be. If you ask the wrong question, 186 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 5: then the right answer is impossible. I mean, if somebody 187 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 5: doesn't believe tell is going to solve autonomy, I think 188 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 5: they should not be an investor in the company. 189 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: If you just value Tessel's an auto company. Max Chafkin 190 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: you're a loser. But listen, Dana. But here's the thing. 191 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 3: Is it actually the autonomous part that drove the stock 192 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 3: up so much or was it more about him talking about, Hey, no, 193 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 3: we have actually haven't given up on this affordable tessel 194 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: model idea. 195 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was both. They basically said 196 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: it was sort of like they split the you know, 197 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: split the baby in half, or however you want to 198 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: call it. It was like, Oh, don't worry, we still 199 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: are going to make affordable cars. Ish, they're gonna be 200 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: this kind of like Frankenstein hybrid model where we're going 201 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: to take some of the new car and marry it 202 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: with some of the next generation unboxed assembly process, and 203 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: we're going to have a cheaper model maybe by the 204 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: end of this year. 205 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 3: Then actually, let's let's let's listen to the tape on 206 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 3: that as well. Hold on. 207 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 5: We've updated our future vehicle lineup to accelerate the launch 208 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 5: of new models. Head previously mentioned start production in the 209 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 5: second half of twenty twenty five, so we expect it 210 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 5: to be more like the early twenty twenty five, if. 211 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: Not late this year. 212 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 5: These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will use aspects 213 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 5: of the next generation platform as well as aspects of 214 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 5: our current platforms, and we'll be able to produce on 215 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 5: the same manufacturing lenes as like currentfig. 216 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 3: Lineup, all of which means what mister chaff. 217 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 4: It means nothing. 218 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of amazing that we went into 219 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: this saying is he going to what is he going 220 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: to say about the model to this cheaper car? And 221 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: that clip that you played that was it, I mean 222 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: during that because it raises all these questions, like so 223 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: he said that the car would be made on the 224 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 2: more affordable car will be made on the same production lines. 225 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: Kind of raises a question, so are we talking about 226 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: a new model or we talking about a cheaper version 227 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 2: of a current model, which an analyst asked and Elon 228 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: Musk said, ooh, no comment. We've said all we will 229 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: on this back to the Robotaxi, and this happened several 230 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: times during the call. An analyst would ask kind of 231 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: like a reasonable question about these new models and or 232 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: supposed new models, and Elon Musk would say, never mind, robotaxi. 233 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: And so it's pretty clear to me anyway that there 234 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 2: are two things going on. One is they're going to 235 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: launch this Robotaxi, and by launch I mean have a 236 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: car that looks Robotaxi ish and lift a sheet off 237 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: of it in August. And they are trying very aggressively 238 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: to lower the prices of the Model three and the 239 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: Model Why Elon Musk hasn't specifically said that there isn't 240 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: going to be a Model too, but it really when 241 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: you look at what he's saying, how he's saying it, 242 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: it seems pretty clear. You have two things. You have 243 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: the Robotaxi, and you have an effort to keep get 244 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: the prices on the current lineup as low as possible 245 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: and maybe do whatever you can to refresh that lineup. 246 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: And that is that is a huge departure from everything, 247 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: not everything, but for many of the things that Elon 248 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: Musk has been signaling and saying and so on over 249 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: the last year or so. 250 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 3: Okay, so Dan Max is from what I glean here 251 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: feels like the market perhaps is irrationally exuberant about mister 252 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 3: Musk's comments. Nonetheless, the stock is way back up for 253 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: the moment and things are at least looking slightly less 254 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: hour there. But the layoffs continue, do they not? 255 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: Just to be super clear, the news from this morning 256 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: is that two more key executives are gone fired or 257 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: dismissed or however it actually went down, and their entire 258 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: divisions are also closing. So and that's the new Car 259 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: division and as Dana is saying, that the Supercharger division. 260 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: So it's not like you have to like be a 261 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: close reader of the things that Elon Musk says during 262 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: his earnings call to figure out what's going on with 263 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: the new models. 264 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 4: He just dismissed the entire new model team. 265 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so's Ed Ludlow and I reported Musk 266 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: wanted to cut twenty percent, and then when they announced 267 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: the layoffs, the email from him said more than ten percent. 268 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: So like, what is that? Is that nineteen percent? Is 269 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: that eighteen percent? Like we've never gotten like a very 270 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: clear number. But the layoffs have been happening in waves, 271 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: and just overnight a lot of people on the Supercharging 272 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: team were impacted, and you're starting to see people post 273 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn and Twitter and elsewhere about how, yeah, my 274 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: team and I were wiped out. And this comes at 275 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: like a really pivotal time for the company because you know, 276 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: the big news of twenty twenty three was that Tesla 277 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: was finally opening at supercharger network to other automakers, So 278 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: if you own like a Ford or a GM electric vehicle, 279 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: you can now go to superchargers. And the whole integration 280 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: of supercharging with other automakers is a big theme of 281 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: like the summer of twenty twenty four. Now all of 282 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: the people that were in charge of kind of you know, 283 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: inking those deals and leading those partnerships are gone and 284 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: all of this is happening in the broader context of 285 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: Elon wants his pay package, so he's very much leaning 286 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: into this like I'm back in the saddle, I'm in charge, 287 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm making tough decisions, I'm laying people off, I'm going 288 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: to China. Like he's doing all this stuff to kind 289 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: of prove to his shareholders that he is still very 290 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: much the CEO and he deserves that big pay. 291 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 5: You know. 292 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: The other thing is it seems that he has closed 293 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: the policy division, which again is kind of a curious 294 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: choice when you're trying to laun a heavily regulated likely 295 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: to be controversial, you know, I think regulators are gonna 296 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: have something to say about releasing car without a steering wheel, 297 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: And it seems like at least, the current policy team 298 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: is going to be replaced with some new arrangement that 299 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: hopefully won't just be like an emoji like the NITSA 300 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: regulator send an email to to Elon Musk and they 301 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: get a poop back or something. 302 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that well, it's distinctly possible. We've we've had 303 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 3: a lot of poop emojis sent our way over these 304 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 3: last couple of years. But Dan, so, just to finish 305 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: up for a second on the earnings call, because of 306 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: course before the earnings call, we put out in front 307 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: of the world again our Tesla Bingo card, our earnings 308 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: Bingo card, and did we get bingo or not? 309 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: Once again? You know, Max and I worked really hard 310 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: to kind of try to create a create a Bingo 311 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: Bingo card. That's that was going to do it for us. 312 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: We were one short because even though he said a 313 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: lot of things that were on our card, he never 314 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: said the word interest rates, and then we would have 315 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: gotten it. We would have gotten it if he'd said 316 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: interest rates. 317 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Row one going across Robotax, Saxey regulatory approval, next 318 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: gen and Horse. 319 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: Actually he said horse twice. 320 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 3: Okay, very good. Well, we'll be back with another new 321 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 3: and improved Bingos Bingo card. Come come second quarter earnings. Okay, 322 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: So now we're gonna talk about the two year anniversary 323 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: of Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter now X and to 324 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: do that we have joining us Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg technology 325 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: reporter and author of the book Battle for the Bird. 326 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 6: Welcome, Kurt, hey, Thank you for having me appreciate it. 327 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: It's been a while since we've talked about how things 328 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: are going at X and the current state of finances there. 329 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: How is it going well. 330 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 6: We don't have many updates from the last time we 331 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: all chatted. We know that things were not going well 332 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 6: at the end of the lastlast year, not only because 333 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 6: there was the lingering effects of the advertising you know, 334 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 6: issues that the company had had, but as you all 335 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 6: remember very well, Elon then went on stage at the 336 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 6: deal Book conference and I believe it was early December 337 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 6: and told advertisers to go f themselves, right. So he 338 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 6: sort of ended twenty twenty three, came into twenty twenty 339 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 6: four on a very sour note, and as we've talked 340 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 6: about historically, like his behavior on X. In my opinion 341 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 6: and from the conversations i've had with a lot of 342 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 6: marketers is the biggest turnoff and the biggest hurdle to 343 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 6: their entire business, and we've seen that that's continued to 344 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 6: this day. You know, he tweets things that are incredibly 345 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 6: inappropriate regardless of who you are, but especially as the 346 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 6: CEO and face of this company. And so we don't 347 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 6: have numbers because they're not publicly traded, they don't have 348 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 6: to report earnings, but we just I don't think anything 349 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 6: has really improved since we talked about this a couple 350 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 6: of months ago, when things were really in a downward spiral. 351 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, Kurt on his behavior on X, he's actually 352 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 3: been trying to remove what is essentially something of a 353 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: gag order on him on X, not as it's related 354 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 3: to the company X, but as related to Tesla. This 355 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 3: is the fame Twitter sitter. Explain what's transpired. 356 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 6: Yeah, so quick backstory, But basically, after he promised to 357 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 6: or pledge to take Tesla private at four hundred and 358 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 6: twenty dollars per share, which he ultimately did not you know, 359 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 6: have the money to do, the sec came to a 360 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 6: settlement agreement with Elon where his posts on Twitter or 361 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 6: now X that are related to Tesla need to be 362 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 6: approved or at least vetted by a company lawyer, and 363 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 6: so he has been trying to get rid of this 364 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 6: Twitter sitter as it's called, and you know, saying that 365 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 6: this is an infringement on his free speech. He was 366 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 6: hoping that the Supreme Court would actually take up this 367 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 6: case and determine whether this was violation of his free speech. 368 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 6: But the Supreme Court said, no, we're not. You know, 369 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 6: we have other things going on that we should probably 370 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 6: be putting more attention to, so they sort of chose 371 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 6: not to take that case. But I mean, honestly, honestly, 372 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 6: I cannot believe that there is a lawyer who already 373 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 6: reviews his Tesla tweets and approves of them, because it 374 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 6: seems crazy that any of this stuff is vetted. Certainly, 375 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 6: everything that's unrelated to Tesla is clearly not vetted. And 376 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 6: even the Tesla stuff, as you guys can probably attest to, 377 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 6: sometimes seems quite borderline to me. So I'm not sure 378 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 6: how much this really matters. 379 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: So to back up for a minute, I mean, there 380 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: really was a Twitter sitter. We knew their name at 381 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: one point. It was in like a filing in between 382 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: like the sec and MUSC and his lawyers. But then 383 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: there's been so much turnover in Tesla's legal department that 384 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: I actually don't know who has the job right now. 385 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: But it's like the Designated Securities Council, like it has 386 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: like a name, And a lot of people were like, 387 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: you're just making this up. There is no Twitter sitter, 388 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: and I was like, no, no, there really is. 389 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 6: I guess I'm curious, Dana. You followed Elon as close 390 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 6: as anybody. Do you really think he's composing a tweet, 391 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 6: taking the time to email it over to some lawyer, 392 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 6: waiting for approval before posting it. I just have no 393 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 6: impossible time imagining. 394 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: How dare you suggest that when Elon Musk tweets a 395 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: picture of one dog placing its testicles on another dog, 396 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: that he is not vetting that with Tesla's compliance department. 397 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: Well, you don't know what was what was you know 398 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: what the original Yeah, that's true. 399 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 4: You're right. The compliance department might have been like, we 400 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 4: got to dial this one back. 401 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: I put a little disclaimer at the bottom and back 402 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,239 Speaker 3: on the right side of the line. Absolutely, you know, 403 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 3: bringing the conversation back to the actual company X for 404 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: a second. You know, Kurt, when he purchased the company, 405 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 3: he at the time was sort of fairly obsessed with 406 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 3: we Chat and the idea of an everything app. This 407 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 3: is actually what he said back then in an interview. 408 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 8: I mean, we don't even have a that that's as 409 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 8: good as we Chat in China, and like, in China, 410 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 8: you like live on we Chat. Basically everyone's like, like, 411 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 8: you live on we Chat, you do payments, you do everything. 412 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 5: It's like yep, it's great chats, kick ass. And we 413 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 5: don't have anything like we Chat outside of China. So 414 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 5: I was like, my idea would be, like, how about 415 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 5: if we just copy we Chat? 416 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 3: Hey, So Kurt his efforts to quote unquote copy weed Chat, 417 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: how's that going? 418 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 6: Well, this is the idea of the everything app that 419 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 6: Elon talks about a lot, and we haven't really seen 420 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 6: a lot of those ideas materialize. We've heard him talk 421 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 6: about the idea of banking, certainly, video and entertainment, this 422 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 6: idea of you know, using X to do shopping perhaps 423 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 6: or basically to run your life. They were teasing this 424 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 6: idea of video conferencing within X as well the other day, 425 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 6: so you know, maybe replaced zoom I think the biggest 426 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 6: issue is number one. As I mentioned, a lot of 427 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 6: these products are just sort of talked about, right, They're 428 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 6: just they're out in the ether, but they don't actually 429 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 6: exist at the moment. But I think the bigger issue is, uh, 430 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 6: you know, when you are focused on everything, as Elon 431 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 6: says he wants to do, you don't really do any 432 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 6: one thing particularly well, right, And I'm not sure that 433 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 6: anyone is at this stage looking for a single app 434 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 6: to do all of these things in their life. And 435 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 6: that's part of the reason that the everything app idea 436 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 6: has not taken off outside of China. Right, He's like, Hey, 437 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 6: we build this and succeeds in China, why don't we 438 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 6: just build this elsewhere. Well, they've tried to build this. 439 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 6: Mark Zuckerberg tried to do this at Facebook for several 440 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 6: years with Messenger and WhatsApp and found basically that in 441 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 6: the US in particular, people are used to having different 442 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 6: apps that specialize in different skills, and they want to 443 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 6: go to Uber to get their Uber ride, and they 444 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 6: want to use their banking app to get their bank. 445 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: I'm going to rapid fire hit you with a bunch 446 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: of the things that they've tried over these last two years, 447 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 3: and you're gonna just you know, give us your reaction 448 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: curt in terms of how they've gone. So I got 449 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: Twitter Blue Premium. 450 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 6: I think that's been a huge flop for the most part. 451 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 6: We don't know how many subscribers they have, but estimates 452 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 6: are I believe less than a million people are willing 453 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 6: to pay the eight dollars per month for this service. 454 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 6: I'd say this is where they've done the most change 455 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 6: to Twitter, Like, if you pay the eight dollars, you'd 456 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 6: probably get the biggest differentiated experience than you did from 457 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 6: Twitter one point zero. But I just don't think enough 458 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 6: people are paying for this for that to be considered 459 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 6: a huge success right now. 460 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 3: Not good, Not good, says Max Job search Board Kurt 461 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 3: Wagner Job Searches. 462 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 6: This is one thing that I think a lot of 463 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 6: people don't even realize exists on Twitter, which is that 464 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 6: if you are a business and you pay for like 465 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 6: a premium business account, you can then post your jobs 466 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 6: on there. I funny enough, even though I don't know 467 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 6: if a lot of people not exist. The company claims 468 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 6: this is doing incredibly well. Hundreds of thousands of job 469 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 6: postings and it sort of makes sense, right. I think 470 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 6: a lot of people do use Twitter in some type 471 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 6: of professional capacity, So maybe you would you come across 472 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 6: a job posting on Twitter versus say, you know, Instagram 473 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 6: or TikTok or something like that. But I don't think 474 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 6: it's necessarily something that like the average consumer of Twitter 475 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 6: or X. Now, excuse me, is really you know, clamoring. 476 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 3: For Kurt premium video premium video? 477 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 6: You may recall after cees in January, I think I 478 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 6: came on here. We talked about Don Lemon and Tulsa 479 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 6: Gabbard and Jim Rome and WWE and how you know, 480 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,479 Speaker 6: X was going to be the new place to go 481 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 6: basically watch like exclusive premium content that has not materialized yet. 482 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 6: We obviously know what happened with Don Lemon. That deal 483 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 6: fell apart before it ever got going. As far as 484 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 6: I know, Tulsa Gabbard and Jim Rome have not actually 485 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 6: posted any original videos to X. I actually reached out 486 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 6: to them last week just to make sure, and I 487 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 6: was told they would get back to me, and then 488 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 6: I never heard. But I haven't seen anything on their feeds. 489 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 6: So these deals that they've really promoted in January, I 490 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 6: don't know if anything exists. There are certainly nothing real mainstream. 491 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: To me, what I just keep noticing is that it 492 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: just seems like Musk is doing anything possible to boost 493 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: engagement and he's failing so spectacularly. Like yesterday, Taylor Swift 494 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: tweeted something out and then like Musk responded to Taylor 495 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: and then she ignored him, And it's like, oh, man, like, 496 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: are you just really trying to like goose those numbers? 497 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: And even some of his more like ridiculous kind of 498 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: you know, juvenile memes and stuff. It's like, I don't know, 499 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: I just feel I just would love to know what 500 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: the true engagement of numbers are. 501 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: All this is so bad, but I do feel like 502 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: we need to acknowledge some good things, one of which 503 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 2: is Kurt didn't mention Tucker Carlson. 504 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 4: And you know, there was a point when not to. 505 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: Just looking for the silver lining here, the Tucker shaped 506 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: lining to this cloud. But there was a point when 507 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 2: Elon took over Twitter and clearly started shifting to the 508 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: right where it wasn't clear that there even was a 509 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: market for a right wing social network. 510 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 4: And I think you have to say he's made one. 511 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: This is a more successful version of the company that 512 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump wanted to start with Truth Social that you know, 513 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 2: the rumble guys are trying to run. This is truly 514 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: a place where you know, in fluential conservative thought leaders 515 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: are hanging out. 516 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 3: It's a market. Maybe it's a viable market. Is it 517 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: a monetizable market in a meaningful way? 518 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 6: It is monetizable, yes, Is it in a meaningful way? 519 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 6: I'd probably say they've proven thus far that it's been 520 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 6: really hard. I don't think that the stuff that Elon 521 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 6: is tweeting about is necessarily the very friendly family friendly 522 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 6: certainly not ground that a lot of marketers want to 523 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 6: put their name attached to. And I think that's really 524 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 6: the biggest issue all. 525 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: Right now, Max, can I go back to my list 526 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 3: here please for a second. So also I got for 527 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: Kurt dating, the dating service app. What's going on? 528 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, So there's a handful of products I mentioned with 529 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 6: this everything app idea that we've heard him kind of 530 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 6: hint at talk about but that have not materialized. Dating 531 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 6: falls into that category. Wouldn't it be great to find 532 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 6: your next date on X Stay tuned, Perhaps you will someday. 533 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 6: As of right now, that does. 534 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 4: Not exist it's a horrifying prospect. 535 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 3: Okay, it's worth Kurt bank service and payments. I mean, 536 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 3: you want me to take my money out of Vanguard 537 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 3: and move it over to X. 538 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 6: What if I told you you could get a very 539 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 6: high yield on those savings that X's hole and that 540 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 6: was a pledge. Yeah, that's the pledge that Elon has 541 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 6: made a few times. Again, similar to dating, haven't seen 542 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 6: the product yet. This one is they have applied for 543 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 6: payments transfer licenses. Essentially, they have to go through all 544 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 6: fifty states to get permission to allow users to transfer 545 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 6: money through the app. They are in the process of 546 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 6: applying for these. I believe there's something like more than 547 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 6: a dozen states that have already been approved, but it 548 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 6: doesn't exist yet. His whole idea was, why don't you 549 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 6: simply keep your money with us. We'll give you a 550 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 6: great yield, you know, savings yield on that money, and 551 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 6: then you can use it to not only buy things 552 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 6: through ads you see on X, but. 553 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 3: To pay people. So, Danahll, are you ready to move 554 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: all your money onto X? 555 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I mean, I'm not giving Elon Musk any 556 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: access to my personal financial information, but I do want 557 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: to mention that like, if you think about Elon and 558 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: the early history of Elon, like this all comes back 559 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: to his PayPal days, which is like the sort of 560 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: Elon era that we all kind of forget about. But 561 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: when people are like, who is Elon Musk? Oh, yeah, 562 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: like he's the founder of Tesla, it's like, no, no, 563 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: he's not the founder of Tesla. But also like he 564 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: became a millionaire because of PayPal and PayPal being sold 565 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: to eBay, and like he's always been interested in payments, 566 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: Like that's like the original sin of like how this 567 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: guy became who he is. And so I do think 568 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: it is interesting that he's like kind of coming full 569 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: circle in terms of his original vision for what PayPal 570 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: could have been. 571 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 572 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but to be fair, he got fired from that 573 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: job for doing this exact thing. 574 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 4: I mean, he he was. 575 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: As it was, he was pushed up. But it was 576 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 3: a it was a power struggle, right, I mean. 577 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. 578 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: He he wanted to do an everything app called X 579 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: and the investors and Peter Teel, the co founder, disagreed, 580 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 2: wanted to focus on payments, and Elon Musk lost that 581 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: power struggle. Of course, here, although there are these debt 582 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 2: holders and so on. There are external shareholders of X. 583 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: You know, there's no you know, no one's challenging him 584 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: on any of this stuff. 585 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 3: So I guess, like, yeah, two years into X, it 586 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: looks like we're just getting confirmation that tel was right 587 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 3: back then. 588 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: I do think if you were a you know, X 589 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: dot com truther X dot com as the nineteen nineties version, 590 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: it's been a tough couple of years for you. It 591 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 2: really does look like, as you said, David, focusing on 592 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: a single product is probably better than kind of scattershot 593 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 2: launching dating sites and banks and highyield savings accounts. 594 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 4: I mean, are we going to talk about the one 595 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 4: thing that is going well at. 596 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 3: X, the high yield X savings account? Okay, so you 597 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: want to talk about GROC, tell us about. 598 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 4: Gro So Rock. 599 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: Last week there were news reports, including it at Bloomberg 600 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: that it's raising money at evaluation of eighteen billion dollars. Again, 601 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: you know, we don't know for sure, but I think 602 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: there's a pretty good chance that Groc is worth more 603 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: right now than X, and Grock, of course, is kind 604 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: of piggybacked, I should say X AI although it's not 605 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 2: technically part of X. It's very much piggybacking on X. 606 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: X is the main distribution platform. These two entities don't 607 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: really exist without the other. And when Kurt's excellent book 608 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 2: came out, you know, he was on this podcast and 609 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: we talked about you know what, you know, where the 610 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: value was, and Kurt suggested that maybe this is just 611 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 2: an AI play, And I think that looks pretty good 612 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: right now. 613 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 6: I'm never going to be told that I'm that I'm 614 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 6: right and disagree with you, Max, So that's great. I 615 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 6: do think like this idea of XAI being the true 616 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 6: value is totally valid. There's so much potential with these chatbots, 617 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 6: and we see companies like Meta investing billions and billions 618 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 6: of dollars into training these large language models to power 619 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 6: chatbots and things like that. So if you can take 620 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 6: X the social network and somehow tie it to x 621 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 6: AI and you know, groc or whatever else comes from that, 622 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 6: I think that is probably the best way for X 623 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 6: the social network to have a positive outcome financially here. 624 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 6: And it feels like that's what's happening there. They're clearly, 625 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 6: as Max pointed out, Grok is like X the social 626 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 6: network is the distribution ground. For Grock. It's the training 627 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 6: data for GROX. So I think what we're seeing here 628 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 6: is these two companies being tied together. Not sure exactly 629 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 6: what happens at the end of that, but you know, 630 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 6: it feels like that's where it's headed. 631 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 3: Enough about X and it's woes. It's time for another 632 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 3: feud of the week? Are you just making these feuds up? Max? 633 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 3: So these feuds are these figments of your imagination? Are 634 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 3: they're real? 635 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: No? 636 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 4: These are these are very real. This is as real 637 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 4: as the earth, the sky, the sun. 638 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 3: Ok, what do you got for us this week? 639 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 2: Dustin Moskovitz he is kind of a Silicon Valley powerbroker, 640 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: co founder of Facebook, kind of a more of like 641 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: a lesser co founder Facebook, very close friend of Mark Zuckerberg. 642 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: He runs a company called Asana, which is a sort 643 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: of productivity you know type. 644 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 4: Thing for businesses. 645 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 2: He is also a major donor to the Democratic Party 646 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 2: and a bit of a left wing activist, and he 647 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: over the last few months has every now and then 648 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: posted something critical about Elon on threads. Of course on threads, 649 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 2: and recently though he went way further. He called Tesla 650 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: basically Enron. He said, let's wake up to this. 651 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 4: This is Enron. They're a fraud essentially, That's what he said. 652 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: Yes, the grounds. You know, I spent some time reading 653 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: this very lengthy thread. He's a very verbose guy, a 654 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: little bit hard to unpack. But the basic contention is 655 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: that Tesla is improperly recognizing it's autopilot revenue. I think, 656 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: stepping back from that, Moskovitz is jumping on to a 657 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: common critique about Tesla, which is that autopilot is essentially 658 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 2: vapor where it doesn't actually drive the car for you. 659 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 2: It's you know, Elon Musk is overstating its capabilities. Elon 660 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: Musk responded in an extremely generous and fashion by posting 661 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: a meme in which Dustin Moskowitz was labeled on one 662 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: dog and another dog I think labeled Elon was performing 663 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 2: a lewd act on that dog. 664 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 7: Okay, okay, wow, Like I'm saying, I assume a Tesla 665 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 7: compliance officer looked at that and said, okay, this is legit. 666 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 3: This is legit. Again. You don't know what the initial 667 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: post looked like, right, I mean, I have no idea, right, 668 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 3: So the Twitter sitter said, yeah, this didn't Now now 669 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: that you've edited down scale, the back. This is this 670 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 3: is fine and legit, to which Dustin responded and said. 671 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: What continuing to he's continuing to criticize Elon Musk. 672 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 4: I mean the feud continues, So this is. 673 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 3: Okay, So this is this truly isn't a figment of 674 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 3: your imagination? Just sounds like a decent fud. 675 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: Look, I think that this, you know, it's it's very 676 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: tempting when somebody, especially on Threads, which you know, despite 677 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg's best efforts, does not have the kind of 678 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: like cultural capital even that X does. When somebody's just 679 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 2: like shooting, you know, random verbal assaults at Elon Musk, 680 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 2: it's's kind of tempting to ignore it. But Moskovitz is 681 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 2: a important guy. He is a major Democratic donor. He's 682 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 2: somebody with real juice in political circles. I mean, there 683 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,439 Speaker 2: are also reasons to doubt some things that he said. 684 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: He was a big you know, he's a big effective altuois. 685 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 2: People have tied him to Sam bankman Fried. Of course 686 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: he has said, you know, his brand of that is 687 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 2: totally different. But either way, like this is somebody that 688 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 2: like has access to the highest levels of the Democratic 689 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: Party and he is going around criticizing Elon Musk very loudly. 690 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 4: This is not a good situation for Elon Musk. 691 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 2: On the other hand, you don't want to overstate it 692 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 2: because like he's buddies with Mark Zuckerberg. 693 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 3: Is it this kind of like an extension of the 694 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 3: Zuckerberg feud? 695 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's kind of like a tag team 696 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: situation where you have a Yeah, you have Zuckerberg and 697 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 2: and Moscow's in one quarter Linda and Elon and the 698 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 2: other they're tagging it. 699 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 5: No. 700 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: No, that's a very good question if you do go 701 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 3: tag team and so it's Moscowtz and Zuckerberg tagging, and 702 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 3: I once who is who is Elon's tag team partner? 703 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 4: I feel like Danna needs to answer that question. 704 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: Oh wow, who's the guy said he was going to 705 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: jump on a grenade that. 706 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 4: Was it's his brother. 707 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 3: But it's why we should have came up. 708 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 4: You know who it should be though, it should be Walter. 709 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 4: That would be a colorful fight. 710 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 3: So Max, what I want you to work on this 711 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 3: next week before the next episode is like you know 712 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 3: what then, like, what are the costumes they wear in 713 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 3: the red You've got to work on for each time. 714 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 3: Kurt Wagner. Thank you for joining us. 715 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you, thank you. 716 00:35:51,360 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 3: Danna Mac pleasure to be here always. This episode was 717 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 3: produced by Stacey Wang. Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmantier are 718 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,919 Speaker 3: senior editors. The idea for this very show also came 719 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 3: from Rayhawk. Blake Maples handles engineering, and we get special 720 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our supervising producers Magnus Henrickson. 721 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 3: The Elon Inc. Theme is written and performed by Taka 722 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 723 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 3: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm 724 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 3: David Papadoppolis. If you have a minute, rate and review 725 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 3: our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you 726 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 3: next week.