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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Patty McCord and she was the chief

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Speaker 1: town officer in charge of things like HR and culture

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Speaker 1: at Netflix. And she is also the author of a

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Speaker 1: new book, Powerful Building a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility.

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Speaker 1: If you were all interested in what it was like

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Speaker 1: to be in Silicon Valley in the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 1: how Netflix came together, and why we are now in

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Speaker 1: the fifth era of Netflix from DVD to streaming, to

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Speaker 1: go down the list to original content to whatever the

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Speaker 1: next things they're working on. Uh, if you're curious as

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Speaker 1: to how companies recruit and the importance of corporate culture,

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Speaker 1: you will find this conversation fascinating. I found her to

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Speaker 1: be the lightful. She is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things taking place both in the world of corporate

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Speaker 1: um HR and within technology and startups. Rather than me

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Speaker 1: just babbled incessantly, let's jump right into it my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Netflix Patty McCord. My extra special guest today is

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Speaker 1: Patty McCord. She was the chief talent Officer at Netflix

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Speaker 1: for fourteen years. Her presentation on the subject of corporate

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Speaker 1: culture has been shared almost fifteen million times. No less

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Speaker 1: a star than Cheryl Sandberg called it the single most

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Speaker 1: important document to ever come out of Silicon Valley. She

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Speaker 1: is the author of a new book, Powerful, Building a

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Speaker 1: Culture of Freedom and Responsibility. Patty McCord, Welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. So I'm excited about this because

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Speaker 1: A I'm a big Netflix fan and B you wrote

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Speaker 1: a really interesting book about the concept of corporate culture

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Speaker 1: and how to implement it. Let's let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your background and how you ended up at Netflix.

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Speaker 1: In the late eighties, for four years, you ran the

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Speaker 1: corporate diversity program at Sun Microsystems. How did you end

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Speaker 1: up at Sun? A girl from Dallas? How does that happen? Hmm?

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Speaker 1: Let's see. I started out in tech as a recruiter.

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Speaker 1: So I started out in a company called Sgate and

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Speaker 1: I w hard drives. Yes, I recruited assemblers and then technicians,

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Speaker 1: and then engineers and then vice presidents and then I

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Speaker 1: ran staffing for them, and um and I did it

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Speaker 1: because uh, my husband then was an artist and I

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Speaker 1: was working with him and it was too boring for me.

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Speaker 1: I needed to be someplace social. So I said, I

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Speaker 1: just needed Mr Coffee. I just need to be with

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Speaker 1: other people in a Mr Coffee. So that's how I

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Speaker 1: I did the recruiting job, and so I got pretty

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Speaker 1: hooked on the technology. I really liked the people and

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Speaker 1: the things we were doing. I um, so from c

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Speaker 1: Gate to Son, how does that um? Because I interviewed

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Speaker 1: somebody for a position at H at c Gate and no,

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Speaker 1: this was later. Yeah, it was a c Gate and

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Speaker 1: she was from Son and I called to make her

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Speaker 1: a job offer, and she said, oh, I didn't like

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Speaker 1: you or your company or your team. But I know

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Speaker 1: I didn't like your company or your team, but I

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Speaker 1: really liked you, So why don't you quit and come

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Speaker 1: work for me here at Sun's Crazy? So she bugged

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Speaker 1: me for about two years and then it was who

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Speaker 1: would you work with its son? Was this the Scott

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Speaker 1: mcneelie ero or yeah? I said mcneeli ra. Yeah, mcnelie

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Speaker 1: who told me one time when I was presenting on

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Speaker 1: diversity to the executive staff. So the executive staff at

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Speaker 1: that time was Carol Bart's ed Xander Scott McNeely. You know, um,

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Speaker 1: Berrik Schmidt murderous. Yeah, and Scott told me one time. Now,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, Patty,

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Speaker 1: Mine was platinum. That's pretty fun. It was a different

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Speaker 1: era to say to say at least, So how do

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Speaker 1: you go from Sun to Netflix? Um? Let's see, I

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Speaker 1: went to Europe for Sun. I uh were in Europe.

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Speaker 1: I was in Scotland. We had a plant there in Scotland.

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Speaker 1: And I went because our theme dijure in HR at

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Speaker 1: that time was going global. And I came back and

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I'm global, and but we had

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Speaker 1: switched themes and now we were quote re engineering, and

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Speaker 1: I said, I remember saying, oh, you mean we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have layoffs, No, we're re engineering the workforce, you know, Barry.

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Speaker 1: I think that may have been the seed of my

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Speaker 1: hatred for HR speak. So so right sizing was the phrase.

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Speaker 1: I remember that so deplorable. Re engineering is such a

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Speaker 1: neutral sense, isn't that nice? You know? And it's so

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Speaker 1: geeky engineering. We're giving people new job descriptions. No, we're

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Speaker 1: firing that, we're gonna we're gonna call it re engineering

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Speaker 1: because we didn't do that. So um, then I took

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Speaker 1: a job at Borland, which was a software company that

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Speaker 1: was arrival to Microsoft Office at the time. Did they

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Speaker 1: ultimately end up buying word Perfect And I'm remembering that correctly,

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Speaker 1: but they had it was and then um Microsoft competed

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Speaker 1: by basically undercutting the product and price and wiped it

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Speaker 1: all out. But it was changed a p s. They

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Speaker 1: always did a lot of fun. Here's a fascinating thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. I'm a hr I'm not particularly I wasn't

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Speaker 1: particularly technical at the time I went to Borland. I

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Speaker 1: had a two eighties six standalone computer and I came

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Speaker 1: from sunwhere I had a spark station. Right I could

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Speaker 1: I could publish newspapers on my desk, and I asked

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Speaker 1: somebody to bring me something. I'm like, don't we have

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Speaker 1: this in soft copy? Can I get it off of

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Speaker 1: the quote net? And they said, I'll bring it to you.

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Speaker 1: And the person came to me and handed me a

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Speaker 1: floppy drive sneaker net a floppy drive, and I'm like, hey, thanks,

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Speaker 1: And I held up my hand like am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to do with this? I didn't know anything, but it

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Speaker 1: was um it was desktop applications. I could use the

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Speaker 1: product myself. Um, it was really cool. I worked a

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Speaker 1: lot with the spreadsheet group with Quadrupro and it was

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Speaker 1: still HR. So from HR and recruiting, how do you

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Speaker 1: make the transition to I'm all about culture, I'm all

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Speaker 1: about talents. How how does that take place? Well? I

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Speaker 1: think that when you recruit what you are all about

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Speaker 1: talent anyway, it's not just money, park stock options, No, No,

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Speaker 1: it's matchmaking right, It's about knowing what problem a team

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Speaker 1: is trying to solve, who are the right people to

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Speaker 1: do it, getting under their skin to understand what drives

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Speaker 1: people like that, particularly technical people. You know, they're wired

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Speaker 1: really differently, and I like different kinds of problems. I

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Speaker 1: was really curious about that. And then when I arted

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Speaker 1: recruiting like executives, then that was another insight into what's

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Speaker 1: leadership really like? What are people really about? So I

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Speaker 1: was at Borland and um one of my vps that

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Speaker 1: I worked with had taken a job at a small

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Speaker 1: startup and he took it because he really liked the

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Speaker 1: CEO there. And so I called him up one day

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Speaker 1: and said, Hey, how's it going. How's your HR person?

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Speaker 1: He said, Oh, the HR person is terrible. Getting rid

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Speaker 1: of them I'm like, how do you recruit? I said,

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Speaker 1: I said, great, why don't you hire me? And he

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Speaker 1: said to me, you told me if I recruited out

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Speaker 1: of Borland you'd break both my legs. I said, like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean me, and he said, lots of luck,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. The CEO's name is

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Speaker 1: Read Hastings. So I hung up the phone. Remember back

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Speaker 1: the day you could dial Star six nine and it

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Speaker 1: would call back. So I called back and Read sister,

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Speaker 1: who was the receptionist, answered the phone and I said,

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Speaker 1: may I speak with Mr Hastings? And she put me

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Speaker 1: through just like that, just like that. So I said,

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Speaker 1: you don't know me, but I'm going to be your

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Speaker 1: next HR person. And um, that's how I met Read

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Speaker 1: and I went in for an interview. And during the

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Speaker 1: interview he asked me about my HR philosophy. Now, remember

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Speaker 1: I'd been at SUN so I could speak fluent HR. Read.

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Speaker 1: I believe that it's imperative that each individual in the

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Speaker 1: organization are empowered to be engaged, and you know the

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Speaker 1: relationship between the corporate objectives in there. And he said

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Speaker 1: to me, what are you saying? Do you people even

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Speaker 1: speak English? How is this supposed to help me sell software,

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Speaker 1: and so I got in an argument with him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at the job interview, I'm like, well, you don't know me,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, well, you're not telling me anything. So

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Speaker 1: we have this big tip and I go home and

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Speaker 1: my husband then said how'd it go? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: he said, you got to grow up and be a

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Speaker 1: good girl. You are the breadwinner of this family. We

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Speaker 1: have three children. You got to start acting like a

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Speaker 1: normal person. So um, he hired me nothing intervening having

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Speaker 1: a tiff over corporate speed. So we came back. I

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Speaker 1: came back for a couple of interviews and I was

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Speaker 1: going to walk that. I walked that back and I

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Speaker 1: said I was sorry, and then I was going to

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Speaker 1: report to the CFO. And I joined six months before

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Speaker 1: the I p O. I joined at the cusp of

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Speaker 1: our international expansion. This was a job where I got

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Speaker 1: to be in charge of HR and it was a

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Speaker 1: tiny little startup and there was literally nothing. How many

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Speaker 1: how many people were there when they were about to

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Speaker 1: go IPM couple of hundred, maybe more than that, because

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Speaker 1: we had opened our European office. We grew that company

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Speaker 1: through merger and acquisition. Every time we acquired a company,

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Speaker 1: we doubled. So when I left, we were a couple

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Speaker 1: of thousand. We'd acquired four companies in five years. That

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Speaker 1: was Pure Software. Pure Atria was acquired by Rational was

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Speaker 1: acquired by IBM. But it's an important part of my

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Speaker 1: story because um Reid was the first time CEO. It

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Speaker 1: was my first time actually running a whole HR department,

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Speaker 1: and so I was very aware of policies and procedures,

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Speaker 1: and I would take if we acquired your company, I'd

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Speaker 1: take your handbook in our handbook and I'd smush them together,

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Speaker 1: and I try and have overall comprehensive policies that would

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Speaker 1: piss off the fewest people that I cut this off right.

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Speaker 1: Um anyway, So then the company we got acquired and

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Speaker 1: they did what any what we did whenever we acquired

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Speaker 1: a company, they wiped out all the upper manage who

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Speaker 1: acquired you, guys. Pure Atrio was acquired by a company

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Speaker 1: named Rational. Okay, so Rational acquired us Read and I

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the executives were gone. Um and

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Speaker 1: I started consulting then, and Read started investing in other

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Speaker 1: startups at the time, and Netflix was one. Oh, so

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Speaker 1: this is when you started with read what it wasn't Netflix?

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Speaker 1: What was the company? It was called Pure Atria or

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Speaker 1: Pure Software when I was first So when he went

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Speaker 1: off and invested in Netflix, how did he end up

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Speaker 1: as CEO? And how did he bring you along? He

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Speaker 1: was co founder and um, he was chairman of the

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Speaker 1: board for a year or so, um, maybe more. And

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Speaker 1: then he decided to go in and run the company

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Speaker 1: with the co founder Mark Grandolph at the time, and

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Speaker 1: the company was expanding, and so he called me up

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Speaker 1: to join them, and I said no because I thought

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Speaker 1: it was a really stupid idea. DVDs through the mail

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Speaker 1: hold that thought because I want I share your thoughts

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that. Let's talk a little about culture.

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Speaker 1: It's become such a huge issue in our society. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there is somewhat of a well documented culture problem

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Speaker 1: coming out of of Silicon Valley. Uber is probably, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the poster child. But we're seeing things at

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Speaker 1: adventure Capital, farms, at Google, it elsewhere where. There's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a bro mentality and not necessarily the

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Speaker 1: healthiest culture. How difficult is it to build a culture

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Speaker 1: for a big company. And if you have to step

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Speaker 1: into a mess like uber, how hard is it to

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Speaker 1: turn that supertanker around. Let's start with what I define

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Speaker 1: culture as. I'm very Margaret Meat about it. Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: the way you behave, It's the stories that you tell.

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Speaker 1: It's what you do when no one's looking. It's what

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Speaker 1: employees see management do and say. It has almost nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with what you write down. So the famous

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Speaker 1: Netflix culture deck, I didn't write. It was a collaborative

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Speaker 1: thing that we did to onboard people, and it took

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Speaker 1: us about ten years to create. So culture isn't something

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Speaker 1: you declare and then it's so it's right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: if you're in a large corporation and you're setting out

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Speaker 1: to empower people, but everyone has to ask five people

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Speaker 1: for permission to do anything, then talking about empowerment, it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, um, I know everybody wants to point

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Speaker 1: to the Silicon Valley as the you know, the birthplace

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Speaker 1: of bro Topia. And and actually Emily Chang, who's a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg reporter who wrote the book, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: fabulous book and I learned a ton and I lived it,

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Speaker 1: so her research was really good about it. But the

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Speaker 1: issues that are happening in the corporate world right now,

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Speaker 1: are happening all over the place. So I just got

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Speaker 1: an interview a couple of weeks ago by a reporter

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Speaker 1: you know, the people in Silicon Valley must be just

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Speaker 1: freaking out because of their employees going rogue and going

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Speaker 1: to the internet and complaining about sexual harassment. What are

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Speaker 1: you going to do about that's horrible thing that's happening

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Speaker 1: out there. And I said, well, first of all, going rogue,

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Speaker 1: you mean like using social media like we all do.

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Speaker 1: We don't really think about that is like a rogue

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Speaker 1: thing anymore. Yeah, I said, you know, it is a

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Speaker 1: problem that people in companies feel like nobody inside the

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Speaker 1: company has live thing to to them, and so in

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Speaker 1: order to get an audience they have to go to

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Speaker 1: a bunch of strangers on the internet. That's a serious

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Speaker 1: cultural problem, but going rogue isn't. And second of all,

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Speaker 1: I said to her, because you've never experienced any sort

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Speaker 1: of harassment as a female reporter in the UK, right

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Speaker 1: And she's you know, it's crickets On the other end

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Speaker 1: of the line, I'm like, this is a problem. It's

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Speaker 1: a real problem. There's actually a phrase called reporting while

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Speaker 1: female that so this this covers every single person woman

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Speaker 1: if you want to do the me too movement, and

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Speaker 1: every single business around the world, from from Maids to

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Speaker 1: Maven's right. So it's not an issue of the Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 1: The Silicon Valley, however, has a particular problem that's a

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Speaker 1: result of so many men in tech. So because of

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Speaker 1: the overwhelming you know, we talked earlier about how I

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Speaker 1: ran um, how I ran diversity at SUN in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: So oh, I actually started running affirmative action, which morphed

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Speaker 1: into diversity. So I knew the numbers. And when I

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Speaker 1: read Lean in ten years later, and I looked at

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Speaker 1: the numbers because I knew what they were right that

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Speaker 1: the because I did affirmative action reporting for the number

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Speaker 1: of females, the numbers were worse. So the number of

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Speaker 1: women in technology had declined. And it just and I

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Speaker 1: looked back and I realized, you know, back in the day,

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, we celebrated our diversity up one side

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Speaker 1: and down the other. I mean, my single day Mayo

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Speaker 1: party had ricocon. You know, I had the mariachi band.

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Speaker 1: It was amazing, and I didn't fix pay Huh. Right,

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Speaker 1: we could have fixed equal pay back then, and we didn't, right,

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Speaker 1: And so what would the pushback have been if you

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Speaker 1: had said at that time, by the way, we should

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Speaker 1: pay male and female engineers the exact same amount, and

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Speaker 1: this will allow us to recruit the best people across

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Speaker 1: the entire industry. Because that's not how we recruited, because

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Speaker 1: the actual, um, the actual fact of recruiting went like this,

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Speaker 1: tell me how much you make, we'll give more. We'll

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Speaker 1: give you more. Right, we'll give you whatever it takes

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Speaker 1: to hire you. And so those were the negotiations, and

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Speaker 1: that was what was perceived to be the negotiation. I

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Speaker 1: was just reading, um, my friend Jenna Rich just wrote

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Speaker 1: an article yesterday about she's a headhunter and Silicon Valley

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Speaker 1: has been around for a really long time, and she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you ask what the salary ranges for

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Speaker 1: a particular position, and it's between one and two hundred,

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Speaker 1: women will think one seventies a good offer, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll always argue for two hundred. Right. So some of

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Speaker 1: it is cultural, some of it is by us, some

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Speaker 1: of it is the types of positions that we're in.

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Speaker 1: And so now I just did an HR conference yesterday

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Speaker 1: and I stood up in front of them and I said,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's let's be clear. Which are the three

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Speaker 1: most female dominated departments in any company? Sales and are

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Speaker 1: getting HR and Finance. And I stand with my legs

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Speaker 1: apart in my hands on my side of the fists,

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Speaker 1: and I get all shrill, and I'm like, fix pay.

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Speaker 1: We own it, we own compensation. So like we are women,

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Speaker 1: we own our own compensation. So let's fix the systems

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Speaker 1: that keep it down. So so, in other words, the

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Speaker 1: women in the accounting department HR, these are the people

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Speaker 1: who helped determine what the internal pay structure of a

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Speaker 1: company is going to be yes, which is a lot

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Speaker 1: of what my company is about, my my company, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot of what my book is about.

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Speaker 1: What my book is about is re examining all the

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Speaker 1: institutions inside of a company and saying, if we had

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Speaker 1: to start over again, would we do it the same way? Right?

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Speaker 1: So that's the reason I wrote the book powerful, is

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Speaker 1: that I believe that we're actually harming ourselves by using

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Speaker 1: the same methodologies for managing people and managing compensation and

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Speaker 1: managing recruiting that we've been seeing since the sixties. I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: it goes back a long, long way. So when you

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Speaker 1: have a merit increased budget that once a year, at

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Speaker 1: the end of your annual performance review, we give you

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Speaker 1: a six and a half percent merit increased budget on

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Speaker 1: a bell curve distribution with ratings and rankings and salary

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Speaker 1: ranges and them and them and that, and you start

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Speaker 1: out underpaid. You'll never catch up, right, You'll never catch up.

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Speaker 1: We were just discussing the challenges in setting up a

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Speaker 1: corporate culture or helping to turn one around at a

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Speaker 1: Brotopia type shop like Uber. But let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about um about the corporate culture. And and there's

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Speaker 1: a quote from the book that I really like. A

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Speaker 1: great workplace is not espresso or lush benefits or sushi launches,

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Speaker 1: grand parties or nice nice offices. What is a great workplace?

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Speaker 1: And how does culture play into that question? I often

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Speaker 1: ask people when they ask me that, So I'll ask

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Speaker 1: you that if you think about the time you went

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Speaker 1: home from work and you spontaneously told your spouse or

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Speaker 1: your pet, oh my god, it was a great hit work. Today,

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Speaker 1: it's almost never that there were macadamia nuts in the

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Speaker 1: cookies or that Mohito was just right. Are really they

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Speaker 1: are really good? And you might say that, but when

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Speaker 1: it's really about work and it really comes from your soul,

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Speaker 1: it's usually because you did something hard with other really

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Speaker 1: smart people that you didn't think you could do. I

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Speaker 1: mean I and it worked out well, and well, I

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Speaker 1: spend a fair amount of time with Silicon Valley happy people. People.

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Speaker 1: What what are you in charge of? I'm in charge

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Speaker 1: of making employees happy. And I tell them, well, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's not a job. Okay, that's a that's a thing

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Speaker 1: to do, but it's not a job, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I used to tell my team when I worked at Netflix,

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Speaker 1: and I thought of myself as the CEO of the culture, right,

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Speaker 1: I would say to my HR team, Yes, we are

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Speaker 1: a service organization. It's not spelled s E r v

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Speaker 1: A n t S. And by the way, the people

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Speaker 1: we serve don't work here. We serve the people that

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Speaker 1: use our product. And so our job is to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we get out of the way or and

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Speaker 1: make sure that our teams are comprised at brilliant people

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Speaker 1: who can do the hard work of creating an amazing

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Speaker 1: service that keeps people coming back to Netflix. Netflix as

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Speaker 1: an example. And now that I work with you know,

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Speaker 1: I work a lot these days with pretty large corporations.

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Speaker 1: And when you get really large global corporations or hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of employees and you have internal departments like HR,

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Speaker 1: they get pretty divorced from the business sense. And so

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Speaker 1: that for me, that combination, that's the real critical way

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Speaker 1: to change things. So since we're talking wrapping that in

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Speaker 1: corporate culture, corporate culture is unique to every corporation because

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Speaker 1: every corporation serves a different customer. That's quite fascinating. So

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Speaker 1: as the HR department starts to grow on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the river from software developments in asset management,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be research, portfolios, financial planning, all that

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Speaker 1: stuff becomes completely separate from that. How do you bring

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Speaker 1: it back across the river. How do you get HR

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Speaker 1: to serve the customer by working with the other divisions? Well,

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Speaker 1: you make we're serving the customer and understanding the business

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Speaker 1: a core part of the knowledge of literally everyone that

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Speaker 1: works in a company. There is nobody in any company

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Speaker 1: that you should hire that doesn't have the capability of

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Speaker 1: understanding the basics of a profit and loss statement. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, I was just talking to somebody yesterday about

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Speaker 1: customer service and she was new in customer service, and

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Speaker 1: she said, you know what can I do to really

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Speaker 1: enhance this experience for people? And I said, Number one,

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Speaker 1: don't lie and tell them that this is the beginning

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Speaker 1: of their lifelong career at the corporation, because it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's usually a job that people are in for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years before they can't take it anymore. To

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Speaker 1: teach them how to read a p n L so

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Speaker 1: that they can know that if they have a customer

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Speaker 1: that hangs up and says, wow, that was a great experience,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell my friend to use this. That

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Speaker 1: is actually a direct line marketing contribution to the business,

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Speaker 1: straight to the bottom line, because that's a marketing marketing

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Speaker 1: dollars that you didn't spend because you acquired a cut

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Speaker 1: new customer for free. It's it's easier to keep customers

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Speaker 1: and it is to get new customers. It's it's hugely

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Speaker 1: fiscally responsible to do so right. And if I believed

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Speaker 1: as a customer service rep, my job wasn't to listen

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Speaker 1: to cranky people complaining all day, but my job was

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Speaker 1: to create an experience so that somebody would tell somebody

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Speaker 1: else to join for free, right that I was contributing

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Speaker 1: to the bottom line. Then I would learn more about

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Speaker 1: what it is that I do. Secondarily, I would learn

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Speaker 1: a skill that I and take with me for the

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Speaker 1: rest of my career. I could go into the next

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Speaker 1: company and not say, well, how many kinds of craft

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Speaker 1: beer do you have? But instead, do you have a

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Speaker 1: profitable business model? Right? And and most people don't. Really,

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Speaker 1: It's crazy to me. I don't think I understood that

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Speaker 1: until I was fifteen years into my work life. So

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Speaker 1: when did that that? That's really You're going right to

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Speaker 1: my next question. What led to the realization that, hey,

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Speaker 1: culture really matters? You know? I don't know that it

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Speaker 1: was birthed that way. There was no brand epiphany. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of little things. No, the story I

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Speaker 1: told you of when Read and I worked together in

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Speaker 1: that software company, when we it was a great company,

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Speaker 1: and we had a lot of great people, we made

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Speaker 1: a lot of great products, but it was a company

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Speaker 1: like every other company. And so when he asked me

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Speaker 1: to join Netflix, and I thought it was a dumb

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Speaker 1: idea and I didn't want to do it, and what.

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Speaker 1: What he did that compelled me was he said, let's

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Speaker 1: create the kind of company we want to work for. Like,

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Speaker 1: what if we're successful again but we love it, right,

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Speaker 1: what will we do? And I said, oh, okay, if

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Speaker 1: we did that, how would you know? And he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'd want to walk in the door every day and

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Speaker 1: solve these problems with these people. And then he asked

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Speaker 1: me how would you know? And I said it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: it be cool if we were a great company to

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Speaker 1: be from? Great to be from? Yeah? And it changed

428
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: everything for me, Like what if I could on your resume,

429
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're at Netflix? Were you there during DVD?

430
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: Were you there? What did you do? Because there would

431
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 1: be an assumption that you did something amazing, right, And

432
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: so the thing that we did differently there that didn't

433
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: seem crazy radical at the time and didn't seem like

434
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: a new wave of inventing culture was we just wrote

435
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: stuff down. So the famous Netflix culture deck was an

436
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: internal document for onboarding people. Uh, you said something war

437
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: that cracked me up that I just have to ask

438
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: you about. When I first heard about from my good

439
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: buddy Jeff Whitzman, who whose company got bought by Yahoo,

440
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: and he moved to Silicon Valley to Palo Alto in

441
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: the mid nineties and has been happily asconced in California

442
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: ever since. We were talking about this, and I'm like,

443
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: DVDs by mail? Who would ever want? You know, there's

444
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: a blockbuster on the corner. Why do I want to

445
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: get DVDs by mail when I'm living here in the city.

446
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: It sounds pretty silly. What was your response when Reid

447
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: first said to you, here's what the business model of

448
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: the company is. I thought it was ridiculous. And only,

449
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, he was the only There are three people

450
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: I knew that had DVD players, and they were all

451
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: geeks like him, right, And I had three kids and

452
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: a house full of VHS tapes. Right. It just there's

453
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: no way I was going to give up that space

454
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: on my bookshelf, right, you know, and for those silly

455
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: little things. And and I met him one time the

456
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: parking lot of an office Max early in the morning.

457
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: He had his kids in a stroller, and I said, um,

458
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: what are you doing? He goes taking the kids for

459
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: a walk and I said, what kind of father are

460
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: you going to office Max? He said, I bought a

461
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: postage meter. I'm mailing DVDs to myself and they don't break.

462
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: And that's how he told me the idea about Netflix. Really,

463
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: so that's how he tested it. He mailed it to him.

464
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was crazy. And so when I think

465
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: about my career at Netflix, um, I think I'm kind

466
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: of a serial entrepreneur. And so I was very lucky

467
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: because I got three separate companies when I was at Netflix.

468
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: The first one was on the DVD by mail business.

469
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: Could we come up with a business model that would

470
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: actually make money before we ran out? And that was

471
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: very touch and go. So what was the model that

472
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: you would send it to people? They could have one?

473
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: Our original model was late fees and duo days. It

474
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: was just block Best and if you kept it, you

475
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: would continue to hold it for a Yeah, it was.

476
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: And then then we did the subscription model that made

477
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: a little more. So that was the second kind of

478
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: we really were taking down Blockbuster. So that was my

479
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: second start. Hold the DVDs for as long as you want,

480
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: and when you send it back to us, we'll send

481
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: you the next DVD in your queue. I remember interviewing

482
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: somebody one time and she said, oh god, you know,

483
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: my daughter watches The Little Mermaid over and over again,

484
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: and I bet I've had that DVD for six months.

485
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: You probably won't want it back. No, you just bought

486
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: it for three times. I like, you know, keep it

487
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: as long as you want. It's we don't care. We

488
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: just want your daughter to be really happy. And I'm

489
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: thinking the same thing would have bought it seven what

490
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: was it, twelve dollars a month or and but you

491
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: know those are old old days. That's Netflix is twenty

492
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: years old, right, that's azing. So that was my second

493
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: startup was DVD by Mail. The third one was figuring

494
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: out the technology of digital streaming uh and that was

495
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: a very technical challenge that most people don't realize. Back

496
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: if if only the company had a person in charge

497
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: of HR with a lot of experience with engineers. Yeah,

498
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: So I left as the company morphed to be what

499
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: it is now, which is a global original content company.

500
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: That's the fourth business effect, which is the fourth business effect.

501
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: And knowing read they're up to something that's the fifth

502
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: business in the future, I just don't know it now

503
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: because I've been gone for so long. So you know, well,

504
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: I love to reminisce about the days at Netflix, because

505
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: they were wonderful. Um, what I want to talk about

506
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: now is about the innovative spirit that we had there

507
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: and the most important part of the culture. There was

508
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: this belief that if you put the right people in

509
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: the room with a really hard problem that mattered, and

510
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: you took away all the constraints and gave them focus

511
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: on a do date. This is one thing that startups

512
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: don't do very well. You know, their end game is

513
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: someday right instead of like like the end of the

514
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: year or at the end of the quarter, had some

515
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: hard deadline. And that's partly because engineers are very scheduled driven,

516
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: are very you know. It's interesting all the stuff that

517
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: I talked about I learned from them or from product managers.

518
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: You know why. Like I say to HR people now,

519
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: I said, look, let's take the annual performance review. What

520
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: is it? What do you do it? Is it a

521
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: feedback mechanism? Okay, let's say we do that to give

522
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: people feedback on their performance. Well, when you step back

523
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: and said, let's create a system to give people feedback

524
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: for their performance once a year, I mean, seriously, what

525
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: else do you do once a year that you're good

526
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: at that would be nothing, right, So, I mean it's

527
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 1: just a bad it's a bad system for doing that.

528
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: So if you're an innovative engineer, you would say, well,

529
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: that's dump throw that away. Let's start with the end

530
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: game and work backwards and test a couple of things

531
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: so we can figure out the system that really does

532
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: do that. Right, What a cool idea? Right? If you

533
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: say it's a system to fairly compensate people, and you're

534
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: in a very dynamic work environment where compensation moves pretty

535
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: rapidly constantly for different positions, why would you do that

536
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: once a year by looking at survey that looked at

537
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: companies that were similar to you kind of last year, right,

538
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: I mean, so I I'm okay if you choose to

539
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: do what you've always done. So this is sort of

540
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: my message by my revolution. I want to start right now,

541
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: which is choose it. So what was the the either

542
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: the pushback or the feedback from read when you start

543
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: throwing away hey, views are cherished in long held corporate philosophy.

544
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no, no, no no no no. The

545
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: pushback was completely the opposite. Just no, no, no, it

546
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: was read he's the innovator. Oh really? Yeah? No, it

547
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: was Reid who would say, how can we have to

548
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: how can we have to have paid time off? And

549
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, the hr v P I was a real

550
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: hr verse off. So so for example, we when we

551
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: went public, we had to come up with a new

552
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: scheme for paid time off and was that a legal

553
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: requirement or just have it? You know we had at

554
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: the time we were paying people you accrued to day

555
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: a month and it was an honor system. And when

556
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: you left the company, we trewed up. But the auditors

557
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: didn't like it because we were technically paying everybody thirteen

558
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: months a year. It was all falling to the bottom

559
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: line because you don't true up until you leave the company.

560
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: The socks guys didn't like it because because it wasn't

561
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: like it what everybody else was doing. And then UM

562
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: and I and I didn't want to write down here's

563
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: your ten holidays and here's your tin vacation days, and

564
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: here's your six six days in my office. We called

565
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: that big boy rules. Yes, so you get work to

566
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: do and if you need to take time, well, so

567
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: I didn't want to write a policy that said that

568
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: and yet tell the engineers I'm just kidding. I don't

569
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: really care what you do, because because engineers will look

570
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: at that and go typical, HR, I sexually harass somebody

571
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: and you're gonna fire me. But the time off policy,

572
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: you don't really care, right, So easy policy or it's inconsistent,

573
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: it's not a policy. So I say that to Read.

574
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what I think the engineers are

575
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: going to think, and Read as an engineer says, oh yeah, hey,

576
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: by the way, do you have to have paid time off?

577
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: And the HR VP and ME says, of course you do.

578
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: Everybody's got paid time off, right, So then the hanging

579
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: out with Read Forever VP and me says, you mean legally.

580
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: So I go and google it, and I do some

581
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: research and I can't find any statute that requires paid

582
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: time off for its salaried employees in California. So anyway

583
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: we get rid of it, right. But where where I

584
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: become the CEO is where Read comes up with these

585
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: crazy ideas, Well, maybe we don't even have to have it,

586
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: Maybe we don't even have should we even have a

587
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: travel policy? Should we have expense approvals from finance? And

588
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: I start thinking, well, if we really have hired adults

589
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: who are really smart and really capable and really responsible,

590
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: then you do we really need to do that. But

591
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: I also have to operationally go back and say, well,

592
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: if there's no one in finance that approves the expenditures,

593
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: I still need to know what you're spending. So then

594
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: I got yes. And then you in bed a finance

595
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: person in every organization who says, hey, by the way,

596
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: you budgeted for individual expenditures at ten tho dollars. A

597
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: person in your run rates eleven. So how are we

598
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: going to think about that in terms of the budget

599
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: Which is the real question to ask, not that I

600
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: went to finance and they said no, right, it's what

601
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: do we actually spending? What do we actually and and

602
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: it's that um, it's that product, like look at everything

603
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: that you do. Right, So what's the purpose? What's the

604
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: purpose of the travel policy? Right? Is it to save money?

605
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: Then say hey, by the way, here's your travel expenditure maximum. Right?

606
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: Is it to be efficient? Then you have to think

607
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: about who's traveling for what and what right? And if

608
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: you think about that in terms of what's the right

609
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: thing for the company. See, now I'm teaching people it's

610
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: not about you, it's about us. It's about the p

611
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: m l it's about the customer, it's about the company.

612
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: What's the right thing to do in this and that

613
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: adds up to a corporate culture. It does right, And

614
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: so we wrote down as we started to do these things,

615
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: here's what. So for example, if you look in the

616
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: old culture deck, it says there's five words you act

617
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: in the company's best interest. Now, the whole system around

618
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: that means you have to hire people who do right.

619
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: You have to have people be responsible when they don't.

620
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: There have to be consequences right, good and bad for

621
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: when people act the culture. So the question you asked

622
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: me was how did I come up with that? I didn't.

623
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: We did it collaboratively over many, many years, and the

624
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: thing that was different was we wrote it down. That's

625
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: that's just fascinating. We have been speaking with Patty McCord.

626
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: She is the former chief talent officer at Netflix. She

627
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: is also the author of Powerful Building a Culture of

628
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: Freedom and Responsibility. Be sure and check out our podcast extras,

629
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: where we keep the tape rolling and continue to discuss

630
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: all things corporate culture. We love your comments, feedback and

631
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg

632
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: dot net. Be sure and check out my daily column

633
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg View dot com. You can follow me on

634
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: Twitter at rid Halts. I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to

635
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast.

636
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: Thank you Patty for doing this. I'm really enjoying the conversation.

637
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: And before we get to our standard favorite questions, there's

638
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: still a bunch of things I have to ask you

639
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: that I didn't get to. Um. First, you were right

640
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: in the heart of Silicon Valley in the late eighties

641
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: and throughout the nineties. What was that period of time

642
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: like how to be man? It wasn't I mean, it

643
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: was just something new and exciting every day. There were

644
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: you know, there's an energy in the Silicon Valley that

645
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: anything is possible. Really yeah that uh, I think partly

646
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: because of the whole stand Stanford, you know, young entrepreneur thing.

647
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: You know, much has been said about the maligned millennials term.

648
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: I really hate um, you know because when you're in

649
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: your twenties, you were a millennial. I was millennial. It

650
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: was a while back when we were millennials. We work

651
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: but but but yeah, but here's what we had. This's

652
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: the same. What do you want when you're twenty something everything,

653
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: when do you want it now? Right? And there's some

654
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: of that energy that's always been in the Silicon Valley,

655
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: which is it should be better, and we should be

656
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: able to make it better, and so let's just go

657
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: do it. You know, when I consult with startups, I

658
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: tell them, look, here's the three types of employees you

659
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: want in a very early stage startup. You want the

660
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: smartest people you can hire for whatever you can afford

661
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: to pay them. You want them to work really hard

662
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: because when you solve early stage problems, they're problems of difficulty,

663
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: and the way you solve them is you just pound

664
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: at it. You know, not that. You know, your white

665
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: boards are full of lists of like, not that, not that,

666
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: not the value, do it? Screw it up because you're

667
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: making off up. If there was, if it was a smart,

668
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: reasonable idea, somebody else would already be doing it. So

669
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: all startup ideas are stupid. So when people say that's

670
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: a dumb idea, it's like, of course it is. It's

671
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: a startup. And the third thing you want is you

672
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: want people to believe, right, and those beliefs in those

673
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: early companies are not rational, right, and so it's like, well,

674
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: I think because you're gonna believe you have to beat theage,

675
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: you can believe you're gonna do something no one has

676
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: done before, and that all the stars aligned and there's

677
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: a giant cash yeah right, and and it's all everybody's

678
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: gonna be a millionaire on the day of the I

679
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: p O. I mean, so all the myths that go

680
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: with it. But you actually don't want experience people in

681
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: those early days very often because they'll say, no, we've

682
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: tried that, it doesn't work. Now. As soon as you're

683
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: at the point where you actually have something and you

684
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: actually have a customer and you might actually have a

685
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: business and there's actually a light at the end of

686
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: the tunnel, then almost instantaneously those are the wrong people

687
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: because now you say, okay, how do we take this

688
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: to a level of scale and complexity. And in the

689
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: early stage, people go work hard without food or water

690
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: maybe beer, right, not sustainable? Not well, and so you

691
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 1: have to say, well, or we could plan it um.

692
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: So that's where you know, I try and help people

693
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: through those step functional changes in their organizations. Is that

694
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: is that why we so often see the founders not

695
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 1: succeeding as CEOs. It is why we sometimes see that happen.

696
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen it all, Like a lot of

697
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: the myths that we have, I've seen busted. Right, could

698
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: can co founders continue to run a company that's never

699
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: gonna happen. It's never gonna happen forever. Um. I work

700
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: with Warby Parker, their co founders still run the company.

701
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 1: The well read Hastings, Google, go down the list of people,

702
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: well they're founders, but but I mean co founders. Right

703
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: in my day, there was only gonna be one Larry Ellison,

704
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: There's only one Bill Gates, There's only one read as things.

705
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: You know, there's only one at the top. But we

706
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: see now a number of co founding organizations that exist

707
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: with co founders for a long time, like two at

708
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: the top for example, and that work. That can work out. Yeah,

709
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: So I think that what I want to talk about

710
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: now is the innovative nature of Silicon Valley. We can

711
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: all pick up in terms of how we operate in business.

712
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: So when I go consult with or talk to Bank

713
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: of America or Fidelity or some very large organization, now

714
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: they want to know, Okay, now how do I undo

715
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: this albatross. You know that we've created that's very efficient.

716
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: It is a huge scale and has no ability to

717
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: be nimble. And all of these little fintech companies are

718
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: nibbling at my ankles and they move so much faster,

719
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: faster than more innovative, the creative, and they could address

720
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: problems you're not even aware of. So I have to

721
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: tell you a story. It's an interesting way. I'm consulting

722
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: to one of these large institutions and somebody says, well, um,

723
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: how do you feel about remote working? And I said,

724
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: that's an odd question to ask me in uh And

725
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: I said what do you mean by that? And he said, well, um,

726
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: here at our bank, in this particular city, we still

727
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: require people to come in at nine and leave at five.

728
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: They have to they have show up for work. And

729
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: I said, do they have to bring their own tools?

730
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: To what I said to it? I said, do you

731
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: take away their cell phones that they walk out of

732
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: the door at five? Yeah, exactly. And it made me think,

733
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of the answers to your question. Later,

734
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: I made me think, why did we have to use

735
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: to show up to work? Because our equipment was there right,

736
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: and and the and the thing I hold in my

737
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: hand now, I used to have to ask a burly

738
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: guy to help me get out from under my desk, right,

739
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: so you know what I said to him, Like we

740
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: all work remotely now, I mean there are issues of

741
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: supervision and control and company however you could I'm not

742
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: a big fan of any of those. But even if

743
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: you're mandated to do that, the technology exists, whether the

744
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: person is down the hole or on the other side

745
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: of the country, you still you could still monitor email

746
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: with whatever software you need to. You could still make

747
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: sure they have all the tools that everybody in the

748
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: room has. The the the idea of you have to come

749
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: into the office at nine, and you we prefer you

750
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: stay at least till five. That seems almost you know.

751
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: I have been in situations in innovative companies in the

752
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley where I think it's really important to be

753
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: at work. And here's when I think it's really important

754
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: to be at work, when you're collaborating and inventing stuff.

755
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: When you need to walk up to somebody and go,

756
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: you know, I got this idea, I just need to

757
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: run it by you. It's funny. I said it in

758
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: Netflix at one point The only perk I want to

759
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: have is showers, because you know how like you say, um,

760
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: I had this idea the shower this morning. But well,

761
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: if we get stuck in the meetings, like everybody in

762
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: the shower don't come out. You have an idea, right,

763
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 1: But my wife makes fun of me because I will

764
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: rehearse presentations in the shower, not just goes to the acoustics.

765
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: It's just a great place to free. So so back

766
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: to remote you know, so, I think, um, a lot

767
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: of planning and execution happens at work. A lot of

768
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: innovation happens when you're you know, on the beach space

769
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: bust in space, or in the shower or whatever. So

770
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: I don't think that having I don't think technology tethers

771
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: us like all the things that you just said. I

772
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: think it frees us to be able to participate in

773
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: work kind of on our own schedule. And so the

774
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: idea when you said about command and control and compliance

775
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: and so I'm not sure that those things are necessarily

776
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: part of a healthy work environment at any size at

777
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: this point. Well, if you're a regulated entity, you have

778
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 1: to check those you do, but but like you said,

779
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: you don't have to check those boxes by walking around

780
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: with a clipboard. And so that's my whole point. You know,

781
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: we should use the tools and the technology we have

782
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: to innovate the way we work, just like we innovate

783
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: the products that we use. When you think about when

784
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: you think about how I'm looking for the exact word,

785
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: when you think about how popular and attractive urban spaces

786
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: have remained or become what you described, having all that

787
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: intellectual capital in one space, having people in the same

788
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: room collaborating, innovating and venting, just just brainstorming. That's challenging

789
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: to do remotely. You need to be face to face

790
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: for that. Ideally. I'm not saying you can't do it

791
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: other ways. But when everybody's in the same room it's

792
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: just for three hours, it's different. If it's a different experience,

793
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: it's true. But you know, I UM, I wrote my

794
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: book collaboratively with the team people that I put together

795
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: all over the u S. We've literally never been in

796
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: the room together UM and they very much feel like

797
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: my team, UH and I know them really well. And

798
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: so I think technology changes out a lot. Let's look

799
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: at the technology of UM skyping and you know remote

800
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: screen screen sharing. I mean that's changed. So I'm a recruiter.

801
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: I go back a long, long way, right, And phone

802
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: screening used to be something that I was really good

803
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: at because I listened a lot for nuances of voice.

804
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, screen sharing changes everything. Seeing somebody's

805
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: body language, having those conversations. You and I are talking about,

806
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: how much more fun this is because we're in the

807
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: same room together. But the closer you can get to that,

808
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: the more I think you can still extend those collaborative

809
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: conversations without having to physically be there. That that makes

810
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: perfect sense. So I have one more Netflix question. You

811
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: were there for fourteen years. What led to the decision

812
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: to EDG? Is it? Was it mutual? Was it your decision?

813
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: How did it come about? Everybody loves the breakup story?

814
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: Down what happened. We've been together for a really long

815
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: time and the company was morphing, and so as the

816
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: company morphed into UM, you know, a original Programming Global,

817
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: it was a good time to leave. And we had

818
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: just come out of the Quickxter scenario that that whole

819
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: disaster of UM splitting the company from the DVD by

820
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: mail business, and and so we're both kind of ready

821
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: to say, let's move on, let's do something different. So

822
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, I was sad that I left because I've

823
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 1: been there for a really long time, but I also

824
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: was like super grateful that I've been there long enough

825
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: to see what I had seen. And you had a

826
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: big pile of stock options, pile of stock options. And

827
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: I've been saying forever, forever and ever and ever be

828
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: a great place to be from and clearly sitting here

829
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: in front of you, that turned out to be really true. Right.

830
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: That sounds great. It's um, it's kind of fascinating watching

831
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: the company grow and they have the ability it seems

832
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: to be as disruptive as Apple or Amazon has been. Uh,

833
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: stop and think about the current generation of millennials. They

834
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: could care less about having a cable let me, let

835
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: me push back. They have already it's over. Oh you know,

836
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm not in Reed's head anymore. But I'm telling you

837
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,959
Speaker 1: world domination is so yesterday. Well I'm talking, you're talking.

838
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: So it's really just where this specific We've been talking

839
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: about what Netflix is doing, not with the technical tactical details,

840
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: but that if you build a business from the perspective

841
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: of the customer, don't we all want to be able

842
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 1: to watch whatever we want to watch, whenever we want

843
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: to watch, personalized to us anywhere in the world. Yeah,

844
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: of course, I think it's kind of done and done.

845
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: It's if it's not fully realized the overall trends. Certainly

846
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: we're we're not debating if we're debating. When I would

847
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: argue we're close there, it's not quite a hundred because

848
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: every time I go so I'm a fan of the

849
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: expanse and I open fire up my Amazon firestick and

850
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: I have to say, was that was that an Amazon Prime?

851
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: Is that Netflix? So there's so many choices you have

852
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: to you have to and now Apple is throwing billions

853
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: of dollars at it. There's gonna be a run of

854
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: there is no like flick on the TV. I certainly

855
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: hear you, and I know and I know that will

856
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: get better because Amazon Prime and Netflix are tech companies

857
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: at their heart. They all stink it organizing the material,

858
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: and that goes for across the board. I'm going to

859
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: argue with you because I just can argue I just

860
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: walked out of my hotel room this morning, so flip

861
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: to the channel guide on your hotel. It's better than well,

862
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 1: first of all, it's an unfamiliar set of channels at

863
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: home if you still have cable of satellite and you

864
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: flip to the guide, Well, I know exactly where my

865
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: favorite things are. I know where HBO is, I know

866
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: where the Science Sci Fi channel is. I know what

867
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: BBC America is. Those are my three go two's, and

868
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: there are a bunch of others. Um but I also

869
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: know I don't know where Showtime is, but I assume

870
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: it's near HBO, so I could go find it. These

871
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: are really good questions. I'm gonna have to call it

872
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: my geeks and see what's up. So because you know

873
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: they're working on it, so you know that that's obvious

874
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: to Ever, when I go to either UM Apple TV

875
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: or Amazon Prime or even Netflix, Netflix gives me a

876
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: run of stuff and it. Now here's the other issue,

877
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: and this, I think is is our problem because neither

878
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: you nor I or millennials. I suspect, although I've asked

879
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: millennials and they don't they don't agree with this. I

880
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: suspect it's geared towards millennials. And they look at me

881
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: and say, well, who cares what you want to see?

882
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: We're putting your favorite list here, and then Netflix originals here,

883
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: and then there's a bunch of other things. And that's

884
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: the order that these kids want it, and they're a

885
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: future I just find there's such a fire hose of

886
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: amazing stuff and try and not. Like, my issue isn't

887
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: how do I find something I want to watch? There's

888
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: a million things I want to watch. I know what

889
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: I want to watch. How do I go find that?

890
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: Like Jack Ryan is coming in August. I know that's

891
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: going to be an interesting show. I don't need to

892
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: see that every time I log on. I've already made

893
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: a note of it. It's already in my favorites list.

894
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: In August, they'll see it. But why is that the

895
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: second tile bunky? I'm not there anymore. I don't really know.

896
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: But but but is that user interface is the next challenge?

897
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: I will tell you that I am absolutely one sure

898
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: that there are people all over the world working on

899
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: this particular issue. And where where I saw the trend line,

900
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: which I think is happening all over technology right now,

901
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: is that what's been driving most of the solutions to

902
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is not our our age, whether

903
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: we're millennials or boomers or what our habits are because

904
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: we remember, innovators don't start with what the problem is now?

905
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: They start with what's the solution going to be for everyone?

906
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: All right? So it has heretofore been personalization. It's that's

907
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: the magic thing. Can I use the data to give

908
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: you stuff? Can I intuit what you're gonna want? And

909
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: so now we're in the middle of the why is

910
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: that a good thing or not? You know debate that

911
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: was certain to happen when big data began to touch

912
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: every single one of our lives. Right this is the

913
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: whole Facebook scenario right now, and the Russian meddling and

914
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: all that, you know, So personalization is it until somebody

915
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 1: else gets to decide what's personal to you? So I mean,

916
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: I think that's a really interesting technical um new frontier

917
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: for us right now. And uh and since I'm not

918
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: inside a company that's doing that, I can't tell you

919
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: what's happening, but I can tell you that knowing knowing

920
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: these people the way I know them, this is somebody's

921
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: full time. Can't go to sleep at night without thinking

922
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: about what's the solution to this issue? What I miss

923
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 1: about the DVD era of Netflix? Oh you're getting nostalgic

924
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: old school, But it's not. It's It's was the ability

925
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: to go to the website and organize my list, right,

926
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: But now I want to be able to do the

927
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: same thing for my Netflix screen. So that Why are

928
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: you showing me this run of documentaries, none of which

929
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: I like? Why is that even here? What I have

930
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: to scroll through a thousand You're not there. Listen, I'm

931
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: not not asking you to solve this from me, Patty.

932
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm just identifying somebody's built an app to do it. Um,

933
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: Now do I need an app between me and Netflix

934
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: on my television? The way you're going to think about

935
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: how you use all of these devices in the future

936
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: is going to be a bumpy road as we start

937
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: to solve some of these problems like they always have been.

938
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: Like for example, when I was there, okay, when I

939
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: was there, I was there when the first ability to

940
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: remember when the back and you want to go back

941
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: on the day, back in the day streaming was it

942
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: was it was downloading, and it was downloading into a

943
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: tiny little app on your on your screen on your

944
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: PC that didn't have very good sound. It was kind

945
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: of choppy. So I I was at Netflix from the

946
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: we invented the interface on your laptop tow porting to

947
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: every technology known to human kind. I remember interviewing somebody

948
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: from Motorola at one point who kept messing with this

949
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: flip phone during the interview, and I said, will you

950
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: put that thing down? I'm trying to talk to you

951
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: because you know we're gonna be watching video on our

952
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: phone someday. And I said, right, that's just not going

953
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: to happen. He's like, yes, it is. It is absolutely

954
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 1: gonna happen. You're going to do it, and you're gonna

955
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: commercial from and I and I sounded just like you.

956
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: That's not the way I want it. I have never

957
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: gotten an animal I want, and so I don't care.

958
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: So I because I lived my whole career there in

959
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. You think it will happen. I know it will.

960
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: I know every you know to go from not buffering

961
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: to streaming, like to push the button and have it

962
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: play instantaneously. That inside our company was probably a four

963
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: year effort. It's harder than I remember when the news

964
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: reports would come out and say, of Internet traffic from

965
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: eight till midnight is Netflix or some insane I don't

966
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: remember what it was. I write in the book about

967
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: how we realize we're going to be third of the

968
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: US Internet band, which we all just stopped and shocked,

969
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: but now you know. But but the Silicon Valley also

970
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: has this thing called Moore's law, UM, and so which

971
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: we theoretically are coming up on the end of which

972
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: theoretically and but engineers believe in as a religion, which is,

973
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: don't worry it'll show up right, It'll get solved because

974
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: somebody and I guess that's um. That's a really important

975
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: part of the message I'm trying to send, which is,

976
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: for every person, there's some problem that's really compelling, and

977
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: somewhere there's a company that needs someone to solve that

978
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: really compelling problem, you know, and that matching happens over

979
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: the course of your entire career, and that no company

980
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: continues to give you that compelling problem forever, nor did

981
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: they owe it to you. So that dance between learning

982
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: what you love to do that you're great at doing,

983
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: and finding the place that really needs someone who loves

984
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: to do and are great at doing that. That's the

985
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: dance of living. Are are living our careers for the

986
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: rest of our life. You are describing the current season

987
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley. I don't know if you watch Oh God, yeah,

988
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: I love it. But it's that whole idea of here's

989
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: the problem we're trying to solve. People want to participate.

990
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: You watch the show, you enjoy How how much of

991
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: a parody gets really close? It's really close. I mean,

992
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: I don't like the stereotypes, but I know every one

993
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: of those guys. They they've claimed that there is no

994
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: one individual, that it's all a composite so as to

995
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: not make any one person by type they are. There

996
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: is always those types. But but you said something really important. Um,

997
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: that's what's the essence of my book is too, which

998
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: is own your career. You know, don't wait for somebody

999
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: else to tell you what to do. Don't be a victim, um,

1000
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,439
Speaker 1: be proactive about doing great stuff that's going to satisfy you,

1001
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: because otherwise you're gonna end up to be a victim

1002
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: and not and be disappointed. And on the other side

1003
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: of things, my message to corporations is stop lying to

1004
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: people and telling them your your family and that we're

1005
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: going to take care of you and will always be fair,

1006
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: because right now that's simply not true. It hasn't been

1007
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: for a nor has it been for a long time.

1008
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: So I think that we can be grown ups and

1009
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: have these kind of conversations for twenty or thirty years,

1010
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: which or forty however long we're going to work. So

1011
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: let me get to my favorite questions is are what

1012
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: I ask all of my guests. I'm curious to see

1013
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: how some of your answers go. U tell us the

1014
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: most important thing that people don't know about your background.

1015
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: I was going to be a teacher. I was passionately

1016
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: going to be a bilingual elementary school teacher. Why did

1017
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: that not happen? You know, it didn't happen because I

1018
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: got uh. I was a reader in antitrust litigation when

1019
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: I was in college, in my student teaching year, and

1020
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: they offered me a job at like three times what

1021
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: a salary what a tenured teacher would make, and I

1022
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: took it. And all these years I felt really guilty

1023
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: because I had given up my dream. And I was

1024
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: at this executive off site one time. All men, right,

1025
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: we're up in Sonoma and we're writing down you know,

1026
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: what would you tell your twenty year old self for

1027
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, one of those things? And I'm writing about

1028
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: how like I gave up my dream and I realized.

1029
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: I looked around me, I was like, wait a minute,

1030
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: I speak fluent engineering. They're taller than I expected, and

1031
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: they're all men. But I am a bilingual teacher. That's right,

1032
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: English and engineer. Yeah, I ended up doing it anyway,

1033
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: Who knew? Tell us about some of your early mentors

1034
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: who guided your career when you were just getting into

1035
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: hr UM. I was thinking this morning about a woman

1036
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: named Nancy Haggey, who is the woman I told you

1037
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: the story about his son who hired me. And the

1038
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: first one on one I had with her, I had

1039
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: my you know, my pen and my little pad of

1040
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: paper to take notes, and she said, now write this

1041
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: down very carefully. I have something very important to tell you. Poised,

1042
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: She said, I'm your safety net fall. That's very nice,

1043
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: very nice, And at the time I was really worried about,

1044
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, doing the right thing and following the right

1045
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: career path. And so that early advice really stuck with

1046
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: me forever. Who who else influenced your approach to hr

1047
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: and the development of culture? Oh, it's totally read. My

1048
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: working with Read Hastings was the most incredible innovative part

1049
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: of my whole career. And I mean, it's it's because

1050
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: it's not that I rolled off the turn up truck

1051
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: and met Read and everything was wonderful. Our collaboration was

1052
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: really really fruitful for both of us. Um, there are

1053
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: members of my family who always say, you know, you're

1054
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: awfully lucky you met Read, And I often say, you know,

1055
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: he's awfully lucky he met me. And if we hadn't

1056
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: both had the lives that we had before we came together.

1057
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: But but at the point where you know, when you

1058
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: start throwing things away and all bets are off, then

1059
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: it gives you the confidence to just keep going. I mean,

1060
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: and in my field, like what if you try something

1061
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: it turns out to be the dumbest idea you ever had. Well, no, biggie,

1062
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: you just go do what everybody else is doing and

1063
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: call it best practices. That that is such a dangerous phrase. Uh.

1064
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: Tell us about some of your favorite books, be they fiction,

1065
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: non fiction, h R related or not. Well. I just

1066
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 1: finished bro Topia Emily Chang Bloomberg Reporters book. I love

1067
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: it a lot because she really researched a life that

1068
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: I lead. I can imagine. First of all, she's very,

1069
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: very good at what she does. But she's also this

1070
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: very cute woman in the middle of San Francisco. I

1071
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: can't imagine what sort of nonsense she deals with out there,

1072
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: A lot, I would guess, enough to write a book

1073
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: about a lot of nonsense. So I I love Emily's book. Um,

1074
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: I was thinking of the books I loved lean In,

1075
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: Um I love I loved Gloria Steinham's biography. Right, got

1076
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: a trend here? My daughter, my twenty seven thing. Daughter says, oh, well, mom,

1077
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: you know you're a two point oh feminist. I'm like, seriously,

1078
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: I have a number. What does that make her? She's three? Yeah, yeah,

1079
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: it's a whole different thing, understandable. Any other books not

1080
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: that I think of. Okay, uh, tell us what has

1081
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: changed within the industry of both HR recruiting and corporate culture.

1082
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: We talked about a little bit. I think, uh, I

1083
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: think mobile computing, if that's the right way to I

1084
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: think it's funny that we call it a phone, right

1085
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: when it's a phone and it's a camera, and it's

1086
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: it's video and it's yeah, you know, it's it's a computer,

1087
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's a search engine, it's uh, you know,

1088
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: all those things, and I think that ability it's creepy

1089
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: sometimes when you're in rooms of a hundred people. You know,

1090
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: I do a lot of public speaking, and when I

1091
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: first started doing it with younger audiences, I thought, oh,

1092
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: that I'm too old. They don't like me. It's not

1093
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: very interesting. They're all looking at their phones. And then

1094
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: then I realized, oh, they tweeted every word, so that

1095
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: processing is really different. And I wasn't a Twitter user.

1096
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was ridiculous and I'm completely be a

1097
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: junkie because it's such real time information. Absolutely, so I

1098
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: think Twitter is the new tape we like to say whatever,

1099
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: or it's the old tape. And because you know, my

1100
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: kids will be like, mom, it's so snap right, nobody

1101
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: tweets anymore. But but so that I think that technology

1102
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: of having that ability with you at all times, I

1103
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: think that's really significant. I think that will really change.

1104
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: It's made the world so much smaller because things happen

1105
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: in parts of the world and suddenly you have a

1106
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: bird's eye view of exactly what's going on, which has been,

1107
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: which has been going. I mean, the idea that we

1108
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: can undo globalization is just like it laughable. It's crazy stuff.

1109
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: It's just so silly. So so mobile computing slash iPhones

1110
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: are the current major shift. What's the next shift that's

1111
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: going to take place? I think the technology is going

1112
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: to enable us to work the way that is really

1113
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: efficient and effective, which is collaboration across geographies, um, across cultures,

1114
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: across you know, thinking about customers as global customers. I

1115
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: think that that will change speed and that you know,

1116
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: we have this belief I think from the fifties that

1117
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: business grows in a linear fashion, you know, all those

1118
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: up into the right charts that we're so used to seeing,

1119
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: and actually I see it really evolving right the when

1120
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: I talked to the large financial institutions, for example, that

1121
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: say I think we've got it. You know, we've been

1122
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: doing it like this for three hundred years and we're huge,

1123
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:42,959
Speaker 1: and momentum won't stop us. Well, tell Blockbuster even better,

1124
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. Tell us about a time you failed

1125
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: and what you learn from the experience, you know, and

1126
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: this moment in my life and the whole me too movement, Um,

1127
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: I think about the times I failed to stand up

1128
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: for what was right when I is there, you know, well,

1129
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: maybe he won't do it anymore, and we really need

1130
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: him because he's a sales guy and we have a

1131
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: hockey stick end of quarter, right, So let's just he

1132
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: won't misbehave. And it took me a long time to

1133
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: realize that people who misbehave inappropriately with each other. Let's

1134
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: take that particular example, are probably lying about the quarterly

1135
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: sales number two clients. MS. Yeah, So I think, you know,

1136
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: if I look back and think about what I would

1137
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: do over again, it would be to own my shrillness sooner.

1138
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: What do you do about somebody who is just spectacular

1139
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: at their job but brings so much baggage it may

1140
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: not be worth it. You let them work somewhere else.

1141
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: And that's I just told somebody yesterday. I said, cocktail

1142
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: party last night, we were talking exactly about this, and

1143
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: I said, well, you guys, it was a bunch of recruiters.

1144
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, you can tell them in

1145
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: the interview. I've done it many times. You know. We're

1146
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: done with the interview, and I say, you know, you're

1147
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: you're a brilliant guy, and you have a lot of skills,

1148
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: but you know you've got an attitude that's really off putting.

1149
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: And I don't think you're going to be successful here.

1150
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: In case anybody hasn't it has not told you this

1151
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: explicitly before you fall into that category, right, and we're

1152
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: just not doing it. Thanks a lot at what's the

1153
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: reaction to that? Um? A lot of times like humble, stunt, silence,

1154
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: or they somebody's people have said that to them in

1155
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: one way or another their whole lives, and it's until

1156
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: somebody says, well, we're not tolerating that. It's the same

1157
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: with sexual harassment, right. You know, it makes me crazy.

1158
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: I don't want us to be I don't want this

1159
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: to be an HR issue to fix. You know, go

1160
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: tell HR and there's a hiring issue screen. No, it's

1161
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: a living, every day issue. We need to not be

1162
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: the people that investigate set harassment after it happens. So

1163
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: that's your question, was what have I failed at? I

1164
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: failed at standing up going That's what I'm talking about

1165
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: right now. You just did it. Knock it off, right

1166
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: and saying in your twenties, look when you look at

1167
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: my body instead of my face when we're having a

1168
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: conversation at work, that's weird. Please stop. And when you're young,

1169
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: you'll go, oh, I didn't realize I was doing that.

1170
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Thanks. When you're forty five, Yeah, not acceptable,

1171
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: And every no one's ever said anything then you think

1172
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: it is acceptable that that's that's pretty astounding. Um. What

1173
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: do you do to keep mentally fit outside of work? What? What?

1174
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: What do you do for fun? I have two grand dogs,

1175
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: grand dogs, grand dogs, kids dogs, and my kids dogs

1176
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: and grand dogs I think are close to as good

1177
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: as grandchildren because I had to give them back. Um,

1178
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: we have we have a sailboat and uh we do

1179
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: a lot of sailing in the Monterey Bay, which is

1180
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: where I live. And um, and I've taken up gardening again.

1181
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to now do all of those like things

1182
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: that semi retired people might do if I have semi

1183
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: We were just talking about the weather here in New York.

1184
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: The nicest thing about spring is all the shoots are

1185
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: coming up. All my raised beds I'm getting ready to replant.

1186
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: It's really this is my favorite time of the year,

1187
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: or certainly seems that way. It's very zin, isn't it.

1188
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: It is totally getting your hands in the dirt. There's

1189
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: just something specially maybe the future is the combo of

1190
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: like your hands in one hand in the dirt. On

1191
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: the other hand, on your cell phone. No, when I'm

1192
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: out there, the phone sits in the shade. If I'm lucky,

1193
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: I leave it on the charger and side so I

1194
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,839
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with it. But there are times

1195
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: to be completely in totally UM. And now my two

1196
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: favorite questions. If we were talking about millennials, If a

1197
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: millennial or college graduate came to you and said, I'm

1198
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 1: interested in a career in HR, what sort of advice

1199
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: would you give them. Well, I'll tell you what general

1200
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: career advice I give people early in their career. Anyway,

1201
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: I say, it's not what you know or who you know,

1202
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: it's who knows what you know, who knows what you know,

1203
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: who knows what you know. So the idea of a

1204
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,679
Speaker 1: network we used to call it networking is now part

1205
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: is breathing, right, because everybody is socially networked all the time.

1206
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 1: But I would say, early on, start building a group

1207
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: of people around you. It can be on social networking

1208
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 1: that know what it is you're interested in, that you

1209
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: get to know. Because more importantly, UM, it's about owning

1210
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: your own career from the very beginning and not passively

1211
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: joining a company and waiting for them to take care

1212
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,919
Speaker 1: of you. And it's about trying new things and figuring

1213
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: out what it is that you love to do. So

1214
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: I have in the book I talked about my algorithm

1215
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: for success, and it's a mathematical formula and it says,

1216
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: is what you love to do that you're extraordinarily good

1217
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: at doing something we need someone to be great at.

1218
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: And so when you're early in your career, you don't know, right,

1219
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: And so it's really important early to try things that

1220
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: you think you might not like to do to find

1221
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: out if you really don't interesting And my favorite question,

1222
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: what is it that you know today about culture and

1223
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: hr and the like that you wish you knew twenty

1224
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: plus years ago? I wish I had realized my own power. Um,

1225
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: I wish I realized how much it mattered. I mean

1226
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: I came up with you know, when I started well,

1227
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: I started recruiting. So that was a very um measurable

1228
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: thing to do. I called this many people. I got

1229
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: this many phone screens in this many interviews, and I

1230
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: made this many offers and I got this many hires.

1231
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: And because I was an internal cruder, I could see

1232
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: sort of who worked out and who didn't like when

1233
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: I put a button a seat that I knew wasn't

1234
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: the right butt right. Um so, but I didn't know

1235
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 1: how important what I did was. I thought it was administrative.

1236
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: And then I went through a part of my career

1237
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: and part of my function where our job was to

1238
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 1: protect ourselves from those evil employees that might sue us.

1239
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: And I lived through that long enough to realize that

1240
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: when evil employees sue you, it's usually because you did

1241
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: something that made them really mad, usually by not telling

1242
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: them the truth that made them think it was totally unfair,

1243
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: that they were blindsided by something or tortured with their

1244
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: performance improvement plan into ben into being told that they're

1245
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: incompetent when they're not. That's when people sue you. And now,

1246
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of live in this goofy. I

1247
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: tell HR people all the time, like you you know,

1248
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: you think they think you're schizophrenic. Half the time you're

1249
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: there to make them happy with craft beer, and the

1250
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: other half you're protecting the company from them suing you,

1251
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: like who are you? That's that's fascinating. And so I

1252
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 1: think we're a vital part of every organization, and that's

1253
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: putting the right teams together that get amazing stuff done.

1254
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Patty McCord, former chief talent

1255
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: officer at Netflix and currently the author of Powerful Building

1256
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:28,480
Speaker 1: a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility. If you enjoy this conversation,

1257
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 1: be sure and look up an intro down an inch

1258
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: on Apple iTunes, where you can see any of the

1259
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: other two hundred such conversations that we've had over the

1260
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: past four years. I would be remiss if I did

1261
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: not thank my crack team who helps put together these

1262
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,839
Speaker 1: conversations each week. Uh Modina Partwana is our audio engineer

1263
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,560
Speaker 1: slash producer, Taylor Riggs is our book or slash producer,

1264
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: and Michael Batnick is my head of research. We love

1265
01:12:55,439 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 1: your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at m

1266
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I'm Barry Rihoults. You've

1267
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.