Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's your pale Josh. For this week's select,
Speaker 1: I've chosen our twenty sixteen episode on motion sickness, one
Speaker 1: of the worst, non injurious, non life threatening things that
Speaker 1: can happen to you. But don't worry. You won't get
Speaker 1: motion sick just from listening and maybe knowing a little
Speaker 1: more about it might help you avoid it. We can
Speaker 1: only hope enjoy.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua Clark. There's
Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there. I'm speaking
Speaker 1: in a monotone kind of.
Speaker 2: Hey, dude, Hey, how's it going.
Speaker 1: It's going well. I'm not motion sick, so things are fine.
Speaker 1: Do you get motion sick sometimes? I mean if the condition.
Speaker 1: I was really surprised to find that not everybody gets
Speaker 1: motion sick.
Speaker 2: What are your conditions?
Speaker 1: Poor ventilation and like lots of movement backseat of a car? Okay,
Speaker 1: but anytime I read in a car, yeah, even like
Speaker 1: glancing at my phone on a map. Really, if I
Speaker 1: have to read anything, yeah, it gets me very quick.
Speaker 1: So I've just learned like I can't do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I cannot do it, so I don't.
Speaker 2: I get it a little bit too. I used to
Speaker 2: get it more, I think when I was younger. Supposedly
Speaker 2: it's normal. Supposedly it is. But I remember a very
Speaker 2: specific story that my brother still laughs at.
Speaker 1: And by the.
Speaker 2: Way, boy, I'm glad. I said that I owe my brother,
Speaker 2: my big brother, a big apology because I saw him
Speaker 2: over the weekend and he said, oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: I was just did an old episode and he said,
Speaker 2: you'd never been a groom a best man. I was
Speaker 2: the best man at my brother's wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh out, man. I felt like a jerk, man, Scott,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know.
Speaker 2: And what happened was when I said I hadn't, I
Speaker 2: just like quickly scanned through my friends that have gotten married,
Speaker 2: and I didn't think about my brother and I was
Speaker 2: his best man. Boy, I know, man, what a jerk.
Speaker 1: Well it's it's rectified.
Speaker 2: Well I told him. I was like, you're going to
Speaker 2: get a public apology, So there it is.
Speaker 1: That's pretty public.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's public as it gets.
Speaker 1: You could have also started a scores based website if
Speaker 1: you wanted. It's really easy.
Speaker 2: I might do that. So anyway, there's this old story
Speaker 2: when we went to Disney Geez, which is the one
Speaker 2: where Body Wars is at. I should have asked Holly.
Speaker 2: From stuff you missed in history class, you.
Speaker 1: Would know she probably senses that someone's talking about Disney
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Body Wars either was or still is. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's still there. One of those rides that you
Speaker 2: sit in a you know, it was one of those
Speaker 2: first sort of virtual things where they show you a
Speaker 2: movie and they moved.
Speaker 1: The car, like the Amazing Voyage or something, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you went inside a human body and we're traveling around.
Speaker 2: I want to say Disney World, but I can't remember.
Speaker 2: So I went in that and.
Speaker 1: I mean waiting. You grew up in Atlanta, I'm guessing
Speaker 1: you went to disney World.
Speaker 2: Well, it definitely was at Disneyland, but I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was Epcot Oh or Universal Studio or Disney World.
Speaker 2: It was in Orlando.
Speaker 1: So from what I understand, we have a buddy who
Speaker 1: works for Disney, and he set me straight on this before,
Speaker 1: and I think I've got it. So Disney World is
Speaker 1: all of those. The Magic Kingdom is what you're specifying.
Speaker 2: So Disney world includes Epcott and Universal Studios.
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, I really hope I'm not mistake.
Speaker 2: And the Magic Kingdom is specifically went with the Castle, right.
Speaker 1: If I did get that wrong, Brandon, I apologize.
Speaker 2: It's one with the castle and all the weird adults
Speaker 2: that think they're children.
Speaker 1: Like Holly from stuff you missed in history class.
Speaker 2: Uh so body wars anyway, you're traveling through the body,
Speaker 2: and I remember at one point I was like, man,
Speaker 2: this is it's getting hot in here, and Scott was like,
Speaker 2: this is great. I was like, I'm not feeling so
Speaker 2: good man. It's like do they have the heat going?
Speaker 2: It's like, what are you talking about? It feels great?
Speaker 2: And I got I didn't vomit, but I got really
Speaker 2: sick and made it through the ride and left. And
Speaker 2: he still teases me to this day. He was like,
Speaker 2: it was temperature air controlled, yeah, and you thought it
Speaker 2: was like ninety degrees and they were like pumping in heat.
Speaker 1: It's funny, like it got to you like that, like
Speaker 1: your own body cold sweats the whole wh Yeah, that's bad,
Speaker 1: but generally you you actually did puke.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I did not poke. You didn't, but generally,
Speaker 2: I don't like it takes a certain thing, like a
Speaker 2: really hardcore roller coaster, right, going in fast fast circles. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I don't get sick on plains or the one
Speaker 2: cruise I went on, I didn't get sick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've gotten I've gotten sick before, like
Speaker 1: on vacation. But and on planes it's usually fairly fleeting.
Speaker 1: It's when I introduced reading that it's like, right, you're
Speaker 1: in big trouble for a long time.
Speaker 2: You can read on a plane though I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, now I think about it's reading in
Speaker 1: a car. I just got to stay away from that.
Speaker 1: But usually it does come about with like poor ventilation
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, yeah, which is another trigger, it's
Speaker 1: a big one, or like a rough odor or something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I'm sure all those things don't help.
Speaker 1: The thing is for for as much as like we
Speaker 1: kind of commonly understand motion sickness, science really doesn't have
Speaker 1: a full explanation for it.
Speaker 2: I'm picturing little Josh because riding backwards is bad and
Speaker 2: like a rumble seat and a station wagon.
Speaker 1: In a in a Subaru brat with like your.
Speaker 2: Dad has like salami socks on or something that stink, what,
Speaker 2: like the windows are rolled up. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to think of something gross.
Speaker 1: Salami socks, like socks made of salami.
Speaker 2: Sure, Like, whendn't that smelled gross?
Speaker 1: He's wearing the skin of another person.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I was thinking sock smelled like old salami,
Speaker 2: but made of salami is even better? Right, I think
Speaker 2: I'm just picturing you back there, like reading your Mad
Speaker 2: magazine feeling bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I do remember being a kid and
Speaker 1: figuring out I can't read in cars. There was a
Speaker 1: period where I could, which is kind of surprising because
Speaker 1: when you're younger, you're more susceptible to motion sickness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I could read in the car while I was younger,
Speaker 1: and then probably around the time of puberty, I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 2: So you went opposite. Yeah weird. Yeah, well maybe you
Speaker 2: developed your hips, right, because that's a tease. We'll just
Speaker 2: leave that out there, all right. So twenty five to
Speaker 2: forty percent of people supposedly are susceptible to motion sickness.
Speaker 2: So weird, and it can happen on planes, it can happen.
Speaker 2: It's weird. This one University of Maryland side I went
Speaker 2: to said the following are the most common risk factors
Speaker 2: riding in a car, boat, airplane, or space shuttle. Really, yeah, nerds,
Speaker 2: Just like they didn't even put amusement park ride. They
Speaker 2: just went straight to space shuttle.
Speaker 1: You know, one that I I hadn't seen before, but
Speaker 1: apparently as the thing is looking through a microscope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a little bit of sense though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the slag can move and your eyes are
Speaker 1: seeing movement but you're not moving. Uh huh, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't get to you like another nerdy motion sickness,
Speaker 1: space shuttles and microscopes.
Speaker 2: So, like you said, age between two and twelve, you're
Speaker 2: more likely and then you're also more likely to grow
Speaker 2: out of it after puberty. And one of the reasons
Speaker 2: that women are more motion sickness than men, or get
Speaker 2: motion sickness more than men, is because one of the
Speaker 2: theories is that after puberty they developed more in the hips,
Speaker 2: men develop more in the chest, and I guess that
Speaker 2: makes a difference. They didn't really explain why, though, did they.
Speaker 1: Well, it all has to do with sway theory, which
Speaker 1: will oh, that's right, right, sway theory. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: is true that like women are more susceptible just on average,
Speaker 1: to motion sickness than men are.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw some studies apparently.
Speaker 1: Also Asian women Asian period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Penn State did a study and they put
Speaker 2: people in situations that make emotion sick or not.
Speaker 1: Did you look into those?
Speaker 2: Oh? Is it like a tilted whirl Dude?
Speaker 1: Like if you went in for just a clinical study,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna make some scratch and maybe they'll give
Speaker 1: me a cool drug or something. Yeah, and it turns
Speaker 1: out to be a motion sickness study, you should leave.
Speaker 2: No. I totally was.
Speaker 1: So there's this thing called a optkinetic drum I believe
Speaker 1: is what it's called. Oh I did see that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: optkinetic joke. It's like it's like a drum, like a
Speaker 1: big drum that you sit inside of, and it's got
Speaker 1: vertical black and white painted stripes and it spins around
Speaker 1: you and the motion, the movement is really emphasized and
Speaker 1: like it's designed to make anybody motion sick and that's
Speaker 1: how they induce motion sickness. And I saw another one
Speaker 1: where they use a chair that just kind of moves
Speaker 1: you around, whether you like it or not, and it
Speaker 1: induces motion sickness. Like, what a terrible thing to have happened.
Speaker 2: You man. There was a ride at six Flags over
Speaker 2: Georgia growing up that they got rid of because someone
Speaker 2: got hurt, supposedly where it's this barrel that you all
Speaker 2: get in. You stand, it's like kind of below ground.
Speaker 2: You stand against the wall and it spins so fast.
Speaker 2: Then they dropped the floor beneath you, and the centrifugal
Speaker 2: force hold you against the wall.
Speaker 1: It's like a spin cycle and a washing machine. You mean.
Speaker 1: I were just talking about that the other day.
Speaker 2: Thing was awful.
Speaker 1: That was my favorite of all time.
Speaker 2: Really, uh huh.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so cool.
Speaker 2: Well, the old story was that someone's leg got trapped
Speaker 2: when the floor came back.
Speaker 1: Up, But I remember hearing that now that I look.
Speaker 2: Back, because I'm sure that was an old wives tale.
Speaker 1: Although I was on Snoops the other day and I
Speaker 1: was reading an early article and they were talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the urban legend about some girl who got
Speaker 1: scalped because her hair got caught in an amusement park
Speaker 1: ride or something. It actually happened, really, Yeah, the girl's
Speaker 1: ponytail got caught in there. And just got pulled right
Speaker 1: off of her head. I know, but it actually did happen.
Speaker 1: So it's possible someone's leg got sucked into the tilta world.
Speaker 2: Well, but then what happens is it happened to every
Speaker 2: amusement park.
Speaker 1: Right right. It just happened to my cousin's friend.
Speaker 2: Right, all right. So the Penn State study they put
Speaker 2: people in these torture machines and interestingly, they did confirm
Speaker 2: eighty percent of Asian people got sick, when it was
Speaker 2: less than fifty percent for Caucation and non Caucasian, which is.
Speaker 1: Really it's very crazy, but it kind of underscores a
Speaker 1: growing awareness among motion sickness researchers aka the evil ones,
Speaker 1: that genetics play a big role in susceptibility to motion sickness.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because there were another couple of findings that
Speaker 2: lend to that. Twins. They studied two hundred sets of
Speaker 2: identical twins, and one hundred percent of the identical twins
Speaker 2: were both affected. Really yeah, and some of that, you know,
Speaker 2: they can't prove that it's genetics because it also could
Speaker 2: be the just where they were raised and how were
Speaker 2: they raised. What's that called?
Speaker 1: Uh nurture, environment.
Speaker 2: Environment environmental And if parents are both susceptible to motion sickness,
Speaker 2: they found that their children are five times more likely,
Speaker 2: So it sort of points to genetics. But then other
Speaker 2: things point away from genetics, like why why would you
Speaker 2: know two people in the same family and the same
Speaker 2: conditions not get sick or why did two people period
Speaker 2: not get.
Speaker 1: Sick right under the same conditions. Yeah, Like, I guess
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Salami socks smell, yeah, yeah, same backwards
Speaker 1: facing seat.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is they haven't figured
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 1: No, they haven't. But if we do figure out that
Speaker 1: it's genetic, thanks to the magic of the Crisper cast
Speaker 1: nine gene editing process, be able to knock that right
Speaker 1: out for you.
Speaker 2: What else pregnant?
Speaker 1: Yeah, pregnant women are more susceptible to it. Women who
Speaker 1: are menstruating, I think also are, and people who get
Speaker 1: migraines are more susceptible. And then people who sleep poorly
Speaker 1: are more susceptible to motion sickness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it says if you're prone to nausea or vomiting,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if that's like, that's the sort
Speaker 2: of a chicken or the egg thing.
Speaker 1: So it's well, we're going to get into again. We
Speaker 1: said science doesn't understand exactly what's going on here, but
Speaker 1: there's some good theories. We're going to talk about them
Speaker 1: right after this. So chuck, Yeah, let's talk about some
Speaker 1: theories for motion sickness because it's kind of two Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw. I think it was this Atlantic article you sent.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: It's not so much it's not so much science. It's
Speaker 1: a debate, yeah, over you know, the likelier explanation. But
Speaker 1: they actually kind of fit together, I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But if you ask the people, apparently the author in
Speaker 2: the Atlantic, it's called the Mysterious Science of Motion Sickness,
Speaker 2: he sort of pokes fun a little bit. He's like,
Speaker 2: to me, they sound sort of the same. But don't
Speaker 2: tell that to those people who believe one or the other,
Speaker 2: because they're like, no, they're nothing like each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she Julie Beck, Oh is that who was?
Speaker 2: All right? Nice job, Julie, good article. Pat on the
Speaker 2: back for you, cold star. So here's the first one.
Speaker 2: Is in this one, they both make a lot of
Speaker 2: sense to me. Basically, there's a dissonance between the parts
Speaker 2: of your body that sense motion. Right, that's the easiest
Speaker 2: way to say it.
Speaker 1: It's called the sensory conflict theory.
Speaker 2: Yeahs you got tryballs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sense motion. It's it's weird if you think
Speaker 1: about your eyes doing that, but that's one of the
Speaker 1: roles that they play.
Speaker 2: Yeah you see motion, right. Sure.
Speaker 1: You also have the vestibular system, which is centered around
Speaker 1: your inner ear yep, and that definitely senses motion, movement, acceleration, gravity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you have all the sensor the sensors and
Speaker 1: like your muscles and joints and stuff.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I didn't really think about that as being one,
Speaker 2: but for sure. Yeah, like your body actually feels it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well think about it, like if you if you
Speaker 1: feel yourself kind of moving backward, you're definitely sensing it
Speaker 1: through your inner ear, but you can also feel it
Speaker 1: in your feet as well, and they're sending a bulletin
Speaker 1: to your brain saying, lean forward, dummy, you're gonna fall back.
Speaker 1: What's your problem, friend? Yeah, that's what it says.
Speaker 2: So this dissonance occurs when basically, like let's say you're
Speaker 2: sitting in a movie theater like an imax, and it's
Speaker 2: a scene where you're you're flying with Superman or something like.
Speaker 2: You're seeing this with your eyeball, like a first person
Speaker 2: perspective shot of flight, right, but you're sitting in your seat,
Speaker 2: so your eyes are saying you're flying, and your butt's
Speaker 2: going You're sitting here.
Speaker 1: And your brain's like a witch Yeah, pretty much witchcraft.
Speaker 2: So it creates this this, it creates motion sickness. That's
Speaker 2: when the nausea might kick in, dizziness, those cold sweats, salivation.
Speaker 1: I like how the author of the house Stuff Works
Speaker 1: article pointed out she specifically mentioned Avatar.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Who is the dude the guy who's like the friend
Speaker 1: on the Flight of the Concords Mary, No, the other dude,
Speaker 1: the guy who worked in the ponds.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh man, what is his name?
Speaker 2: It's not Arge Barker.
Speaker 1: Is Arge Barker? Yes it was. I always want to
Speaker 1: call him Bosler him, and I know it's definitely not
Speaker 1: the same dude. Great comedian Ars Barker. You mean, I
Speaker 1: went to go see him. He did some stand up right,
Speaker 1: and he was talking about Avatar and he said, when
Speaker 1: it first came out, people were like, oh, Avatar, have
Speaker 1: you seen Avatar?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, great? And then like everything you heard was have
Speaker 1: you seen Avatar? You got to see Avatar, he said,
Speaker 1: like after a couple of weeks, you'd just be walking
Speaker 1: down the sidewalk and people would pull up alongside you
Speaker 1: in their car and roll down the window and go Avatar.
Speaker 1: And this is I think a great example of that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I posted an article on Facebook not
Speaker 2: too long ago on the stuff you Should Know page
Speaker 2: about this person wrote an article about Avatar and their
Speaker 2: argument was that it for such a huge movie, it
Speaker 2: had like zero cultural impact, like it was big at
Speaker 2: the time, but does anyone care now, Like it's not
Speaker 2: like the Star Wars World or oh Star Trek or
Speaker 2: all these things. And I totally agreed. I saw Avatar
Speaker 2: once and I was like, I'm done with it. Typical
Speaker 2: James Cameron schlock.
Speaker 1: I've seen it zero times now.
Speaker 2: That sucks. But dude, there are Avatar people though I
Speaker 2: know that piled on and were like, was goy, have
Speaker 2: no idea what he's talking about. It's totally relevant.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure they're going to be all over our
Speaker 1: Facebook page after this episode comes back. Hey truck forever.
Speaker 2: Now, I like some of James Cameron's stuff, but if
Speaker 2: he wrote the script, then it's I'm not gonna like it.
Speaker 1: No, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2: I think he's a hack writer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did I just say that to hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm sure James Cameron cares what you think.
Speaker 1: He's at the bottom of the Marianna Trench right now.
Speaker 1: He's not listening into Stuffy.
Speaker 2: She's picking out my future burial site.
Speaker 1: So, Chuck, we were talking about the sensory conflict theory, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's one big explanation and it definitely kind of makes sense,
Speaker 1: right you Your brain just basically gets overloaded and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to sit down. I've got the vapors. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of bad impressions in this episode,
Speaker 1: as it knows to be somebody fainting in the late
Speaker 1: nineteenth century.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's great. So it was your Archbarker.
Speaker 1: A fop, That's what it was.
Speaker 2: It was a fop, the dandy fop.
Speaker 1: There's another competing idea, and that is we kind of
Speaker 1: talked about. It's called sway theory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a dude, Thomas Staffragen or Stuffragen. I'm
Speaker 2: going with the gin with jin Je Stuffragen, University of
Speaker 2: University of Minnesota, Prorofessor of Kinesiology and listen to this.
Speaker 2: He's the director of its Affordance Perception Action Laboratory NERD.
Speaker 1: He gets motion sickness looking through microscopes, so.
Speaker 2: He proposes the sway theory, which basically has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the vestibular system. He said.
Speaker 1: He says that I don't I don't necessarily agree with that, but.
Speaker 2: Okay, agree that he thinks that.
Speaker 1: No, I know that he thinks that. I don't agree
Speaker 1: with that his take on that. Agree. I think it's
Speaker 1: still tied together.
Speaker 2: But his theory is in this first party is in theory.
Speaker 2: It's true, is that everyone sways, Like unless you're one
Speaker 2: of those people that stand at like motionless in the
Speaker 2: middle of New Orleans for money.
Speaker 1: Yeah silver or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're good, they're good at it. But if you're
Speaker 2: just a regular dope like you and I, when we
Speaker 2: stand there, we're going to be moving in a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you me swaying a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's weird. Like if you stop and like really pay
Speaker 1: attention to it, yeah you notice it, but you'll never
Speaker 1: notice it unless you are focused on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're always moving a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, swaying. If you're standing up, you're swaying for the
Speaker 1: most part.
Speaker 2: Yes. And the point he makes is if everyone truly
Speaker 2: relaxed every muscle in their body, they'd fall over.
Speaker 1: Right. So the whole point, the whole thing is swaying
Speaker 1: is it's the byproduct of us standing upright, which is
Speaker 1: not something we've been doing for all of the time
Speaker 1: we've been on earth, because we evolve from things that
Speaker 1: walked on four legs. Standing up's kind of new.
Speaker 2: Well sure, and babies don't stand up right. They have
Speaker 2: to learn as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so Stuffridgen's whole idea is that motion sickness
Speaker 1: comes about when you have when you're exposed to movement
Speaker 1: that contradicts the natural swaying that you've learned to do
Speaker 1: to stand upright right, and it undermines it and your
Speaker 1: brain goes which.
Speaker 2: Makes sense in a way because let's say you're on
Speaker 2: a boat and the boat's tilting to the left, and
Speaker 2: so what your feet do or you know, they account
Speaker 2: for that, and maybe you lean in on the inside
Speaker 2: of your foot and your toes flex right. So because
Speaker 2: you want to make yourself more upright again, and then
Speaker 2: the boat turns again in a direction you're not expecting.
Speaker 2: You're correcting for that first move, the second move happens,
Speaker 2: and your body doesn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. The the sensory conflict one makes a
Speaker 1: little more sense to me than this one, because that
Speaker 1: sounds to me like if that, if that were the case,
Speaker 1: if that's what's going on, and it clearly is, like
Speaker 1: when it's when you get your sea legs or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you you, you were moving along, You're trying to stay
Speaker 1: standing under these weird conditions. Why would that translate into
Speaker 1: something like dizzyness or nausea or vomiting or cold sweats.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense to me. Sensory conflict, I can
Speaker 1: see translating into it. But even beyond that, a lot
Speaker 1: of people are like, no, that doesn't Still, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense why you would vomit. And this one guy
Speaker 1: named Michael Treesman in nineteen seventy seven came up with
Speaker 1: a pretty awesome explanation for why we should get nauseated
Speaker 1: when we get motion sick.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, should we take a break and talk
Speaker 2: about that?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Sure, all right? Josh Michael treesmaneteen seven, twenty seven in
Speaker 2: the journal Science. What did he say?
Speaker 1: Oh, he said that we get nauseated from motion sickness
Speaker 1: because over there are some toxins out there that can
Speaker 1: mess with our vestibular system. Right, Yes, So the body
Speaker 1: is tricked into thinking that it's possibly been exposed to
Speaker 1: some sort of toxin because the vestibular the vestibular system
Speaker 1: is out of whack from motion sickness, So it gets
Speaker 1: nauseated and ultimately might vomit as a reflex to get
Speaker 1: rid of whatever toxin it thinks has been ingested. It's
Speaker 1: basically a case of mistaken identity. I think it explains
Speaker 1: it perfectly. Yeah, it makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: I could see a little bit. Yeah, I think what
Speaker 2: what Stuffragen is saying is that you're used to regaining
Speaker 2: your balance. You spend your entire life learning this system,
Speaker 2: and that if it's thrown off, what he doesn't do
Speaker 2: is connect it. I believe. I believe you're right, he
Speaker 2: doesn't connect it in the end, like something that happens
Speaker 2: in your brain.
Speaker 1: Right, why the physiological reaction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, Yeah, he.
Speaker 1: Does have some pretty good evidence backing his idea. Of
Speaker 1: sway theory up though, So again, women are more susceptible
Speaker 1: to motion sickness than men, right, Yes, that's what they say. Well,
Speaker 1: he says, aha, Well, sway theory explains this. Kids are
Speaker 1: equally susceptible to both genders are equally susceptible to motion
Speaker 1: sickness before puberty. Then after puberty, the bodies change, and
Speaker 1: where women and men hold most of their weight is different. Right,
Speaker 1: Women hold it mostly around their hips, Men hold it
Speaker 1: more around their chest, and that means that the center
Speaker 1: of gravity is different, which means the amount that we
Speaker 1: sway is different.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think who does he say sways? Women
Speaker 2: sway farther but slower but slower.
Speaker 1: Men sway faster but within a tighter area.
Speaker 2: And these are micro sways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that like most people move
Speaker 1: no more than like an inch to any given side. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and even then you're like Barney on the Simpsons when
Speaker 1: he walked out for that like bachelor auction.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then there's also land sickness, which is interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I didn't look too much into it, but I have
Speaker 2: heard of it, which is basically the concept that if
Speaker 2: you're a sailor, right then you've gotten or you know,
Speaker 2: just somebody who's been on boats enough. You don't have
Speaker 2: to be a professional. You get your sea legs so
Speaker 2: well that you get land sickness.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: When you get back, yeah, and you're on solid ground,
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: What to do, right, because your brain's so used to
Speaker 1: things moving that it perceives that it's moving even though
Speaker 1: it's not.
Speaker 2: Do you want to say the French name for it?
Speaker 1: Milde barkmont close? Let me look, I wasn't even looking
Speaker 1: that was you forgot the middle part? Well, then you
Speaker 1: say it.
Speaker 2: There's a qui in the middle. So maybe mal de barcumen.
Speaker 1: I said mal Debarkamon, mel debarquemon bark moon have barbecue, mallt.
Speaker 2: I love that when we do this stuff, there's it's
Speaker 2: probably literally fifty percent people laughing and fifty percent people
Speaker 2: want to kill us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah a lot of people want to
Speaker 1: kill us. I can live with that as long as
Speaker 1: they never do.
Speaker 2: All right, So should we go over some some things
Speaker 2: that you can do to prevent it?
Speaker 1: Because I mean that that whole segment on what explains
Speaker 1: motion sickness is kind of petered out, But that's the
Speaker 1: state of science right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although they I will say, they have looked at
Speaker 2: the twenty three and me for the genetic side, and
Speaker 2: have found some support for both claims.
Speaker 1: I think that they're together. I do too, Like I think,
Speaker 1: if yes, your your swaying system is set up in
Speaker 1: a certain way, and why can't that be a component that,
Speaker 1: along with the vestibular system and your sight and all
Speaker 1: that is affected and creates motion sickness. I just don't
Speaker 1: understand why it has to be one or the other.
Speaker 1: That was the impression that I had he was trying
Speaker 1: to really come get across, is that it's no, it's
Speaker 1: its own thing. Yeah, yeah, I think that's weird. So
Speaker 1: what do you what do you go to if you
Speaker 1: get motions sick?
Speaker 2: Well, they say to keep your eyes on the horizon,
Speaker 2: whether you're in a car or a boat or whatever.
Speaker 1: That that'll help cuts down on motion, right or the
Speaker 1: sensation of motion. I'm not sure I think so, because
Speaker 1: think about it, when you look at stuff that's close
Speaker 1: to the car, it's blurring by. It's the horizon sting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: constant look.
Speaker 2: At you keep your head still so you can lay
Speaker 2: down if you're able to somewhere, or at least put
Speaker 2: your head back against the seat. Yeah, just sort of
Speaker 2: keep it as still as possible. Don't smoke.
Speaker 1: Sure, they just good advice all around.
Speaker 2: Exactly if you're gonna fly, they say to avoid big,
Speaker 2: greasy meals and alcohol the night before, and eat light
Speaker 2: meals or snacks low en calories the day of.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you do want to have something in your stomach, though,
Speaker 1: because that's.
Speaker 2: Just can't help empty stomach. No good, right, turn that
Speaker 2: air vent. Whether you're in your car or a plane
Speaker 2: or a boat, you want some fresh air blowing on
Speaker 2: your face, ideally or at least recycled air.
Speaker 1: I felt this bed since then, Anita Bryant Hunt.
Speaker 2: Sit in the front of the airplane or over a wing, supposedly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rear of the airplane.
Speaker 2: Can you tell a difference?
Speaker 1: Oh man, really, you just get whipped around back and forth.
Speaker 1: It's way worse if you get motion sick. You should
Speaker 1: never sit behind the wings of the airplane.
Speaker 2: See I love the last car of a roller coaster though.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you're feeling it more. Yeah, you're enjoying it more.
Speaker 1: You don't get motion sick.
Speaker 2: What else avoids salty foods? Before you travel.
Speaker 1: There's also remedies too, right, So the jury's out on
Speaker 1: whether ginger actually helps or not if it's just a
Speaker 1: placebo effect.
Speaker 2: Ginger, peppermint, and black horehound apparently are some of the
Speaker 2: herbs that may or may not work. Who knows.
Speaker 1: I can tell you firsthand, and I looked it up.
Speaker 1: See bands, acupressure bracelets. Yeah, that go on your wrist,
Speaker 1: three fingers with down from the heel of your palm.
Speaker 2: The pericardium six So was the acupuncture point.
Speaker 1: I saw research that showed that neither placebo nor the
Speaker 1: acupressure bands had any effect on motion sickness. I can
Speaker 1: tell you that even if it is just placebo, they
Speaker 1: still work. Oh yeah, the firsthand, they work all right,
Speaker 1: even if it's placebo. I don't care. That's fine because
Speaker 1: it keeps me from being motion sick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kept me and you me from being motion
Speaker 1: sick on an entire cruise.
Speaker 2: But would you have been motion sick without it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we had. We didn't use it for one
Speaker 1: day and we fell immediately.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I brought one on my only cruise that I
Speaker 2: went to, and I don't think I wore it because
Speaker 2: I didn't need to.
Speaker 1: We had like divots on our wrisk because we just
Speaker 1: had them on like the whole time. Yeah you should
Speaker 1: bring it just in case.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1: We also had scopalamine. Yeah, and we didn't even use
Speaker 1: it because the sea bands work so well.
Speaker 2: Drama meine is that the same thing or is no different?
Speaker 1: Scopal of meine is that stuff that like they drug
Speaker 1: people with and then it's like remember in our truth
Speaker 1: Sier episode we talked about scopel of me Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a drug in South America where they'll they'll
Speaker 1: dose you with it and then you end up like
Speaker 1: just basically becoming zombified and don't remember anything. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the same stuff, but it doles the messages from your
Speaker 1: inner ear to your brain, so your sensation of motion
Speaker 1: has decreased.
Speaker 2: Nice homeopathy. There haven't been a ton of studies about
Speaker 2: the effective effectiveness of specific remedies, but they do say
Speaker 2: things like borax, calculus, petroleum cpo, tabacum.
Speaker 1: Dude, So we're going to hear from so many people
Speaker 1: just for having even uttered the word homeopathy.
Speaker 2: Is that how you say it? Homeopathy?
Speaker 1: No, it goes both ways. Okay, Yeah, I know, I mean,
Speaker 1: nothing drives people more crazy than that. I know they're
Speaker 1: going to go berserk mark my word.
Speaker 2: Because it's not you know, well, well I said that
Speaker 2: that take it or leave it basically. Yeah, some people
Speaker 2: swear by it. Yeah, man, some people think it's uh.
Speaker 1: From what I have ever seen, it's like the biggest
Speaker 1: flash point like of anything, of anything that skeptics talk about.
Speaker 1: Nothing drives them crazier than homeopathy. Yeah, yeah, like make
Speaker 1: some nuts. It's kind of funny to watch.
Speaker 2: It does, because then you people say you shouldn't even
Speaker 2: say Western versus Eastern medicine. You should say proven science
Speaker 2: versus like witchcraft.
Speaker 1: Did people say that on Facebook?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they get really like, you shouldn't even say say it.
Speaker 1: I said, you can't say it. Don't even say it?
Speaker 2: Josh, what else?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm making fun of you.
Speaker 2: Mind body medicine, biofeedback, training, and relaxation. They did a
Speaker 2: study of fifty five pilots who had to stop flying
Speaker 2: due to motion sickness, which, by the way, I didn't
Speaker 2: know that, Like that frightens me just knowing that that.
Speaker 1: A pilot can get motion say yeah, but think about
Speaker 1: it for the pilot. That's like career ending. Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know.
Speaker 2: Seventy six percent of them got over their motion sickness
Speaker 2: and were able to return to work after biofeedback training
Speaker 2: and relaxation programs. So basically they sit in that tilta whirl,
Speaker 2: bring it on, and then biofeedback instruments record temperature, muscle tension,
Speaker 2: and they use relaxation techniques and mental imagery in the
Speaker 2: chair and over time, it's sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy,
Speaker 2: which is another thing that they use, which is like,
Speaker 2: you know, get in the chair right and do it
Speaker 2: until right. It doesn't affect you any exposure therapy, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's this guy named Sam Puma who's a physician and
Speaker 1: aeronautics engineer. I think maybe at the very least, he's
Speaker 1: worked in the aerospace industry for a really long time,
Speaker 1: and he has come up with some habituation exercises where
Speaker 1: basically you kind of mildly expose your body to the
Speaker 1: kind of movements it's going to expect on like a
Speaker 1: space shuttle or whatever ahead of your trip, and you can,
Speaker 1: he says, you can be prepared and not have any
Speaker 1: motion sickness and as little as a weak huh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I guess it checks.
Speaker 2: Out, yeah, because it sounds like, you know, come on,
Speaker 2: what's this guy selling me?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But then the Atlantic author she said, you know, no,
Speaker 2: apparently it's a real thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then another good tip that I saw was, if
Speaker 2: you're in a car and you're not driving, pretend like
Speaker 2: you're driving. You might feel silly, but you know, pretend
Speaker 2: like you're driving, maybe even to your hands and anticipate
Speaker 2: the curves and things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe give them a little horn, a little imaginary
Speaker 1: horn once an order.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The reason why the best seat in a car
Speaker 1: is the drivers because you can anticipate the movements the
Speaker 1: car is gonna make. Yeah, which supports sway theory if
Speaker 1: you think about it, true because you can counteract it.
Speaker 2: Do you ever have one of those passengers in your
Speaker 2: car that hits the fake brake because they're nervous. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's like just an involuntary action. You see them stomp
Speaker 2: their foot on the floorboard. It's pretty funny. I have
Speaker 2: one friend in particular that does that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, uh, let's see. I guess that's it, right,
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. If you want to learn more
Speaker 1: about motion sickness, you can type those words in the
Speaker 1: search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com. And since I said
Speaker 1: search bar, it's time for the listener mayl.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this fond sid to to Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: love the show. I'm a two two maker who knew,
Speaker 2: but you know.
Speaker 1: Somebody makes them. Sure they don't just grow on trees.
Speaker 2: Not anymore. I'm a two two maker and work alone
Speaker 2: in my studio a lot making tutus. You guys are
Speaker 2: my company and thank you for that. Also have a
Speaker 2: Bachelor of Science in ornamental horticulture, so listening to the
Speaker 2: Bonce episode reminded me of an experience ad with a
Speaker 2: bonsai master in a class I had in college. The
Speaker 2: professor covered the art of bonsai leading up to this
Speaker 2: man's visit. He covered the art, meticulous decisions made in
Speaker 2: the shaping of the tree, etc. The day came when
Speaker 2: the master was there to speak with us. We came
Speaker 2: into class and all of his amazing work was displayed
Speaker 2: around the classroom. It was really beautiful. Everyone sort of
Speaker 2: spoke about it in hush stones, very reverent to each other. Finally,
Speaker 2: the master, who was a rather tiny Japanese man, was
Speaker 2: ready to demonstrate the technique for us. He unpotted the
Speaker 2: plant in front of him, spoke about the shape and
Speaker 2: what he felt would be the best way to train it,
Speaker 2: and after this, he pulled out a club the size
Speaker 2: of a baseball bat and beat the crap out of
Speaker 2: the root ball planning the need to control the plant,
Speaker 2: and no one knew exactly how to react. I had
Speaker 2: not thought about that for a really long time, and
Speaker 2: I listened to the show chuckling the whole time because
Speaker 2: of it. I thought you might appreciate the story that
Speaker 2: is from Nancy Gallagher, the Twutu maker.
Speaker 1: Well thanks a lot, Nancy.
Speaker 2: Maybe he was just trying to get the dirt away
Speaker 2: from the roots, I don't know, or.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was he was just messing with him the
Speaker 1: bad bonds. I, mister Miagi would never do that.
Speaker 2: I worked with Pat Marita. Did I mention that on
Speaker 2: the show? No?
Speaker 1: Was it?
Speaker 2: He did a music video that I worked on, Karate
Speaker 2: Kid Spoof. Oh oh yeah, alien Ant Farm and I
Speaker 2: worked with him and he was super nice and it
Speaker 2: was just a couple of years before he died.
Speaker 1: He's dead. Oh yeah, that's a shame.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he liked the white wine.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think you told me the story before it,
Speaker 1: so I was familiar.
Speaker 2: I had to go fetch them some chardonnay. It like noon.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, how was Pat Marina
Speaker 2: on the set of the music video? Sure, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: I'd have a pa, fetch me some shardonay too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Remember he played Al, the replacement Al Arnold on
Speaker 1: Happy Days. Arnold Al was the name of the actor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, from California. Pat Marita.
Speaker 1: What's that to do with it?
Speaker 2: Nothing?
Speaker 1: Oh that was an additional fact. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just mean some people might see the karate kid
Speaker 2: and only know that and think he's from Japan, right,
Speaker 2: but he was putting on that accent. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a California dude, totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like laid back kind of Oh yeah, shardonay guy.
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about Pat Marita or
Speaker 1: get in touch with us or whatever, you can send
Speaker 1: off for more info to SYSK podcast on Twitter or
Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can join us on Facebook, dot com
Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an
Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at houstuffworks dot com and has
Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web. Stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot Com.
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