WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Digital Immortality, Part Two 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.480 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.279 John and Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.840 Radio and how the Tech are Young. It's time for 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:25.799 a tech Stuff classic episode. This episode originally published on 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.680 July two thousand and fifteen. It is titled Digital Immortality, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.760 Part to the Great Josh Clark of Stuff you should 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:39.760 know joined the show for this one. Hope you enjoy. Say, 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:44.040 you could conceivably create a really a great simulation of 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.159 an individual person's brain, and it started making connections and 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:54.200 it became a better version of the organic brain. That's 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.080 a separate thing. How is it connected to the organic 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.600 brain so that you don't just have the experience of 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.640 the organic brain and the experience of the AI brain. Right, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.720 how are they connected to that they're sharing experience because 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.319 without that connection, without that shared experience, you have, for 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.880 all intents and purposes, two separate individuals. Right. It's bringing 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:19.760 them together so that we really are translated into a 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:24.360 digital version of ourselves. That that is this this step 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.760 that guys like Curse Wile and everybody else is talking 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.640 about this just completely walk past. Well, yeah, the the 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.520 I mean, if you nailed them down and said, can 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.440 you explain this? I think the explaination would get would 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.160 be kind of a non explanation, which is that at 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.200 the time you reach the sophistication, the technological sophistication capable 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.400 of simulating a brain to the extent that it would 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.680 be useful in this way, we would have a brain 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:55.040 computer interface that would allow for the bidirectional communication. I 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.120 realized that you do not curse on this show. We 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.160 don't curse on my show either. But that's the hockey. Yes, yeah, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.040 that's what they call Strickland magical thinking, I would argue. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.040 And I realized, I certainly can't go so far as 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:10.680 to I wouldn't go so far as to call it 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.840 magical thinking in the sense that we have brain computer 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.800 interfaces now, they're just very primitive. So the question is, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.240 could we get to a level of sophistication where it 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.640 was where we shared consciousness. Yeah, that's what we're talking 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:29.120 about here, And and I realized that it would it 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.960 would be a disadvantage to humanity to nail down the 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.400 futurists and be like, no, no, no, don't you dare 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:39.160 make a prediction unless you can exactly lay out how 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.440 it's going to happen. That's not what they do. So 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.200 I don't necessarily have a problem with futurists. I have 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.640 a problem with the people who write about what futurists 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:52.440 are saying, as if it's going to happen regardless, because 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.320 there's there here's one. This drives me crazy. It was 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.120 a kurtswild prediction, just a random stuff. Like everything that 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.120 guy says gets s right and understandably. So it's an 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.960 interesting dude, and he has interesting thoughts and interesting visions. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.560 But he said recently that um by humans will be cyborgs. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.000 Our brains will be jacked into the Internet, will be 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.680 able to say, we want to think about Wikipedia page, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:18.520 we will be there. It will be in our minds 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.480 that Wikipedia page. We will have that level of brain 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:27.400 computer interface, that we are the sum total of human knowledge. Yes, well, 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.960 somebody did try to nail him down, or he he 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.600 volunteered in this talk, whatever it was. I just read 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.840 an article on it um and he says that there's 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:41.480 going to be DNA based nano robots that will basically 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.880 enter our core texas and connect us to um A, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.600 an artificial cortex that the Internet is based on that, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.960 that's how it will happen. It's like, well, that is 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:58.640 really neat and dandy. How how if you put on something, 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.600 if you say that something's gonna happen th teen years out, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:06.640 just just saying well, DNA nanobots, that's how Like, that's 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.120 at the same level as as taking a human brain 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.240 now and plugging it into a USB cable and expecting 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.840 something to happen. I would I would totally agree with 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:20.600 you on that, absolutely agree with you on that because uh, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.440 and and knowing what Here's another problem is that we've 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:29.320 got people who are very brilliant there. They're clearly intelligent people. However, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.240 you know they're intelligent and focused on specific parts of 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.919 general knowledge and don't necessarily possess other elements of knowledge 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.159 that would be really important to have before you make 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.760 definitive statements and predictions, Like neuroscientists will often say things 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.440 that you know, the physicists may say one thing, but 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.719 neuroscientists believe another thing, Like physicists say maybe there are 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.840 some quantum effects going on in the brain, and neuroscientists 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:02.880 saying that's not really what we think is happening. And 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.920 because there's so much we do not know. Making any 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.279 sort of prediction of something that is definitely going to 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.320 happen when you say it's definitely gonna happen is kind 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.720 of foolish, you know, it's it's it again, probably falls 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.760 under the category of wishful thinking, particularly in the case 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.720 with Kurtswil, who again, brilliant guy. But I agree with you. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.479 I think I think trying to explain say it nanobots, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:29.679 it's almost akin to saying magic, Yes, it's the especially 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.360 since right now, as far as we know, nanobots are 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:37.720 probably well beyond our ability to make on any kind 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.880 of truly sophisticated level, like the nanotechnology we talk about today. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.360 We're talking about nanoparticles that you can guide externally through 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:51.800 stuff like ultrasonic frequencies or magnetic fields. But they're not robots, like, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:56.279 they're not autonomous or even remote controlled items that can 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:57.520 go to where you want them to go and do 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.200 what you want them to do that level of sophistic case. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.039 And I think as well, beyond fifteen years out, I 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.600 can't imagine us getting there. And also I think another 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.960 issue I have is that a lot of these futurists 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.720 based their assumptions on things like Moore's law. Yes, strictly, 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.000 And I could hug you right now, man, Yes, you 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.960 can't base any sort of arrogant prediction on Moore's law. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.440 It has as much veracity as Murphy's law. Yeah, man, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.680 I'm so More's law was originally just an observation. It 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.680 wasn't and it was a decade long observation prediction for 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:37.200 a decade. Yeah. You got Gordon Moore who said, it 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.919 looks like every two years what we're going to reach 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.200 is the uh, the sophistication and the economic condition where 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.000 it'll be possible to half the size of transistors, double 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.640 the number of transistors on a square inch of silicon. 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.480 And how how you put that is whether you're a 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.599 glass is half full or half empty kind of person. 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.200 But and he was looking at it as saying, you know, 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.040 it's not just the technological sophistication. It's also the fact 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:07.760 that our our manufacturing ability will reach a point where 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.920 it makes sense to do it. And it was never 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.200 meant to be something that would exist in perpetuity. It 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.840 was meant that, I like, at least for the foreseeable future, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.960 this is going to continue until we run up to 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.760 some sort of fundamental block, and we're getting real close 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.360 to that fundamental block now. In fact, a lot of engineers, 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.360 uh including More, have said that this is this is 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.840 the days of Moore's law are close to an end. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.600 But they have been saying that for a very long time. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.640 Now they have and when part of the reason that 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.120 they've been able to to push it off is that 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.360 we've kind of redefined More's laws. No longer the number 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.520 of transistors. Now we sort of understand it as the 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.440 processing power of a chip tends to double every two years, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.600 which you can do both with architecture and with the 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.880 optimization of that architecture. So that's kind of what in 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.320 hell does They'll they'll do things well, they'll shrink down 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.440 elements in one move, and then the next move they 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.240 figure out how the what's the best architecture for those 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.920 elements to take the best advantage of what they've done. 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.200 So it's a tick they called the TikTok approach. The 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.200 tick is where they shrink everything down, the talk is 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.240 where they optimize it, and then the next tick they 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.520 shrink stuff down again, talk they optimize it. Yeah, so 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.640 it helps extend More's law because they don't always have 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.360 to get smaller and smaller, and once you get to 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.120 a certain size, you run into quantum effects that totally 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.160 ruin the way electronics work. So the reason why we're 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.000 even bringing this up is that you cannot count on 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.200 the technological sophistication to continue at the same rate it 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.040 has been going. No, but these guys who are all 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.560 about digital immortality are basing all of their assumptions on 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.360 the idea that Moore's law will keep going like this. Yeah, well, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.680 and only that they're they're applying the same sort of 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.439 idea of Moore's law to other disciplines, and they're treating 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.840 it as if it is an actual scientific law, and 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.600 they're they're kind of bandying it about as if it 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.680 is and as if it proves that their predictions will 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.880 come true, which I mean, like, I love Moore's law, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.600 but I would feel a lot better about it if 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.920 it was called like Moore's really good idea or just 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.040 or just the general observation of more, you know, because 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.920 it really again, it was an observation and then a 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.560 prediction based on that observation. But it was it wasn't 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.360 Gordon More who called it Moore's law. He doesn't. No, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.679 he didn't care for that. He was like, let's not 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.560 called the law, guys, it's too late. Um well, that's 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.840 That's one of the big things is that if More's 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.520 law doesn't hold true, then this sets everything back. And 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.880 if Moore's law, and since you can't apply More's law 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.200 to things like neuroscience, the discoveries and neuroscience happen on 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.960 a totally different time scale. Yeah, like inspiration doesn't happen 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.360 on any kind of plotted charge. So that that's another 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.679 thing to keep in mind is that maybe they're predictions 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.280 are sort of accurate, but not for the time scale. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.920 It maybe that it's much further out than what they anticipate. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.160 In fact, I would be shocked if that's not the case, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.319 based upon what little I know about these other disciplines. 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.000 We'll be back with more of this classic episode of 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:30.559 tech stuff after this quick break. Okay, well, let's let's 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.719 go ahead and just say, Josh, just for the sake 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.040 of argument, let's say that this world does come about 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:42.120 where digital immortality it's possible. It's a thing, we can 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:47.040 do it. The trouble doesn't stop there. There's some other 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:52.080 big issues happening. So now can you imagine a world 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.040 where there is now an option for you to move 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.480 yourself over into a digital immortality phase. Maybe it doesn't 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.520 even involve leaving your body. Maybe it involves getting an implant, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.680 and then that takes over and your body will live 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.200 for as long as it can. And then after that 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.680 you could even port that intelligence which is you, into 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.000 some other body, whether it's a robot or maybe even 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.520 sort of free form where you could flow into all 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.160 sorts of different electronics. I even saw one suggestion saying, like, 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.280 in this science fiction future, you could get behind the 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.719 wheel of a car, but you don't really get behind 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.800 the wheel of a car. You become the car, like 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.760 that sort of stuff. All right, do you imagine that 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.200 that would be available to everybody day one? Yeah? Yeah, 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.160 And you make a good point in this article. It's 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:44.640 like talk about some sort of disparity experience here on 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.000 Earth between the halves and they have not yea and 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.560 the hals, and you talk about the huge gap and 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.640 haves and have nots that already exists. Imagine a world 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.200 where not only is that gap there, but it's exacerbated 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.199 by the fact that now the halves live forever. Yeah, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.720 I think about the grim thing that people have every 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.880 time Dick Cheney gets a new heart and get to 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.160 like an extra like ten twenty years, that's just a 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.440 new heart. Like, imagine if people like that or anybody 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.720 who is wealthy, was able to become immortal and it 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.000 was only available to them because it was so prohibitively expensive, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.240 as I think you rightly point out, would definitely be 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.480 the case at first. And you know, not to get 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.800 too political, but I would imagine that this would be 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.680 a world where you would see it even stronger push 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.520 towards protecting the status of those who have things, because 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.600 now they're in it forever. Right. It's it's not even 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.560 I want this protected for as long as I live now, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:48.040 it's I want this to be protected forever. Um. You 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.680 could also make the argument that maybe that would mean 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.600 those people would also become way more interested in taking 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.040 better care of the planet because they're going to be 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.200 there forever. I think it would be one of the 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.800 benefits of this is that it would extend long term 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.360 thinking about about the future of humanity, the future of Earth. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.120 I think that would just be an inevitable byproduct of Yeah, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.720 because you're going to experience it if you're in that 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.320 if you're in that elite, then you are going to 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.079 experience that. So therefore it does benefit you to think 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.240 about these things. You can't just focus on the short 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.600 term gain anymore. Now It's like I'm going to years. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.200 Who cares about anything? After that? Dead? Who cares? Yeah? 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.520 Yeah right? And and like for me, I'm like, well, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.520 I don't have kids, so I don't even have that 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.640 I think about you barely care about this moment. Honestly, 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.719 I stopped caring about five minutes into this episode. But no, 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.400 it's just kidding. But yeah, that's That's one of those things, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.319 is that we're talking about a potential divide, not just 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.480 in uh in the haves and have nots as far 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.200 as like a single country. But let's say that this 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.400 technology is developed in one part of the world that 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.079 immediately is going to cause issues too, because you've got 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.400 the rest of the world. Nobody wants to I think 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.319 it's pretty safe to say that most people don't want 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.720 to die. Most people like the idea of being able 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:11.080 to at least live as long as they want to live, right, Like, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.480 they get the option to say maybe maybe eternity is 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.440 not what I really want, but I would like the 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.160 opportunity to live as long as I want to live 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.480 before deciding to no longer live, right, Like, even that 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.280 could be a case. It could be that when we 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.800 talk about immortality, we're really just talking about you get 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.240 to decide when you go. Well, you know, I read 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.080 an interesting article about that that's saying like, if we 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.840 are going to do this, don't forget to also include 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.760 some sort of suicide switch. Because if you become digitally 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.160 immortal and you have no way of ceasing to exist, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.840 I mean, what happens when you want to cease to 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.280 exist and you can't do anything about it? Yeah, that 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.920 that would be a totally new type of torture. Sure, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.040 And that was another part of that same article, I 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.000 think it was in the Atlantic um there where they said, well, 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.640 what is a life sentence? Like, yeah, you know, and 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.760 if you if you do something wrong in the future 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.360 generation decides that you've done something wrong and you should 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.960 be punished, Well, you're still around for that future generation 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.320 to punish you. And how long will that last? And 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.920 what does it look like? Other considerations? Who owns the 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.480 who owns the brain? Because if if you are comporting 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.120 yourself over into some digital format, presumably there's some hardware 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:31.040 and software involved. Who owns that experience? Does it? Does 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.880 it revert to the person that was the original individual? 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.440 Does it revert to the hardware that it exists upon. 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.920 Does it revert to the software that makes it possible? 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.000 This sounds like a silly question, but it's it's not. 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.560 In the people who are able to patent genes human genes, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.480 you have to figure out like, well, how how do 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.520 you say, let me correct myself before you get a 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.280 bunch of listener mail who are able to patent genetic 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.480 processes that are the results of genes Because the human 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.320 genes discussion was eventually said no, you can't, you can't 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.520 patent gene but through the late eighties I would have 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:11.320 been right, yeah uh. And also, going back to cultural issues, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.240 even if you assume that everyone has access to this, 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.120 what does that mean for religions? A large part of 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:22.360 many religions happens to be about the experience that comes 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.200 after death. That that, in fact, a lot of religions 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.760 suggests that the life here on earth is merely preparation 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.720 for what comes next. But if you extend that that 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.560 life indefinitely. What does that mean from a religious standpoint. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.920 It's a tough question to answer. I can't answer it, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.040 but it's you know, it's another one of those things 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.200 where we get these philosophical uh problems that come in. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.480 There are other ones to like, let's say that you 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.440 are able to extend your life span indefinitely, what happens 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.960 to population? I saw you, I saw this in this article, 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.280 and I don't think that there's that much of an 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.800 issue here because think about it, if we all live 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:06.480 in a non corporeal form, that's the key though, that's 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.399 non corporeal, but digital immortality might be allowed if we have, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.560 like I said, an implant in our heads. Oh well, 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.959 then there will be body. I mean, that will be 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.919 your status symbol that you own your own body and 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.960 there's not a hundred other people in your body with you. Yeah, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.440 that'll be trying to make decisions about where to go 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.919 to dinner, what to get at. It just becomes a 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.840 really really extreme version of all of me. Another Steve Martin, Yes, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.639 that was a good one. Lily Tomlin was in that. Um. Yeah, 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.840 So it's it's there are a lot of philosophical questions 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.800 that we would have to come to grips with if 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.520 this were in fact ever to become a reality. They 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.240 never happen. Yeah, And I'm not I'm not poo pooing 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.440 the possibility. I'm not saying that definitely is not going 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.560 to happen. I don't believe that we know enough about 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.520 things to say that it never will. I also don't 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:00.800 believe we know enough about things to say it definitely will, 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:05.479 or especially the definitely will by Yeah. Now, in his defense, 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.879 he was saying that we would be cyborgs and that 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:09.920 we would be able to interface with the internet just 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.080 using our as opposed to being truly immortal. He's talking 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.960 more about Yeah, and even then, that's still one eight 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.800 maybe of that singularity. Right, We've got more to say 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.240 in this classic episode of tech Stuff. After these quick messages, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:34.439 I ran into a couple of things that we're kind 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.600 of interesting while getting ready for this podcast, and I 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.680 kind of wanted to sort of conclude on this. So 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.480 while we're nowhere close to the point where we can 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.879 pour the brain over into some digital format and live forever, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.320 where continuity really isn't an issue yet because we don't 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.680 have the we don't even have the basis to work 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.240 with as uh let alone the figuring out how to 0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:00.080 port stuff over. There are people working on ways to 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:07.520 share who you are beyond your lifespan, and one of 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.560 them I ran into. In fact, I've signed up for 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.959 the beta, but it hasn't it's still on the alpha 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.000 part yet, so it's down. The beta is a service 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.280 called it turna dot me, so a turn and me 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.000 is a website and it essentially is going to scrub 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:29.040 your social presence on the web to get an idea 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.960 of who you are. The idea being that eventually it 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.639 would create an avatar that could act as you do, 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.680 you know, guided by all the experiences you share with it, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.040 as you as you just be you online. The person 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.560 behind it I believe the name is Sunshine. Actually, Um 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.480 says that it would probably take ten years for the 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:58.119 algorithm to kind of learn your you know, how you 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.520 are you before it could react in a way that 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.880 seemed to be similar. At least ten years, I think 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.840 they they say, the longer, the better is the impression. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.320 And there's actually kind of a sad part of the 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.080 story too, that that he's been contacted by a lot 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.960 of people who UM are suffering from terminal illnesses, and 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.720 they're looking at this as a way of being able 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.200 to share memories with other people after they have gone. 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.520 He says, you know, it's really hard to deal with 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.280 those requests because honestly, the technology isn't at a level 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:33.159 of sophistication where it could just adapt that quickly. But 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.560 it is an interesting notion. No, in this case, obviously, 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:40.639 the immortality is more about your your influence here on 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.360 the planet. After you have gone, you are still gone, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:50.000 but what you leave behind continues to influence others. And 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.320 that's very poetic way of looking at immortality. It's not 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.199 the way Woody Allen looked at it, you know, he 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.200 was always says, I don't want to achieve immortality through 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.800 my work. I want to achieve it by not dying, um. 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.040 But immortality through work or through uh your interactions with 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.640 other people. That is something And you know, you could 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.560 argue that, you know, like the poem was it as 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.160 it Azimandias, where essentially you're like, look at this enormous 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.920 monument I built that was going to stand the test 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.479 of time and show how powerful I am, and now 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.280 it's fallen over and it's crumbled and uh and and 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:27.080 thus the Hubrists of the past proves to be unfounded. Uh. 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.960 I still think that this is a very kind of 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.679 poetic way of of at least showing people that you 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.600 care for them, even if it, even if it is 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.240 a little weird on the artificial intelligence doing it on 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.880 your behalf, You will never get rid of me in 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.040 my Facebook posts. Yeah, and I had posted in the 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.320 in the or I wrote in the article about Brian Brushwood, 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.040 and I even had Brushwood on this show and I 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.159 asked him about this. Yeah, this was years ago, and 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.080 it was an idea he had had. I don't know 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.840 that he ever actually implemented it, but his idea was 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:05.280 to create a very simple algorithm that would copy previous 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.800 posts he had made online and post on his behalf 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:11.960 after he dies. The idea being that every year, on 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.360 his birthday, he would be prompted to send a message 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.679 to this account, and if he did not do it 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.359 within a certain amount of time, it would activate and 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.160 start posting for him, so that even after he had died, 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.400 the ghost in the machine version of him would continue 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:30.479 to update Twitter or Facebook. So I wonder how often 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.520 like the appropriateness in the context of it would be 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.320 so off that it would be like a Horsey Books 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.560 tweet or something like that. Yeah, where you you know, 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:43.720 like especially you know, especially if something really tragic had happened, 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:49.320 like like big Newsworthy tragic event happens and then yeah 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.400 and like yeah exactly, or or you know, like let's 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.320 say that there was a huge fire that broke out 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.680 in Texas, which is where he lives. Like let's say 0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:59.960 there's an enormous fire and then it's just like man, 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.320 and it sure is hot today, or something like that. 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.320 That would be it would be like, Wow, that's an 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:08.040 incredibly poor taste, although to be fairer, Brian would probably 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.280