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Speaker 1: Your path is really really interesting. First, like picking into

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Speaker 1: why you why you wrote a book? What's ironic, Doug,

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Speaker 1: Because as you know, most people who write books, you know,

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Speaker 1: are actually able to read books. But that's never been

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Speaker 1: uh necessarily a long suit. But hey, I've been approached before.

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Speaker 1: Uh And I never really kind of brought into the idea,

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Speaker 1: in part because you know, I had a real job then,

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Speaker 1: so that when the season ended, you know, I kind

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Speaker 1: of had to go back and do it, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't really have time to devote to it and you know,

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Speaker 1: to be really candid, and I don't think anyone would

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Speaker 1: ever accuse me of, you know, having a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, false humility, but like I never really thought

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Speaker 1: did but he would buy it, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't read a book about me, Like why should

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Speaker 1: somebody buy it? But I just I disagree. I disagree.

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Speaker 1: You know. Here here's the thing which it's interesting. You know,

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Speaker 1: it used to really bother me when I when I

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Speaker 1: was at ESPN, when people would take what I felt

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Speaker 1: like were personal shots at you, and it was because

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Speaker 1: you had discovered And that's what I want to I

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Speaker 1: want to get to the process of how you got there.

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Speaker 1: You had discovered this kind of niche in cottage industry, right,

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Speaker 1: and you were like the guy and you carried carried

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Speaker 1: very little, if any bias into how you did what

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Speaker 1: you did. And when I say very little, it's it's

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Speaker 1: because anything that you know, like, I don't assume bias,

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Speaker 1: but I do understand that location, correct, We're all that.

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Speaker 1: That's my point, Like you just you just found you

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Speaker 1: found a lane and he took it. And yeah, anybody,

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Speaker 1: how anybody could have any sort of problem with that?

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Speaker 1: To me was just like what are we? What are

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Speaker 1: we doing here? So I think it is fascinating because

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Speaker 1: that's what this podcast is all about. It's it's about basketball,

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Speaker 1: but everybody's path and everybody's joy, you know, everybody's journey.

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Speaker 1: And you know, uh, my dad was armand Kitayan wrote

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Speaker 1: a book called Raw Recruits. It's a tremendous book. And

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Speaker 1: there's what we said in the beginning of the interview,

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Speaker 1: like I I have read some books including that. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know that's the fake self deprecating bullshit that I

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Speaker 1: don't have time for it. But anyway, because I know

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Speaker 1: you're actually a brilliant dude. Um so uh but Armacintayan

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Speaker 1: wrote wrote and and it it still bothers me, but

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Speaker 1: it's actually very accurate. So sometimes the truth does hurt.

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Speaker 1: He wrote about my dad. My dad was in the

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Speaker 1: in the book. And when I was in sixth grade,

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Speaker 1: I got to join a team and played for a

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Speaker 1: national championship and we wanted and I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was very close. And the way it worked was you

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Speaker 1: got to take We lost in Southern California Championships and

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Speaker 1: the winning team got to take two players from the

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Speaker 1: team they beat to go travel within the nationals. So

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Speaker 1: they took me and they took a guy named Lorenzo Liloa.

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Speaker 1: And Lorenzo at the time was you know, he's Samoan kid.

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Speaker 1: He was already physically developed. He's like sixt whatever. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: So his like recruitment as a sixth grader was part

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Speaker 1: of Armand's book, right. So he wrote about my dad

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Speaker 1: that basketball was a game that my dad loved. It

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Speaker 1: didn't love it back, and I thought and I thought

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Speaker 1: it was um it was accurate in that it didn't necessarily,

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Speaker 1: you know, he didn't have financial riches from it, but

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Speaker 1: it fulfilled my dad, like you know, make he had

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Speaker 1: a he had an MBHA from from Colombia, and he

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Speaker 1: could have taken over his his dad's car dealership, but

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to. He wanted to be a basketball coach, right.

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Speaker 1: That fulfilled him. Um, it just didn't fulfill him financially.

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Speaker 1: And I would say ultimately, you know, in the wins

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Speaker 1: and lost column when he was a Division one coach,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't successful. But the point is that like the

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Speaker 1: sport doesn't always love you back, it just does. That's

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Speaker 1: just not the way it works. But that shouldn't stop

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Speaker 1: you from shouldn't stop you been trying to love it

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Speaker 1: in return. And basketball is a game that you love intensely, intensely,

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Speaker 1: and you found a way to make it love you

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Speaker 1: back on some some order. And that that that's anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's that's where that quote kind of sticks out with me. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you grew up where I grew up in Philly,

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Speaker 1: and you know, went to college in Philly, and you know,

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Speaker 1: looking back and like we're all smarter now than we

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Speaker 1: were five years ago and ten years ago and twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, and like I didn't know it at the time.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't smart enough to to see it at the time.

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Speaker 1: But because of the where I was, like majoring in

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Speaker 1: college basketball, because of the Big Five, Villanova, Temple, St. Joe,

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Speaker 1: LESSU Pen all playing in one building. Like imagine that,

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Speaker 1: like if all the D one schools and whatever city

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Speaker 1: you're in all played in the same place like five

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Speaker 1: nights a week and brought in all the teams from

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Speaker 1: all the leagues that they played in, and you were

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Speaker 1: this little student reporter and you got a press pass

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Speaker 1: and like, oh my god, there's Patrick Ewing playing against Villanova,

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Speaker 1: and there's you know, Digger bringing uh notre Daon play

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Speaker 1: Little sal and Jimmy Lynam and Paul Weston. I mean

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Speaker 1: you name it, like like I I didn't know it then,

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Speaker 1: but and obviously I wasn't ever gonna play at any

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Speaker 1: level or even coach. I mean, I couldn't drow up

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Speaker 1: an inbounds play. But what what what I could do

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Speaker 1: was interact with the media, and print media was saying

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Speaker 1: at that point in time, that late seventies, early eighties,

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Speaker 1: and I looked around and I said, hey, maybe I

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Speaker 1: could be one of those guys and lo and behold,

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Speaker 1: you know, like we didn't know about ESPN then it

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Speaker 1: was barely alive. We didn't know about the Internet because

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Speaker 1: hadn't happened yet much less you know, digital content and

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Speaker 1: repurposing across platforms and you know all this stuff that

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Speaker 1: we do now, right, and we take for granted, But

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Speaker 1: it was a training grant. It was an incubator of sorts.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, was I able to um take

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Speaker 1: advantage of the introductions that were made on my behalf

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Speaker 1: by people who took me under their wing. Absolutely, But like,

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Speaker 1: doesn't that happen in any walk of life with successful people.

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Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed of that. I'm proud of that, and

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Speaker 1: and you know it, it's really cool. And then later

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Speaker 1: on getting to work with literally hundreds of really talented,

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Speaker 1: smart sports people, you're one of them. I missed those days,

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Speaker 1: I missed some of our battles on the air because

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Speaker 1: you were so damn informed that you were not an

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Speaker 1: easy mark like some other people. But uh, you know it,

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Speaker 1: it has been a Walter Middy like far As Gump

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Speaker 1: like even experience. And and to to tell that story

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Speaker 1: in the book, which I think is where we started

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Speaker 1: this part of the conversation, right is like the the

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Speaker 1: co author, good really good guy, Dave Smile out of

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Speaker 1: Kansas City. He had to convince me that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna be like, you know, Joe Lanardi was born at

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Speaker 1: a very young age, very close to his mother, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and it

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Speaker 1: would be about this thing that we all love, this

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Speaker 1: phenomena of which bracketology quite literally has become but pretty

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Speaker 1: big part. And there was no plan for that. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't this is not self deficatd like I don't make

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Speaker 1: business plans, Like I don't know how to do that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I just kind of okay, So, so how did

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Speaker 1: you go from you're covering you're covering these games in

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia to bracketology? Like when when was the first time

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Speaker 1: that you have How did it? How the lightbulb go

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Speaker 1: off and you somebody else what happened? There was a

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Speaker 1: bridge that that that was crossed, and it was like

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Speaker 1: a lot of these things turned out to be you know,

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Speaker 1: accidental and then unintended consequences. Right. I got affiliated with

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Speaker 1: the Blue Ribbon College basketball year book. And for anybody

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know about it, you know, back again in

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Speaker 1: the day before the internet and and and it's still

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Speaker 1: very good now it's still very good, right. And what

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Speaker 1: Blue Ribbon is is like to call it a preseason

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Speaker 1: magazine is really a disservice, right, Like it's a phone book.

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Speaker 1: Like we didn't spend any money on pictures or graphics

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Speaker 1: or anything fancy. It was meat and potatoes of every

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Speaker 1: team in the country. And Chris Wallace, who founded it,

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Speaker 1: who's now you know, for reasons I can't quite fully

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Speaker 1: explain still GM NBA, God love him. Uh. He brought

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Speaker 1: me on as an editor. Well, first as my first

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Speaker 1: assignment one summer, I covered the Ivy League, okay, and

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Speaker 1: then and then it went on to become an editor

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Speaker 1: and then a managing editor. And I was assigning writers

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Speaker 1: all around the country to cover leagues and places I

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Speaker 1: never heard of. That's how I met Andy Katz. He

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Speaker 1: he wrote for Blue Ribbon. So like, yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: like Andy and you think he gets too much exposure,

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Speaker 1: it's my fault. Uh. And and then when when when

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Speaker 1: Chris Wallace, you know, was easy at and beginning to

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Speaker 1: work in various NBA roles, the Heat and and and

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Speaker 1: then the Celtics and then the Grizzlies, I took it

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Speaker 1: over in the early nineties, and uh, you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a large subscriber base, but the people who did

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Speaker 1: subscribe were the people in the sport, right, and that

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Speaker 1: was a good thing. Uh. And and because we could

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Speaker 1: never seem to grow the base beyond the junkies in

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Speaker 1: the hardcore fans in the beginning of the year, because like,

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Speaker 1: even people who really like college baseball, most of them

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Speaker 1: don't want to read a four hundred page book in October, right,

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Speaker 1: they just don't. No, But it's it's but it's a

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Speaker 1: reference book, you know, if you're doing a game, if

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Speaker 1: you get like even today, I'll get like I was

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Speaker 1: talking to Dave Revson yesterday, right, are all buddy, and

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Speaker 1: He's like, if I have, you know, Wisconsin against Arkansas

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Speaker 1: Pine Bluff, what do I do on November six? I

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Speaker 1: pick up Blue Ribbon today today? And my invention, if

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Speaker 1: you will, was I took to Chris Wallace, who would

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Speaker 1: still a financial partner, and Chris Steorge, my my working partner,

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Speaker 1: who's running it now and still doing a great job.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, Doug Um, I said, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: the audience is the postseason. If we could somehow do

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Speaker 1: a tournament preview when the bracket comes out, give it

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Speaker 1: the full group blue ribbon. You know, depth of attention,

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Speaker 1: Like is there a window between in those days Sunday

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Speaker 1: night at six o'clock and Thursday at noon to get

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Speaker 1: something in people's hands, because you know, there was no

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Speaker 1: like emailing a PDF or you know, kindling or or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like if if if you were assigned to Boise State,

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Speaker 1: you got one paragraph from small print in USA today,

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Speaker 1: that was it, and like we're like, we can do

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Speaker 1: better than that. And my job was to make that happen.

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Speaker 1: And it was a critical success. ESPN Book five books,

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Speaker 1: CBS boarded for all their on air people. Doug. I

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Speaker 1: looked up opening minute the tournament, there's nance at the

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Speaker 1: desk with my book, and I'm like, holy crap, like

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Speaker 1: this is maybe something right because I'm just this guy

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Speaker 1: in Philly did with nothing right. But we didn't make

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Speaker 1: any money because Mr Non Business Plan had its signed

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Speaker 1: like a hundred teams around the country. Because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know who was going to be in the field, and

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Speaker 1: we had to be ready to go to print right away.

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Speaker 1: So lightbulb, right, you know, uh huh. You sit back

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Speaker 1: after a fashion and go, well, suppose we can get

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Speaker 1: a hundred to eight or seventy or sixty four or

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Speaker 1: close to it, and we're not paying for all those

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Speaker 1: extra writers and printing and type setting and galley, you know,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff that goes into a hard copy product.

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Speaker 1: So bracketology really was an effort to make the book easier.

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Speaker 1: So me learning about how how they did it, how

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Speaker 1: they did it so that we wouldn't have to do

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Speaker 1: as much work. So I jokingly say, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was just laziness. No, it's okay. So of course it was,

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Speaker 1: so how did you Okay, so you have this idea.

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Speaker 1: This is what year? Uh the Chris and Chris and

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Speaker 1: I went to a Tennessee, Florida game at Thompson Bowling Arena. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The the would have been ninety five. We did the

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Speaker 1: first book in in in March of this was January,

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Speaker 1: and um, I said, I really think that we can

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Speaker 1: do this, uh and any it was really bumping the

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Speaker 1: first year or two, both the business side and fulfillment

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Speaker 1: and you know Dortch and Company working on that end

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Speaker 1: of it. Me in in in my office at St.

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Speaker 1: Joe's with like ten just hardcore people like you were,

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Speaker 1: me sitting there banging out stories and and keeping track

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Speaker 1: of conference Torment games all over the market and every

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Speaker 1: ESPN channel on on on these old you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: picture tube TVs and and literally you'll appreciate this, literally

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Speaker 1: me sitting there. I assigned a kid one year to

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Speaker 1: count the number of teams that Digger put into the

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Speaker 1: sweet sixteen talking about the run up. Right, there's a

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Speaker 1: switch xteam and you know, we love him, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: thirty seven and and you know, I finally get to

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Speaker 1: ESPN years later, and I tell him that story, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he was as gracious as you know we

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Speaker 1: all remember, and um and and then he'd be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it was, what arety? Where did you

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Speaker 1: get all these teams? I'm like, Digger, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how you do it, but I just get to sixty

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Speaker 1: four and stop, you know, because a little bit of

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Speaker 1: women and and uh that experience of learning the process,

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Speaker 1: and good lord, I look back now and I think

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Speaker 1: of all the things I didn't know right, Franklin, neither

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Speaker 1: did the committee right like they were. I was doing

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Speaker 1: a half fast job, but so were they. Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports radio dot

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Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

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Speaker 1: s R to listen live. But by the way, um,

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Speaker 1: Florida Tennessee that year, do you remember who won the game?

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Speaker 1: I think Florida did. They had Andrew Clark, yes, and

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Speaker 1: meat Hook. They went to the final four. They went

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Speaker 1: to the thought of four year before. Ye know there

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Speaker 1: was Lan Lan was a young coach. His little song

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Speaker 1: was on the bench member. Yeah, he's probably always went

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Speaker 1: to Florida. I almost went to Florida in Yeah, they stopped.

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Speaker 1: Tennessee was bad that year. That was I think that

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Speaker 1: was the first year of Kevin O'Neill being there. And

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Speaker 1: well and then what really really are obscure trivi After

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Speaker 1: the game, as we were sitting around yakking, uh, here

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Speaker 1: here comes the Tennessee women to practice, right, And I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know Pat something like she wouldn't know me at

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Speaker 1: that time, the late pet summit, and like I had

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Speaker 1: no idea that these big time women's programs had guys

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Speaker 1: practiced with their teams to beat on the girls, like

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Speaker 1: in the lane, you know, like if you can get

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Speaker 1: a rebound against you know this six six kids from

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Speaker 1: from you know, the intermural team then you can get

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Speaker 1: a rebound in the tournament. And I'm like, WHOA Like

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Speaker 1: I was really naive and wet behind the years uh

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Speaker 1: in in in that period. But then also around that time, Wallace,

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Speaker 1: Chris Wallace, during champ Week at ESPN was the guy

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Speaker 1: on the desk with Bob Lee. I didn't know that, okay,

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Speaker 1: And and Wallace said something like, you know, they were

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Speaker 1: starting a website which wasn't even called ESPN dot com.

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Speaker 1: It was called sports Zone out of Seattle, Washington. And

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Speaker 1: Wallace was like, you know, in his good old boy way,

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Speaker 1: you all ought to talk to Leonardi. He's got good stuff.

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Speaker 1: And and Howie Swab was involved in this conversation, believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. H and an editor who's still here

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Speaker 1: by the name of David Shalen felt on the baseball side,

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Speaker 1: and we were like, you know, I'm like, hey, can

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Speaker 1: you run like these? I got these little projections for

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Speaker 1: the field on a napkin like a month out. Why

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Speaker 1: don't you run them and stick the eight hundred number

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Speaker 1: on the bottom for people to order the book. And

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Speaker 1: we won't pay for the ad and you won't pay

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Speaker 1: for the projections. I'll just give them to you. Well, Doug,

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Speaker 1: it was like instant insanity, even though people had to

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Speaker 1: like click forty three layers in to find it and

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Speaker 1: there was no picture, there was nothing. It was just

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Speaker 1: like a typewritten page basically in the very very primitive

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Speaker 1: days of web design. Uh. But man it it took off. Really.

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Speaker 1: It was just you know, maybe three or four years

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Speaker 1: after that that I started getting paid by ESPN to

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Speaker 1: do it, sold my blue ribbon share and took this

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Speaker 1: portion of my hobby on two to the network because

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Speaker 1: like I always like, I had a job and little

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Speaker 1: kids like I couldn't. There was only so much freelancing

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Speaker 1: I could fit into, you know, the world. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I was still helping out with the book and still

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Speaker 1: helping out to the plain the guide. But you know,

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Speaker 1: dorts And and his team took it over and did

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Speaker 1: that for a few more years. And then and oh too,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember Mark Preisler. Uh sure, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, great producer to ESPN. Like I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: my office one day and he calls me and he's like,

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Speaker 1: you do you ever do TV? And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: only in my role as a spokesperson for the university,

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Speaker 1: not like I f B in the year talk about

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Speaker 1: Duke right, and I went down to an uplinked place.

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Speaker 1: I did it a couple of hits on ESPN News.

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Speaker 1: Apparently it wasn't a disaster, uh, and they brought me

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Speaker 1: to start bringing me up. Remember that old ESPN News

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Speaker 1: studio in the middle of the news room you lived

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Speaker 1: there and being in the box, yeah, exactly in the box.

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Speaker 1: It was literally like a short part three to radio

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Speaker 1: in those days from where they were right like like

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Speaker 1: you could you know, there was a newsroom, a bathroom,

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Speaker 1: and radio, and that was where I got my start.

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Speaker 1: I started going up in oh two was my first

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Speaker 1: Selection Sunday in Crystal and that streak was uninterrupted until

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Speaker 1: four days ago when I did it from my house. Right,

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Speaker 1: So twenty straight years of you know, putting up with

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Speaker 1: you guys on Selection Sunday. Tell me how wrong I was?

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Speaker 1: So um um, that's amazing, right, Like it's like I

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Speaker 1: kind of all coming back to me too, because I

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Speaker 1: had I filled in for a guy named Todd Right.

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Speaker 1: I remember Todd Right. He did it actually overnight Radio.

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Speaker 1: I used to be on his show when I was

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Speaker 1: in college. Wasn't it all night with Todd right or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and after after nine eleven, he wouldn't get on a

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Speaker 1: plane to do two shows. So I was like, I was,

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Speaker 1: I still was playing. I played. It was after playing

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Speaker 1: one year in Russia. UM. Louise Cornetta who's now doing UM,

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Speaker 1: who's now doing podcasts. She was his producer. She helped

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Speaker 1: bring me up there. Anyway, that was my first time

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Speaker 1: up in Bristol. Then I did an audition in Bristol

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Speaker 1: a couple of years later, and then I got I

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Speaker 1: was full time the following year. So this is like

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Speaker 1: two thousand three US. Anyway, I'll never forget the first

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Speaker 1: day I'm there, I pulled in, I parked, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like getting my badge, super excited, and I run

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Speaker 1: into Howie Schwab. I don't know who, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about, and he's like Doug got

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Speaker 1: the Oklahoma State. He starts like reading off seventh all

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Speaker 1: time and was sist nine and thirty seven. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're right behind three behind Greg Anthony. And

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Speaker 1: then he's like starts going through you could like I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my, what am I doing? Like he's

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Speaker 1: so like people call me so and then how I

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Speaker 1: got my start in television there because I've done games,

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Speaker 1: but I went in and I saw you should still

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Speaker 1: do by the way, yes, because you're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: God love you for everything that you do, but like

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Speaker 1: I think your best is doing games. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, because my Hawks don't, you know, generally

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Speaker 1: win a lot of tournament games, and you and spirow

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Speaker 1: happened to do the last one that we won. It

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Speaker 1: might come up on my timeline occasionally and it just

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Speaker 1: makes me smile because then I know you, yeah, it was,

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Speaker 1: it was. That was an incredible game, right where the

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Speaker 1: tip in after the buzz are unlievable games and stay

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Speaker 1: and spoke then um, and of course I was there

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Speaker 1: at the most famous St. Joe game where they lost

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Speaker 1: the Oakland State or right, and and here's and here's

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Speaker 1: here's the story to that one. So I had done

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Speaker 1: a couple of St. Joe's games that year, I remember,

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Speaker 1: and I was driving down to see the coach. Sutton

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Speaker 1: got me tickets and Sean Sutton's like going over every

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Speaker 1: pit of the scouting report with Okay, now, now do

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Speaker 1: you have their calls? Like I don't have any of

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Speaker 1: their calls Sean. I was it was super Their gym

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Speaker 1: is tiny, it's super loud, and they were great, and

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Speaker 1: you couldn't hear anything, and you know, and do I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can tell you I'm personnel anyway. I

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Speaker 1: just remember, Uh, okay, So when was the first time

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Speaker 1: it became bracketology? We talked about that a lot in

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Speaker 1: the book. We're not entirely sure. Uh. Apparently I did

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Speaker 1: a a a print interview for a for a buddy

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Speaker 1: in Philly who was the college columnist for The Inquirer

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Speaker 1: in or ninety six. This would have been around Curry

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Speaker 1: Kittle's Villanova time. Uh. And you know, the the question

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Speaker 1: what a villanous? Chances can they be this seed or

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Speaker 1: that seed? And that you're temple was on the bubble,

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Speaker 1: and what do you think of that? And and and

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Speaker 1: and the article we dug out the line is, you know,

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Speaker 1: said Joe Lenardi of Drexel Hill, p A who calls

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Speaker 1: himself a bracketologist, did you actually call yourself a brack?

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I really don't remember. It. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a. I mean, honestly, it's an unbelievable

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Speaker 1: name for what you do. It does. It does like

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Speaker 1: let's because all it does, but it also and it

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Speaker 1: has like a scientific feel to it, which I get right,

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Speaker 1: but it also has a little bit of proctology to it,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, oologists, bracketologists, and you know, you've been a

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Speaker 1: pain and Bill as his ass for twenty years, right,

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Speaker 1: and and now it's like famously getting along. And I

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Speaker 1: don't really know what I did differently. I think here's

401
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Speaker 1: the thing. I get along very well with Jay now

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Speaker 1: as well, and I didn't. I didn't initially. We talked

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Speaker 1: about it on a pod a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm I'm sure it was a little

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Speaker 1: bit of him kind of you know, Pean on the

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Speaker 1: Pean on his treat of Marcus territory. But I did

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Speaker 1: half time, did one halftime with him, and he like

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Speaker 1: turned his back to me on set like like like

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Speaker 1: that at all. Well, I mean, but here's the here's

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Speaker 1: why I think you have been welcomed into that family.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is why Jay has been really

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Speaker 1: good to me as well, which is once the guys

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Speaker 1: figure out like you're the same for everybody, you don't

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Speaker 1: really play favorites and you're just you. And this is

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Speaker 1: your lane, and you're not trying to call games. You're

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Speaker 1: not trying to He's got his thing, you got yours,

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Speaker 1: You go it, and he's actually a great dude. Exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just it just took a little bit a while

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Speaker 1: to break the ice because he's trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: who's Lenardi guy? Right, Billy Billy guy has got all

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Speaker 1: the answers, and nobody likes that kid in school, right,

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Speaker 1: nobody likes you like to sit next to the room

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Speaker 1: that's nobody like that guy. And then look, I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: like I had a I had a um, I did

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Speaker 1: an interview once when I was at CBS that the

426
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: CBS bosses didn't like. But it's actually totally accurate where

427
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: I said, you know that the big challenge when you're

428
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: calling a game is to be a know at all

429
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: but not act like I know at all? Right, Like

430
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: that's the that's the and that's that's the kind of

431
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: hard part, right is the like you do know, you

432
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: know the answer, but you can't for every every question.

433
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: That's the hard that's the hard one. So okay, So

434
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: who was the first committee member or person to show

435
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: you like because now they I mean obviously they have

436
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: in the last two years, but they take everybody in.

437
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: They show people the process. Yeah, you're the first person

438
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: to really show you the process. Uh. I would have

439
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: to say Jack Coviance, who was the a D at

440
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: g W and you know kind of part of that

441
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: like old crowd of New England former coaches, a good

442
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: guy retired now uh. And I was introduced to him

443
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: by R. A. D. Don to Julia, who had you know,

444
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: found a ball geared copy of the principles and procedures

445
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: sometime in the mid nineties and hand it to me

446
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: and said, you know, go have some fun. And you

447
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: know if there was a moment yeah, when I thought

448
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: I could sit at the grown ups table, you know,

449
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: around this time of beginning to talk to committee members,

450
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: Tom O'Connor, who is the idea, George Mason when they

451
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: did their thing, you know, it was was another person

452
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: who at least let me talk to him, you know,

453
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: like would would make time for that little guy who

454
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: you know with the pencil and the pad. Uh. But uh,

455
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: the the Atlantic ten sometimes I don't know late you know,

456
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: oh six or seven or eight in that range, had

457
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: like a the commissioner at that time formed a committee

458
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: of a couple of coaches and a couple of a

459
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: d s to talk about like, how should we set

460
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: up our league schedule? Should there be guidelines for our

461
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: schools for nonconference scheduling to maximize their chances in front

462
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: of the community. That this was kind of like the

463
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: early days of beginning to be strategic about this stuff, right,

464
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: and to close the gap between them agers and the

465
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: next year, right, because you know, units were still a

466
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: lot of money and they wanted more of them fundamentally,

467
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: that's what that's what they wanted. And Jack was was

468
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: on this committee and the Atlantic ten at that time

469
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: was headquartered in Philly, so they put me on it,

470
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: uh say, you know, like we'd go down there like

471
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: one summer day and this this particular season, g W

472
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: lost one game. Okay, they were they were a sixth

473
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: in the Ape pole and they got an eight seed

474
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: because they had like the non confidence sketchule. Right. So

475
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: we're sitting in this committee room and Convinced is telling

476
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: the other coaches the other like and and I remember

477
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: Sean Miller was its Xavier. He was in the room,

478
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: Uh you know, Martelli was in the room like like

479
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: some pretty smart people. I think an assistant for Chining.

480
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't changing, but because that would have just scared everyone.

481
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: But like Jack's like, fellas, you just gotta go win games.

482
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like, and he was on the committee at

483
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: the time, right, so like going around the room and

484
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: you know, like, don't worry about your schedule, just go,

485
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: you know, just go win as main games as you can.

486
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: It's going and and you know, like I'm sitting there

487
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: with my charts and my you know, avocus and everything,

488
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, that's really not right. And

489
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, do I speak? Do I not speak? You know,

490
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm not sure. I'm at the grown up table.

491
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: And it gets and and plus he's on the committee.

492
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: He's sitting across the table right at this moment. And

493
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: maybe he had rotated off, I don't remember. And he

494
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: had been really good to me and Joe, you know,

495
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: what are you think all of that? I said, Um,

496
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: I said, what just happened this year? Like short of

497
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: Marcus Canby, the Atlantic ten has probably never had a

498
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: higher ranked team on selection and Sunday then then did

499
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: that year and and and and I said, Jack, you

500
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: got an eight seed in Duke's region in Greensboro. I said,

501
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: like short of getting hit in the head with a

502
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: bat in your non conference schedule, like like, what am

503
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: I mixing? And then he goes and then he goes, well,

504
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, like they make us leave the room and

505
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: they talk about your team, and I don't know what

506
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: the discussion was, and blah blah blah blah blah. I said,

507
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: but they let you back in right like you saw them.

508
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: You looked up and you went, we're a freaking a

509
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: We're twenty seven and one. Like I looked around the

510
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: room and I said, fellas, Cheney and Calipari gave us

511
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: the model play any body anywhere. If that means an

512
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: eight for one with Kansas, you do it right, like

513
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: you just do it. Is it fair that they dictate

514
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: the terms? No, but life isn't fair, right, And and

515
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: then I knew. I knew because like the other you know,

516
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: they don't want to, you know, how to have to

517
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: kind of play the room, and you know, there's a

518
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: little bit of quiet, and Jack says, well, you know,

519
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: maybe that'll be the way it is going forward. And

520
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, let's all agree on that, you know,

521
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: and to his credit. He even he said, yeah, you know,

522
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: that might be a trend. And clearly for a long

523
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: time after that, as long as the RPI was still involved,

524
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: it was um okayup, couple couple quick ones. Did George

525
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: Mason belong in the tournament when they got to the

526
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: final four? Arguably not? Uh no, now here's what's here's

527
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: what's very important. I don't want to disturb your train

528
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: of thought, but what happens is, um, people, I want

529
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: to assume that if I'll never forget. I was at

530
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: I was at CBS Mons Selection and U C l A.

531
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: Steve Alford and um, I remember they got in. I

532
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: didn't think they belonged in and the when we had

533
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: the the committee on it's like, well they got hot

534
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: late in year. Well they played the three worst teams

535
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: in the pack twelve and one kind of meaningless games

536
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: and then lost in the PAC twelve tournament. And I

537
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: was like, look there said something sarcastic. There's no reasonable

538
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: human being things they belong in this field. Right Yeah?

539
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: That always yeah, that was that was that was. That

540
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: was a tough one, but it was you know, like

541
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of my styles. I'll just say a little

542
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: just say what I think and then a little bit

543
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: over the top of anyway. So then it comes around

544
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: to picking games, and I picked U c l A

545
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: to win, and people like, well, that's a contradiction, Like no,

546
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: it's actually not. It's not not even close, right, So okay,

547
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: so George Mason for people, obviously, remember they went to

548
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: the final four, but they lost uh in the CIA

549
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: Tournament in the semifinals, I believe, and Tony Skin, who

550
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: is their point guard, who could be their next head coach.

551
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: I think he hit a guy in the nuts on

552
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: purpose and he was and so he was suspended for

553
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: whatever there. So not only are they a borderline team,

554
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: but they also aren't going to have their point guard

555
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: for a game, for a game, which normally that takes

556
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: you down at least maybe a seed. And they got

557
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: and and they got it right, how's my memory? Very good?

558
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: Very good. But it was the player absence, you know,

559
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: but will return thing that was. But they also lost

560
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: to like I'm gonna say, like Hofster like twice in

561
00:35:53,920 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: the last three games. Yes, yes, and and Little Thank god,

562
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: neither of these teams is still in the Colonial, so

563
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: I can't screw them up as much little known bracketology trivia.

564
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: I missed one. I missed one team that year and

565
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: it was Mason. You No. Six and I missed one

566
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: team and it was and you know what, Jerry Palm,

567
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: God bless him. We just agree to disagree on this.

568
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: They were wrong about VCU even more I think than

569
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: they were wrong about George Mason. The bottom lines, like

570
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: d you look, they played their tails off in the

571
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 1: tournament and they shot like from three for a month

572
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: after shooting. You know, great, The kids deserve all the credit.

573
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: They got the chance, they played the games they won excellent.

574
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: But that's not the same conversation anymore than yours was

575
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: for picking U C. L A. After saying they didn't

576
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: like like teams make the n foul playoffs that we

577
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: think stink, but then all of a sudden we like

578
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: the match up. Right. It happened, Yes, it absolutely and

579
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, look, the only difference is the people at

580
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: GM you embraced it in a positive way and they

581
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: liked me, and people at VC you still hate me.

582
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: Very good. Yeah, that's been kind of their thing, is

583
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: that it's almost the Greg Greg Greg Marshall playing group, which,

584
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: by the way, by the way, the Greg Marshall thing

585
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: is is amazing. It's because he was. When he was

586
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: at Winthrop, he was my best friend, and I thought

587
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: he did a fabulous job as a coach. You know,

588
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know some of the inner workings of how

589
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: he was treating people. Clearly, he's pretty good at the

590
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: X and O part of the he's amazing. He's an

591
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: amazing basketball um. And then he goes to Wichita and

592
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: here's here's like the here's a story no one's ever heard.

593
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: So his first year at which testing he takes over

594
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: for Tours. You left, right, and remember Tours took them

595
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: again that same year as George Mason. He took them

596
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: to a sweet sixteen I believe, right, and they each other, yes,

597
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: so uh so. Anyway, so we're doing a game against

598
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: I think it was Missouri State. It still might have

599
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: been Southwest Missouri State in spring, right, and which South

600
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: me very good and Missouri States slightly better. And Greg

601
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: before the game, he couldn't be any nicer, and he's like, um,

602
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: what times your flight? I said, well, there's one out

603
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: of St. Louis, but it's far and I don't know

604
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: if I can make it tonight, and whatever he's like,

605
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: it was a six o'clock start. He's like, I'll take

606
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: care of you. I'll get you there, right, and I go,

607
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: what do you mean, It's like, like this fucking team.

608
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, it's not not my guys, it's

609
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: kind of first year, just like whatever. Right. He literally

610
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: didn't call it. They're down the second half. They went

611
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: from like down twelve, like down twenty whatever. He's sitting

612
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: there winking at me, not calling a time out. Big

613
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: games at least two hours. It goes like a buck

614
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: forty seven. And then he's like he's like the He's like,

615
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: the gives me the piece out what I'm done. We're

616
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: like and we made the flight. Anyway, fast forward that

617
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: do I called their games when they beat Gonzaga. I

618
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: partied with those guys afterwards. It was amazing. That was

619
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: bracketbuster days, right. I got to tell that story in

620
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: the Final four as well. Right. Um, the next year

621
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: they're undefeated, and my my argument against them being a

622
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: one seed was like, hey, look I did the St.

623
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: Louis game. That was your toughest game to date. You

624
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: didn't you like, you can't. You didn't play even close

625
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: to the schedule of anybody else. And and you're like sorry, Like,

626
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: I just don't think you're a once. If I put

627
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: you in the Big twelve, you're gonna lose four or

628
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: five games and you'll still be a very good team.

629
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: And that that was when our friendship apparently, see and

630
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: I was the worst human being unearned. Give me a

631
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: friendship you have lost based upon eating or something you

632
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: have said getting ready for a tournament. Well, you know,

633
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm so magnanimous when I do it. That a friendship lost, Well,

634
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: there's probably nothing more obvious. And this gives me an

635
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: opportunity to offer you a huge belated thanks for being

636
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: among many to come to my defense when Archie Miller

637
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: came after me last year. Uh, and Archie and I

638
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: when he was at Dayton, like I helped them with

639
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: scheduling and we did some TV hits together to promote

640
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: the first four in Dayton, and and and have like

641
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: the dating people are awesomewhat basketball because they just love it.

642
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: They don't have anything else, and they're just it's a great,

643
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: it's just a cool have I have no And it's funny,

644
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: like this is a quick aside. Archie was the coach

645
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: at Dayton I did the first four game Boisse state.

646
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: You can't you can't do that takes away from the

647
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: core of what this is supposed to be about. And

648
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that I was doing the game with them,

649
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: with Iron okay, and there's like less than four minutes

650
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: to go in the game. It was an amazing basketball game.

651
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: Came out of the last possession of Oklin And I

652
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: said on air on True TV or whatever, like, if

653
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: you think this is a neutral site, there's eighteen thousand

654
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: people that you know or whatever that that that disagree.

655
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: And this is why so many in college so many

656
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: college basketball people are so upset. And the place was raucous.

657
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: That was a great atmosphere. It's awesome. It was I had,

658
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, but and and Archie to his credit, and

659
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: I followed that team. He got to the second round,

660
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: third round whatever it was called back then in Columbus, right,

661
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: and and Archie to his credit, wasn't a dick to me,

662
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: but he was a dick to you last year. Yeah,

663
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: and I you know, and yeah, It's it's just interesting

664
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: on how guys like you're you're like me, we're just

665
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: we just call it like we see we're just trying

666
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: to be fair has nothing to do with whose friends

667
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: and who's not and whatever. But what happens is when

668
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: it's about them, they can, and it's a it seems

669
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: it's a negative. They can some guys completely change how

670
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: they treat you. And I just I made a decision

671
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: in that moment that I wasn't going to take debate, right,

672
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't gonna like and I was like, Joe,

673
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: do you want to go on the air, and and

674
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm like no, because like he's acting like a child,

675
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: and I want to be the grown up if if

676
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: that's possible, and uh, frankly, you know, if if we

677
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: were pr consultans, we say there's no need for me

678
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: to depend myself because all of you already were. And uh,

679
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: the one call I made, uh was was to Mark

680
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: Telly because obviously we spent forever together at St. Joe's

681
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 1: and and he'd been in the e coach against Archie

682
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: in the ten A lot and the year they went

683
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: to the Elite eight, we beat him three tops, including

684
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: in the eight ten final, and and now he was

685
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: at Michigan and so they're playing Indiana, right, I'm like, Phil, like,

686
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: what is the deal, and he's like, Joe, the pressure

687
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 1: in Indiana is insane, he said, and it would knock

688
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: a normal person off the rails. And unspoken was that

689
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: maybe interpersonally, Archie wasn't as evolved yet as maybe some

690
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: people in Indiana would like him to be. And I

691
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: was like, okay, like I can't imagine the press sure

692
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: of coaching in Indiana and that, but you can't treat

693
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: people that way. So so to me, the disappointment isn't

694
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: that that aired all over the world. It's that it's

695
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: now been a year and change and he has my

696
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: number right, Like, hey man, I was a bad moment.

697
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: It's a bad time, and I would have been like

698
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: my kids, like any of us anything, any kid, like

699
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: I was film pressure, make the tournament. Well, I still

700
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: had him in the damn field. He just didn't like

701
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: the first four. And I'm like, I'll screw you because

702
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: you know not to not to not to like like

703
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm the bracketologist and you're not like I know more

704
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: about this than you do. I'm not going to tell

705
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: you how to defend the high ball screen. Well, the

706
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: other the other, the other part, that's that's I think

707
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: people have to remember is you all you're trying to

708
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: don't tell me if I'm wrong. Is if you were

709
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: if you were flying on the wall that room, this

710
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: is what you think that room would be thinking correct, correct, correct,

711
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: as opposed to he hates my school. Right, it's okay

712
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: you have he hate my school. It's okay, okay um.

713
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: And it's also funny that that people will say you're

714
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: inaccurate when it's not always the case. Right. Actually, you

715
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: go by if you cut out a lot of the

716
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: human elements to it, you believe if you go based

717
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: upon their procedures, this is what you think, right, Like

718
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: like that's a so so sometimes you miss, Like how

719
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: many do you get this year? I missed one? Well,

720
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: who's you miss? I had louis villein not because I

721
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: thought it was so hard. They were so hard. I

722
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: mean they they play up with Wisconsin. They have none

723
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: of their guys, right, so how do we how do

724
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: we how do we adjust mathematical equation COVID related issues

725
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: which they had throughout the season. And look the team

726
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: that you know, they took Wichita on my board was

727
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: sixty nine. So like that's as close to miss as

728
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: you can get, right, And then just because I like

729
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: saying this and hopefully we'll never have it again. This

730
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: year we also got seventy sev seventy two ranked right

731
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: as replacements, and we had that in exact word, how

732
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: do you factor how do you factor in the Drake thing?

733
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: They lose their point guard, they lost their best player,

734
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: and now the best players supposed to come back to

735
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: the tournament and how did you how did you adjust that? Uh?

736
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: I it was an educated guest. I thought, you know,

737
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: at at look their metrics were good enough so that

738
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: the committee could could could make whatever decision it wanted

739
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: and justify it. And those are the situations that keep

740
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: me up at night. Those are the because like like,

741
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: if you put ten people in any room on any

742
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: subject and said you have X number of hours to

743
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: come to an agreement about it, right, not only is

744
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: it incredibly difficult, but if the same ten people meet

745
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: a day later on the same subject, it might be

746
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: a different answer. Um. So that's my that's my world.

747
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: Um okay, the coolest somebody stopping you on the street,

748
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: some of you grabbing you, none of arena be like,

749
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: hey man, I love your work, Like I who give

750
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: give me the coolest one? All right there. There's a bunch.

751
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: But my my father in law in particular loves this one.

752
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: So I'll tell it. Uh when to four years ago?

753
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: Now three years four years ago, I'm on a golf

754
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: trip in Ireland, okay, uh, And you know it's the

755
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: last day the Kuda Rock, Old Head. And can say,

756
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: like if if you're a golf guy, I've said it

757
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: and you know what I'm talking about. And if you're not,

758
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: just imagine this golf course on a huge rock in

759
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: the middle of the ocean, Okay, like Pebble Beach, but

760
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: in Ireland, all right, And you know I am a

761
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: bogey golfer at best, So you know, wayward shots are

762
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: certainly very much a part of the experience, right And

763
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: plus it's windy as hell over there, and if you

764
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: can start spinning the wrong way with the wind, you

765
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: might never find it. So I slice one and it

766
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: doesn't just go over next time, it goes two holes

767
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: over like I am way off target. And and you

768
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: know this is one of those courses you gotta like

769
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: get a blessing from the pople to even get on it, right,

770
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: So I'm running after my bond. I'm gonna get I'm

771
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: just gonna pick it up up, run back to my hole,

772
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: put it and keep playing. I'm not going to be

773
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: that guy that holds up the whole course, right, I'm

774
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: just not gonna be that guy. I run over and

775
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm about to pick it up and yelling from way

776
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: down the fairway the guys in that hole. Somebody goes, hey,

777
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: Joey Brackets, you can play. Just move Florida next year.

778
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: True story. It was just a guy who liked Florida,

779
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: the guy in the middle. So we end up at

780
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: the you know, nineteenth all after buying each other, you know,

781
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: getting Oh my gosh, and all the other guys I

782
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: was with on that trip. Whenever I see him, they

783
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: just yell, hey, Joey Brackets, what about Florida Another time?

784
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: You love this because I bet you've been there. The

785
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: outback on Queen Street in Southington. Okay, one night, you know,

786
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: it's Championship week. I'm like doing my thing, and I

787
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: don't know how I had an hour off, but I did,

788
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 1: maybe because we had pre taped the halftime, who knows.

789
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking I'm gonna this might be my relationships.

790
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to go get actually get a meal with

791
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: a vegetable, right, and see if I can't get through

792
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: this week. But it's something something green, even if it's

793
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 1: a painted onion ring. Right, come over there, and you

794
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: know you could sit at the bar get a quick

795
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: because I hate to sit at like a table by myself.

796
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: As I'm sitting there, and and a segment that we've done, hell,

797
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: you could have been in for alling. The segment comes

798
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: on and there's this guy like a couple of seats stand.

799
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: He's looking at me and he's looking at the TV

800
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: and he's looking at me and looking at the TV

801
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: and it's kind of putting it together. Right, So I go,

802
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: I go, oh, yeah, that's my twin brother. We all

803
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: think he's a jacket and he's like yeah, and already

804
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: think he knows everything. What does he know? Blah blah

805
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So I keep it going like the

806
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: whole stick for another few minutes and I think, you know,

807
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: he's leaving. Can I give you my card? And he

808
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: gives me card. I give him my card and I said,

809
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: I think I got you. That was pretty fun. That

810
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: was pretty fun. Well, listen, you're always good stuff, man.

811
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: I can't wait to I can't wait. Can I say

812
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 1: one more thing? I see one more thing that we're

813
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: not time limited here, uh, even though you know we're

814
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: not in a regular basis. Very cool from Afar on

815
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: social media watching you be a dad. Very cool because

816
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: I remember when the twins were born, and clearly you

817
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: know that's not now a recent development. Here's what very

818
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: cool as now like I have two grown you know,

819
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: and and and out of the house. Well, so my son,

820
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: my son's birthday, this will drop tomorrow, first day of

821
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 1: the tournament. My son's birthday is tomorrow, March nineteenth, first

822
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: day of the tournament, which is what in my neck

823
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: of the woods St. Joseph's day. I almost named him Steph,

824
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: but Steph Curry didn't make the tournament. Remember nine, yeah, year,

825
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: he didn't make it. He didn't make it, didn't make

826
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: the tournament. Well after after you know, we let you

827
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: win in a four. Why don't you name him your mirror?

828
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: A good point, um, because here's here's I never like,

829
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait, I wasn't done. I wasn't done.

830
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: I never met your dad. But seeing you, you know,

831
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 1: pay him tribute in so many different ways. The best

832
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: way you're doing it is in being the dad that

833
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: you are and I just wanted to say that, and

834
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: I also wanted to say thank you for the archie thing,

835
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: but especially the dad thing, so thanks for doing it.

836
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: I just this is my thing with the archie thing.

837
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: I know you as a person, and I've I've always

838
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: been this way and that you're always allowed to attack

839
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: my work. And this is where you and I were

840
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: really good, where we always would go back and forth

841
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: about things and at the end of it we're still friends. Right,

842
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: Like it's just but right. But some people will take

843
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: it very personally, and and what they I'm not saying you,

844
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying there have been people that we have both

845
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: worked with, some that you continue to work with, that

846
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 1: take it very personally and they lash out personally. I

847
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: felt like, like the thing that you do that I know,

848
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: I think you know, but you don't know if you know,

849
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: is you actually celebrate the sport. We just don't have enough.

850
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: We don't have enough people that are like just that

851
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: into the sport, the actual sport, the actual and so

852
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: there's we we've try and find the negative in anything,

853
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: and I'm like, bro, here's the dude who gets up

854
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: every morning all he wants to do, Like the greatest

855
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: thing in the world is the is the the reason

856
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: it all works is the bracket. That's the reason it's

857
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: so much money. Anybody who wants to take it doesn't

858
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: doesn't that it fits, and the four extra teams kind

859
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: of screw it up. So we pretend like these first

860
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: four games don't happen with that racket is perfection, and

861
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: that's what it is. You create a contage industry and

862
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: you would very very little, little, if any bias in it.

863
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: So somebody wants to pack you the person I will

864
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: always have your back, even if I don't always agree

865
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: with some of your some of your assessments, because but

866
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: but but this is the so. So here's how how

867
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 1: much basketball is a part of my life. My daughters

868
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: were well, Harper, Harper and Grace. They turned fifteen next month.

869
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you are in for it. So so uh.

870
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: Fifteen years ago in February mhm, my brother was an

871
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: assistant at San Diego State. They're taken on you and

872
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: LB and we all got together. His wife was pregnant,

873
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: My wife was pregnant, and we couldn't we couldn't figure

874
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: out how how name these damned kids. We had three kids.

875
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: We had three kids coming and no names and they

876
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: found out that and wait until we are weren't available.

877
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: We has been good. My sister was pregnant too as

878
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: well as crazy, and we found out they found out

879
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: that they were having a boy on that trip we

880
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: all met in Vegas mhm. So we had boy names,

881
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: they had some girl names. They gave us girl names,

882
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: and we decided on Harper on that on that trip

883
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: when Santego State played UNLB. But that's not the crazy part.

884
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: Here's where it comes back to Joey Brackets and our

885
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: job and why it sucks sometimes. Our brother worked for

886
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: Steve Fisher m hmm for eight years. Fisher is a

887
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: nice human being, but he was a jerk to me

888
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: after that game because at some point I said, you know,

889
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: like they're not I don't remember if I said they're

890
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: not in the field or there. They got to win

891
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: these amount of games or whatever, like it's just right.

892
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: But he, you know, like he's like, I can't believe

893
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: call me ever after the game, I can't you know,

894
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: I got all these calls and messages. I can't believe

895
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have us in the field when your brother

896
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: works here and I go coach, like, well, I can't

897
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: do that. You can't do that. I can't. I can't

898
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: do that. Like that wouldn't be like I can't that

899
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: the stuff that when when when you guys won the

900
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: league and you I thought you deserved a better seed,

901
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't because of my brother or because the job

902
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: he does, because you deserve a better seed, right Like anyway,

903
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: he grabbed me. Like two weeks later, he called me

904
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: and he said he called me and he apologized, and

905
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: he said, DoD, I just want you to know I

906
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: got done winning a game. I looked at my phone

907
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: and somebody told me you said something, and I watched

908
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: the tape and it totally like he was the most

909
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: He was such a gentleman and he was so apologetic

910
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: and then that that's what you're missing, MARCHI, Right, that's

911
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: that's all you Mr Marks, Like, hey man, I was

912
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: under ton of pressure, you know, and I just lost it.

913
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: Impremely apologize, that's all I gotta say. That we're good.

914
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: He doesn't even have to supremely, just has to be

915
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: a human being, just like acknowledge the fact that, like, Okay,

916
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: I had a bad moment, that's all. Yeah, I gotta

917
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: I gotta left this little lefty kid. I don't know

918
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: if he'll be big enough, but he can really he

919
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: can do what I can do. He can really shoot

920
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: the crap out of it. I can't wait. Hopefully sometime

921
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: you have them in your bracket. Yeah, let me let

922
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: me break it to you. He's not gonna get me

923
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: much bigger. This is an area of expertise I own. Okay, Yeah, hey,

924
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: I gotta run. You're a great, great your family and

925
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: uh and uh let's talk a brother. See later