1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three oh two, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Episode two of D Like I Say, production of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: This is where we take a deep dive into America's 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: share consciousness. Thank you Katie for that. That was appreciated. 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: It there, it is, it needs it. It is Tuesday, 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: August twenty ninth, twenty twenty three. My name is Jack 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: O'Brien AKA. I have an AKA here on my phone, 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna bring it up. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: That's a weird one talk yeah one, I know. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: Stopping at the moon from Mars connection. We need moonlaw 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 3: because we got none. We need moonlaw's cause we got none. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 3: That is courtesy of Blinky heck about the space. 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: Race to control the ice in the South Poldma, And 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: there's nothing saying who's gonna own it. It's just going 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: to be somebody's who gets there. 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: They can say, dibbs, we're gonna make a nice granite 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: out of it. Granite. 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what the fuck that is, but. 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: It's an Italian slusher, So Italian Mamma Mia. 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Well, who is that voice, that thick Italian accent that here? 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: We're thrilled to be joined by a very special guest 22 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: co host one of the funniest comedy writers doing it. 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: You know her words from the birds rights activist account 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Some more news with Cody Johnson. You know 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: her voice from podcast like Creature features Secretly incredibly fascinating. 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: Please welcome, coming all the way from Italy. The brilliant, 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: the talented Katie Golden. 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 4: How does she. 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: Mean when you're doing podcast? There is nothing to be said? 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I love it. 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: The song of the song of the season, song of 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: the year. 33 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: What is that song? 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: It's the all of the dream? How does it mean? Okay, 35 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: there's the rhythm. When the rhythm is glad, there is 36 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: nothing to be said. That's right, danger and dance clapping 37 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: the hands. 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: Jack, I'm sorry, I'm not up on anything. We listened 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 1: to John Williams music and the Hold at the current moment. 40 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: My kids are We're going to play this for you 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 2: after the episode. You have to. It's all the rage 42 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: over all the internet right now. 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: And I will play the finale from the end of 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: Rise of Skywalker for you because it's really it's ten 45 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: minutes long and it covers everything. Anyways, Katie, it's a 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: full cracked reunion because we are thrilled to be joined 47 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: in our third seat by the best selling author of 48 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: books like John Dies At the end, Zoe punches the 49 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: future in the dick if this book exists here in 50 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: the wrong universe and the new Zoe is too drunk 51 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: for this yestopia, which I believe you can pre order. Still. Yes, 52 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: he is also one of the hosts of the podcast 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: Big Feats, which, if I'm reading this Paris Review article correctly, 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: is the only Mountain Monsters podcast officially endorsed by Big Feet. 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: He's our former coworker at Cracked, co creator of the 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: Cracked podcast. Welcome back to the show, Jason Pardon. 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 5: Now, is it okay for me to do my fake 58 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 5: Italian accent that I do? Sometimes I don't know. I 59 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 5: realize there are some accents that are inappropriate to keep. 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: That deeply as a one hundred percent non Italian person 61 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: living in Italy, I'd be deeply offended. 62 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 6: Okay, then I won't because it's one that's so much 63 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 6: fun that I don't know if I'm doing an actual 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 6: Italian accent or if I'm doing a Hollywood accent of 65 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 6: actors who themselves were in no way Italian but just 66 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 6: and did not have a language ghost here, it's like. 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 4: Why what you breaking my balls? 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 6: Yes? 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 4: There it is there. 70 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: It is the concept of Italian accent is immigrants from 71 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: Naples who came to the US. And that's it. 72 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: And Chris Pratt's interpretation of Mario. Those are the two 73 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of key texts, the cornerstones. 74 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: He's a national icon in Italy. Actually people don't think that, 75 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: but like Chris Pratt popular. 76 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: All right, Jason, how are you doing? Where are you 77 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: coming to us from? Undisclosed? 78 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 5: Sure, I'm in the state of Tennessee. If you want 79 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 5: to try to find me, I'm sure. There's there's one 80 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 5: guy on TikTok who can locate anybody just from any 81 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 5: photo they take. If you want to show up at 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 5: my house, I'm sure you can do it, but it has. 83 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: He do it. Like even if you're inside he can 84 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: do it. Probably not. 85 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 5: But if you're standing like just in your yard, he 86 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 5: will take the sliver of sky behind you, he can 87 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 5: identify exactly down to your address. And that's his whole 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 5: So this whole bit. 89 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy and terrifying. Katie is coming to us 90 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: from Europe, not Italy. 91 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: Though, this time from Barcelona. 92 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: Hey, well well done. On the pronunciation kid. 93 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: Failure. 94 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: It's yeah, now that feels like it should be offensive. 95 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: It probably is. Yeah, Okay, you know I'm in for it. 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: All right. 97 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Well, we wanted to get together for this special, you know, 98 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: Tuesday Evergreen one subject episode, to to talk placebos because 99 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: they're kind of in the news. Like there I saw 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: a thing fairly recently where somebody was saying that, like 101 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: the placebo effects has actually been disproven. We did a 102 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: podcast on placibas a long time ago, so I wanted 103 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: to dig back in on like have they been disproven? 104 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Was all the stuff that we were talking about back 105 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: in the day a complete bullshit? And yeah, it's also 106 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: like it came up a lot in my thinking around 107 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: the Havana syndrome. Havana syndrome even though it's not like 108 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: that's not specifically a placebo, but it does have something 109 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: to do with like how meaning affects the human body, Like, are. 110 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: You telling me that's that? It was not a Cuban 111 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 2: death ray. 112 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: It was a sound ray. It was a Cuban sound 113 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: ray that melted people's brains. 114 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: A Cuban brain microwave exactly. 115 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: They used sound that nobody else could hear right. Anyways, 116 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about all of that plenty more. 117 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: But before we get to any of it, Jason, we 118 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: do like to ask our guests, what is something from 119 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: your search history that's revealing about who you are. 120 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 5: I searched this like a week ago, fenyl efren FDA 121 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 5: thinyl frind. If that word in that chemical is unfamiliar 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 5: to you, I can almost guarantee you you have ingested 123 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 5: it at some point, because it is the active ingredient 124 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 5: in almost every over the counter cold and sinus medication. Tylenol, 125 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 5: pseudo fed pe inning, he's got the letters PE on it. 126 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 5: The active ingredient is finol efrin, and finol efron does 127 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 5: not do anything. Scientists have known this for a while. 128 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 5: What happened was when sudafed had to go behind the 129 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 5: counter because it is obviously used for meth. They knew 130 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 5: that would deter some customers from buying anything, so they 131 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 5: released different versions of their products that could be sold 132 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 5: out on the shelf, and those are all placebos, not 133 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 5: intentionally so. I think they may have had data at 134 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 5: some point that they relieve symptoms, but it has since 135 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 5: been completely debunked. It does not outperform placebo even if 136 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 5: you up the dosage bar four one hundred percent. Wow, 137 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 5: so now you will. Still there are people listening right 138 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 5: now saying, well, that's ridiculous. I take DayQuil or whatever 139 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 5: the other ones are, any of them non drowsy, you know, 140 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 5: sinus stuff, and it makes me feel better. But the 141 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 5: thing about sinus and cold symptoms is one they are variable. 142 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 5: For instance, for most people, it's worse in the morning 143 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 5: and gets better as the day goes on, so invariably 144 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 5: it will get better. And also your body naturally heals it. 145 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 5: So it's like, well, yeah, I took it for like 146 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 5: four straight days, boom, I was good as threat. It's 147 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 5: like if you had also, your body would have done 148 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 5: that anyways, yes, if you had taken tic tax for 149 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 5: four straight days. And so this is why bringing this 150 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 5: up obviously the theme of the episode. That's not a 151 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 5: placebo in the sense that this stuff in the garbage 152 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 5: aisle of the pharmacy where they've got all of the 153 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 5: herbs that will increase focus by selling you some sort 154 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 5: of you know, the root or flower something. 155 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: Yes, focus, that's what I go into that section. 156 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: For increased focus on focus below the waiste focus right. 157 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: One laser guided focus. 158 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: That stuff. 159 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 5: I feel like there's an understanding among educated people it's like, 160 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 5: well that stuff will see bo It's you take a powder, 161 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 5: you put it in your tea, and then it gives 162 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 5: you the confidence to get in erection when you're having sex, 163 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 5: because and it works, like people will buy it again 164 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 5: and again because it's like, yeah, it reduces their anxiety 165 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 5: because like, I'm good, I've taken my my boner tea 166 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 5: and then that actually does help them perform. 167 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: But I don't I didn't. 168 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: Realize confidence was sort of a key part of the erection. 169 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: Like if you're just not confident enough, oh yeah, there 170 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:33,599 Speaker 2: is a dysfunction. 171 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, Oh my god, we could do 172 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: the whole episode about this. Yes, I'm and also like tea, 173 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: like I feel like tea. Like you're also just not 174 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: drinking enough tea. I think those are the two main things. 175 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: Not enough confidence t. 176 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: T gives you boners. 177 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: I think gives you you just drink it with your 178 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: hands cupped around the tea and give it a little 179 00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: while wearing a cart. 180 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 2: Again, that's why the British we're super into it. 181 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, confidence is definitely important. 182 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 5: There's crippling performance anxiety to the point that it is 183 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 5: like a physical symptom because men feel such pressure to 184 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 5: do it right that that can Actually, we'll talk about. 185 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: My little scorecards might have been overkill causing problems. 186 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: I see play by play commentary, But the reviews you 187 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: left later on whatever website where women lead disaster is disaster. 188 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: Boner yelp, boner, yelp. 189 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 5: That has to exist, right must Anyway, back on this sentence, 190 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 5: I was finishing like four minutes ago. Most of us 191 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 5: know that stuff is placebo. What a lot of us 192 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 5: don't realize is how much of the stuff sold in 193 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 5: the rest of the pharmacy is placebo. And I do 194 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 5: not mean this in a I'm not from like the 195 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 5: wellness corner of the Internet. It's like a Western medicine 196 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 5: is nonsense. I mean literally the efficacy of like headache medicine. 197 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 5: Headaches go away on their own eventually, the percentage of 198 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 5: time when you took etcetera and the headache went away 199 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 5: because the etceteran versus it went away on its own, 200 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 5: or went away because you drank a cup of coffee 201 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 5: and it was just caffeine withdrawal, causing your headache. You 202 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 5: would be shocked at how many of the pills you've 203 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 5: taken from the real medicine part of the pharmacy didn't 204 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 5: actually do anything. Likewise, when I used to go to 205 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 5: the doctor for flu, cold, sin of symptoms, they would 206 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 5: give me an antibiotic. Antibiotics don't do anything against a virus. 207 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 5: But the doctors know you will be mad if you 208 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 5: don't walk out of there with something that's a placebo. 209 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 5: We waste a lot of antibiotics on as the placebo effect. 210 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 5: It works, It will work, but it worked because you 211 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 5: were going to get better anyway. 212 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: And they're also making the bacteria stronger and more ready 213 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: for a. 214 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: Back, like the bacteria thunderdome. 215 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah. 216 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,239 Speaker 2: The headache thing is really interesting because I've recently discovered 217 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: this technique for headaches where it's like you think to yourself, 218 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: like where is my headache? And then you ask yourself 219 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: weird questions like what color is my headache, what shape 220 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: is my headache? What flavor is my headache? And like 221 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: you're like really focusing on your headache, and you're supposed 222 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 2: to like actually answer those questions. As silly as they sound, 223 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 2: you're supposed to imagine a shape for it, imagine what 224 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: color it is, and it actually is fairly effective for 225 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: me when I have, like not for a really powerful headache, 226 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: but like you know, like a minor headache. And I 227 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: think it's interesting because like part of it could be 228 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: like your body's relaxing more because you're focused on a task. 229 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: That's like not it's not a stressful thing to try 230 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: to think about shapes and colors. It's also like making 231 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: you kind of like think about your head in a 232 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: weird way. It's very strange. It's super weird that it works, 233 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: but it does actually work for me. 234 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's super interesting. Yeah, I think like the 235 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: thing that I ultimately the conclusion I ultimately came to 236 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: from doing the research on this, and we'll get more 237 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: into it as we go, but is that like there's 238 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: just this massive like placebo is only a tiny portion 239 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: of a much larger field that connects like what is 240 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: like meaning and like what either social meaning or like 241 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: personal meaning and like just language with like what is 242 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: happening inside our body? And so it's yeah, I don't 243 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: know that the study that was like the placebo isn't real, 244 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: the like I take the point that there's a reversion 245 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: to the mean, But I do think that there's also 246 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: something that is realer than common understanding when you say placebo, like, 247 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: there's something realer than what happens in at least my mind, 248 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: that happens inside the body during a placebo effect. But 249 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: we will get into that. But so what is We 250 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: also like to ask our guess, what's something you think 251 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: is overrated. 252 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 5: That's is not related to this subject. But I would 253 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 5: say just the concept of streaming media because, for example, 254 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 5: I decided I was going to go back and watch 255 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 5: the show Westworld on HBO because I thought maybe I 256 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 5: had judged it too harshly, maybe there's too much conversation 257 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 5: around it, and found and found that it is gone 258 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 5: from hbox. They when they canceled it, they pulled it 259 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 5: from the library. So now if you want to watch it, 260 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 5: you have to go pay for it, either episode by 261 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 5: episode or by a season. To buy all four seasons 262 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 5: is one hundred dollars. It's twenty five bucks a season. 263 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 5: So to give you an idea of how skewed the 264 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 5: streaming business model was, which is obviously this is relevant 265 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 5: because of the strikes and the actors and writers all 266 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 5: trying to get new deals, and you have all the 267 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 5: studios saying, well, our streaming services are losing billions with 268 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 5: what money? They're losing billions because they set up a bad, 269 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 5: intentionally bad business model that basically rendered physical media all 270 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 5: but obsolete and what turned out to be a very 271 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 5: bad deal for consumers because they are not going to 272 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 5: keep these libraries. Your subscription to HBO doesn't guarantee you 273 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 5: any access to anything that they choose to pull next week. 274 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,359 Speaker 5: And it's yeah, but that's what dispute was about. 275 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: There was some series called Willow. I never watched it, 276 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: but apparently they like released it and then completely obliterated it, 277 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: like memory hold it after like a month. 278 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 279 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: It was just it was it was wiped from the 280 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: face of the earth. Everyone who had watched it had 281 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: their memories pulled from their brains. 282 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: They were actually put in prison, right, Yeah, we're made 283 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: to forced to undergo oh horrifying psychological. 284 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: They were lobottomized. 285 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Willow being the show that was like an expansion 286 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: of the Willow cinematic. 287 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: Universe, right right, exactly, the w w C which we 288 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: were all, yeah, we were looking for so what is 289 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: something you think is underrated? 290 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 5: Jason, I'm going to say just physical media, which, by 291 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 5: the way, I don't own any DVDs or Blu rays 292 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 5: any what ones I had I gave away. But when 293 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 5: Netflix had their DVD rental program, they had one hundred 294 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 5: thousand titles they rent they mailed to people. Netflix streaming 295 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 5: service has about six thousand. Yeah, so they lost ninety 296 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 5: four percent of their library for this little incremental gain 297 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 5: inconvenience of well, what's on the man? I just set 298 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 5: in my chair and turn on. It's like you gave 299 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 5: up ninety four percent of your access for not having 300 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 5: to deal with a disk. I find that fascinating. But 301 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 5: that business model, the move from like physical media to 302 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 5: streaming has been bad in almost every possible way, except 303 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 5: for the frequency with which you have to get up 304 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 5: out of your chair to change the disk in the machine, 305 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 5: which we will now not tolerate doing, never will. I 306 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 5: will be damned if I'm going to walk all the 307 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 5: way across the room and put a thing inside the thing. 308 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 5: I want to be able to pull up the show 309 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 5: with my remote from my chair, and for that I 310 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 5: will lose I will lose everything, Right, do you. 311 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 2: Remember the smell of VHS tapes because like the smell good. 312 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 2: I like that. 313 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: Smell burning dust is what I always assumed it was 314 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: burning being heated. 315 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: It smelled good enough that I think it killed some 316 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: brain cells. But yeah, that was I do miss sort 317 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: of just the mechanical sounds too. That came with, like 318 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: you pop in a VHS and then you hear it 319 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 2: working and doing the like, and then it's it's it's 320 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: it's excitement. It's a you know, foreplay to be moving 321 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: watching experience. 322 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 5: There was also that moment when you started to feed 323 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 5: the tape in and the machine would grab it from 324 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 5: you and pull it the rest away in. Yeah, that 325 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 5: was always great because the machine's like, no, I've gotten 326 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 5: in charge. 327 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: Now let me handle this for you. 328 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: This is no longer your problem. But it is a 329 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: little terrifying. It's like, what the fuck what's going on 330 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: in there? 331 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: So we need we need like robots whose job is 332 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: specifically to get a VHS tape and pop it in 333 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: for us, and that'll be the future. 334 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, because we don't we don't like that 335 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: out of control feeling of having the tape taken from us, 336 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: like they've also gotten rid of the ATM machines that 337 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: like pull your card in also, so maybe that's we're 338 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: all just trying to avoid the feeling of like a 339 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: mechanical object being like I get this from here. It 340 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: is wild, Like I I guess I hadn't even really 341 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: thought about the fact that there you could watch anything 342 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: on on like when you had the Netflix DVD service, 343 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: you could watch anything you want like that. That there 344 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: wasn't like a, oh, does Netflix have this, or does 345 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: like where where do I look for this? It was 346 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: is just assumed basically that they were going to have 347 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: almost anything that you wanted. But we've like slowly had 348 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: that taken away from us, and and now it's just like, 349 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, I feel like now every time I google something, 350 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: they're like, you be Youber has this if you want 351 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: to like start your free trial for you bur and 352 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: like get some ads from the Czech Republic in the 353 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: middle of like this Michael Mann film that you want 354 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: to watch. 355 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: Like you were an actual one of them. 356 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: Or no, I think it's a I think there's like 357 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: voododoo to. 358 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 5: Be verb yeah verbo, or that I think verbo is 359 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 5: a vacation rental. 360 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: Yeah verbos yeah, but see, this is this is the problem. 361 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 5: Once upon a time you had cable channels that the 362 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 5: word meant what it was like, this is classic movies 363 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 5: turned classic movies like Boom. 364 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 2: You know what you're getting that history channel. 365 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: A right, Yeah, nope, it's free V. That's as close 366 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: as we get to like it having a meaning, And 367 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't even really make sense. And even then, I 368 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: don't know what which part is free? Is it that 369 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: it's ad free or it has ads in therefore the 370 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: content it's free? Yeah, I don't know. Nobody knows. 371 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: Nobody can't. 372 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: You can't find that out. 373 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 7: Jason, if you're interested. The way you get around that 374 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 7: is by having a flex server. Are you familiar with that? 375 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 5: I have seen people on Twitter every time I bring 376 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 5: this up. Tell me, Yeah, you can get a plex 377 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 5: server and then you can put all of your physical 378 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 5: media on there, and then it just looks the interface 379 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 5: I guess looks just like a streaming service, right, like 380 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 5: you can just take your movie. 381 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, my dad has like eighty thousand movies on his 382 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 7: that will never go away, just so you know. 383 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 384 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 5: See, if I and if I had any sense, I 385 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 5: would have kept my old DV library because I used 386 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 5: to have a bunch like everybody, you know, in the 387 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 5: two thousands, I had shelves of DVDs. I had entire 388 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 5: shows on there that I love that now, I you know, 389 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 5: but again, I gave all that stuff away because it's like, nah, 390 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 5: I'm not a boomer. Yeah, I'm I'm a modern man 391 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 5: with you know, I'm not doing things the old way. 392 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, as a group of people who send him movies 393 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 7: like the like they upload them themselves. They have a 394 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 7: physical copy and they just give it. 395 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 5: And the quality is higher. Like people don't realize that, 396 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 5: Like Netflix doesn't broadcast in blubray quality. It's even what 397 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 5: they're calling four K. They're not streaming. It's not the 398 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 5: way it is off of a physical disk. 399 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, and with like the internet provider, good luck, 400 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: Like even if it is a high quality stream, like 401 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: good luck getting that without it stopping every like half hour. 402 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, that'd be like a twenty five gigabyte file. They're 403 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 5: not going to stream that in real time. It doesn't. 404 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I personally like the image quality of my movies 405 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: to look like they've been water damaged in some way, 406 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: So that's actually what I'm looking for. But I can 407 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: see how people who want high fidelity could I like 408 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: it by that. 409 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: I like it when it freezes and other actors face 410 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: emerges from the face as a frozen actor. That's always 411 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 2: a cool effect. 412 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break and we'll 413 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: come back and we'll talk placebos. 414 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 4: We'll be right back, and we're back. 415 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: And so as we as we started talking about the 416 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: placebo effect again, you know that there was I think, Jason, 417 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: I saw you tweet about the congestion medication, and I 418 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: saw somebody else tweet about how like a lot of 419 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: the studies that assumed the placebo effect was real, we're 420 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: just ignoring reversion to the mean, like you talked about 421 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: like it you know, you will not Your body will 422 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: naturally get better on its own. And so when people 423 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: are responding well to a sugar pill, it might just 424 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: be that they are responding well period, because the human 425 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: body as good at healing itself. But I so the 426 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: thing I've been thinking a lot about, like sort of 427 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: this bridge between body and mind in like the past 428 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: few years with regards to the Havana syndrome, because I 429 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: think I was thinking a lot about the stuff we 430 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: had covered before with placebo effect when when I was 431 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: like kind of going through trying to understand what had 432 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: happened and like how these people were having the experience 433 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: that they were having, which was that they felt like 434 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: they were physically being attacked by like a sound wave 435 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: ray that left them debilitated. 436 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember this. I remember being very skeptical on 437 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: the like onset of this story because I couldn't think 438 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 2: of a ray that would cause such a thing that 439 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: would have no physical signs. But there it's not like 440 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 2: they were just kind of making it up for like 441 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 2: they were. They seemed very much actually suffering, which was 442 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: why I think it caused so much consternation, because it 443 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: wasn't just like a prank. These were like right, you know. 444 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: Those seem to be the two like that. I think 445 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: that is just generally where the two ideas that take hold. 446 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: When you hear like, okay, this sci fi technology that 447 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: scientists say like couldn't really exist is attacking these people. 448 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: You either go with like Okay, everything is what it 449 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: seems there is this sci fi sound ray weapon that 450 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: is attacking people, or these people are making it up. 451 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: And I think, like that's why I was thinking about 452 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: placebos a lot is because it had created this like 453 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: third option, where like the meaning of the story that 454 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: you're telling yourself is actually creating a physical reality, like 455 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: an illness that inside your body that like is a 456 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: as real as like the cold or the flu that. 457 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: But by the way, a fun thing to do is 458 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: to be researching a episode on the plassy bo effect 459 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: and like the mind body connection and also coming down 460 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: with a cold, which I have been for the past 461 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Highly recommend it's a real mind fuck. 462 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: I'm actually just coming out of a cold. So maybe 463 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: I placeboed that like an inception onto you. 464 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think the best description of like what 465 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: I ultimately thought was going on and what I suspected 466 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: before I read this was going on is still this 467 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: like New York Times piece from twenty nineteen. So it wasn't. 468 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't like people had it wrong for a long 469 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: time and then only recently somebody got it right, Like 470 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: this article was written, explained what it was, and then 471 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: people continued on being like, so what are we going 472 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: to do about the Savannah syndrome story? But I just 473 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: want to read this, So they basically say it's a 474 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: functional disorder. It's this meaning based experience that people are 475 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: having where they actually feel the symptoms. The symptoms are real, 476 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: it's just it is happening neurologically. It is not happening 477 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: because they have been physically attacked, and so in the 478 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: article they say for all their mystery. Functional disorders are 479 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: not diagnosed simply after eliminating every possible normal disorder that 480 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: might be causing a patient symptoms. Rather, neurologists look for 481 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: signs and symptoms that are inconsistent, varying even during the 482 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: course of an examination, and incongruent with what they expect 483 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: to see in known objective disorders caused by physical injury 484 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: or illness. One of the most remarkable aspects of the 485 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: diplomat's illnesses the people who are suffering from Havana syndrome 486 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: is that even if all of them experienced an actual 487 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: blow to the head shortly before their symptoms appeared, which 488 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: none of them did, most should have fully recovered in 489 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: a matter of days, weeks, or months, as is standard 490 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: following a minor head injury. Instead, many of them experience 491 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: symptoms that remain steady or worse into over a period 492 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: of months, and some continue to suffer chronic perhaps lifelong symptoms. 493 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: So basically, if they'd gotten hit in the head with 494 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: a bag of rocks or like a sonic weapon, as 495 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: they claimed, they would have healed along a predictable timeline 496 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: because the body is really good at healing itself, because 497 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: it's a machine that is like designed to do that 498 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: like over millions of years, and unless the problem is 499 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: in the mind, in which case it gets complicated and 500 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: it kind of it can linger longer than that. 501 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: But I mean, someone might respond that the Cuban death 502 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: ray just like put some kind of undetectable cancer inside 503 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: their brain or some sort of like thing that is 504 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: a chronic condition. But yeah, but they didn't find anything 505 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: in MRI scans that would suggest any kind of like 506 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 2: structural abnormality in the brain, right. 507 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: They did find like an increasing gray mat like this. 508 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: This story also like made me you know, I've seen 509 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: this elsewhere where. It's like brain scans. Can you can 510 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: get a lot of different interpretations out of brain scans. Oh, 511 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: there's a big story after this one came out that 512 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: was like they say, there's an increased gray matter, so 513 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: they were attacked, And everyone I saw was like, that 514 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean anything. 515 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: Well, right, because the brain. Like also like if it's 516 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: increased activity in parts of the brain that you're detecting, 517 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: that is because your brain is your mind, and if 518 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: you are having a psychological issue, that will actually affect 519 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: your brain's functioning. So it's like your brain, your brain 520 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,239 Speaker 2: and mind is an organ. So it's it's kind of 521 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: it's a weird thing to think about. But even though 522 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: our mind feels very like non physical, very esoteric, it 523 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 2: is a physical organ. So if your mind has some issue, right, 524 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: like you have some kind of psychological issue, that is 525 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: an issue with the organ that is your brain. So 526 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: you will see things on scans potentially, like if you 527 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 2: say you have depression or some other sort of psychological issue, 528 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: like you would actually see evidence of that potentially, not always, 529 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: but potentially you would see the functioning of the brain 530 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: being different in scans. 531 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: That gets to the heart of. 532 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 5: The issue because we have many, many, many things in 533 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 5: society that function the way Havana syndrome does. You have 534 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 5: people who claim that they are allergic to Wi FI 535 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 5: or five G and they can show where they break 536 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 5: out and hide so or they have nervous disorder, they 537 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 5: have tremors in their hands or headaches or whatever. And 538 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 5: again we will our habit to say walts just all 539 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 5: in their head. It's hard to overstate that. Like you said, 540 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 5: they're not faking for attention, the same as people during 541 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 5: witch hunts swore that the local witch cursed them, and 542 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 5: ever since the witch gave them a dirty look, they've 543 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 5: had I can't think straight, I can't sleep. 544 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: I did da da da. 545 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 5: It's like their symptoms are real, witchcraft is not. And 546 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 5: I think the Western idea of the mind being a 547 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 5: mystical thing that exists separate from the body, like in 548 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 5: our body switching movies, where you're somehow two people's minds switched, 549 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 5: but you're in somebody else's body. It's like, well, if 550 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 5: you're if you went. 551 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: Into someone else philosophy, yes. 552 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, if you went into somebody else's brain, you 553 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 5: would just be them. You wouldn't perceive any switch that 554 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 5: happened because it's all it's all there, like it's just 555 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 5: an organ. So I think that actually screws up the 556 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 5: way we think of a lot of health conditions because 557 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 5: if you say, well, it's just all on your head, 558 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 5: it's like, well, you're saying there's magic occurring that somehow 559 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 5: my mind can magic make me break out in hives. 560 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 5: It's like, well, no, your brain's just another organ your 561 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 5: body releasing whatever chemicals or hormones or whatever that cause 562 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 5: you to break out or change color or become inflamed. 563 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 5: It's all just a mechanism. It's gears. It's so it's 564 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 5: like what you're saying, my mere thoughts can cause my 565 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 5: body to do something weird. It's like, well, yeah, I 566 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 5: have irritable vowel syndrome that we treat with an anti 567 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 5: anxiety medication. There's no it's like, oh, so you're you 568 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 5: tricked yourself into pooping your pants. It's like, no, your 569 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 5: gut produces serotonin too. It's it's all part of that. 570 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 5: That mechanism. You regulate serotonin, you're also going to regulate 571 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 5: your digestion. There's a reason you feel anxiety in your gut. 572 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 5: It's not it's not magic. It's just it's all just 573 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 5: nerves and my body. When I aim under a certain 574 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 5: amount of stress, my body takes blood flow away from 575 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 5: the digestion and it doesn't digest very well. That's it, 576 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 5: but trying to fix it is extremely difficult in science, 577 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 5: anyone who's ever gone to the doctor for something like this, 578 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 5: some sort of physical condition caused by they think anxiety 579 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 5: or stress or whatever. It is a frustrating process because 580 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 5: they do seem to just be throwing pills at you, 581 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 5: and they do seem to be trying placebos, because you 582 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 5: will run into people say, well, I've got I found 583 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 5: this cinnamon t that is just it cures my ibs 584 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 5: like nothing else. The thing is, it probably does, and 585 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 5: it's not magic. It's not you know, and the same thing, 586 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 5: this is terrible, treacherous territory, but what he prayed for 587 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 5: me and that cured my ibs. I personally, my belief 588 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 5: is it's the same thing that the belief that you did. 589 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 5: You took action and you did something cured it. It's 590 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 5: not magic. And I if you stop thinking of the 591 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 5: mind as magical, this stuff makes much much more sense. 592 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that the brain gut connection is incredibly strong. 593 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: Like you have neural type cells actually like in your gut, 594 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: and that sort of the relay between your gut and 595 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: your brain is very very strong. It's like why when 596 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: you get nauseous for some reason, you might feel anxious 597 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: and then visa versa. So it's like maybe you have 598 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: nausea for some reason, Like you have food poisoning, right, 599 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: and it starts in your gut, You're gonna feel anxious 600 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: from the nausea. It's going to cause this very strong 601 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 2: reaction in your brain of like, oh my god, what 602 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 2: is wrong? Like when I got food poisoning, I had 603 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: a huge panic attack because I thought I was dying, 604 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 2: and it was just because I had really bad nausea. 605 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: And then vice versa. And when you're anxious, you can 606 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: have very severe gut problems. And it's not like it's 607 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 2: like you have the physical evidence, right, Like it's not 608 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: that diarrhea is imaginary, it's real diarrhea, but it is 609 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: that your brain is actually causing your gut not to 610 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: function properly, and then you get diarrhea. So it's like 611 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 2: it is an organ your brain. The organ is causing 612 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 2: dysfunction in your gut, which it has a very strong 613 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 2: connection with and then you know, voila diarrhea. 614 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and some diarrhea is imaginary, but that's like just 615 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: based in my mind. And we've talked about how I 616 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: should stop talking about that on the show. This sort 617 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: of materialist idea that like a medication is something that causes. 618 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 7: Jason, if you're interested, The way you get around that 619 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 7: is by having a flex server. Are you familiar with that? 620 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 5: I have seen people on Twitter every time I bring 621 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 5: this up, tell me, Yeah, you can get a plex 622 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 5: server and then you can put all of your physical 623 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 5: media on there, and then it just looks the interface 624 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 5: I guess looks just like a streaming service, right, like 625 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 5: you can just take your movie. 626 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, my dad has like eighty thousand movies on his 627 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 7: that will never go away. 628 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 5: Just yeah. See, if I, if I had any sense, 629 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 5: I would have kept my old dv library because I 630 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 5: used to have a bunch everybody, you know, in the 631 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 5: two thousands, I had shelves of DVDs. I had entire 632 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 5: shows on there that I love that now I you know, 633 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,959 Speaker 5: but again I gave all that stuff away because it's like, nah, 634 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 5: I'm not a boomer. Yeah, I'm I'm a modern man 635 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 5: with you know, I'm not doing things the old way. 636 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, as a group of people who send him movies 637 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 7: like the like they upload them themselves. They have a 638 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 7: physical copy and they just give it a duplicates of it. 639 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 5: And the quality is higher. Like people don't realize that, 640 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 5: like Netflix doesn't broadcast in blubray quality. It's even what 641 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 5: they're calling four K. They're not streaming. It's not the 642 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 5: way it is off of a physical disc. 643 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, and with like the internet provider, good luck, 644 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 2: Like even if it is a high quality stream, like, 645 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: good luck getting that without it stopping every like half hour. 646 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, that'd be like a twenty five gigabyte file. They're 647 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 5: not going to stream that in real time. 648 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 4: It doesn't. 649 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I personally like the image quality of my movies 650 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: to look like they've been water damaged in some way. 651 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: So that's actually what I'm looking for. But I can 652 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: see how people who want high fidelity could. 653 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 2: I like it. I like it when it freezes and 654 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 2: another actor's face emerges from the face as a frozen actor. 655 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 2: That's always a cool effect. 656 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 657 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: A chemical to go into your body and that chemical 658 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: interacts with the chemicals that are already there to make 659 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: you better or make you feel different in psychoactive drugs 660 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: like like that That's how I've I came to think about, 661 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: like when I thought about medicine or like the medical world, 662 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: Like that's totally what I thought of, And I think 663 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: that that is somewhat unique to our modern condition. Like 664 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: what one of the articles that I read for this 665 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: was talking about how Ben Franklin was like really fascinated 666 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: by the subject of placebos, and he said, like one 667 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: of the best doctors he knew told him that he 668 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: like handed out bread pills and like food colored water 669 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: much more than real medicine. But like not not to 670 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: like prank people, like we said it was because he 671 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: was a good doctor and was able like knew that 672 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: there was a healing component to the belief that people held, 673 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: and that the meaning that getting a medicine from a 674 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: doctor who actually you know, has a career's worth of 675 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: bedside manner and like confidence and reassurance like built up 676 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: and like has a gift for this sort of specific 677 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: interpersonal human connection. Like that all of that working together 678 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: with a bread pill that allows you to like focus 679 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: all of all of that meaning into something and like 680 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: take it inside your body. Like that that works. But 681 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: I feel like in the modern world, if a doctor 682 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: went on a show and was like, yeah, I'm giving 683 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: all these people bread pills and securing them like they 684 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: would be you know, people would demand their medical license 685 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: be taken away. 686 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: Being bread pilled sounds like some kind of weird Internet 687 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: ideology like yeah, can be red pilled, but you can 688 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: be bread pilled, where you're like bread is better than 689 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: dating people. 690 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: It kind of is in a lot of cases. 691 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, god, bread is so good. I mean 692 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: it's interesting because like it we're talking both about the 693 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: placebo effect, which is like the bread pill, uh, and 694 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 2: then the the like the Cuban brain wave is a 695 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: no ciebo, so like no cebo is a type isn't 696 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 2: a specifically an effect where it's actually negative, So like 697 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 2: it's been a treatment that should have no effect actually 698 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: has a negative effect, or an imagined treatment or something 699 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 2: has an effect on someone, so like they've actually there's 700 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: actually been research on the no cebo effect in terms 701 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: of like when people take say a sugar pill or 702 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,479 Speaker 2: a dummy pill when they're testing medications, Like if they're 703 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 2: told it has a specific side effect, there's a good 704 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 2: chance they're going to actually feel that side effect. That recently, 705 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: I mean somewhat recently, with like testing the COVID vaccine, 706 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: there was like a review of the literature that found 707 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 2: that like the no sebo effect of the sham covid vaccine. 708 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 2: So this was like this was just essentially saline in 709 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 2: a vaccine, Like over seventy percent of these participants, Like 710 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 2: the negative reaction to the vaccine was accounted for by 711 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 2: the no sebo effect for the sham vaccine. So a 712 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 2: bunch of people were like, oh, yeah, I have my 713 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 2: arms sore, like I feel bad, and it was after 714 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 2: they got a completely fake inert COVID vaccine. 715 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen very dramatic videos of people show off 716 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: their horrifying symptoms from what they thought was the vaccine. 717 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: And we've seen social contagion of like people with eye twitches, 718 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: like even before there was the vaccine conspiracy theory of 719 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: like young people on TikTok like having weird twitchy reactions 720 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: and like claiming, you know, not not really knowing where 721 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: it was from. Not not as part of like some 722 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: QAnon conspiracy, but just they're like, social contagion is real, 723 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: and yeah, there's a long, long history of it. All right, 724 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: let's say, let's take another quick break and we'll come 725 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: back and finish this out. And we're back, and just 726 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: a few things I wanted to hit, So like that, 727 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: there is this one experiment where they figured out people 728 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: who were particularly susceptible to placebos, and they then like 729 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: during the course of a experiment, gave them a thing 730 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: that like blocked the opioid receptors in the brain, and 731 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: the placebo effect cut off, which means that's so cool. 732 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 2: I mean, it's that's super weird. 733 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird, but it's basically it makes sense when 734 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: you realize when you think about the fact that, like 735 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: the brain is like its own pharmacy. It's creating the dopamine. 736 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: You know, the like add medication and stuff like that, 737 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: or you know, they're illegal drugs that cause your brain 738 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: to like make more dopamine that like make you feel 739 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: even better. But your brain is creating its own dopamine 740 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: on its own schedule. 741 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 2: My brain is my favorite dealer. 742 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, your brain is its own like drug dealer slash pharmacist. 743 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: And you know that then doctors get involved when like 744 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: it's not doing the job that it needs to do. 745 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: But you know that what is happening in like that, 746 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: This study would suggest that what's happening when people experience 747 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 1: the placebo effect is that your brain is producing the 748 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: actual chemical that the medication is supposed to be producing. 749 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: It just didn't need the medication to actually be in 750 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,919 Speaker 1: the pill to get you to to get the brain 751 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: to do the thing that your body kind of knows 752 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: it needs in that moment. So I mean, from that perspective, 753 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: like being susceptible to placebo is such is such an 754 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: amazing like superpower where it's just like, oh, yeah, my 755 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: body and brain can just like make these medications for. 756 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 2: Me, right, And it's not I think it's important to 757 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 2: note it's not like gullibility. It being able to get 758 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: the effect of a placebo is not that like you 759 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 2: are stupid or gullible. There's like a study on seeing like, oh, 760 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 2: are people who are easily hypnotized also like susceptible to placebo? 761 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: And there was no connection there either. It just seems 762 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 2: to be a thing that like affects almost everyone in 763 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 2: terms of being able to you know, benefit or suffer 764 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 2: from the placebo or no cebo effect. 765 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, we understand. We understand so little of this because 766 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 5: listen listening to what you guys say, think about how 767 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 5: difficult it is to study this and how difficult it 768 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 5: is to set up an effective trial that perfectly filters 769 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,919 Speaker 5: out every possibly confounding thing that could be some form 770 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 5: of placebo or no cebo effect. This is why our 771 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 5: mental health medications have barely improved in the last fifty 772 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 5: years or something like that. It is unbelievably difficult to 773 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 5: nail down the effectiveness of something like an antidepressantory anti 774 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 5: anxiety because again, Pacibo's work really well for anxiety. When 775 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,720 Speaker 5: you have somebody telling you, well, my anti anxiety pills, 776 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 5: I go work in my garden, they're not lying. Like 777 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,720 Speaker 5: repetitive motion, exercise, sunlight. Those are physical things that affect 778 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 5: all of those biological reactions to anxiety. They're not being 779 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,360 Speaker 5: a hippie. And you know, I don't you sound like 780 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 5: a scientologist. We start ranting about how ineffective these medications are, 781 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 5: But the truth is you get about seventy five percent 782 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 5: of the same effect from a pasebo for mild depression, 783 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 5: because of course you do it. You know, if you've 784 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 5: got some whatever fancy tea that's supposed to really you know, 785 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 5: calm you down, just the ceremony of making it and 786 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 5: give you a loaner, the ceremony of making it, sitting down, 787 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 5: drinking something hot, drinking it slowly. There's yeah, that can 788 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 5: have most of the effect of a medication without the 789 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 5: terrible side of the issue is that is such an 790 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,720 Speaker 5: incredibly dangerous thing for people to hear because some people 791 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 5: who have very severe symptoms who definitely need prescription medication, 792 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 5: they tend to be the ones who's like, see, I 793 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 5: don't need that voodoo. It is incredibly difficult to nail 794 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 5: down the effectiveness of any of these because, as you 795 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 5: just said, like that, we even now have doubts about 796 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 5: exactly what's placebo and what's just no treatment at all. 797 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 5: Depression is just like a lot of those things we 798 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 5: mentioned earlier. It cats better and think about all the 799 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 5: factors in a person's life that can improve their mood. 800 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 5: It's like, we have three months, three months on these 801 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,399 Speaker 5: sugar pills, and my depression went away. Also, I got 802 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 5: a different job and the boss that terrorized me is 803 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,879 Speaker 5: no longer in my life. And also my chronic knee 804 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 5: injury stopped hurting, so I didn't have the chronic pain 805 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 5: weighing on me. It's like, which of the four million 806 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 5: factors in a human life caused your depression to go away? 807 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 5: And us people who to sound smart, who like to say, well, 808 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 5: it's all just brain chemicals it's all just serotonin or 809 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 5: whatever that is that is boiling it down. That's simplifying 810 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 5: it so much as to make it wrong, right. 811 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 2: I mean, it's like it's true that it's like all 812 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 2: brain stuff, but your brain responds very well to your environment. 813 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 2: So environmental things are going to have a massive effect 814 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 2: on your brain. Like you know, your general habits, what 815 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 2: your life is like, what you're eating, what you're doing, 816 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 2: what you're thinking. All these things just kind of like 817 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 2: form this like cyclone that can really affect your state 818 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 2: of mind. It's also really difficult with the studies on 819 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 2: medication for like say, depression, anxiety, et cetera, because the 820 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 2: like everyone's brain is very different, so the heterogeneity effects 821 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 2: in these studies are just very hard to compensate for. 822 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 2: Like a medication that works really well for someone may 823 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 2: not work at all for another person even though they 824 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,280 Speaker 2: both have depression, because one person's depression and another person's depression. 825 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 2: It's not like a you know, simple like disease. It's 826 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 2: not like a broken bone where it's like, okay, you 827 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 2: can kind of like the procedure for healing a broken 828 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 2: bone for one person another person is generally somewhat similar 829 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 2: but for something like depression, it's like you have a 830 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 2: totally different thing going on from one person to the next, 831 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 2: given how complicated the brain is and how like broad 832 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 2: spectrum something like depression is in terms of what's causing it, 833 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 2: what's going on, And I mean the same can be 834 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 2: said for a lot of like non psychological disorders as well, 835 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 2: Like there are a lot of diseases where it's like, well, 836 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 2: treatment for one person seems to work before another person 837 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 2: does not work at all because their bodies are different 838 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,720 Speaker 2: and their systems are different. So it's like a huge 839 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 2: challenge in medicine. 840 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 5: Even if they were genetically the same, which they're not. 841 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 5: Are their diets different, are their sleep patterns different? Is 842 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 5: their home life different, is their social lives different? Do 843 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 5: they have different numbers of friends? All those things can 844 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 5: impact how your brain works exactly. 845 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 2: I mean, your brain structure changes over time based on 846 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 2: your environment. It's not like you're born sort of with 847 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 2: a baby brain and then it goes like it's genetically 848 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 2: programmed to turn into an adult brain. Like you're born 849 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 2: with the very plastic brain that responds incredibly sensitively to 850 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 2: your environment and what happens to you. 851 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, the two examples that jumped out to me this 852 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: time doing the research on the side of like just 853 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 1: a straightforward plas ebo effect, like this is a pill 854 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,879 Speaker 1: causing you to do causing your body to do a thing. 855 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 1: It's still like the pill color things is still like 856 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,839 Speaker 1: so mind blowing to me. Like they gave a group 857 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: of medical students two new drugs, one a sedative and 858 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,799 Speaker 1: the other stimulant, and like they were given either one 859 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,839 Speaker 1: or two blue or pink tablets, and the tablets were 860 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 1: all inert they were sugar pills, but the students' responses 861 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,400 Speaker 1: on a questionnaire indicated the red tablets or pink tablets 862 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: tended to act as stimulants, while the blue ones acted 863 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: as depressants, and two tablets had more effect than one. 864 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: And it's not it doesn't really make sense, but like 865 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: you can't boil it down to anything that is like 866 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 1: happening other than with like meaning like pink or red 867 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: means like hot or danger, and blue means like cool 868 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: and quiet, and right. 869 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 2: Blue means cool ranch stritos, Red means flame. 870 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: And hot nacho cheese. Yeah, exactly. And that's why I 871 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: wake up to get wake up in the morning, I 872 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: eat nacho cheese and to go to bed and I 873 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: eat cool ranch. 874 00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. 875 00:49:59,360 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 876 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,479 Speaker 5: Giving an example even without an experiment. I know people 877 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,799 Speaker 5: who will drink an espresso or drink an energy drink, 878 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 5: and while they're drinking it, we'll talk about how wired 879 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 5: they are, like, oh my. 880 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 4: Gosh, it's hitting me. 881 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,319 Speaker 5: Well, it takes forty five minutes for caffeine to enter 882 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 5: the bloodstrein. Yeah, that's you. You drinking the red Bull 883 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 5: and after two gulps is like, oh my gosh, I 884 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:20,880 Speaker 5: can feel it hitting me. It's like it's like you 885 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 5: didn't inject it into your vein. You drink it. It 886 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 5: has to be absorbed into your system. But that's paceibo effect, 887 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 5: you know. And if you if you felt it that soon, 888 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 5: you just told yourself. So think about did you need 889 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 5: the energy drink at all? If you can talk yourself 890 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 5: into bouncing off the walls because you thought that, oh 891 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 5: my gosh, the whole eighty whole milligrams of caffeine has 892 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 5: slammed into my system, which by the way, is not 893 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 5: very much. And I personally believe making the can big 894 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,360 Speaker 5: and with a big, loud, stupid name like C four bomb, 895 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 5: sickle and it's got like a stick a dynamite on it. 896 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,839 Speaker 5: I think that helps the policy. In fact, I think 897 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 5: you drink a big, bombasty can of something. It's like, man, 898 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 5: this is gonna hit me like a freight train. I 899 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 5: think it can have it could be decaf, and I 900 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 5: think it would hit you mostly the same way. 901 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want an energy drink that's just called brain 902 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,239 Speaker 2: bone or juice. 903 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: Your brain is gonna fuck so hard. And then the 904 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,279 Speaker 1: other example that's kind of in the other direction was 905 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,799 Speaker 1: they looked at the cause of death between Chinese Americans 906 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,600 Speaker 1: and randomly selected group of white people in California, and 907 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,560 Speaker 1: it was found that Chinese Americans, but not the white people, 908 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: will die significantly earlier than normal if they have a 909 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: combination of disease and birth year, which Chinese astrology and 910 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,760 Speaker 1: medicine consider ill fated. And so it's you know, Chinese 911 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: Americans whose deaths were attributed to lymphatic cancer and if 912 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 1: they were born in Earth years and consequently were deemed 913 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,280 Speaker 1: by Chinese medicine like especially susceptible to diseases involving lumps, 914 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: not nodules or tumors, had an average death age like 915 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: four years younger than people who were not born in 916 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: one of those years, and no such you know difference 917 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: existed among the group of white people. So it's just 918 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,799 Speaker 1: and that that was true across Like I don't know 919 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of what Chinese medicine believes and 920 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: like what the different year meanings are, but like it 921 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:44,800 Speaker 1: just it feels like very strongly determined by like meaning 922 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: and like the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves 923 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: and that like we like exist within and so I 924 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: don't know, it's I find that one like kind of 925 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: hopeful in a way because like you can I don't know, 926 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,720 Speaker 1: like tell yourself stories and like sort of free yourself 927 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: from some of the stories that we tell ourselves that 928 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,359 Speaker 1: it can be damaging about ourselves. Like like what there 929 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: was also a study where they told people the truth. 930 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,399 Speaker 1: They were like, this is a placebo effect study, and 931 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,920 Speaker 1: like the truth is that like placebo effects have been 932 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,000 Speaker 1: shown to like help people, and like that it had 933 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: clear like positive results just by being honest, which I 934 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,200 Speaker 1: always thought like an important part of the policicibo effect 935 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:36,800 Speaker 1: would be the lying, but apparently not, which doesn't really 936 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:37,520 Speaker 1: make sense to me. 937 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 2: But like, like rituals I think can really have a 938 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,799 Speaker 2: strong effect, like you put the pill in your mouth 939 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 2: and you swallow the water, and even if you know 940 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 2: it's a placebo, you've still done the ritual in your body. 941 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 2: You may still have sort of this like connection to 942 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 2: the ritual and feeling better. So it's you know, it's 943 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 2: like if you've ever found like a calming routine, like 944 00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 2: some kind of meditation routine or calming routine that you do, 945 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,240 Speaker 2: like once you sort of get into the typical position 946 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 2: that you're in, that it's like, well, I start listening 947 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 2: to music, I sit on the couch or something. Once 948 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 2: you practice it and do it a bunch, it works better, 949 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,239 Speaker 2: Like meditation or calming yourself down, like works better once 950 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 2: you've practiced it, because once you start to do it, 951 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 2: you make the association between like, well, once I when 952 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,319 Speaker 2: I light this candle or listen to this music, I 953 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,839 Speaker 2: start to feel calm. And then it's like, even though 954 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,360 Speaker 2: you know it's not like medicine, yeah, you've come to 955 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 2: associate the ritual with feeling better, but yeah, with the 956 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 2: with the that study on like the zodiac or wait 957 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 2: is it zodiac? 958 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, che medicine like that right, It's it makes. 959 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 2: Me think about when we when someone has a disease 960 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,800 Speaker 2: and they're given a timeframe for like how much longer 961 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,320 Speaker 2: they have to live. I've always had mixed feelings about that, because, 962 00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,080 Speaker 2: on one hand, I think it's good right to like 963 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,800 Speaker 2: prepare people for like, hey, you know you have terminal cancer, 964 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,399 Speaker 2: so you might want to like prepare and get your 965 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 2: affairs in order and all this. But having a time 966 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,839 Speaker 2: frame in a way also seems like you are kind 967 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 2: of potentially negating any kind of like placebo effect of like, 968 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 2: well if I can like you know, like maybe this 969 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,480 Speaker 2: thing will kill me eventually, But then if you feel like, well, 970 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,399 Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to die in like a year or 971 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 2: X months, I wonder if that has an effect on 972 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 2: like how long you actually have. It's not to say 973 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,720 Speaker 2: that the diagnosis is incorrect or that's something like terminal 974 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 2: cancer you can just think your way out of, but 975 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 2: there is something on the margins in terms of like 976 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,680 Speaker 2: how healthy you are and continue to be based on 977 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,319 Speaker 2: your mind frame. Right, So it's like I don't think 978 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,400 Speaker 2: you could beat a terminal diagnosis through some kind of 979 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,040 Speaker 2: placebo effect, but I could imagine your quality of life 980 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,040 Speaker 2: and your lengths of time left could be affected by 981 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 2: whether you feel completely doomed or not within a certain 982 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:09,879 Speaker 2: period of time. 983 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,520 Speaker 5: Right, I think you stumbled on a big, big thing 984 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 5: in our society, which is, for example, to me, it 985 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,560 Speaker 5: is not surprising at all the yoga cures all sorts 986 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,799 Speaker 5: of things. You're stretching, it's you've got you a room 987 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,280 Speaker 5: to see the silent or with white noise or with music. 988 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 5: It's something you often do in a group where a 989 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,640 Speaker 5: bunch of people all doing something in sync. You know, 990 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 5: we humans are social animals. That has its own benefit. 991 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 5: It does not surprise me that that helps cure all 992 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 5: sorts of things. None of us stretch enough and just. 993 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,040 Speaker 5: And it's also its exertion. You know, it's very strenuous. 994 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,920 Speaker 5: If you've never done yoga before, it will kick your ass. 995 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,200 Speaker 5: You don't. It's not just stretching like it's holding difficult positions. 996 00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:00,759 Speaker 5: But part of yoga is that there's a religion around basically, 997 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 5: and it's all of this stuff that I know is 998 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 5: on scientific about Well, this stretch will release any financial 999 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,520 Speaker 5: stress in your life, because financial anxiety tends to store 1000 00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,000 Speaker 5: in your hips. Or you've got to realign your chakra. 1001 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,720 Speaker 5: You've got the mystical spiritual energies and the body. Thetans 1002 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 5: have to be released through your spine. So the question 1003 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 5: is does the mythology make it work better? And once 1004 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,080 Speaker 5: you apply it, think about yoga, you think about all 1005 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 5: of the other things in society where we tell people 1006 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,600 Speaker 5: a story to get them to behave a certain way 1007 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 5: and the story is not true, but it is effective 1008 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,080 Speaker 5: at healing that we're making them healthier. And what are 1009 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 5: the ethics of that? Because, for example, it is my 1010 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,480 Speaker 5: understanding that studies has consistently found that placebos work better 1011 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 5: when they are expensive. Yeah, because you don't want to 1012 00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,520 Speaker 5: feel like you wasted your money. So the ethics of 1013 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,680 Speaker 5: selling somebody a powder of ground up shark bones or 1014 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,200 Speaker 5: something and this is going to cure you anxiety And 1015 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 5: it's like, well, actually, people don't just buy it once. 1016 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,400 Speaker 5: They buy it for years because they swear, they swear 1017 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 5: by it it works. Yeah, I would like to accuse 1018 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 5: those people being thieves, but are they right? 1019 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 2: We should start like making it not like shark bones 1020 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,840 Speaker 2: and stuff, because sharks are endangered in some cases and 1021 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,080 Speaker 2: it's bad, but like animals that we hate, we should 1022 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,680 Speaker 2: make up stories about their bones and blood and stuff 1023 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,120 Speaker 2: being good like, hey, ground up mosquitoes are an aphrodisiac 1024 00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,160 Speaker 2: because like, who cares they kill a bunch of mosquitos, 1025 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 2: or like an invasive species of like you know, like hey, 1026 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 2: the crowd of the crowd of thorns, starfish. You know 1027 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,880 Speaker 2: they're invasive, but if you grind them up, it'll give 1028 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 2: you a boner. Like let's let's let's like, let's start 1029 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 2: making shitty animals the ones that we turn into medicine. 1030 00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think a lot of supplements are 1031 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,520 Speaker 1: mostly sawdust. By the way, Like when they tell what's 1032 00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,080 Speaker 1: actually in there, they're like, oh, this is. 1033 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 5: Well, yes, yeah, this is just things like saying because 1034 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,800 Speaker 5: it's not regulated, that doesn't have to go through the FDA, 1035 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 5: and because it also doesn't do anything so who hears. 1036 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:13,840 Speaker 1: But if you buy Saint. 1037 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,680 Speaker 5: John's Word or Jen Singh or any of that stuff, 1038 00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,960 Speaker 5: you'll often find that the amount in a pill is 1039 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 5: somewhere between ten percent or four hundred percent of what 1040 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 5: it says in the label because they're not being precise 1041 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,840 Speaker 5: about it, because you can't overdose on it because it's 1042 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,840 Speaker 5: just just an herber or whatever. 1043 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also just like medicine is a relatively news science. 1044 00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 2: I know we think of it as being very old, 1045 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 2: but it wasn't that long ago that we were like 1046 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 2: cutting holes in people's skulls and thinking that would like 1047 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,200 Speaker 2: take the demons out. 1048 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: And it did sometimes, and. 1049 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 2: It sometimes trepening, sometimes worked. It's not to say, you know, 1050 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,400 Speaker 2: like I don't think any of us well I don't 1051 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:55,840 Speaker 2: want to speak for anyone, but I don't think any 1052 00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 2: of us believes that like medicine is bs. Like I think, 1053 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,360 Speaker 2: you know, if your doctor is like, hey, you need 1054 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,520 Speaker 2: treatment for this thing, you shouldn't be like, yeah, right, jerk, 1055 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,680 Speaker 2: like there are like medicine. Modern medicine is pretty incredible 1056 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 2: in terms of how it actually like we have actually 1057 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:19,600 Speaker 2: figured out how certain proteins interlock with other proteins and 1058 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 2: that it affects your body, and that's incredible. But it's 1059 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,080 Speaker 2: also I think there's this separation of like, all right, 1060 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,720 Speaker 2: here's the real, hard, physical medicine, and then the brain 1061 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 2: the mind stuff, which is just kind of like you know, 1062 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,680 Speaker 2: like hippie dippy brain stuff. It's not real. And I 1063 01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 2: think that's I think that's a big problem. Like I 1064 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:48,640 Speaker 2: think that a lot of things could be accomplished if 1065 01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,920 Speaker 2: we kind of didn't have this disconnect between like the 1066 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,960 Speaker 2: body's health, the like the body and the brain, and 1067 01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,040 Speaker 2: this like separation of like, well there's real medicine and 1068 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 2: and there's like you know, like just sort of mind 1069 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,600 Speaker 2: over matter, you know, silly stuff. And I think combining 1070 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,760 Speaker 2: the power of modern medical advancement and the understanding of 1071 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,920 Speaker 2: how the brain impacts the body can help in a 1072 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,680 Speaker 2: lot of ways, like you know, preventing like over medicalization 1073 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 2: of things, but also treatment of things that do need medicine, 1074 01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,680 Speaker 2: but could also use like the idea that you know, 1075 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,960 Speaker 2: you treat just the thing that's happening in the body 1076 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,120 Speaker 2: without addressing sort of the psychological impacts I think is 1077 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 2: kind of limited. 1078 01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,960 Speaker 5: I also think we have unrealistic expectations of medicine compared 1079 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 5: to where we are. But we think everything should be 1080 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,920 Speaker 5: be able to have an instant diagnosis. Here's what it is, 1081 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,000 Speaker 5: here's the pill that fixes that. Including things that are 1082 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,000 Speaker 5: like well, I'm fatigued all the time. It's like, well, 1083 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,160 Speaker 5: what else do you have going on your life? As like, wow, 1084 01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,680 Speaker 5: I work three jobs and I have a big right 1085 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,000 Speaker 5: and I need you to give me a pill that 1086 01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,840 Speaker 5: will make my fatigue go away or you know this 1087 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 5: is Ask any therapist and they will have the patient. 1088 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,600 Speaker 5: It's like, I'm depressed. I need the treatment for depression. 1089 01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,280 Speaker 5: It's like, oh, when did your depression star Approximately, well, 1090 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,360 Speaker 5: when my wife died and then my dog died six 1091 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,760 Speaker 5: months later, and then I lost my job because of 1092 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,920 Speaker 5: my I was so sad about my wife dying, and 1093 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,480 Speaker 5: now I got kicked out of my apartment. And it's like, Okay, 1094 01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,880 Speaker 5: your life is a disaster. You want a pill that well, 1095 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,040 Speaker 5: and I think that you know, it's not it's stupid 1096 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,880 Speaker 5: to say we have too much faith in science. It 1097 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,680 Speaker 5: is unfair to ask a pill to fix that. You 1098 01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 5: have a long mountain to climb of getting things back 1099 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,160 Speaker 5: in your but your body is telling you, you know, man, 1100 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,840 Speaker 5: this sucks. It's not because your brain's producing too much 1101 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,440 Speaker 5: of a chemical. It's because your life is a disaster. 1102 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 4: It just is. 1103 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:53,920 Speaker 5: Your life is not as good as it was before, 1104 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 5: so it is part of it is. It's funny because 1105 01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,840 Speaker 5: you have part of the population who refuses to believe 1106 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,800 Speaker 5: in science or vaccines, but then you have another part 1107 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,000 Speaker 5: of the population that, for example, thought that the moment 1108 01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,120 Speaker 5: they invent a vaccine for a disease that are just 1109 01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:12,520 Speaker 5: vanishes overnight. It's like the truth is, these are inventions 1110 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 5: by humans. They're not magic. They're miraculous and since compared 1111 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,200 Speaker 5: to what we were able to do three hundred years ago. 1112 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 5: But no, sometimes you're going to go to the doctor 1113 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,680 Speaker 5: and the doctor's going to say we don't have a 1114 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,640 Speaker 5: way to fix this yet, and usually patients do not 1115 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,439 Speaker 5: take that as an answer. They demand a to walk 1116 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,680 Speaker 5: out of there with a prescription, and lots of times 1117 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,640 Speaker 5: they just gave you something to make you go away, 1118 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,240 Speaker 5: right because it's like, we don't know how to fix 1119 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,720 Speaker 5: this yet. It's just that's the situation. 1120 01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,800 Speaker 2: I've literally like felt, oh man, I'm so fatigued. Am 1121 01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,640 Speaker 2: I sick? And then I realized it's nighttime, it's bedtime. 1122 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,959 Speaker 2: I have to go to sleep. I'm like, oh god, 1123 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,240 Speaker 2: am I coming down with something. It's like, well, no, 1124 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:54,920 Speaker 2: it's midnight, and I should. 1125 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,120 Speaker 1: Go to bed this nighttime fatigue disorder. 1126 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,480 Speaker 5: And I did the normal thing where I looked at 1127 01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,920 Speaker 5: my phone for four hours after I went to bed, 1128 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 5: and I woke up the next morning feeling like crap, 1129 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,479 Speaker 5: I'm coming down with something. 1130 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:10,040 Speaker 1: That's happened all right, Well, Jason Katie such a pleasure 1131 01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,080 Speaker 1: having you guys on the show, Jason, Where can people 1132 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,760 Speaker 1: find you? Follow you? All that good stuff. 1133 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,240 Speaker 5: Then the book that is up for preorder now is 1134 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:22,640 Speaker 5: called Zoe Is Too Drunk for This Dystopia. It's part 1135 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,040 Speaker 5: of a sci fi series and the Zoe Ash novels. 1136 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,480 Speaker 5: Just look up that title and it will also show 1137 01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,200 Speaker 5: you the other books in the series if you want 1138 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,200 Speaker 5: to read those. I am Jason K. Pargan on TikTok 1139 01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,400 Speaker 5: and all of the other platforms, including the stupid ones 1140 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,400 Speaker 5: that nobody goes to, like the. 1141 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,800 Speaker 1: Red You're everywhere amazing. Is there a work of media 1142 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:46,760 Speaker 1: that you've been enjoying? 1143 01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,680 Speaker 5: Yes, I linked here for you. There's a muscular lumberjack 1144 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:55,440 Speaker 5: on TikTok named Thor Bradley, and he just chops stumps 1145 01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,160 Speaker 5: for his videos and they get like one hundred and 1146 01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,640 Speaker 5: fifty million views. He's one of the most famous people 1147 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,680 Speaker 5: in the world world apparently. And he's just a very 1148 01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,280 Speaker 5: muscular man who chops who chops stumps. 1149 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,280 Speaker 2: With an axe just like an innuendo chopping stumps. Is 1150 01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,520 Speaker 2: this some kind of like sex thing that I don't 1151 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 2: know about? 1152 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,440 Speaker 5: Oh no, watch the video you'll get it. 1153 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, chopping literal stumps. 1154 01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:21,080 Speaker 5: You'll get it immediately. He has he has many female 1155 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,120 Speaker 5: fans and uh, but also it's many male fans. And 1156 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:28,400 Speaker 5: there's just a big, muscular, sweaty man who chops wood 1157 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,480 Speaker 5: for his videos. And you watch him until he finally 1158 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,520 Speaker 5: gets through, you know, chopping the wood, and you feel 1159 01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:35,400 Speaker 5: a little bit better. 1160 01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,760 Speaker 4: He is a hero. Wow. 1161 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:42,040 Speaker 1: It is nice once that once that stump finally chops. Fine, 1162 01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,160 Speaker 1: when once he finally splits the stump, Oh man, that 1163 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,120 Speaker 1: was my favorite part. 1164 01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,440 Speaker 5: There are entire There are entire movies that I've watched 1165 01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,960 Speaker 5: that cost two hundred million dollars to film that did 1166 01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,280 Speaker 5: not provide me as much satisfaction as watching for chop 1167 01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:57,440 Speaker 5: his way through that stump. 1168 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 2: It makes me think about what the stump resents. 1169 01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:02,560 Speaker 1: I couldn't even begin. 1170 01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,560 Speaker 5: With Whatever you want, whatever obstacles in your life, if 1171 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,680 Speaker 5: you just they keep at it, you can get through them. 1172 01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,560 Speaker 2: And he's I'm going to say that, I'm going to 1173 01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,840 Speaker 2: say it represents a sex but a sex but yeah, 1174 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,080 Speaker 2: sex but some kind of sex but thing situation. 1175 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,080 Speaker 1: Really interesting, take, really interesting read, Katie. Where can people 1176 01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,240 Speaker 1: find you as their working media you've been enjoying? 1177 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I have a podcast on this very 1178 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,680 Speaker 2: network called Creature Feature where we talk about animals. I've 1179 01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,120 Speaker 2: actually had Jason on my show too, so yeah, we 1180 01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,880 Speaker 2: have good, good discussions about animal behavior and sometimes how 1181 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,480 Speaker 2: it relates to human psychology. I just started a TikTok 1182 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 2: it is Katie Golden k A T I E G 1183 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:52,800 Speaker 2: O L D I N. I'm doing some animal content 1184 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,000 Speaker 2: on there, a game I play where I have you 1185 01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,400 Speaker 2: guess what animal noise and animals making it is. I'm 1186 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,400 Speaker 2: brand new, I have like no followers, so if you 1187 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,160 Speaker 2: check that out, I'd be very grateful. And I think 1188 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm Katie Golden on other stuff too. But you know, 1189 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,880 Speaker 2: like on the Musk site, which you know is becoming 1190 01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,160 Speaker 2: less and less usable every day. The media that I 1191 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 2: like is from the Musk site. It is from Twitter 1192 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:29,000 Speaker 2: user pe Moskowitz, who writes for sale baby Shoes Never 1193 01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,120 Speaker 2: Worn is the saddest story ever told in six words, 1194 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 2: here's a sadder one in four baby died from exploding. 1195 01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:41,360 Speaker 4: That's pretty good. 1196 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:44,160 Speaker 1: That story is actually kind of awesome though, unfortunately. 1197 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1198 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:50,280 Speaker 1: You can find me on the Musk site, Twitter at 1199 01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: jack Underscore O'Brien and on threads at jack underscore, Oh, underscore, Brian, 1200 01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,919 Speaker 1: although I don't I haven't checked that in maybe a month. 1201 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:06,000 Speaker 1: Tweet I've been enjoying. I liked p Puck just tweeted 1202 01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,120 Speaker 1: a collection of cute designs from the distant past, and 1203 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,200 Speaker 1: it's just like really cute. Like one of them looks 1204 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,400 Speaker 1: like a sad character from Bluie but it's from fourth 1205 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,559 Speaker 1: century BC, like a, it's just adorable stuff. I don't know, 1206 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:25,879 Speaker 1: so sometimes I, you know, like for the thinking about history, 1207 01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 1: like doctors in history just being like, yeah, here's a 1208 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,920 Speaker 1: blue pill that I just died, and like it makes 1209 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: you better. Like I tend to think of people from 1210 01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,479 Speaker 1: history being like stoic people who try to walk off 1211 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,559 Speaker 1: a compound fracture and had no joy in their life. 1212 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:46,400 Speaker 1: And this, this collection of cute designs from the past 1213 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,000 Speaker 1: made me made me smile warm to my heart a 1214 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,799 Speaker 1: little bit. And then I also enjoyed a tweet from 1215 01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: the writer at Jason K. Pargan, who responded to a 1216 01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,080 Speaker 1: CNN tweet Say and Bob Barker, the beloved television picture 1217 01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,320 Speaker 1: who hosted The Prices Right for decades, has died. He 1218 01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,800 Speaker 1: was ninety nine, and Jason wrote the rumors that he 1219 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,920 Speaker 1: was going one hundred and sixty miles per hour at 1220 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,160 Speaker 1: the time of his fatal motorcycle accident are not confirmed 1221 01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,439 Speaker 1: and people should not be spreading them. Same with the 1222 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,560 Speaker 1: rumors that he was swinging a flail at other drivers. 1223 01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:23,360 Speaker 1: Wait for confirmation. I've enjoyed that. Well done? All right? 1224 01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at daily Zeigeist. We're 1225 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,280 Speaker 1: at d daily Zeikeeist on Instagram. We have Facebook fanpage 1226 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:31,760 Speaker 1: and a website Daily zeikeist dot com boy. We post 1227 01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,840 Speaker 1: our episodes and our footnote but where we link off 1228 01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,599 Speaker 1: to the information that we talked about in today's episode, 1229 01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 1: as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. 1230 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:44,439 Speaker 1: Super producer justin Welcome Back, is there a song that 1231 01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,599 Speaker 1: you think people might enjoy? 1232 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,720 Speaker 7: Yeah, So there's this new artist who just popped up 1233 01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,400 Speaker 7: on my radar a couple weeks back. She's an amazingly 1234 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,439 Speaker 7: talented singer songwriter with a very powerful voice and a 1235 01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,080 Speaker 7: real knack for writing songs that just get stuck in 1236 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,320 Speaker 7: in my head all day. I played this track for 1237 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,920 Speaker 7: Miles actually the other day, and he was commenting on 1238 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,400 Speaker 7: how she kept finding interesting little paths in the melody 1239 01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 7: where she didn't repeat herself too much, and I just 1240 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 7: really respect someone who can bring that kind of talent 1241 01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,040 Speaker 7: to the table. So this artist goes by the name 1242 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,960 Speaker 7: of Annie Tracy, and this track, by far and Away 1243 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,280 Speaker 7: is my favorite that I've heard from her so far, 1244 01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,800 Speaker 7: but all of her tracks are incredible. This one is 1245 01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,880 Speaker 7: called times It by two and it's got a really 1246 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:35,000 Speaker 7: nice R and B vibe. It builds to something very 1247 01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,559 Speaker 7: powerful and I loved the message behind it. So this 1248 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,120 Speaker 7: song is called times It by Two by Annie Tracy, 1249 01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:42,960 Speaker 7: and you can find that song in the footnotes. 1250 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,200 Speaker 1: All right, Well, the Day lesaik As is the production 1251 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,559 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit 1252 01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,880 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio ap Apple podcast or wherever you listen to 1253 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:51,479 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us 1254 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,400 Speaker 1: this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, 1255 01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:58,120 Speaker 1: and we will talk to you all then Bye.