1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:11,040
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, Oh my stars, Chris Watts.

2
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:11,480
Speaker 2: The killer Dad.

3
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 1: Can you just be quiet, go away, go serve your

4
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840
Speaker 1: life sentence and shut your pie hole.

5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 2: You know what, that's not possible.

6
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 1: In the last days, so called killer Dad Chris Watts.

7
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 1: I ain't to even say his name. It tastes like

8
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:34,879
Speaker 1: dirt in my mouth. I'll say his wife's name, Shenanne Watts, beautiful, loving,

9
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 1: hard working, supporting the family, mother of two little girls,

10
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,879
Speaker 1: Celeste and Bella. They were murdered too, mother to be

11
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 1: a baby, Nico, her first son. They're all dead thanks

12
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 1: to Dad Chris watts motive to be with one of his.

13
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 2: Many many lovers.

14
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 1: But in the last Days, emerging in the headline again

15
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: go Away and his twisted prison letters claiming he's a

16
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,959
Speaker 1: quote new man and that God has forgiven him for

17
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 1: murdering his pregnant wife and both of his daughters.

18
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 2: Did God tell him that?

19
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 1: I don't know? I mean, is he grace? This is

20
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:24,320
Speaker 1: Crime Stories? Thank you for being with us. I ain't

21
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,120
Speaker 1: even look at him. Why do women think he's attractive?

22
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,480
Speaker 1: He looks like the devil to me, absolutely, the devil

23
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: killer Dacris Watts now claims he is a quote new

24
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,199
Speaker 1: man and God has forgiven him this, as he writes

25
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 1: in prison for really horrific crimes and the disposal of

26
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: his wife and little girls. As I recall it, the

27
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 1: Anna Darko oil well grounds where he worked, his wife

28
00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 1: endured coffin birth. I don't know if in dear is

29
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 1: actually the right word. After she died, she gave birth

30
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,919
Speaker 1: and her makeshift grave to baby Nico, who of course

31
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: also died. I'm all for forgiveness. Lord knows I need

32
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 1: it to.

33
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 3: Dear.

34
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 1: Lord.

35
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 2: I hope you're listening to that.

36
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 1: And I think that if he seeks forgiveness, he will

37
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,040
Speaker 1: get forgiveness from God.

38
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 2: I do believe that he can also.

39
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 1: Right behind Mars at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive.

40
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

41
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 1: The killer insists he is a quote new creature in

42
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 1: recent handwritten letters to a female pen pal, A new creature,

43
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 1: A creature. Yes, I don't know how new he is.

44
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:52,640
Speaker 2: Quote.

45
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,919
Speaker 1: I have always taken full responsibility for what I did. Okay,

46
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 1: right there, that is a lie. He did not always

47
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: take responsibility. In fact, he lied about it and begged

48
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: for his wife's return, knowing full well he had murdered

49
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,519
Speaker 1: her and the two little girls that Nico had been

50
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: still born because of the murders, and he had disposed

51
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: of their bodies and the worst way. You know what,

52
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 1: let's have a little reality check. This is what happened.

53
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't care if he says I've taken full responsibility

54
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: for what I did. I want you to hear the

55
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 1: husband as he begs for help.

56
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:34,519
Speaker 2: I just want them back.

57
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 4: I just I just want them to come back. And

58
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 4: if if they're not safe right now, that's that's what's

59
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 4: tearing me apart. Because if they are safe, they're come back.

60
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 4: But if they're not, this this has got to stop.

61
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 4: Like somebody has to come forward.

62
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 2: Somebody come forward.

63
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: The husband begging for help at that point, trying to

64
00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: find his wife. She's gorgeous, a million dollars smile, long,

65
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: brunette hair, Shannon Watts. I'm looking at a photo of

66
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: her right now with her two daughters, Celeste just three

67
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: years old, Bella just four. Straight out to Ellen Calaura

68
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 1: joining us with Crime online dot Com. Ellen, I want

69
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 1: to start at the beginning, as this whole thing unravels.

70
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,839
Speaker 1: Tell me about Shannon's new job.

71
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 2: I want to start with.

72
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 5: That Shannon was having a lot of success selling weight

73
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 5: loss patches through multi level marketing company, and part of

74
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 5: what a multi level marketing job is recruiting more salespeople.

75
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 5: So she was posting on Facebook all the time showing

76
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 5: how well she was doing. She was getting a car allowance,

77
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 5: so she's got a Lexus. She's going on work funtored

78
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 5: vacations all the time. She's working really hard, but she's

79
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 5: also having the time.

80
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,560
Speaker 6: Of her advice and xpos.

81
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,839
Speaker 5: This with what we later learned that the family had

82
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,280
Speaker 5: been having financial trouble and they had for bankruptcy in

83
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,479
Speaker 5: two thousand and five, and Chris had reportedly told some

84
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 5: neighbors pretty recently that they were thinking about selling the whole.

85
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: Uh oh.

86
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: Now here's a mom who has been devoting her entire

87
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 1: life to raising the two little girls, Celeste and Bella,

88
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 1: and then they hit hard times. The dad is no deadbeat,

89
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,240
Speaker 1: he's been working too, so they fall on hard times

90
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 1: and they have to get out from under staggering debt

91
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: by filing bankruptcy.

92
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 2: She manages to land a.

93
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 1: Job at about eighty thousand dollars a year, but part

94
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,600
Speaker 1: of that job is having to travel away from her children,

95
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,280
Speaker 1: which she hated. She would leave for work and I

96
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: believe this country they call it health supplements. This eighty

97
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: thousand dollars job. She had a lot of trips to

98
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,919
Speaker 1: Mexico and Dominican Republic. Her work often took her away

99
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: from home, and that leaves the husband, Christopher Watts, at

100
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 1: home with the two little girls. During this time, she

101
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: gets pregnant and they are looking forward to the birth

102
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: of the first boy in the family. Also with me

103
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: renowned pathologist and medical examiner, doctor Michelle Dupree, and forensics

104
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville University and

105
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet To you, Ellen Kilaurn,

106
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 1: have you ever noticed realtors, Okay, realtors always have beautiful cars.

107
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm convinced they're all leased by the way.

108
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: Beautiful cars, beautiful clothes, beautiful jewelry. And I guess it's

109
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,559
Speaker 1: part of the image they need to project. I mean, Ellen,

110
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 1: if you're going to go look at an apartment or

111
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,120
Speaker 1: look at a house, you don't want to get in

112
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: a car that doesn't crank up. It's all ratty and

113
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,679
Speaker 1: disgusting insight a right, So so I'm not judging people

114
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 1: on their cars, but it's a facade that they need

115
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: to present. This Mom got this job and had to

116
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 1: present this facade exactly.

117
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 5: It's part of the job to make it. It's part

118
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 5: of the presentation, to make the whole experience seem like

119
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 5: something that you want to participate in. Her job isn't

120
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 5: just selling the weight loss patches, it's also selling other

121
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 5: people taking the kind of job that she has. She's

122
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 5: recruiting as well, so she has to protect project an

123
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 5: image that makes us look very, very enticing.

124
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: So she starts this job, and even amidst the new

125
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: job where she's really having to work and travel out

126
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 1: of town away from her two kids, they still are

127
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: considering selling the house.

128
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 2: Ellen, Yeah, they.

129
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 5: Ever told a reporter that just this week that Chris

130
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 5: has kind of off handedly mentioned that they were considering

131
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 5: selling the house. So it's really hard to say what

132
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 5: their financial situation was like. It seems like obviously there

133
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 5: had been some trouble in the past, but after they

134
00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 5: filed for BANKERCP is when Shandan got this job, and

135
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 5: also Chris had been working at the petroleum company, so

136
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 5: they're both working, but it's her. They've got two children,

137
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 5: They've got another on the way. That's a lot of

138
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 5: financial pressure. It's hard to know how easily they really

139
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 5: were making nat because, like you said, a big part

140
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 5: of Shannon's job was making the job look really, really

141
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 5: attractive to other people.

142
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 1: All we know is that, well, what was his job?

143
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 2: What was his job? Christopher Wats's job?

144
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 5: You work for a petroleum company. You've been working there

145
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 5: since at least twenty fifteen.

146
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,200
Speaker 1: I want to get back to her going missing Ellen.

147
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: When did that happen? Give me the timeline. She had

148
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 1: just gotten.

149
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,200
Speaker 5: Back from yet another work trip on early in the

150
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 5: Monday morning hours.

151
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 2: Wait, I want to close something up.

152
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 1: I want to clearse something up with me, Doctor Michelle Dupree,

153
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, also New York psychiatrist, doctor Judith Joseph.

154
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if you have to travel

155
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,320
Speaker 1: for work, doctor Michelle Duprey. But it sounds so glamorous.

156
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: It's not glamorous, like this woman went to New Orleans, Toronto,

157
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,840
Speaker 1: Punta Kinda, Dominican Republic, Puerto Valerta, Vega, San Diego. When

158
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: you travel for work, doctor Michelle Duprie, it is not glamorous.

159
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 1: I typically get off of a plane. I go straight

160
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 1: to the work site, dragging my beat up suitcase behind me,

161
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 1: and I get there.

162
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 2: I work.

163
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,719
Speaker 1: I work late because I want to hurry and work

164
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 1: as lady as I can so I can get back earlier.

165
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 1: End up spending the night in a hotel, grab something

166
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: on the way, and then I get up as quickly

167
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: as I can, sometimes at three or four in the

168
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 1: morning to get to the airport to get back home.

169
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,199
Speaker 1: That's not glamorous, doctor Michelle Duprie, You're.

170
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 2: Exactly right, Nancy.

171
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,719
Speaker 7: It is not very timing and you are worn out

172
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 7: by the time you can hunt.

173
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 2: So tell me this.

174
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 1: She gets back Ellen from one of these trips, and

175
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 1: what happens.

176
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,840
Speaker 5: She gets back late, early in the hours of Monday morning,

177
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 5: he goes to work at five am. Apparently they stay

178
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 5: up together for three or four hours talking, and he

179
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 5: admitted that it was an emotional conversation. So that's going

180
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,959
Speaker 5: to be a really big question in this case. What

181
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,679
Speaker 5: was going on in that quote unquote emotional conversation. Well,

182
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 5: so she wasn't seen again after that.

183
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when one partner travels a lot. To

184
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:25,719
Speaker 1: Doctor Judith Joseph, renowned New York psychiatrists joining us. That's

185
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,840
Speaker 1: very hard. As a matter of fact, doctor Judith went,

186
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: my husband traveled constantly.

187
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,160
Speaker 2: He would leave on.

188
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 1: Sunday night and get back if I was lucky on

189
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,440
Speaker 1: Friday night. Our entire relationship. When we had the twins,

190
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,680
Speaker 1: I said, listen, son's got to give. I cannot work

191
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,319
Speaker 1: and be on call for crime related stories twenty four seven,

192
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 1: three sixty five, and you be gone. It's just it's well,

193
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,560
Speaker 1: you know what. He started his own business so he

194
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 1: could name his own hours. But doctor Judith, not everybody

195
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 1: is that fortunate to be able to just go run

196
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:07,439
Speaker 1: out and start your own business.

197
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 2: And it's hard when one.

198
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 1: That's very stressful in a family with two taughts and

199
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: another on the way, for one parent.

200
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 2: To be gone all the time.

201
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,960
Speaker 1: I guess they did have an emotional conversation.

202
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,719
Speaker 6: I agree with you, Nancy. You know, traveling is hard

203
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 6: on anyone, to even people who don't have children. Stuff

204
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 6: us on depression, anxiety, sleep disorders related to extensive traveling.

205
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 6: And so then when you put that stress into the

206
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 6: mix with two young children, a husband who's sharing the

207
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 6: brunt of things, and you know, traditionally in our society,

208
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,320
Speaker 6: some parts of this country are still very very traditional.

209
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,280
Speaker 6: It's not common for the mother to leave the home,

210
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 6: and so lot there probably were a lot of feelings there,

211
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 6: and you know, sometimes people become in the community about

212
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 6: about this, and so I'm not sure what was happening

213
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 6: with this then in particular. However, you're absolutely right. Travel

214
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 6: is stressful, and when one parent has to stay behind

215
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,599
Speaker 6: and one partner has to be behind, sometimes the imagination

216
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 6: goes wild, and their accusations of jealousy and infidelity, and

217
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:18,599
Speaker 6: we don't know what was happening in this family.

218
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

219
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 1: Also in Chris Watts's letters, he says, as I mentioned,

220
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 1: I've always taken full responsibility for what I did the

221
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 1: rest of that sentence, even though I was misled by

222
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 1: a wicked woman. He seems to be blaming his mistress

223
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 1: for him murdering his family. Now, is that taking full responsibility? No,

224
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 1: it is not. And ps which mistress are we talking about?

225
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,480
Speaker 1: There have been so many in their disappearance and murders.

226
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 4: Her flight got delayed from Arizona because father storms around

227
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,079
Speaker 4: the nation. You're supposed to get home like a and

228
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,439
Speaker 4: then she got home at like one. If she came

229
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 4: home from the airport two am and I left around

230
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 4: five point fifteen. She was still here, and like about

231
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 4: twelve ten in that afternoon, her friend Nicole showed up

232
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 4: at the door. Like I had texted Shan a few

233
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 4: times that day, called her say you know, but she

234
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,080
Speaker 4: never got back to me. But she wasn't get back

235
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 4: to any of her people as well. And that's what

236
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 4: really concerned a lot of people, is like she's not

237
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 4: getting back to her Like if she doesn't get back

238
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,959
Speaker 4: to me, that's fine, Like she gets busy during the day,

239
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 4: but she get back to her people, which was very concerning.

240
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 4: And Nicole called me when she was at the door,

241
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 4: and that's when they came home and then walked in

242
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 4: the house and nothing vanished. Nothing was here. I mean,

243
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 4: she wasn't She wasn't here, the kids weren't here, nobody

244
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:43,560
Speaker 4: was here.

245
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: We are discussing the case of Shannon Watts. We want justice.

246
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 1: Shannon goes missing along with her two children, Bella and

247
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: Celeste little Toss, and to top it all off, Shannon

248
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: is pregnant. I recall covering a case and I learned

249
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,600
Speaker 1: a startling statistics. I believe it was from the New

250
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: England Journal of Medicine that the number one cause of

251
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 1: death amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. The

252
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: number one cause of death. It's not heart failure, it's

253
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 1: not stroke, it's not anything you may imagine. It is homicide.

254
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 1: Very disturbing, joining me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, Joseph Scott Morgan

255
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: doctored jud Joseph and Ellen Calaurin.

256
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,840
Speaker 2: So, Ellen, she goes missing.

257
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 1: We just heard the husband, Christopher Watts, begging for help

258
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: to try to find her.

259
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 2: I'm thinking this, Sooth.

260
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: It's not like she'd run away with another man and

261
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: bring the two little girls, Bella and Celeste with her. Also,

262
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 1: she came home that night, she got home from out

263
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 1: of town. She has this discussion, probably related to the

264
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 1: out of town trips she had to take. The husband

265
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: is her work at five am. She's alive and well. Then,

266
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 1: so how does she turn up dead and where?

267
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 2: Ellen?

268
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 5: Far as I know, there were not any accusations of

269
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 5: infidelity on her part, but apparently she did venture to

270
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 5: a friend at one point that she was wondering if

271
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 5: maybe her husband was being unfaithful.

272
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 1: Well, according to and Yes, yes, Mark Garrigos, my colleague

273
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: defense attorney for Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Winona Ryder. He'll

274
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 1: tell anybody a cheater a murderer does not make and

275
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: he's absolutely right. But I can tell you this, when

276
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: you have a happy family and a happy marriage, the

277
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 1: husband's not waiting in the shadows to push the wife

278
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 1: over a cliff.

279
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 2: I know that much.

280
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 1: I also know this problems allegedly servicing just in the

281
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: past two months because a coworker of Shannon's mom said

282
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 1: they may have been added for divorce. Right when they're

283
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: turning the corner, Doctor Judith Joseph, the New York psychiatrist,

284
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: is joining us. They yes, they went bankrupt in twenty fifteen,

285
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: but they recently had enjoyed these lavish trips and alexis automobile.

286
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: Thanks to her new job.

287
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 1: It took out of town a lot, and then problems

288
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 1: began to surface at home. And looks like they're turning

289
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 1: the corner on all their financial problems when she goes missing, Judith.

290
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I think that that's the statistic that you

291
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 6: mentioned about pregnant women and homified being any more on

292
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 6: cause of that. That's so significant and people don't realize

293
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 6: this that partners, people who are not pregnant husbands, they

294
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 6: also experienced post part of depression and stress. And it's

295
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 6: not the same cause it's not hormonal. There's a lot

296
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 6: of transitions that people have to see when they having

297
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 6: multiple children, and you add the stress of finances, you

298
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 6: add ertal pressure and maybe a third party as someone

299
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 6: who's engaging in adultry, and then people explode. And you know,

300
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 6: I don't know this family in particular, I haven't treated

301
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,439
Speaker 6: any of them. However, it sounds like they were trying

302
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 6: to create this facade disappearance that things were okay, and

303
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 6: clearly things were not okay.

304
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 1: Well, another thing, dot you the Joseph as due to Joseph,

305
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 1: everybody has those problems. Everybody that is married with the

306
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 1: family will have children to take care of, jobs, financial pressures.

307
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 1: And she certainly was never accused of having a sex

308
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: relationship with anybody else.

309
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 2: So why does she go missing?

310
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: And what does all of that have to do with

311
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 1: her body being discovered?

312
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 8: Now?

313
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: I can tell you this much to Joseph Scott Morgan,

314
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I just don't think men do as

315
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 1: well as good a job as women do raising she and.

316
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 2: Here he is taking care of these two children.

317
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: Ellen, how does it go from him taking care of

318
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 1: the children and now she's dead and goes missing?

319
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 2: Ellen, Come on fast forward.

320
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 5: Ellen, this is a husband who had financially struggled in

321
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 5: the past. He's at home alone with two daughters. His

322
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 5: wife is having a lot of success. They have another

323
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 5: baby on the way. He could have been under a

324
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 5: lot of stress, and he may have felt that his

325
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 5: role had been diminished in the family.

326
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: Well, and I'm asking you, I'm not concerned about his

327
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 1: male ego. Ellen. She's dead and now let me just

328
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: Q and A with myself here.

329
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 2: Isn't it true? Cops believed she was killed.

330
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 1: In her home and then her body moved to and

331
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 1: a Darko Oil and gas drilling properties?

332
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: Who worked there? May I ask you that, Ellen?

333
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,160
Speaker 1: Who do we know work at Anna Darko Oil and

334
00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: Gas Drilling?

335
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: Name one for Chris Watt? Thank you.

336
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about, Doctor Michelle, Do pre help

337
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 1: me out here? Pathologists, medical examiner, you know what you

338
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 1: and I talk about. When somebody kills, they very often

339
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: will do it or dispose of the body in a

340
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: place they are familiar. And I always point to Scott

341
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 1: Peterson he's a fisherman. He goes fishing in San Francisco

342
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 1: Bay all the time. He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats.

343
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 1: He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats. It's like rents

344
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,640
Speaker 1: and repeat on the back of your shampoo. He fishes,

345
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: he golfs, and he cheats. Where is lazy his dead

346
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: wife and unborn child Connor in San Francisco Bay because

347
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: he's comfy there, he goes and dumps the bodies there,

348
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle, you see it over and over.

349
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 7: Exactly, you really do.

350
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 2: We love it when they're dumb.

351
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. And here we've got in a Darco Oil and

352
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 1: Gas drilling one of those properties where the husband christ

353
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: her wants works and want to come and Joe Scott Morgan,

354
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 1: I need expertise from you regarding how they might know

355
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 1: the mom and the two little girls were murdered in

356
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: their own home.

357
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 4: I called her three texted her about three times just

358
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 4: to say, you know, what's going on? Like I didn't

359
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 4: I could for that for the After I called her

360
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 4: and texted her once, it was like maybe she was

361
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 4: just busy, like she had just gotten back, you know,

362
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 4: like everybody's probably calling her from her trip. She just

363
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 4: got back from Arizona, and I figured this she was busy,

364
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 4: but when her friend showed up, that's what it was like,

365
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 4: it registered like, all right, this isn't.

366
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: Right right now.

367
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 4: I don't even want to just like throw anything out there,

368
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 4: like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and

369
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 4: with the kids. But I mean, could she event could

370
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 4: she just taken off? I don't know. But if somebody

371
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 4: has her and they're not safe, like I want them

372
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 4: back now like that that that's with them. I like,

373
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 4: if they're safe right now, they're going to come back.

374
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 4: But if they're not safe right now, that's the not

375
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 4: knowing part. Like if they're not safe. Last night I

376
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 4: was had everybody in the house on I was hoping

377
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 4: that I would just get just ran over by the

378
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 4: kids running in the door and just like Beryl rushing me.

379
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 4: But it didn't happen, and it was just a traumatic

380
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 4: night trying to be.

381
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: Here Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He also says in

382
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: these letters, quote, I know God does not see me

383
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: as a sinner who killed his family. I don't think

384
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: you should be speaking for the Lord Almighty. He says,

385
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: I've confessed my sins, I am forgiven. Okay, that's between

386
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: you and the Lord. But you are not getting out

387
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: of jail again. You being forgiven by heaven is not

388
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive, with you staying behind bars and rotting till

389
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: the day you die. Let's have a little fat check.

390
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: This is what happened to Shenan, Bella, Celeste and Nico.

391
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: Just remember his.

392
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: Two little girls, Bella four and Celeste three, were in

393
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: his truck as he carried their mom's body to hide

394
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: it at the oil fields where he worked. He suffocated

395
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: the two little girls one by one as they begged

396
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: for mercy and stashed their bodies in oil drums. In

397
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: addition to multiple handwritten letters, mostly about himself, he shared

398
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: his thoughts with an inmate, Dylan Tauman, a president in

399
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: Wisconsin who befriended Watts. Taman was in a cell next

400
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: to wattson the two became friends jail buddies. Tauman actually

401
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 1: released a series of books titled The Cell next Door.

402
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: He says, what's confided that his mariage to Shanan was unhappy. Really,

403
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 1: then where did the three children come from? What's wine

404
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: that Shanan was quote really busy with her job, and

405
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: that he was often the quote primary caregiver to his daughters.

406
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: So Wats claims when he lost Wade and started working out,

407
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: women started paying attention to him, and he quote met Nicole.

408
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: She was quote everything my wife wasn't like with me.

409
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: She was just nice and not a control freak. What's

410
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: also trashed Nicole Kessinger, claiming she Nicole quote became the

411
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: death of me. He also called her a quote Harlot

412
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: and a quote Jezebel who led him to destruction. Oh okay,

413
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: so now he's blaming his mistress. Okay, it's her fault

414
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: that Shannan, Bella and Celeste and the baby boy Nico

415
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: are all dead.

416
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 2: He wrote a prayer of.

417
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: Confession, Chris quote, the words of a Harlot have brought

418
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: me low. Her flattering speech was like drops of honey

419
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: that pierced my heart and soul. Little did I know

420
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: that all her guests were in the chamber of death.

421
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: Can you believe this guy? What happened? I don't want

422
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: anybody to get some of those texts, like they have

423
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this days and they're just.

424
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: Like between you and Chris, Yes, they're just they're just

425
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: so just tell me what you're they're just kind of

426
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: ron She okay, well need anybody.

427
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 9: Everybody's an adult. We're gonna somewhere.

428
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 4: I don't need that.

429
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: I don't want the papers to get that.

430
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 6: That's all I want.

431
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 9: But the only one that we would be looking for

432
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 9: again is the same kind of questions we're getting to here,

433
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 9: is things about his children, things about his wife, the

434
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 9: questioning of did he ever you know, has he ever

435
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 9: said something to you that might indicate maybe not then,

436
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 9: but now that there was something like this in his mind,

437
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 9: or you know what we're looking for. I don't need

438
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 9: to come out and tell you that.

439
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: You are hearing the alleged mistress of killer dad Chris Watts.

440
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: And even in light of the fact that his wife,

441
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 1: his pregnant wife, and two little girls were found dead,

442
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: the mom Shenan Watts buried in a shallow grave, the

443
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: two little girls found in.

444
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: That's of oil.

445
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: She's still whining about how she doesn't want to hand

446
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: over her cell phone to investigators because there are quote

447
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: raunchy texts. Unless you want it on page six of

448
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: the New York Post, do not put it in writing,

449
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: and really don't even say it. If it's something you're

450
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: ashamed of or something you don't repeat it, just don't

451
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: say it for Pete's sake.

452
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: And she is impeding a.

453
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: Homicide investigation because she doesn't.

454
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: Want the world to see her.

455
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: Raunchy texts like I care about her raunchy texts. Well,

456
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: in the end, she did not the investigation. She handed

457
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: over the phone at Let's take a listen to Nicole Cassinger,

458
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: the girlfriend the mistress that finally comes forward two days

459
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: after Shania's disappearance, after she read newspaper articles.

460
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 10: Listen on Tuesday, which would have been the fourteenth of August.

461
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 10: You had read some newspaper articles on the thirteenth and

462
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 10: the fourteenth.

463
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 11: Regarded this case.

464
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 10: You had also had a conversation with Chris at some

465
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 10: point during the day on Monday and on Tuesday because

466
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 10: of what you found. Specifically what you said was and

467
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 10: I don't know many put words in your mouth, but

468
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 10: you found out that his life whispering, and I yes,

469
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 10: and you did not know that prior, and you found

470
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 10: that out via the newspaper articles, and that caused you concern.

471
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: Well, I just realized that he was lying to me,

472
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: and I was like, well, if you can lie to

473
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: me about this? What else do you lying to me about?

474
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 3: And it made me realize that maybe his wife was

475
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 3: in danger at that point and it was too and

476
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: she still wasn't home.

477
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 9: What did that cause you to do with your phone?

478
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 6: Though?

479
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 3: Oh? When I deleted those, I was just kind of

480
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 3: grossed out by him, To be honest with you, I

481
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: was just like, I don't know what's going on right now,

482
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: but you just lied to me, and I don't want

483
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: to see this come over my phone anymore, so I

484
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 3: removed it.

485
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 10: So you just you already said, but you reroot text messages.

486
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me.

487
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it was.

488
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: It was the hurt that made me delete it, and

489
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 3: then it was the lie that made me start questioning

490
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: everything else he'd been telling me for the last few days.

491
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 10: And that's when you decided to come forward.

492
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: Yes, you are hearing the voice Nicole Kessinger Killer Dack.

493
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: Chris Watson is the mistress during this time, joining me

494
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: right now in addition to Susan Constantine, Vincent Hill, Ashley Wilcott.

495
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: Also with me is Ellikilaur and Crime online dot Com

496
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. You say there are inconsistencies, and isn't it

497
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: true she has some very unusual computer searches as well.

498
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 5: Well, that's exactly right, Nancy, and the computer searches are

499
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 5: what I see as some inconsistencies. As you hear in

500
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 5: her discussions with the investigators, she talks about her relationship

501
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 5: with Chris as one where he was more serious about

502
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 5: her than she was about him. She says repeatedly she

503
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 5: encouraged him to try and save his marriage. She said,

504
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: he has such a beautiful family, why not hold on

505
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 5: to this, this beautiful home. She says repeatedly that she

506
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 5: encouraged him to stay married and work on his marriage.

507
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 5: But once there was a data review of her phone,

508
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 5: it looks like maybe there is some inconsistencies. She had

509
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 5: spent two hours online of doing a Google search for

510
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 5: wedding dresses.

511
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: She wait, is this the same woman that searched for

512
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: anal sex preparation?

513
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 5: That is correct?

514
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 6: Yeah?

515
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny how you gloss over the hard

516
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: parts and you make me say them. Okay, in addition

517
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: to the frothy wedding dress, I'm the one that has

518
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: to blurt out the anal sex searches.

519
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: Thanks Ellen, What else do we find on her searches?

520
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 5: She definitely she did a search related to terms marrying

521
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 5: your mistress.

522
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: Uh, well, wha, wha, wha what? What did you say?

523
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 5: She did it? She did a Google search term search

524
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 5: of terms related to the phrase marrying your mistress?

525
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: Is it?

526
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: So she did a search on how much she could

527
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: make if she wrote a book like Amber Fry.

528
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: She yeah, I don't think it was specifically how much

529
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 5: can I make if I write a book? But she

530
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 5: absolutely was interested in She did Google searches on Amber

531
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 5: Fry and her book deal and oh.

532
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: Her Okay, let me remind everybody who is Amber Fry.

533
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: Amberfry was the miss stress of Scott Peterson. Amber Fry

534
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: did not know Scott Peterson was married to a pregnant woman.

535
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: Amberfry then cooperated completely with police and actually caught Scott

536
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: Peterson in damning cell phone conversations, wire tapping.

537
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: Him and as a matter of fact, there was a.

538
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: Fear that Peterson would come kill her, but she stuck

539
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: it out and she was a star witness at the trial.

540
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: It turned everything around into Scott Peterson prosecution and the

541
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: murder of his pregnant wife. Lacey and their unborn child, Connor.

542
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: So you know, here you hear Nicole Kessinger going, wow,

543
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: I don't want you to find out to release my

544
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: rawchy text. Amber Fry put it out there and completely

545
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: cooperated with police. She volunteered to cooperate with police and

546
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: was a star witness. She then later wrote a book

547
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: and I hope she made a lot of money.

548
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: Off that book.

549
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: God bless her to Susan Constantine deception body language expert.

550
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: You know, I've got to give it to Nicole Kessinger.

551
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: Without her cooperation, this case may not have cracked the.

552
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: Way that it did.

553
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: But according to Ellen Klora, and there's a lot of inconsistencies.

554
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, there are a lot of inconsistencies. And the thing

555
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 7: is is that it needs they need to go back

556
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 7: and be able to verify the information that she's given them.

557
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 7: But for overall, you know, when I'm listening to her, Nancy,

558
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 7: there's a lot of truth in what she's saying.

559
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: So the issue was.

560
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 7: Hard to come over is her lack of emotion. You know,

561
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 7: her emotion aspect is just completely off. She's very cavalier.

562
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 7: Her tone of her voice can is really off putting.

563
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 7: And so she really sets herself up for people to

564
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 7: really scrutinize her because her personality is shining through about

565
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 7: how she you know, how how she sees the entire

566
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 7: situation and she how detached that she is. The part

567
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 7: that bothers me the most is that she is trying

568
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 7: to pretend like, hey, I'm coming in, I'm the savior,

569
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 7: work things out with your wife, but yet she's kind

570
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 7: of like pushing them away, but then kind of motioning

571
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 7: to come closer. So she's she's very manipulative.

572
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: At one point, he told me that they sat down

573
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 3: and they talked about it, and he told her that

574
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: he wanted to either fix things or like to try

575
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 3: to fix things, and if she didn't want to fix them,

576
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: then they needed to move forward with the separation and

577
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: like actually file for a divorce at this point was

578
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 3: the impression that I got from.

579
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: This and was what he told me.

580
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 6: And so.

581
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: He said that she was like pretty receptive to just

582
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: not trying. He was like, she seemed like she just

583
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: wants me to go. He's like, when she has her

584
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: mind made up, she has her mind made up and

585
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 3: that's what she wants. And he's like, she doesn't want

586
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: to try anymore, and he's like, and neither do I

587
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: really And he was like it's done, and he's like

588
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: and then and the next day, I don't even know

589
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: what daisies were. Sometime when he was out there, he

590
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 3: told me.

591
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 4: We're putting the.

592
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: House up her sale as soon as we get back.

593
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, that was quick, and he

594
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 3: was like, it's her, she's ready to go, and I

595
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: was like, okay.

596
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 12: It's the dramatic moment tops confront Chris Watts's mistress after

597
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 12: he murdered his pregnant wife and two daughters to start

598
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 12: a new life with her.

599
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 6: Why would you.

600
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 12: Why your family to be The just released video shows

601
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 12: thirty year old Nicole Kessinger being interrogated did you.

602
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 9: Ever see anything with him about her or never? Anything

603
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 9: about his kids being a problem, or anything about his.

604
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 5: Wife being a pro never?

605
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 4: This shocked me just as much as I think get

606
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 4: shocked the rest of the world.

607
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 12: She breaks down sobbing over the gruesome fate of the children,

608
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 12: four year old Bella and three year old Celested.

609
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: Ugh, he's so disgusting. I'm so ashamed of why?

610
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: Whoa?

611
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: Why? Why?

612
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 11: How?

613
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't even understand how you could bring yourself to

614
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: do that somebody who's like that. Bit you are hearing

615
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: girlfriend Nicole Kessinger, and you were hearing our friend at

616
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Inside Edition, Jim Murray Susan Constantine Deception of body language expert.

617
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: What do you make of that where Nicole Kessinger the

618
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: Mistress breaks down in tears.

619
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 7: Well, it came on very sudden, so that's the one

620
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 7: thing that I look for, and also how quickly she

621
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 7: recovers after it. So that's what I'm looking at, is

622
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 7: that it's not unusual for someone just to break down,

623
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 7: But when you listen to her voice, there is there.

624
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 7: I'm listening for these kind of breaks or pauses and

625
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 7: the voice, but I'm not really hearing that. I'm not

626
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 7: saying that she does not feel that way. I think

627
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 7: that she does. But what bothers me the most is

628
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 7: how quickly the onset of that emotion was and then

629
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 7: how quick it ended that because there should be remnants

630
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 7: of it throughout Once she has finished making that statement,

631
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 7: you should still hear her voice foil cracking up afterwards.

632
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 7: So even though she's emotionally upset, she quickly gets over

633
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 7: it awfully fast.

634
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: That's suspicious to me.

635
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: To Ellenclaurincrime online dot Com investigative reporter, you mentioned inconsistencies.

636
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: What other inconsistencies have you discovered? Because I think not

637
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: only was she genuinely upset about the best of the

638
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: deaths of Belle and Celeste, but also was distancing herself

639
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: because if she had known anything about this murder plot,

640
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: she would have been erupted in at doing jail time

641
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 1: right now.

642
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 5: Yes, One thing that I want to make clear is

643
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 5: that even though there are some inconsistencies in her story,

644
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 5: it's also very clear that Chris Wats lied to her.

645
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 5: She did not know Shannan Wats was pregnant, and he

646
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 5: told her that Shannan was gritty ready to leave the marriage,

647
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 5: when that is a one.

648
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: Hundred percent not true.

649
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 7: We see that.

650
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 5: However, there's one other incident of the interrogation when Nicole

651
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 5: tells Poliefe that she never told any of her friends

652
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 5: or anyone about her relationship with Chris because it was

653
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 5: very early on and she was still, you know, working

654
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 5: through a separation. But that ended up not being the case.

655
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 5: She did have a text message exchange with a girlfriend

656
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 5: about her relationship with Chris, but and she called investigators

657
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 5: the next day and told them.

658
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: That alexis Terreschuk not just the girlfriend we've been listening

659
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: to Nicole Cassinger, but also some other woman who played

660
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: these kinky sex games with killer dad Chris Watts.

661
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 8: There was a second mistress, a woman named Amanda, and

662
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 8: her name was secret. All during you know, his wife

663
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 8: took their children to both of their parents were in

664
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 8: North Carolina, so she went for six weeks in the.

665
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 5: Summer with her girls when they.

666
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 8: Were out of school, to stay with his parents and

667
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 8: her parents for a vacation. And that is when he

668
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 8: went wild. He was like a bachelor. Even his friends

669
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 8: had joked with him, and this was all the police report.

670
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 8: Police report that the county has released that the friends

671
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 8: sent him a text and said, how is your life

672
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 8: as a bachelor? And he lied to his friends.

673
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 5: He said, oh, you don't.

674
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 8: I'm just working out.

675
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything else.

676
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 8: He wasn't working out, working out there, working out.

677
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: I can make a lot of career jugs right now,

678
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: but I'm not jumping.

679
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: Into a new relationship is a little quick. It's like

680
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: I was in a relationship earlier this year, and I

681
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: think this is also a little quick, and I'm like,

682
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 3: so why don't we take our time? And I'm like,

683
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: if you guys end up doing a week on a

684
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: week off with your kids and like the week you

685
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: have your kids being with your children, and the week

686
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: that you don't, I'm like, I don't even want to

687
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: see you every day. I'm like, I think we should

688
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: spend like a few days of that together. I'm like,

689
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 3: because I like my space and I think you need

690
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 3: your space. I think you need your space to like

691
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 3: develop your identity again and like get it back because

692
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: I think he's just been like so wrapped up in

693
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: this whole thing that he's got in his own life

694
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 3: and his life that he I mean, he doesn't remember

695
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: probably what it's like to be single or have time

696
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: where it's like just him.

697
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that.

698
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful thing, and I really try to like

699
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: take it smart with all that. And it was the

700
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: same thing with his kids. It was just like you know,

701
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: like and I and we talk about things every once

702
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 3: in a while where you know, i'd be like, hey,

703
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: if I ever meet you know, because like I have

704
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: a lot of houseplants. It's a good example so I

705
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: have a lot of house plants, and I told I

706
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: told him, I was like, one day, if I ever

707
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 3: meet your kids, I was like, I'm going to show

708
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: these girls how to like paint, pottery and plants plants.

709
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: It was like, I think they would love to see

710
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: something grow that they build. I think it would be

711
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: really really cute and like little stuff like that. But

712
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: it wasn't very frequent. It wasn't hey we should get married,

713
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: and hey we should have babies, and hey I want

714
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: to live with but hey, me to meet your children now,

715
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 3: and let's cut the mom out.

716
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: It was never like that.

717
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 10: If there was never any conversation about, you know, we

718
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 10: can't do this with her around, you can't do this

719
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 10: with the kids around. He never said that.

720
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 7: You never said that.

721
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they didn't talk about the marriage and the

722
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: moving in because there was a problem his wife, Shananne,

723
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: the pregnant wife. You know, I'm listening to the girlfriend

724
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: Nicole Kessinger. Were these statements like sa to Rustchuk before

725
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: or after the bodies were found?

726
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: Before?

727
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so she didn't yet know that the wife and

728
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: the children were dead. Okay, that's a little bit that

729
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: alleviates some of this because I was wondering, how could

730
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: she talk about all that when the bodies had just

731
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: been recovered.

732
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: You know.

733
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: Another aspect to this is police were listening to her,

734
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: but they were probably also looking at her as a

735
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: potential person of interest, potential. She did not have anything

736
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: to do with these murders, let's just be clear about that.

737
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: So the wife and the children at this point are missing,

738
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: and she's just talking as fast as she can. She

739
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: conveniently left out the search for wedding dresses to people.

740
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 1: Quote hate Amber Fry, who was Scott Peterson's mistress when

741
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: Lacy's pregnant wife was murdered. How to prepare for anal sex. Oh,

742
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: let's see, there's just so many to choose from.

743
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 2: I don't really know what to pick first.

744
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: Alexis Terschuk. I doubt pretty seriously she knew his plan

745
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: to murder his wife and children, or that he had

746
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 1: another mistress.

747
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: Bring us up to date to Alexis to Restchuck.

748
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 8: So I don't think she did know that he had

749
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 8: another mistress. There was a woman named Amanda, and she

750
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 8: we secretly interviewed her before her name became public, and

751
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 8: she told us that she met Chris on a dating

752
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 8: app and they had a really dirty one night stand.

753
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 8: She said that he was into he wanted to do

754
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 8: a rape fantasy, that he choked her out while they

755
00:40:58,680 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 8: had sex, and she.

756
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: Oh, I in the right fantasy.

757
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: Was he the victim or was she the victim?

758
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 5: He was the victim, so he was.

759
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 8: He was the one that was raping her in their

760
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 8: sex fantasy.

761
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 5: That was consensual.

762
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: She said, all that rage, all that hate towards women,

763
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: I just okay.

764
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: Go ahead.

765
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 8: And she said that she really she had a really

766
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 8: good time with it. She thought he was really attractive

767
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 8: and it was a really sexy one night's dancer. Yeah.

768
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 8: So he started cheating on his wife, his pregnant wife,

769
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 8: basically the same minute she got pregnant, and then he

770
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 8: moved on to not just cheating her, but having a

771
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 8: full born relationship and a woman who thought they were

772
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 8: going to get married. This is somebody who he facetimed

773
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 8: with this mistress. He so he killed his wife and children.

774
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: Why are you acting so indignant that the mistress thought

775
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: they were going to get married. The mistress knew he

776
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: was already married, I guess, and she thought he was a.

777
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 8: Marry in type. But he would just bounce back from

778
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 8: one and marry her again. And so the night that

779
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 8: the women went missing. In the first night, I'm sorry

780
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 8: the daughters and his wife, he sat on his bed,

781
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 8: his unmade bed in his bedroom, on his phone, his iPhone,

782
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 8: and facetimed with her so she could see. He said

783
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 8: he was in bed where his wife had most likely died,

784
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 8: and that he.

785
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 5: Was just chatting with her.

786
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 8: She said he was staring at her very intently, and

787
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 8: he wasn't crying about his children missing or his wife missing.

788
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 8: He was just carrying on like a flirty conversation with her,

789
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 8: knowing that his wife was He had killed his wife

790
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 8: and his daughters in that very house within the last

791
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 8: twenty four hours.

792
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: Wow.

793
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that people worry about the you, Alexis,

794
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: let me be clear, worry about how the mistress was hurt.

795
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: You know, to hey with the mistress, she knew full

796
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: well he was married with children, although although I don't

797
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: think she knew the wife was pregnant. Vincent Hill, private investigator,

798
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: author of playbook to Murder. So often the defense will

799
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: be and I remember Mark Gerriges, who never agree with him,

800
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: but he is a good defense lawyer would always say,

801
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: an adulterer does not a murderer make, and that's true.

802
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: Just because you're having.

803
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: An affair, it does not mean you're going to commit murder.

804
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: But in domestic homicides, very often you will find when

805
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: the wife is murdered by the husband, there has been

806
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: an affair. So the converse to me is true. Very

807
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: often in domestic homicides, you will find the killer is

808
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: an adulterer. True adulterer doesn't mean a killer necessarily, but

809
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: the reverse may very well be true. Vincent, He'll they

810
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: had to know they were going to dig up at

811
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: least one mistress.

812
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 11: Vincent, what's really disturbing Nancy. I think with this other

813
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,280
Speaker 11: mistress that he met on Tender or whatever dating website,

814
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 11: it was the fact that he wanted to play out

815
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 11: this rape fantasy and strangle her. I think he was

816
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 11: kind of setting the tone of what he was going

817
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 11: to do with his wife. And I wouldn't be surprised

818
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 11: if more women came forward at a later time, whether

819
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 11: it's from ten years ago, and say, yeah, he liked

820
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 11: to choke or strangle or something like that. So I

821
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 11: think all the signs were there this whole time, and

822
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 11: luckily for this other mistress. I think she got out

823
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 11: kind of lucky. To be honest with you, well, you.

824
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 2: Know what, You're right, You're right.

825
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: And again, although we're giving her a hard time, she

826
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: is in no way implicated in his murderous plan. As

827
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, listen to girlfriend Nicole Kessinger.

828
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: You, no, it wasn't fair to his family for him

829
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 3: to have an affair.

830
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't fair.

831
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: To me to have him lie to me and make

832
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: me think that Ivan is the plan. And still to

833
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: this day, I don't even know what's lie and what's not.

834
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 3: I don't even know if they were like filing for divorce.

835
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if they were putting the house up.

836
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I don't even know anymore what

837
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: is real and what it's not.

838
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: But what I do know is it's just like, you know,

839
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: that wasn't.

840
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 3: Fair to me either, because if I hadn't know him,

841
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: not even all the truth, but like obviously some of it,

842
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have even engaged in any of this in

843
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 3: the first place. I mean, and that's the part for me,

844
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 3: just like on my personal level, outside of everything that

845
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: is happening, that is gonna affect me long term, It's like,

846
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna wake up every day and know

847
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 3: that like his mom and her unborn child and these

848
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: two little girls are not around anymore, and it breaks

849
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: my heart.

850
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: It is, oh my god, in any.

851
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: And then I have to think about like the consequences

852
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: of his actions and how they affect everybody else, like

853
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: all of these her famili's impacted. My name is about

854
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: to be like slandered for probably a while.

855
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: Elsewhere in these letters, Watts continues to repeat his quote

856
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: Jezebel mistress Nicole Kessinger is really responsible quote quote oh

857
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: why stars this idiot? Quote I have the appeals court

858
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: says this again, quote she was a harlot. Does somebody

859
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: actually still say harlot? I guess so she was a harlot,

860
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: a Jezebel who led me astray, who spoke sweet words

861
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: of destruction. But I will let God have his justice

862
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: with her. I was weak, and I let her cloud

863
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: my morals and my judgment. Oh kay, she was never

864
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: implicated in any of this. She had nothing to do

865
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: with the murders. As he is quote taking full responsibility.

866
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: He's blaming the woman he conned into an affair. One

867
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: of the many women he conned into an affair. Now

868
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: he's saying she's a Jezebel. Who is Jezebel? I think

869
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: he's talking about the biblical queen Jezebel, known for her

870
00:46:51,800 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: wicked and immoral and immoral actions. Oh this guy, Okay,

871
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: Nicole Passinger had nothing to do with these murders. He

872
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: did it all on his own. Chris Watts, you may

873
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: have gotten forgiveness by the Lord, but don't expect any

874
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: special treatment from Lady Justice. Goodbye, friends,