Speaker 1: All are nothing. Goals tend to be goals that require
Speaker 1: us to sacrifice everything else. Welcome to the one you
Speaker 1: feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of
Speaker 1: the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true. And yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf YEA, thanks for joining us. Our guest on
Speaker 1: this episode is Benjamin Shalva, who is back on the
Speaker 1: podcast for a second interview. Ben is the nationally renowned
Speaker 1: author of Ambition Addiction, How to Go Slow, Give Thanks,
Speaker 1: and Discover Joy Within. His previous book was Spiritual Cross Training,
Speaker 1: Searching Through Silence, Stretch and Song. Ben has been published
Speaker 1: in The Washington Post, Elephant Journal, and Spirituality and Health magazine.
Speaker 1: He's a rabbi, writer, meditation teacher, and yoga instructor. Shalva
Speaker 1: leads spiritual seminars and workshops throughout the world. And here's
Speaker 1: the interview with Benjamin Shalva. If you value the content
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Speaker 1: Hi Benjamin, Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks Eric, it's
Speaker 1: so great to be back. There's not very many guests
Speaker 1: who have made a second appearance, so you've joined some
Speaker 1: elite company at this point. Um, you've got another book
Speaker 1: out very quickly, which is why we're having you back,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to get into The book talks about
Speaker 1: ambition addiction, which is a question I asked myself often
Speaker 1: about whether I fall into that category. In your book
Speaker 1: helped me sort some things out. So we'll get to
Speaker 1: that here in a second. But let's start like we
Speaker 1: always do, with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking
Speaker 1: with his grandson and he says, in life, there are
Speaker 1: two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change it this week. I'm gonna do it
Speaker 1: with turkeys because it's Thanksgiving. Nice do it? Go with it? All? Right?
Speaker 1: There's h how does it? I can't remember. There's a
Speaker 1: grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life,
Speaker 1: there are two turkeys inside of us that are always
Speaker 1: at battle. One of them is a good turkey, which
Speaker 1: represents things like love and bravery and peace, and the
Speaker 1: other is a bad turkey, which represents things like greed
Speaker 1: and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he
Speaker 1: thinks about it for a second. He looks up at
Speaker 1: his grandfather and he says, well, which one wins? And
Speaker 1: the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like
Speaker 1: to start off by asking you what that silly parable
Speaker 1: means to you in your life and in your work.
Speaker 1: I like it with the turkeys. First of all, well,
Speaker 1: I'll probably gonna release this in like March. People are
Speaker 1: gonna be like, what right, right, right, We're over the
Speaker 1: turkeys now, right, But um, I feel like I've got
Speaker 1: turkey inside me, so it fits. But but let me
Speaker 1: say that I'm struggling every day. You know, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be a good person. I'm trying to be a
Speaker 1: good husband and father, and I'm trying to be an
Speaker 1: effective writer and teacher. But it's a struggle. And the
Speaker 1: struggle is somewhat having to do with just sort of
Speaker 1: being skilled in those different endeavors um and trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what to do in a given moment, you know,
Speaker 1: how to proceed. But actually the meat of the struggle
Speaker 1: is so much about um, my desire to be the
Speaker 1: best or the greatest, or the most powerful, or the sexiest,
Speaker 1: or the most adored or the most admired, and that
Speaker 1: ego drive for me. It's and every day, every ours,
Speaker 1: sometimes every minute practice of recognizing that ego and acknowledging
Speaker 1: it with a nod, but then stepping back and choosing
Speaker 1: a lighter path, a path of heart, a path of humility,
Speaker 1: and uh, going with the good turkey. Um, is that
Speaker 1: struggle every day? I agree with that for sure. The
Speaker 1: book is called Ambition Addiction, How to Go Slow, Give Thanks,
Speaker 1: and Discover joy within, and I resonated with a lot
Speaker 1: of it. And we'll get to that a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I was really interested in the topic because as
Speaker 1: a former addict of drugs and alcohol, I've certainly wondered
Speaker 1: at points if I haven't taken whether it's ambition or
Speaker 1: work or you know, what I do to be, is
Speaker 1: it just become another addiction for me? Um, And and
Speaker 1: your book helped me think through that, and so I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to talking about that. But let's let's start
Speaker 1: with what do you mean by ambition addiction? So, Um,
Speaker 1: I started figuring out this idea of ambition addiction because
Speaker 1: I noticed in my own life I was having these
Speaker 1: dreams of all encompassing glory, kind of all or nothing,
Speaker 1: fantasy of uh, you know, perfect future to come for me.
Speaker 1: It took the shape of, you know, I want to
Speaker 1: be a critically acclaimed, world renowned best selling writer, right,
Speaker 1: And so I had this dream in my head and
Speaker 1: I began to see that that a lot of times
Speaker 1: this dream was getting in the way of my physical health,
Speaker 1: my relationships, my spiritual well being. And I began to
Speaker 1: see that, you know, while ambition can be a really wonderful,
Speaker 1: essential part of being a healthy human being and doing
Speaker 1: good things in the world, that the ambition can sometimes
Speaker 1: cross over the line and become destructive. And that's what
Speaker 1: I caught talk about. When I say ambition addiction. It's
Speaker 1: that unrelenting drive to dominate, to win, two be the
Speaker 1: absolute best, no matter the cost. And it's when that
Speaker 1: drive also leaves a lot of casualties in its wake,
Speaker 1: in terms of personally and in terms of relationships, and
Speaker 1: in terms of spiritual life. One of the things you
Speaker 1: talk about in the book is this idea of we
Speaker 1: live in this fantasy of any day now. What is that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So any day now is the name that I've given
Speaker 1: to that dreams that that dream that we have in
Speaker 1: our heads of the perfect Hollywood ending. Now, your any
Speaker 1: day now is going to be different than my any
Speaker 1: day now, and it's going to be different than someone
Speaker 1: else's any day now. But what unites them all is
Speaker 1: the fact that when we haven't any day now, we
Speaker 1: have this dream of a perfect ending where there's a
Speaker 1: tableau you know, and everyone's just in their place, and
Speaker 1: we've won the final grand prize, you know, and we've dominated,
Speaker 1: and all the struggle has proven to lead us to
Speaker 1: this amazing end point. And the thing about in any
Speaker 1: day Now is that it's it's a mirage. So one
Speaker 1: of the difficult issues with ambition addiction is that a
Speaker 1: lot of us actually think that that mirage is real.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, we imagine that like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: if I actually do get that best selling book and
Speaker 1: that you know, pulleit serprise that I'll be happy, because
Speaker 1: that's the picture I have in my head. But in
Speaker 1: fact it's not real because people with best selling books
Speaker 1: and Pulitzer prizes are not necessarily any happier than you
Speaker 1: or me. And we know that, of course, because they
Speaker 1: share that fact with us and they say, I'm still me.
Speaker 1: I'm still a regular person struggling, but are any day now.
Speaker 1: It leads us to believe that we will reach an
Speaker 1: end of suffering if we only you know, uh, write
Speaker 1: that book or get that promotion, or get our kids
Speaker 1: to Harvard or whatever it is that we're dreaming of.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I also think though, that any
Speaker 1: day now is more pervasive than just an ambition issue.
Speaker 1: I think it. I think it crops up in a
Speaker 1: lot of the self improvement things that we try and do,
Speaker 1: even if it's not to be the best meditator in
Speaker 1: the world. But if I meditate, if I just get
Speaker 1: to the point where I meditate every single day and
Speaker 1: exercise every single day, um, and read enough books, my
Speaker 1: any day now will be a day where it's easy
Speaker 1: and life is easy and it's not a challenge anymore.
Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting as we talk about this
Speaker 1: because I see that also beyond just the type of
Speaker 1: ambition you're describing in the book. Oh yeah, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: I think that we as human beings, we do tend
Speaker 1: to fantasy. We do tend to imagine, uh you know,
Speaker 1: a future that is an improvement on the present. Sometimes
Speaker 1: that actually could be a healthy thing if it drives
Speaker 1: us two and motivates us to do good work in
Speaker 1: the world. I think that where I sort of specify
Speaker 1: ambition addiction is um if that any day now of ours,
Speaker 1: in whatever realm it is, if it starts to consume
Speaker 1: us so much that we we don't have any bandwidth
Speaker 1: for things like our physical health, for getting sleep, for
Speaker 1: eating well, for exercise, or if we're ignoring our kids
Speaker 1: or our spouse or friends. You know, that's when I think, uh,
Speaker 1: it becomes something that where we need to recognize that
Speaker 1: we are suffering from an actual addiction and take the
Speaker 1: steps we need to recover. Let's talk about what an
Speaker 1: ambition addiction is, because you say in the book, and
Speaker 1: I believe it to be true that some degree of
Speaker 1: ambition is a good thing. I mean, I look at
Speaker 1: I feel like built into the very fabric of existence
Speaker 1: is the desire for growth and creation and and stretching.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's just you know, to me, there's
Speaker 1: a lot that's it's a very spiritual thing. So there,
Speaker 1: you know, we're recognizing, Hey, there's some degree of that
Speaker 1: that's good. How do you start to diagnose has this
Speaker 1: gone too far? With me? Am? I am I an addict?
Speaker 1: I mean, because it seems like, you know, addiction is
Speaker 1: just you know, a good thing that is usually just
Speaker 1: taken way too far right right, and and it can
Speaker 1: be hard to differentiate. It's I mean, I think when
Speaker 1: when one starts to ask themselves, you know, is my
Speaker 1: ambition going too far? It's it's it can be kind
Speaker 1: of nebulous figuring that out. So I've identified a number
Speaker 1: of signs and symptoms that I've seen in my own life,
Speaker 1: I've seen in other ambition addicts, and I think these
Speaker 1: are things to look out for. And to name a
Speaker 1: couple that I think are very prevalent. One is a
Speaker 1: real contempt for the present and a reverence for the future.
Speaker 1: That's a big one. When you find yourself walking around
Speaker 1: seeing the present moment as just kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: a d m V waiting room to get through so
Speaker 1: that you can get to get back on the highway,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're kind of ignoring all the gifts
Speaker 1: and in this present moment. That's a that's a key sign.
Speaker 1: And along with that, another really important um sign to
Speaker 1: look for is manic pace. You know, when ambition is
Speaker 1: driving us to always be fast and furious, always in
Speaker 1: a rush, impatient with other people, very very busy all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, running into people in the grocery
Speaker 1: store and just being like, oh sorry, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: I can't talk right now. I'm just in a rush,
Speaker 1: you know, and all and finding ourselves doing that over
Speaker 1: and over again. That's another real sign. And just to
Speaker 1: talk about one more that I think is very important.
Speaker 1: A lot of ambition atticts suffer from a severity and depression.
Speaker 1: So a lot of us are on this essentially this
Speaker 1: dopamine roller coaster. You know, Um, every time we picture
Speaker 1: are any day now, neurons in our brain are transmitting
Speaker 1: a neurotransmitter called dopamine, and that gives us a real buzz,
Speaker 1: It gives us a high. But dopamine is connected with
Speaker 1: often with with hope for the future. So every time
Speaker 1: that we don't get that any day now, that dopamine
Speaker 1: level then declines and we end up going into actual
Speaker 1: physical withdrawal. And so a lot of times ambition addicts
Speaker 1: are going to be very uh forlorn, depressed, you know, cranky, moody,
Speaker 1: and have a hard time enjoying and appreciating even very
Speaker 1: simple pleasures because you know, they're always gritting their teeth, there,
Speaker 1: always have a furrowed brow, and they're never really able
Speaker 1: to lighten up. I identify with some of those things.
Speaker 1: Is a lot of those things you just said describe Chris,
Speaker 1: and I can assure you he does not have an
Speaker 1: ambition addiction. No, that, no one, no, this episode does
Speaker 1: not apply to him. We can feel, we can we
Speaker 1: could feel pretty, we could feel pretty confident in this
Speaker 1: one but one last thing to worry about. But for me,
Speaker 1: I recognize some of those things. What I thought was
Speaker 1: interesting is you listed out some of those symptoms and
Speaker 1: and I have some degree of those at different points.
Speaker 1: What I thought you said, and I really like this.
Speaker 1: You said, all addictive behaviors, from alcoholism to work, all
Speaker 1: is um too, ambition, addiction have too common traits. Addictive
Speaker 1: behaviors are persistent and counterproductive. And and that was a
Speaker 1: different frame that I started. You know, when I started
Speaker 1: to look at it through that frame, I started to
Speaker 1: feel like maybe I was Okay, yeah, well that's exactly
Speaker 1: what I start the book with is actually a diagnostic
Speaker 1: process based on that idea that that addictive behavior is
Speaker 1: something we do often and it's counterproductive. And what I
Speaker 1: do is I have the readers go through a diagnostic process,
Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of filling in worksheets if you will,
Speaker 1: to really see when I work, when I work out,
Speaker 1: when I parent, or you know, whatever it is that
Speaker 1: I'm ambitious about, are my actions both persistent and counterproductive?
Speaker 1: And a lot of times, what we're going to find
Speaker 1: is that sure, my actions are persistent, but they're not
Speaker 1: necessarily counterproductive, They're not necessarily uh destructive or hurting other people,
Speaker 1: are hurting, hurting myself. Um, and in that case, you know,
Speaker 1: that's terrific. That that means that we're ambitious individuals with
Speaker 1: a healthy ambition within healthy boundaries. And that's something to celebrate.
Speaker 1: But then again, what I hope the book can help
Speaker 1: clarify for folks as well. There are times, however, when
Speaker 1: my behaviors do become both persistent and counterproductive. And now
Speaker 1: and those and on those occasions, that's where I really
Speaker 1: need to be careful. And one of the ways that
Speaker 1: I help readers think about this too is when you're
Speaker 1: thinking about your goals, one way to sort of get
Speaker 1: a sense of would my goal here be counterproductive or
Speaker 1: not is to think of it. Think of it this way,
Speaker 1: is my goal and all or nothing goal? If, for instance,
Speaker 1: my goal is to become president of the United States,
Speaker 1: Let's just say, would I be satisfied if I also
Speaker 1: became a senator or a congressman, or a you know, uh,
Speaker 1: someone involved in civic affairs in a meaningful way. And
Speaker 1: if I, in my heart say no, I have to
Speaker 1: be number one or nothing at all. That's a real
Speaker 1: clear sign that that goal in that arena in my
Speaker 1: life is going to be counterproductive because all are nothing.
Speaker 1: Goals tend to be goals that require us to sacrifice
Speaker 1: everything else. We're not feeling too inspired for a clever
Speaker 1: bit right now about the donation campaign. After we just
Speaker 1: finished off a large pizza, So I'll killing super fired,
Speaker 1: super fired up. Yeah, I'm I'm not really willing to
Speaker 1: ask for money right now, but I'm certainly willing to
Speaker 1: take a long map. That's right. My job is to
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Speaker 1: And here's the rest of the interview with Benjamin Shalva.
Speaker 1: You have a line that I like where you say
Speaker 1: the road to hell is not paved with good intentions,
Speaker 1: the road to hell is paved with unexamined intentions. And
Speaker 1: I just thought that's sort of summarizes a lot of
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here very well. In you know,
Speaker 1: am I looking at what is? You know, what's behind
Speaker 1: what I'm doing? And and I always believe for myself
Speaker 1: that most things that I do in life, it's difficult
Speaker 1: for me to have an entirely pure motive. I would
Speaker 1: be lying if I said that I did the show
Speaker 1: only to you know, put messages of hope into the world,
Speaker 1: right of course, and to help other people. That's a
Speaker 1: big part of it. But there are also other parts
Speaker 1: of you know, ego works its way in or wanting
Speaker 1: to be successful or or all that stuff. And so
Speaker 1: I've gotten o ka as as I've grown into saying,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not going to probably you know,
Speaker 1: be pure as the driven snow on some of these things.
Speaker 1: But what I find to be really useful is to
Speaker 1: is to be able, like you say, to exam am
Speaker 1: in my intentions and look at which ones are driving
Speaker 1: and which ones are dominant. Exactly. It's not about uh
Speaker 1: purging ourselves of ego, um, which would be impossible. It's
Speaker 1: it's not about uh having pure motives as you said,
Speaker 1: you know, um, looking honestly at our lives is looking
Speaker 1: at ourselves warts and all, but then being able to
Speaker 1: make good choices with that knowledge. So, you know, example
Speaker 1: of that would be that, you know, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of ambition as a writer and teacher, and uh
Speaker 1: when I write and teach during the day, you know,
Speaker 1: when my kids are at school. But the other day
Speaker 1: I got an invitation from my son's teacher to join
Speaker 1: them on a field trip to Mount Vernon because we
Speaker 1: live here in the d C area, And so my
Speaker 1: first initial thought was I can't do it. I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I've got to work. I've got important writing I've got
Speaker 1: important teaching. I've got preparations and things to do. So um,
Speaker 1: what I did then at that moment was I really
Speaker 1: step back and you know, and this is the idea
Speaker 1: of examining my intention. And I asked myself, Uh, am
Speaker 1: I going to say no to chaperoning my son's field
Speaker 1: trip because there's essential work that needs to happen and
Speaker 1: even though that work is connected with ego, that might
Speaker 1: be okay, or am I doing it because I'm afraid.
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that if I do something like, you know,
Speaker 1: be the dad on the field trip, that I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lose my edge, lose the ground I've gained as a professional,
Speaker 1: and you know, be you know, end up you know, uh,
Speaker 1: suffering in obscurity. And so you know, at that point,
Speaker 1: I decided, Look, I'm going to go on the field
Speaker 1: trip and you're going to check your phone the entire
Speaker 1: time and not pay any teaching, right right? You know.
Speaker 1: I actually I actually had to work on it as
Speaker 1: I was on the field. You know, put the phone away,
Speaker 1: be present. But that's the work we have to do.
Speaker 1: And again, it's not about having pure motives. It's about
Speaker 1: examining our motives and being really real with ourselves and saying,
Speaker 1: if this is just about ego, if this is just
Speaker 1: about um, you know, my fears and insecurities, is that
Speaker 1: really the person I want to be? Is that what
Speaker 1: where I want to act from my whole life? Or
Speaker 1: or can I bring in some I guess I would
Speaker 1: say more compassionate, hopeful motives. Also, yeah, I think noticing
Speaker 1: the fear is that's a really good one because I'll
Speaker 1: notice that in regards to the show, I'll see lots
Speaker 1: of other podcasts coming out or um, you know, the
Speaker 1: numbers will stay kind of just you know, we're not
Speaker 1: really growing, and I'll start to get this little bit
Speaker 1: of fear, and that's the time for me that it's
Speaker 1: important to go back to what is the real intention
Speaker 1: for why I'm doing this? And it works so well
Speaker 1: for me to to stop and go, oh, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: that's not what this is about. You know, I'm doing
Speaker 1: this for X, Y, and Z reasons, which you know,
Speaker 1: I'm reaping the benefits of and I've achieved and and
Speaker 1: all that, and that helps me step out of the fear.
Speaker 1: So the fear for me is an indicator that I'm
Speaker 1: letting some of the bad turkey slide in and and
Speaker 1: take over more of my motivation. And what's so nice
Speaker 1: about that is what you just describe was that you
Speaker 1: use that as an opportunity to refocus and recommit to
Speaker 1: those essential goals that that led you to create the
Speaker 1: show in the first place. And so one of the
Speaker 1: things that um, I encourage ambition atics to do is
Speaker 1: not to quit their ambitious and endeavors, or to to
Speaker 1: not have goals or dreams, but in fact to use
Speaker 1: this addiction as a motivator to actually become more committed
Speaker 1: to their goals and objectives, but in a healthier way,
Speaker 1: you know, because I do think that um, when that
Speaker 1: fear creeps in, it can actually definitely, you know, be
Speaker 1: an oppertut tunity for us to commit to what's meaningful.
Speaker 1: I agree. So let's talk about the other side of it,
Speaker 1: which is getting better or recovering from ambition addiction or um,
Speaker 1: you know, treating it. What are some of the things
Speaker 1: that you recommend, which, by the way, the things that
Speaker 1: you're gonna talk about I think are useful. Even if
Speaker 1: you say, well, I'm maybe I'm not an addict, they
Speaker 1: still are pretty useful in the context of all of
Speaker 1: us in the modern human age where everybody sort of
Speaker 1: looks like one sometimes, right, and certainly our culture is
Speaker 1: encouraging right this, you know, this unfettered ambition. Uh, in
Speaker 1: the midst of that. The road to recovery that I've
Speaker 1: laid out consists of five steps that have worked for
Speaker 1: me and that I've seen work for others who have met,
Speaker 1: you know, along different spiritual paths and in different communities
Speaker 1: and people I've worked with as a writer and teacher.
Speaker 1: And the first step, which is the hardest and the
Speaker 1: most essential, is slowing down. So again, we ambition addicts
Speaker 1: see the present moment as prelude and the future as salvation.
Speaker 1: So naturally we are going to rush because the faster
Speaker 1: we get to that future, the better, because that Hollywood
Speaker 1: endings waiting for us. Slowing down then is a huge
Speaker 1: change for us, and it involves what I recommend in
Speaker 1: the book is actually a mindfulness practice that involves uniting
Speaker 1: our breath with our actions and actually with a mantra
Speaker 1: that we can maintain um mentally as well, and to
Speaker 1: that allows us to actually down shift and rediscover the
Speaker 1: present moment. Because I think what's happening to a lot
Speaker 1: of us is that we've actually lost touch with the
Speaker 1: very ground beneath our feet, with the very moment that
Speaker 1: we find ourselves in. And it actually is amazing. A
Speaker 1: few deep, mindful breaths, you know, a little bit of
Speaker 1: the slowing down work that I recommend, and the mind
Speaker 1: and body and even the soul really shift and and
Speaker 1: there's a there's a huge change, and that can pave
Speaker 1: the way to the other steps that come after it.
Speaker 1: The start is definitely going slow and the slow down
Speaker 1: you use three words breath word indeed. Can you walk
Speaker 1: just real quickly through how to apply those absolutely and
Speaker 1: breath word indeed is a technique that can be practiced anywhere,
Speaker 1: any time. So any time you find yourself going fast
Speaker 1: and losing your breath and not having any time, this
Speaker 1: is a great practice. Here's what you do. Essentially, the
Speaker 1: first thing you do is to just notice your breath,
Speaker 1: breathing in and out. The next thing you do is
Speaker 1: you start to connect your breathing with your action and
Speaker 1: with a narration in your head. So let's say that
Speaker 1: you're driving your car, so as you inhale, you would
Speaker 1: say to yourself, I am making a right turn. As
Speaker 1: you exhale, you'd say to yourself, this is all just
Speaker 1: thinking in your head. I am making a right turn.
Speaker 1: On your next inhale, you'd say I'm straight not straightening
Speaker 1: straightening out the car. On your excel, you'd say, I'm
Speaker 1: stopping at a stop sign, and on and on. So
Speaker 1: you can do this with any activity, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're you can do this while you're lifting weights, or
Speaker 1: you can do this, you know, while having coffee with
Speaker 1: a friend, whatever it is, um. And what this does
Speaker 1: is because you're narrating what you're doing in your head.
Speaker 1: You've got this like kind of golf style announcer saying,
Speaker 1: you know, and now he's making a right turn, and
Speaker 1: now he's you know. And as that as that narrator
Speaker 1: is narrating what's happening in your head, and as you're
Speaker 1: connecting it with your breath, and each time you breathe,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're reciting what you're doing. What ends up
Speaker 1: happening is you can't help but slow down because you're
Speaker 1: not giving your brain room to be able to think, Uh,
Speaker 1: gotta get home so I can so I can write
Speaker 1: that next thing, so I can win that award, so
Speaker 1: that I can get that promotion, so that you know,
Speaker 1: the brain has already been narrating other things and they
Speaker 1: all have to do with ambition. And once we do
Speaker 1: this breath word, indeed, the brain suddenly gets consumed with
Speaker 1: I am making a right turn, I am tying my
Speaker 1: shoes or whatever it is, and it slows us down.
Speaker 1: And what's so key about that too, is that once
Speaker 1: you've practiced breath word indeed and you start slowing yourself down,
Speaker 1: it actually gives your body time to absorb a lot
Speaker 1: of the adrenaline and cortisol and other stress hormones that
Speaker 1: have probably been flowing through your body up until this point.
Speaker 1: Because a lot of us, when we're moving this fast,
Speaker 1: we're in constant didn't fight or flight constantly, you know,
Speaker 1: essentially in a high stress situation physically. And when we
Speaker 1: slow down, our nervous system gets the Q and says, okay, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, endocrine system time to reabsorb these stress hormones
Speaker 1: and we can we can, we can down shift from
Speaker 1: Defcon five here, you know, we're okay. And what's amazing
Speaker 1: about that then is that, uh, once our body starts
Speaker 1: to downshift, it gives us a lot of space to relax,
Speaker 1: to appreciate, to notice details that we'd otherwise miss, and
Speaker 1: to not feel so frantic and panicked, which is going
Speaker 1: to give us allow us to then keep moving forward
Speaker 1: in a healthier pace. I agree with the breath word
Speaker 1: indeed is a great method and just anything that we
Speaker 1: can find that for me that when I come back
Speaker 1: to truly to the present moment, which is just noticing
Speaker 1: it's happening around me in as great a detail as
Speaker 1: I can it, that is the best way I found
Speaker 1: to kind of come out of a very anxious or
Speaker 1: um driven state is to just kind of become present
Speaker 1: for a little bit of time. There there seems to
Speaker 1: be some peace there. It's challenging to stay there, but
Speaker 1: there's certainly some peace there. Yeah, And I recommend to
Speaker 1: readers that when they're practicing this, it's going to be challenging,
Speaker 1: and that they don't need to do it, you know,
Speaker 1: all day, every day, and if they want to start
Speaker 1: with maybe doing you know, five minutes of breath word
Speaker 1: indeed practice when they notice themselves rushing, and then they
Speaker 1: can kind of let it go for a while and
Speaker 1: come back to it. And it's like anything else, that's
Speaker 1: something that we're that that that should become ideally a
Speaker 1: daily practice, but but something that doesn't drive us nuts,
Speaker 1: you know, um. And it's something that ultimately will become
Speaker 1: a tool that we can turn to when we feel
Speaker 1: that heightened state of anxiety. You've got several other approaches.
Speaker 1: Let's maybe hit one or two of them before we
Speaker 1: wrap up, right, So slowing down as a key step.
Speaker 1: Another key step is giving thanks, which, hey, if we're
Speaker 1: coming on to Turkey day, how to mention that one?
Speaker 1: So giving thanks is essential because one of the things
Speaker 1: that happens to us ambition attics is that we are
Speaker 1: constantly feeling disappointed because again, you know, our any day
Speaker 1: now is so grandiose, so we're never going to get there,
Speaker 1: or even if we get there, we realize that it's
Speaker 1: not even the endpoint we want. Even more so because
Speaker 1: of that, we're so disappointed. The practice of giving thanks
Speaker 1: of creating a gratitude practice, and I walk through in
Speaker 1: the book how readers can actually create their own gratitude
Speaker 1: practice that respects their own background in terms of religion, spirituality, secularity,
Speaker 1: um style. You know, help folks put it together authentically
Speaker 1: for themselves. But what this does when we give thanks.
Speaker 1: We again are appreciating the present moment, and we're also
Speaker 1: declaring that this day now, not any day now, but
Speaker 1: this day now has a lot of blessing and a
Speaker 1: lot of enjoyment and is a wonderful place to be.
Speaker 1: And that's something that, uh, when ambition is really going crazy,
Speaker 1: we convince ourselves otherwise, but in fact, when we slow
Speaker 1: down and take a look around, we have lots to
Speaker 1: be thankful for. Indeed we do. Let me ask you
Speaker 1: a question about gratitude because one of the things that
Speaker 1: I have experienced is there are times that the gratitude
Speaker 1: feels like going through the motions. Um, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: doing it every day and I list out things that
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for, and sometimes I really feel that. In
Speaker 1: other times I feel like I'm making a list or
Speaker 1: how do you work to keep that fresh for yourself? Well,
Speaker 1: the first thing I think is that there is going
Speaker 1: to be at the beginning of feeling of going through
Speaker 1: the motions, and I don't think that should deter us
Speaker 1: so much. Part of this practice is starting to rewire
Speaker 1: our brains, you know, and and and so there is
Speaker 1: going to be some time as we're transitioning out of
Speaker 1: this any day now mindset to this day now appreciation.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be times when we're like, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm thankful for my family, for my friends,
Speaker 1: for the roof over my head, you know, but by God,
Speaker 1: I just really wish I could I could have a
Speaker 1: million dollars to you know, and um, and that's you know,
Speaker 1: going to happen. And I actually think going through the
Speaker 1: motions is not the worst thing at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: again we're we're you know, we're trying to reverse this
Speaker 1: momentum here. Eventually, though, what I really encourage and I
Speaker 1: talked through how to do this in the book, is
Speaker 1: is to create a gratitude practice that's very flexible, so
Speaker 1: that we have a certain way that we begin. Maybe
Speaker 1: we say, you know, thank you God for my life,
Speaker 1: or thank you Universe for being able to wake up
Speaker 1: this morning, and maybe we start the same way every day.
Speaker 1: But then we let it meander and we can actually
Speaker 1: start to notice things in the midst of our gratitude practice.
Speaker 1: Maybe we just look around and say thank you for
Speaker 1: that beautiful painting on the wall, or thank you for
Speaker 1: this sunrise, or it starts to become a little more dynamic, organic,
Speaker 1: um and flexible as opposed to just a fixed liturgy
Speaker 1: that we're doing every single day. I think that can
Speaker 1: really help, and I and I do teach folks how
Speaker 1: to start to make that happen for themselves. The other
Speaker 1: word that I like for a gratitude practice, and you
Speaker 1: just used it in one of the sentences there is
Speaker 1: appreciation is to not only think of like the things
Speaker 1: you traditionally think you're grateful for, like that I have
Speaker 1: a home, and I have a job, and you know,
Speaker 1: I have friends, and but what can I appreciate that's
Speaker 1: happening in the moment or happened in the moment, whether
Speaker 1: it be a delicious cup of coffee or a sunrise
Speaker 1: or you know, it's And to me, appreciation seems like
Speaker 1: a another way to frame it in my mind that
Speaker 1: helps me to to look at it a little bit
Speaker 1: with a wider lens. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's okay for
Speaker 1: us to give thanks for very mundane things, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I found myself one time giving thanks
Speaker 1: for Judd Apatow movies, you know, because I was just like, God,
Speaker 1: that guy is good. And every time I see one
Speaker 1: of his films, I just like feel better. So I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I got this gratitude practice.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give thanks for Judd Apataw. So there we go,
Speaker 1: and you know, and the thing is like that's totally
Speaker 1: authentic and appropriate and it actually helps in terms of
Speaker 1: my feeling in my life what to be grateful for.
Speaker 1: And again it totally counteracts this idea that any day
Speaker 1: now is all is all there is, because you know,
Speaker 1: Judd Apataws, this is forty is right here right now.
Speaker 1: So you know, there you go, Jed shout out for you.
Speaker 1: But like I really, I really think give thanks for whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, give thanks for for your favorite hockey team.
Speaker 1: If if that's something that you're thankful for, let it
Speaker 1: be a part of this practice. Yeah, various musicians make
Speaker 1: my list all the time. Calvin Hobbs has made many
Speaker 1: many appearances. Uh, you know Leonard Cohen who's recently passed.
Speaker 1: Is a is a common feature. Absolutely, So let's hit
Speaker 1: one more of the five steps that you think are yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the other one pick yeah, thank you. I
Speaker 1: think I'd love to mention the step of donate time.
Speaker 1: So we've slowed down, we're giving thanks and uh we
Speaker 1: still have ambition, though we still have this drive, we
Speaker 1: still have these goals. And again that's not that they're there.
Speaker 1: It's wrong to have goals or ambition. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that happens with ambition addiction is that we
Speaker 1: tend to really sequester our time to focus it only
Speaker 1: or primarily on individuals that can get us ahead. Um
Speaker 1: and I've certainly seen that in my own life. You know,
Speaker 1: when I'm in a writing project, I do not want
Speaker 1: my kids bothering me. I don't you know, even want
Speaker 1: to hear about my wife and her crazy stories from
Speaker 1: work or whatever it is. You know, I'm focused on
Speaker 1: my dreams. So one of the things that I recommend
Speaker 1: we have a practice of and and actually of charting
Speaker 1: down in a given day, who do we normally interact with?
Speaker 1: And are there people that we normally interact with from
Speaker 1: whom we're withholding our time? So and that could even
Speaker 1: be a pet you know, I've got to I've got
Speaker 1: a puppy that's always wanting me to take her for
Speaker 1: a walk, and you know, when I'm in a big project,
Speaker 1: you know, try to try to just just have her
Speaker 1: get as far from me as as as as she can,
Speaker 1: and so whatever it is. When we practice donating time,
Speaker 1: we we chart where we're spending our time. Are there
Speaker 1: individuals who were ignoring or or not giving much time
Speaker 1: at all too? And then we make a practice of
Speaker 1: step by step, maybe even if it's an extra five
Speaker 1: minutes the next day, donating our time to those individuals,
Speaker 1: maybe one or two of them, who can't get us
Speaker 1: ahead towards her any day now, but for whom we
Speaker 1: but but for who we we care about or we respect,
Speaker 1: or at least we feel deserves a little time and attention.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful sentence to wrap up, and I think
Speaker 1: I don't think I could say it much better. Although
Speaker 1: this whole conversation has been making me think of a
Speaker 1: Bertrand Russell quote because you talk about how serious and
Speaker 1: and focus the ambition at it can be. And it's
Speaker 1: a quote I love. Which is one of the symptoms
Speaker 1: of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's
Speaker 1: work is terribly important. That's so good, that's uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard that. Yeah yeah, well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to come on again. Thanks,
Speaker 1: you know, congratulations on another book in a you know,
Speaker 1: pretty quick turnaround. So, um, I'm an ambitious guy. We've
Speaker 1: we figured that out. Yeah, thanks, yeah, but thanks so
Speaker 1: much for having me too. It's been really, really lovely.
Speaker 1: We'll have links to the to the books and all
Speaker 1: that stuff in the show notes into your website. And yep,
Speaker 1: thanks again for coming on. I loved our first conversation.
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed this one also, And um, could you
Speaker 1: make a turkey sound for us on the way out.
Speaker 1: I've never asked a guest to do that before. Skip it. No,
Speaker 1: that's that's inappropriate. Yeah, how is that perfect? All right?
Speaker 1: That's being a good sport, all right, and thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Take care. You can learn more about Benjamin Shalva and
Speaker 1: this podcast at one you Feed dot Net slash Benjamin too.
Speaker 1: If what you just heard was helpful to you, please
Speaker 1: consider making a donation to the one you Feed podcast.
Speaker 1: Head over to one you Feed dot Net Slash Support