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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited about today because we're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking about a book that was written between Cornell

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Speaker 2: West and Robert P.

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Speaker 1: George. This is right now.

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Speaker 2: This is at a time when sixty five percent of

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Speaker 2: Americans say political divisions pose a major threat to democracy.

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Speaker 2: And I think that they think because of that, we

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Speaker 2: really can't have conversations. But here you have two of

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Speaker 2: America's most influential thought leaders who one is a progressive champion,

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Speaker 2: Cornell West. The other is a prominent conservative, and that's

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Speaker 2: Robert P. George. And they write this book together called

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Speaker 2: Truth Matters, A Dialogue on Fruitful Disagreement in the aid

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Speaker 2: in an Age of Division. And I'm reading through this

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Speaker 2: at the beginning and I'm thinking, man, they're talking about

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Speaker 2: how they met and how they decided to do a

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Speaker 2: class together and how this friendship kind of bloomed, and

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Speaker 2: I thought I'd love to have been in that first conversation.

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Speaker 2: And then I realized that this book is actually their conversation.

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Speaker 2: And I'm so pleased today we have Cornell West and

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Speaker 2: Robert P. George with us. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining me on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you, tutor. It's such pleasure to be back

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Speaker 3: with you, and always such a joy to be with

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Speaker 3: my dear brother Cornell.

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Speaker 4: No, indeed, indeed, indeed thank you for having us.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So I was reading through and I see that this

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Speaker 2: all started with the university really saying, hey, we want it. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I think it was students who were doing a new

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Speaker 2: student magazine to say we want one professor to interview another,

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Speaker 2: and that was how this friendship blossomed.

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Speaker 3: Is that right, that's correct. We knew each other and

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Speaker 3: we've been in some faculty seminars for about a decade

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Speaker 3: really before a student showed up at my door one

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Speaker 3: day saying that he and his friends were starting a

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Speaker 3: new magazine and they wanted to have a feature of

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Speaker 3: the magazine beginning with the inaugural issue, an interview with

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Speaker 3: one faculty member by another. And they reported to me,

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Speaker 3: I was very flattered by this, that they'd asked Cornell

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Speaker 3: West to be the interviewer, and he had asked to

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Speaker 3: have me as his interview subject. So we went from

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Speaker 3: a friendly acquaintance relationship to a genuine friendship, beginning really

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Speaker 3: with that interview and then going on to teach classes together.

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Speaker 3: Several years before Cornell abandoned me and went to Harvard.

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Speaker 3: I still can't figure out why he did that. That

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Speaker 3: off he went to Harvard. He came back one time

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Speaker 3: when he had a sabbatical leave, and we taught our

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Speaker 3: course again. But then since we weren't teaching regularly together,

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Speaker 3: we started taking our show on the road and having

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Speaker 3: public discussions at universities and at other institutions all over

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Speaker 3: the country and indeed the world. We've been in Rome

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Speaker 3: together and in other places, and it's just been such

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Speaker 3: a blessing.

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Speaker 2: Well, but the friendship has definitely stayed intact, and more

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Speaker 2: than intact, I would say as I read through this book,

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Speaker 2: and here I'm reading through your conversation, because for people

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Speaker 2: who are interested in the book, it really is a

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Speaker 2: dialogue between the two of you, and I think for

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Speaker 2: those of us who are looking in on a university

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Speaker 2: like yours. And I'm listening why I'm reading, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm listening because I'm reading through the book

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Speaker 2: and I'm hearing you talk about these great philosophers, and

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking this is way above my head. But I'm

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Speaker 2: just so pleased to be able to be able to

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Speaker 2: join this even if I'm just reading it, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's the beauty of this book. But we think

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Speaker 2: of you as major opposites. However, when I read this book,

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Speaker 2: I don't see you as opposites. And maybe, Robert, we

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Speaker 2: talked about the fact that you have a foundation in

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Speaker 2: faith and that is probably the foundation of how you

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Speaker 2: see the world. So potentially your ideas bloom from that.

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Speaker 2: But you do have very different views on the world.

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Speaker 2: So how does this keep continuing to work?

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Speaker 5: But one is that we're able to revel on each

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Speaker 5: other's humanity because we take time and get a sense

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Speaker 5: of who we are, so that we spent this time

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Speaker 5: out twenty years so deeper in front. Really, brothers are

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Speaker 5: families are so intertwine robbing.

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Speaker 4: Somebody says what he means, it means what he says.

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Speaker 5: And therefore, when we get the political and di alloted

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Speaker 5: for disagreements, we've already grounded our connection human to human,

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Speaker 5: I to thou, and of course, as Christians, it does

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Speaker 5: make a difference each of us made in the image

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Speaker 5: of a loving and an almighty God, and therefore open

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Speaker 5: to whatever kinds of disagreements we have, we wrestle with

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Speaker 5: each other. We engage each other, but in the end

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Speaker 5: we recognize that we're human beings and.

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Speaker 1: You've learned from each other.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's something that that was the biggest

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Speaker 2: thing I took away from this book. I mean, at

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Speaker 2: one point you talk about you have a whole chapter

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Speaker 2: dedicated to truth seekers, and really it's about truth in general,

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Speaker 2: and you talk about how one another are truth seekers,

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Speaker 2: which I find very fascinating because I think we've become

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Speaker 2: a society that wants to block well, yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: you even talk about this being the age of feeling,

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Speaker 2: and feeling is different than seeking truth because oftentimes our

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Speaker 2: feelings make us.

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Speaker 1: Not want to seek any further.

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Speaker 2: We don't have the courage to go find truth because

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Speaker 2: our feelings.

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Speaker 1: We hide behind our feelings. So how do you go into.

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Speaker 2: Universities today and teach this next generation to not hide

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Speaker 2: behind your feelings but to genuinely seek truth.

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Speaker 3: Well. The best way to teach young people, and every

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Speaker 3: parent knows this, of course, certainly every teacher knows it

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Speaker 3: is by example. You model the behavior that you would

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Speaker 3: like to see your students or your children emulate. And

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Speaker 3: what Cornella and I try to model is respectful truth

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Speaker 3: seeking dialogue. Now, there are some conditions for that happening.

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Speaker 3: First of all, the interlocutors, the partners who are in

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Speaker 3: the discussion, have to be willing to trust each other.

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Speaker 3: They have to be willing to trust each other to

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Speaker 3: be genuine truth sye. So that my goal is not

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Speaker 3: to defeat or humiliate Cornell. I know that his goal

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Speaker 3: is not to defeat or humiliate me. We have differences

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Speaker 3: about political things, but we're on the same wavelength when

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Speaker 3: it comes to the goal of the conversation. What is

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Speaker 3: that truth? To get at the truth of things? Now,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you something about these two guys. Cornell and

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Speaker 3: I are getting up there in years. You're still a

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Speaker 3: young tutor, but at a certain point you become very

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Speaker 3: highly cognizant of the fact that we frail, fall infallible

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Speaker 3: human break beings can be wrong about stuff, and all

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Speaker 3: of us are wrong about some things. Every single human

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Speaker 3: being on the face of the earth right now has

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Speaker 3: some false beliefs in his or her head. Now, the

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Speaker 3: only way we're going to move from some of those

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Speaker 3: false beliefs out and replace them with true beliefs. We're

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Speaker 3: never going to get it perfectly, but the only way

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Speaker 3: we're going to make any progress is to allow ourselves

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Speaker 3: to be challenged, allow our views to be criticized, and

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Speaker 3: not take it as a personal assault or a personal

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Speaker 3: attack or an attack on my feelings if somebody disagrees

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Speaker 3: with me, Rather listen and a truth a truth seeking spirit,

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Speaker 3: and try to learn. Yes, respond, defend your views, see

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Speaker 3: how well they can hold up under rigorous intellectual scrutiny.

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Speaker 3: But don't try to shut the other guy down. Have

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Speaker 3: the basic intellectual humility to recognize that you really are fallible,

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Speaker 3: and you can be wrong about them some things. And

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Speaker 3: we also have to be aware that we can be wrong,

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Speaker 3: not simply about the minors, trivial, superficial things and life.

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Speaker 3: We can be wrong about big, important things. If we

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Speaker 3: look at human history, some of the greatest figures in

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Speaker 3: all of history, that people we greatly admire, have nevertheless

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Speaker 3: been wrong and wrong on some very important things. Now,

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Speaker 3: do we think we're better than them? Do we think

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Speaker 3: we're made out of something other than the same flesh

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Speaker 3: and blood that they're made out of. Do we think

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Speaker 3: we're immune from mistakes? Come on, we're not. And once

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Speaker 3: you take that on board, Tutor, as Cornell and I do.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be open to criticism and challenge, and

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Speaker 3: you're not going to treat that as a personal assault.

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Speaker 3: When Cornell criticizes my views, that's not an attack on me.

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Speaker 3: He's trying to get at the truth of things. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to get through things if I criticize something he believes,

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Speaker 3: and we understand that. So we can have a beautiful friendship,

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Speaker 3: we have a beautiful relation, we can have a brotherhood,

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Speaker 3: and it's all rooted in that common desire more fundamental

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Speaker 3: than anything that we disagree about, and that is the

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Speaker 3: desire to get at the truth.

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Speaker 2: Well in the book, So Cornell, in the book, I

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Speaker 2: noticed that you said in Looking for Truth, you don't

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Speaker 2: have to have one authority that pushes out all others,

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Speaker 2: which is essentially it seems like what you're saying right now.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's kind of how society has

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Speaker 2: changed in the past twenty years. We were talking about

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Speaker 2: how you've really had this strong friendship for twenty years now,

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Speaker 2: But in the past twenty years, I mean from the

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Speaker 2: time I.

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Speaker 1: Was in school to today.

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Speaker 2: I see the way my kids see things through totally

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Speaker 2: different lens than how we were taught, and it is

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Speaker 2: kind of like, well if this is if this is

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Speaker 2: one answer, then there can be no other answers. But

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Speaker 2: especially in politics, and that's something that I learned. I

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Speaker 2: think the hard way is that there is no sitting

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Speaker 2: down and discussing with one another when you are running

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Speaker 2: a race. I think that that then because politics, when

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Speaker 2: it comes to running the campaign part of politics becomes

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Speaker 2: so nasty, and there are ads that say there is

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Speaker 2: only one truth and this is this is nothing else

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Speaker 2: can be. You know, it's got to be black and white.

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Speaker 2: There's no gray area. It's got to be this or that.

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Speaker 2: It creates this division in society and those those parts,

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Speaker 2: those campaigns have become such a part of our life

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Speaker 2: that I think that once people get into government, those barriers,

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Speaker 2: those walls, that black and white decision is still up

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Speaker 2: and that's preventing society from moving forward in a good

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Speaker 2: way because these discussions don't happen between one party and

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Speaker 2: the other once you're elected, or they're not happening enough.

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Speaker 2: What did you find that same thing when you were

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Speaker 2: running for office? Cornell?

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Speaker 4: Very much so, very much so.

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Speaker 5: And I think, my dear sister, that that's part of

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Speaker 5: the spiritual decay and moral decatence. That is to say

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Speaker 5: that anytime people think that they have all the truth

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Speaker 5: on their side and the other side has nothing but

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Speaker 5: lives and evil, then you're pitting You're pitting people against

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Speaker 5: each other. And usually in the background it's just organized

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Speaker 5: greed and weaponized hatred. I mean, the history of the

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Speaker 5: species is organized greed and weaponized hatred and institutionalizing difference

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Speaker 5: towards the vulnerable. But Robbie and I we say no,

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Speaker 5: we come out of the socratic legacy of Athens. What

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Speaker 5: does that mean? Must dream the courage to think critically. Now,

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Speaker 5: an examined life is not worth living. We come out

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Speaker 5: of the prophetic legacy of Jerusalem, which is the courage

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Speaker 5: to love unapologetically, and it shatters all tribalism, all chauvinism,

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Speaker 5: even nationalism. We can love folk in Asia, in Europe

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Speaker 5: and Africa, in Detroit and Legos and wherever because they're

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Speaker 5: human beings. And it made the image of a great

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Speaker 5: and loving God, so that in that sense we're already

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Speaker 5: against the great And you're absolutely right. In America these

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Speaker 5: days we have to have more examples of people who

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Speaker 5: have the courage to think critically and the courage to love.

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Speaker 6: This is what Martin Luther, King Junior, Fanny louhim On

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Speaker 6: Dorothy Day, and Rabbi Heschel and others have tried to

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Speaker 6: teach us, and it's something that has to be exemplified.

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Speaker 6: Socrates exemplified critique by willing to die Jesus, my God.

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Speaker 4: Don't get us started on Jesus on the cross, with.

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Speaker 6: That blood at the bottom of that coross that could

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Speaker 6: change your life and turn you upside.

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Speaker 4: Down into a new creature.

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Speaker 2: That's what brought me and I are talking about stick

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Speaker 2: around for more with Cornell West and Robert P.

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Speaker 1: George.

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Speaker 2: But first let me tell you about my partners at IFCJ.

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Speaker 2: After more than a year of war, terror and pain

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Speaker 2: in Israel, there is still a great demand for basic

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Speaker 2: humanitarian aid. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has

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Speaker 2: supported and continues to support those in the Holy Land

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Speaker 2: responders and volunteers, wounded soldiers, elderly Holocaust survivors, families who've

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Speaker 2: One word, it's support, IFCJ dot org. Or you can

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Speaker 2: call eight eight eight four eight eight if CJ that's

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Speaker 2: eight eight eight four eight eight if CJ eight eight

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Speaker 2: eight four eight eight four three two five.

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Speaker 1: Now stick around. We've got more after this.

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Speaker 2: You talk about narcissism actually in the book as well,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that there has become this narcissism can

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Speaker 2: take over society and people, and so when you talk

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Speaker 2: about love, sometimes love is hard to give if you

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Speaker 2: can't get away from yourself in that and I think

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Speaker 2: we've we've created kind of this, I guess, manufactured narcissism

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Speaker 2: amongst groups.

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Speaker 1: That maybe they don't even realize it's happened.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: Over the weekend, I was actually in Hamtranmick, Michigan with

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Speaker 2: some of our Arab American communities and folks from our

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Speaker 2: air American community, and they said to me, you know,

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Speaker 2: after nine to eleven, we just didn't talk to Republicans,

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Speaker 2: and Republicans didn't talk to us. And that was a

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Speaker 2: moment where I thought, Man, how upsetting is this that

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Speaker 2: we couldn't find a way over twenty years to come

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Speaker 2: back together and sit down and talk. But that black

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Speaker 2: and white. You're on one side, we're on the other side.

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Speaker 2: It prevented conversation, and that becomes narcissism.

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Speaker 1: I mean what I heard you saying.

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Speaker 2: Of like, I have to look at this side and

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Speaker 2: say I can't reach out, I can't open up because

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Speaker 2: that side I believe is inherently wrong. How do you

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Speaker 2: know if you haven't sat down together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. One of the things about we

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Speaker 3: human beings, it's just human nature. It's the human condition.

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Speaker 3: We tend to wrap our emotions more or less tightly

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Speaker 3: around our convictions, around our beliefs. Now that in itself,

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Speaker 3: tutor is not a bad thing. We need some emotional

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Speaker 3: investment in what if we're to get up and get

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Speaker 3: anything done and not just working for great causes, even

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Speaker 3: the ordinary day to day things. Getting the children up

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Speaker 3: and fed and dressed and off to school. It's one

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Speaker 3: thing to have the bare belief it would be a

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Speaker 3: good thing to get the children up and dressed and

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Speaker 3: off to school. It's another thing to have the emotional

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Speaker 3: investment to actually get the job done and aforesioria. That's

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Speaker 3: the same with working for a cause that could require courage,

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Speaker 3: speaking up when the cause is unpopular, actually exerting yourself,

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Speaker 3: and so forth. So I'm not against having an emotional

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Speaker 3: investment in our convictions. But but if we find ourselves

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Speaker 3: wrapping our emotions too tightly around our convictions, so we're

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Speaker 3: not open to being challenged, open to being criticized, open

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Speaker 3: to the possibility that we're wrong, having some intellectual humility,

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Speaker 3: we will quickly find ourselves degenerating into dogmatists and idiologs,

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Speaker 3: and the next step from there is tribalism. Will only

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Speaker 3: associate with people who think like us, will end up

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Speaker 3: in the silo, one side only watching Fox News, only

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Speaker 3: reading the editorial page of the New York Times, the

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Speaker 3: other side only watching MSNBC or CNN, only reading the

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Speaker 3: editorial page of the New York Times, And pretty soon

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Speaker 3: we're thinking of our fellow citizens who happen to disagree

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Speaker 3: with us, not as fellow citizens and civic friends who

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Speaker 3: happen to disagree, but rather as enemies people to be

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Speaker 3: defeated and indeed destroyed. And that's the real danger of

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Speaker 3: this moment of polarization. And that's why we've got to

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Speaker 3: be talking to each other and the grown ups. The

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Speaker 3: grown ups, whether your parents or your teachers, or your pastors,

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Speaker 3: or your coaches or ordinary people, have to be modeling

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Speaker 3: for the younger generation that willingness to engage in open

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Speaker 3: truth seeking.

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Speaker 2: How do you show that on the national level, though,

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Speaker 2: I mean, Cornell, you ran.

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Speaker 1: For office, you saw how ugly it can be.

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Speaker 2: And actually, before we got on, Robert and I were

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Speaker 2: talking about how for me, it started out with my

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Speaker 2: own side being so hard to sit down with because

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Speaker 2: everybody has there, they're all in their corner, and they've

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Speaker 2: decided that they're going to label you as this or

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Speaker 2: that because they're trying to keep you from getting to

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Speaker 2: a place they don't think you deserve to be. And

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Speaker 2: you battle your own side, and then you get to

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Speaker 2: the next side, and you're battling that side, and ultimately

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Speaker 2: you come out bloody and damage, and you haven't had

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Speaker 2: the effect that you expected to have because you never

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Speaker 2: got to the point where you could sit down and

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Speaker 2: have those conversations. So how do when you look at

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Speaker 2: that being how our leadership structure is built, how do

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Speaker 2: we get back to where the founding fathers were, Where

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Speaker 2: it was a great discussion. Everything was deeply thought out.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was just who can I throw this

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Speaker 2: bill out to and get some a big press release

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Speaker 2: on it. It was genuinely what's best for community and society.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a powerful question.

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Speaker 5: But we have to keep in mind that even when

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Speaker 5: we go back, going back to the seventeen seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 5: you still have Micavelian politics taking places.

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Speaker 4: If we don't want to be romantic about the past,

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Speaker 4: that's a.

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Speaker 5: Name calling and finger pointing and undermining going on in politics,

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Speaker 5: because that is the nature of a spear that puts

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Speaker 5: power at the center power political power, economic power.

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Speaker 4: I believe in spiritual power.

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Speaker 5: I believe in a moral power, and therefore we hold

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Speaker 5: on to the moral and spiritual power in those fears,

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Speaker 5: which means it's crucifim you know you're gonna get crucified,

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Speaker 5: you're gonna get trashed, you're gonna rebuke, you're gonna get scorn,

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Speaker 5: But you got something bigger than what's coming at you,

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Speaker 5: and that's what's important. And you're falling back on the

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Speaker 5: joy that the world didn't give it. In the world

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Speaker 5: can't take away you, falling back on the love that

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Speaker 5: the world didn't give you. In the world can't take away. Now,

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Speaker 5: if you don't have that, you completelyss to come to

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Speaker 5: the chicanery of Machavelian politics. But if you do have

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Speaker 5: that spiritual and moral power, it can never be crushed.

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Speaker 2: Are there people from the past though, that you do

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Speaker 2: think that there are benefits from that you can learn from,

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Speaker 2: because I think you put that in the book as well,

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Speaker 2: that there are you have to go through and learn

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Speaker 2: from the past, and there are good parts of people,

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Speaker 2: and then there's obviously things that you have to teach.

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Speaker 2: But today I think oftentimes we're like, oh, we're going

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Speaker 2: to throw the baby out with the bathwater because there's

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Speaker 2: something that we don't like. They don't fit the mold

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Speaker 2: of present time, so we can't learn about them, but

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Speaker 2: we have to learn about them correct well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and there are models. I mean, nobody's perfect obviously,

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Speaker 3: and we shouldn't glamorize the past or figures from the past,

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Speaker 3: but we should recognize that there are genuine heroes and

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Speaker 3: people we can learn from and people we can emulate.

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Speaker 3: Let me talk about a couple one George Washington. Now,

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Speaker 3: when Cornell was just talking about Machiavellian politics going all

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Speaker 3: the way back to the founding, I immediately thought, Cornell,

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Speaker 3: you'll recognize this of the election of eighteen hundred. It was.

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Speaker 3: It was, if anything, worse than what we have today.

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Speaker 3: I think the only polarization more extreme than what we

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Speaker 3: have today is that at the time of the Civil War.

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Speaker 3: But if you'd ask in American history, what's the second

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Speaker 3: most polarized point, I wouldn't say twenty twenty five. As

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Speaker 3: bad as the situation is today, it's very bad and

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Speaker 3: worth worrying about. It was eighteen hundred we almost lost

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Speaker 3: the country. The Federalists were in power John Adams, the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Republicans under Jefferson, also known as the Jeffersonians, they

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Speaker 3: were challenging the Federalists for power. When the Jeffersonians won,

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Speaker 3: Thomas Jefferson elected president. It was an open question Tutor

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Speaker 3: whether the Federalists would allow peaceful transfer of power for

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Speaker 3: the first time in a democracy, actually very new way.

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Speaker 3: They called it republican government. They preferred that word to

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Speaker 3: the word democracy, which had some negative connotations to them.

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Speaker 3: That the first time power really peacefully transferring in virtue

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Speaker 3: of a genuine election, and the bitterness of the campaign,

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Speaker 3: the dreadful things they said a bit about each other,

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Speaker 3: the slander and label going forth in both directions, and

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Speaker 3: beyond even what we are seeing today. But Washington stood

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Speaker 3: above that kind of thing. He somehow managed to win

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Speaker 3: the respect of people across the spectrum, and for as

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Speaker 3: long as we had him, he was able to hold

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Speaker 3: the country together, hold the warring factions together. Now famously

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Speaker 3: he warned against political parties because he knew that that

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Speaker 3: polarization would come. But I think the truth of the

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Speaker 3: matter is that political parties and polarization are inevitable. So

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Speaker 3: even the Great Washington couldn't stand up against it. But nevertheless,

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Speaker 3: he was the model, and he was the indispensable man.

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Speaker 3: Had he not been there at that time, this whole

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Speaker 3: thing would not have worked. We never would have gotten

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Speaker 3: the American founding. Second figure like Frederick Douglas, Frederick Flood,

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Speaker 3: born into slavery, became one of the great thinkers, in

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Speaker 3: one of the great orators, and a person who had

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Speaker 3: to wrestle with the question, what should my posture as

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Speaker 3: a black man, as a slave be toward this experiment,

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Speaker 3: this democratic so called democratic experiment. Is it really a democracy?

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Speaker 3: Douglas is asking himself a republic to use that again,

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Speaker 3: the language preferred by the founding generation, given that we've

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Speaker 3: got this horrible practice of slavery. And there was a

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Speaker 3: time in Douglas's life when he thought that the Constitution

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Speaker 3: was what William Lloyd Garrison said, it was a pact

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Speaker 3: with Hell and a covenant with death, the work and

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Speaker 3: the devil. And yet he came around to seeing that

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Speaker 3: our constitutional system, although it's conceived without our abolition of

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Speaker 3: slavery at the beginning, is the road for it will

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Speaker 3: pave the way to the full blessings of liberty for all,

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Speaker 3: not two classes based on race or anything like that,

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Speaker 3: Liberty for all. And then other people who I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: people who stand above the ideological divide that we see today.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Fanny lou Hamer. Cornell mentioned her early.

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Speaker 3: It's a great figure, towering figure in the civil rights moment.

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Speaker 3: Now Fanny lou Haber was at the same time. She

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Speaker 3: would be considered a progressive today because of her views

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Speaker 3: on civil rights, and she would be considered a conservative

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Speaker 3: today because of her profound pro life witness. She doesn't

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Speaker 3: fit into a category where we think, well, we got

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Speaker 3: to think this way because this is what our tribe

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Speaker 3: believes about this issue. In that issue, you got a

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Speaker 3: woman like Fanny Louhimer who thinks for herself and she

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Speaker 3: doesn't come down based on where her partisan ideological camp

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Speaker 3: is supposed to place her. She thinks through these issues

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Speaker 3: and she comes down where she comes down based on

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Speaker 3: her own best judgment. So I think these are models

436
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 3: that are young people should know about.

437
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: Cornell, Do you have anything you want to add to that.

438
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 5: I would say that one of the signs of the

439
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 5: declining empire is when the precious younger generation don't have

440
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 5: access to the best of their own history, the best

441
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 5: of their own heritage. If what is available to them,

442
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 5: it's simply truncated options that do not put a premium

443
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 5: on integrity, honesty, decency, courage, and love. You can rest

444
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 5: assured that the society is sliding down the slope to

445
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 5: chaos when you have a collapse of civic courage. And

446
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 5: this is what you get in politics, right, a collapse

447
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 5: of civic courage. Well, what takes the place of it? Well,

448
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 5: we human beings, and human beings anytime as a vacuum

449
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 5: you're going to, it's going to be feeled by something

450
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 5: that is less than mediocre. The benchmark of spiritual maturity

451
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 5: is always humility and unstopped will joy, and tied to

452
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 5: that is tenacity, moral spiritual witness regardless in the world,

453
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 5: but not of the world, and nothing can stop you.

454
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because I look at young people today

455
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: and I think they're so connected to their phones and

456
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: their iPads and everything else, and they get their information there.

457
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: And here I listen to you talking about all of

458
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: these great philosophers and writers of the past that have.

459
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: Shaped how we think today.

460
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: And I said something to my girls about, well, don't

461
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: you have to go to a library to research that?

462
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: And they're like, a library, mom, We're just going to

463
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: look it up on the internet.

464
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, but you have no idea if what

465
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: you're looking up on the internet is actually true. How

466
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: do you know what you're researching for your research paper.

467
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: So how do we get people back into that mindset

468
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: or how do we I guess we're always today looking

469
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: at ways to re create the way we grew up,

470
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: and I hear parents all the time saying we've got

471
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: to take cell phones away. They can't have cell phones

472
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: until they get into their senior year of high school.

473
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: And I think, but that's not.

474
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: Realistic either, because society has just changed, and this is

475
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: how society is now. So how do we look at

476
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: what we have today and still make sure that we're

477
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: getting the education that we should without saying we can

478
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: stop technology and we can stop what's actually happening in

479
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: life today, Because you can't.

480
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: I think we have to imbue our children all really

481
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: beginning quite early, you know, as soon as they can

482
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: be aware that there are differences of opinion and so forth.

483
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 3: We have to imbue our children with the truth seeking spirit,

484
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: in other words, with an understanding that we can be

485
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: wrong about things, and we therefore have to listen to

486
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: the best arguments on the competing sides before we make

487
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: up our minds about things. Young people today are brought

488
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: up to suppose here's our trotbe and here's our tribe's

489
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: position on something, and so this is the position that

490
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: we will go to the mat defending and the other

491
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: side of the bad guys, and we're going to defeat them.

492
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: I preached the message to my students that while you

493
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 3: have the right to your views, there's a certain sense

494
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: in which you have to earn that right. What do

495
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: I mean by that? You have to think your way

496
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 3: to your views. If you just pick up your views

497
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: because they are tribal, then you haven't earned your right

498
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: to those views. I'm not sure why I should exercise

499
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 3: great deal of respect for that. You just pick them up,

500
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: they haven't thought your way through to them. If you've

501
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: thought your way to your views, and your views happen

502
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 3: to be diametrically opposed to mine, nevertheless, you are entitled

503
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: to those views because you have earned them, you've thought

504
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: your way to them. It's not a question of whether

505
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: you agree or disagree with me. That's not what wins

506
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: my respect is whether you've thought about it. And that

507
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: really does mean considering the best that's been said on

508
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: the competing sides. Really, we have to warn our children

509
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 3: against we don't have to use the fancy term, but

510
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 3: warn our children against confirmation bias. That is, using resources

511
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: like internet resources, google searches, and so forth, simply to

512
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 3: find evidence to confirm what they already think. They need

513
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 3: to use the resources available, whether they're in an old

514
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: fashioned library or on the World Wide Web, used the

515
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 3: resources to engage the best evidence, the best arguments, the

516
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: best that has been thought and said on the competing sides,

517
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: so that they can reason their way to judgments that

518
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: are truly thereon That is, they're learning to think more deeply,

519
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 3: more critically, which always includes self critically and for themselves.

520
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

521
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast.

522
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 2: It's interesting we had a similar conversation to this in

523
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: our house last night because one of the members of

524
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: my household came to me, oh, Trump is doing this

525
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: and it's going to have this effect. And I said,

526
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: I haven't even heard about can't remember what it was,

527
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: but I said, I haven't even.

528
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: Heard about what you're talking about. Show me what you're seeing.

529
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: And they pulled up one website and said, look, this

530
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: website says that doing this is going to have this effect.

531
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, well, are there any other people

532
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: who have talked about this?

533
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: At all. Well, I don't know.

534
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: I just read it here, and I said, but this

535
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: is where I think we need to look and see

536
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: is there another thought? Is there someone else that thinks

537
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: something different about how this policy will affect the country,

538
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: Because I'm not saying there, And this was the exact

539
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: kind of conversation he said, I'm not saying they're wrong.

540
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: I just want to see how other people have thought

541
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: about it. And I feel like you should want to

542
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: see how other people have thought about it too.

543
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 4: No, you're absolutely right about that.

544
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: You know you don't want to accept just one version

545
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: of what has been said, and you need a variety

546
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 5: of different versions.

547
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: Shakespeare says, ripeness is all And what does it mean

548
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: by that? King? Here?

549
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 5: He means a wise judgment and a loving soul is

550
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 5: a result of a process of maturation, of growing up.

551
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: If you're twenty five years old, you still reading Doctor

552
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 5: Seus's Time to break through.

553
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: Time to make a breakthrough.

554
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: But once you have that, you can go to the

555
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 5: internet and find a whole host of fascinating things competing views.

556
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: So critique Jesus.

557
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 5: Martin, Luther King, Junior, Tony Morrison, Herbert Melville. There's a

558
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 5: lot of good stuff on the Internet, but you have

559
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 5: to approach the Internet as a wise and loving soul.

560
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 5: If you're bringing a narcissistic self to the Internet, you're

561
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 5: gonna end up with narcissistic information. It's that shaping of

562
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 5: the soul that Plato talks about with such wisdom in

563
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 5: the Republic. That's at the core of what it is

564
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 5: to be a person of character, let alone a person

565
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 5: of civic courage in the democracy and trouble.

566
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 3: That's so true, and I think it's important, Tutor, that

567
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: we learned from our mistakes. I'll give you an example

568
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: from my own life. I'm embarrassed to say, but it's

569
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 3: true where I made a terrible mistake. A few years ago.

570
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: I saw on the internet that video that was viral

571
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: about the boys from Covenant School in Kentucky who appeared

572
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: to be harassing an American Indian man on the I

573
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: believe it was on the steps of the Supreme Court

574
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: or something like that. Well, I saw that, and to

575
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: my eyes, it looked like they were disrespecting that man,

576
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: they were being abusive toward him, and so I fired off.

577
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: I didn't think I didn't check. I fired off a

578
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: tweet it went on my social media accounts and said

579
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: something condemnatory about those Covenant kids, and of course, within

580
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: a day or two, we got the whole tape and

581
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: we could see that those young men, as it turned out,

582
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: were completely innocent, that they had not harassed or in

583
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: any way abused that man. And so what I had

584
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: to do? Who was with my tail between my legs?

585
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: Post again, saying I've now seen the full tape. I

586
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: made a mistake. I jumped the gun. I condemned those kids.

587
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 3: I actually wrote a letter down to the school apologizing

588
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: to the students, asking the principal to share this because

589
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: I'd been one of the people who on the internet

590
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: had condemned those young men. But I learned a lesson

591
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 3: from that, you know, check, don't just take a first impression.

592
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: No, I mean, and that's the point of making sure

593
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: that you are leading by example. It's interesting because my

594
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: nephew was a classmate of that boy, and we happened

595
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: that day to be at my husband's grandmother's funeral, and

596
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: that story just started spreading.

597
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: You could see through.

598
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: The cell phones because we were in northern Kentucky and

599
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: everybody was a student at that school, and my nephew

600
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 2: looked at his phone and I said, oh my god,

601
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: do you.

602
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: Know this kid? And he was like, this is shockingly yes,

603
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: and this is not who he is. Because at that

604
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: point we were like, you know, we thought, well did it.

605
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 2: But everybody's instant reaction in the room was this kid,

606
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: this is not.

607
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: Who he is.

608
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: But we're so quick now to immediately make a conclusion,

609
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: and then it is I think so often the influencers

610
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: or the people who have authority on the internet are

611
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: quick to go out there and immediately say this is

612
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: what this is I and I want you to be

613
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: mad about it, because you know what, when it's something happy,

614
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: when it's something joyful, when you're spreading the word that's today,

615
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: that doesn't travel as fast on the internet as when

616
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: you're angry about something as.

617
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: Sad as that is. But that's the beauty of this book.

618
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: And so I mean, honestly, when I read this book,

619
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, truth matters. It is so important for

620
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: us to be constantly seeking truth. And that's what I

621
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: want my girls to understand.

622
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: My girls.

623
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: I have twins that are eleven, and then I have

624
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old and a fifteen year old and

625
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: they are right at those ages where they are drawn

626
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: to the video, to this, to that.

627
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: But I read through this book and I was like, wow.

628
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: This is it's beyond a lot of their understanding right now,

629
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: but not really as because it's a conversation, and that's

630
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: when you are seeking to engage in any type of

631
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 2: dialogue in society. I would urge people to get the book.

632
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 2: It's Truth Matters, a dialogue on fruitful disagreement in an

633
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: age of division, and you are really it really is

634
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: a conversation back and forth. But it's not just that

635
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: we are learning how you two communicate. You wrote this

636
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: in a way that we are learning how to communicate

637
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: with people we may not always agree with, but we

638
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 2: should love.

639
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 3: Well. Yes, that was our goal, and I hope we

640
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 3: are corent at least made some progress toward a It's

641
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: just such a pleasure and blessing to work with brother

642
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 3: Cornell on something like this because it's just an illuminating

643
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 3: dialogue I learned from the process. On the question of

644
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: young people reading it, please do make it available to

645
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 3: teenagers who are in your home. Our editor, Adam Bellow,

646
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: did a very good service. He required us to when

647
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 3: we introduced a fancy concept or a literary or philosophical

648
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: figure from history. He made us explain what we were

649
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 3: talking about, who this person was, what this concept means.

650
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: So I hope that made it more readable. I think

651
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: it is readable.

652
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: It is very readable.

653
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 3: Yes, sixteen year old kids. And this really should be

654
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 3: our target audience, the kids who need to learn the

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Speaker 3: lesson that truth matters, and we have to love truth

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00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: and seek truth even above opinion, where we have to

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00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: be willing to have the courage to face the truth,

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00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: even where it contradicts an opinion that we have come

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00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: to hold and cherish. This is a lesson they need

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00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: to learn above all. So if you ask me, what's

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00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: the main audience, Honestly, I don't know what Partnell would say.

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00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: I would say younger people. I'd love this book to

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00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 3: be in the hands of younger people. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that the older folks like us are beyond hope. I'm

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00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: not saying that, but I really think that we can

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Speaker 3: reach younger people here with this message.

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Speaker 4: No, that's so true. That's true.

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Speaker 5: We're calling for a spiritual awakening and a moral renaissance.

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00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 5: It has to do with Mitchie manity of each and

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00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 5: every one of us. And of course it's zeros in

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00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 5: on the least of these coming out of twenty fifth

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00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 5: chapter of Matthew, but it embraces humanity of ever re

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00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 5: one and we intend to go down swing in no

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Speaker 5: matter how unpopular it is.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love it. I think it's fantastic. I think

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00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: everybody should go out and get it. And that is

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Speaker 2: what I did think as I was reading it. This

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00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: would be great for my girls because they're right at

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00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: that moment where and we talked about this at church

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00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: over the weekend. Somebody was talking about I'm sending my

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00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: daughter off to school, and I said, the problem is

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00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 2: I don't want to send her off to school and

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00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: then lose her to this society of.

684
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: Not being able to engage anymore.

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00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: But this is my It's not that I will lose

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00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: her to a different ideal or a different value set.

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Speaker 1: It's that I'll lose her to discussion.

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00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of this book is that don't

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00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 2: don't step away from the discussion. That's the lesson here,

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Speaker 2: and I want her to have that lesson. I want

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Speaker 2: my other girls to have that lesson. So I just

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00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: want you to know that I appreciate that you are

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Speaker 2: putting this out there for all of us to see,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for coming on today.

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Speaker 1: It is Cornell West and Robert P. George. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being with me.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Tutor, thank you, God bless you and your

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00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 4: bridgious family.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you all for joining

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Speaker 2: us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,

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00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: go to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts and join us us

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Speaker 2: next time, have a blessed day,