WEBVTT - The Parrotfish, Part 1 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.080 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.720 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.720 My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.280 And today on the podcast, we're going to be beginning 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:24.960 a look at parrotfish or parrot fishes. This is one 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.000 of those topics that literally just started with me looking 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.479 at a picture. I was staring at a picture of 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:37.720 a bizarre, goofy, goofy appearing animal and thinking I want 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.800 to know more about this critter, and then discovering that, indeed, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.920 this organism is a peculiar and fascinating story, and there 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.440 is so much more to it than you might guess 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.640 just by looking at it at its strange beak or 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:51.440 toothy mouth. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.640 Yeah, parrotfish are pretty fascinating. I've snorkeled among the parrotfish 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.480 many times and can a test that they are. They're 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.600 curiously fish, They're pleasure to watch, They're often very colorful. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.320 So I'm going to throw in more of my observations 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.280 as we proceed. But I think, on the other hand, 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.319 in coral reef environments, where I've done most of my snorkeling, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.440 and where a lot of snorkeling takes place. They can 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.240 actually be easy to take for granted because they're generally 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.560 around in significant numbers that these environments. Often these are 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.480 protected reefs that I've been to, they're not particularly shy, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.680 They're easily found in shallow water, so you know, oftentimes 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.959 you're dealing with like reef environments that are either very 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.920 accessible just from the shore or just a very short 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.880 boat ride sort of a situation. So in a way, 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.480 it's easy to take them for granted because they're there, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.760 you see them, and then you end up focusing a 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.560 lot more of your attention looking for some of the 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.840 harder to find organisms that are going to live in 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.000 these reef environments. So it's actually a great opportunity to 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.760 stop and focus on this remarkable fish that I honestly 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.680 had never really thought about devoting a whole episode or 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.880 series of episodes too. But there's more than enough to 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:06.320 talk about. 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.079 I've never snorkeled and seen them in person, so I'm 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.959 envious of this experience and maybe I will someday. I 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.120 look forward to that. But I've seen video and in 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.280 some cases that there's almost a feeling of like bees 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.560 buzzing around a shrub that's covered in flowers. You know, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.040 it's just kind of the general gentle grazing activity of 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.040 some animals surrounding a plant like structure, but in this 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.400 case it's the big skeleton of stony corals. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.520 Yeah, the grazing observation is key, and it's something that 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.400 has long been observed for these creatures, as we'll discuss. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.360 You know, going back into ancient times, even when we 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.240 didn't have snorkelers as we think of them today, you 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.880 still had individuals fishing in shallow environments, sometimes fishing for 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.440 the parrotfish in question, and observing that, hey, these creatures 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.320 appear to be grazing, unlike most of the fish we 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:00.919 are observing. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:06.320 So parrotfish are not one species, but a larger group 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.040 of fish, containing about ninety something individual species. I've seen 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.000 different estimates on the numbers. I think it's older ones 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.440 that say maybe like eighty species, others say closer to 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.760 one hundred, but I think ninety something is about right. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:23.360 They range broadly in terms of size and appearance. In fact, 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.200 they range broadly in terms of appearance even within a species, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.000 as we'll get to maybe in this part or maybe later, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.000 but some adult parrotfish are less than a foot in length, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.600 and some of the largest are almost four feet or 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.880 about one point two meters in length, so they can 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.760 range from medium small to quite large. These fish are 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.200 sometimes taxonomized as a family called Scarid and in other 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.800 cases regarded as a subfamily of Labyridy, which are commonly 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.680 known as the rasses. I think you can see some 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.040 morphological similarities with the fish called rasses, kind of the 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.680 way they swim. These they're pectoral fins and stuff like that. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.440 But a characteristic com into many parrotfishes is that they 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.960 tend to live around coral reefs, especially in the tropics. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.520 I also want to throw in there that there are 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.520 occasionally fish that are just sort of commonly called a 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.919 parrotfish or informally called a parrotfish, that are not parrotfish, 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.120 mainly the blood red parrot chick lid, which apparently is 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.719 a popular aquarium species. This is not actually related to 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.720 proper parrotfish that we're going to be talking about here today. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.400 And I've also seen some some fossil evidence that is 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.360 sometimes categorized as a parrotfish in a way that I'm 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.320 not sure actually lines up with what we're talking about here. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.000 But if you've seen a picture of a parrotfish, proper parrotfish, indeed, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.080 go ahead and look one up if you're in a 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.599 position to do so. I think it's hard to miss 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.200 what we're talking about. These are very recognizable fish, though 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.719 again they do very greatly in coloration. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.880 Size, that's right, Yeah, So if you look up pictures 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.719 of them, you'll see that they're often kind of elongated 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.400 in body. They have different shapes. Some are more kind 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.080 of that elongated oval shape and others are blunter in 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.800 the front with like blunt heads. They're, in fact, are 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.960 parrotfish called like the blunt head pair of parrotfish or 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.440 the steep head parrotfish. The coloration you'll see on them 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.200 depends on some facts about them and not just their species. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.159 But sometimes they have quite bright patterns of almost neon color, 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.640 surprising colors to see in nature, very you know, tropical 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.599 kind of color signals. There's one picture I kept seeing 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.200 where the fish had a color pattern that reminded me 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.320 of the jazz design from paper cups in the nineties. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.640 But if you also threw some hot pink in there, 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.920 so there's a lot to take in when you look 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.400 at a parrot fish. But before you notice any of that, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.640 but you know, the head shape, the body shape, the 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.039 coloration patterns, what you will probably notice first about any 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.680 given parrotfish is the mouth. I mean, look at these chompers, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.320 rob I've included just several pictures. I know you've seen 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.279 them in person, so your experience of the teeth the 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.839 beak is probably more direct and visceral and profound even 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.520 than mine. But I was just looking at these pictures 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.760 for quite a while the other day, and my god, 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.000 these beaks, these mouths, it's it's incredible. 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:28.080 Yeah. Yeah, their mouths are quite fascinating in some of 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.080 the photos. Yeah, they can actually look a little intimidating, though, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.680 I would say, based on the species that I've primarily 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.640 been exposed to in Hawaii and the Caribbean, they tend 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.120 to look more silly than threatening. But they're definitely very 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.440 cool looking, not taking anything away from that. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.200 Yeah, So I guess it varies from species to species. 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.840 So parrotfish have these rows of fused teeth on the 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.839 outside of their jaws, which, in some cases, as the 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.120 name implies, look very very similar to the beak of 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.560 a parrot. It can look like a bird's beak, but 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.919 in other cases these fused rows of teeth look like 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.320 jagged monster jaws, sort of like a horseshoe shaped ceramic 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.040 saw blade. But in other cases still they are like 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.800 a big goofy cartoon overbite, like Alfred y Newman's mouth 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.840 got hit with the radiation from the amazing colossal Man. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.280 Now I want to throw in one more note here 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:32.240 about species classifications coloration. It is worth noting that with 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.320 parrotfish that classifications and naming have long proof challenging because 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.400 they tend to show different colorizations depending on an individual's 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.360 age and sex. So, for examples pointed out by the 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:49.800 Waikiki Aquarium, the spectacled parrotfish is reddish brown when it's 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.800 a juvenile, then it develops a pale tail spot when 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.040 it becomes a reproductive female, and then develops bright blue 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.840 green coloration with pink markings when it becomes male. So 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.440 you can imagine a lot of the early confusion at 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.680 figuring out, well, what is a different species of parrotfish? 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.960 And you will have multiple species of parrotfish in a 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.520 given region, and then what is just parrotfish are the 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.440 same species that's just in a different phase of its life. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.080 Cycle, that's right. In fact, I was even reading, like 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.480 some blog posts by marine biologists who had worked with 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.560 these animals firsthand, talking about just how difficult it was 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.480 sometimes to identify these fish because of all the variation 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.760 even within species. But to come back to the main attraction, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.080 the teeth, the beaks. The crazy thing is, as much 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.040 as these look like biting teeth in some cases, in 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:48.040 reality they are scraping teeth. Because parrotfish are primarily herbivores 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.959 for the most part, they do not eat by swimming 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.040 around biting semi circular chunks out of other fish, as 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.240 you might imagine just looking at their mouths. They mostly 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.840 eat by grazing along the hard surfaces of coral reefs, 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.959 scraping away algae and soft bits of coral and other 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:12.240 bits of organic matter along with some hard bits of 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.320 the coral skeletons with their teeth. So that's what the 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.880 teeth are for. These are for grazing. These are the 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.640 life of a herbivore, not the life of a predator. 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.480 Now, of course, as this we'll be discussing here, Coral, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.720 of course is hard matter, and one of the crazy 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.680 things about snorkeling with parrotfish is that you don't just 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.640 get to watch them, you get to listen to them. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.440 So as they feast on the algae that's growing on 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.280 the coral, they're scraping the coral and it's producing a 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.680 sound in the snorkeler's ear that I would compare to 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:48.400 kind of a static paper crunching or even the snap 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.640 crackle crunch of rice crispies and milk. It's one of 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.240 those things when when you first explore. When I first 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.160 experienced it, I wasn't exactly sure what I was listening to, 0:09:58.200 --> 0:09:59.800 because it's kind of like, is there something in my 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.080 ear and it's just just the sound of the ocean 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.679 and so forth. But no, it it becomes clear, and 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.760 it's often pointed out to one that yeah, this is 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:12.000 the sound of these the parrotfish feeding, and yeah, it's 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.080 it's pretty remarkable. So you listen to them, you watch them, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.720 and they just become part of the background sound escape 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:19.600 to your snortling. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.680 It's a funny other comparison to bees almost, you know, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.719 the way the buzzing of a bee just kind of 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.560 like blends in becomes the ambient sound of a landscape. 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.959 The tooth and beak scraping on coral sound produced by 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.080 these animals is maybe comparable to the buzzing of bees. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.319 Yeah, and it's also consistent, like that's the other thing. 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.920 They're constantly grazing, and therefore it is a constant soundtrack. 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.520 It's not like say the occasional sound of a woodpecker 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.920 in a forest, Like it's just NonStop. So it's just 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.240 in the background, and you could easily if you didn't 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.199 know what you were listening to, you might not realize 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.400 that this is the sound of organisms feeding. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.400 Now, I think there were probably other people out there 0:10:58.440 --> 0:10:59.959 like me, Rob. I don't know if you've fall into 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.040 this category of people whose minds are easily captured and 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:10.120 revolted by just imagining kind of tooth trauma. Like I 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.200 very easily can like get a shiver across my whole 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.720 body when I imagine, say, trying to bite down on 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.119 a rock. And that is what you have to constantly 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.920 imagine when you're thinking about these animals. It's not technically 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:23.840 a rock, though I guess in some cases they do 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.240 scrape rocks as well, but most often it's going to 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.320 be like a rock. It will be the skeletons of 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.679 stony corals. But can you just imagine that, as painful 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.920 as it might be, imagine having to live by like seeing, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.480 you know, a moss covered rock and thinking, I'm going 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.400 to use my front teeth to scrape that bad boy clean, 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.240 and I'm going to bite off some chunks of the 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.600 rock as I'm getting the moss off of it. Delicious. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.320 Yeah, yeah, it can be a bit squeamish. It can 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.040 make one a bit squamish sometimes imagining these other dental 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.280 scenarios in the natural world. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.199 So I want to talk a bit more late or 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.080 about how parrotfish eat and get their nutrition, and a 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.720 bit more about their teeth. But before we do that, Rob, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.640 I think you've found some interesting stuff about writings on 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.280 parrotfish from the ancient world. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.880 Yeah. I did. And this was a whole avenue that 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.240 I had not been down. I had no idea this 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:22.000 was a thing. So again, given that species of parrotfish 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.480 are found around the world, and that they can frequently 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.120 be found in shallow water, and that they have traditionally 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.440 been caught for culinary purposes for food, it should come 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.800 as no surprise that these fish were known to people 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.760 of the ancient world. You know, even in times when 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:44.160 folks didn't have access to the underwater world in any 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.000 way comparable to what we have today, they still knew 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.720 what these fish were, and in some cases they had 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.200 some rather insightful ideas about what they were doing. In 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.600 other cases, there are some very long standing misconceptions about 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.600 what parrotfish do. So in this we're going to actually 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.439 bring up the work of our dear old friend Roman 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.280 historian Plenty of the Elder, who is one of several 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.480 sources of antiquity that discusses the parrot fish, you know, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.400 and of course there's a lot of shared content and 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.400 so forth going on. The fish would have been known 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.040 as the scaris. This is of course, now where we 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.600 get the name of the genus for parrotfish, and we 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.840 might assume that in particular we're dealing with discussions of 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.040 the Mediterranean parrotfish, though based on what I was reading, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.640 also you had like the red sea parrotfish that was 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:39.240 also known to various cultures of antiquity. So Plenty of 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.280 the Elder in the Natural History seventy nine CE rites 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.400 at the present day the first place, and this is 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.840 he's speaking from a culinary perspective here. First place at 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.840 the Roman table is given to the scas the only 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.959 fish that is said to ruminate and to feed on grass, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.760 and not on other fish commonly found in the Carpathian Sea, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.679 and never of its own accord passes lectum a promontory 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.960 of trois now. Nineteenth century naturalist George Cuvier and his 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.400 annotations to Plenty points out again that the first place 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.760 here is in reference to the Roman dinner table, where 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:25.160 this fish was celebrated for several attributed characteristics that I'll 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.560 get to in a minute, and was also typically quote 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.240 salted with the intestines in it. M m okay, and 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.280 some Roman authors actually absolutely insisted that you do not 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.440 eat this fish without the intestines included. It's just too 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:40.440 delicious this way. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.960 Oh boy. So like, are you saying they would eat 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.760 the intestines directly or it's like you got to leave 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.760 the intestines in there to give the meat some flavor. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.400 You've got to leave them in Yeah, okay. And I 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.360 know they were often in many cultures salted and then traded, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.440 So I'm offhand, I'm not entirely sure if this is 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.480 a deaf in case of we're talking about salted parrotfish 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.480 with the intestines still in, or some other form of 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.120 preparing them. But at any right, they really liked it. 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.760 There are also Roman references to eating parrotfish livers as. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.160 A delicacy, so all the value here is just for 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.120 their flesh as food. This is a first place distinction 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.560 that would probably not be so flattering to the fish itself. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.280 Right right, And the Romans weren't alone in appreciating eating parrotfishes. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.280 We'll get to some other far flowing examples. Plenty of 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.680 humans have eaten parrotfish and still eat parrotfish. The Greeks 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:41.800 love them. There's some I think twenty species of Mediterranean parrotfish. Again, 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.200 there's the red sea parrotfish, considered a delicacy in antiquity. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.440 And in both of these cases I believe they were 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.320 often dried and then widely traded. I've read that, in fact, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.960 they were easily dried. I'm not sure about the particulars 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:00.400 of that, but but I I'll take the word on 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.160 it that, Okay, this is a fish that is easier 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.800 to dry and prepare and then trade across distances. You 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.880 don't have to eat it fresh by the seaside. Anyway, 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.760 it was celebrated at the Roman table, not just because 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.520 you ate it salted and with the guts in it, 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:21.000 but also for several reasons, according to Cuvier. And I 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:22.720 think a lot of these seem to get down to 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.880 the fact that I'm assuming the Romans liked a great 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.240 story at the table. You know, it's not just about 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.600 what the fish smells like, taste like, looks like on 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.920 the plate, but also what is the story of it, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.480 what ideas are wrapped up in this particular organism. So 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.800 hear that first of all, it was thought to be 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.120 the only ruminating fish. 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:47.320 So wait, does that mean ruminating as in like chewing 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.160 the cud like a cow or a sheep. 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.400 Yes, though basically I think what this comes down. First 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.240 of all, they're not truly chewing the cut. They're not 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.560 truly ruminating, you know, they're not chewing something that is 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:04.399 previously been chewed and swallowed. They are grazing like a cow. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.399 And I think it has to do with observations of 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.119 these animals grazing, and it's like, oh, look, they're like 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.720 a cow. They're ruminating. But still the idea that they're 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.760 ruminating the idea that they're chewing their cut continues to 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.280 be mentioned all through antiquity on all the way up 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.240 through like medieval besty areas, though some voices such as 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.680 Saint Ambrose in the fourth century said that did point 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.280 out the chud. The cud chewing thing is not accurate, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.520 that's not what they're doing. So but still a lot 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.040 of misinformation about these fish persisted for a very long 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.120 time now. As Aristotle also observed in History of Animals, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:49.040 the parrettfish were thought to be vegetarians, and indeed, I 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.960 guess you could say they're essentially herbivores. Many sources will 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.000 classify them as such, but also note that they're maybe 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.119 more more correct to say that they're algavores. But still, well, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.399 ancient people observe that these fish are not eating in 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.000 the same way that other fish are. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.159 Wow, this is something I feel like I should know 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.320 the answer to, but I actually don't. What is it called? 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:14.119 If you mostly eat you know, algae or plant things 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.400 that are like plants, plants, or types of bacteria microorganisms, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.399 but sometimes you eat animals, but the animals are not 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.720 like you know, large moving animals, they're you know, basically 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.480 small invertebrate animals like corals. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.159 Yeah, I guess you would be some sort of a 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.520 coral war or something to that effect, right, But on 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.919 a number of the different fish databases that I was 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.960 looking at, yeah, sometimes they'll say herbivore, sometimes they'll say 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.159 herbivore algivore, and then sometimes there's kind of an omnivore 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.360 note as well. I guess there's always a margin of error, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.200 as we've discussed here, like even things like a cow, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.719 which we think of is kind of a pure herbivore. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.320 There are examples, as we've discussed on the show in 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.160 the past, where they have been observed to if meat 0:18:58.200 --> 0:18:59.920 is available, they might eat set meat. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.720 But it is true that in the cases where parrotfish 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:07.120 are eating animals, they're not generally like chasing after other 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.520 fish and eating them or something. I don't know if 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.280 that might happen in some particular case, but that's not 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.400 generally what parrotfish do. They're mostly going to be eating algae, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:21.160 and then if they're eating animals, they're like marine invertebrate animals. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.359 Yeah. So I mean we can, I think basically say 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:29.719 that ancient people were correct in this judgment. Now, and 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.639 I guess maybe it made the story at the dinner 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.600 table a little more interesting. They're like, this is the 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.160 cow of the sea, that sort of thing. Now, the 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.880 third attribute that Kuvia mentions is quote because it had 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.320 the faculty of producing a sound. Now, perhaps I'm not 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.919 completely understanding Kuvier's point here, but I guess this is 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.760 referring to that constant chewing sound, that constant grazing sound 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.679 that one hears if your head is below water with 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.040 the fish. And again, this is not something that I 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.320 would think actually impacts one's enjoyment of dinner. But again, 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:04.600 I guess they liked a good story. 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.520 You know, sometimes people they say they want their steak 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.000 rare by saying I want it still mooing. It's a 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.439 kind of a gruesome way to ask for it, But 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.520 people do say that. Can you say that, like, I 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.960 want my parrotfish steak rare, I want it still scraping. 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.359 I guess. So the fourth attribute that he mentions is 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.240 quote for its salacious propensities numbers being taken by means 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.320 of a female attached to a string. This, I guess 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.480 alluding to a supposed method of catching them. And I 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.919 suppose the Romans just like randy food, though I'm not 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.680 sure it was actually considered an afrodisiac, because I didn't 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.320 see it listed in another source I was looking at 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.719 that had to do with various foods of the Romans 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:45.240 did believe were aphrodisiacs. 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:46.320 Uh huh okay. 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.240 And then, fifthly for its quote remarkable sagacity and affording 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.760 assistance to another when taken in the net. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:56.920 Huh Now what would that mean? 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.320 So this is referring to something that is that that 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.320 pops up in various old sources as well, and again 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:12.720 continues to persist for centuries. May be particularly referring to 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:17.159 a passage in Ovid. Ovid has the following passage quote, 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.080 The scaris is caught by a stratagem beneath the waves, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.399 and at length dreads the bait. Fraught with treachery, it 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.520 dares not strike the osres. This refers to a reed 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:32.359 basket with an effort of its head, but turning away 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.680 as it loosens the twigs with frequent blows of its tail, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.680 it makes its passage and escapes safely into the deep. Moreover, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:44.200 if perchance any kind scars swimming behind sees it struggling 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.639 with the osures he takes hold of its tail in 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:51.600 his mouth and it is thus turned away and so 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:53.960 it makes its escape. 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:55.520 So, okay, we have. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.640 This idea that these fish, these parrotfish are are essentially 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.119 I don't think you social would be the term, but 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.760 they are. They help each other out. They're capable of 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.240 some form of altruism where if they see another one 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.080 of their kind stuck in one of these wicker basket traps, 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:17.120 they will try and help them out. 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:18.640 Huh. 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.879 And so this idea ends up sticking around for against 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:26.119 centuries and centuries. The idea that the scarce or parrotfish 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.360 is not only a cud chewing herbivore of the sea, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.640 but also a friendly fish that looks out for it's fellows. 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.159 Well, that's fascinating, But I wonder what would this belief 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:39.120 about their friendly behavior be based on. So the idea 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.840 is they help each other avoid traps or save each 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.439 other from traps. Is there any modern research on this? 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.000 So the main source I found on this, and this 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.679 is where I got turned onto the idea, was the 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.440