WEBVTT - Part One: The Jane Collective: Direct Action Abortion Access Works 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:04.840 Hi, Margaret, here with Samantha today's guest, recording a new 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.760 introduction to this episode because a lot has happened since 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.800 we recorded it only a couple of weeks ago. Normally, 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.799 this is a history podcast in the way that our 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.480 subjects tying to current events is left up to the 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.320 listeners imagination. But this is kind of an exceptional moment 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.800 because when we recorded this episode, which is about abortion 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.560 access and direct action abortion access, specifically the Jain collective. Well, 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:27.920 I guess you all saw that when you saw the 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.520 title of the episode when you download it. The we 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.960 we kind of joke about, I think during the course 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.479 of recording about not joke what we say, Well, the 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.720 overturning of Roe v. Wade is a potential threat. Um, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.360 And since then we've obviously all seen that there's a 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.720 leaked document that says, well, it's not a potential threat, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.159 is a and almost certainty that is happening. The Supreme 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.280 Court intends to overthrow Roe v. Wade. Um, Samantha, do 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.000 you have a better overview than that? So here is 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.440 what we have been able to read and what we 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.560 know the end this late document, they have already voted 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.240 to overturn roe v. Wade, and they did it through 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.400 the Supreme Court case of Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.720 which is based out of Mississippi, which also is a 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.200 trigger state. And if you don't know what trigger state is, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.520 it means they are ready to go the minute Roe v. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.000 Wade is overturned, that there will be an immediate ban 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.840 on abortion the second it happens. So they are called 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.280 the trigger states. And there are several will mention that 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.600 in a minute um and Mississippi is one of those. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.480 So in this brief that we read from Judge Alito, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:39.920 who is the one that has written this up, it 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:44.040 is ninety eight pages long, with like forty something pages 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.800 of an appendix to talk about his argument about why 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.520 Roe v. Wade should be overturned. And he begins his statement, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.360 and I think it's something that we need to talk 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.520 about because the language in itself is going to be 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.960 repeated throughout. I'm not gonna read it, I swear to God, 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.280 I'm not. I cried. I screamed at the computer when 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.760 I was reading this and dissecting it, and I want 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:06.080 to vomit as we are talking about it. But in it, 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.480 he writes, uh, Yeah. He begins the statement with talking 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.200 about how divisive this issue is and as a profound 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.520 moral issue. So he is allowing this conversation to take 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.640 into a whole load of feelings and automatically place what 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.800 he feels his morality and his own morality onto this. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.800 So that's how it begins. Um. And then he talks 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.240 about the fact that the Constitution and we hold that 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.040 Row and Casey, which is the Casey versus Planned Parenthood 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.200 which happened in the nineties that helped keep up with 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.959 the pro v wade um that it must be overruled. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.320 The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.600 right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including the 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.680 one on which the defenders of Row and Casey now 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.600 chiefly rely, the due process clause of the fourteenth Amendment. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.919 So in that clause, just for people. I have a 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.160 feeling that so many people, the people listening to this 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:00.840 are so smart to me, like, would you shut up 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.320 and move on? But just in case, just in case, 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.200 is that privacy, the right to privacy which is not 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.799 necessarily mentioned, but it is based in this And they 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.040 took that language and said, yes, this is about privacy. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.880 So that's very important, as we know, because it goes 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.920 to a flew of other unconstitutional constitutional things. So he 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.480 talks about that, and that he continues on that provision 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.400 has been held to guarantee some rights that are not 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.280 mentioned in the Constitution, but many such must be quote 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:35.000 deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition and implicitly 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.000 in the concept of ordered liberty. So ordered liberty as 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.920 well as nation's history is going to be all throughout 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.240 this brief. His whole stance is that because it was 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.320 never mentioned in the Constitution, that it was never ever 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.920 a constitutional thing and should not be allowed as a 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.960 constitutional thing, and that it wasn't even mentioned to be 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.160 a right until nineteen seventy three. And because of that, 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.240 this is not a constitutional issue. And the other part 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.280 to this is that ordered liberty. So when we talk 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.400 about ordered liberty, this is when he is saying that 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.920 he and a certain amount of people have the right 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.520 to tell you what your liberties are, and they get 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.560 to tell you what is orderly. So this is why 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.960 we're talking about how this is going to overturn it 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.360 because he's able to make this a state's right thing, 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.040 in which he said that's how it's always been, that's 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.960 how it's always should be. Roe v. Wade overstepped because 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.119 they took something out of context from an eighteen sixty 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:42.960 idea of this constitutional conversation. So where we are today, Yes, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.440 there's back and forth right now about it's not that 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.200 big of a deal because the states can govern. It's 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:57.159 not an outright ban technically, Um, what we we're talking 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.279 about earlier, what I was talking about earlier with the 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:08.200 trigger state, the states are Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.560 North Dakota, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Um. And even though 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.200 in my state of Georgia, they don't necessarily have a 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.160 trigger law, yet, what they have done is come at 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.719 the abortion clinics and abortion facilities, um, telling them go 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.400 ahead and get ready. And so a lot of the 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.720 clinics have stopped taking appointments and canceled appointments at this 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.640 point in time. So it's very very dangerous. And where 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.839 we are, even though it's not necessarily a trigger state, 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.760 those who are sitting in most likely more liberal left 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.240 leaning are quote unquote okay, Um, it is those who 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.159 are what would be the red states that are could 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.720 be heavily heavily affected. Yeah, and what people I think 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.080 often forget when they're like sitting comfortably in their blue 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.719 states or whatever, is that, you know, the margins that 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.360 we're talking about. The difference between the red state and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.479 blue state is actually not incredibly dramatic. It's not like 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.960 the red state are all like you people who want 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.480 to get rid of this or something like that it 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.400 might be or even well, I guess actually abortion itself, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.880 what is it like, Americans? You want to keep it? 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.760 And in the state of Georgia as well. So even 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.760 though people think of us as just like the you know, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.480 silly red state, that we proved them wrong in the 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:25.320 last few elections. And I know this. I am with 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.560 with everyone when I say this government is bullshit and 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.200 there's some things to be so many things changed, and 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.760 I am frustrated to the core because nothing like some 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.360 things are better and this is better than it was. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.320 But at the same time, what happened in really really 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.200 fucked up everything else, and what we are seeing is 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.400 the detriment of that. However, it's not a fixal I 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.960 understand this, but what we're saying is in the state 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.599 of Georgia, the majority of the voters, who are typically 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.279 women of color and people of color, are all about 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.359 our current senators and those who are pushing to that point. 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.400 But jerry mandering has made it almost impossible, as well 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.520 as voter suppression UM to get to move and push 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.120 it to the right direction. Nearly, I do say nearly, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.920 And it's frustrating because yes, we are going to be affective, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.360 even though Georgia is not a trigger state as we 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.520 were talking about earlier. Obviously he's already had he being governor, 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.480 Kemp has already put in the sixth week ban and 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.120 just kind of sitting in a court right now and 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.760 if the things change is over yeah, well, and honestly, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.040 the I mean, besides the fact that we have an 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.520 unelected shadow council that makes all the decisions about what 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.200 happens with our bodies. Really the point of this episode 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.280 that you all are about to listen to UM is 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.880 about direct action abortion access and how even when the 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.880 law is not on your side, this is still going 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.480 to happen, and how can we make it happen as 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.280 well as possible, as safely as possible. There's also, unfortunately, 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.720 other effects that could happen beyond just this. I was 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.360 talking to my my lawyer, the amazing Moira Meltzer Cohen, 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.560 who said that we need to be prepared for all 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.000 of the pannumbra cases, which are cases that put forth 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.720 the idea that um that constitutional due process implies the 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.960 right to privacy. This was called the pannumbra basically during 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.040 Griswold versus Connecticut, which is the case that legalized birth control, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.440 and so basically saying that they had a pannumbra, a 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:26.240 sort of shadow that implied rights to privacy, and lawyers 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.440 on both sides have been arguing that this is a 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.559 terrible and flimsy legal standing for a very long time. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.280 But other things that rely on that include, as I mentioned, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.400 birth control, but also gay sex or really any sex 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.320 that isn't for procreation could theoretically be criminalized once again. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:47.480 And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna link 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.920 to a lot of resources in the show notes encourage 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.600 people to to look into things, look into ways to contribute, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.080 look into ways to if if you have your own needs, um, 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.000 how you can meet those directly if you or how 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.720 help other people meet their needs directly through lots of 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.600 different ways. And for those who are in the point, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.720 I know people are filling a time crunch because there 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.720 is a time crunch. Abortion is still legal and accessible. Uh. 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.800 The home abortion pill is FDA proved to be sent 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.120 by mail, So if you need to do that, do that. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.040 That is still accessible and it's still around. And we 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.719 do see organizations that are coming through kind of like 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.280 the jan Collective did UM on a better, bigger level, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.560 which I love every bit of that. That's kind of 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.480 that silver lining. And again, yeah, things that we'd see 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.800 such as birth control, we are seeing things in play. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.880 Missouri and Louisiana has decided to put in a clause 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.440 in their trigger loss that includes i u d s 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.920 being illegal, So that means someone who has an i 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:52.040 U D which has become very effective, uh maybe prosecuted um. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.400 As well as the fact that those who are going 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.760 through things like topic pregnancy, which is when again I 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.800 think we talked about it later, it gets uh, the 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.360 egg is the fertilized egg is stuck in your Phillipian 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.840 two first and kills a person can kill, a person 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.720 damaged severrely. This will be if you try to extract 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.839 that that will be considered abortion as well. So this 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.880 is why these laws are so important that we pay 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.280 tidgion to it. Again, that privacy clause. That's what they're 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:20.720 coming after, and that includes gay marriage, that includes consensual 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.640 adults sex, that includes so much more um. And that's 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.760 why this is so damn scary. Yeah, and we'll leave 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.439 it to the listeners imagination about the methods that might 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.920 be necessary when the democratic process has failed. But one 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.560 thing also will say is that I love this episode 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.440 that you're all about to hear, but don't listen to 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:48.440 it to determine how to self manage abortions. Look elsewhere 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.920 for information about how to self manage abortions. Medicated abortions 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.600 are readily available, at least at the moment, and are 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.640 substantially better than what is available and what was available 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.880 to the heroes of today's episode. So what can people do? 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.720 Like if people have if people want to donate, what 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.280 would you be? What would you suggest? So I don't 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.560 want to give you specific organizations because it affects different 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.920 people different in different places. But one of the things 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.800 I would say is planned parenthood is not necessarily where 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.480 you should donate, Maybe start looking at specific clinics and 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.120 funds that you are appreciative of or think that they 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.120 can do a good job. Research who you're donating to. Also, 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.000 if you're in a safe state, as we said, and 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.599 I'm going to call the safe states, I don't know 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.320 if that's what they're called, We're just gonna quote it, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.480 like in one of the states where the government is 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.960 allowing and talking about, Yeah, abortion, it should be part 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.440 of health care. Then maybe look to the trigger states 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.920 that we mentioned earlier and helped donate to those states 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.080 because they are in deep danger as I said before, 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.560 about losing everything very quickly, very fast. Yeah, And the 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.160 people I've been talking to and asking for advice about 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.680 where to put people put your energy in terms of 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.719 organizations to support, have also suggested that abortion funds are 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.640 specifically the place to go. And then also one other 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.000 one that again my my lawyer friend recommended, is called 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.120 the repro Legal Defense Fund, which is a fund that 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.800 supports people who are investigated, arrested, or prosecuted for self 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.000 managed abortion or for helping end their own or someone 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.400 else's pregnancy. And so that is a thing that legal 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.400 defense is going to have to become part of all 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.240 of this as well, unfortunately. Absolute um. And if you 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.800 kind of want to know what is impacted and how 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.320 you can impact better, you can also go to the 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.200 National Network of Abortion Funds and they kind of have 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.360 a list of who is in need of services and 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.079 what type of services are being used for what funds, 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:37.959 and that could give you a kind of at least 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.400 an audited sheet of who you're giving to what they're doing. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:47.400 And here's the episode. Hello and welcome to Cool People 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.200 Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that needs no introduction. No, no, Margaret, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.960 it needs an introduction. Okay, Welcome to Cool People Who 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.000 Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that apparently needs an introduction. 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.240 Every week I'm going to bring you a new story 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.160 of cool people who did cool stuff, thus the title. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.800 I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. And this week I have 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.480 on Samantha McVeigh, who is the host of the also 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.040 stuff related podcast stuff Mom Never told you. Samantha, How 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.400 are you doing good? Thank you for having me on 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.079 the show. And ya, welcome to the fam and all 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.040 the things. So excited to have you as a part 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:28.640 of our network family. Yeah, I'm really excited. Okay, So um, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.319 I've also Sophie on the call. Sophie is the producer. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.720 How are you doing Superheroes? Sophie over here doing doing, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.720 I'm doing Okay. That is that is the that is 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:47.760 the theme of whatever year it is we're doing. It's 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.120 not real. It does not exist, especially since what we're 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.000 recording will make no sense to people who are listening 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.400 to it twenty five years from now. Gosh, yeah, I 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.280 hope so, but so Meantha, I'm wondering, how do you 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.520 feel about reproductive rights? Would you say that overall your 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.600 pro or anti you deciding what happens with your body? 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.800 You know, as someone who does have a uterus and 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.120 feels the fact that I am a pretty smart and 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.760 capable woman, um that I should be allowed to have 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.480 my choices, and that being dictated by sis white men 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.320 telling me that they need control over my body because 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.880 they're afraid of the vagina in general and uterus and 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.400 the power of the uterus. I'm muna say I'm pro 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.360 everything about it, and let's go ahead and say, Nabra 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:39.040 get out of it. Well, not a long winded answer, no, no, 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.280 this is great. It would be a very different in 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.760 short podcast if your answer was wildly different from that. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.640 I have really sure non because I was like Margaret, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.600 I have this really great person that I want to 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:55.680 have on for this specific topic comes on and it's like, oh, yes, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.520 you know how I feel. I used to. Can I 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:05.120 tell you this. I grew up in a very conservative 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.880 For the listeners who are familiar with me, I grew 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.600 up in a very conservative uh town. My parents are white. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.760 I'm adopted, and they're very conservative people who um have 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:23.960 always voted on moralities, including anti choice a lifestyle. And 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.920 for the longest time I was told because I was adopted, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.760 I should be anti choice or I wouldn't have existed. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.760 This whole like guilt trip onto me about that, making 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.240 it seem like I was in the wrong for say, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.960 but wait, the biggest conversation is you're telling me that 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.920 you really feel like you can't trust me as a 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.560 as an adult, as a person, as an individual to 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.840 make my own choices in life, um and that it 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.080 needed to be dictated by a government. But nothing else does. Okay, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:52.680 But it took me a long time to get out 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.600 of that headspin. Because you know, you want to acclimate 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.560 and be a be a part of whatever your society 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:01.640 or can unity you're in doing me a while to 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.800 figure out, Oh god, that's growth, what is happening, you know, 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.560 and what kind of control had it on there? So honestly, 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.920 if you'd asked me that twenty years ago, we would 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:15.400 have had a different conversation. Okay, that I mean, that's 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:16.960 fair and like it. You know, there's a lot of 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.520 indoctrination that we all feel. I'm almost sort of lucky 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.960 and that like I was always just like such one 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.400 of the bad kids that I was pretty young when 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.680 like my friends started having abortions. Um, and I'm so 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.720 grateful that they had that opportunity because a lot of 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.239 them were able to like get out of the situations 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.520 they were in, you know, um, because they had that access. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:44.120 But well, today's heroes have come to similar conclusions that 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.640 we have about being pro people deciding what to do 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.960 with their own bodies and uh, because okay, people were 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:53.960 gonn talk about fucking cool And I'm gonna be talking 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.600 about direct action abortion access and in particular, we're going 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.880 to focus on one crew of women out of Chicago, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:07.000 the Notorious Jane Collective. Oh this is one of my favorites. 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.320 Come on, I'm ready, let's go and so I think 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.280 actually the podcast that you're on, I don't think you're 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.840 the host of this particular episode, but the podcast you 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.280 you run actually didn't interview with the founder of Jane 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.560 Heather Booth. Um, I just want to acknowledge that. And 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.040 so it was it was freaking cool. And I listened 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.040 to that while I was getting ready for this one 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:26.720 and before I start getting too deep into it. So 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.920 I'm going to talk about abortion, right and so I'm 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.480 going to be talking about how it is and isn't 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.680 a woman's issue in the modern context. Um, I want 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.800 to acknowledge upfront that abortion is not just a woman's issue. 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.040 A plenty of people who are not women can get pregnant. 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.000 It might not want to be whether that's some trans men, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.439 some non binary people, and some intersex people who can 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.440 all get pregnant. Uh, And I will I will say 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.960 that one day it's as likely as not that some 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.560 trans woman is going to get pregnant. And there's this 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.520 meme floating around that I really like, is that what 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.240 will really drive the right wing into a rage is 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.080 and when the first Trands woman gets pregnant. It's when 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:03.960 the first Trands woman chooses to have an abortion. But 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.879 but I also will say that, um, so it's not 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.439 just a women's issue, but it is also a women's 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.159 issue as well, and I don't want to cut that 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.800 out of the conversation either. And I spent a while 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.440 trying to figure out to phrase all this right because 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.560 it's a kind of a moving target to understand how 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.200 we talk about this stuff. The So I would say 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.680 that the history of the limitation of abortion access is 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.800 entirely entangled with the history of misogyny and with controlling 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.800 women's bodies and denying us agency. And there's there's plenty 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.959 of women who can't get pregnant, whether it's because of age, surgeries, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.440 hormone shifts, the way we were born. But something doesn't 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.240 need to affect like every single woman to be a 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.720 woman's issue, to be something that affects all of us, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:46.320 because patriarchal society wanting to control women's bodies doesn't stop 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.239 with the women who can get pregnant, right, Um, they 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.880 want to control everybody. So I guess what I want 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.960 to say to to anyone's listening, um, And just to 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.280 kind of provide the context that I'm coming from, is 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.040 that when I'm talking about abortion access. I'm sure I 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.480 talk about it from both of these angles at once. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.560 U two sort of intersecting axes of oppression is people 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.760 with the ability to give birth and people who are women, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.280 and which is very often a intersection, right, but not always. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.560 And then of course we're talking about ship that happened 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.040 like fifty years ago, right, And so a lot of 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:18.960 the existing language about the people that we're going to 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.600 be talking about will be referring to people as women 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.159 and will be approaching it primarily from this lens of 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.359 a women's issue. And I'm trying to well, I'm going 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.359 to try and be more directly inclusive throughout. I'm not 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.720 trying to cast judgment on these people who framed it 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.520 in the ways that they understood it is the best 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:40.440 way to frame it. Um. So that's my disclaimer. It's 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.240 been more time on than like the rest of the 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.480 that's not true. You have to do though, Yeah, okay, 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.400 So abortion and legality, right, Abortion has been a contentious 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.960 issue since forever, and and sometimes it's about morality, like 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.199 like on an individual level, a lot of people against 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.560 abortion because of what they consider morality, and some religious 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.480 groups teach that life begins at conception or at the quickening, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:05.720 which is when a pregnant person can first feel the 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.119 baby moving um, which is usually about halfway through the pregnancy. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.879 It happens I guess a couple of weeks earlier in pregnancies, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.840 after the first pregnancy that a person has. Other people 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.159 claim that life begins at viability, which is when the 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.440 fetus would be able to survive outside the womb, which 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.800 is usually around seven months, and then other religions and 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.879 other concepts and faiths teach that life begins at birth, 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.040 and it isn't as like simple as like this religion 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.280 believes this. This religion believes that there's not like one 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.840 answer about like how Christianity believes or whatever. Right, It's 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.160 all different and changing at different times. I also, frankly 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.600 don't care on some level like um, like whether or 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.760 not I am or I'm not a religious person, Like 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.680 I have no interest in letting religion dictate the laws 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.639 of society. So there's this case that a lot of 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.159 people make that the restriction of abortion has nothing to 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.880 do with morality or religion, but instead about the control 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.600 of bodies, right of women's bodies and and women's bodies. 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.800 And then like by extension all of the people who 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.000 are in the periphery of womanhood and I don't know, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.119 it's like and sometimes they're really even open about this 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.720 desire where it's like literally just about controlling reproduction. A 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.600 lot of countries they say that motherhood is like patriotic, right, 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.680 because really, at the end of the day, it's about this, like, well, 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.080 we want more babies to throw into the you know, 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:28.200 gristmill of labor and war and ship. If you're looking 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.119 at the Q and on level of U of the 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.040