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Speaker 1: Hi, Margaret, here with Samantha today's guest, recording a new

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Speaker 1: introduction to this episode because a lot has happened since

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Speaker 1: we recorded it only a couple of weeks ago. Normally,

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Speaker 1: this is a history podcast in the way that our

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Speaker 1: subjects tying to current events is left up to the

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Speaker 1: listeners imagination. But this is kind of an exceptional moment

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Speaker 1: because when we recorded this episode, which is about abortion

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Speaker 1: access and direct action abortion access, specifically the Jain collective. Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess you all saw that when you saw the

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Speaker 1: title of the episode when you download it. The we

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Speaker 1: we kind of joke about, I think during the course

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Speaker 1: of recording about not joke what we say, Well, the

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Speaker 1: overturning of Roe v. Wade is a potential threat. Um,

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Speaker 1: And since then we've obviously all seen that there's a

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Speaker 1: leaked document that says, well, it's not a potential threat,

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Speaker 1: is a and almost certainty that is happening. The Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court intends to overthrow Roe v. Wade. Um, Samantha, do

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Speaker 1: you have a better overview than that? So here is

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Speaker 1: what we have been able to read and what we

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Speaker 1: know the end this late document, they have already voted

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Speaker 1: to overturn roe v. Wade, and they did it through

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court case of Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization,

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Speaker 1: which is based out of Mississippi, which also is a

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Speaker 1: trigger state. And if you don't know what trigger state is,

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Speaker 1: it means they are ready to go the minute Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade is overturned, that there will be an immediate ban

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Speaker 1: on abortion the second it happens. So they are called

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Speaker 1: the trigger states. And there are several will mention that

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Speaker 1: in a minute um and Mississippi is one of those.

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Speaker 1: So in this brief that we read from Judge Alito,

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Speaker 1: who is the one that has written this up, it

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Speaker 1: is ninety eight pages long, with like forty something pages

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Speaker 1: of an appendix to talk about his argument about why

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Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade should be overturned. And he begins his statement,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's something that we need to talk

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Speaker 1: about because the language in itself is going to be

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Speaker 1: repeated throughout. I'm not gonna read it, I swear to God,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I cried. I screamed at the computer when

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Speaker 1: I was reading this and dissecting it, and I want

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Speaker 1: to vomit as we are talking about it. But in it,

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Speaker 1: he writes, uh, Yeah. He begins the statement with talking

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Speaker 1: about how divisive this issue is and as a profound

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Speaker 1: moral issue. So he is allowing this conversation to take

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Speaker 1: into a whole load of feelings and automatically place what

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Speaker 1: he feels his morality and his own morality onto this.

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Speaker 1: So that's how it begins. Um. And then he talks

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Speaker 1: about the fact that the Constitution and we hold that

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Speaker 1: Row and Casey, which is the Casey versus Planned Parenthood

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Speaker 1: which happened in the nineties that helped keep up with

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Speaker 1: the pro v wade um that it must be overruled.

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Speaker 1: The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such

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Speaker 1: right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including the

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Speaker 1: one on which the defenders of Row and Casey now

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Speaker 1: chiefly rely, the due process clause of the fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 1: So in that clause, just for people. I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling that so many people, the people listening to this

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Speaker 1: are so smart to me, like, would you shut up

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Speaker 1: and move on? But just in case, just in case,

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Speaker 1: is that privacy, the right to privacy which is not

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Speaker 1: necessarily mentioned, but it is based in this And they

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Speaker 1: took that language and said, yes, this is about privacy.

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Speaker 1: So that's very important, as we know, because it goes

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Speaker 1: to a flew of other unconstitutional constitutional things. So he

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Speaker 1: talks about that, and that he continues on that provision

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Speaker 1: has been held to guarantee some rights that are not

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the Constitution, but many such must be quote

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Speaker 1: deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition and implicitly

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Speaker 1: in the concept of ordered liberty. So ordered liberty as

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Speaker 1: well as nation's history is going to be all throughout

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Speaker 1: this brief. His whole stance is that because it was

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Speaker 1: never mentioned in the Constitution, that it was never ever

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Speaker 1: a constitutional thing and should not be allowed as a

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Speaker 1: constitutional thing, and that it wasn't even mentioned to be

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Speaker 1: a right until nineteen seventy three. And because of that,

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Speaker 1: this is not a constitutional issue. And the other part

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Speaker 1: to this is that ordered liberty. So when we talk

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Speaker 1: about ordered liberty, this is when he is saying that

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Speaker 1: he and a certain amount of people have the right

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Speaker 1: to tell you what your liberties are, and they get

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Speaker 1: to tell you what is orderly. So this is why

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Speaker 1: we're talking about how this is going to overturn it

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Speaker 1: because he's able to make this a state's right thing,

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Speaker 1: in which he said that's how it's always been, that's

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Speaker 1: how it's always should be. Roe v. Wade overstepped because

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Speaker 1: they took something out of context from an eighteen sixty

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Speaker 1: idea of this constitutional conversation. So where we are today, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's back and forth right now about it's not that

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Speaker 1: big of a deal because the states can govern. It's

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Speaker 1: not an outright ban technically, Um, what we we're talking

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Speaker 1: about earlier, what I was talking about earlier with the

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Speaker 1: trigger state, the states are Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: North Dakota, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. Um. And even though

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Speaker 1: in my state of Georgia, they don't necessarily have a

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Speaker 1: trigger law, yet, what they have done is come at

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Speaker 1: the abortion clinics and abortion facilities, um, telling them go

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Speaker 1: ahead and get ready. And so a lot of the

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Speaker 1: clinics have stopped taking appointments and canceled appointments at this

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Speaker 1: point in time. So it's very very dangerous. And where

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Speaker 1: we are, even though it's not necessarily a trigger state,

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Speaker 1: those who are sitting in most likely more liberal left

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Speaker 1: leaning are quote unquote okay, Um, it is those who

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Speaker 1: are what would be the red states that are could

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Speaker 1: be heavily heavily affected. Yeah, and what people I think

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Speaker 1: often forget when they're like sitting comfortably in their blue

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Speaker 1: states or whatever, is that, you know, the margins that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. The difference between the red state and

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Speaker 1: blue state is actually not incredibly dramatic. It's not like

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Speaker 1: the red state are all like you people who want

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Speaker 1: to get rid of this or something like that it

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Speaker 1: might be or even well, I guess actually abortion itself,

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Speaker 1: what is it like, Americans? You want to keep it?

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Speaker 1: And in the state of Georgia as well. So even

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Speaker 1: though people think of us as just like the you know,

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Speaker 1: silly red state, that we proved them wrong in the

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Speaker 1: last few elections. And I know this. I am with

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Speaker 1: with everyone when I say this government is bullshit and

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Speaker 1: there's some things to be so many things changed, and

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Speaker 1: I am frustrated to the core because nothing like some

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Speaker 1: things are better and this is better than it was.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, what happened in really really

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Speaker 1: fucked up everything else, and what we are seeing is

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Speaker 1: the detriment of that. However, it's not a fixal I

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Speaker 1: understand this, but what we're saying is in the state

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Speaker 1: of Georgia, the majority of the voters, who are typically

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Speaker 1: women of color and people of color, are all about

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Speaker 1: our current senators and those who are pushing to that point.

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Speaker 1: But jerry mandering has made it almost impossible, as well

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Speaker 1: as voter suppression UM to get to move and push

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Speaker 1: it to the right direction. Nearly, I do say nearly,

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Speaker 1: And it's frustrating because yes, we are going to be affective,

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Speaker 1: even though Georgia is not a trigger state as we

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Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. Obviously he's already had he being governor,

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Speaker 1: Kemp has already put in the sixth week ban and

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Speaker 1: just kind of sitting in a court right now and

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Speaker 1: if the things change is over yeah, well, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: the I mean, besides the fact that we have an

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Speaker 1: unelected shadow council that makes all the decisions about what

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Speaker 1: happens with our bodies. Really the point of this episode

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Speaker 1: that you all are about to listen to UM is

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Speaker 1: about direct action abortion access and how even when the

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Speaker 1: law is not on your side, this is still going

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Speaker 1: to happen, and how can we make it happen as

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Speaker 1: well as possible, as safely as possible. There's also, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: other effects that could happen beyond just this. I was

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Speaker 1: talking to my my lawyer, the amazing Moira Meltzer Cohen,

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Speaker 1: who said that we need to be prepared for all

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Speaker 1: of the pannumbra cases, which are cases that put forth

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Speaker 1: the idea that um that constitutional due process implies the

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Speaker 1: right to privacy. This was called the pannumbra basically during

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Speaker 1: Griswold versus Connecticut, which is the case that legalized birth control,

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Speaker 1: and so basically saying that they had a pannumbra, a

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Speaker 1: sort of shadow that implied rights to privacy, and lawyers

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Speaker 1: on both sides have been arguing that this is a

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Speaker 1: terrible and flimsy legal standing for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: But other things that rely on that include, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: birth control, but also gay sex or really any sex

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Speaker 1: that isn't for procreation could theoretically be criminalized once again.

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Speaker 1: And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna link

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Speaker 1: to a lot of resources in the show notes encourage

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Speaker 1: people to to look into things, look into ways to contribute,

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Speaker 1: look into ways to if if you have your own needs, um,

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Speaker 1: how you can meet those directly if you or how

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Speaker 1: help other people meet their needs directly through lots of

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Speaker 1: different ways. And for those who are in the point,

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Speaker 1: I know people are filling a time crunch because there

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Speaker 1: is a time crunch. Abortion is still legal and accessible. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The home abortion pill is FDA proved to be sent

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Speaker 1: by mail, So if you need to do that, do that.

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Speaker 1: That is still accessible and it's still around. And we

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Speaker 1: do see organizations that are coming through kind of like

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Speaker 1: the jan Collective did UM on a better, bigger level,

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Speaker 1: which I love every bit of that. That's kind of

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Speaker 1: that silver lining. And again, yeah, things that we'd see

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Speaker 1: such as birth control, we are seeing things in play.

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Speaker 1: Missouri and Louisiana has decided to put in a clause

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Speaker 1: in their trigger loss that includes i u d s

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Speaker 1: being illegal, So that means someone who has an i

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Speaker 1: U D which has become very effective, uh maybe prosecuted um.

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Speaker 1: As well as the fact that those who are going

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Speaker 1: through things like topic pregnancy, which is when again I

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Speaker 1: think we talked about it later, it gets uh, the

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Speaker 1: egg is the fertilized egg is stuck in your Phillipian

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Speaker 1: two first and kills a person can kill, a person

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Speaker 1: damaged severrely. This will be if you try to extract

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Speaker 1: that that will be considered abortion as well. So this

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Speaker 1: is why these laws are so important that we pay

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Speaker 1: tidgion to it. Again, that privacy clause. That's what they're

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Speaker 1: coming after, and that includes gay marriage, that includes consensual

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Speaker 1: adults sex, that includes so much more um. And that's

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Speaker 1: why this is so damn scary. Yeah, and we'll leave

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Speaker 1: it to the listeners imagination about the methods that might

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Speaker 1: be necessary when the democratic process has failed. But one

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Speaker 1: thing also will say is that I love this episode

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Speaker 1: that you're all about to hear, but don't listen to

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Speaker 1: it to determine how to self manage abortions. Look elsewhere

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Speaker 1: for information about how to self manage abortions. Medicated abortions

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Speaker 1: are readily available, at least at the moment, and are

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Speaker 1: substantially better than what is available and what was available

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Speaker 1: to the heroes of today's episode. So what can people do?

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Speaker 1: Like if people have if people want to donate, what

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Speaker 1: would you be? What would you suggest? So I don't

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Speaker 1: want to give you specific organizations because it affects different

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Speaker 1: people different in different places. But one of the things

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Speaker 1: I would say is planned parenthood is not necessarily where

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Speaker 1: you should donate, Maybe start looking at specific clinics and

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Speaker 1: funds that you are appreciative of or think that they

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Speaker 1: can do a good job. Research who you're donating to. Also,

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Speaker 1: if you're in a safe state, as we said, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call the safe states, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's what they're called, We're just gonna quote it,

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Speaker 1: like in one of the states where the government is

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Speaker 1: allowing and talking about, Yeah, abortion, it should be part

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Speaker 1: of health care. Then maybe look to the trigger states

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Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier and helped donate to those states

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Speaker 1: because they are in deep danger as I said before,

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Speaker 1: about losing everything very quickly, very fast. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 1: people I've been talking to and asking for advice about

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Speaker 1: where to put people put your energy in terms of

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Speaker 1: organizations to support, have also suggested that abortion funds are

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Speaker 1: specifically the place to go. And then also one other

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Speaker 1: one that again my my lawyer friend recommended, is called

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Speaker 1: the repro Legal Defense Fund, which is a fund that

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Speaker 1: supports people who are investigated, arrested, or prosecuted for self

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Speaker 1: managed abortion or for helping end their own or someone

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Speaker 1: else's pregnancy. And so that is a thing that legal

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Speaker 1: defense is going to have to become part of all

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Speaker 1: of this as well, unfortunately. Absolute um. And if you

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Speaker 1: kind of want to know what is impacted and how

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Speaker 1: you can impact better, you can also go to the

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Speaker 1: National Network of Abortion Funds and they kind of have

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Speaker 1: a list of who is in need of services and

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Speaker 1: what type of services are being used for what funds,

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Speaker 1: and that could give you a kind of at least

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Speaker 1: an audited sheet of who you're giving to what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: And here's the episode. Hello and welcome to Cool People

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Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that needs no introduction. No, no, Margaret,

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Speaker 1: it needs an introduction. Okay, Welcome to Cool People Who

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Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that apparently needs an introduction.

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Speaker 1: Every week I'm going to bring you a new story

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Speaker 1: of cool people who did cool stuff, thus the title.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. And this week I have

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Speaker 1: on Samantha McVeigh, who is the host of the also

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Speaker 1: stuff related podcast stuff Mom Never told you. Samantha, How

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Speaker 1: are you doing good? Thank you for having me on

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Speaker 1: the show. And ya, welcome to the fam and all

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Speaker 1: the things. So excited to have you as a part

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Speaker 1: of our network family. Yeah, I'm really excited. Okay, So um,

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Speaker 1: I've also Sophie on the call. Sophie is the producer.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing Superheroes? Sophie over here doing doing,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing Okay. That is that is the that is

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Speaker 1: the theme of whatever year it is we're doing. It's

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Speaker 1: not real. It does not exist, especially since what we're

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Speaker 1: recording will make no sense to people who are listening

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Speaker 1: to it twenty five years from now. Gosh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: hope so, but so Meantha, I'm wondering, how do you

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Speaker 1: feel about reproductive rights? Would you say that overall your

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Speaker 1: pro or anti you deciding what happens with your body?

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Speaker 1: You know, as someone who does have a uterus and

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Speaker 1: feels the fact that I am a pretty smart and

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Speaker 1: capable woman, um that I should be allowed to have

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Speaker 1: my choices, and that being dictated by sis white men

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Speaker 1: telling me that they need control over my body because

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Speaker 1: they're afraid of the vagina in general and uterus and

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Speaker 1: the power of the uterus. I'm muna say I'm pro

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Speaker 1: everything about it, and let's go ahead and say, Nabra

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Speaker 1: get out of it. Well, not a long winded answer, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is great. It would be a very different in

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Speaker 1: short podcast if your answer was wildly different from that.

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Speaker 1: I have really sure non because I was like Margaret,

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Speaker 1: I have this really great person that I want to

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Speaker 1: have on for this specific topic comes on and it's like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: you know how I feel. I used to. Can I

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Speaker 1: tell you this. I grew up in a very conservative

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Speaker 1: For the listeners who are familiar with me, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a very conservative uh town. My parents are white.

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Speaker 1: I'm adopted, and they're very conservative people who um have

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Speaker 1: always voted on moralities, including anti choice a lifestyle. And

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Speaker 1: for the longest time I was told because I was adopted,

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Speaker 1: I should be anti choice or I wouldn't have existed.

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Speaker 1: This whole like guilt trip onto me about that, making

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Speaker 1: it seem like I was in the wrong for say,

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Speaker 1: but wait, the biggest conversation is you're telling me that

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Speaker 1: you really feel like you can't trust me as a

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Speaker 1: as an adult, as a person, as an individual to

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Speaker 1: make my own choices in life, um and that it

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Speaker 1: needed to be dictated by a government. But nothing else does. Okay,

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Speaker 1: But it took me a long time to get out

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Speaker 1: of that headspin. Because you know, you want to acclimate

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Speaker 1: and be a be a part of whatever your society

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Speaker 1: or can unity you're in doing me a while to

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Speaker 1: figure out, Oh god, that's growth, what is happening, you know,

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Speaker 1: and what kind of control had it on there? So honestly,

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Speaker 1: if you'd asked me that twenty years ago, we would

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Speaker 1: have had a different conversation. Okay, that I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: fair and like it. You know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: indoctrination that we all feel. I'm almost sort of lucky

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Speaker 1: and that like I was always just like such one

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Speaker 1: of the bad kids that I was pretty young when

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Speaker 1: like my friends started having abortions. Um, and I'm so

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Speaker 1: grateful that they had that opportunity because a lot of

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Speaker 1: them were able to like get out of the situations

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Speaker 1: they were in, you know, um, because they had that access.

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Speaker 1: But well, today's heroes have come to similar conclusions that

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Speaker 1: we have about being pro people deciding what to do

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Speaker 1: with their own bodies and uh, because okay, people were

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Speaker 1: gonn talk about fucking cool And I'm gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about direct action abortion access and in particular, we're going

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Speaker 1: to focus on one crew of women out of Chicago,

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Speaker 1: the Notorious Jane Collective. Oh this is one of my favorites.

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Speaker 1: Come on, I'm ready, let's go and so I think

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Speaker 1: actually the podcast that you're on, I don't think you're

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Speaker 1: the host of this particular episode, but the podcast you

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Speaker 1: you run actually didn't interview with the founder of Jane

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Speaker 1: Heather Booth. Um, I just want to acknowledge that. And

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Speaker 1: so it was it was freaking cool. And I listened

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Speaker 1: to that while I was getting ready for this one

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Speaker 1: and before I start getting too deep into it. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about abortion, right and so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about how it is and isn't

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Speaker 1: a woman's issue in the modern context. Um, I want

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge upfront that abortion is not just a woman's issue.

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Speaker 1: A plenty of people who are not women can get pregnant.

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Speaker 1: It might not want to be whether that's some trans men,

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Speaker 1: some non binary people, and some intersex people who can

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Speaker 1: all get pregnant. Uh, And I will I will say

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Speaker 1: that one day it's as likely as not that some

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Speaker 1: trans woman is going to get pregnant. And there's this

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Speaker 1: meme floating around that I really like, is that what

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Speaker 1: will really drive the right wing into a rage is

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Speaker 1: and when the first Trands woman gets pregnant. It's when

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Speaker 1: the first Trands woman chooses to have an abortion. But

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Speaker 1: but I also will say that, um, so it's not

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Speaker 1: just a women's issue, but it is also a women's

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Speaker 1: issue as well, and I don't want to cut that

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Speaker 1: out of the conversation either. And I spent a while

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out to phrase all this right because

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Speaker 1: it's a kind of a moving target to understand how

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Speaker 1: we talk about this stuff. The So I would say

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Speaker 1: that the history of the limitation of abortion access is

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Speaker 1: entirely entangled with the history of misogyny and with controlling

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Speaker 1: women's bodies and denying us agency. And there's there's plenty

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Speaker 1: of women who can't get pregnant, whether it's because of age, surgeries,

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Speaker 1: hormone shifts, the way we were born. But something doesn't

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Speaker 1: need to affect like every single woman to be a

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Speaker 1: woman's issue, to be something that affects all of us,

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Speaker 1: because patriarchal society wanting to control women's bodies doesn't stop

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Speaker 1: with the women who can get pregnant, right, Um, they

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Speaker 1: want to control everybody. So I guess what I want

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Speaker 1: to say to to anyone's listening, um, And just to

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Speaker 1: kind of provide the context that I'm coming from, is

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Speaker 1: that when I'm talking about abortion access. I'm sure I

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Speaker 1: talk about it from both of these angles at once.

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Speaker 1: U two sort of intersecting axes of oppression is people

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Speaker 1: with the ability to give birth and people who are women,

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Speaker 1: and which is very often a intersection, right, but not always.

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Speaker 1: And then of course we're talking about ship that happened

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Speaker 1: like fifty years ago, right, And so a lot of

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Speaker 1: the existing language about the people that we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about will be referring to people as women

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Speaker 1: and will be approaching it primarily from this lens of

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Speaker 1: a women's issue. And I'm trying to well, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try and be more directly inclusive throughout. I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to cast judgment on these people who framed it

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Speaker 1: in the ways that they understood it is the best

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Speaker 1: way to frame it. Um. So that's my disclaimer. It's

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Speaker 1: been more time on than like the rest of the

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Speaker 1: that's not true. You have to do though, Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So abortion and legality, right, Abortion has been a contentious

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Speaker 1: issue since forever, and and sometimes it's about morality, like

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Speaker 1: like on an individual level, a lot of people against

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Speaker 1: abortion because of what they consider morality, and some religious

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Speaker 1: groups teach that life begins at conception or at the quickening,

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Speaker 1: which is when a pregnant person can first feel the

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Speaker 1: baby moving um, which is usually about halfway through the pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: It happens I guess a couple of weeks earlier in pregnancies,

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Speaker 1: after the first pregnancy that a person has. Other people

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Speaker 1: claim that life begins at viability, which is when the

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Speaker 1: fetus would be able to survive outside the womb, which

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Speaker 1: is usually around seven months, and then other religions and

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Speaker 1: other concepts and faiths teach that life begins at birth,

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Speaker 1: and it isn't as like simple as like this religion

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Speaker 1: believes this. This religion believes that there's not like one

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Speaker 1: answer about like how Christianity believes or whatever. Right, It's

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Speaker 1: all different and changing at different times. I also, frankly

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Speaker 1: don't care on some level like um, like whether or

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Speaker 1: not I am or I'm not a religious person, Like

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Speaker 1: I have no interest in letting religion dictate the laws

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Speaker 1: of society. So there's this case that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people make that the restriction of abortion has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with morality or religion, but instead about the control

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Speaker 1: of bodies, right of women's bodies and and women's bodies.

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Speaker 1: And then like by extension all of the people who

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Speaker 1: are in the periphery of womanhood and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's like and sometimes they're really even open about this

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Speaker 1: desire where it's like literally just about controlling reproduction. A

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Speaker 1: lot of countries they say that motherhood is like patriotic, right,

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Speaker 1: because really, at the end of the day, it's about this, like, well,

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Speaker 1: we want more babies to throw into the you know,

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Speaker 1: gristmill of labor and war and ship. If you're looking

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Speaker 1: at the Q and on level of U of the

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Speaker 1: mom groups is an interesting fight they have and a

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Speaker 1: part of the solution, and part of that fight is

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Speaker 1: to birth their own babies, meaning like typically white children,

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Speaker 1: and making sure that that theny, it continues in this

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Speaker 1: big all fight in the Q and on war, the

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Speaker 1: whole rabbit hole in itself. I wish I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for telling me this terrible thing that's happening. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it's like it doesn't surprise me at don't no,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me at all. But I'm like, great,

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Speaker 1: of course they're doing that. God damn it. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry. No, no, no, no, I know it's there.

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Speaker 1: I will tell you. I probably shouldn't given you that

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Speaker 1: heads up is on our show on stuff, Mom've never

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Speaker 1: told you I am the pessimist. Okay, okay, post that

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Speaker 1: brings out the unfun facts, so apologies and advanced No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's perfect because I'm trying to do this, Like I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's ironic. I picked this name kill Joy and then

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Speaker 1: I like dedicate my life to try and spread revolutionary hope.

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Speaker 1: But I love that. I love that. I love that

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Speaker 1: we have this balance today. It's perfect. Unfun facts with

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Speaker 1: Samantha mcveay show Welcome. You should have a show. I

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Speaker 1: want you should be Samanthe. You need to start this up.

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Speaker 1: You're the creator of all shows. Let's do this. I'm in,

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Speaker 1: I'm in. Okay. So, the first European government to to

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Speaker 1: legalize abortion was Revolutionary Russia as far as I can research,

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Speaker 1: and in October nine they legalized abortion. And some people

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Speaker 1: will talk about how they did from a feminist point

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Speaker 1: of view. A lot of other stuff will say they

429
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: did it because, um, they were all starving and so

430
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: they just were like it's okay to not have babies

431
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: for this moment, right, Um. And I think there's a

432
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: lot of a strong case to be made for that

433
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: that they didn't actually some of them cared, some of

434
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: them didn't care. I don't know. Because they also got

435
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: rid of abortion again various points. And then they had

436
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: like huge pro natal PR campaigns, and then of course

437
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: Stalin made it illegal again because he's Stalin and he

438
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: only does bad things. Um and okay, the the law

439
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: that he passed on June six is the most Soviet

440
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: name I've ever heard, which is the Decree on the

441
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: Prohibition of Abortions, the improvement of Material Aid to women

442
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: in childbirth, the establishment of state assistants to parents of

443
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: large families, and the extension of lying in homes, nursery schools,

444
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: and kindergartens, the tight you know of criminal punishments and

445
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: the nonpayment of alimony, and on certain modifications on levorce

446
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: legislation that rolls right off a tongue. That was amazing.

447
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful. Good jobs on certain modifications in

448
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: divorce legislation, all right. I was just making sure I

449
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: got cool cool obviously. And then one of the other

450
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: times that abortion was legalized in Europe, I actually think

451
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: was really cool and not like, oh, maybe why are

452
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: they doing this? But U during the Spanish Civil War

453
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: and I guess probably nine or so, I didn't I

454
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: don't remember the actual year. And an anarchist became the

455
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: first man, the first woman minister of health and like

456
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: one of the first women ministers in government in Europe.

457
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: This is anarchist woman. Federica Montsani became the Minister of

458
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Health of the Second Spanish Republic and she legalized abortion

459
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: because it was the right thing to do. And then

460
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: Franco uh successfully invaded the special Second Spanish Republic and

461
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: it was a whole war thing that happened, and it

462
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: didn't really go very well. Um, and Spain got fascism

463
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: instead of legalized abortion. So close to getting it right, no, um,

464
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: almost like I don't don't know where to stick this.

465
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I think about a

466
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: lot when I'm talking about how like why are they

467
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: making abortion illegal? Is it morality or is it social control?

468
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: And I think that as soon as you start throwing

469
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: birth control into it too, it becomes so obvious that

470
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: it's not about moralities, about social control because all of

471
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: the same stuff that's illegalizing abortion is like, you know,

472
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to do a whole episode about the birth

473
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: control fight at some point. But um, it's just this

474
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: whole parallel thing where basically they're like, right, you shouldn't

475
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: have sex, that doesn't make babies, that's wrong. It's because

476
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: they just which is by the way, a new headline

477
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: that I've seen all of a sudden coming back around

478
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: from the right wing. Um conversation is the same narrative

479
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: of you shouldn't have sex, it's from making children, you

480
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: can't handle having children, you shouldn't be having sex like

481
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: this new I've seen it trending and I was like,

482
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: what is happening? Are we bringing that back again? Is

483
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: this really the nine eight, eight, the seventies sixties however,

484
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: which by the way, abortion didn't happen until like the

485
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties in the US, Like why are we? Why

486
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: are we back here? But yeah, it's I agree with you,

487
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: this whole level of like when we really look at it, obviously,

488
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: that's the conversation we've had about is it really your

489
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: pro life? Are you just anti choice? Like that's the conversation. Totally, No,

490
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: totally yeah, because yeah, you're literally anti people choosing to

491
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: have like you know, saying consensual whatever the phrasing is.

492
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: The safe sex that's consentual and happy and all that ship.

493
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: But then, okay, so when I'm I'm doing all this

494
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: like preface stuff, I'm gonna get to Jane soon. Um,

495
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: a lot of feminists, including today's heroes, they weren't necessarily

496
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: even just fighting for the legalization of abortion. One of

497
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: the cases that I want to make, because it kept

498
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: coming up as I was researching these people and a

499
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: lot of the other abortionists at the time, is especially

500
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: the feminist and the women involved, was that they were

501
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: fighting for the de medicalization of reproductive health. Basically, they

502
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: were fighting to take reproductive health like birth control, abortion, pregnancy,

503
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: and birth out of the page riarchical field of western medicine,

504
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: and to have direct control over their own bodies, which

505
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean like d I Y at home abortions,

506
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: but it means abortions performed by like competent practitioners, whether

507
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: they're in the medical field or not. And there's this

508
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: this argument that my friends have made very convincingly to

509
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: me that I tend to believe that the a lot

510
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: of the ship that's going on in the witch hunts

511
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: in Europe in medieval Europe were basically a lot of

512
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: it was about, like, here these people who are health

513
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: practitioners who are not tied into the sort of male

514
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: and academic field of health that we're trying to build,

515
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: and so we should murder them all, um, because we

516
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: want to be the ones controlling everyone's bodies instead of

517
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: like all of these women. And uh and actually a

518
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: lot of I think gay men and other people involved

519
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: in sort of like swept up in them whatever periphery

520
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: of women. I don't know how to describe this. And

521
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: so it's just it's hard to control population people's bodies

522
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: if there's all these like wild and free practitioners running

523
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: around helping people control their own bodies. Um. And one

524
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: of the things that that's so interesting about this argument

525
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: is that it basically means that the medicalization of reproductive

526
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: health was a violent process that required mass murder. Um.

527
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: You just killed all the practitioners, as you probably guessed.

528
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: Anyone listening to this. I'm not here to convince you

529
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: to be pro choice, because I'm assuming that you are

530
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: anyone who's listening to this, and if you're not, you should.

531
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll get something out of this episode. Maybe listening

532
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: to it would be good for you. Maybe you'll just

533
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: hate me. That's fine. Um. And because I'm not really

534
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: here to like balance the moral weight of abortion today,

535
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: I just want to like celebrate heroic at us women

536
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: who refuse to go along with a society that told

537
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: them they couldn't control their own reproductive health. And so

538
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: I want to celebrate the Jain collective. Man, I'm proud.

539
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: Sometime around there's a lot of arguments about exactly what

540
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: year had happened. I'm actually the person who does know

541
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: is alive, but lots of people writing lots of different

542
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: things on the Internet and in books because everything doesn't

543
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: match up with the anyway. In is a white Jewish

544
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: socialist student in Chicago named Heather Booth who got a

545
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: call from her friend and her friend was despondent. His

546
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: sister was pregnant and she didn't know what to do.

547
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: Abortion was illegal in every state in the US at

548
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: that point, with a few medical exceptions here, and they're

549
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: different in different places, and Heather hadn't given much thought

550
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: to abortion access until that moment, but she was like,

551
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: all right, I'll see what I can do, And basically,

552
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: just with that willingness to step up when someone needed help,

553
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: she started one of the most radical and interesting abortion

554
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: access groups in history, which is a lesson to everyone

555
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: that sometimes you just step up when the call to

556
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: adventure happens. This isn't part of my script. I'me Griffin badly.

557
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: I don't like that. UM, but yeah, I agree like

558
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: that we're seeing we're seeing it happen. Unfortunately, as there

559
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: has become evident that we're back into this fight again,

560
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: we've almost like started over and it feels like we're

561
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: star over into this point, and funds are being created

562
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: to make sure that if it does happen, if it's

563
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: outright band and I know we're gonna talk about this

564
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: probably a bit, that we will have an underground network

565
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: essentially to continue to help the people who need this access.

566
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: And I know it happened in Chile too, UM and

567
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: Poland to where the neighboring countries have set up these

568
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: funds as Poland has passed one of the strictest abortion

569
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: restrictions that they're now making an underground essentially UH network

570
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: for them to get access when they need it by

571
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: giving as many people UH traveled UH reimbursement as well

572
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: as places to stay UM to get in that plan

573
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: be all of those things. So yeah, I think unfortunately,

574
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about talking about this story, and I'm

575
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: so glad you're bringing this up because we are repeating

576
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: history and we may have to look at this as

577
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: an example of all right, y'all, let's get let let's

578
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: get it together. We've got to do something and become

579
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: radical essentially. Yeah, No, I I what are you talking about?

580
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: This is a history podcast. History doesn't have lessons for

581
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: the present, right, we don't have to learn history. Yeah,

582
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: it's just random that I picked this topic. No, I

583
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: really like and please continue with the how it ties

584
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: into everything, because like, oh, you're speaking to my soul.

585
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: So good. Okay. So Heather Booth was already a radical

586
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: right uh. In nineteen sixty four, she joined Freedom Summer,

587
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: which is when activists flooded to Mississippi to defy the

588
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: KKK and register black voters and set up schools and libraries,

589
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: which didn't go smoothly. At least seven people were murdered

590
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: by right wing forces, including black residents and both white

591
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: and black civil rights activists from from outside the area,

592
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: and something like seventy black homes, churches, and businesses were

593
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: bombed or burned, eighty activists were beaten, and more than

594
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: a thousand activists ended up arrested, including Heather Booth. During

595
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: all of this, it also wasn't like it's like, it

596
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: wasn't perfect and Rosie either. I mean, I just described

597
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: all the horrible stuff that happened, but um, it also

598
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: led to some resentment, at least according to some of

599
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: the sources I read. I suspect that people had a

600
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: lot of different opinions about what happened. Some local black

601
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: residents felt that those kind of a paternalistic white northern

602
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: savior thing that had just happened, and they weren't necessarily

603
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: excited about it. But I believe that that is, you know,

604
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: people have very different opinions about things, and it's it's

605
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: sort of a critical, if complicated chapter of the civil

606
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: rights movement, and and how their Booth was was part

607
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: of it. And I think this is also important because

608
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: we it's always important to talk about how all of

609
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: the people fighting for all these things always come from

610
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: intersections or believe in intersectionality, even if that term didn't

611
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: exist yet. You know, like I did another episode once

612
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: on on abolitionists and realized that all the abolitionists were feminists,

613
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: and all the feminist re abolitionists, not universally, but the

614
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: ones who were cool enough to make it into my podcast.

615
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: And so anyway, so it's not coming out of nowhere this,

616
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: you know. So she's back in Chicago after that summer,

617
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: and she was helping form feminist groups where the where

618
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: women talked about the issues facing them, a process that

619
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: a few years later got more widespread and be called

620
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: consciousness raising groups. Was a big part of feminist movement

621
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: in the United States in the sixties and seventies. Um.

622
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: And this is probably how she ended up being the

623
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: person her friend thought to call. But that's that's just conjecture.

624
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why a friend called her. So she

625
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: gets the call, and she asks around the medical community

626
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: within the civil rights movement, basically being like, you know,

627
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: who can perform an abortion on my friend? You know

628
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: who wants to commit a felony really quick? And the

629
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: doctor she eventually reached, as best as I can tell,

630
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: was a surgeon named TRM. Howard, who gets left out

631
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: of this history sometimes and not always, which a shame

632
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: because he's a really fucking interesting guy. He was more

633
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: famous as a civil rights leader than he was as

634
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: a doctor. He was one of the most prominent non

635
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: socialist voices in the movement. Most of the civil rights

636
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: movement was substantially further left than than this guy. But

637
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: you know his black man fighting for civil rights? Uh,

638
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. So. So during the Emmett Till case,

639
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 1: which again I'm gonna wander to tell you about cool

640
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: people have to say about all these horrible things that happened. Um,

641
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: Emmetti was a fourteen year old black kid who was

642
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: really murdered by a white mob in Mississippi in and

643
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: during that case, Howard helped run the search for evidence,

644
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: and I believe that's where he became more prominent within

645
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: the civil rights movement. And during that trial, discriminatory gun

646
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: laws wouldn't let him own weapons, but he he did anyway,

647
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: And he kept a pistol in a secret compartment in

648
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: his car, and he slept with a Thompson machine gun

649
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: at the foot of his bed. Um. And there's this

650
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: whole history that I also will want hopefully one day cover,

651
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: uh about hitting Within the civil rights movement, there was

652
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: actually a huge move Even if the political action was

653
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: largely non violent, people weren't people were fine with self defense,

654
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: and a lot of that movement was armed. Um, so

655
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: he was very politically engaged. He runs for Republican. He

656
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: runs as a Republican for Congress in nineteen fifty eight.

657
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: He doesn't win. But he also fought against the criminalization

658
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: of sex work, which rules. And he was a surgeon

659
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: and a legal abortionist, which he considered part of his

660
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: civil rights work, which also just rules. And he was

661
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: arrested in nineteen nineteen sixty five for providing abortions in Chicago,

662
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: although he was never convicted. So Heather Booth reaches out

663
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: to him and he's like, yeah, bring your friend's sister

664
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: to my office. So word gets around quickly that Heather

665
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: Booth has the hook up with safe abortionists because obviously,

666
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: regardless of law, people are still getting abortions in the

667
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: United States at this point. Um yeah, um, I'm shocked,

668
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: but it's weird. It's almost like anyway, right, just because

669
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: it's outlawed. Yeah, we thought we got rid of that.

670
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: It definitely stopped everything for sure. I didn't make everything

671
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: else dangerous for the low socioeconomic status and easy access

672
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: for the rich people who still kept getting abortions. What wait,

673
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: did you read my script? Did I share it? We're

674
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: just in tune. We're not saying as we're best friends. Yeah,

675
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: me to remind people I'm their best friend when they

676
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: don't know. That's the name of your podcast should be, Uh,

677
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: your best friend tells you boutad Obviously that's the perfect title. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um,

678
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: we're professional. I love. I have to say that every

679
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: few hours, just to remind myself and others around me.

680
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: Speaking of being a professional, Margaret, do you know what

681
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: time it is? Is it time to tell you about

682
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: how great it is to eat potatoes and other healthy

683
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: food direct from gardens instead of and how everyone should

684
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: grow their own food, and how this podcast is sponsored

685
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: by the concept of self reliance and inter reliance among

686
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: healthy communities and no other sponsors at all, except for

687
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: a few that might slip in after I stopped talking. Yes,

688
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: here's some ads, and we're back. I hope you enjoyed

689
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: those ads. I hope all of them were for really

690
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: positive things and none of them were for bad things,

691
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: which is definitely the way that advertising works. I was

692
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: gonna say, if they're not, it's Robert Evans fault. I

693
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: can say that that's true. Everything is Robert. Anything you

694
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: don't like is Robert's fault. That's how I lived my life.

695
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: Robert is in charge of making all the decisions about

696
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: advertising for them now or again. If you have problems

697
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: with it, you should hit him up on Twitter twe

698
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: Director of Tweets, and your emails to him las him,

699
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: not me. Thank you. All right. So it's hard to

700
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: keep stats on a legal ship. For some weird reason,

701
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: people don't like necessarily always telling the government when they

702
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: do a legal ship UM. But one five study estimated

703
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: that anywhere between two hundred thousand and a one million

704
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand abortions were happening every year in the

705
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: United States in ninety five. Around nineteen seventy the UM,

706
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: which is still three years before Roe v. Wade, the

707
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: claimed number is more like one to two million. But

708
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: who knows abortions are happening. Rich women get the hook

709
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 1: up from their private doctors, or they fly to the UK,

710
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: where abortion law is generally more lenient UM, and for

711
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: less privileged folks it's a lot less rosy. The underground

712
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: abortion scene was like a mixed match of like sketchy

713
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: grifters and then well, meaning incompetent doctors, but you didn't

714
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: necessarily have a way to determine which one you're going

715
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: to get. And almost all of them are men, and

716
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: a lot of them are also connected to organized crime,

717
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: including some of the good ones. I think some of

718
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: the good ones were just like outright criminals attached to

719
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: organized crime. Yeah, it was really interesting to see that layer,

720
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: as when you start like finding out these backgrounds, you're

721
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: like wow, wow, okay, okay, Yeah, they're gonna come up

722
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: a couple of times in this story intrigue, although not

723
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: as much as they could because some of the people

724
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: involved in this are all still alive, right, and so

725
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to make conjectures about certain things. Let's

726
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: not in danger anybody today. Yeah, Okay. So, as an

727
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: interesting note, Chicago actually had one of the only women

728
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: doctors that I found when I was looking at women abortionists,

729
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: but pre Chine. I'm sure there were more, but um

730
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: Dr Josephine Gabbler performed more than eighteen thousand abortions throughout

731
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, and her patients were referred to or

732
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: from almost two hundred different medical facilities, and basically she

733
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: would pay a kickback to all the like medical facilities

734
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: that would send her patients. Um, they would get a

735
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: quarter of the abortion fee because everything is sketchy in

736
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: crime Land. But she was also a I believe, a

737
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: safe and competent abortionist. And then in nineteen forties she

738
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: sold her practice to her receptionist, Adam Martin, and she

739
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: takes over the practice, but she actually hires outside practitioners

740
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: to perform the actual abortions because she was a receptionist,

741
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: not a surgeon or whatever. Um. But in the nineteen

742
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: forties and fifties, abort and laws started being enforced more strenuously.

743
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: It was always illegal, but it was like kind of

744
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: a lot of times a lot of places, I was like, well,

745
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: you don't kill anyone. We aren't necessarily going to do anything.

746
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: But then fifties, unfortunately, right when this receptionist takes over,

747
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: abortion law gets enforced more strenuously, and which of course

748
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: shutters the safest abortion clinics in the country and does

749
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: nothing to stop women from meeting abortions. So Heather Booth

750
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: is compiling all the names of the reasonable providers that

751
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: she can run across, basically keeping track of who could

752
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: be trusted to be safe, both like kind of legally safe,

753
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: like I mean not it's illegal, but you know, to

754
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: be careful, also to be medically safe, and also to

755
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: be sexually safe, because there's a whole problem with abortion

756
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: providers creeping on the patients in their care, which obviously

757
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: legalization didn't stop. But um, you know, that's why even

758
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: when things are legal, we still need people to advocate

759
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: for us. And so more and more people start coming

760
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: to her for referrals, but she starts getting busier. In

761
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, she marries Paul Booth, who's an activist

762
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: She met at a sit in demonstration against the draft

763
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: in the Vietnam War. Because again, everything is intersectional. He

764
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: went on to help found Students for Democratic Society in

765
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. By nineteen sixty nine, they had two kids,

766
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: and she had a job, and she was in grad

767
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: school and she couldn't handle running like underground crime ring

768
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: all by herself. Um, so she called up a bunch

769
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: of other activists women and got them in on her

770
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: underground crime ring. And that's how Jane started. And Jane

771
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: wasn't called Jane. It was the not quite as bad

772
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: as a Soviet name, but it was the Abortion Council

773
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: in Service of the Chicago Women's Liberation Union a little shorter, yeah,

774
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: and they were like, you know, just let's just call

775
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: it Jane. They mostly called it the Service within their

776
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: own ranks apparently, um, but they picked Jane to be

777
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: like kind of like the every woman name, right, like

778
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, we're all Jane or whatever, like Jane Doe.

779
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: And history remembers that as the Jain Collective, which is

780
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: a better name than the Abortion Council Service in the

781
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: Chicago Women's Libration Union. It's a cooler name. It's definitely

782
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: like rings, like, oh, this is a good mystery novel.

783
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: Let's go oh good point. Yeah, no, totally yeah. And

784
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: then they get the sense of intrigue in your life.

785
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: And if you're going to go do a crime, right,

786
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: you should get some intrigue in your life out of

787
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: it. It It shouldn't be like the cold like Bureau of

788
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: Crime where you like go in and they're like, please

789
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: fill out a form for the crime you would like

790
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: to commit, and you're like and they're like we need

791
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: it and triplicate. No, it should be fucking like exciting

792
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: the collective. I mean, come on, is the Jain Collective.

793
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: So obviously they're badass espionage parts of to this somehow

794
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: in like secret coded languages and all that kind of stuff.

795
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: Come on, you gotta be good. I can't wait till

796
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: we can talk about more of the underground parts of

797
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: the history. But I am not wishing. I wouldn't wish

798
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: them all along happy lives. So okay, So they spend

799
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: months planning out the whole thing before they launch. They're

800
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: trying to be really careful with their crime ring they

801
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: and also it's not just because it's crime. They actually

802
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: they're doing this because they care, right, And so they're like,

803
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: all right, what are we going to do if one

804
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: of our patients has a medical emergency? What are we

805
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: going to do if someone dies? What are we going

806
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: to do? If one of us is arrested? What are

807
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: we going to do if one of our doctors is arrested?

808
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: They like mapped all this out for months. They mapped

809
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: it all very carefully, and then they opened and they

810
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: decided to keep minimal records and have different volunteers handle

811
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: patient contact and doctor contact because again crime. And they

812
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: also got an answering machine, which is like a weird

813
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: it's only notable to me because it's like a nice

814
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: visual detail because I think at the time it's like

815
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: a huge real to real machine. And so then and

816
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: then they put up ads in all the student and

817
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: underground newspapers in Chicago and they say pregnant don't want

818
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: to be called Jane. It's so snazzy, like I know,

819
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: I know, like it was a whole system. Yeah, I

820
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: love it. It's kind of like they're trying to if

821
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: you do know, doing war times, I guess they were

822
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: doing the messages, his telegrams are trying to decode things.

823
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: It was this level and it was phenomenal. Yeah, and

824
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: we will hopefully never need it again. But it's an

825
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: interesting anecdote about history. Um, it'll make me cry, come on, yeah, okay. So,

826
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: so when they first started, they worked with a bunch

827
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: of different abortionists, and slowly they started using one guy

828
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: more and more. And some accounts call him Nick and

829
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: some accounts call him Mike, and all of the accounts

830
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: put his name in in like quotes. I gonna say

831
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: they put in air quotes. But that's what I'm doing,

832
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: is the air quotes. You often see it because Nick

833
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: Mike is a crime guy, like that's his thing, through

834
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: and through. Like one account just refers to him as

835
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: like a con man over and over again, but it's

836
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: a very positive account about like their con man, right.

837
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: And some accounts say he was a mafia abortionist, and

838
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: some accounts say he was independent and on the run

839
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: from both cops and the mafia. I straight up don't

840
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: know what to believe. If you've heard one way or

841
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: the other, I'd be curious. But yeah, I did hear

842
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: a to the mafia at one point in time. But again,

843
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: like that's kind of like, doesn't make me make it

844
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: more intriguing that this is what's happened, or doesn't make

845
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: it more sinister, right, Well, what's going to make it

846
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: both more intriguing and sinister is that at least one

847
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: account wants you to know that Nick Mike is the

848
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: sexiest man alive. Okay, wait, I missed that. As much

849
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: research as I've done and trying to get this stuff

850
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: that I did not see. So now like, well I

851
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: gotta have a picture, come on, but mark photo. No,

852
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: I don't think there's pictures of quote. I don't know.

853
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: We don't actually have an identity for him because he

854
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: wasn't around but they wanted to know that he is

855
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: a babe, Like I need to know who said this.

856
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: So it wasn't collective something. It was one of the

857
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: Jane collective. I can't remember at the top of my head.

858
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't Jody because it was someone who would go

859
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: and meet with him. Um. And it's in one of

860
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: her accounts. It's from an interview. I think it's in

861
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: the There's a zine that came out in like two

862
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: thousand three or four called Jane and that has a

863
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: lot of the interviews and ship and that was where

864
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: I pulled the Sexiest Man Alive part from and that

865
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: that stays in my memory. You know that is amazing. Yeah,

866
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for the subtext, you know, like like

867
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: who's who's sucking who? And um, like this has become

868
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: a drug, Like not only has it become like an

869
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: espionage things, it's kind of becoming a soap opera or

870
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: something alone. Those lies for someone have to put that

871
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: narrative in, like he's one of the sexiest men. I'm like,

872
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: how sexy I have I have a feeling because it

873
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: was the sexties seventies he had the mustache. I know

874
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: he did he had to have the mustache, right, totally. Yeah,

875
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: probably in long hair, you know, like but not like

876
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: full hippie long hair, just like kind of a yeah.

877
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: I was describing this to one of my friends and

878
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, he probably had like a leather

879
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: jacket and said, chow a lot, you know, um, And

880
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced by the chow part. I'm not convinced.

881
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: I think my friend, I've been watching a lot of

882
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: is any Wizard That's amazing and that's turned out. I

883
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: really wish I don't want like any like real because

884
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to focus on him because he and

885
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: himself was whatever. But the fact that this was like

886
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: a narrative around him is phenomenal. Yeah, totally. And when

887
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: they would go beat him, at least for a while,

888
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if he stayed this way all the time.

889
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: He would only meet one Jane at a time because

890
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: theoretically he wanted to avoid conspiracy charges, and if you

891
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: have three or more people talking about a crime, then

892
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: you can get conspiracy charges. And I'm not trying to

893
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: say that this is the way you successfully avoid conspiracy

894
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: charges is you never let more than one other person

895
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: in the room at the same time, but theoretically that

896
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: was what his his whole thing was. And so they

897
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: liked their new con man and they started working more

898
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: or less exclusively with with him, and they would, I

899
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: guess pick him up the airport driving motel and they

900
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: would bring him work. He wanted slightly less pay than

901
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: most the other abortionists, but he was still wasn't cheap

902
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: and he was in it for the money. Um. Most

903
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: abortions at the time rant six hundred dollars to a

904
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which is four to seven thousand dollars into

905
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: Jane was able to offer them for five hundred at

906
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: the start, which is and then after about five or

907
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: six full price abortion Nick Mike would do a couple

908
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: for cheaper um. And one of the founders, Jody Howard,

909
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: was Nick Mike is still such a funny thing to me,

910
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: and that the only thing we know about them is

911
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: that they were hot. Yeah, totally, that's all you need

912
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: to know. Come on, ck Mike, Nick Mike, It's so funny.

913
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: Wanted to be his first and middle name name. Yeah, yeah,

914
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: he was. He never actually lied about anything. He just

915
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: his name was Nick, last name Mike. And the man

916
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: with two first names. Okay, the whole guide there to

917
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: the round this one mysterious man anyway, going on? Okay, So,

918
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: so one of the founders, Jody Howard, was particularly close

919
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: with Nick Mike and there's some kind of like subtext

920
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: and what I read. But again, I'm not trying to

921
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: make assumptions because people might still be alive. But but

922
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: Jody decided, and this actually makes a lot of sense, right,

923
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: She was like, there needs to be a woman in

924
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: the room as you're performing these abortions, and so she

925
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: started insisting and then started insisting that he apprenticed her

926
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: and her own uh. Jody Howard's own entry into the

927
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: movement was kind of interesting. She had two kids in

928
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: lymphatic cancer and she was pregnant for a third time,

929
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: and she knew that childbirth would as likely as not

930
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: killer uh, and doctors still wouldn't let her get an abortion. Theoretically,

931
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: the law at the time was if childbirth would kill,

932
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: you can get an abortion. So the only way she

933
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: felt like she could take matters into her own hands

934
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: about this is she basically like, give me an abortion

935
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: or I'll kill myself and um, and they were like, okay,

936
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: you can have an abortion now, and which is just

937
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: a like how cruel is a law that the only

938
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: way that you can control your own body is by

939
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: like threatening to end your own life. Um, So she

940
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: became an abortion access crusader, imagine that. And she figured out,

941
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: she was the first one to figure out, apparently kind

942
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: of quickly, that handsome man crime doc Nick Mike wasn't

943
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: a doctor. Um. He had a lot of things going

944
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: for him, but a medical license was not one of

945
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: the things he had going for him. And and she

946
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: knew that. So once again, the only thing that's actually

947
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: accurate about Nick Mike is hot. Possibly that was by

948
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 1: one person's it is it is in Stone thinks you're sexy.

949
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: You're sexy? You know? Okay, God, anyway, keep going, all right.

950
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: So she decides not to tell anyone at first, because

951
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: she's like, everyone's going to freak the funk out. And

952
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: she's like, also like, but if if he can learn it,

953
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: and he's not a doctor, so can I. I'm not

954
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: a doctor. And so he made him teacher. And and

955
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: at first Nick Mike is working out of motels, but

956
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: then one day an angry husband comes and like is

957
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: banging on the motel room door, and they realized they

958
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: had to step up their security. So in order to

959
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: make it all more mystery novel crime novel, they start

960
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: renting apartments all over the city and they need to

961
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: at any given time. First they have the front where

962
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: all the patients come for counseling and consultation. It's where

963
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: it's also where they show up on the day of

964
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: the abortion, and they're encouraged to bring loved ones for support.

965
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: And of course most people who can who get abortions

966
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: already have children, and so they provided childcare at the

967
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: front as well. And working at the front was therefore

968
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: this like really demanding job. You were a counselor, you

969
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: were a babysitter, and you're also like an entertainer. You

970
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: were passing out like snacks and tea and soda and

971
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: shipped like anxious boyfriends and probably girlfriends and siblings and

972
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: all that ship, you know. And then you had the

973
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: place that was the front night of the place. Very

974
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: it's still better than the Soviet names. Actually is also

975
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: kind of sound like anyway whatever um it looks sounds

976
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: very coded and wonderfully yeah, totally. And so the places,

977
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: the apartment where the abortion is actually performed on a

978
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: bed with like plastic and cloth sheets down, and um.

979
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: They worked hard to make the whole experiences like un

980
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: medical as possible. They worked to be relaxing and inviting

981
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: and communicate with people about what's going on. Some of

982
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: the reports I was reading and said, this isn't always work.

983
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're like, hey, I'm like, I'm your new best friend,

984
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, and they're like trying to be really nice,

985
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: and then um, and sometimes they're like, no, this is

986
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: the worst day in my life. Let's get this fucking

987
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: over with, you know. And other times they were like,

988
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: you know, friendly and stuff. Then there are the drivers

989
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: who took people from one place to the other. They

990
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: rather they took people from the front to the place

991
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: and from the place to the front. And these were

992
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: in somewhat short supply, apparently because most of the James

993
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: were students at the University of Chicago and so um,

994
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of them come from New York City

995
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: where people just didn't have driver's licenses, so the few

996
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: drivers with driver's licenses were basically it's like all of

997
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: the jobs that any of the James were doing were

998
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: incredibly important, not just the abortionists, you know, and they

999
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: performed over eleven thousand abortions and like barely three year span.

1000
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: It's like ninety nineteen seventy three. A later obstetrician looking

1001
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: at their records suggested it was as safe as any

1002
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: above ground legal clinic. Um. They never had a patient die, uh,

1003
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: at least not one that they performed an abortion on.

1004
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: They did have one time where a woman came in

1005
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: in bad shape. She tried and failed to enter pregnancy

1006
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: on her own a few different ways, because making things

1007
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: illegal is really fucked up, UM, and she had a

1008
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: really severe infection. Jane determined it wasn't safe to operate

1009
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: on her, and so they insisted she go to the hospital,

1010
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: and she didn't. She went home instead. And I kind

1011
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: of assume, I mean, I feel like we've all been

1012
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: there or we've been like someone's like you really see

1013
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: a doctor and you're like, doctor, we look like a millionaire,

1014
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: you know. I mean. And also again the stigma and

1015
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: the judgments and if she was trying, if this person

1016
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: was trying to do a self abortion, that in itself

1017
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: told tells you how a dire of a situation they

1018
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: felt they were in and felt like they had to

1019
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: do something whatever they could and it killed them, which

1020
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: is what that situation leads to. When you really feel

1021
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: whatever circumstanced, whether it's trying to not be disapproved by

1022
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: the parents or the family or idy or whatever, having

1023
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: this level of being alone and trying to do whatever

1024
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: you can no matter the cost, and then not realizing

1025
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: there is another option until it's too late. That's that's

1026
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 1: that whole level in itself that just breaks your heart

1027
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: in this whole situation. But I love to set up

1028
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: about the front and the place as you were talking about,

1029
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: because as I was reading about these things, the idea

1030
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: that going to a gynecologist, going to get your yearly

1031
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: check up, it's frightening. Going to a doctor in general

1032
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: is frightening as hell to me. It's probably one of

1033
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: those anxiety moments of like, oh my God, why do

1034
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: I have to be here, and to know that you're

1035
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: going to do something that seems that you've been told

1036
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: is wrong a B. So you have all of this

1037
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: guilt on top of that. Whatever it may be, whatever

1038
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: the situation is, and we don't know the outlying situation,

1039
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: whether it is you did have considual sex and you

1040
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: didn't have protection, or because you didn't understand the way

1041
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: anatomy works. You didn't have full understanding what was happening

1042
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 1: with you. We already know was like there's sexual trauma

1043
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: within even normal situations that could be sexual trauma. And

1044
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: I want to say normal, I mean consensual situations or

1045
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: what it was consensual? Uh, like having understanding, would these

1046
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 1: Jay's coming in and be like, let me counsel you

1047
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: and let's have a deep conversation, but also we're going

1048
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: to set this whole place up like a home so

1049
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: that you feel comfortable and like not instead of in

1050
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: a theile, scary back haul like what people would search

1051
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: for at that point in time trying to get those

1052
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: illegal abortions. Really feel like these are professionals, Like that's wow,

1053
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: Like that's above and beyond. I love that. Yeah, I

1054
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: know that, and thinking about like I mean, you know,

1055
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 1: not in anywhere the same level of scale of what

1056
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: some other people have to deal with. I remember, um

1057
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: the first time, just so now that listeners no way

1058
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: too much about my sexual history and health. I went

1059
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: to go an sci screening the first time after I

1060
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: came out as trends and was willing to, you know,

1061
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,959
Speaker 1: put down my actual gender on on forms and things

1062
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: like that, and I went to go again a t

1063
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: I screening and like, you know, and was in this

1064
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: stupid room with a stupid health practitioner who touched me

1065
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: inappropriately and like came onto me while you know, um

1066
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 1: touching my genitals and like yeah, and I'm like and

1067
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: then and then I it took me a long ast

1068
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: time before I went got st I screened again, you know,

1069
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: and like I'm not proud of that, and I'm sorry everyone,

1070
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, but like but it's like and just thinking

1071
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: about what it must be like, yeah, like you're talking

1072
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: about being in this situation where you're like, fuck it,

1073
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: I'm giving myself an abortion, you know. Like so I'm

1074
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: like really not trying to shame this person who like

1075
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: chose not to go to the hospital until it's too late.

1076
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: You know. This is about, first and foremost, I'm so

1077
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: sorry that you went through that bullshit on every level

1078
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: and it was wrong and that person should be arrested

1079
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: and they are assholes, first and foremost. Yeah, I've had

1080
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: enough of my day with just people being bad people

1081
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: and what happened to you, Oh my god, I'm speechless

1082
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: in that. I hate that now I'm beginning to know

1083
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: you that whatever anyone would ever have to go through

1084
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: anything like that to a person that they should be

1085
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: able to trust. Professionals are someone that we should be

1086
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: able to trust. And you were kind of talking about

1087
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: that with the James being like Heathery being like, you

1088
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: know what, I think there needs to be a woman

1089
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 1: present so we can watch and make sure they don't

1090
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: feel traumatized. That in itself, Oh god, I am so

1091
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: sorry and that should not have happened to you and

1092
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: that was wrong in every fucking level. Thank you. Yeah,

1093
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny to like, you know, like, oh,

1094
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: I've like barely told people this and now I've told

1095
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: however many people of this um but like I don't

1096
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: have any I don't feel any like guilt or shame

1097
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: around it. I'm just angry, you know, and like right,

1098
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: and I'm angry that, like, you know, I was like

1099
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: so excited you like whatever, if I talked about this

1100
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: too much, I'll start crying. But like I was so

1101
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: excited that I could like fill out the form and

1102
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: actually write down that I'm like, you know, transwoman and

1103
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: ship like that, and it's like, oh, I'm gonna have

1104
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: gender firming care. I've never had gender firming care. And

1105
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, actually, be it being seen as a

1106
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: woman sucks everything. Um yeah, that's definitely just a whole

1107
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: different level of like this moment that you should be

1108
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: celebrating to be free, Oh my god, free here I am.

1109
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: I get to be here and be who I am,

1110
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: and then have this dick coming through and just ruining

1111
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: that moment and then honestly portraying their portraying their professionalism,

1112
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: betraying their profession, um and showing off as like oh, yeah,

1113
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: you are evil in general and therefore you shouldn't they

1114
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: should not be a part of this profession whatever what not.

1115
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: But on top of that, yeah, that you had the

1116
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: audacity to take someone's hope. Yeah, in safety and I

1117
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: hate that. I am so sorry. And again yeah uh

1118
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: and I love yeah you being angry. Yeah you're better

1119
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: than I because I think I would like rage everywhere.

1120
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: But you know, that's a whole different conversation with me.

1121
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: J Now, I I am I am totally fine with

1122
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: rage and anger as a way of dealing with certain

1123
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: issues in society and in my personal life when when

1124
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: people are doing things um yeah, and yeah, coming back

1125
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: to I love that the Jain collective really kind of

1126
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: understood that level. And yeah, I hate that that someone

1127
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: died and that's not someone that they I know, like

1128
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: they were traumatized them, which is why we've got they

1129
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: Their whole attitude was like, we gotta do better. That's

1130
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: why we as women. Even though they were not doctors

1131
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: of medical professionals, it is concerning. I will say what

1132
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: I first read that, I was like, oh, that's a

1133
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: good idea. But understanding that they really cared about these

1134
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: people that were coming in and was all about giving

1135
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: them safety and understanding what they had to do is

1136
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: what they had to do because the doctors were no

1137
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: longer coming through because they were getting like the ro

1138
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: Versus way, it was really coming through about who was

1139
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: getting penalized and who was really getting targeted. Um, and

1140
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: so they had less and less options and why not

1141
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: if they can truly do a good job. And and

1142
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: the big thing was getting the right equipment, getting sterilized equipment.

1143
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: I know that was a big factor in it as well. Yeah, um,

1144
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: but you know who will sell you sterile medical equipment

1145
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: they can use? Tell me the products can we get?

1146
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: Can we get? Can we get sponsored by by at

1147
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: home Abortion Care. You know, one of our sponsors was

1148
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: playing b hell yeah yeah, so there you go. Okay,

1149
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: well and then we're sponsored by that and whatever. This

1150
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: other stuff is back from the break. That was a

1151
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: long one. Let's go. And you know who else kept

1152
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: going was was the Jain Collective because as as you

1153
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: were pointing out, like the this brush with death like

1154
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: shook them up because they I mean, it wasn't their fault, right,

1155
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: they didn't do anything wrong, but they care. Yeah. That

1156
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: was the whole point of them starting is because they

1157
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: wanted to prevent uh people from dying from this type

1158
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: of process and this type of access. And so even

1159
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: though it had nothing to do with them, it was

1160
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: still a death because of something. So yeah, and I

1161
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: was trying to make a joke about how they are

1162
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: actually just in it to make a quick book, but

1163
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 1: it wouldn't even work because it's so obviously untrue. Um.

1164
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: And so they keep going. Over a hundred women work

1165
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: as Jane. So the course of the project though generally

1166
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: is like twenty thirty at any given time, um, which

1167
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: is kind of interesting to have this like high turnover rate,

1168
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: Like oh, like is this casual thing. You go join

1169
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: this like very above ground, underground organization that's like committing felonies,

1170
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: which is cool. One Jane named Jeannie gallatzer Levy and

1171
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: she'll come up more later. She described her first meeting

1172
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: that she showed up to for orientation. There were like

1173
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: thirty women crammed into the dining. Each new volunteer was

1174
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: paired with a big sister who would get them on

1175
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: boarded like a mentor. And at each meeting, they would

1176
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: pass around index cards with all of the cases that

1177
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: needed to be handled, and everyone would take the cards

1178
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: of the cases that they wanted to handle, And of

1179
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: course that meant they like everyone took the easy cards first,

1180
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, and then like the big complicated ones. Everyone's like,

1181
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: but you know, we've all been there. And so Jody

1182
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: Howard finally tells the rest of the group that sexy

1183
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: nick Man was not a quote unquote real doctor. Um

1184
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: and did we change did we change his name to

1185
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: Nick Man? No? Nick Mike? Sorry? I? Um, yeah, no

1186
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: nick Man, sexy man. I don't know, Yeah, it wrong.

1187
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: Everyone's listening an amazing, amazing by to sexy nick Man,

1188
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: sexy sexy sexy guy. Uh it's okay. So people take

1189
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: the news really hard, right, um. And the reactions fall

1190
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: into two camps, and half of them were like, we're

1191
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: no better than the back alley providers, and the other

1192
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: half were like, well, if crime guy can do it,

1193
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: so can we. And um. In general, the former camp

1194
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: left and the latter camp stayed, and many of the

1195
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: people who stayed. You know, I've I've read some said

1196
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: that half of the Jain's left, and I've read other

1197
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: things that said that's an exaggeration. I don't know, um, right,

1198
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: but a lot of the ones who stayed learned how

1199
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: to provide abortions, and abortion was kind of having a

1200
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: bit of a renaissance around this time in the late

1201
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: six season early seventies in terms of how it was done. Um,

1202
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: a lot of the abortionists, Yeah, we're sketchy Backelley providers,

1203
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: but um, but the Jain Collective wasn't the only ones

1204
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: who are taking it seriously and and caring. Other people

1205
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: were working their asses off to help people get abortions

1206
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: safely and effectively despite state repression. And we're gonna talk

1207
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: a little bit later, I think in part two about

1208
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: some of the things that the methods that people pioneered

1209
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: and which ones are still applicable to the name, which

1210
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: ones are not. Um, so so Nick Mike, he makes

1211
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: himself obsolete. Um he was a crime guy at the

1212
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: end of the day, and he's in it for the money,

1213
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: but he's willing to make himself obsolete. So he teaches

1214
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: a lot of Jane's how to do this because and

1215
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we want to charge a hunter bucks

1216
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, that's not gonna happen. So he

1217
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: teaches them how to do it, and then he sucks

1218
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: off and he's just like gone, his trail goes cold.

1219
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: Did you ever have you ever heard anything else there's this?

1220
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: So they're like, one of the things that I read

1221
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: was that that the mafia was after him and that's

1222
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: why he just disappeared. But that could have been just

1223
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: someone trying to make a big, bigger story and that's

1224
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: why we don't have nothing of them. But it could

1225
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: be as as simple as he didn't want any part

1226
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: of it. They it got a little hot. A lot

1227
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: of people were investigating different types of organizations, and because

1228
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: the doctors had pulled out, he pulled out too. And

1229
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: also he didn't get enough money since they were trying

1230
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: to downgrade the costs. So he was like, fine, never

1231
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: see you again. But yeah, I did hear that the

1232
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: mafia might have come after him. Yeah. I like to

1233
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: think that he rode away into the sunset on a

1234
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: mo recycle while smoking and then lived a hundred and seven.

1235
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: That's that's the version of him. Yeah, sexy Nick Mike

1236
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: has got he's got it to be in the sunset somewhere. Yeah,

1237
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: for some reason, he is Mike Nick for me. But

1238
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: I hear what I'm saying, Nick, Mike is Mike Nick

1239
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: for me. And you know what, that's just a personal preference.

1240
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: I guess y, Nick Mike, Mike Nick can be whoever

1241
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: you need him to be, because he's just the sexy

1242
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: man he rode away, who shows up and teaches you

1243
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: how to provide abortions and then rides off at the sunset.

1244
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: Apply there you go. Who knew this is what we

1245
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: needed in our lives. But the greatest part is they

1246
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: only needed him for a little while, just a little while,

1247
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: because he made himself obsolete. And then at that point

1248
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: all of the work was being done entirely by women.

1249
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: And they also it wasn't just enough that they did

1250
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: it in the cold medical way. They also still wanted

1251
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: to again sort of demedicalize it, and they wanted to

1252
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: teach clients what was happening and give them agency. One

1253
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: of the one of the j Ruth Circle, in an

1254
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: interview said quote, it was one of the things we

1255
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 1: talked about a lot. We were not doing something to

1256
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: this woman. We were doing something with this woman, and

1257
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: she was as much a part of it and part

1258
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: of the process as we were. So that we would

1259
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: talk about how we relied on them. If we got busted,

1260
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, we would explain that they were not doing

1261
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: something illegal. We were doing something illegal, but we need

1262
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: their help, and you know, you don't talk about it

1263
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: and we have to keep quiet. So I like that.

1264
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: They like basically they are like, look, because it wasn't

1265
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: illegal to get an abortion, was legal to give an abortion. Um,

1266
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: so the James were taking all of the legal risk um.

1267
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: But they basically brought everyone in and we're like, look,

1268
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: like you rely on us, we need to rely on you.

1269
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's cool. Yeah, And not all of

1270
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: them performed abortion, some of them. Everyone took tasks that

1271
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: suited them best. They were callback Jane's who talked to

1272
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: the patients, and Big Janes, who would handle the coordination.

1273
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: At least one Jane later pointed out that decision making

1274
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: was kind of fraught within the collective. Um. They tended

1275
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: to suppress internal conflict and so everyone will like stay

1276
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: focused on the task and we don't have time to

1277
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: address the you know, power dynamics and the other issues happening. Um.

1278
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to like single them out for this.

1279
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: Every activist organization I've ever heard of does this, right,

1280
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: It's like something that we just need to be aware of.

1281
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether this happens particularly in direct

1282
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: action groups or if I think that because most of

1283
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: the organizations I've been involved with more direct action groups.

1284
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: But it's just a thing that happens where like people

1285
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: are like, you know, like tree sitters are like, oh,

1286
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: we can't talk about patriarchy within the movement. They're cutting

1287
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: the trees down right now, you know, right, And so

1288
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: I think they had some of that going on, at

1289
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: least according to at least one of them. Later, it

1290
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprising. Uh, And I go, of course, we

1291
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: don't know all of the jenes that came through, but

1292
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: it was pretty much ran by white women. Um, and

1293
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: when we know what happens when it comes to feminism

1294
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: and white women and where that can lead and who

1295
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: actually gate keeps what, there's always going to be situations

1296
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: with that. And then when you have something that is

1297
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: so uh as you said from but like uncertain, anything illegal,

1298
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: we know it's going to be uncertain, it's going to

1299
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: have a lot of stress. And I can't imagine what

1300
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: that looks like within a group, especially when we're also

1301
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,640
Speaker 1: handled handling medical procedures on your own as well. So

1302
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many things to that. And again,

1303
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: like talking about who was getting access, a lot of

1304
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: people were getting access, but it's seeming like it was

1305
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: a lot of like college students at this point in time.

1306
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: We know that for young women to be in college,

1307
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: they probably had some money and even though they might

1308
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 1: not have as much money as others in society, they

1309
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: still had a little bit of access and higher economic

1310
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 1: status than than most. And again it says a lot

1311
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: too even though they were trying to be accessible, but

1312
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: the word of mouth went through, who who did it

1313
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 1: go to? Typically a middle class uh women so or

1314
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: middle class people at that point in time. So there's

1315
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 1: a lot to be said kind of the same way

1316
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: that if we wanted to go jump and I don't

1317
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: want to, because I did this with Robert a long

1318
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: time ago about playned parenthood and the beginnings of that.

1319
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 1: So you know, we know that that there is things

1320
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: that happen within movements and who was leading movements and

1321
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: what that could have been on the under underbelly of it.

1322
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: And because you know more than I do, but no, no,

1323
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: I don't. And like, I mean, it's funny because once

1324
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: again you're reading my script ahead of me, and not

1325
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: in a bad way. No, I just I like that

1326
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: we're on the same page about this, because yeah, that's

1327
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: that's one of the most important things to understand with

1328
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: a lot of this is like, um, it's mostly white women.

1329
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: It's almost exclusively white women doing this work. Um. In

1330
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 1: n seventy, New York and a few other states Hawaii, Alaska,

1331
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: and Washington legalized most abortion and suddenly there weren't as

1332
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: many middle class patients from that point, and because people

1333
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: could just fly or train out to New York and

1334
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: have a legal abortion stead of going all the way

1335
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: to the UK, and so they started serving the black

1336
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: community of Chicago more and more, but it was still

1337
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: white women doing it. And and yeah, when I when

1338
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: I first read, like, oh they advertised in the student paper,

1339
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, it's really cool as students have

1340
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: access to abortion, but that is not necessarily like the

1341
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 1: majority of the people in Chicago or whatever, you know. Um,

1342
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 1: And I've only run across one, uh black chain, a

1343
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: woman named Louise, who joined basically to be like, look,

1344
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: y'all are doing a good thing, but it's like still

1345
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 1: kind of fucking weird that you're all white. And and

1346
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: then again and I read that basically her friends were like,

1347
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 1: what are you fucking doing? If these white women get caught,

1348
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: they'll get off, and if you get caught, you're you're

1349
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: fucked right. And I don't know that that ever had

1350
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,919
Speaker 1: to be tested. I don't believe it. It It was ever tested.

1351
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 1: Uh well, the fact that white women getting arrested ended up, okay,

1352
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 1: was tested, but I did I don't believe any I

1353
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: believe Louise was the only black Jain and certainly the

1354
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: only one I ran across uma And and just the

1355
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: little research that I did, I didn't see her name

1356
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: pop up and like or who she was. So yeah, again,

1357
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: probably being identified is not a thing you want to

1358
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: be doing an underground totally. Um. But yeah, absolutely that's

1359
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: dangerous on so many levels. And we understand that, and

1360
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: in Chicago and itself long ugly history of segregation and such.

1361
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: So now that Nick Mike has gone and they're providing

1362
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: the abortions themselves, though their prices are able to drop dramatically.

1363
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 1: Their abortions were nominally a hundred dollars, but realistically they

1364
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 1: took whatever the patient could offer. They averaged about fifty dollars.

1365
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: The drivers were the ones collecting the money and somewhere

1366
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: between the front and the place, but they didn't count

1367
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: the money. They just were handed money and took it.

1368
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes they were handed jars of change, and when they could,

1369
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: were taken out of every you know, and if there's

1370
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: at least twenty five dollars a far as I understand,

1371
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: twenty five is taken out and put into a revolving

1372
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 1: loan fund where people could come and say, like, I

1373
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: need a loan to get it, and they would have

1374
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: no interest loan. That kind of is a like, look,

1375
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 1: please pay it back, but we're not like sending to

1376
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 1: anyone to your house if you don't pay it back,

1377
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: you know. So it's kind of a like please pay

1378
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 1: it back, not up, you must pay system. Yeah, totally,

1379
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: And it's and it's kind of thing where it's like

1380
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: natural non system. But like I assume they weren't like,

1381
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: don't starve yourself to pay us back, right, you know? Um,

1382
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: And you know, they basically were just like, this is

1383
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 1: so that the next woman who needs an abortion can

1384
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 1: have one if you can, you know. And that's and

1385
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: that's where we're gonna leave it today with Jane in

1386
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: their heyday. They're all women collective providing safely legal abortions

1387
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: and to the people of Chicago, which is it's pretty

1388
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: freaking cool. Yes, do you have any like final thoughts

1389
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: for today or or do you want to I'm just

1390
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 1: so excited that we're talking more about this. I discovering

1391
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: all these things being on an intersectional filminist show and

1392
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 1: coming to like, yes, let's keep talking about it. This

1393
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,640
Speaker 1: is amazing. I love it. But yeah, but being realistic

1394
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 1: about you know, it wasn't glamour and it wasn't as

1395
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 1: easy obviously as it should be. And this is the

1396
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: problem when we have limited access or no access and

1397
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 1: then when we start criminalizing people were trying to just

1398
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: live Like that's just But I'm excited that we are

1399
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: talking about Yeah, and I really want to, like, whenever possible,

1400
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: I really want to do like a warts and all

1401
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: version of the show, because like when you hold up

1402
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: people as heroes and like this person was perfect and

1403
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 1: you're like, well, I'm not perfect. I can't be a hero,

1404
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like no, like these people like

1405
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 1: got lots of things wrong and they just did amazing

1406
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: shit anyway, um right, and and nobody is perfect besides dogs, correct,

1407
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: besides dogs. And my dog's a dick but I love her.

1408
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, on the top of the back that I'm honest,

1409
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: We're honest about it. But yeah, she's the best part perfect. Yeah. Sure,

1410
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: So if he gets angrier and angrier at the idea

1411
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 1: that the dog might not be perfect, don't you can't

1412
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: say it. I don't see it. But yeah, like I

1413
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: think in that's the thing is like, honestly, what comes

1414
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: down to I love discovering and I know we're gonna

1415
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: keep talking about it, but about these cool people is

1416
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: that it wasn't that they wanted to be a hero.

1417
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: And that they didn't do anything wrong before or don't

1418
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: have wrong perspectives or may have misspoke. Uh, it's just

1419
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 1: that they saw a need and they did something about it.

1420
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: And that's what we get to celebrate totally, and you

1421
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,719
Speaker 1: can you can celebrate more with us on the part

1422
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: two of this two part series on Wednesday, when we're

1423
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 1: gonna talk in more detail about exactly what services they

1424
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: offered and how it all went down. Um, and some

1425
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 1: of the other people who have taken up the torch

1426
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: in the decades since them. Samantha, anything you want to

1427
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: plug before we head out? Oh yeah, So if this

1428
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,679
Speaker 1: interest you and you like to learn more about women

1429
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,719
Speaker 1: in history and the intersectionality of it all, you should

1430
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: come listen to Stuff Mom Never Told You, which you

1431
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,719
Speaker 1: can also find on the I Heart Radio app or

1432
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. You can follow us Stuff

1433
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You on Twitter and on Instagram. You

1434
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: can also follow me McVeigh sayum, I believe is my

1435
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: Instagram and then Sam McVeigh on Twitter. Y'all, I'm struggling.

1436
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm not really active, but sometimes I exist. Um. There's

1437
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 1: a very cute dog picture on your Instagram where you're

1438
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: wearing matching Halloween not fits. So that's that's what I

1439
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 1: would like to plug at the end. Here is that

1440
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: photo your pumpkins? Yeah? Anyways, well we'll see, we'll see.

1441
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: We'll see you all Wednesday. Yeah. Cool People Who Did

1442
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For

1443
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1444
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

1445
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1446
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: your podcasts.