Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from stuff
Speaker 1: dot com. Hello again, everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff.
Speaker 1: My name is Chris Polette and I am an editor
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across from me
Speaker 1: as usual, this star of stage and screen, the inimitable
Speaker 1: senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Hey there, that's my that's my
Speaker 1: disaffected Hollywood voice. Uh now, right off the bat, we've
Speaker 1: talked about Windows eight before. Yes, we know that, yes,
Speaker 1: so don't write in. But when we talked about Windows eight,
Speaker 1: it was from whatever little information we could glean at
Speaker 1: the time, because we had not had any experience really
Speaker 1: using Windows eight, at least not much. I think we had.
Speaker 1: You had I think downloaded an early, early early build
Speaker 1: of Windows at to developer build. Yes, and that was
Speaker 1: all we had had a chance to play with. But
Speaker 1: since then we have had a chance to a with
Speaker 1: the more or less full version of Windows eight. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: by the time this podcast goes out, Windows eight will
Speaker 1: have been released to the wild in the wild, to
Speaker 1: the wild wild people will be using Windows eight by
Speaker 1: the time this podcast goes live, But we're recording it
Speaker 1: the week before that happens. Ye, And uh, you know
Speaker 1: I am one of those people that I've learned sort
Speaker 1: of from past experience that maybe you don't want to
Speaker 1: stand in line for the brand new operating system the
Speaker 1: first day it comes out. It might be better to
Speaker 1: see what happens and let them release an update before
Speaker 1: you go ahead and put it on there. Because it
Speaker 1: seems like there's and it doesn't seem to matter who
Speaker 1: it's coming from. This just computer operating systems in general.
Speaker 1: It's agnostic as far as as operating systems go, in
Speaker 1: the sense that there's only there's so much testing you
Speaker 1: can do during the development of an operating system, but
Speaker 1: the the even the most rigorous testing uh environment is
Speaker 1: not going to be able to account for every single
Speaker 1: way people use their computers and the software they use
Speaker 1: in the hardware they use. So often in the early
Speaker 1: days of any operating system being released, you'll hear problems
Speaker 1: about or people complain about problems like certain software doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to work with that operating system, or it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to recognize particular types of hardware You plug it
Speaker 1: in and like the driver is missing, so you can't
Speaker 1: use this one particular kind of hardware like a microphone
Speaker 1: or mixer or that's the kind of stuff that I
Speaker 1: always worry about. I was writing a paper for school,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to go ahead and install the new
Speaker 1: operating system, and now I can't print. Yeah, that can happen,
Speaker 1: so but but feeling that, I mean, that's just a
Speaker 1: problem that is that goes with the territory with any
Speaker 1: new operating system. We wanted to talk more about what
Speaker 1: makes Windows eight different, and uh, it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: dramatic departure from previous versions of Windows. If you are
Speaker 1: familiar with the the way Windows tends to look, that's
Speaker 1: it's a graphic user interface and has been for a
Speaker 1: couple of decades now. Um it's uh, you know, you're
Speaker 1: you're used to things like the start button at the
Speaker 1: in the bottom, which was introduced what was that Windows
Speaker 1: ninety five or I remember it being in wind Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's been around for a while and it's gone now.
Speaker 1: So that's so long since I've used Windows three point
Speaker 1: x that I write, I don't even remember what. I
Speaker 1: just remember all the tiles or or the icons rather tiles,
Speaker 1: but the icons that you would click on. So you know,
Speaker 1: Windows eight still has a desktop mode, although the start
Speaker 1: button has gone from it. UM, so if you were
Speaker 1: used to the start button, be prepared to lose it
Speaker 1: right it's gone. But it also the probably the thing
Speaker 1: that's gotten the most attention is the the tiled interface
Speaker 1: that Windows eight has, the Windows eight interface that you
Speaker 1: can when you look at you just know this thing
Speaker 1: was made for touch screen devices. You look at and
Speaker 1: you're like, this is It's clear that these are the
Speaker 1: kind of icons where if this were a touch screen
Speaker 1: I would touch that part of the screen and the
Speaker 1: app would launch. Uh, And in fact that is the case.
Speaker 1: It is designed so that will will work both with
Speaker 1: touch screen interface devices or displays and with the more
Speaker 1: traditional keyboard and mouse interface. UM, you can do either.
Speaker 1: I think it's with our our limited experience with it,
Speaker 1: I would say that I would imagine there's going to
Speaker 1: be quite a learning curve for people who adopt this,
Speaker 1: who are especially people who are really used to older
Speaker 1: versions of Windows. It's going to take time to get
Speaker 1: to a familiarity with this oberating system where they feel
Speaker 1: they can navigate through it seamlessly, particularly if they're using
Speaker 1: a keyboard and mouse. It's not that it's impossible, it's
Speaker 1: not that Windows has made it uh ungainly or anything.
Speaker 1: It's just so different from what you knew before that
Speaker 1: it's going to take time to learn all those tricks
Speaker 1: and it may be a little frustrating at first. Now,
Speaker 1: if you have a touch screen device or touch screen display,
Speaker 1: it's going to feel pretty natural because it's got this,
Speaker 1: like I said, this tiled approach to laying out all
Speaker 1: the apps, and you navigate the way I guess the
Speaker 1: way you navigate just about any touch screen interface. At
Speaker 1: this point, you touch the screen, you can drag your
Speaker 1: finger one way or the other and it moves the
Speaker 1: tiles accordingly. And then by tapping on a tile, you
Speaker 1: open up the the app or feature or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And so I mean it's very intuitive from a touch perspective,
Speaker 1: but using the mouse and keyboard, like I said, it's
Speaker 1: going to it's gonna take some time for people to
Speaker 1: adjust to the different layout and the different navigation scheme. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the uh Microsoft really got into the navigation and how
Speaker 1: people are going to be using this, and they, um,
Speaker 1: it's clear that they were thinking about something that could
Speaker 1: be cross hardware. Um, you know, it could be used
Speaker 1: on a computer, could be used on a mobile device. Um.
Speaker 1: And frankly, you know, if you look at the form
Speaker 1: factor of screens of all types, we've really gone, you know,
Speaker 1: towards the sixteen by nine ratio as opposed to the
Speaker 1: four by three, which four by three is like a
Speaker 1: standard definition TV when you're looking at it in the
Speaker 1: sixteen by nine is the um the way an HD
Speaker 1: TV looks. So it's you know, uh, longer, more rectangular,
Speaker 1: less square, more of a wide screen. Look. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I mean our phones look like that, tablets look like that. UM,
Speaker 1: computer monitors look like that. Laptops have have developed you know,
Speaker 1: according to that too, So uh it makes a lot
Speaker 1: more sense, um, to have the operating system be designed
Speaker 1: with that in mind. And UM, they've really um, you know,
Speaker 1: talking about the earlier release that we had a chance
Speaker 1: to play with some quite some time ago. Now, UM,
Speaker 1: Microsoft has been really um outgoing about its efforts to
Speaker 1: woo the developers because you know, they do have a
Speaker 1: strong relationship with their developers. And um they's subtle, subtle,
Speaker 1: little references to a very popular video on YouTube, which
Speaker 1: is not so subtle. But no, they've they've they've really
Speaker 1: reached out and said, look, these are guidelines that we've
Speaker 1: uh that we've come up with usability guidelines, navigation guidelines.
Speaker 1: We really think if you design your applications to work
Speaker 1: with this in mind, it will be a positive experience.
Speaker 1: And the the the apps that we had a chance
Speaker 1: to play around with really did you know, it wasn't seamless,
Speaker 1: but there was very little seam if you will, I mean,
Speaker 1: they really did fit in with the environment. Pardon me,
Speaker 1: wise backed the table with my n What's what's interesting
Speaker 1: also is that you know, bringing the world of mobile
Speaker 1: with the world of PC together is challenging on multiple fronts.
Speaker 1: Um One, you have to design hardware that is capable
Speaker 1: of keeping up with like mobile hardware that's capable of
Speaker 1: keeping up with what we're used to from a PC,
Speaker 1: whether it's a laptop or desktop. You also have to
Speaker 1: factor in, well, the input for a tablet tends to
Speaker 1: be very different than the input for a computer, So
Speaker 1: how do we account for that. For apps that are
Speaker 1: designed for touch, there's no problem, you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: designed with the tablet form factor in mind. But what
Speaker 1: about those desktop applications that are not designed for touch interface,
Speaker 1: at least not not primarily designed for touch interface? How
Speaker 1: do you get around that and it's it's Windows eight
Speaker 1: is a is goes a long way to trying to
Speaker 1: reckon style all of that. Now, we haven't had chance
Speaker 1: to really play with all the different stuff that we
Speaker 1: would normally use on a Windows machine. For example, Office,
Speaker 1: which is you know, that's productivity software. And a lot
Speaker 1: of people know what Microsoft You know they've used Microsoft Office.
Speaker 1: It's word and Excel and power Point, things like that. Uh,
Speaker 1: I've used those quite a bit on computers with the
Speaker 1: mouse and keyboard combinations. I'm very familiar with that. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that would be like on a tablet
Speaker 1: if I did not have a peripheral devices because most
Speaker 1: tablets nowadays will support peripheral devices, whether it's through Bluetooth
Speaker 1: or USB or whatever. But you can often connect to
Speaker 1: a tablet something like a keyboard and a mouse, or
Speaker 1: it will have a docking station where you can connect
Speaker 1: everything through the docking station to the tablet and it
Speaker 1: it becomes essentially like a very lightweight laptop computer. It's
Speaker 1: just that all the elements detached from each other. Um.
Speaker 1: Now in that case, you would I could see using
Speaker 1: those those uh, those pieces of software in essentially the
Speaker 1: same way you would if it were a true laptop
Speaker 1: or PC. Without them, I'm not sure how I would
Speaker 1: use them. Uh. It's not to say that they're unusable.
Speaker 1: I just haven't had that experience. But that's one of
Speaker 1: the challenges that Microsoft faces with Windows eight and the
Speaker 1: design of an operating system that can work on both
Speaker 1: mobile and and PC platforms is how do you make
Speaker 1: sure that you you are catering to both audiences without
Speaker 1: sacrificing too much for either one. Because if you cater
Speaker 1: too much on the tablet side, everyone who uses the
Speaker 1: desktop or laptop version of the the operating system is
Speaker 1: going to feel like things are too difficult to do
Speaker 1: in that form factor to just by that operating system, right,
Speaker 1: So balancing that is really tricky, and I think they
Speaker 1: did a pretty good job with it. We did practice
Speaker 1: navigating through Windows eight using only the mouse and keyboard,
Speaker 1: so even though we were we were using it on
Speaker 1: a tablet. We had a tablet device that had Windows
Speaker 1: eight loaded on it that we tried to play with.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm just gonna go ahead and tell
Speaker 1: you it was not the surface. I really want to
Speaker 1: play with a surface tablet, but I have not had
Speaker 1: that opportunity yet, at least as of the recording of
Speaker 1: this podcast. Who knows by the time between the wind
Speaker 1: is recorded when it launches, I'm gonna guess I still
Speaker 1: haven't really played with one, but unless there's a store
Speaker 1: that happens to have one. Anyway, we we did navigate
Speaker 1: with just the keyboard and mouse, and it took some
Speaker 1: even for us. It took some time for us to
Speaker 1: kind of just even get the basics. But once we
Speaker 1: got the basis right, Okay, I understand how this works. Now.
Speaker 1: It's definitely one of those things where I'd have to
Speaker 1: train my brain to catch up to make this feel natural.
Speaker 1: But you know, we could definitely see how to get
Speaker 1: around whether or not it's easy enough for the average
Speaker 1: user so that that level of frustration isn't overwhelming. I
Speaker 1: don't know it'll be. That will be a real test
Speaker 1: of the operating system. It'll especially once people if people
Speaker 1: want to go to the desktop to use some of
Speaker 1: the more robust programs, because as I understand it, things
Speaker 1: like the productivity software of Office would be in the
Speaker 1: desktop version of the view, not the Windows eight interface
Speaker 1: version of the view. So if you wanted to open
Speaker 1: up Word, you would go into the desktop and then
Speaker 1: open it up that way, and you would, you know,
Speaker 1: do all your your work in there. And now they
Speaker 1: do have some uh they have an upcoming version of
Speaker 1: of Office that's going to incorporate touch commands as well
Speaker 1: as your regular keyboard and mouse commands. But even then,
Speaker 1: I think it's all relegated to the if I may
Speaker 1: be wrong about this, but I think it's all relegated
Speaker 1: to the desktop version of the view of Microsoft date,
Speaker 1: not the interface, not the tiled interface. Um on. One
Speaker 1: thing that I'm sorry to all I was gonna say
Speaker 1: is that this should not be confused with there are
Speaker 1: two different versions of this tiled interface coming out. There's
Speaker 1: Windows are T and there's Windows eight. And Windows are
Speaker 1: T is designed for mobile devices that are on the
Speaker 1: lower powered end of the spectrum. So these are ones
Speaker 1: that that tiled interface is what you get, and that's
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's mainly meant to to compete in
Speaker 1: the tablet market as we understand it today, so that
Speaker 1: being things like the iPad and Android tablets where they
Speaker 1: are running uh, simplified versions of software so that the
Speaker 1: software doesn't tend to be as robust as a full
Speaker 1: PC program would be you know, they're there. They're more
Speaker 1: like the apps that we've become accustomed to over the
Speaker 1: last few years. Windows eight, the full version of Windows eight,
Speaker 1: is something that is running on higher end tablets as
Speaker 1: well as PCs and laptops. That would be uh, the
Speaker 1: one that has the desktop view and can run these
Speaker 1: more robust programs like Microsoft Office. Yeah, and UM yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good point because they've kind of gone
Speaker 1: in the other direction to um to have some of
Speaker 1: the elements of Microsoft Office bleed over into the operating system. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've noticed this or not been
Speaker 1: In opening a couple of the Windows just in Windows Explorer,
Speaker 1: I noticed that the ribbon interface from Office, which Jonathan
Speaker 1: loves so much, by the way, um, that appears at
Speaker 1: the top of the screen with all your little uh
Speaker 1: gadgets and gizmos a plenty. Um, and who's it some
Speaker 1: webs at skill Lore. Um. The that same in your
Speaker 1: faces appearing in other parts of Windows at least in there.
Speaker 1: So people who are familiar with Office are going to
Speaker 1: be familiar with that part of the operating system as
Speaker 1: a whole, with that part of the interface as a whole.
Speaker 1: So I think I finally figured that ribbon thing out.
Speaker 1: Now it's about time form you change with the Yeah,
Speaker 1: now that that is something that I feel a lot
Speaker 1: of empathy toward users who get frustrated with major changes
Speaker 1: in operating systems or any kind of software, because when
Speaker 1: you become accustomed to something and you really have streamlined
Speaker 1: your approach to using a particular piece of software, it
Speaker 1: does become a bit of a frustration when that changes
Speaker 1: so dramatically as to interrupt that flow. And I mean
Speaker 1: this is not this is not unique to Windows or
Speaker 1: really to Microsoft at all. This is something that goes
Speaker 1: across all platforms, all software, all operating systems, really any product.
Speaker 1: When you get down to it, is that when you
Speaker 1: get used to the way something is and then get
Speaker 1: the new thing, that's even if it's demonstrably better than
Speaker 1: the old thing, if it's different enough you start to
Speaker 1: complain about, I can't find anything on this this because
Speaker 1: it's they've changed where everything is. Um So I'm not
Speaker 1: immune to that. Yeah. Well, Apple has had the same
Speaker 1: thing going on too with um uh. One of the things,
Speaker 1: the example that popped into my mind was the recent
Speaker 1: change of the scroll direction with a scrolling mouse. We
Speaker 1: flipped it so that exactly so if you, you know,
Speaker 1: use your iPad and you now you you go through
Speaker 1: your email and then you go to your computer, you
Speaker 1: don't scroll in the opposite direction. And people complained about that,
Speaker 1: and of course Apple made it possible for you to
Speaker 1: go into your your system preferences and it off and
Speaker 1: make it make it the traditional way. But people were
Speaker 1: complaining about that thing. And you can you can tell,
Speaker 1: I mean the Windows ahead, I'm sorry it with Windows eight,
Speaker 1: with the the option for the more touchscreen oriented layout
Speaker 1: even on a computer, and uh, the mac os appearing
Speaker 1: more like iOS that that um computer and operating system
Speaker 1: manufacturers are seeing that the world's bleeding over into one another.
Speaker 1: That you expect computer functionality from a tablet or a smartphone,
Speaker 1: and you expect navigation to work the same on on both,
Speaker 1: and beyond that that you expect to be able to
Speaker 1: work on the same stuff from one platform to the
Speaker 1: next in a in a seamless a way as possible.
Speaker 1: So this brings in the whole idea of the cloud
Speaker 1: in there as well, so that when you are saving
Speaker 1: a project, whatever it may be, in whatever program you're
Speaker 1: thinking about that when you put down one piece of
Speaker 1: technology and pick up another, that you are able to
Speaker 1: go right back into that project uninterrupted as if you
Speaker 1: have been working on the same platform the entire time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a powerful experience. Anyone who has had that
Speaker 1: where they you know, something as simple as watching a
Speaker 1: video on Let's say you pull up a really long video,
Speaker 1: like a movie on your laptop and you're watching a
Speaker 1: bit of it, and then you have to take a
Speaker 1: bus ride somewhere, and it's a long bus ride, so
Speaker 1: you pull up your your phone and you get your
Speaker 1: your earbuds in because you're being nice and you're not
Speaker 1: listening to something so that the entire bus has to
Speaker 1: hear you watch Independence Day you um, you pull it
Speaker 1: up in it and because you're using this this uh
Speaker 1: service that goes across multiple platforms, it pulls it up
Speaker 1: right where you left off when you were watching on
Speaker 1: the PC, and you continue watch again. Then you get
Speaker 1: home and you think, oh, well, I've got this set
Speaker 1: top box connected to my television and there's the last
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes the movie and I need to see uh
Speaker 1: Quaid go up and blow himself up inside the giant
Speaker 1: spaceship spoiler alert. Um, then you know you can you
Speaker 1: can load that up. And because again it's a service
Speaker 1: that goes across these multiple platforms, it picks up right
Speaker 1: where you left off on the phone. That's a great experience,
Speaker 1: and I mean that's that's the one that I think
Speaker 1: everyone uses as an example, like you're listening to music
Speaker 1: or you're watching a movie and you're able to move
Speaker 1: from one device to another and continue that experience as
Speaker 1: always shown as being completely seamless, which in reality never happens.
Speaker 1: There's always there's always buffering, there's there's lots of things
Speaker 1: that go into that, but you know, the idea is there. Well,
Speaker 1: the same thing is true with these operating systems like
Speaker 1: Windows eight, where the idea is to try and have
Speaker 1: the mobile world and PC world together so that you
Speaker 1: can have an uninterrupted experience and whatever you're working in.
Speaker 1: So that way, if you need to pick up and
Speaker 1: go and you want to do some minor changes to
Speaker 1: something on a tablet that you had been working on
Speaker 1: in a PC, you have that option and UH. And
Speaker 1: so that requires a very robe bust operating system that
Speaker 1: is UH that can be used in multiple form factors
Speaker 1: It's also true that in upcoming there there are more
Speaker 1: and more laptops and even desktop displays coming out they
Speaker 1: have touch screen functionality built into them. I do not
Speaker 1: own any of these. I don't have a touch screen display.
Speaker 1: I don't have a laptop with a touch screen monitor.
Speaker 1: But um, but imagine they're pretty pricey for for most
Speaker 1: people at this point. Yeah, but they have been coming on.
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember seeing a few of them a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago at c E S, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure I'll see a lot more of them at the
Speaker 1: c E S. Uh. I don't know. It may very
Speaker 1: well be that the future of operating systems requires that
Speaker 1: kind of hardware to be optimal right for you to
Speaker 1: get the most out of it. But again, the goal
Speaker 1: that Microsoft had was to treat create an operating system that,
Speaker 1: no matter what for M you were using UH to
Speaker 1: run the operating system on, you would be able to
Speaker 1: navigate through it as easily as possible. It's it's a
Speaker 1: challenging thing because it's so fundamentally different, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean that was something that Apple really paid attention to
Speaker 1: in the development of the iPhone and the iPod Touch,
Speaker 1: and then later the iPad was that, how do we
Speaker 1: design a an operating system that is easy and intuitive?
Speaker 1: And uh, do we you know, how much attention do
Speaker 1: we pay to our uh computer version of that operating system,
Speaker 1: like do do we model it after a computer reversion?
Speaker 1: And Apple's decision was to depart dramatically from the computer
Speaker 1: operating system. Uh. Microsoft's decision is more to create a
Speaker 1: an experience that can work across all of it, as
Speaker 1: opposed to let's do something specifically for this form factor
Speaker 1: and only this form factor. Yeah. Microsoft, of course is
Speaker 1: uh the still very much the operating system of choice
Speaker 1: for businesses and very very popular among enterprise applications. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I would I would say that it's likely that
Speaker 1: with the release of the new Office Suite and the
Speaker 1: the cross hardware capabilities of the operating system, they're they're
Speaker 1: planning on making a big push to be the operating
Speaker 1: system with Windows eight for the for the enterprise market,
Speaker 1: you know. Plus with the hybrid computers coming out now,
Speaker 1: to the laptops that have a removable screen that turns
Speaker 1: into a tablet or they flip around with a slate, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they you know, these are intended to you know, to
Speaker 1: function in multiple modes and uh, you know previously the uh,
Speaker 1: the Lenovo that you saw at CES a couple of
Speaker 1: years to go, um the U one yeah, um, when
Speaker 1: you pulled the you know, the screen out and it
Speaker 1: became a tablet, it ran on Linux, it switched operating systems.
Speaker 1: When it was in laptop form, it was running a
Speaker 1: version of Windows, and then you detached the screen and
Speaker 1: it would switch to a Linux based operating system. The
Speaker 1: idea trying again trying to maintain the seamless approach as
Speaker 1: much as possible, so that if you were working on
Speaker 1: something in Windows and then you detached the screen, it
Speaker 1: would open up a comparable application within Linux and try
Speaker 1: to continue that experience, which, as I'm sure you can
Speaker 1: all imagine, is not an easy thing to do, nor
Speaker 1: was it completely successful. Right, Yeah, so tough. That's a
Speaker 1: tough thing. And then they changed it, I think with
Speaker 1: going to an Android based approach. I think in a
Speaker 1: later version it's still never made it to market in
Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, but this but but having Windows
Speaker 1: eight be able to uh uh you know, function in
Speaker 1: either mode, it's going to make that a lot more possible,
Speaker 1: and they'll be able to make that push and I
Speaker 1: think you're you're going to see developers working on more
Speaker 1: productivity uh stuff. That's what you're going to see in
Speaker 1: the Windows Store earlier. And that's actually we hadn't talked
Speaker 1: about the Windows Store really, which is is going to
Speaker 1: be the marketplace for Windows apps, right. So, UM, to
Speaker 1: to find stuff, you would go to the Windows Store
Speaker 1: and they'll have it organized by category. They'll have it organized.
Speaker 1: Uh you can do searches things like that to find
Speaker 1: the stuff that you need to find. Uh. The app
Speaker 1: development process is very well documented on Microsoft. You can
Speaker 1: find out lots of information if you are interested in
Speaker 1: building apps for the Windows eight platform. Um, they talk
Speaker 1: a lot about the fact that you know, Chris talked
Speaker 1: about this earlier. They Microsoft has done a lot of
Speaker 1: research on how people use tablets, and they can even
Speaker 1: they share that research with developers. So if you're a
Speaker 1: developer and you want to create an app that has uh,
Speaker 1: you know it's you know, you've got a primary function
Speaker 1: for that app, as well as some others secondary or
Speaker 1: tertiary functions. Uh, you can look at that research and see, oh,
Speaker 1: this is how people use tablets, this is how they
Speaker 1: typically hold them. It makes most sense for me to
Speaker 1: put the primary feature of my app in this location
Speaker 1: because it will be the most convenient for the user.
Speaker 1: You know. That's the kind of research Microsoft has done
Speaker 1: so that developers can take some of the guesswork out
Speaker 1: and not have to build out something tested, then totally
Speaker 1: redesign it and build it a different way if their
Speaker 1: first build doesn't seem to be you know, optimally laid
Speaker 1: out for the user. They have something called the grid,
Speaker 1: which is this. Uh. This, it's kind of a way
Speaker 1: of aligning your app. Like once you've design and that
Speaker 1: you can you can line it up so that is
Speaker 1: attractive and effective. Uh and and then it will work
Speaker 1: well within the Windows eight operating system for the users.
Speaker 1: That is where Tron fights for the users into line.
Speaker 1: Uh there's uh, yeah, there's yeah, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: lot of resources out there, and and like there's one
Speaker 1: that Chris and I looked at even about navigating, you know,
Speaker 1: how to how to design the navigation of your app,
Speaker 1: and it gave lots of high level approaches to you know,
Speaker 1: ways you could design your app so that the user
Speaker 1: can navigate through it and find what he or she wants.
Speaker 1: And I mean it's just obvious that they've tried to
Speaker 1: build as many resources for developers as possible so that
Speaker 1: people can go out there and build great apps. And and
Speaker 1: and of course that's important. I mean, that's important for
Speaker 1: Microsoft if if for Windows eight to well, it needs
Speaker 1: to have really great apps to show off within its interface.
Speaker 1: You know, if if if all the apps that come
Speaker 1: out are just sort of half hearted attempts, that does
Speaker 1: not reflect well on Windows eight. Even if the operatings
Speaker 1: Excuse me, but even if the operating system itself is uh, phenomenal,
Speaker 1: if the apps aren't any good, then that's what people
Speaker 1: are going to remember. So Microsoft's really gone out of
Speaker 1: the way to try and give developers a head start
Speaker 1: for creating things specifically for the Windows eight environment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's um. It's interesting to note too that the developing
Speaker 1: for the language could mean one of really kind of
Speaker 1: a couple different things. Um. You could be using the
Speaker 1: traditional languages of computer programming like C plus plus um
Speaker 1: um and C sharp, and that's what I sort of
Speaker 1: think of when I think of programming. I'm thinking you're
Speaker 1: getting into that. But they also use a lot of
Speaker 1: web web languages to they're they're promoting the use of
Speaker 1: HTML five along with JavaScript and and CSS to complement
Speaker 1: the the h T M l UM, which of course
Speaker 1: you know is one of the rising methods of creating
Speaker 1: web apps to these days. So you know, if you
Speaker 1: are a UM, if you are a web web developer,
Speaker 1: you may find yourself able to create apps for Windows
Speaker 1: eight as well. Right depending on what you needed to do,
Speaker 1: you may be having to get into. So let's say,
Speaker 1: let's say you have a website about movie news and rumors,
Speaker 1: and you've got this this website and you thought, well,
Speaker 1: what if we created an app where people could launch
Speaker 1: the app and read the top stories and breaking news
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, then you know, building that
Speaker 1: app in HTML five is probably going to be a
Speaker 1: lot easier for you. One you're already going to be
Speaker 1: familiar with HTML, but too you will be able to
Speaker 1: port over a lot of the content that you want
Speaker 1: to showcase in this app because it was built on HTML.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to convert anything, you don't have
Speaker 1: to build anything new in that sense, so a lot
Speaker 1: of your work has already done for you. And that's uh.
Speaker 1: That's another thing about the resources. They do go into
Speaker 1: detail about what the different languages are and even give
Speaker 1: suggestions over you know, when to use each family of
Speaker 1: languages depending on your expertise and what you want your
Speaker 1: app to do. And clearly, someone who's building a game
Speaker 1: is going to be looking at languages very differently than
Speaker 1: someone who wants to port a web a web page
Speaker 1: experience into a web app experience. So uh yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean the other thing was that Chris and I
Speaker 1: were not web developers, and we don't. We've done some programming,
Speaker 1: but that was for me that was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the last time I actually sat down
Speaker 1: to program something. So the what I'm getting at is
Speaker 1: that the information that was laid out was very easily
Speaker 1: understandable for me, and that's from someone who has not
Speaker 1: done any programming in a very long time and has
Speaker 1: not kept up with it frankly. So um, that was
Speaker 1: something I appreciated, was the fact that it was easy
Speaker 1: to understand. Yeah, just just just ask developers. The easier
Speaker 1: it is to program for a platform, you know, the
Speaker 1: more you know worthwhile, it seems if you have to
Speaker 1: go way out of your way to learn some obscure
Speaker 1: programming language just for this one operating system, especially for
Speaker 1: something that you know, you aren't. You can't be sure
Speaker 1: what the success rate is going to be. Then that
Speaker 1: tends to make people shy away from developing, understandably, because
Speaker 1: you're you have a limited amount of time and resources
Speaker 1: to dedicate to this sort of stuff, so you wanna
Speaker 1: you want to aim for, um, the the best targets possible. UM.
Speaker 1: With Windows eight, it's still very early, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to say what the success rate is going
Speaker 1: to be. I mean, Microsoft has had some some great
Speaker 1: success in the operating system arena. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: a huge understatement, but they've also had some pretty well
Speaker 1: publicized missteps. Well yeah, and and this cough cough. Well,
Speaker 1: and of course they've they rectified a lot of that,
Speaker 1: but the initial release, right, The problem was that the
Speaker 1: initial release of Vista had enough problems in it, and
Speaker 1: it was a big enough change from previous versions of
Speaker 1: Windows to really upset people. And even though Microsoft did
Speaker 1: address many, if not most, of those problems by the
Speaker 1: time that was in place, the damage had been done
Speaker 1: because that early response was so negative that to this day,
Speaker 1: Vista has that stigma attached to it, even though the
Speaker 1: later versions of the operating system were very different from
Speaker 1: those first releases. So a lot of people skipped Visa
Speaker 1: entirely and waited for Windows seven before, or they stuck
Speaker 1: with Windows XP UM because they had heard so many
Speaker 1: bad things about Vista even you know, and by the
Speaker 1: time they had fixed it, it it was too late. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they Microsoft has a problem in a way because so
Speaker 1: many people are sticking with XP even now. UM that
Speaker 1: even even with the success of Windows seven, I think
Speaker 1: I would go so far as to say that pretty
Speaker 1: much everything I've read about Windows seven is very positive.
Speaker 1: I've had positive experiences when I've used it, um and
Speaker 1: I like the operating system. But people say the same
Speaker 1: kinds of things about Windows XP because it just it
Speaker 1: just works. And then that that's you know, people are
Speaker 1: seeing that as a barrier to entry for Windows eight.
Speaker 1: So if you've waited, you've skipped Vista, you've skipped Windows seven,
Speaker 1: and you say, oh, Windows eight looks kind of interesting,
Speaker 1: it's going to be much a much more dramatic change
Speaker 1: for you than it would be for somebody who's been
Speaker 1: using Windows seven. Right, and and to keep this in perspective,
Speaker 1: one of the challenges of being the the choice operating
Speaker 1: system among enterprises is that when you update your operating system,
Speaker 1: you know that your customer base is not going to
Speaker 1: adopt it that quickly, at least not most of them,
Speaker 1: because it's a it's a big deal for a company
Speaker 1: to upgrade an operating system. I mean, especially if all
Speaker 1: the I T people in your your business are well
Speaker 1: trained on that operating system right there, just have to
Speaker 1: get retrained on a new one. It's that's a lot
Speaker 1: of time, it's a lot of money. You have to
Speaker 1: you have to gain new knowledge because you have to
Speaker 1: know how to support the new operating system. You have
Speaker 1: to make sure that any of the mission critical software
Speaker 1: you runs is still operational on that new operating system.
Speaker 1: You may have some legacy software that you cannot port
Speaker 1: over to a new operating system. Well guess what this
Speaker 1: one this one program works in Windows three point one
Speaker 1: and that's it. Well, that means we have to keep
Speaker 1: this machine running on Windows three point one because we
Speaker 1: have to have access to this um software. And in business,
Speaker 1: I went to just the other day, had a and
Speaker 1: I looked at it. It It was a Windows screen because
Speaker 1: that way was they were using a very specialized piece
Speaker 1: of software. Right, So that's a big problem. And also
Speaker 1: just the logistics if you are if if you're running
Speaker 1: a large company and you've got a lot of employees
Speaker 1: and every employee has a computer, you know, rolling out that,
Speaker 1: you know, getting the licenses, and then rolling out the
Speaker 1: operating system to each of those machines. This is a
Speaker 1: process that tends to take quite some time per machine,
Speaker 1: or it can take quite some time per machine, depending
Speaker 1: on the machine. Um, it's just it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot more complicated than UH and average
Speaker 1: consumer saying, oh, that operating system looks really cool. I'm
Speaker 1: in the I'm in the the market for a new computer,
Speaker 1: so I'll just go out and buy one of those.
Speaker 1: That's a lot easier for us as consumers than it
Speaker 1: is for businesses. And with Microsoft having so much UH
Speaker 1: support in the enterprise realm, it's, um, you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's one of the big challenges. You know. It's it's
Speaker 1: a great thing to say, like, you know, businesses depend
Speaker 1: on our operating system. That's a great story to tell,
Speaker 1: but it it presents a whole realm of challenges that
Speaker 1: aren't applicable to a company that's really just going after
Speaker 1: the average consumer. And one of those one of the
Speaker 1: recent changes for Windows eight two, one of the most
Speaker 1: I think interesting because it's well, for one thing, it's
Speaker 1: kind of fun um and at the same time sort
Speaker 1: of an innovative security feature or intended security feature. Is
Speaker 1: the ability for your machine to recognize your face when
Speaker 1: you sit down in front of it. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: one of the things we talk about about the Xbox
Speaker 1: and connect. Hey it's you, which isn't really an issue
Speaker 1: when you're playing a game, your difficulty levels too easy.
Speaker 1: But uh, but when you are using your company's computer,
Speaker 1: you have proprietary information that they don't want to get out,
Speaker 1: and a photo of your face will work just as
Speaker 1: well as your face. That's a problem. And Jonathan, I
Speaker 1: have just read a report that the facial recognition uh
Speaker 1: security software and Windows eight is a little uh insecure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might be one of those things where again, uh,
Speaker 1: a corporation may just end up disabling it or forbidding
Speaker 1: people from using that as a means of accessing the computer,
Speaker 1: so that instead you use a standard strong password in
Speaker 1: order to access it or whatever. Um you know, retinal
Speaker 1: scan fingerprints could happen. I use, I use, I use
Speaker 1: a fingerprint scanner for one of my machines. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: not the one that I currently have in front of me,
Speaker 1: that one I actually use a strong password for. But uh,
Speaker 1: they yeah, that's it's one of those things where, again,
Speaker 1: the certain features are built in I think for convenience,
Speaker 1: and it may work well for one segment of the market,
Speaker 1: that being consumers who are you know, just it's just
Speaker 1: their own personal machine and they're not you know, perhaps
Speaker 1: the the Uh, it's not as big a target for
Speaker 1: a hacker or someone else to to try and get
Speaker 1: access to it as opposed to a corporate machine that
Speaker 1: might have some truly valuable information on it. Uh. I
Speaker 1: would say that that that facial recognition is made more
Speaker 1: for again the general consumer. Oh, I think so. But
Speaker 1: you know, if you were tempted to turn that on
Speaker 1: for your work computer, your I T professional may come
Speaker 1: by and shake kids her fist at you and say,
Speaker 1: do not do that. That is against the rules. Um,
Speaker 1: there will have to be a rule for it, probably,
Speaker 1: But again, these are one of those things where new
Speaker 1: technology comes out gives us some some new ways of
Speaker 1: accessing our information. Sometimes they work great, and sometimes there
Speaker 1: are ways around that. So uh, it's it's to be expected. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. But but by and large I really
Speaker 1: liked having the opportunity to fiddle with it for a
Speaker 1: couple of hours just to see, you know, how how
Speaker 1: it's going to work, how the the interaction between the
Speaker 1: touch screens style interface versus the desktop style interface, UM
Speaker 1: would work. And it was. It was. It flowed pretty well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was. It was really pretty. Oh, it's very pretty.
Speaker 1: And and we were again we were using it on
Speaker 1: a tablet, so it was a tablet that did run
Speaker 1: both the desktop and the tiled version of Windows uh.
Speaker 1: And it was not difficult to navigate between the two
Speaker 1: um uh. But yeah, I mean, even even on a
Speaker 1: form factor like that, because most of us think of
Speaker 1: tablets as being significantly underpowered to compare to desktops or whatever.
Speaker 1: It was a very very smooth UM experience, you know,
Speaker 1: transitioning from one to the other and navigating through the
Speaker 1: new user interface and and playing with the apps and stuff.
Speaker 1: It was. I enjoyed it, and I thought it was
Speaker 1: a very attractive UM design. I agree. I agree. Alright, cool, Well,
Speaker 1: I guess this wraps up our in depth look at
Speaker 1: what Windows eight is all about. Some of you probably
Speaker 1: have been using it for a while, we should ask
Speaker 1: you what you thought about it. So, hey, drop us
Speaker 1: a line and line what what you think about all right? So? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's know. You can send us an email, are in justted,
Speaker 1: text stuff at Discovery dot com, or let us know
Speaker 1: on Facebook or Twitter. Are handled. There is tech stuff
Speaker 1: HS double That wraps us up. We'll talk to you
Speaker 1: again soon. End of line. For more on this and
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