1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from stuff 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello again, everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: My name is Chris Polette and I am an editor 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across from me 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: as usual, this star of stage and screen, the inimitable 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Hey there, that's my that's my 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: disaffected Hollywood voice. Uh now, right off the bat, we've 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: talked about Windows eight before. Yes, we know that, yes, 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: so don't write in. But when we talked about Windows eight, 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,959 Speaker 1: it was from whatever little information we could glean at 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: the time, because we had not had any experience really 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: using Windows eight, at least not much. I think we had. 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: You had I think downloaded an early, early early build 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: of Windows at to developer build. Yes, and that was 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: all we had had a chance to play with. But 16 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: since then we have had a chance to a with 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: the more or less full version of Windows eight. Now, granted, 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: by the time this podcast goes out, Windows eight will 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: have been released to the wild in the wild, to 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: the wild wild people will be using Windows eight by 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: the time this podcast goes live, But we're recording it 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: the week before that happens. Ye, And uh, you know 23 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: I am one of those people that I've learned sort 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: of from past experience that maybe you don't want to 25 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: stand in line for the brand new operating system the 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: first day it comes out. It might be better to 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: see what happens and let them release an update before 28 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: you go ahead and put it on there. Because it 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: seems like there's and it doesn't seem to matter who 30 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: it's coming from. This just computer operating systems in general. 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: It's agnostic as far as as operating systems go, in 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: the sense that there's only there's so much testing you 33 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: can do during the development of an operating system, but 34 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: the the even the most rigorous testing uh environment is 35 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: not going to be able to account for every single 36 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: way people use their computers and the software they use 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: in the hardware they use. So often in the early 38 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: days of any operating system being released, you'll hear problems 39 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: about or people complain about problems like certain software doesn't 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: seem to work with that operating system, or it doesn't 41 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: seem to recognize particular types of hardware You plug it 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: in and like the driver is missing, so you can't 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: use this one particular kind of hardware like a microphone 44 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: or mixer or that's the kind of stuff that I 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: always worry about. I was writing a paper for school, 46 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: but I wanted to go ahead and install the new 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: operating system, and now I can't print. Yeah, that can happen, 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: so but but feeling that, I mean, that's just a 49 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: problem that is that goes with the territory with any 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: new operating system. We wanted to talk more about what 51 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: makes Windows eight different, and uh, it's it's it's a 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: dramatic departure from previous versions of Windows. If you are 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: familiar with the the way Windows tends to look, that's 54 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: it's a graphic user interface and has been for a 55 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: couple of decades now. Um it's uh, you know, you're 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: you're used to things like the start button at the 57 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: in the bottom, which was introduced what was that Windows 58 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: ninety five or I remember it being in wind Okay. 59 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: So it's been around for a while and it's gone now. 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: So that's so long since I've used Windows three point 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: x that I write, I don't even remember what. I 62 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: just remember all the tiles or or the icons rather tiles, 63 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: but the icons that you would click on. So you know, 64 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: Windows eight still has a desktop mode, although the start 65 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: button has gone from it. UM, so if you were 66 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: used to the start button, be prepared to lose it 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: right it's gone. But it also the probably the thing 68 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: that's gotten the most attention is the the tiled interface 69 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: that Windows eight has, the Windows eight interface that you 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: can when you look at you just know this thing 71 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: was made for touch screen devices. You look at and 72 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: you're like, this is It's clear that these are the 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: kind of icons where if this were a touch screen 74 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: I would touch that part of the screen and the 75 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: app would launch. Uh, And in fact that is the case. 76 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: It is designed so that will will work both with 77 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: touch screen interface devices or displays and with the more 78 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: traditional keyboard and mouse interface. UM, you can do either. 79 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: I think it's with our our limited experience with it, 80 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: I would say that I would imagine there's going to 81 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: be quite a learning curve for people who adopt this, 82 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: who are especially people who are really used to older 83 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: versions of Windows. It's going to take time to get 84 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: to a familiarity with this oberating system where they feel 85 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: they can navigate through it seamlessly, particularly if they're using 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: a keyboard and mouse. It's not that it's impossible, it's 87 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: not that Windows has made it uh ungainly or anything. 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: It's just so different from what you knew before that 89 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: it's going to take time to learn all those tricks 90 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: and it may be a little frustrating at first. Now, 91 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: if you have a touch screen device or touch screen display, 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: it's going to feel pretty natural because it's got this, 93 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: like I said, this tiled approach to laying out all 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: the apps, and you navigate the way I guess the 95 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: way you navigate just about any touch screen interface. At 96 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: this point, you touch the screen, you can drag your 97 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: finger one way or the other and it moves the 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: tiles accordingly. And then by tapping on a tile, you 99 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: open up the the app or feature or whatever it is. 100 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: And so I mean it's very intuitive from a touch perspective, 101 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: but using the mouse and keyboard, like I said, it's 102 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: going to it's gonna take some time for people to 103 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: adjust to the different layout and the different navigation scheme. Yeah, 104 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: the uh Microsoft really got into the navigation and how 105 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: people are going to be using this, and they, um, 106 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: it's clear that they were thinking about something that could 107 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: be cross hardware. Um, you know, it could be used 108 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: on a computer, could be used on a mobile device. Um. 109 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: And frankly, you know, if you look at the form 110 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: factor of screens of all types, we've really gone, you know, 111 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: towards the sixteen by nine ratio as opposed to the 112 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: four by three, which four by three is like a 113 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: standard definition TV when you're looking at it in the 114 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: sixteen by nine is the um the way an HD 115 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: TV looks. So it's you know, uh, longer, more rectangular, 116 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: less square, more of a wide screen. Look. Yeah, and 117 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: I mean our phones look like that, tablets look like that. UM, 118 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: computer monitors look like that. Laptops have have developed you know, 119 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: according to that too, So uh it makes a lot 120 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: more sense, um, to have the operating system be designed 121 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: with that in mind. And UM, they've really um, you know, 122 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: talking about the earlier release that we had a chance 123 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: to play with some quite some time ago. Now, UM, 124 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: Microsoft has been really um outgoing about its efforts to 125 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: woo the developers because you know, they do have a 126 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: strong relationship with their developers. And um they's subtle, subtle, 127 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: little references to a very popular video on YouTube, which 128 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: is not so subtle. But no, they've they've they've really 129 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: reached out and said, look, these are guidelines that we've 130 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: uh that we've come up with usability guidelines, navigation guidelines. 131 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: We really think if you design your applications to work 132 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: with this in mind, it will be a positive experience. 133 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: And the the the apps that we had a chance 134 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: to play around with really did you know, it wasn't seamless, 135 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: but there was very little seam if you will, I mean, 136 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: they really did fit in with the environment. Pardon me, 137 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: wise backed the table with my n What's what's interesting 138 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: also is that you know, bringing the world of mobile 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: with the world of PC together is challenging on multiple fronts. 140 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: Um One, you have to design hardware that is capable 141 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: of keeping up with like mobile hardware that's capable of 142 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: keeping up with what we're used to from a PC, 143 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: whether it's a laptop or desktop. You also have to 144 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: factor in, well, the input for a tablet tends to 145 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: be very different than the input for a computer, So 146 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: how do we account for that. For apps that are 147 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: designed for touch, there's no problem, you know, that's that's 148 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: designed with the tablet form factor in mind. But what 149 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: about those desktop applications that are not designed for touch interface, 150 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: at least not not primarily designed for touch interface? How 151 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: do you get around that and it's it's Windows eight 152 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: is a is goes a long way to trying to 153 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: reckon style all of that. Now, we haven't had chance 154 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: to really play with all the different stuff that we 155 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: would normally use on a Windows machine. For example, Office, 156 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: which is you know, that's productivity software. And a lot 157 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: of people know what Microsoft You know they've used Microsoft Office. 158 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: It's word and Excel and power Point, things like that. Uh, 159 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: I've used those quite a bit on computers with the 160 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: mouse and keyboard combinations. I'm very familiar with that. I 161 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: don't know what that would be like on a tablet 162 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: if I did not have a peripheral devices because most 163 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: tablets nowadays will support peripheral devices, whether it's through Bluetooth 164 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: or USB or whatever. But you can often connect to 165 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: a tablet something like a keyboard and a mouse, or 166 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: it will have a docking station where you can connect 167 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: everything through the docking station to the tablet and it 168 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: it becomes essentially like a very lightweight laptop computer. It's 169 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: just that all the elements detached from each other. Um. 170 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Now in that case, you would I could see using 171 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: those those uh, those pieces of software in essentially the 172 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: same way you would if it were a true laptop 173 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: or PC. Without them, I'm not sure how I would 174 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: use them. Uh. It's not to say that they're unusable. 175 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: I just haven't had that experience. But that's one of 176 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: the challenges that Microsoft faces with Windows eight and the 177 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: design of an operating system that can work on both 178 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: mobile and and PC platforms is how do you make 179 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: sure that you you are catering to both audiences without 180 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: sacrificing too much for either one. Because if you cater 181 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: too much on the tablet side, everyone who uses the 182 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: desktop or laptop version of the the operating system is 183 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: going to feel like things are too difficult to do 184 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: in that form factor to just by that operating system, right, 185 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: So balancing that is really tricky, and I think they 186 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: did a pretty good job with it. We did practice 187 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: navigating through Windows eight using only the mouse and keyboard, 188 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: so even though we were we were using it on 189 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: a tablet. We had a tablet device that had Windows 190 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: eight loaded on it that we tried to play with. 191 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm just gonna go ahead and tell 192 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: you it was not the surface. I really want to 193 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: play with a surface tablet, but I have not had 194 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: that opportunity yet, at least as of the recording of 195 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: this podcast. Who knows by the time between the wind 196 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: is recorded when it launches, I'm gonna guess I still 197 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: haven't really played with one, but unless there's a store 198 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: that happens to have one. Anyway, we we did navigate 199 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: with just the keyboard and mouse, and it took some 200 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: even for us. It took some time for us to 201 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: kind of just even get the basics. But once we 202 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: got the basis right, Okay, I understand how this works. Now. 203 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: It's definitely one of those things where I'd have to 204 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: train my brain to catch up to make this feel natural. 205 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: But you know, we could definitely see how to get 206 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: around whether or not it's easy enough for the average 207 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: user so that that level of frustration isn't overwhelming. I 208 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: don't know it'll be. That will be a real test 209 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: of the operating system. It'll especially once people if people 210 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: want to go to the desktop to use some of 211 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: the more robust programs, because as I understand it, things 212 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: like the productivity software of Office would be in the 213 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: desktop version of the view, not the Windows eight interface 214 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: version of the view. So if you wanted to open 215 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: up Word, you would go into the desktop and then 216 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: open it up that way, and you would, you know, 217 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: do all your your work in there. And now they 218 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: do have some uh they have an upcoming version of 219 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: of Office that's going to incorporate touch commands as well 220 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: as your regular keyboard and mouse commands. But even then, 221 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: I think it's all relegated to the if I may 222 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: be wrong about this, but I think it's all relegated 223 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: to the desktop version of the view of Microsoft date, 224 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: not the interface, not the tiled interface. Um on. One 225 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: thing that I'm sorry to all I was gonna say 226 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: is that this should not be confused with there are 227 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: two different versions of this tiled interface coming out. There's 228 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: Windows are T and there's Windows eight. And Windows are 229 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: T is designed for mobile devices that are on the 230 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: lower powered end of the spectrum. So these are ones 231 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: that that tiled interface is what you get, and that's 232 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's mainly meant to to compete in 233 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: the tablet market as we understand it today, so that 234 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: being things like the iPad and Android tablets where they 235 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: are running uh, simplified versions of software so that the 236 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: software doesn't tend to be as robust as a full 237 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: PC program would be you know, they're there. They're more 238 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: like the apps that we've become accustomed to over the 239 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: last few years. Windows eight, the full version of Windows eight, 240 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: is something that is running on higher end tablets as 241 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: well as PCs and laptops. That would be uh, the 242 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: one that has the desktop view and can run these 243 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: more robust programs like Microsoft Office. Yeah, and UM yeah, 244 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: that's that's a good point because they've kind of gone 245 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: in the other direction to um to have some of 246 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: the elements of Microsoft Office bleed over into the operating system. UM. 247 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've noticed this or not been 248 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: In opening a couple of the Windows just in Windows Explorer, 249 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: I noticed that the ribbon interface from Office, which Jonathan 250 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: loves so much, by the way, um, that appears at 251 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: the top of the screen with all your little uh 252 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: gadgets and gizmos a plenty. Um, and who's it some 253 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: webs at skill Lore. Um. The that same in your 254 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: faces appearing in other parts of Windows at least in there. 255 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: So people who are familiar with Office are going to 256 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: be familiar with that part of the operating system as 257 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: a whole, with that part of the interface as a whole. 258 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: So I think I finally figured that ribbon thing out. 259 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: Now it's about time form you change with the Yeah, 260 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: now that that is something that I feel a lot 261 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: of empathy toward users who get frustrated with major changes 262 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: in operating systems or any kind of software, because when 263 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: you become accustomed to something and you really have streamlined 264 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: your approach to using a particular piece of software, it 265 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: does become a bit of a frustration when that changes 266 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: so dramatically as to interrupt that flow. And I mean 267 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: this is not this is not unique to Windows or 268 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: really to Microsoft at all. This is something that goes 269 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: across all platforms, all software, all operating systems, really any product. 270 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: When you get down to it, is that when you 271 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: get used to the way something is and then get 272 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: the new thing, that's even if it's demonstrably better than 273 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the old thing, if it's different enough you start to 274 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: complain about, I can't find anything on this this because 275 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: it's they've changed where everything is. Um So I'm not 276 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: immune to that. Yeah. Well, Apple has had the same 277 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: thing going on too with um uh. One of the things, 278 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: the example that popped into my mind was the recent 279 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: change of the scroll direction with a scrolling mouse. We 280 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: flipped it so that exactly so if you, you know, 281 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: use your iPad and you now you you go through 282 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: your email and then you go to your computer, you 283 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: don't scroll in the opposite direction. And people complained about that, 284 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: and of course Apple made it possible for you to 285 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: go into your your system preferences and it off and 286 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: make it make it the traditional way. But people were 287 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: complaining about that thing. And you can you can tell, 288 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: I mean the Windows ahead, I'm sorry it with Windows eight, 289 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: with the the option for the more touchscreen oriented layout 290 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: even on a computer, and uh, the mac os appearing 291 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: more like iOS that that um computer and operating system 292 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: manufacturers are seeing that the world's bleeding over into one another. 293 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: That you expect computer functionality from a tablet or a smartphone, 294 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: and you expect navigation to work the same on on both, 295 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: and beyond that that you expect to be able to 296 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: work on the same stuff from one platform to the 297 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: next in a in a seamless a way as possible. 298 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: So this brings in the whole idea of the cloud 299 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: in there as well, so that when you are saving 300 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: a project, whatever it may be, in whatever program you're 301 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: thinking about that when you put down one piece of 302 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: technology and pick up another, that you are able to 303 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: go right back into that project uninterrupted as if you 304 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: have been working on the same platform the entire time. Yeah, 305 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: that's that's a powerful experience. Anyone who has had that 306 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: where they you know, something as simple as watching a 307 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: video on Let's say you pull up a really long video, 308 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: like a movie on your laptop and you're watching a 309 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: bit of it, and then you have to take a 310 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: bus ride somewhere, and it's a long bus ride, so 311 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: you pull up your your phone and you get your 312 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,719 Speaker 1: your earbuds in because you're being nice and you're not 313 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: listening to something so that the entire bus has to 314 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: hear you watch Independence Day you um, you pull it 315 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: up in it and because you're using this this uh 316 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: service that goes across multiple platforms, it pulls it up 317 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: right where you left off when you were watching on 318 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: the PC, and you continue watch again. Then you get 319 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: home and you think, oh, well, I've got this set 320 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: top box connected to my television and there's the last 321 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes the movie and I need to see uh 322 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: Quaid go up and blow himself up inside the giant 323 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: spaceship spoiler alert. Um, then you know you can you 324 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: can load that up. And because again it's a service 325 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: that goes across these multiple platforms, it picks up right 326 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: where you left off on the phone. That's a great experience, 327 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: and I mean that's that's the one that I think 328 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: everyone uses as an example, like you're listening to music 329 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: or you're watching a movie and you're able to move 330 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 1: from one device to another and continue that experience as 331 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: always shown as being completely seamless, which in reality never happens. 332 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: There's always there's always buffering, there's there's lots of things 333 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: that go into that, but you know, the idea is there. Well, 334 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: the same thing is true with these operating systems like 335 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: Windows eight, where the idea is to try and have 336 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: the mobile world and PC world together so that you 337 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: can have an uninterrupted experience and whatever you're working in. 338 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: So that way, if you need to pick up and 339 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: go and you want to do some minor changes to 340 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: something on a tablet that you had been working on 341 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: in a PC, you have that option and UH. And 342 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: so that requires a very robe bust operating system that 343 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: is UH that can be used in multiple form factors 344 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: It's also true that in upcoming there there are more 345 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: and more laptops and even desktop displays coming out they 346 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: have touch screen functionality built into them. I do not 347 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: own any of these. I don't have a touch screen display. 348 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't have a laptop with a touch screen monitor. 349 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: But um, but imagine they're pretty pricey for for most 350 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: people at this point. Yeah, but they have been coming on. 351 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember seeing a few of them a 352 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: couple of years ago at c E S, and I'm 353 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: sure I'll see a lot more of them at the 354 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: c E S. Uh. I don't know. It may very 355 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: well be that the future of operating systems requires that 356 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: kind of hardware to be optimal right for you to 357 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: get the most out of it. But again, the goal 358 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: that Microsoft had was to treat create an operating system that, 359 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: no matter what for M you were using UH to 360 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: run the operating system on, you would be able to 361 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: navigate through it as easily as possible. It's it's a 362 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: challenging thing because it's so fundamentally different, you know. I 363 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: mean that was something that Apple really paid attention to 364 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: in the development of the iPhone and the iPod Touch, 365 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: and then later the iPad was that, how do we 366 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: design a an operating system that is easy and intuitive? 367 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: And uh, do we you know, how much attention do 368 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: we pay to our uh computer version of that operating system, 369 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: like do do we model it after a computer reversion? 370 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: And Apple's decision was to depart dramatically from the computer 371 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: operating system. Uh. Microsoft's decision is more to create a 372 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: an experience that can work across all of it, as 373 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: opposed to let's do something specifically for this form factor 374 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: and only this form factor. Yeah. Microsoft, of course is 375 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: uh the still very much the operating system of choice 376 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: for businesses and very very popular among enterprise applications. Yeah, 377 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: and I would I would say that it's likely that 378 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: with the release of the new Office Suite and the 379 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: the cross hardware capabilities of the operating system, they're they're 380 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: planning on making a big push to be the operating 381 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: system with Windows eight for the for the enterprise market, 382 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: you know. Plus with the hybrid computers coming out now, 383 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: to the laptops that have a removable screen that turns 384 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: into a tablet or they flip around with a slate, Yeah, 385 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: they you know, these are intended to you know, to 386 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: function in multiple modes and uh, you know previously the uh, 387 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: the Lenovo that you saw at CES a couple of 388 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: years to go, um the U one yeah, um, when 389 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: you pulled the you know, the screen out and it 390 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: became a tablet, it ran on Linux, it switched operating systems. 391 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: When it was in laptop form, it was running a 392 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: version of Windows, and then you detached the screen and 393 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: it would switch to a Linux based operating system. The 394 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: idea trying again trying to maintain the seamless approach as 395 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: much as possible, so that if you were working on 396 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: something in Windows and then you detached the screen, it 397 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: would open up a comparable application within Linux and try 398 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: to continue that experience, which, as I'm sure you can 399 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: all imagine, is not an easy thing to do, nor 400 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: was it completely successful. Right, Yeah, so tough. That's a 401 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: tough thing. And then they changed it, I think with 402 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: going to an Android based approach. I think in a 403 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: later version it's still never made it to market in 404 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, but this but but having Windows 405 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: eight be able to uh uh you know, function in 406 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: either mode, it's going to make that a lot more possible, 407 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: and they'll be able to make that push and I 408 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: think you're you're going to see developers working on more 409 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: productivity uh stuff. That's what you're going to see in 410 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: the Windows Store earlier. And that's actually we hadn't talked 411 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: about the Windows Store really, which is is going to 412 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: be the marketplace for Windows apps, right. So, UM, to 413 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: to find stuff, you would go to the Windows Store 414 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: and they'll have it organized by category. They'll have it organized. 415 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: Uh you can do searches things like that to find 416 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: the stuff that you need to find. Uh. The app 417 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: development process is very well documented on Microsoft. You can 418 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: find out lots of information if you are interested in 419 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: building apps for the Windows eight platform. Um, they talk 420 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: a lot about the fact that you know, Chris talked 421 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: about this earlier. They Microsoft has done a lot of 422 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: research on how people use tablets, and they can even 423 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: they share that research with developers. So if you're a 424 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: developer and you want to create an app that has uh, 425 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: you know it's you know, you've got a primary function 426 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: for that app, as well as some others secondary or 427 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: tertiary functions. Uh, you can look at that research and see, oh, 428 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: this is how people use tablets, this is how they 429 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: typically hold them. It makes most sense for me to 430 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: put the primary feature of my app in this location 431 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: because it will be the most convenient for the user. 432 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: You know. That's the kind of research Microsoft has done 433 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: so that developers can take some of the guesswork out 434 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: and not have to build out something tested, then totally 435 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: redesign it and build it a different way if their 436 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: first build doesn't seem to be you know, optimally laid 437 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: out for the user. They have something called the grid, 438 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: which is this. Uh. This, it's kind of a way 439 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: of aligning your app. Like once you've design and that 440 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: you can you can line it up so that is 441 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: attractive and effective. Uh and and then it will work 442 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: well within the Windows eight operating system for the users. 443 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: That is where Tron fights for the users into line. 444 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Uh there's uh, yeah, there's yeah, there's a there's a 445 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: lot of resources out there, and and like there's one 446 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: that Chris and I looked at even about navigating, you know, 447 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: how to how to design the navigation of your app, 448 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: and it gave lots of high level approaches to you know, 449 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: ways you could design your app so that the user 450 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: can navigate through it and find what he or she wants. 451 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: And I mean it's just obvious that they've tried to 452 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: build as many resources for developers as possible so that 453 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: people can go out there and build great apps. And and 454 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: and of course that's important. I mean, that's important for 455 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: Microsoft if if for Windows eight to well, it needs 456 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: to have really great apps to show off within its interface. 457 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: You know, if if if all the apps that come 458 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: out are just sort of half hearted attempts, that does 459 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: not reflect well on Windows eight. Even if the operatings 460 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Excuse me, but even if the operating system itself is uh, phenomenal, 461 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: if the apps aren't any good, then that's what people 462 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: are going to remember. So Microsoft's really gone out of 463 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: the way to try and give developers a head start 464 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: for creating things specifically for the Windows eight environment. Yeah, 465 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: it's um. It's interesting to note too that the developing 466 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: for the language could mean one of really kind of 467 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: a couple different things. Um. You could be using the 468 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: traditional languages of computer programming like C plus plus um 469 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: um and C sharp, and that's what I sort of 470 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: think of when I think of programming. I'm thinking you're 471 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: getting into that. But they also use a lot of 472 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: web web languages to they're they're promoting the use of 473 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: HTML five along with JavaScript and and CSS to complement 474 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: the the h T M l UM, which of course 475 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: you know is one of the rising methods of creating 476 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: web apps to these days. So you know, if you 477 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: are a UM, if you are a web web developer, 478 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: you may find yourself able to create apps for Windows 479 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: eight as well. Right depending on what you needed to do, 480 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: you may be having to get into. So let's say, 481 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: let's say you have a website about movie news and rumors, 482 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: and you've got this this website and you thought, well, 483 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: what if we created an app where people could launch 484 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: the app and read the top stories and breaking news 485 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, then you know, building that 486 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: app in HTML five is probably going to be a 487 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: lot easier for you. One you're already going to be 488 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: familiar with HTML, but too you will be able to 489 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: port over a lot of the content that you want 490 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: to showcase in this app because it was built on HTML. 491 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: So you don't have to convert anything, you don't have 492 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: to build anything new in that sense, so a lot 493 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: of your work has already done for you. And that's uh. 494 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: That's another thing about the resources. They do go into 495 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: detail about what the different languages are and even give 496 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: suggestions over you know, when to use each family of 497 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: languages depending on your expertise and what you want your 498 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: app to do. And clearly, someone who's building a game 499 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: is going to be looking at languages very differently than 500 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: someone who wants to port a web a web page 501 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: experience into a web app experience. So uh yeah, And 502 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: I mean the other thing was that Chris and I 503 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: were not web developers, and we don't. We've done some programming, 504 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: but that was for me that was a long time ago. 505 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: I don't remember the last time I actually sat down 506 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: to program something. So the what I'm getting at is 507 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: that the information that was laid out was very easily 508 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: understandable for me, and that's from someone who has not 509 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: done any programming in a very long time and has 510 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: not kept up with it frankly. So um, that was 511 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: something I appreciated, was the fact that it was easy 512 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: to understand. Yeah, just just just ask developers. The easier 513 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: it is to program for a platform, you know, the 514 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: more you know worthwhile, it seems if you have to 515 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: go way out of your way to learn some obscure 516 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: programming language just for this one operating system, especially for 517 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: something that you know, you aren't. You can't be sure 518 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: what the success rate is going to be. Then that 519 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: tends to make people shy away from developing, understandably, because 520 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: you're you have a limited amount of time and resources 521 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: to dedicate to this sort of stuff, so you wanna 522 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: you want to aim for, um, the the best targets possible. UM. 523 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: With Windows eight, it's still very early, so it's kind 524 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: of hard to say what the success rate is going 525 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: to be. I mean, Microsoft has had some some great 526 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: success in the operating system arena. I mean that that's 527 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: a huge understatement, but they've also had some pretty well 528 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: publicized missteps. Well yeah, and and this cough cough. Well, 529 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: and of course they've they rectified a lot of that, 530 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: but the initial release, right, The problem was that the 531 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: initial release of Vista had enough problems in it, and 532 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: it was a big enough change from previous versions of 533 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: Windows to really upset people. And even though Microsoft did 534 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: address many, if not most, of those problems by the 535 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: time that was in place, the damage had been done 536 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: because that early response was so negative that to this day, 537 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: Vista has that stigma attached to it, even though the 538 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: later versions of the operating system were very different from 539 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: those first releases. So a lot of people skipped Visa 540 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: entirely and waited for Windows seven before, or they stuck 541 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: with Windows XP UM because they had heard so many 542 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: bad things about Vista even you know, and by the 543 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: time they had fixed it, it it was too late. Yeah, 544 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: they Microsoft has a problem in a way because so 545 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: many people are sticking with XP even now. UM that 546 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,239 Speaker 1: even even with the success of Windows seven, I think 547 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: I would go so far as to say that pretty 548 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: much everything I've read about Windows seven is very positive. 549 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: I've had positive experiences when I've used it, um and 550 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: I like the operating system. But people say the same 551 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: kinds of things about Windows XP because it just it 552 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: just works. And then that that's you know, people are 553 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: seeing that as a barrier to entry for Windows eight. 554 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: So if you've waited, you've skipped Vista, you've skipped Windows seven, 555 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: and you say, oh, Windows eight looks kind of interesting, 556 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: it's going to be much a much more dramatic change 557 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: for you than it would be for somebody who's been 558 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: using Windows seven. Right, and and to keep this in perspective, 559 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: one of the challenges of being the the choice operating 560 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: system among enterprises is that when you update your operating system, 561 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: you know that your customer base is not going to 562 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: adopt it that quickly, at least not most of them, 563 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: because it's a it's a big deal for a company 564 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: to upgrade an operating system. I mean, especially if all 565 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: the I T people in your your business are well 566 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: trained on that operating system right there, just have to 567 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: get retrained on a new one. It's that's a lot 568 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: of time, it's a lot of money. You have to 569 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: you have to gain new knowledge because you have to 570 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: know how to support the new operating system. You have 571 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: to make sure that any of the mission critical software 572 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: you runs is still operational on that new operating system. 573 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: You may have some legacy software that you cannot port 574 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: over to a new operating system. Well guess what this 575 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: one this one program works in Windows three point one 576 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: and that's it. Well, that means we have to keep 577 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: this machine running on Windows three point one because we 578 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: have to have access to this um software. And in business, 579 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: I went to just the other day, had a and 580 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: I looked at it. It It was a Windows screen because 581 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: that way was they were using a very specialized piece 582 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: of software. Right, So that's a big problem. And also 583 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: just the logistics if you are if if you're running 584 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: a large company and you've got a lot of employees 585 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: and every employee has a computer, you know, rolling out that, 586 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: you know, getting the licenses, and then rolling out the 587 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: operating system to each of those machines. This is a 588 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: process that tends to take quite some time per machine, 589 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: or it can take quite some time per machine, depending 590 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: on the machine. Um, it's just it's it's you know, 591 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot more complicated than UH and average 592 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: consumer saying, oh, that operating system looks really cool. I'm 593 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: in the I'm in the the market for a new computer, 594 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: so I'll just go out and buy one of those. 595 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: That's a lot easier for us as consumers than it 596 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: is for businesses. And with Microsoft having so much UH 597 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: support in the enterprise realm, it's, um, you know, that's 598 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: that's one of the big challenges. You know. It's it's 599 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: a great thing to say, like, you know, businesses depend 600 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: on our operating system. That's a great story to tell, 601 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: but it it presents a whole realm of challenges that 602 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: aren't applicable to a company that's really just going after 603 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: the average consumer. And one of those one of the 604 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: recent changes for Windows eight two, one of the most 605 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: I think interesting because it's well, for one thing, it's 606 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: kind of fun um and at the same time sort 607 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: of an innovative security feature or intended security feature. Is 608 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: the ability for your machine to recognize your face when 609 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: you sit down in front of it. I mean, that's 610 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: one of the things we talk about about the Xbox 611 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: and connect. Hey it's you, which isn't really an issue 612 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: when you're playing a game, your difficulty levels too easy. 613 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: But uh, but when you are using your company's computer, 614 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: you have proprietary information that they don't want to get out, 615 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 1: and a photo of your face will work just as 616 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: well as your face. That's a problem. And Jonathan, I 617 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: have just read a report that the facial recognition uh 618 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: security software and Windows eight is a little uh insecure. Yeah, 619 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: it might be one of those things where again, uh, 620 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: a corporation may just end up disabling it or forbidding 621 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: people from using that as a means of accessing the computer, 622 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: so that instead you use a standard strong password in 623 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: order to access it or whatever. Um you know, retinal 624 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: scan fingerprints could happen. I use, I use, I use 625 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: a fingerprint scanner for one of my machines. Um, I'm 626 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: not the one that I currently have in front of me, 627 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: that one I actually use a strong password for. But uh, 628 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: they yeah, that's it's one of those things where, again, 629 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: the certain features are built in I think for convenience, 630 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: and it may work well for one segment of the market, 631 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: that being consumers who are you know, just it's just 632 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: their own personal machine and they're not you know, perhaps 633 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: the the Uh, it's not as big a target for 634 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,479 Speaker 1: a hacker or someone else to to try and get 635 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: access to it as opposed to a corporate machine that 636 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: might have some truly valuable information on it. Uh. I 637 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: would say that that that facial recognition is made more 638 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: for again the general consumer. Oh, I think so. But 639 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you were tempted to turn that on 640 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: for your work computer, your I T professional may come 641 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: by and shake kids her fist at you and say, 642 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: do not do that. That is against the rules. Um, 643 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: there will have to be a rule for it, probably, 644 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: But again, these are one of those things where new 645 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: technology comes out gives us some some new ways of 646 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: accessing our information. Sometimes they work great, and sometimes there 647 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: are ways around that. So uh, it's it's to be expected. Yeah, 648 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: I think so. But but by and large I really 649 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: liked having the opportunity to fiddle with it for a 650 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: couple of hours just to see, you know, how how 651 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: it's going to work, how the the interaction between the 652 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: touch screens style interface versus the desktop style interface, UM 653 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: would work. And it was. It was. It flowed pretty well. Yeah, 654 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: and it was. It was really pretty. Oh, it's very pretty. 655 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: And and we were again we were using it on 656 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: a tablet, so it was a tablet that did run 657 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: both the desktop and the tiled version of Windows uh. 658 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: And it was not difficult to navigate between the two 659 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: um uh. But yeah, I mean, even even on a 660 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: form factor like that, because most of us think of 661 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: tablets as being significantly underpowered to compare to desktops or whatever. 662 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: It was a very very smooth UM experience, you know, 663 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: transitioning from one to the other and navigating through the 664 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: new user interface and and playing with the apps and stuff. 665 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: It was. I enjoyed it, and I thought it was 666 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: a very attractive UM design. I agree. I agree. Alright, cool, Well, 667 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: I guess this wraps up our in depth look at 668 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: what Windows eight is all about. Some of you probably 669 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: have been using it for a while, we should ask 670 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: you what you thought about it. So, hey, drop us 671 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: a line and line what what you think about all right? So? Yeah, 672 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: let's know. You can send us an email, are in justted, 673 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: text stuff at Discovery dot com, or let us know 674 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: on Facebook or Twitter. Are handled. There is tech stuff 675 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: HS double That wraps us up. We'll talk to you 676 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: again soon. End of line. For more on this and 677 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit hastaff works dot com.