WEBVTT - Rajaratnam Says Law Misunderstood Hedge Fund Business 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.400 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.080 Searched Bloomberg Global News. Roger Roger Rottenham was the co 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.520 founder of the technology hedge fund Galleon Group, one time 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.239 managed more than seven billion dollars. He was arrested in 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.519 charge with insider trading that was back in October of 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.559 oh nine. Twelve days of deliberations, a jury in New 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.680 York did find him guilty of fourteen counts stemming from 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.319 a seven year plot to trade on insider information from 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.400 corporate executives, bankers, consultants, traders, and other insiders. Sentenced to 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.880 eleven years in prison for his role in what prosecutors 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.320 called one of the largest hedge fund insider trading rings 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.320 in US history. He did serve seven and a half 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.319 years in prison. He is out. He's written a book. 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.120 It's called Uneven Justice, The Plot to Sink Gallian, And 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.960 we are delighted to have him in studio here in 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.280 our Interactive Broker studio. Thank you for joining us and 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:17.040 coming here. UM, how are you. I'm great, You're great. Well, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.280 I want if you would, UM, give us all the 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.960 what was happening back in October of oh nine. I'm 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.160 trying to take us back to the day. It was 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.000 a Friday and you had FBI UH, an FBI agent 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.080 knock unity door. What happened? Well, I was about to 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.200 fly to London that evening Friday. Also was my son's 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.520 thirteenth birthday and we're going to celebrate that, and then 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.800 I was going to take the last flight, UM from 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.960 New York to London. UM, if you had asked me 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.480 that morning, one of the hundred things you worry about 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.600 inside of trading was not one of them. If you 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.240 had asked me, the FBI guy is doing a good job, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.840 but the prosecutors are doing a job. Good job. I 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.360 would have said yes. I didn't know anybody who went 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.880 to prison, nor did I know anybody who knew anybody 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.360 who went to prison. So when I got that knock 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:20.960 on the door at approximately six or seven o'clock kids 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.880 in the house, I opened it and I saw this 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:30.800 sea of blue um jackets with the FBI with guns drawn. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.160 And they said are you Raj Rajaratnam And I said yes, 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.920 and they said you're on the rest. I said what for? 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:44.079 And they said, we can't tell you, and then started 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:49.080 a first inness series of misconduct. They told me that 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.560 I couldn't I won't see my son for twenty five years. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.600 They said, take a good look at your wife. She 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.960 looks happy because she can spend all the money, and 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.239 then hand me and took me down in their car 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:09.560 to the FBI offices. We were talking when you came in, Raj, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.399 about when you actually had time to write this book, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.120 and you said you wrote some of that and you 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.560 wrote it when when you were in prison? What what? 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.920 What was it like? You know? I wrote of the 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.000 book by hand in prison. And as I told you, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.600 I have tremendous respect for Shakespeare and authors of that generation. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.920 Because you couldn't move paragraphs around. You couldn't do spell checks, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:41.760 you know. But when it's project that you're passionate about, uh, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.440 it's easy. I started writing one hour a day, then 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.800 two hours and three hours, and I was exhausted after 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.280 four hours. It's it's most authors will say that. I 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.320 have to say, just picking back and went to mask. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.839 One of the things that as our news room knows 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.600 that you were coming in to talk with us. One 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.560 of the questions that so many people ask me that 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.800 you know, ask him, what was jail like? Jail was? 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:05.520 I would say, if I had to say it in 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.360 one way, spartan? Um, you know, I went to boarding 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.400 mistreated at all, Well not really, but you know I 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.960 went to boarding school in a different country, foreign country, 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.760 at the age of eleven, and that life was spartan. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.039 But you get used to it. Now. You have to 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:26.240 be smart because in jail, like in the jungles of Africa, 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.560 there are predators that tried to prey on you, try 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.880 to get money from you, and you have to stand 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.400 your ground and you know, give the impression that you're 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.240 not going to be bullied. Did you ever run into 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.039 um Rag Gypta because he was the former government SAX 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.159 director He was convicted of insider trading, of passing illegal 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.800 tips to you. He went to that same Massachusetts prison. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.200 Did you run into him. Did you guys have conversations? Yeah, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:58.040 we had breakfast every day, We played scrabble, we played bridge. Yeah. Yeah. 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:03.560 Um So I wonder as you look back at what happened, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.960 how it evolved, would you have done anything differently in 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.680 terms of how you ran your fund um and how 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.760 you ran things there. No, Carol, I I don't regret anything. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:19.760 Let me just explain. The SEC interviewed twenty four Galleon analysts, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.320 and all of them said, we didn't see anything that's wrong. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.400 When you run a company with hundred and eighty people, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.400 somebody would see something if you did something wrong. I 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.880 think what happened was the law enforcement people did not 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.840 understand the hedge fund industry or the investment industry. What 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.479 we do all day long is talk about stocks. I 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:51.080 had thirty five analysts, really highly educated, highly skilled, that 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:55.040 we were spending a forty million dollars a year. Right. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.480 That was the bedrock of my analysis and my trading. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.599 Now you might ask me why do you talk to 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.560 other people. You talk to other people because you want 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.919 to know what's in the market, what are people chatting about? 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.640 And is your view different from that of my trades 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:19.000 that they alleged. We had an existing can precon in 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:25.120 position before the alleged trip. Right at that time, the 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.720 U S Attorney is Supre Barara, came up with his 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.680 own theory of what insided trading should be or that 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:39.160 even he prosecuted. Five years after my conviction, the second 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:44.960 Circuit firmly rejected his theory, saying that the person who 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.360 did the trade or the tip should have known the 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.480 tipper should have known that the tipper was violating a 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:56.479 fiduciary responsibility and should have given a benefit. Soon after that, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.400 We've had a very few inside a training cases. Ros 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.440 Now might be somebody listening right now and just asking 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.960 the question why why we are interviewing you. You do, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.280 of course I have a book out, But what would 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.240 you say to somebody who says, you know, even after 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.720 these convictions, why why should people listen to you? Okay, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:18.880 let me just take a step back and then I'll 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.360 answer your question. Number one, all proceeds of the book 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.000 are going to charity, so I'm not trying to get richer. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.200 I'm not getting rich org it. Number two, this is 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.840 not about Raj Raj Ratnam. This is about a bigger issue. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.520 It's social justice. And I had a front row seat. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.960 I was. They came into my apartment early in the morning. 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.520 They arrested me. I went to trial. You know that 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:53.920 of the people who are alleged, UM plea bargain. I 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.000 knew there was a trial penalty, which is two x 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.360 a sentence when you if you, if you pre bargain, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:04.960 and I spend time in prison. Right. The reason I'm 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.720 writing this book is to begin a discussion on the 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:15.840 biggest social justice issue. Number One, the FBI lied in 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.240 the affricat to get a white tap on me, right, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:25.520 and the judge allowed it. Now, the FBI lied and 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.240 the judge allowed it. Every single American should be concerned, You, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.120 Tim and Cattle, you should be concerned that the FBI 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.120 can lie and listen on to you. The second point 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.720 is there are no checks and balances for law enforcement 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:47.040 with its prosecutors or FBI agents. I want to jump 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.199 in because hence this really explains and you go into 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.160 it all of this in your book on even just 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.280 as hence the title, UM and I think we could 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.080 probably go for hours, and I think it's productive that 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.040 we do um, certainly as journalists and just society, to 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.640 look into measures in terms of how law enforcement operates. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.760 We've certainly had a lot of conversations coming off of 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.200 George Floyd over the last couple of years and just others, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.439 case after case on Wall Street or elsewhere. I guess 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.360 the point is bottom line. You know, many would argue 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.920 that the case against you was solid. Uh, we've seen 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.760 other to go to jail right as a result connected 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.080 with it. We think about a nil kumar um and 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.960 I'm just wondering, I mean, do you argue in the 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.120 end that you were innocent, that you that there wasn't 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.960 something There wasn't insider trading, there wasn't information that was 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.440 going on, or are you concerned about the process good 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.600 or bad. But that got to a case that many 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.679 said was very solid against you, and you were convicted, 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.400 and you tried to appeal it and it and it 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.880 still was undone. Those are great questions, and let me 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:52.600 answer right as an American, I accept the juris credict number. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:58.120 Two Three years later, in a case against a quote 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:03.960 conspirator of mine with the same stocks, the same district 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:09.560 Southern District, the same cooperating witnesses. A jury found that 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.400 person innocent a different jury. I'm sure you're gonna ask 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.240 me why. That's because Anil Kuma, the government's chief witnessed, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.920 totally recanted on his testimony and said I didn't give 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.520 large any information that was useful, and that's in the 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.640 court documents. Five years later, as I said, the second 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:35.880 circuit reversed pre Barara's position, and one last point, Mr 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.400 Barrara himself in assembled the task force with some of 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.880 the same judges in my case and some prosecutors, and 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:49.400 the conclusion was the loser murkey and this tremendous confusion 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.880 of the market participants. Now, as a market participant, I 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.160 welcome rules. I want the rules to be followed not 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.480 only by the market participants, but the authority. Do you 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.880 feel like regulators, you know, don't really have enough information, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.559 don't really understand the way markets work. Are they just 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.400 getting so complicated and intricate that it is tough to regulate? Well, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.280 I think I can already talk about my case. I 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:20.240 don't think they understood the rules and the life of 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.880 an investor. Number two in their enthusiasm to bring a 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.880 lot of cases. Because remember this was in the aftermarket 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.560 of the financial crisis and made off and all of that. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.880 They wanted somebody that because the public were crying for blood, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.439 they didn't go after any of the big banks criminally, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.239 or so they tried. Many would argue that the prosecutor 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.000 prosecutors were looking certainly into the big banks, they didn't 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.480 look hard enough, right, And what they did was they 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.240 settled for billions of dollars. Now you know who paced 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.640 those fines, the shareholders, not the management or the guys 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.960 who did the mal feast. And they were banks that 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.720 were hiding taxes, I mean hiding assets of Americans. There 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.559 were banks that were doing a money launching for hotels 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.040 and so on and so forth. So I maintain that 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:18.280 I was not guilty. I respect the verdict of the 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.680 jury because that's the bedrock of this system, and I 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:26.760 will continue to talk about it because it's wrong, and 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.800 America it's looking for a criminal justice reform. It's a 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:36.560 bipartisan issue, and criminal justice reform doesn't stop with brutality 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:41.920 on the street. Now, I many much broader issues there. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.760 Very quickly thirty seconds, are you an investor still do 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.160 you still invest in the market. I do in technology, 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:55.520 in technology, and my passion is investing in deceptive technologies 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.440 and deceptive come. This is a great time to be 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.120 an investor. There's so much going from cryptocurrency to n 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.240 f t s, to cloud computing to security. So I 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:11.680 do we missed cryptocurrencies? Yes? Bitcoin, Yes do coin? Okay, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.080 we gotta run. You are jem. Thank you for giving 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.800 us time. I knew it wouldn't be enough, but I 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.520 am so gracious that you did give us as much 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.240 as you did. Thank you, Thank you, Carol, and thank 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.000 you to thank you ros. It's a pleasure. Ra Raja Rottenham. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.319 His book is uneven, just as the plot to sink Gilly, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.200 and there's a lot of information in that book. There 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.120 certainly is. Uh. Let's talk a little bit about COVID 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.640 right now, because most COVID nineteen cases in that we 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.080 are seeing trace to the omicron variants so far have 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.840 been mild illnesses. We got this news from the US 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.640 Centers for Disease Control just in the last couple of hours. 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.760 We're also seeing that vaccine boosters improved protection to as 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.720 much as SEV against the rapidly spreading amicron variant. This 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.319 is based on preliminary UK data, So Carol, we're continuing 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.880 to get more and more data about what exactly is 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.120 going on with this newest variant, no doubt about it. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.760 And back as he always is on a Friday, usually 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.000 Dr Ian lust Bed, a clinical professor of medicine at 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.280 n y U landgown with us on the phone in 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.560 New York City and so good to have you back 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.960 with us. The headlines continue, but you and I and 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.040 Tim know this. Um tell us about what stands out 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.400 for you, and especially that latest mask wearing that we're 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.240 getting from the New York Governor saying that uttering all 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.360 businesses to require masks indoors if they do not have 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.240 a vaccine requirement. Hey guys, Happy Friday. And uh, I 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:33.800 don't have any insight information on the governor, but I 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.760 can say that, uh, you know, mask mandates, UH, you 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.560 know can make sense in some circumstances. You know, part 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.480 of the problem is what kind of masks and how 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.800 they're worn, uh, and enforcement and uh and how effective 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.560 were they really when you already have infection throughout the community. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.160 So there are really a lot of questions. I think 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:02.600 the Governor's approach is trying to feel like they're doing something. Uh, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.280 and this is relatively benign. I mean, that's you're not 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.160 forcing anyone to get vaccines. Okay, So Dr Lesbia, that's 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.440 so interesting that you say that, because that's exactly the 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.600 response ies offering people on Twitter who are like, wait 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.480 a second. If you've been living in New York, which 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.080 you know, in New York City at least, which um 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.440 has really high adherence to mask wearing. Despite the complaints 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.440 that I make about writing the subway each and every day, 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.240 the fact is almost everybody except one or two people 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.400 in the car are wearing a mask. This isn't going 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.080 to change much for you. You You know, I agree with 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.080 you most people, although I was out on the streets 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.760 of New York and there are a fair number of 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.400 tourists and many people are are not wearing mask. But 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.800 that's outside right, That was outside right, Yeah, exactly right. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.040 We don't need to I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.880 but we don't need to wear masks outside right, totally 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.080 correct that You're there's really minimal, minimal risk. So I 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.040 do think, um, you know, there can be some benefit. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:56.800 You know, it turns out that for most of us 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.480 in close quarters, for example, seeing patients. You know, we're 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.720 we're wearing masks, and uh, it really is kind of 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:08.080 a thick soup. Right, people are vaccinated, we're partially vaccinated. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.680 You know, what's the benefit of a third shot? As 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.880 you say there, there does seem to be some benefit 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.440 with that. The good news is, at least based on 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.800 the data from South Africa and the UK, is that 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.520 this omicron variant is a it's probably gonna spread quite rapidly, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.560 be it does not appear to be giving severe disease, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.640 which I think was the relief news last Friday, you know, 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.480 when we saw markets about face from sort of minus 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.160 four hundred back back up a bit. So I think 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.680 eventually we are all going to get O macron because 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:44.280 we see even people who have had Delta, at least 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.840 in South Africa are are having uh infections with O macron. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.160 It does look like that third shot for the time being, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.960 really does reduce any sort of severe disease, which is 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.880 certainly encouraging as well. But I think, you know, government 0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:02.880 is trying to do what they can do. Let's have masks. 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:04.760 How effective it's going to be, It's hard to know. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.879 I think it will make some positive impact. Will that 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.280 just delay everyone eventually getting O macron? It's hard to know. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.400 My gut feeling is that probably most of us will 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.080 get it, will probably have mild infection. We won't even know. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.600 And part of the reason is we don't test everyone. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.560 We may test people and you get that COVID positive 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.439 or negative, but you don't know what strain it is. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.879 Just quickly, do we be worried about um? If we 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.040 all get a macron? Are there going to be long 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.120 haulers as a result of it? Like? Do weaker variants? 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.120 I guess if you can call it a weaker variant UM, 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.280 does it still have the long haul concerns? And just 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.800 got about thirty seconds real quick? Oh, I'm sorry, we 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.119 have a couple of minutes forgive me. No, no, I 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.920 think it's a great question, and you know, I think 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.320 it really is too early to tell. In general, most viruses, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.680 as we say, mutate to become more infectious, and this 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.160 is certainly an example of that. And most viruses mutate, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.080 you know, as a selective advantage to be less lethal 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.919 to their host, uh, you know, to the people who 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.840 get the infection. So if that's the case, I think 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.479 we will have less long hold to worry about. But 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.320 we certainly with delta, we certainly have almost a third 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.080 they say, of people who have had Delta may have 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.800 some long hold symptom or another. We haven't really seen 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.160 that with O macron yet. So fatigue and headache and 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.200 and O macron. The key feature there is this fatigue 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.720 element headache, muscle ache. So you know, if you have that, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.240 certainly it's reasonable to to get tested. You know, when 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.800 we do have you know, treatments. It's not clear whether 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.159 the monoclonal antibodies that were helpful for Delta will be 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.160 all that helpful for omicron. We haven't really seen that. Also, 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.520 definitely a thick soup. Well, I'm wondering dr les better 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.040 if indeed the data that we're getting that it is 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.120 is not as dangerous. And I want to be really 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:49.880 careful with my words here because we are still getting 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.680 a lot of data, but we know it's more transmissible. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.480 Is this potentially how the this this pandemic kind of ends. 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.320 Does the does the omicron variants spread and and we 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.400 all get it and hopefully that's okay. I think that's 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.320 exactly what will happen. Tim. I think we will all 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:11.000 be getting this highly transmissible to one degree or another. 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.280 Most of us will not feel sex some of us 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.040 may not feel sick at all. There probably will be 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.240 a few people who are immunocompromised who don't do well. 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.439 But I do think eventually, when we all get antibodies 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.000 to this and it spreads through billions, that will be 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.960 how the pandemic ends. There may be other variants, they'll 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.280 probably be less effective in competing with O. Macron. Uh. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.600 And I do think that's probably the scenario over time. Uh, 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:38.840 you know, unless we get a surprise, you know, more 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.600 lethal variant which doesn't hopefully will not happen. Hey, that 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.760 masse by center of it's at the center of an 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.640 investigation to a possible new COVID NIGHTEA outbreak in Taiwan. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.880 Or that's after I work at a high security lab 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.399 was confirmed as the island's first local case in more 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.320 than a month. Does that alter your thinking at all 0:19:55.320 --> 0:20:00.399 about this? Well, the whole situation with labs and and 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.560 viral manipulation, you know, it was always a big question 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.160 and concerned, you know, could there be other strings that developed? 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.600 It looks like at this point, oh Macron, because for example, 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.840 there's a ten day incubation period. I think this is 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.160 going to be our final variant. It's hard to tell. 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.040 I don't have a crystal ball, but I think, um, 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.359 we will all get a reasonable number of antibodies, and 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.919 if future variants come along, hopefully we will not be 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.120 so sick. And uh, ultimately, I think that's what will 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.960 how it will all play out, all right, Thank you 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.639 so much. Hey, have a good weekend. Dr In los Pader, 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.760 clinical professor, medicine and why you landgo medical Center on 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:41.119 the phone in New York City. How are you feeling 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:42.840 over there, buddy, I'm feeling okay. Now, I'm glad I 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.120 got a booster. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:52.520 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hey, 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.320 so we mentioned earlier in our boy to the Day 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:56.480 about a lot of more than eighty containerships that were 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.119 waiting two dock at the ports of l A and 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.159 Long Beach, California, cutting half an EVM, although, as we 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.320 pointed out, not exactly the case, right Tim, the vessels 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.359 are disappearing from the cure, actually hiding from it. They 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.480 were loitering out the Pacific, out of reach of that 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:15.760 official count. Everyone thought it was transitory. But well, just well, 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.159 somebody who's not hiding today is Mr. Ed Ludlow. He's 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.400 our West Coast correspondent at Bloomberg News. He's on location 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.520 with us and the Port of Los Angeles. Ed, give 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.280 us an update about what you're seeing. You were there 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.040 a few months ago. What's it looking like now? Yeah, 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.960 things are worse by all accounts. You know, it's interesting 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.679 because the data tells different stories. You know. You have 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.960 the ships that Carol is just talking about them, seven 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:40.840 of them, not just in the San Pedro Bay, which 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.720 is immediately next to the port, but even further out 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.840 tens of miles into the Pacific Ocean because they can't 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.240 get a birth here at the Port of Los Angeles 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.520 or Long Beach, and they're waiting on average three weeks 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.639 to come into ports to be on unloaded. It takes 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.960 three weeks to come from China to the West Coast 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.800 of America anyway, So they wait eating as long a 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.159 anchor as it took them to make the journey in 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.560 the first place. And all of that means tight inventory, right, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.680 tight supply. The things they're carrying and not making their 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.320 way to shelves. And you saw in the CPI print 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.679 this morning that means higher inflation. So wait, okay, better 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.159 than it was the last time you were. There are 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:25.040 a lot worse, Like, how do we measure this? Yeah, 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.000 it's it's a really good point. I was last here 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.359 in the last week of September and I put this 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.320 point to the Port of l A executive director Jean Siroka, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.480 are things better and how can you prove that? And 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.320 he basically said that volumes are the same, right, the 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.199 demand from the consumer is still great. The same amount 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.920 of stuff is coming in and that's a challenge. They 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.879 have opened the port, they say seven. Normally they'd worked 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.720 four hours a week or something, but they've opened. He 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.480 says that what's that What that has meant is, well, 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.520 you look over my shoulder for the YouTube audience and 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.919 for the radio audience behind me, are towers of contain 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.720