1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, 4 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: the man, the myth, the legend, the mascot, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: Hello, I'm a Max like item. Yes, you are the 6 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: Big Max. 7 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: Do you come with a combo? 8 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Though? 9 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 3: Only if you get the kids meal? 10 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: I mean, what are you happy? 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: Happy happy meal whatever? 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 3: I haven't eaten McDonald's Max edition. 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 4: You're a human happy meal though, And I'm sorry I 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 4: called you when I said I hate when people call 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 4: me big man or big guy what ever? 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: Really big bug bugs me? 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 4: So when I called you Big Max, it was just 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 4: a reference to Big Max the sandwich. It wasn't saying 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 4: that you're like some sort of stocky fellow. 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 3: I have my old friend Chelsea. I would call her 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: oll there. I'm like, what a big I say big 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: guy people all the time. She's like, stop calling me 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 3: big guy. Was like, all right, big girl. That would 24 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: knock over well. 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 4: And I should probably stop taking it personally because it's 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 4: probably not the way I'm here. 27 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, most people are kind of talking to themselves. When 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: they talk to folks. You know, I used to have 29 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: an issue with people calling me buddy because in the 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: United States, it's usually deployed in a condescending tone, which 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: is different, weirdly enough, from Bud. Bud is like a 32 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: respectful fist bump in a conversation. That that dulcin tone 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: you're hearing. By the way, ridiculous historians is none other 34 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: than mister Noel Brown because and they they have often 35 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: called me Ben Bullen. On this show. Today we are 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: exploring a story of ridiculous fast food history. It's just 37 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: before our cutoff, right, because historically, arbitrarily we determined history 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: cuts off with Max the superhero apartheid Gorilla. That's right, 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: what a guy, what a prime Indeed, and you know 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: Noel back. Not too too long ago, we explored the 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: mythology of McDonald's, of their their excellent work with mascots, 42 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: their yeah pantheon just so, and now we're looking at 43 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: with the help of our research associate Jeff Bartlett, we 44 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: are looking at a guy we didn't talk much about 45 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: in our two part episode on McDonald's and their mascots, 46 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: which by the way, featured Jonathan Strickland aka the quister. 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, how long ago is that? 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: Well, he was, he was behaving for most of it. 49 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: He was but a young quister. 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he was a quizzling uh with a Z, 51 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: not the not the very mean word. Do you know 52 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: the word quizzling? 53 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: I don't think I did. S. 54 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: Quizzling with an s uh means a trader who collaborates 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: with the enemy. 56 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: Good. I mean, that's not too far off from from 57 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: the quist. 58 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: I mean it is kind of in his character's DNA. Well, 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: who is this missing character we're exploring tonight? 60 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: Noel, Oh tonight. 61 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 4: Indeed, we would be tonight for this episode for sure, 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: because it is absolutely a nighttime character, a nighttime figure, uh, 63 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 4: a McDonald's mascot for the for the grown ups, you know, 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: whereas all the other ones, the Hamburglar, mayor mccheese, the 65 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 4: Grimace of that pantheon we previously mentioned, they're much more 66 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 4: geared towards children. But mac Tonight, which is an odd name, 67 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 4: it's like sort of like a concept more than a name, 68 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 4: was indeed a fictional McDonald's mascot character figure that was 69 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 4: featured in commercials running for a pretty brief window of time. 70 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 4: From nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine. He was 71 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: a sort of a Sinatra esque fellow that wouldn't seem 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 4: out of place in a cigarette advertisement. I've always pictured 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 4: like he should have had, like a cigarette hanging from 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 4: his not moonshaped lips. 75 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: His head was moonshaped, though, but his lips were normal. 76 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 4: Wearing sunglasses, often seen sitting at a piano. Bit of 77 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 4: a crooner, m hm yeah, yeah, sort of a mix 78 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 4: of Max's Headroom and Kinski from Night Breed if you 79 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 4: remember that adaptation of the Clive Barker novel. 80 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Moon Moonface, I believe in the movie in any case. 81 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he's he's a cool guy, tickling the keys, 82 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: tickling the ivory. And his whole thing is, first off, 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: he wears sunglasses at night, and secondly, he wants you 84 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: to know that he very much wants you to know 85 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: that McDonald's is a late night place. It's not just 86 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: for the kiddos at eleven am. It's also McDonald's after Doug. 87 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: McDonald's for Danner, y'all mac tonight. Get it? See pretty smart? 88 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: I mean I totally understand it. 89 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 4: Where sometimes companies get such a reputation for one thing 90 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 4: that they need to remind consumers. No, we're not just 91 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 4: for the kids. We're dangerous. Check out mac Tonight. Look 92 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 4: at this guy. 93 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: He was even based on a song about murder most foul. 94 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 4: Yes. 95 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Yes, And as a fan of Bertil Breckt, this is 96 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: especially interesting to me. At least some people found the 97 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: guy charming, some people found him off. 98 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: Putting, some found him downright Brechtian right. 99 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: And there are machinery, a theater joke, and there is 100 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,239 Speaker 1: a mystery afoot. We are over the moon to show 101 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: you why, explore together how this character became so famous 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: and then rejected, and why mac Tonight is possibly not 103 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: coming back. But before we do that, we want to 104 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: talk about the very first mascot for McDonald's, which is 105 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: just a goofy guy. He's just lovable. 106 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: He's a goofy guy. 107 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: Uh. 108 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 4: We're talking about Speedy McDonald, McDonald, the creepy clown, Hamburglar, Grimace, 109 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 4: you know, all the hits the pantheon we talked about. 110 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 4: We're not always the ambassadors of McDonald's that we know 111 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 4: them as today. Of course, this is out of the 112 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 4: side of the scope of this episode, but you know, 113 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 4: McDonald's was in fact created initially by people with the 114 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 4: name McDonald. Richard and Maurice McDonald introduced the concept of 115 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 4: fast food and were then bought out and screwed over 116 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 4: by ray E Krock, which you can see the story 117 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 4: of that portrayed in the excellent film The Founder starring 118 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 4: Michael Keaton as I guess the titular founder, although he 119 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 4: wasn't really the founder. In fact, the founders were Richard 120 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 4: and Maurice McDonald's. 121 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: He was like the popularizer, that's right. 122 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 4: He saw the vision that they already kind of had, 123 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 4: but he saw dollar signs and like he already you know, 124 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 4: was envisioning that. However, many billions served that you see 125 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 4: on the McDonald's golden arches sign. 126 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: And the crazy uniformity with the sesame seeds and so on. 127 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: That's croc. I love that you're bringing this up. When 128 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: Richard and Maurice mac McDonald, when they introduce McDonald as 129 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: a concept, they also introduce what is called the Speedy 130 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: Service System spe DE, and they sort of anticipated the 131 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: rise of what we call fast food today. This system 132 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: asked customers to walk up to a window to get 133 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: their own food. You didn't sit at a table and 134 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: get a server to come to you. 135 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: They got rid of the middleman more or less and 136 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 4: decided to serve the customers directly. 137 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: You know, you'd pay it. 138 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it evolved, but even today you 139 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 4: pay it one window, I mean, if you're doing the 140 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 4: drive through thing, and then you roll over to the 141 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 4: next one in the hand of your bag, hopefully in 142 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 4: a speedy fashion. But that speedy system came with a character, 143 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 4: a mascot of the same name, to kind of really 144 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 4: hit home the message and clarify exactly what they were 145 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 4: all about there at McDonald's, that speedy service life. 146 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, they also shed a lot of choice in favor 147 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: of quick delivery. So McDonald's and like many other restaurants 148 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: at the time, they stripped down their menu just burgers, fries, 149 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: soft drinks, you know, and occasionally they would branch out 150 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: later to apple pies things like that. But the point 151 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: was you get in, you get your food as quickly 152 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: as possible. This was such a new idea that, as 153 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: you were saying, they had to have some sort of 154 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: friendly figure to explain this so it didn't sound like 155 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: a ted talk. And when they got the speedy service system. 156 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: They wanted to humanize it or anthropomorphize it, I should say, 157 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: with this guy who is who's he's always kind of 158 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: winking at you. He's a cook, but despite being a cook, 159 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: he has a bow tie, and he's got a hamburger 160 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: for a head, and despite being very quick conceptually, he 161 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: also has a pot belly because he's very well fed. 162 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, he obviously pulls off little pieces of his 163 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 4: own head and eats it, which is an abomination if 164 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 4: you ask me. 165 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: But it did, you know, kind of bring that message home. 166 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: People did understand what Speedy was about and what the 167 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 4: Speedy service system was all about. 168 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: And you know, he was more of an on site 169 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: kind of presence. 170 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 4: Than a anthromorphic cartoon or person wearing a suit that 171 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: would appear in television commercials. He was retired, you know, 172 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 4: entirely in nineteen sixty two, and before that time didn't 173 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: appear in a single commercial. Yeah. 174 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Part of it was the fact that other companies 175 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: were making mascots. In particular, Alka Seltzer had a mascot 176 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:43,119 Speaker 1: called Speedy spelled speed Y, So yeah, and confusion potentially, 177 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: right exactly. And if you go to folks like Alan 178 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: Hess researching for the Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians. 179 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: You'll see that you'll see something that Kroc and McDonald's 180 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: recognize pretty immediately. Folks were identify McDonald's with those Golden 181 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: arches which came out in nineteen sixty one. They were 182 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: thinking of that more so than they were thinking of 183 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: this weird ware Hamburger that wants to give you fries. 184 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: Very quickly, so as the story goes, they dropped this 185 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: mascot Speedy and they replaced him with an absolutely terrifying 186 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: guy named Ronald McDonald who wants to hang out with 187 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: children across the world and make them eat French fries. 188 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, it's a little weird, and actually it occurs 189 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 4: to me, I wonder how far ahead of John Wayne 190 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 4: Gacy Ronald McDonald was. 191 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a point I brought up on stuff 192 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. In the past. The 193 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: colorophobia of the Western world can be traced, in my opinion, 194 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: to Gacy, to John WAYN. Gasey, the serial killer who 195 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: was also a part time clown. In other parts of 196 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: the world, clowns are still cool, totally. 197 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it does appear that Gaysey's crimes took place in 198 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 4: the throughout the seventies, and he didn't really come to lights, 199 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 4: you know, in a public way until nineteen seventy eight. 200 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 4: So this whole Ronald McDonald thing was already going strong 201 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 4: from the early sixties. 202 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: And they took an l on that one. Yeah, no 203 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: supersize there, because America learned to fear clowns and associate 204 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: them with very sinister things. Now, if we go to 205 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: mash dot com, we'll see that our pal Felix Bear 206 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: says there is one Speedy operating at its original location 207 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: as in one you know image or icon of this character. 208 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: It's in Monsey, Indiana. The Monthly Speedy still has vertical 209 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: neon lights between the bottom of the arch and at 210 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: the top the McDonald's logo. 211 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's definitely something you'll also see with other 212 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 4: fast food brands like Rby's. For example, in Athens, Georgia, 213 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 4: there is a classic giant neon ARB's sign that hasn't 214 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 4: changed since you know, the original days of that franchise. 215 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 2: And that's something that like certain brands. 216 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 4: You know, think about they're like, oh, well, let's let 217 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 4: there be this kind of like a relic of the 218 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 4: past that we don't mess with. 219 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: And here's why we're telling you about Speedy. It's not 220 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: an episode about Speedy himself. We wish him the best. 221 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: It is to illustrate fellow ridiculous historians that McDonald's as 222 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: a concept as an enterprise has no problem with abandoning mascots, 223 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: with moving on to the next thing. You know, let's 224 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: acknowledge obviously, Ronald McDonald. Please check out our two part 225 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: series on the pantheon of McDonald's characters. Mac Tonight shows 226 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: up and he is He is a shot out of 227 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: the blue, right, he might as well be from deep space. 228 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: That's a moon joke, thank you. The whole idea was 229 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: that there was this guy who's like late night cool 230 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: jazzy type singer, and he says, hey, McDonald's, it's not 231 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: just for daytime. You know your kids are asleep, you 232 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: need something to eat, come on down to McDonald's. He 233 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: does not appear in McDonald land because that's for kids. 234 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: He's too cool. 235 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's probably the one that distributed all the McDonald's 236 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 4: branded ashtrays. 237 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: At all the locations. Remember that was the thing they 238 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: used to be. 239 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: You can probably still find them for sale McDonald's ashtrays 240 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 4: and matchbooks and all of that stuff from when everyone 241 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: used to just smoke them if you got them in 242 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: McDonald's locations, including the Playplace I would imagine, which is 243 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 4: the ballpit and. 244 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: All that good stuff. 245 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it was very much an attempt 246 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 4: to and they've done this other times, you know, without 247 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 4: like they had like the what was it? There was 248 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 4: an ad campaign that Jason Alexander participated in where it 249 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 4: was like some kind of like mic blt thing and 250 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: it was like it's. 251 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: A grown up sandwich, you know, for grown ups. 252 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 4: And then there was like the oh gosh, it was 253 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 4: just called like the Mac something or like it wasn't 254 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 4: the Big Mac. It was the Something Deluxe Arch Deluxe, 255 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 4: That's what it was. That was also marketed towards grown 256 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 4: ups with its potato bun and like all this kind 257 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 4: of faux gourmet trappings, and so this is something they 258 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 4: definitely continued to do after Mac Tonight. But yeah, you're 259 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 4: absolutely right, Ben, it was an attempt to let people 260 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: know that McDonald's was not just for breakfast and lunch 261 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 4: with the kiddos and happy meals. It was also for 262 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 4: a grown up dinner. Heck, cater your your dinner party 263 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 4: with McDonald's. 264 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: If you want to propose, why not take her to 265 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: McDonald's after nine pm? Yeah, or she would mac Tonight 266 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: would sit at his piano in the clouds and he 267 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: would sing a song. And it's a song that we'll 268 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: play for you later. It's all about how awesome McDonald's 269 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: is at night. To the earlier point there, it is 270 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: a parody plagiarizing the melody of a previous song called 271 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: Mac the Knife, which at that point had been performed 272 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: by some of the most famous singers in the Western world, 273 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Bobby Darren, Frank Sinatra. The mac Tonight version is way 274 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: less bloody, but it was purposely designed and deployed to 275 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: leverage baby boomer nostalgia of the nineteen fifties, and for 276 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: a time this was incredibly successful. Just for a reminder, 277 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: because I don't think we mentioned it earlier, this guy 278 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: mac Tonight was only in play seriously for like three 279 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: years nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine. So there's 280 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: this advertising company that gets this pitch going with McDonald's. 281 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: They get a budget of half a million dollars, which 282 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: is huge money. And they say we're going to make 283 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: four commercials. Each one has Mac the crescent moon faced 284 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: guy front and center. He's playing his piano. He's singing 285 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: his new jingle, which is set to the tune of 286 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: Mac the Knife. We'd love to play one example for 287 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: you here, folks. 288 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: Oh we must when. 289 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 3: The club starts half that six. 290 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: Term to hit fun go line, it's a good time. 291 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: For the. 292 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 4: Dinner. 293 00:17:51,920 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: McDon come on back tonight. 294 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it. Same. 295 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 296 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 4: Well, and you know, and the commercial that you found 297 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 4: ben it very clearly highlights salads and other things that 298 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 4: adults might enjoy. 299 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: I have to jump in that. That's what jumped out 300 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 3: to me. That was the shittiest looking solid of ever. 301 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: Come on, McDonald's. 302 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: Actually at my mom always says they have great salads there, 303 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 3: mcdonaldsley here is a stated condition. 304 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: But I looked at that thing. 305 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh god, that looks like it's been in 306 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: the fridge for three weeks. 307 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 4: I mean, food picks in those days always looked kind 308 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 4: of awful. 309 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: The technology just wasn't there. 310 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: As someone who managed restaurants, it was one time task 311 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 3: to take food picks and then was after take after 312 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: he did the food picks. No longer task to take 313 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 3: food picks. 314 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: There was most of the food food photography you see 315 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: is not the actual food. I got a friend of 316 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: the show and how stuff works back in the day. 317 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: Lizzie Johnston is a food photographer and learning all the 318 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: tricks of the trade is fascinating. 319 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, Oftentimes that shine comes from like being coded in, 320 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 4: like a clear nail polish, you know, ice cream. If 321 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 4: you see the perfect rolled you know, spheres of ice cream, 322 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 4: it's some sort of weird composite clay thing. 323 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: That mixture may vary. 324 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 4: There's tons of crazy tricks around that stuff and ways 325 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 4: to get things to look kind of preternaturally crisp and fresh. 326 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 4: But you don't want to eat any of that stuff. 327 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 4: You would probably die instantly. 328 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: Might be an episode history of food photography. Also, at 329 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: some point we might have to add a sound cube 330 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: because I keep pitching new episodes while we're recording. We 331 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: follow up on some of them. I think we got 332 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: a good track record, sort of like mac Tonight had 333 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: a good track record in their initial marketing campaign. It 334 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: was so successful that the boffins, the c suite, the 335 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: suits had McDonald said, let's roll this out across the country. 336 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: So they launched this nationwide campaign and they had the 337 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: mascot Mac Tonight uppear in Bocovertad in Florida. Can I 338 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: get some like a high level, high drama, fancy city music. 339 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: They were good Buco Ratal Flora. And it's kind of 340 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: a big deal. It's not as big as when the 341 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: Beatles performed on that rooftop. But uh, but you see 342 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: Mac Tonight performing performing on a rooftop, people go crazy. 343 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: But the big question is who created this crazy crooning 344 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: crescent cranium. 345 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 4: Ooh I wrote that. Yeah, it's good, he said it. 346 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 4: Brad A Ball Real Days was responsible for this. He 347 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 4: really loved the melody of that song. He really loved 348 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: the potential for nostalgia mining. In nineteen eighty six, Mac 349 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 4: the Knife originally written by Kurt Viile and Berthold Brett 350 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 4: for the Three Penny Opera. Its original incarnation very different 351 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 4: from the kind of more hit parade version that made 352 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 4: a number one hit for Bobby Darren in nineteen fifty nine. 353 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 4: And there's something about this, you know, just screamed like 354 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 4: this is this is adult, this is you know, there's 355 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 4: something You're right, Ben it's that baby boomer kind of 356 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 4: nostalgia thing that just that kind of crooning, you know, 357 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 4: hepcat finger snap and melody really evokes. So he decided 358 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 4: to pitch one of his biggest clients, which was an 359 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 4: organization called the McDonald's Operators Association of Southern California. 360 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: Ye, that's kind of shady, right, which part McDonald's Operators 361 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: Association of Southern California sounds like it's close to McDonald's 362 00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: but not McDonald's. 363 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: That's true. 364 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 4: But I also know that, like you know, McDonald's is 365 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 4: all about franchisees, right, So it seems like maybe this 366 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 4: was pitched as more of a regional thing that would 367 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 4: you know, be participated in by you know, folks in 368 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 4: this part of the country, in southern California. They thought 369 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 4: it would like hit better there because people are like 370 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 4: cooler or smarter or something or more adult, I don't know. 371 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: And by the way, Brad A. 372 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: Ball was the president of the ad organization or the 373 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: ad agency Davis. 374 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: Johnson, Mogul and Colombato. 375 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 4: Incorporated DJMC for short, which was a relatively speaking small 376 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 4: advertising agency there in La. His creative director, a guy 377 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 4: named Peter Kutrulis kind of took his homework assignment and 378 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 4: ran with it, listening to tons of different versions, which 379 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 4: there were many of this song, Mack the Knife by 380 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: folks arranging from Bobby Darren himself to Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra. 381 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 4: Liberachi even worked up a a version that was very, 382 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 4: very popular, and he of course knew that, you know, 383 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 4: it needed to have some MacDonald's centric lyrics, you know, 384 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 4: weird Al who was also pretty big at the time. 385 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: So you got to wonder if, like there is something 386 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 2: about that and. 387 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: His Waffle King's a banger? Have you ever Waffle King. 388 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: At What's what's that parody of? 389 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 4: Uh? 390 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: It is a It is a guy called himself the 391 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: Waffle King who realizes that he is the god of waffles. 392 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: So it's just a it's not a parody. It's just 393 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: like one of his original songs. 394 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 4: Don't know the full context. He just has a weird 395 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 4: banger song. He definitely has those non parody weird al 396 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 4: versions that usually do not go, yeah, do not stick, 397 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 4: of course, not quite stick to the public consciousness the 398 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 4: way you know, fat or Eat It or any of. 399 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: His other anthems go. 400 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 4: But you know, he was hugely popular, and I can 401 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 4: only imagine that that maybe figured into we need to 402 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 4: do a great parody song in incorporating McDonald's messaging into 403 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 4: a song that the people of the generation we're trying 404 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 4: to attract will no doubt be intimately familiar with. 405 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, because this is a war. They are in the 406 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: trenches of what will later be called the Burger Wars, 407 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: the fast escalating fast food fight to get into the 408 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: bellies of American consumers. This is where macdnight comes from. 409 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: And look, folks, you don't have to you don't have 410 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: to delve too deep to realize the nineteen eighties commercial 411 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: culture was weird. 412 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: Okay. 413 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: He got the voice of macdnighte by guy named Roger Bear. 414 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: Bear passed away unfortunately in twenty eighteen, but he's a 415 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: hugely talented actor. He did a lot of voice work. 416 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: He also side note, thanks to our pal Jeff, he 417 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: voiced two Transformers characters. 418 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: Is this in Transformers the motion picture or in the cartoon? Unclear? 419 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 4: Okay, fair enough, I'm not familiar with these. These seem 420 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 4: like deep cut Transformers run about and run amok Are 421 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: they Okay? 422 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: So I guess they're a package deal. They can't. 423 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 4: They have to be like I love this part of 424 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 4: the story because we know and love here ridiculous history 425 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 4: the work of Doug Jones, who is just an. 426 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: Incredible physical actor. 427 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 4: I mean, he has a background in mime in the 428 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: theater and has portrayed iconic kind of costumed characters, ranging 429 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 4: from the kind of creature from The Black Lagoon, Star 430 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 4: of the Shape of Water by Guillelmo del Toro. He 431 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 4: was the thin or is it the thin man in 432 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 4: Pans Labyrinth with the creepy hands and the eyes of 433 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 4: his palms. Absolutely, guy is the physical actor. He's not 434 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 4: the d mac tonight. You know, he was this this 435 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 4: this really was his first kind of breakout role that 436 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 4: led to what was to come for him, which included 437 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 4: like playing bit parts on shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. 438 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: He is what returns. 439 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 4: Batman returns exactly. That's another I think that's maybe his 440 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 4: first big screen performance. He plays like an acrobatic clown 441 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 4: in the Penguin's Crew in that film, but he gets 442 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 4: his kind of big shot portraying the physical embodiment of 443 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 4: adult McDonald's mac Tonight in this marketing campaign that as 444 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 4: you mentioned, Ben had a pretty hefty budget for the 445 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 4: time half a million bucks. 446 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 447 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the the guys at DJMC, they choose Jones 448 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: because he is tall, and he is third and he 449 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: has legit bona fide experience with mymery, with the arts 450 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: of the mind. He's also very animated physically, which is 451 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: essential for this character. And like you were saying earlier, 452 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: Jones credits his stint as Mac Tonight doing these commercials 453 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: as paving his way to overall success as an actor 454 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: and entertainer. In twenty thirteen, he's talking to Collider and 455 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: he says, look, I played this Mac to Night character 456 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: in twenty seven commercials over just those three years. And 457 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: because of those twenty seven commercials, I got all these referrals. 458 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: People kept coming to me and offering me new, more expansive, 459 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: more substantive roles. We could also argue this nostalgia or 460 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: this gratitude is why Doug Jones came back in the 461 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties to do two more Mac Tonight commercials 462 00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: during a very short lived revival for the character reasons. 463 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: And it's it's weird because backstory, I don't think any 464 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: of this is on air, but on our other show 465 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. We were about 466 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: to record. We talked a little bit about Max Headroom 467 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: and how influential Max Headroom was as a character, later 468 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: becoming a very strange and specific Playboy Centerfold parody. Mac 469 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: Tonight is inspired by Max Headroom. 470 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 4: Well, it came up in our conversation that you're referencing, man, 471 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 4: how come you don't ever see sexy Max Headroom costumes 472 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 4: around Halloween time? Might be a little too much of 473 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 4: a deep cut, but you pointed out that surely it's 474 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 4: been done and definitely in the eighties when Max Headroom 475 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 4: was inescapable. He's kind of this like computer generated sort 476 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 4: of talk show host. 477 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: Like you said up kind, and of course he was. 478 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 4: You can see him portrayed in Back to the Future 479 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 4: Part two when they go to that kind of like 480 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 4: nostalgia diner or whatever, when Marty McFly like gets punked 481 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 4: by those kids, one of which is played by a 482 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 4: very baby little Elijah Wood for having to use his 483 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 4: hands for playing a video game of the gun game 484 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 4: or he's used to impressing the heck out of people 485 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 4: with that, and these kids just roll their eyes, and 486 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 4: you know, so he doesn't have telepathy. I guess like 487 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 4: everyone in the future does. That never really gets addressed again. 488 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 4: It's always bugged me a little bit, like you have 489 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 4: to use your hands, Like what do you mean, Little 490 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 4: Elijah Wood. But Max Headroom was also of course used 491 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 4: in like a big old kind of early hecking kind 492 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 4: of scam. 493 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: Right right the Max Headroom incident, and you could check 494 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: out stuff they don't want you to know. For more 495 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: information on that, we think we may have solved the case. 496 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: Shout out to the actor portraying Max Headroom, a guy 497 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: named Matt Frewer. Max Headroom was computer generated, but still 498 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties, or the idea was that 499 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: he's an AI computer generated personality. They couldn't do that yet. 500 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: The technology just wasn't there for a lot of industries, 501 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: let alone a small LA based ad agency like DJMC. 502 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: And so the firm's executives were going back and forth 503 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: and they were saying, well, should we just use real people, 504 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: known human celebrities in the advertisements. Why not have mister 505 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: t be the face of McDonald's for instance. I'm just 506 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: pulling an eighties reference. 507 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: I pity the fool who doesn't go to McDonald's for dinner. 508 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: And ultimately they said, no, McDonald's needs to have its 509 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: own mascot. Let's look at original things. There was nothing 510 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: they thought more original than Max Headroom, and so someone 511 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: in that writer's room said, we need a Max Headroom 512 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: for McDonald's and they nailed it with Mac tonight. He 513 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: got so popular that he even got his own happy 514 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: meal and toys, which used to be much more difficult. 515 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: Now I feel like, if you're a celebrity of a 516 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: certain achelon, you automatically get a branded happy meal. 517 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, and this also makes me think of the relatively 518 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 4: recent kind of adult happy meal thing that McDonald's been 519 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 4: doing with the bigger box and the full sized sandwiches 520 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 4: and like the kind of more like adulty collectible toys. 521 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 2: I got a few of those. 522 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 4: They were doing these like what was it, like something cactus, 523 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 4: I can't remember, but they had these cool I'm a 524 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 4: dorky collector of like figures and like you know, super 525 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 4: plastic and stuff like that. And they had this whole 526 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 4: thing where they had these like very psychedelic, weird, kind 527 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 4: of more like hipster figurines of like different mcdonald'land figures, 528 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 4: and I bought a few of those for that. But 529 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 4: if you think about it, this mac Tonight happy meal 530 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 4: and toy thing, if you you know, look at what 531 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 4: their whole branding play was, was kind of the first 532 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 4: adult happy meal in a lot of weeks. 533 00:31:51,080 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an astute observation. Macdnight gave McDonald's 534 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: a crucial edge, a mission critical edge in the competition 535 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: of the burger wars. He was a moon size success 536 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: for his time. Shout out to our friends at Retroist 537 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: for putting it that way. During this halcyon short lived era, 538 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: mac Tonight had a higher recognition rate of mid consumers 539 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: than New Coke and spoilers, folks. New Coke was a 540 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: huge boondoggle. It was such a quagmire that there's an 541 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: entire conspiracy theory about it, and they poured so much money, poured, 542 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: they poured so much money into advertising it all for not. 543 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: With way less money, mac Tonight was way more successful. 544 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: All for not. 545 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 4: You could also argue that for the conspiracy theory of 546 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: New Coke, that they did it all so that they 547 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 4: could then sell the public Classic coke with of course, 548 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 4: has maintained that nostalgic play kind of ever since, because 549 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 4: as we know, nostalgia and cocaine are a hell of 550 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 4: drugs and I think both were at play in this 551 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 4: Mac Tonight's scheme. It just the eighties were the big 552 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 4: time with that big ideas, lots of ideas that maybe 553 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 4: you shouldn't have ever seen the light of day, but 554 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 4: executives really thought quite highly of themselves in these days. 555 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: Like who greenlit the song oh make it You're so Fine? 556 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's the video, the videos, the 557 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: music video will take you places. 558 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 4: Also a weird ol parody Ricky You're So Fine, A 559 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 4: minute about I Love Lucy. 560 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: And as a result of Mac's overnight virality is amazing success. 561 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: The campaign, as we said, extends way beyond this regional 562 00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: McDonald's operators deal, real life Mac Scott's. There we Go 563 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: in real life Max Scott's. They would perform at restaurant 564 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: locations across the United States and thousands of people would 565 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: go to see Mac Tonight. 566 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 2: They would go. 567 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: Watch them do like do the song and I guess 568 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: do some bits. It was huge. 569 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. 570 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 4: I think they even rolled out some animatronic versions like 571 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 4: Chuck E Cheese, Rock of Fire Explosion band style and 572 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 4: they were so popular that even when they fell into disrepair, 573 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 4: I guess they didn't think about the long game here. 574 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 4: They just left them there as statues, which is kind 575 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 4: of creepy if you think about it. 576 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: Oh, one hundred percent. And also to your point about 577 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: the short lived mania of the nineteen eighties and cocaine, 578 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: it feels like built spending tons of money to make 579 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: animatronic sculptures and pieces and then just abandoning them instead 580 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: of fixing them. That feels very eighties to me. 581 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 4: There are these McDonald's coffee stirrs that I have seen 582 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 4: come up in memes and things. Is about this very 583 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 4: topic that were apparently really really popular for folks to 584 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 4: use as coke spoons. Oh wow, because they're like it's 585 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 4: like this long thing with a McDonald's arch at one end. 586 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: And just a tiny little spoon on the other end. 587 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: Oh no, I've never I'm not about that life. 588 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 4: I've just seen it pop up on the internet more 589 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 4: than a few times over the years. 590 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: That's wild. Also what's wild is the fact that this 591 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 1: is a show about ridiculous history. Mac Tonight is not around. 592 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: You go to your local McDonald's, you're probably not going 593 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: to see our favorite moonface boy, and it turns out 594 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: that we know why you're not going to see them. No, 595 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: we have to go back to that song, Mac the Knife. 596 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mentioned that it was about bloody murder at 597 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 4: the top of the show, which it is. I mean, 598 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 4: aint the got your bad bad Leroy Brown's of course 599 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 4: the baddest man the whole town, undred percent, and he 600 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 4: did some bad things, but didn't outright kill people in 601 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 4: the song as Mac the Knife, as evidenced by his name, 602 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 4: Uh definitely did. 603 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, these uh, these ad execs, they're caught by 604 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: the melody, the catchy tune of the song, not the lyrics. 605 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 1: So when they repurpose it Al Yankovic style, they make 606 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: it a PG rated thing. You know, it's all about 607 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: how it's Mac Tonight instead of Mac the Knife. And 608 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: they get confronted by the moral majority of the eighties 609 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: and they say, look, it's it's totally fine for us 610 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: to use the melody from this song. We're not touching 611 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: the lyrics. The kids aren't gonna know it. The baby 612 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: boomers just remember they liked hearing it on their transistor radios. 613 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know in their minds too, I'm not 614 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 4: sure it's interesting because you know, if even if you 615 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 4: don't use the original recording of the song and you 616 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 4: don't use the lyrics, if you're using the melody and 617 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 4: it's exactly the same, you still have to pay publishing 618 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 4: rights for something like that. There are parody laws and 619 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 4: things like that, but a lot of that doesn't preclude 620 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 4: you from being sued. It just is a defense you 621 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 4: can use in court, like a fair use or whatever. 622 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: Like when Fogerty got sued for sounding too much like himself. 623 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 4: Like himself because you know, owned the masters or the 624 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 4: rights to the publishing of his actual catalog. And this 625 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 4: this comes into play. But first and foremost to that 626 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 4: moral majority point. They are calling into question the use 627 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 4: of the song, to which the McDonald's defenders, the folks 628 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 4: you know, doing corporate pr are saying, no, no, no, 629 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 4: it's it's just the melody. We were trying to go 630 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 4: for this nostalgia thing. It's a little hard to make 631 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 4: that argument when the name of the character Mac is 632 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,479 Speaker 4: in Mac the Knife, Like, I just have a hard 633 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 4: time believing that that the guy that thought of this 634 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 4: and making these connections, you know, wasn't thinking about that 635 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 4: play on words as well. I mean, there's no question 636 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 4: that that went in, that figured into his thinking. 637 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: Oh, it's it's kind of to go dark with it. 638 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of like if Victorious Secret had a new 639 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: evil clown model mascot and they said, no, there's Jane 640 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: Wayne Lacy. Has nothing to do with John Wayne Gacy. 641 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: You guys are making it weird. 642 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 4: Ough gaslight the public, why don't you. So that was 643 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 4: one strike against the campaign. That was one strike against 644 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 4: the character. What brought it even further into problematic territory. 645 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 2: Was when the estate of the late great Bobby. 646 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 4: Darren filed suit against McDonald's for exactly what I was 647 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 4: just describing, Like they're saying, no, this is the song 648 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 4: and the styles, because again, you know, the song is 649 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 4: old and the three penny operas from nineteen twenty eight. 650 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 4: So even by this point that music would have fallen 651 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 4: under fair EUSt I'm sorry, under public domain if I'm 652 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 4: not mistaken. So they weren't paying the estate of Bert 653 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 4: Hoolbrett and Kurt Vile. But the problem is the hit 654 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 4: came from Bobby Darren and his arrangement, and his arrangement 655 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 4: and his vocal stylings. All of which are completely mimicked 656 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 4: in this ad campaign. 657 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the Estate of Darren says, mac tonight, 658 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: whatever you guys are doing to sling your burgers, it's 659 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: too close to what Bobby was doing. 660 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: You owe us. 661 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: Ten million US dollars in damage, right, and eventually the 662 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: estate drops the suit. But it's still a bad look, 663 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like walking into a 664 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 1: room after someone has just ripped afart. So it's a damper. 665 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's not a good vibe for the character. 666 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: And this is part of why McDonald's overall capital M 667 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: capital D moves into the nineties without mac Tonight. He 668 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: made a few more appearances every so often. We talked 669 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: about that short lived revival commercial run. But now unfortunately 670 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: he has become more associated with far right hate groups 671 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: using him as a meme. 672 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 2: That's right, I mean, think Pepe the Frog, you know. 673 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 4: I mean a lot of this stuff comes from like 674 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 4: four Chan boards, and you know, it's hard to even 675 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 4: trace where these things begin because it's you know, it's 676 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 4: kind of that game of telephone we always talk about, 677 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 4: and so many of those boards are populated by completely 678 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 4: anonymous folks hiding behind their screen names, and you know, 679 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 4: these kind of like kind of alt right weird comics 680 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 4: end up circulating and then they end up taking a 681 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 4: meaning in a kind of far right leaning, pretty gnarly. 682 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: Group sub group on the Internet. 683 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's what happened dis info asymmetrical meme warfare. 684 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: Forget the Burger Wars. Think about the the meme wars. 685 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: The info wars, not Alex. Not Alex's thing. So mac 686 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: Tonite did get revived for an ad campaign in Southeast 687 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: Asia in two thousand and seven, but we're probably not 688 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: going to see much of them in the US because 689 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: to your point, he inspired an internet spin off called 690 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: moon Man. This is one hundred percent Moonman is to 691 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: mac Tonight as mac Tonite is to Mack the Knife Like, 692 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: it's clearly coming from that place. And Max lookalike is 693 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: classified as a hate symbol by the ADL, the Anti 694 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: Defamation League, because it's associated with all these memes about 695 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: racism and homophobia and other nasty stuff, particularly because there 696 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: was a rapping version of the character that spread as 697 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: a meme online sometime around like twenty ten, and like 698 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: you said, Nola appeared on four Chan and the first 699 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: videos were harmless parodies, but they kept. 700 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 4: An early texta speech thing too, right, like kind of 701 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 4: like that radiohead computer voice exactly. 702 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good point. And this character gets repurposed for 703 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: these increasingly depraved videos about white supremacy and you know, 704 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: anti semitism, anti Islam stuff, all all kinds of nasty things. 705 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 4: It kind of makes sense if you just see why 706 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 4: they might have co opted this figure. 707 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 2: Nothing whiter than the moon, you know, sa geez. 708 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, well i'm you know, partially colorable. I thought it 709 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 1: was blue. Wait it changes colors depending on what time 710 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 1: of year. 711 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's a certain kind of snark and pompousness 712 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 4: that goes along with just like a still shot of 713 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 4: this moon guy kind of grinning with his sunglasses. 714 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 2: You know. 715 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 4: I can just picture some right wing internet weirdo seeing 716 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 4: that and being like it's perfect. 717 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: I've seen it from some of my previous research for 718 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: different shows, different episodes. We do have to note this 719 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: guy was falling down around twenty ten. He popped up 720 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: The Internet is se ephemeral shout out to Max, and 721 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: then mac Tonight was revitalized yet again, re revitalized by 722 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 1: the Old Rights in twenty fifteen, and this is what 723 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: prompted it was the proverbial fry on the camel's back. 724 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: This is what prompted McDonald's to pull the last of 725 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: all Mac Tonight themed decor from restaurants. 726 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 2: And this is why nationally, I mean, even like it 727 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 2: was just Donzo, and. 728 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: This is why you will still see a speedy maybe 729 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: out in Munsey, Indiana, but you're not going to see 730 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: Mac Tonight at a McDonald's new or you. And maybe 731 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: it was the right choice. 732 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 2: Maybe, I mean, it's just it is a bummer. 733 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 4: I thought it was an interesting character, but the whole 734 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 4: story is so fascinating. What do I care about fast 735 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 4: food mascots? But you know, I think we're all fans 736 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 4: of just following these kind of ridiculous pop culture moments. 737 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't be surprised. 738 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 4: Ben if, like that Mac the Tonight commercial that you found, 739 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 4: if there's some you know, McDonald's lawyers or whatever that 740 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 4: do their best to get that stuff stripped from the internet, 741 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 4: you know, because they just don't want to be associated 742 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 4: with it at all because of all the hate group stuff. 743 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: Oh good point, and I think we have been very fair. 744 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: But in case that does get scrubbed, well, we'll do 745 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: a punch in, but I think we're safe with that one. 746 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: It's freely available. We are compresting. Yeah, we're certainly not. 747 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to be fast food mascots. 748 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: I don't really eat fast food. I don't know what 749 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: mascot we would be for that. Would we be the 750 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 1: like the Sad Salad crew. I'll be the bag man, 751 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: you put the fries in me, I'll be the face. 752 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 2: Then sounds good. Max, who you want to be? The 753 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 2: guy in the chair? 754 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: We'll just call him the condition, you know what I mean. 755 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 4: That's that's the guy that's like behind the scenes doing 756 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 4: all the like hacking and computering and stuff. 757 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 2: It just seems appropriate. 758 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: Works with me, great, all right, great, and we also 759 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: literally work with you. So thank you so much for 760 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 1: tuning in. Fellow ridiculous historians. We love these pop culture stories. 761 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: We love hearing more about it. If you are interested 762 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: in learning the full pantheon or the rise and fall 763 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: of the Pantheon, we should say of McDonald's, tune into 764 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: our two parter, wherein we do light spoiler reveal the 765 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: purported identity of Grimace aka what Grimace is supposed to 766 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: be big, big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams. 767 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: Big big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed this slap 768 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: and bop and uh no, let's uh, let's crack on 769 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: the Quist for a bit. 770 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 2: We earned it, I think so. I think that's right. 771 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 2: Damn you Quist. Dare we stand for? 772 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: You're like a salad at McDonald's in an eighties commercial. 773 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 4: I'm wilted and it's still a little shiny because I'm 774 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 4: covered in nail polish. 775 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: We only listened to the song The Grinch because it 776 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,760 Speaker 1: makes us think of you. Big big fakes to Christo 777 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,760 Speaker 1: rasiotis Eve's Jeffcoat, a j Bahama's Jacobs? 778 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 2: Who else? Who else? 779 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: Who? 780 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 4: Ell? Hey, the rude Dude's over at ridiculous crime with 781 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 4: Saren and Elizabeth and who else? 782 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 2: Gabe Luesier check him out? 783 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: Ah yes, Gabe Luesier and of course no super sized. 784 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: Thanks to you, my father. 785 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 4: Thanks Buddy, I appreciate that, but see I said, but 786 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 4: we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 787 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 4: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 788 00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 4: to your favorite shows.