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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.

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Speaker 1: And guess what, it's media Day. No professional athletes with

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Speaker 1: me today. Fan favorite John Dennon of Roundtable Sports. I

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Speaker 1: always say fan favorite because people love that Johnny. They

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Speaker 1: love Jeff Jones too. Jeff of Thebelleville News Democrat also

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Speaker 1: has a new blog called Words about Birds, and if

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen, you should check it out because it's

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Speaker 1: a really good thing. Now here's the thing, guys, if

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Speaker 1: you like Cardinal Territory, maybe you want some merch, right

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Speaker 1: and we have plenty of merch we're talking about We're

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Speaker 1: talking about T shirts, we're talking about hats. We got

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Speaker 1: the hoodies, we've got water bottles, all quality merch, all

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Speaker 1: at the fair prices. So if you like Cardinal Territory,

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Speaker 1: go to Cardinal ts Territory shop dot Com. Took care

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Speaker 1: of a little business right there, fellas. All right, before we

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Speaker 1: start pushing more product, let's talk baseball. So, John, we're

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Speaker 1: four games into the season in terms of the Cardinals.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that you can glean from this small

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Speaker 1: sample size?

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Speaker 2: First off, I want to know why there's not a

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Speaker 2: Jim Katayes T shirt in the merchandise. I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: that that would be a fan favorite. Definitely that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people would be buying that lining up for it, Jim.

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Speaker 2: What I've gleaned from these first four games. Finally, after

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Speaker 2: long last four years of waiting, the Cardinals have Jordan

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Speaker 2: Walker and Nolan Gorman hitting at the same time. For

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Speaker 2: three and a half years, the franchise has said, if

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Speaker 2: Walker hits, if Gorman hits, they can be back in

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Speaker 2: the playoff hunt. They can be that team that can

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Speaker 2: be to have a dynamic offense.

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Speaker 3: Again.

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Speaker 2: Both those guys are mashing the ball right now. Give

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Speaker 2: Casey Chinnaw and Brent Brown, Brandon Allen, give those guys

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Speaker 2: credit because they have them both. They're not overswinging, they're

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Speaker 2: not pulling off the balls. Jordan Walker hitting a change

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Speaker 2: up on the outside corner for a home run was

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Speaker 2: a huge sign of growth. He wasn't flying open, he

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Speaker 2: stayed on the pitch. He drove it over the wall.

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Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman is not swinging from the heels. He's cut

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Speaker 2: down on his swing and miss. That's the overriding thing

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Speaker 2: that I've taken out of these first four games. Those

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Speaker 2: two guys are mashing the baseball at the same time, that's.

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Speaker 1: A good place to start. So, Jeff, when I talked

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Speaker 1: to Brian Brown about Jordan Walker, who's off to a

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Speaker 1: three eighty five start. Everything the Denton said plus just

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Speaker 1: one strikeout so far this season, pretty pretty good. So

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Speaker 1: Brand said, it's the great compromise, right. They let him

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Speaker 1: go back to the swing that he was comfortable with,

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Speaker 1: with some slight body changes that the data has said,

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Speaker 1: we'll put him in a better position to see the baseball.

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Speaker 1: So what do you know about this great compromise? What

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Speaker 1: are you seeing from Jordan Walker?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think that the way that you

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Speaker 4: should kind of look at how the process is manifesting.

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Speaker 4: And I guess the first thing to say is that

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Speaker 4: it's not going to be linear.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: They're gonna be at bats where Jordan Walker is going

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Speaker 4: to look a little more like his old self. There

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Speaker 4: are going to be times where the old habits kind

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Speaker 4: of sink in. That's how it works. But when you

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Speaker 4: look at the home run that he hit against the

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Speaker 4: Raised over the weekend, the change up with John is

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Speaker 4: talking about from Steven Mattz. Obviously, Stephen mats is a

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Speaker 4: guy who knows Jordan Walker pretty well, right, former teammate

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Speaker 4: has been around for the duration of Walker's career understands

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Speaker 4: sort of the challenges he's had in his swing. And

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Speaker 4: you look at the way that Matt's pitched him. It

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Speaker 4: was change ups, it was soft away, and then it

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Speaker 4: was sinkers in underneath fans, which is pretty much exactly

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Speaker 4: the way that you would approach Jordan Walker over the

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Speaker 4: course of his career thus far. And you know, the

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Speaker 4: thing has always been with him whether or not the

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Speaker 4: pitch recognition improves. If he doesn't have tools to force

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Speaker 4: pitchers to get back into the zone, then he's not

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Speaker 4: going to see fastballs on the inter half. He's not

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Speaker 4: going to see balls, and he's going to be able

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Speaker 4: to do more damage. With the fact that he was

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Speaker 4: able to take that change up from Mass and deposit

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Speaker 4: it where he did to the pole side, even in

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Speaker 4: the air, hit for a home run, that is at

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Speaker 4: least a signal to the rest of the league that

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Speaker 4: maybe he is not going to be quite so exploitable

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Speaker 4: in that part of the pain, in that part of

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Speaker 4: the plate rather because ultimately it's not like Jordan Walker

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Speaker 4: has to hit every breaking pitch down and away for

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Speaker 4: a Homer. What needs to happen is that he needs

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Speaker 4: to be capable enough of doing that that it keeps

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Speaker 4: pitchers off of that spot and gets him more fastballs

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Speaker 4: closer to the heart of the plate that he can drive.

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Speaker 4: And as long as he can be you know, he

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Speaker 4: doesn't have to be a guy who hits four hundred

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Speaker 4: and slugs seven hundred on pitches down and away. He

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Speaker 4: has to be a guy who's representative there to get

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Speaker 4: himself into a better hitting position.

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Speaker 3: And so far you've seen that.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about Jordan Walker? We know he's young,

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Speaker 1: and we know he can hit because we saw it

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Speaker 1: in this first year. Like I don't care what they

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Speaker 1: say on Twitter, right we we saw a young guy

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Speaker 1: who has a ton of upside what he could do

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Speaker 1: when he was scratching the service. We also saw last

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Speaker 1: year after he was at Double A working with the

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Speaker 1: hitting coach there who's now on the major league staff,

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Speaker 1: that he came up and hit for a while and

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Speaker 1: then sort of regrets. So what does he have to

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Speaker 1: do to stay where he is right now? Again, it's

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Speaker 1: only four games, but he looks like a more confident

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Speaker 1: and his swing certainly looks a lot smooth.

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Speaker 2: He's got to not be stubborn like and Jordan is

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Speaker 2: admitted in the past, like I've been stubborn. I've fought

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Speaker 2: some of the things that they're saying because I don't

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Speaker 2: feel comfortable. Listen to Brent Brown, like he's had a

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Speaker 2: lot of success in this league knowing how to teach hitting.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Casey Chenniwe when the Cardinal sent him down

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Speaker 2: last year. They didn't send him to Triple A. They

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Speaker 2: send him to Double A so that he could work

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Speaker 2: with Casey Chenniwe, who's in the big leagues now. So

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Speaker 2: you know, like you said, it takes some give and take. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Jordan wants to feel comfortable. He wants to feel instinct

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Speaker 2: show in the box. He doesn't want to be thinking

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Speaker 2: about all these mechanics. But you also have to listen

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Speaker 2: to these guys because they know what they're talking about.

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Speaker 2: And as long as there's a compromise there, good things

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Speaker 2: can come out of this.

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Speaker 1: That's a life lesson fellows. Right, Sometimes we got a compromise.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Nolan Gorman, two homers, Jeff already and

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Speaker 1: we see him kind of tapping into the power that

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Speaker 1: we've seen before. Looks to be a lot more confident

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Speaker 1: at the plate now, he told me. And I'm certainly

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Speaker 1: not any sort of hitting guru, but he said the

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Speaker 1: key for him is getting his plant foot down early.

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Speaker 1: And he said early for me is never too early.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the thing that he says puts his body

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Speaker 1: in a position where he can drive the ball. And

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Speaker 1: we're seeing it now. So what are you seeing in

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Speaker 1: terms of his mechanics as he's driving the ball?

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Speaker 4: Jeff, Yeah, you know the thing that stands out to

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Speaker 4: me watching him last night, especially right before he read

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Speaker 4: before where he hit the home run. We have all

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Speaker 4: seen sort of from that high home view right what

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Speaker 4: the swing looks like with Nolan Gorman.

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Speaker 3: When it doesn't look good.

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Speaker 4: You can sort of see what he's stepping way into

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Speaker 4: the bucket way almost past the first baseline on that

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Speaker 4: pull side. For him, the foot doesn't look quite comfortable

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Speaker 4: and he comes flying open, flying off of stuff low

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Speaker 4: on the zone, off of breaking pitches, off the change ups.

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Speaker 4: And last night it struck me because he had one

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Speaker 4: of those, He had one of those ugly looking swings

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Speaker 4: where the plant was kind of early, the body flew open,

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Speaker 4: he was over the top of a breaking pitch, and

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Speaker 4: it was like, oh, that was a bad swing. But

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Speaker 4: also it stood out to me that I hadn't seen

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Speaker 4: that many of them, right, that was one of the

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Speaker 4: very very few here in the first four games that

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Speaker 4: I had seen. And so, you know, when we talk

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Speaker 4: about Gorman being a guy who goes in streaks, part

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Speaker 4: of the reason that that hitters go in streaks. It's

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Speaker 4: not all bat and ball luck all the time. Part

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Speaker 4: of the reason is that guys get either out of

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Speaker 4: their mechanics or they get a little bit uncomfortable and

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Speaker 4: they start relying on older bad habits. And so if Orman,

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Speaker 4: like Walker, can sort of stack up those small mechanical

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Speaker 4: changes to get him in just a slightly better hitting position,

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Speaker 4: he gets to be a more consistent hitter, He gets

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Speaker 4: to get to his his a swing more often, he

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Speaker 4: gets to cover more of the zone. And you know,

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Speaker 4: the footwork I think is a really interesting way for

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Speaker 4: him to talk about that trigger, because that is what

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Speaker 4: stands out to me just watching him from you know,

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Speaker 4: from the fourth level up there where the press boxes

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Speaker 4: added bush Stadium, directly above home plate, you can really

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Speaker 4: see in his lower half when the swing is not

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Speaker 4: pointed the right direction, and it stood out to me

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Speaker 4: in its absence in the first few games of the season.

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Speaker 4: When he saw one bad one, it really drew contrast

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Speaker 4: with all the good ones.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Dan, you're watching him too.

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Speaker 2: Unless don't discount maturity in this, like people forget he's

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Speaker 2: still only twenty five years old. And Nolan Gorman said

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Speaker 2: last night, he's like, I was studying the way that

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Speaker 2: he attacked Alec Berlson. He was in the hole, he

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Speaker 2: wasn't an on deck circle, but he was the next

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Speaker 2: guy the Alec Burlison fastball, fastball change up. So Gorman

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Speaker 2: gets fastball, fastball and he's like, okay, get ready for

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Speaker 2: the changeup. Well, he threw him a cutter and he

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Speaker 2: was able to react with his hands and hit that

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Speaker 2: ball a long way. Don't let's not discount maturity in this.

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Speaker 2: Like Nolan Gorman was a young guy, he's still only

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Speaker 2: twenty five years old, and that says something about his maturity.

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Speaker 2: That says something about his baseball IQ studying the bat

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Speaker 2: two advats before him, the pattern that Clay Holmes got into,

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Speaker 2: and then he got the same pattern and he hit

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Speaker 2: it a mile. So you know, again he's had his struggles.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna be super hot, sometimes a cold. Sometimes he's

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Speaker 2: gonna fall out of his mechanics. But he's only twenty

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Speaker 2: five and he's he's maturing as a hitter. He's coming

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Speaker 2: into his body, and we all know if he can

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Speaker 2: just make contact with the ball, there is raw power there.

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Speaker 2: The ball flies. So cut down on that swing and

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Speaker 2: miss and make more contact and the ball's gonna fly

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Speaker 2: like this, flying like this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, JD.

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Speaker 4: I'm really glad that you mention that about Burlison because

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Speaker 4: I actually I wrote this morning for the paper about

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Speaker 4: Gorman and about Walker and what they're doing in the

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Speaker 4: early on, and that also really stood out to me too,

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Speaker 4: the way he was talking about that only his hit that,

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Speaker 4: but Burlison's at that right and that's the thing where

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Speaker 4: whether or not he was doing it before, it was

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Speaker 4: not a process he was necessarily sharing with us all

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Speaker 4: the time. And so to hear him have that conversation

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Speaker 4: and to consider sort of the construction of the lineup

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Speaker 4: that allows him to do that, because Burlisson and Gorman

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Speaker 4: are very different hitters and they're going to be pitched

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Speaker 4: in pretty different ways. But if he can take away

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Speaker 4: from the things that they're going to do to Burlis,

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Speaker 4: especially in that spot right where Holmes is working third

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Speaker 4: time through a lineup, so he's kind of reaching deeper

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Speaker 4: into the bag of tricks, and he is showing things

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Speaker 4: that maybe he hadn't shown the first two times through.

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Speaker 4: But if he shows it to Burlson, he only has

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Speaker 4: so much bag to reach into, right, And so Gorman

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Speaker 4: can draw some some some really fair conclusions from that,

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Speaker 4: And I agree that was a really interesting and really

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Speaker 4: positive way to hear him describe his approach last night.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and g by the way they called Gorman g right.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes he can look aloof because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: really like to talk about the nuts and bolts in

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Speaker 1: front of cameras, microphones, writers. But John, he's a good guy,

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Speaker 1: like you talk to him. He likes to have a

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Speaker 1: good time, he's lighthearted. Teammates love him. Sometimes. I think

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Speaker 1: when guys shy away from the media that maybe there's

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Speaker 1: a stigma attached to but talk about him as a

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Speaker 1: guy that at least the Gorman.

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Speaker 2: That you know, Yeah, I mean, teammates absolutely love him.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason that Brendan Donovan and Alec Burlson and

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Speaker 2: those guys went to his wedding like they were out

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Speaker 2: there because they are really really tight. Talk to his teammates.

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Speaker 2: They know he's the strongest guy on the team, like

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Speaker 2: Jordan Walker's bigger, but Nolan Gorman when the ball hits

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Speaker 2: his bat, I mean, this is a kid who won

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Speaker 2: two Major League home run Derbys in high school. So

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Speaker 2: when if he can just cut down on that swing

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Speaker 2: and miss, you know, the ball's gonna fly. And like

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Speaker 2: I said, he's only twenty five, he's gonna mature. He's

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Speaker 2: gonna come out of his shell a little more. We're

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Speaker 2: seeing it now. Like he he mentioned that thing about

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Speaker 2: studying Burlson's at Bad last night. He would have never

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Speaker 2: mentioned that two or three years ago. He's a guy

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Speaker 2: who's more comfortable, and he's in the lineup every day.

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Speaker 2: You know, we all know Nolan Arnotto's not here anymore.

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Speaker 2: He knows he's gonna play every day other than maybe

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Speaker 2: against lefties. But that gives a guy a lot of comfort.

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Speaker 2: I think he's coming out of his shell. I think

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Speaker 2: he's mature and we can see some potential.

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Speaker 3: You get.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the word maturity, and you talk about maturity

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Speaker 1: and then you look at JJ Weatherold four games into

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Speaker 1: his big league career, and Jeff, I'll ask you this,

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Speaker 1: like he's been described by Ali as one of those

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Speaker 1: guys that has zero heart rate, right, but JJ Weatherhold

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Speaker 1: already had his ton of first. You know, the first

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Speaker 1: game first was a homer, first walk off, all the things.

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Speaker 1: I just watch that guy and he does not look

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Speaker 1: at all like a guy who's got four games as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting when you talk about

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Speaker 4: guys who are in that stage in their career. A

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Speaker 4: lot of times we hear coaches talk about a desire

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Speaker 4: to see a guy fail to see how they react

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Speaker 4: to it right now because they don't want to even

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Speaker 4: do well, but because they want to know what the

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Speaker 4: bounce back is going to be. There have been a

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Speaker 4: couple of plays. There were some kind of early in

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Speaker 4: spring and even here in the early going where weather

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Speaker 4: Hold has had some small like less than ideal moment

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Speaker 4: a second at second base. There was a ground ball

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Speaker 4: in the first ending last night where maybe he could

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Speaker 4: have gone home to get lind door at the play,

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Speaker 4: couldn't get the ball out of his glove, calmed down, settled,

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Speaker 4: got the outer first. There was a play later in

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Speaker 4: the game where there was a ground ball up the middle.

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Speaker 4: He's going toward the short step, toward toward the bag,

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Speaker 4: toward toward Mason Whin and the toss was overhand instead

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Speaker 4: of underhand, and it looked awkward. It looked a little clunky.

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Speaker 4: But it's little things like that that are going to

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Speaker 4: improve as the season goes on and he gets more

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Speaker 4: comfortable when he readjusted that position. And also, by the way,

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Speaker 4: those were positive plays he got out some both of

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Speaker 4: those plays, right, those were plays where he could have

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Speaker 4: gotten a little tangled up, a little tied up, and

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Speaker 4: could have turned what should have been and out into

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Speaker 4: a bigger problem. But he said that old collected that

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Speaker 4: got the out that he had to get and work

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Speaker 4: through it. And you know, we say all of that,

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Speaker 4: and then the approach at the plate is what is

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Speaker 4: there even to worry about. We'll see what it looks

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Speaker 4: like in a week or in two weeks once the

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Speaker 4: league has had a chance to adjust to him, and

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Speaker 4: then he can adjust back. But the advats look like

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Speaker 4: a five year pro at this point, right Like you

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Speaker 4: wouldn't you wouldn't even blink, wouldn't hesitate to see him

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Speaker 4: at the plate, and so he has been as advertised,

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Speaker 4: he has been just about everything they could possibly have

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Speaker 4: asked for him to be.

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Speaker 3: And I think they would have to be thrilled.

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Speaker 4: I think if anything, they're looking around at the extension

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Speaker 4: that Cooper practis signed in Milwaukee and the Colt emerges

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Speaker 4: and Emerson just signed in Seattle, and get a little

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Speaker 4: curious about what that looks like here?

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Speaker 1: What is what has weather Hop done that's most impressive

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Speaker 1: to you, John Denn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, I mean the first thing you look for

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Speaker 2: with a rookie years like, is this stage too big

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Speaker 2: for him? You know, this kid is comfortable in his

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Speaker 2: own skin. He knows he can hit. He knows he

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Speaker 2: can hit it double A, triple A. He can hit

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Speaker 2: in the big leagues. I'm still waiting on that first

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Speaker 2: time he drives the ball to left field, over the wall.

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Speaker 2: He can hit to all fields. He can hit for power,

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Speaker 2: he can hit for average, he can run, he can

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Speaker 2: do it all. I go back to this with him, Jim.

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Speaker 2: His youth baseball coach was David Bednar's brother in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: He was on the same team with Jack Wilson's son.

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Speaker 2: He was on the same team with Neil Walker's son.

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Speaker 2: He's been around big leaguers his whole life. You can't

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Speaker 2: tell me that didn't impact him. He's not blown away

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Speaker 2: by being around other big leaguers. He's not, you know,

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Speaker 2: scared of seeing you know, Juan Soto because he's been

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Speaker 2: around major league players.

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Speaker 3: He grew up in the.

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Speaker 2: Pirates clubhouse, like he had access to that when he

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Speaker 2: was a kid. So I think that really has helped

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Speaker 2: his maturity at this level. And he's a guy who's

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Speaker 2: comfortable in his own skin and he's not scared on

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Speaker 2: the big stage.

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Speaker 1: So lots of goods so far in the season.

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Speaker 3: Some not so good.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that after the break. You're watching Cardinal

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Speaker 1: Territory on the Foul Territory Network.

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Speaker 3: It's blue Choo.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to have John Denton and Jeff Jones on

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Speaker 1: the podcast today. Before we get into the uh the bullpen,

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Speaker 1: which is not being great ABS right. Jeff told me

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Speaker 1: before we started Cardinals only one to have an unsuccess

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Speaker 1: or have a successful ABS challenge, but then said he

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Speaker 1: had a rant, and I'm like, all right, let's get

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Speaker 1: to it. John, what's your rant?

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Speaker 3: Hey, Jim, it's great. Uh. C B. Buckner had a

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Speaker 3: rough game the other night. We all know.

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Speaker 2: I think there were twenty five missed calls is what

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Speaker 2: it showed in the afterwards, but he had eight calls

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Speaker 2: challenged and he was wrong six times. I mean, that's you.

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Speaker 2: You want to get the call right. But here's my idea.

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Speaker 2: Well it's not my idea. I stole it from comedian

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Speaker 2: John Christ Jim. We need to bring abs into real life.

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Speaker 2: When when Jeff tells me that he could have been

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Speaker 2: a major leaguer if he hadn't hurt his knee, I

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Speaker 2: would tap my head and say, I gotta you know,

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00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 2: we got to review that. When when Jim tells people

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Speaker 2: that he's over paying us, I would tap my head

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Speaker 2: and say, hey, that's not true. Let's go you know, so.

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Speaker 3: We didn't bring that in everyday life.

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Speaker 2: When your buddy tells you he made two hundred thousand cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna tap my head and say it, let's challenge that.

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Speaker 1: So that's my like it so diff Let me ask

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Speaker 1: you this because I know we just had the bluechoo add.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to, but I think it could be

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Speaker 1: e masculating for a home plate umpire to have to

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Speaker 1: stand there after a challenge goes against him and goes

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Speaker 1: against him, and goes against him.

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Speaker 3: But so far, so.

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Speaker 1: Good, because everyone wants the right call, and we're getting

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Speaker 1: that just your thoughts and how it's gone so far.

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Speaker 4: You know, in the early days of spring trading, I

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Speaker 4: had a thought about something, and I was asking around

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Speaker 4: about it, and both of you have been there is

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Speaker 4: sort of seeing the face that Oliver will make when

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Speaker 4: occasionally I get off on a little bit of the

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Speaker 4: jag and don't maybe have not centered Babe in the

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Speaker 4: right place. But I was asking around one day about

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Speaker 4: what's going to happen the first time an umpire gets

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Speaker 4: a bur in their saddle, about whether it's I can't

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Speaker 4: believe this rookie is challenge in these pitches, or I

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Speaker 4: can't believe they're challenging five pitches in this inning. There's

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Speaker 4: gonna be something. I had this thought in spring. There

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Speaker 4: is bound to be something that's gonna occur with this

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Speaker 4: and blow and behold. Derek Sheldon gets chucked out the

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Speaker 4: first Sunday of the season because he felt like Ryan

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Speaker 4: Helsley didn't challenge quickly enough.

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Speaker 3: I guess at the end of the game.

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Speaker 4: In the meantime, there's noise in the stadium and you

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Speaker 4: can see on the video Helsley's like reaching for his hat.

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Speaker 4: He's trying to make sure the catcher hadn't challenge, but

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Speaker 4: where he's also doing it because they're trying not to

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Speaker 4: show up an umpire.

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Speaker 3: Right. All of that is to say, there is all

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Speaker 3: this weird social.

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Speaker 4: Expectation and interaction that goes in between hitters and catchers

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Speaker 4: and pitchers and umpires and when is a good time

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Speaker 4: to challenge and when it's a good time to not.

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Speaker 4: I think it is really interesting that teams by and

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Speaker 4: large have been really conservative thus far, that there are

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Speaker 4: a lot of teams that are trying to hold these

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Speaker 4: for later in games that you are really seeing almost

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Speaker 4: no hitters. No Granted, I'm watching a lot of Cardinals

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Speaker 4: games and haven't had a lot of time to watch

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Speaker 4: as much other baseball as maybe I would like to,

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Speaker 4: but almost no hitter challenges before maybe the sixth or

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Speaker 4: seventh inning of a ballgame because teams are so convinced

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Speaker 4: that the leverage moments for these are going to happen

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Speaker 4: later and they have to have access to ball. But

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Speaker 4: then I understand that thought. You know, as I've asked

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Speaker 4: around about this over the last couple of days, a

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Speaker 4: lot of people around the game have said, yeah, it's important.

434
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 4: Over the course of the season, it probably isn't worth

435
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 4: even as much as ten runs, but if you distribute

436
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 4: them in the right way in this, that and the

437
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,959
Speaker 4: other things. So they are going to be kinks to workout.

438
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 4: There are going to be strategic things to work out.

439
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 4: But I think undoubtedly the thing that a lot of

440
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 4: people may be suspected would be the case, and Ali

441
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 4: Marmle has said that he was sure this would be

442
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 4: the case and he felt a little vindicated by it.

443
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: It is a really good fan experience.

444
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 4: It's a little moment in a stadium where everyone can

445
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 4: root for the same thing, right Because you go to

446
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 4: a ballpark eighty percent home fans, twenty percent road fans.

447
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 3: Some people are just there to hang out, drink whatever.

448
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 4: But let me tell you, when the challenge system goes

449
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 4: up on the board, everybody likes to root against an

450
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 4: umpire and so it creates a nice little fun collection

451
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 4: of the crowd, everybody getting to come together and it's

452
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 4: here for the red desired outcome at the same time.

453
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 4: So it sincerely does, I think add a lot to

454
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 4: the fan experience. And you know whether or not it's

455
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 4: great for hitters, great for pictures, how it changes the

456
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 4: strike zone all fair questions, But it's an entertainment product,

457
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 4: and that's an entertaining process.

458
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: And it also kind of backs up where based on

459
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: the ratings and fans who watch games know who the

460
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: umpires to blow a lot of conflict Buckner, and then

461
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: you see it in real life and real time riting

462
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 1: fun of it. It's something that everyone can cheer about.

463
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk Cardinals bullpen pretty good on Monday.

464
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: There's Roycroft in the mix who's given up a lot

465
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: of really soft content. He's been victimized a little bit.

466
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: But the bullpen numbers are not good. So John, let's

467
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: start with you, because I thought, and I still think

468
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: the bullpen can be a strong point for the Cardinals

469
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: because I like some of the arms out there. They're

470
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: going to sort of have a closer by committee at

471
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: least at this point. I think they're going to settle

472
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: in on a closer But just your thoughts on the

473
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: Cardinal bullpen.

474
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, it's been rocky so far, but some of it,

475
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 2: like we talked about, I think Jeff wrote about this

476
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: as Matt Swhonson has been victimized by these little seventy

477
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: milin hoar flares. Chris Roycroft is the captain of the

478
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 2: swinging bunt that ends up in kind of that Bermuda

479
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: triangle between the third basement, shortstop and pitcher where you

480
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: know it just it kind of goes in the middle

481
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: of nowhere and those become hits. I think, like you said,

482
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: I think eventually this bullpen will stabilize. We all need

483
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: to take under consideration. Riley O'Brien missed two and a

484
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 2: half weeks of spring training. The Cardinals are bringing him

485
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: along slowly. I think eventually he will be their closer.

486
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: You know, they don't want to overextend him right now.

487
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: He has a history of forearm injuries. They want to

488
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: keep him at one inning. Right now, he's pitched in

489
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: the sixth inning, he's pitching the seventh inning. I think

490
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: as we go along, maybe next week that becomes the

491
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: eighth and end of the next week that becomes the

492
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 2: ninth in and he's the closer. SoJ Jojo Romero and

493
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: Rley O'Brien will eventually get to where they're pitching that

494
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: eighth and ninth and I think that will solve a

495
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 2: lot of the bullpen's issues.

496
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: Sorry, onnall looked really good last night. What do you

497
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: think the Cardinals have with the arms in the bullpen?

498
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think that there are a lot

499
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: of ways you can kind of look at the way

500
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 4: guys are slotted in how that affects the rest of

501
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: the bullpen, right. I think that the ideal version of

502
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: this Cardinal's bullpen is one where the second left to

503
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 4: you right now, that's justin Brule is able to handle

504
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: some of those matchup lanes in the sixth and seventh,

505
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 4: and so they're able to use Romero as a more

506
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 4: like split neutral setup man in the eighth inning, which

507
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: leaves them with O'Brien and potentially standic to use in

508
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 4: those higher leverage spots in the seventh and the ninth.

509
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: You know, when you kind of look at the group

510
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 4: of guys so far, Shards had won out and it

511
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 4: was his big league debut, it did not go well,

512
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 4: got hit hard, looked to get sped off on him

513
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: a little bit. That's probably gonna happen for a guy

514
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 4: who was a Rule five pick, who'd never been never

515
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 4: been above double A before this season, who maybe didn't

516
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 4: necessarily expect to be on the roster. I think that,

517
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 4: you know, in an alternate universe where the Cardinals have

518
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 4: the ability to send him to Memphis, that probably is

519
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: more likely where he ends up at the end of spring.

520
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 4: But this is where they're at now with the rule

521
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 4: five situation. I think that Soriano has for sure been

522
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 4: a really nice surprise. He saw him throw one strong inning,

523
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 4: then he had last night the two winnings of shut

524
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 4: out ball. That's a guy who I would not be

525
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 4: surprised as he trusted with a little more, a little more, you.

526
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: Know, when you think about the way, for instance, that.

527
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 4: Ryan Fernandez, when he was really good in twenty twenty four,

528
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 4: did not pitch at all the first series of the

529
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: season at Dodger Stadium. There was clearly some hesitance to

530
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 4: kind of work him into that rotation.

531
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 3: Eventually reached the point in.

532
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: San Diego where they were just out of guys and

533
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 4: Fernandez had to pitch, and he pitched well and then

534
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 4: earned it and earned it and earned it. Soriano in

535
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: a similar way, it was one of the last guys

536
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 4: to get into a game.

537
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: Has now pitched well twice.

538
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 4: If he stacks up a third one, a fourth one,

539
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 4: then you're going to see that kind of expand O'Brien's

540
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 4: been fine, Romero has been frying. Stanik has not been

541
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 4: maybe exactly what you want. The walks are a little high,

542
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 4: the velocity is.

543
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 3: Maybe not quite exactly where you want it.

544
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: As a veteran who you would hope understands himself, understands

545
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 4: his body well enough that he's going to get himself

546
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: into a spot or he's able to compete the way

547
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 4: that he wants to compete.

548
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: But you know, the really interesting trick here, and JD.

549
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: Talks talking about Sponson and talking about Roycroft, a little

550
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 4: bit of a challenge the Cardinals have here is that

551
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: they don't really have a lot of moving parts, right

552
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 4: like when you think about Shard with the forty man restriction,

553
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 4: and you think about with with the World five restriction, sorry,

554
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 4: and you think about Soriano being a guy who doesn't

555
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 4: have any options, that kind of only leaves you with

556
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 4: Sponson and and and Roycroft as the guys who can

557
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 4: go up and down and sponson. You know, through sixty

558
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: innings for this team last year, wasn't just like a

559
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 4: two week guy who through Lee was one of the

560
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 4: leaders innnings out of the bullpen last year and had

561
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 4: an era under two. So it's really hard to think

562
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 4: that he would be a guy who they would want

563
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 4: to send up and down unless that became a thing.

564
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 4: And so there's going to be a trick to kind

565
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: of managing rest and and and and innings for all

566
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: these guys. The Cardinals are helped that they're off every

567
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: Thursday at April, so they get a little bit of

568
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: a reset, hoping the weekend series all the times to

569
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 4: get these things together. But there, you know, there are

570
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 4: a lot of options maybe available of Memphis, but not

571
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 4: quite as easy to move those pieces around as they

572
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 4: might hope.

573
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: One of the pieces from the bullpen last year really

574
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: good lay Hey and I've been talking about it for

575
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: a while because he's a guy with six pitches, is

576
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: in the rotation. He started Monday night, he started at

577
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: the end of the season. I consider that sort of

578
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: a bullpen game. This is sort of his first real start,

579
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: and there was some good and not so good. I'm

580
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: a Lahy believer, John, What are your thoughts on Leahy,

581
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: because I think this guy is going to be a

582
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: good start.

583
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, I I'm a big believer in him. But

584
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: like I love guys who are smart, who analyze the game.

585
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: And when you talk to Dusty Blake, when you talk

586
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 2: to Oliver Marmaal, they will tell you he is the

587
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: smartest guy in that room.

588
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: You know.

589
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: Yes, his first outing he pitched well for five innings,

590
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 2: he kind of hit the wall, didn't get it out

591
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: in the sixth. Look at his next outing, look at

592
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: the work he does in between. He's a guy who's

593
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: going to go back and break down the film and

594
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: study every pitch. You know, he has a pitch that

595
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: goes one way, he has a pitch that goes this way.

596
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: He's got a you know, a sinker. He's got a

597
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: good curveball he's got He's going to figure out how

598
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 2: to use that arsenal better. And he's talked about I

599
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: want to be more like McGreevy where you know McGreevy

600
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: kept the Rays off balance by throwing the unexpected pitch.

601
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: H you know, I think we'll know more about Cala

602
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 2: Lay on his second start. Look at the work he

603
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: does the five days in between. He uses that aptitude,

604
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: he comes up with a better plan. I think that'll

605
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: tell you more about where Kala Lay is headed than

606
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: a first outing where he pay twelve for five minutes

607
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: against the Mets. Look at what he look at the

608
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: improvements he makes between now in the next five days.

609
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeff, he built up his body during spring training

610
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: to go five innings. He went five and then he

611
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: had some trouble. But to me, it seems like a

612
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: pretty good jumping off.

613
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: Point for him.

614
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

615
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 4: I think when you look at sort of the shape

616
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 4: of that outing, the line doesn't look the way maybe

617
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 4: he would have wanted to look at the end. But

618
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 4: other than Lindor jumping him as the first hitter of

619
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 4: the game, had four really strong endings, started to waiver

620
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: a little bit in the fifth and then and then

621
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 4: just kind of didn't have it going out for the sixth.

622
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 4: And for all the work that he's done and all

623
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 4: the work he does, you know, on the body and

624
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 4: prep to make himself ready to go, it's real to

625
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: have not, you know, to have not really gone deep

626
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: in a start since and I had top of my head,

627
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure was twenty twenty three was the last

628
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 4: time he pitched that deep into a game. It's something

629
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 4: that he's going to have to adjust to that he's

630
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: gonna have to learn how it feels, and he's going

631
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 4: to learn how he's gonna respond to it to maintain

632
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: his strength and maintain his stuff throughout a start. So

633
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 4: as a as a first start goes, I you know

634
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 4: would call that one. Probably it a B minus to

635
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 4: a C plus kind of right about what you would expect.

636
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: The why needs to clean up a little. He needs

637
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: to hold it a little more at least all the

638
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: way through the fifth and hopefully into the sixth to

639
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: put them in a better position to win. But all

640
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 4: in all, I think you know looked like himself. I

641
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: wrote about this during spring, like, how do you evaluate

642
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 4: whether it's working when he just looks like Kyle Lahy?

643
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Right?

644
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: Like, when he looks pretty good? The mix is good,

645
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: the stuff is good.

646
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 4: He's able to get through and navigate hitters and handle

647
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of kinds of hitters. And the answer

648
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: is does it sustain? Does he maintain velocity? Does he

649
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: maintain location throughout the game? That drifted a little last night?

650
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 4: Great it was March thirtieth. Let's see what it looks

651
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 4: like start two, Start three, Start four, and if there's

652
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: progress being made there.

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Speaker 1: See media day is fun. Gentlemen. I think you guys

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00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: knocked it out of the park. I appreciate you spending

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00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: some time with us. That's gonna do it for this

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00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: edition of Cardinal Territory.

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00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time.

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00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: Hopefully that episode won't suck