1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:17,165 Speaker 1: School of Humans. The Coroner's office has done an extensive 2 00:00:17,205 --> 00:00:21,125 Speaker 1: amount of forensic in the last several days, and it's 3 00:00:21,205 --> 00:00:24,685 Speaker 1: to my sadness and disappointment that I'm reporting to you 4 00:00:24,965 --> 00:00:28,845 Speaker 1: that it is the confirmed remains of my Trees Richardson. 5 00:00:33,245 --> 00:00:37,125 Speaker 1: On August ninth, twenty ten, eleven months after my Terce 6 00:00:37,205 --> 00:00:41,365 Speaker 1: Richardson went missing, State Park rangers were hiking in Dark Canyon, 7 00:00:41,885 --> 00:00:45,525 Speaker 1: deep in the Santa Monica Mountains. They were looking for 8 00:00:45,565 --> 00:00:48,165 Speaker 1: a marijuana grove farm that they had eradicated the year 9 00:00:48,205 --> 00:00:53,765 Speaker 1: before they found a human skeleton. The rangers were way 10 00:00:53,805 --> 00:00:56,085 Speaker 1: off the hiking trails that are open to the public. 11 00:00:57,405 --> 00:01:01,005 Speaker 1: They had accessed the canyon through a private residence located 12 00:01:01,045 --> 00:01:05,285 Speaker 1: on Payuma Road. Where Dark Creek begins, there's a hiking 13 00:01:05,285 --> 00:01:09,445 Speaker 1: trail nearby, the Backbone trail, and it's possible to climb 14 00:01:09,485 --> 00:01:12,525 Speaker 1: down from that trail into the creek bed if you 15 00:01:12,605 --> 00:01:16,845 Speaker 1: know exactly where to look. So they started down into 16 00:01:16,845 --> 00:01:19,565 Speaker 1: the creek, which is more of a climb than a hike. 17 00:01:20,285 --> 00:01:24,645 Speaker 1: They scaled giant boulders, navigated through steep and jagged terrain, 18 00:01:24,965 --> 00:01:29,565 Speaker 1: and hacked through thick foliage, sharp thorns, vines, and poison oak. 19 00:01:31,285 --> 00:01:34,845 Speaker 1: They found several items of clothing, a pink belt, a 20 00:01:34,885 --> 00:01:38,965 Speaker 1: black braw a pair of blue jeans. This was the 21 00:01:39,005 --> 00:01:42,285 Speaker 1: same clothing that my Teres Richardson had been wearing when 22 00:01:42,325 --> 00:01:44,845 Speaker 1: she was released from the Lost Hills Sheriff Station almost 23 00:01:44,885 --> 00:01:49,725 Speaker 1: a year earlier and started wandering through the dark alone. 24 00:01:49,925 --> 00:01:54,165 Speaker 1: The team marked the clothing's location and then continued their hike. 25 00:01:55,765 --> 00:01:57,965 Speaker 1: They started down the south side of the creek bed, 26 00:01:58,805 --> 00:02:02,805 Speaker 1: and that's when, at around one PM, the supervising ranger 27 00:02:03,005 --> 00:02:07,885 Speaker 1: saw a human skull and a legbone. He also saw 28 00:02:07,925 --> 00:02:11,445 Speaker 1: tufts of hair, which the ranger believed to be African American. 29 00:02:12,725 --> 00:02:16,005 Speaker 1: The ranger's cell phone wasn't working, so he radioed into 30 00:02:16,005 --> 00:02:19,725 Speaker 1: the dispatcher and used his handheld GPS device to give 31 00:02:19,765 --> 00:02:24,405 Speaker 1: them the exact coordinates of the team's location. This was 32 00:02:24,445 --> 00:02:27,845 Speaker 1: only the first and a long line of miscalls that day. 33 00:02:28,285 --> 00:02:31,645 Speaker 1: Miscommunication was a theme that would continue as the afternoon 34 00:02:31,685 --> 00:02:34,525 Speaker 1: turned into evening and my Teresa's family waited at the 35 00:02:34,565 --> 00:02:40,365 Speaker 1: scene desperate for answers. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is hell 36 00:02:40,445 --> 00:03:16,125 Speaker 1: and Gone. In our last episode, we talked about the 37 00:03:16,205 --> 00:03:18,725 Speaker 1: day the remains were found. From the perspective of my 38 00:03:18,805 --> 00:03:24,725 Speaker 1: Teresa's family, doctor Ronda and Tshaka, whose organization REACT had 39 00:03:24,765 --> 00:03:28,285 Speaker 1: been helping them with the search for months. But now 40 00:03:28,445 --> 00:03:30,205 Speaker 1: we want to take a look at that day from 41 00:03:30,245 --> 00:03:33,765 Speaker 1: the perspective of the police in the coroner. A lot 42 00:03:33,765 --> 00:03:37,045 Speaker 1: of what happened that night is contradicted and disputed, so 43 00:03:37,205 --> 00:03:40,405 Speaker 1: much so that the Los Angeles County Office of Independent 44 00:03:40,405 --> 00:03:45,085 Speaker 1: Review did a full fledged report in twenty twelve. They 45 00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:49,285 Speaker 1: produced a fifty five page report. Much of the dispute 46 00:03:49,645 --> 00:03:53,085 Speaker 1: revolves around who made the call to move My Teresa's remains, 47 00:03:53,765 --> 00:03:57,325 Speaker 1: because moving the remains before the Coroner's office could investigate 48 00:03:57,325 --> 00:04:01,205 Speaker 1: the scene destroyed the crime scene and ruined perhaps the 49 00:04:01,245 --> 00:04:04,845 Speaker 1: only chance of uncovering what happened to my trees. It's 50 00:04:04,885 --> 00:04:07,565 Speaker 1: not something and that was in a matter where you 51 00:04:07,645 --> 00:04:10,565 Speaker 1: have passed practices to allow you to do things together. 52 00:04:10,805 --> 00:04:13,765 Speaker 1: This is Lee Baca, Sheriff of Los Angeles County at 53 00:04:13,805 --> 00:04:16,645 Speaker 1: the time, at a press conference, talking about some of 54 00:04:16,685 --> 00:04:19,845 Speaker 1: the report's conclusions, because that persistence always leads to a 55 00:04:19,845 --> 00:04:24,285 Speaker 1: better solutions to stop this press conference audio isn't the best, 56 00:04:24,605 --> 00:04:26,085 Speaker 1: so we're going to walk you through some of the 57 00:04:26,125 --> 00:04:28,685 Speaker 1: conclusions that were made by the Office of Independent Review. 58 00:04:31,565 --> 00:04:34,685 Speaker 1: After the remains were found, it was immediately clear that 59 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:38,325 Speaker 1: law enforcement personnel knew that this could be my Terce Richardson. 60 00:04:39,365 --> 00:04:44,165 Speaker 1: This was potentially a high profile incident. The search and 61 00:04:44,245 --> 00:04:47,045 Speaker 1: rescue team from Lost Hills drove to the Payuma Road 62 00:04:47,045 --> 00:04:50,045 Speaker 1: address where the team had started their hike. They set 63 00:04:50,125 --> 00:04:54,125 Speaker 1: up an incident command post there. Meanwhile, the Lost Hills 64 00:04:54,125 --> 00:04:57,605 Speaker 1: station notified the two detectives with the La County Sheriff's 65 00:04:57,605 --> 00:05:00,085 Speaker 1: Department's Homicide Bureau who had been put in charge of 66 00:05:00,085 --> 00:05:04,365 Speaker 1: my Teresa's case, Dan Mickelderry and Kevin as Sabado, that 67 00:05:04,405 --> 00:05:08,125 Speaker 1: the remains had been found. Chuck Knowles and Steve Agucci 68 00:05:08,165 --> 00:05:11,325 Speaker 1: were the LAPD detectives who had been investigating my Teresa's case. 69 00:05:12,445 --> 00:05:15,045 Speaker 1: Their contact numbers were on the bottom of the missing posters, 70 00:05:15,445 --> 00:05:18,245 Speaker 1: and they were the detectives who had interviewed my Teresa's family, 71 00:05:18,965 --> 00:05:21,645 Speaker 1: but they were not the ones at her crime scene. 72 00:05:21,765 --> 00:05:24,285 Speaker 1: There are no proper names in the Office of Independent 73 00:05:24,325 --> 00:05:27,125 Speaker 1: Review report, by the way, so just trying to figure 74 00:05:27,125 --> 00:05:30,165 Speaker 1: out who was actually responsible for what takes quite a 75 00:05:30,165 --> 00:05:34,485 Speaker 1: bit of detective work. At two forty five pm, so 76 00:05:34,765 --> 00:05:37,445 Speaker 1: around an hour and forty five minutes after the initial call, 77 00:05:37,965 --> 00:05:42,805 Speaker 1: detectives Mickelderry and Acebado drove to Lost Hill Station. They 78 00:05:42,885 --> 00:05:45,445 Speaker 1: arrived at Lost Hills at around three thirty five PM, 79 00:05:45,885 --> 00:05:49,005 Speaker 1: and they and the Malibu Search and Rescue Team headed 80 00:05:49,005 --> 00:05:52,885 Speaker 1: out to the Payuma Road command post. At the same time, 81 00:05:53,005 --> 00:05:57,845 Speaker 1: the Coroner's Special Operations and Response Team aka SORT was 82 00:05:57,925 --> 00:06:02,365 Speaker 1: also en route to the Payuma Road Post. By around 83 00:06:02,445 --> 00:06:05,885 Speaker 1: four to forty pm, the SORT team made arrange to 84 00:06:05,885 --> 00:06:09,725 Speaker 1: assemble back at Lost Hill Station. They were standing by 85 00:06:09,845 --> 00:06:12,565 Speaker 1: to be taken to the site where the remains were found. 86 00:06:13,405 --> 00:06:16,725 Speaker 1: A helicopter airlifted Michael Dairy and Acebato from the Lost 87 00:06:16,805 --> 00:06:19,725 Speaker 1: Hill station. They were at the crime scene by five 88 00:06:19,845 --> 00:06:24,005 Speaker 1: twenty pm. I'm calling it a crime scene because as 89 00:06:24,045 --> 00:06:27,165 Speaker 1: a licensed private investigator and journalist who has covered true 90 00:06:27,165 --> 00:06:31,085 Speaker 1: crime for years, I know that all suspicious deaths should 91 00:06:31,085 --> 00:06:35,165 Speaker 1: be treated as homicides until proven otherwise, and securing that 92 00:06:35,245 --> 00:06:38,365 Speaker 1: crime scene until the coroner arrived should have been everyone's 93 00:06:38,445 --> 00:06:43,285 Speaker 1: absolute priority. Coroner's personnel were told that they would be 94 00:06:43,325 --> 00:06:51,965 Speaker 1: airlifted to the body shortly, so they waited at the site. 95 00:06:52,405 --> 00:06:55,925 Speaker 1: Detectives made their way to the remains. Michael Dairy and 96 00:06:55,925 --> 00:06:59,285 Speaker 1: Acebado saw a skull, a skeletal leg, and a pelvic 97 00:06:59,325 --> 00:07:02,725 Speaker 1: bone lying about forty feet to the south of the drainage, 98 00:07:03,325 --> 00:07:07,165 Speaker 1: partially obscured by twigs and lee yes. One of the 99 00:07:07,165 --> 00:07:09,845 Speaker 1: detectives took photos of the remains with his cell phone. 100 00:07:10,765 --> 00:07:13,725 Speaker 1: They then searched the area for any additional evidence and 101 00:07:13,805 --> 00:07:16,765 Speaker 1: walked to the GPS coordinates where the items of clothing 102 00:07:16,805 --> 00:07:23,805 Speaker 1: had been found. Later, my Teresa's mother, Latisse, would question 103 00:07:23,885 --> 00:07:26,485 Speaker 1: the accuracy of those GPS coordinates that were given to 104 00:07:26,525 --> 00:07:30,125 Speaker 1: them by the detectives. Some of my Teresa's family members 105 00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:33,645 Speaker 1: pointed out that although the terrain was rough, the GPS 106 00:07:33,725 --> 00:07:37,525 Speaker 1: coordinates were physically not far from nearby homes. The clothes 107 00:07:37,565 --> 00:07:39,725 Speaker 1: were found about one thousand feet from the house where 108 00:07:39,765 --> 00:07:43,245 Speaker 1: detectives began their hike. The belt was found about five 109 00:07:43,325 --> 00:07:47,085 Speaker 1: hundred feet from the house. These coordinates would become crucial 110 00:07:47,165 --> 00:07:51,325 Speaker 1: later when other investigators and family members tried to retrace 111 00:07:51,365 --> 00:08:00,005 Speaker 1: the detective steps. After dropping off the detectives, the helicopter 112 00:08:00,125 --> 00:08:03,205 Speaker 1: was supposed to pick up the coroner's office personnel, but 113 00:08:03,245 --> 00:08:06,605 Speaker 1: the pilot got a distress call. Teen hikers were struck 114 00:08:06,685 --> 00:08:10,245 Speaker 1: halfway up a cliff in a canyon at five point 115 00:08:10,205 --> 00:08:13,805 Speaker 1: forty three PM. The helicopter flew there, then picked up 116 00:08:13,845 --> 00:08:17,925 Speaker 1: the stranded hikers and returned them to the trailhead. The 117 00:08:17,965 --> 00:08:20,925 Speaker 1: helicopter was then due to fly back to Lost Hills 118 00:08:21,325 --> 00:08:27,565 Speaker 1: to pick up the Coroner's office personnel, but when they 119 00:08:27,605 --> 00:08:30,205 Speaker 1: were just a few minutes out, they got another call. 120 00:08:30,685 --> 00:08:33,605 Speaker 1: This time a female hiker had fallen off a cliff 121 00:08:33,725 --> 00:08:37,765 Speaker 1: in another canyon, so they re routed, dropped a paramedic 122 00:08:37,805 --> 00:08:40,725 Speaker 1: down to treat the team for suspected fractures, and then 123 00:08:40,765 --> 00:08:44,565 Speaker 1: flew her to a hospital in Pasadena. After dropping the 124 00:08:44,565 --> 00:08:47,725 Speaker 1: injured hiker off at seven o three, the pilot flew 125 00:08:47,765 --> 00:08:51,565 Speaker 1: back to the Lost Hill station. But by now the pilot, 126 00:08:51,845 --> 00:08:55,205 Speaker 1: who had thirty years of experience by the way, knew 127 00:08:55,285 --> 00:08:58,165 Speaker 1: that they were running out of daylight and out of fuel. 128 00:08:59,125 --> 00:09:01,605 Speaker 1: The pilot later said that he did not have enough 129 00:09:01,605 --> 00:09:04,125 Speaker 1: fuel to fly to the Lost Hill station, pick up 130 00:09:04,165 --> 00:09:06,925 Speaker 1: the coroner's team, drop them off to view the remains, 131 00:09:07,325 --> 00:09:15,245 Speaker 1: and then get everyone safely back out. Exactly what happened 132 00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:18,645 Speaker 1: next is in dispute, and a lot of it sums 133 00:09:18,725 --> 00:09:21,165 Speaker 1: up what was going on with the investigation in general. 134 00:09:23,005 --> 00:09:26,005 Speaker 1: Perhaps The most important was the series of cell phone 135 00:09:26,045 --> 00:09:29,285 Speaker 1: calls that took place between the homicide detectives who were 136 00:09:29,285 --> 00:09:33,165 Speaker 1: in Dark Canyon, their lieutenant, and the Coroner's office personnel 137 00:09:33,285 --> 00:09:36,845 Speaker 1: back at the command post. Then, as it is now, 138 00:09:37,325 --> 00:09:40,285 Speaker 1: it was hard to get reception, so police said that 139 00:09:40,365 --> 00:09:44,605 Speaker 1: a lot of the calls were dropped. While this was 140 00:09:44,645 --> 00:09:48,365 Speaker 1: going on, the marijuana reconnaissance team made the call they 141 00:09:48,405 --> 00:09:52,765 Speaker 1: were getting out, so they hiked out at around six pm. 142 00:09:53,565 --> 00:09:57,165 Speaker 1: This left the search and rescue personnel and the homicide detectives. 143 00:09:58,045 --> 00:10:01,925 Speaker 1: At around eight pm, the LAPD homicide detectives made a 144 00:10:01,925 --> 00:10:05,205 Speaker 1: critical decision that would change the direction of the case forever, 145 00:10:06,365 --> 00:10:11,005 Speaker 1: because that's when detectives Macklderry and Acebado decided they were 146 00:10:11,045 --> 00:10:15,765 Speaker 1: taking the remains out. Law enforcement teams have been known 147 00:10:15,845 --> 00:10:20,805 Speaker 1: to stay overnight with remains, why not this time. According 148 00:10:20,845 --> 00:10:24,605 Speaker 1: to the report, the homicide detective said he thought about 149 00:10:24,685 --> 00:10:28,485 Speaker 1: leaving the remains overnight, but said that quote he did 150 00:10:28,525 --> 00:10:31,525 Speaker 1: not know whether someone had noticed the activity and could 151 00:10:31,605 --> 00:10:34,445 Speaker 1: possibly come into the canyon overnight and disturb the scene. 152 00:10:35,245 --> 00:10:37,405 Speaker 1: The detective was also aware that there were teeth in 153 00:10:37,405 --> 00:10:40,965 Speaker 1: the upper jaw of the skull, making identification possible, and 154 00:10:41,125 --> 00:10:46,085 Speaker 1: was concerned about losing critical evidence end quote. He later 155 00:10:46,165 --> 00:10:48,845 Speaker 1: said that he believed that people being in the area 156 00:10:49,165 --> 00:10:53,005 Speaker 1: could attract wildlife overnight, which could damage the crime scene. 157 00:10:53,685 --> 00:10:57,165 Speaker 1: The homicide detective said he believed he had permission to 158 00:10:57,205 --> 00:11:04,965 Speaker 1: move the remains, but the coroner's office disagreed. According to 159 00:11:05,005 --> 00:11:08,645 Speaker 1: the Office of Independent Review report, the coroner captain said 160 00:11:08,645 --> 00:11:11,085 Speaker 1: that the detective told him that it was getting dark 161 00:11:11,565 --> 00:11:15,125 Speaker 1: end quote. He wanted permission to move the bones or 162 00:11:15,165 --> 00:11:18,285 Speaker 1: remove them without us actually going in and being able 163 00:11:18,365 --> 00:11:20,485 Speaker 1: to help them with it or conduct any kind of 164 00:11:20,525 --> 00:11:24,645 Speaker 1: scene investigation. End quote. The captain also said that the 165 00:11:24,685 --> 00:11:27,845 Speaker 1: detective had told him quote he told me that he 166 00:11:27,925 --> 00:11:31,565 Speaker 1: saw only a skull and pelvit bone and legbone. He 167 00:11:31,605 --> 00:11:34,365 Speaker 1: believed that the rest of the remains had been washed 168 00:11:34,405 --> 00:11:37,565 Speaker 1: down into that location and the animals had scattered the 169 00:11:37,605 --> 00:11:39,965 Speaker 1: rest of the remains, and that we would probably not 170 00:11:40,125 --> 00:11:42,765 Speaker 1: be successful in any subsequent search of the area to 171 00:11:42,805 --> 00:11:47,125 Speaker 1: find anything additional end quote. This is an extremely bizarre 172 00:11:47,165 --> 00:11:50,085 Speaker 1: statement for a homicide detective to make. He has just 173 00:11:50,245 --> 00:11:53,285 Speaker 1: arrived on the scene, and before any forensic testing has 174 00:11:53,325 --> 00:11:56,685 Speaker 1: been done, he decides that they won't find anything else. 175 00:11:58,765 --> 00:12:01,125 Speaker 1: But when they lifted the pelvit bone out of the debris, 176 00:12:01,685 --> 00:12:05,165 Speaker 1: they saw something else, a large portion of the skeleton 177 00:12:05,605 --> 00:12:09,965 Speaker 1: still intact that had not been previously visible. So at 178 00:12:09,965 --> 00:12:13,685 Speaker 1: that point the homicide detectives knew, despite what they had 179 00:12:13,725 --> 00:12:16,565 Speaker 1: just told the coroner's team, that they had much more 180 00:12:16,765 --> 00:12:20,925 Speaker 1: than just three bones at that site. Still, the homicide 181 00:12:20,925 --> 00:12:23,845 Speaker 1: detectives doubled down on their decision to move the remains. 182 00:12:24,725 --> 00:12:27,205 Speaker 1: A Malibu Search and Rescue team member picked up the 183 00:12:27,245 --> 00:12:30,325 Speaker 1: skull and placed it on a plastic sheet, which was 184 00:12:30,365 --> 00:12:34,165 Speaker 1: laid out in a body bag. The recovery personnel gathered 185 00:12:34,205 --> 00:12:36,925 Speaker 1: all the small bones they could see and placed them 186 00:12:36,925 --> 00:12:40,565 Speaker 1: with the rest of the remains before they left the scene. 187 00:12:40,925 --> 00:12:43,965 Speaker 1: The team at the remain site laid out a silver 188 00:12:44,045 --> 00:12:47,925 Speaker 1: rescue blanket and taped off the area with orange tape 189 00:12:48,125 --> 00:12:51,725 Speaker 1: to mark the location so that when they returned, investigators 190 00:12:51,765 --> 00:12:54,885 Speaker 1: could find the site. The remains were then loaded into 191 00:12:54,925 --> 00:13:02,725 Speaker 1: a body bag and airlifted out by the helicopter. Finally, 192 00:13:03,045 --> 00:13:06,485 Speaker 1: the next morning, the coroner's team was taken to the 193 00:13:06,525 --> 00:13:10,125 Speaker 1: site where the remains had been found, but they received 194 00:13:10,125 --> 00:13:14,045 Speaker 1: conflicting GPS coordinates and were unable to reach the location. 195 00:13:15,165 --> 00:13:18,365 Speaker 1: It would be another two full weeks before the coroner's 196 00:13:18,445 --> 00:13:22,005 Speaker 1: team was able to find the remains. When the team 197 00:13:22,165 --> 00:13:24,805 Speaker 1: was finally able to hike into the area on August 198 00:13:24,845 --> 00:13:28,925 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, they found a lot more bones, and they 199 00:13:29,285 --> 00:13:32,885 Speaker 1: and the public began to wonder what else had the 200 00:13:32,925 --> 00:13:39,725 Speaker 1: homicide detectives missed. Anne Sobil wrote an article about what 201 00:13:39,845 --> 00:13:42,365 Speaker 1: went down that day for the Malibu Surf Side News. 202 00:13:42,965 --> 00:13:46,005 Speaker 1: She spoke to ed Winter, he was the assistant coroner 203 00:13:46,005 --> 00:13:48,885 Speaker 1: at the time. She wrote that he told her quote, 204 00:13:49,285 --> 00:13:53,205 Speaker 1: since coroner's personnel did not witness this procedure, they cannot 205 00:13:53,245 --> 00:13:55,765 Speaker 1: attest to the care with which the remains were handled. 206 00:13:56,165 --> 00:13:59,965 Speaker 1: End quote. Winter told Soble that the Coroner's office has 207 00:14:00,005 --> 00:14:03,565 Speaker 1: a skeletal recovery team with specialized skills for handling this 208 00:14:03,685 --> 00:14:08,765 Speaker 1: exact situation. If the Coroner's office representatives were not able 209 00:14:08,805 --> 00:14:12,485 Speaker 1: to get to the scene, documenting the crime scene becomes critical. 210 00:14:13,485 --> 00:14:17,845 Speaker 1: Remember those photos that were taken by detectives. At some point, 211 00:14:18,245 --> 00:14:20,445 Speaker 1: ed Winter said that if he couldn't get to the site, 212 00:14:20,965 --> 00:14:23,765 Speaker 1: he would need to see those photographs to determine if 213 00:14:23,765 --> 00:14:27,605 Speaker 1: the remains could be moved. But the photographs apparently never 214 00:14:27,645 --> 00:14:31,925 Speaker 1: made it across his desk. The Office of Independent Review 215 00:14:31,965 --> 00:14:35,245 Speaker 1: report states that at least one detective took photos of 216 00:14:35,285 --> 00:14:37,925 Speaker 1: the body on a cell phone but was not able 217 00:14:37,925 --> 00:14:41,325 Speaker 1: to email those photos, and that some of the rangers 218 00:14:41,365 --> 00:14:43,565 Speaker 1: hiked out of the cannon with a flash drive containing 219 00:14:43,605 --> 00:14:47,525 Speaker 1: some photos, but the images that were on the flash 220 00:14:47,645 --> 00:14:50,765 Speaker 1: drive apparently could not be downloaded back at the secondary 221 00:14:50,765 --> 00:14:55,165 Speaker 1: command post at Lost Hill Station. The photos that were 222 00:14:55,165 --> 00:15:00,525 Speaker 1: taken of the crime scene are reportedly not of usable quality. 223 00:15:01,245 --> 00:15:05,285 Speaker 1: According to Mike Kessler's article in Los Angeles Magazine, of 224 00:15:05,325 --> 00:15:08,165 Speaker 1: the the pictures that were taken by the rangers were 225 00:15:08,285 --> 00:15:12,525 Speaker 1: given to the coroner. He writes, quote, those images have 226 00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:16,325 Speaker 1: not been disclosed or publicly discussed, but a well placed 227 00:15:16,325 --> 00:15:19,565 Speaker 1: source says that like so many facets of my Teresa's case, 228 00:15:20,245 --> 00:15:23,645 Speaker 1: her remains have generated more questions than they've answered. Her 229 00:15:23,725 --> 00:15:27,245 Speaker 1: right leg, caked in soil and sprouting weeds, sat about 230 00:15:27,245 --> 00:15:29,965 Speaker 1: two yards upslote from the body a top amount of 231 00:15:30,045 --> 00:15:33,045 Speaker 1: dry mines. The femur of the leg had been removed 232 00:15:33,045 --> 00:15:35,685 Speaker 1: from the soft tissue, as if it had been pulled 233 00:15:35,685 --> 00:15:38,045 Speaker 1: from the top of the thigh. There was nothing but 234 00:15:38,085 --> 00:15:40,885 Speaker 1: a narrow duct where the bone should have been end 235 00:15:40,965 --> 00:15:47,725 Speaker 1: quote to the chagrin of not only the Ela County 236 00:15:47,725 --> 00:15:50,125 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department, but to all those that know my trees, 237 00:15:50,685 --> 00:15:53,765 Speaker 1: particularly your mother and father, that this became an extraordinarily 238 00:15:53,805 --> 00:15:58,645 Speaker 1: emotional and charged investigation. On August twelfth, at nine thirty am, 239 00:15:59,525 --> 00:16:03,885 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department held a press conference. Immediately, 240 00:16:04,085 --> 00:16:10,085 Speaker 1: we went into that area, retrieved those remains with the 241 00:16:10,165 --> 00:16:13,925 Speaker 1: Corner's office, turn the remains over to the corner's office. 242 00:16:14,365 --> 00:16:18,525 Speaker 1: The Corner's office has done an extensive amount of forensic 243 00:16:18,805 --> 00:16:23,045 Speaker 1: in the last several days, and it's to my sadness 244 00:16:23,045 --> 00:16:26,485 Speaker 1: and disappointment that I'm reporting to you that it is 245 00:16:26,525 --> 00:16:31,885 Speaker 1: the confirmed remains of my Terrace Richardson. They confirmed that 246 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:35,885 Speaker 1: the remains were my traces. Sheriff Lee Baca called the 247 00:16:35,925 --> 00:16:41,645 Speaker 1: discovery tragic. Life is fragile. Let's let the family have 248 00:16:41,805 --> 00:16:45,405 Speaker 1: their time of greeting, Let's let this lady be buried 249 00:16:45,405 --> 00:16:49,605 Speaker 1: in dignity, and then let's go forward with the investigation 250 00:16:49,685 --> 00:16:53,725 Speaker 1: of the office innefen review. We have nothing to hide 251 00:16:53,805 --> 00:16:56,725 Speaker 1: in this case. The point is there's a lot of 252 00:16:56,725 --> 00:17:00,205 Speaker 1: factors beyond just the Sheriff's Department that need to be explained. 253 00:17:02,485 --> 00:17:05,845 Speaker 1: At the end of Bacca's statement, journalists started yelling out 254 00:17:05,925 --> 00:17:10,325 Speaker 1: about Michael Richardson. Michael is Mates's father, and he had 255 00:17:10,325 --> 00:17:13,085 Speaker 1: told journalists that he hadn't been informed that the remains 256 00:17:13,085 --> 00:17:17,165 Speaker 1: were my terces until minutes before the press conference. Baka 257 00:17:17,285 --> 00:17:20,765 Speaker 1: responded that the coroner had given him a call, but 258 00:17:20,805 --> 00:17:24,405 Speaker 1: when they brought it up again, things got cheated. Am 259 00:17:24,405 --> 00:17:27,005 Speaker 1: I missing a point here with you? Yeah? I just 260 00:17:27,085 --> 00:17:30,125 Speaker 1: get informed a half an hour ago. You expect me 261 00:17:30,245 --> 00:17:34,805 Speaker 1: to tell the father? Imia, we just did. We just 262 00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:37,845 Speaker 1: did at a news conference. Is a property to notify someone? 263 00:17:37,885 --> 00:17:43,525 Speaker 1: I just funked him. He was contacted by me right now. Now. 264 00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:46,125 Speaker 1: If you object to that, that's you're just asking you? 265 00:17:46,325 --> 00:17:49,525 Speaker 1: Is that proper? What do you think it might be different? 266 00:17:49,685 --> 00:17:53,165 Speaker 1: Is this circumstance? Maybe call him first, notify him first. 267 00:17:53,285 --> 00:17:56,685 Speaker 1: If you don't know until ten minutes ago, who are 268 00:17:56,725 --> 00:17:59,405 Speaker 1: you going to call? If he's here? I was told 269 00:17:59,405 --> 00:18:02,525 Speaker 1: you was here when I arrived. I paid my respects 270 00:18:02,565 --> 00:18:05,245 Speaker 1: to him and will continue to do so. I don't 271 00:18:05,605 --> 00:18:08,325 Speaker 1: stand the purpose of your question. Usually they notify family 272 00:18:08,365 --> 00:18:10,605 Speaker 1: members before they were new. Ed Winter of the Los 273 00:18:10,645 --> 00:18:15,325 Speaker 1: Angeles County Corners Office estimated that my Trees's remains had 274 00:18:15,325 --> 00:18:17,885 Speaker 1: been at that site for six months two years. We 275 00:18:17,965 --> 00:18:26,845 Speaker 1: conducted the pathological exam preliminary also with an anthropologist yesterday 276 00:18:27,645 --> 00:18:33,165 Speaker 1: and the odentologist yesterday evening. The cause of death is 277 00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:37,325 Speaker 1: deferred at this time. It is an ongoing investigation and 278 00:18:37,525 --> 00:18:41,045 Speaker 1: is soon. If we can get causes with mode manner 279 00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:43,085 Speaker 1: cause of death, we will do. I like Liza, you'll 280 00:18:43,085 --> 00:18:46,565 Speaker 1: be able to put one cause of death. Don't know 281 00:18:46,605 --> 00:18:49,725 Speaker 1: at this time. That is in the hands of the 282 00:18:49,725 --> 00:18:56,765 Speaker 1: pathologist and the anthropologist. We did not find anything obvious 283 00:18:56,845 --> 00:18:59,605 Speaker 1: at this time, but it's a long process. Was other 284 00:18:59,645 --> 00:19:03,285 Speaker 1: residents founded the scene, which was Steve Whitmore, the Community 285 00:19:03,285 --> 00:19:07,005 Speaker 1: Information officer for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. Took 286 00:19:07,045 --> 00:19:09,005 Speaker 1: a few questions near the end of the press conference. 287 00:19:09,605 --> 00:19:11,485 Speaker 1: That's not an area you can walk to, is it? 288 00:19:12,685 --> 00:19:15,485 Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Where? What area? The area where the remains 289 00:19:15,485 --> 00:19:17,845 Speaker 1: were from? No, no, we even walk to it. They'll 290 00:19:17,885 --> 00:19:18,925 Speaker 1: tell you the way you can get to it or 291 00:19:18,965 --> 00:19:21,285 Speaker 1: helicopter in. But I mean, can you get there on foot? 292 00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:22,965 Speaker 1: Is what I'm saying. Yes you can, but there's no 293 00:19:23,325 --> 00:19:26,805 Speaker 1: as far as I know, there's no identifiable trails you 294 00:19:26,885 --> 00:19:29,885 Speaker 1: have to hack your way through, so it's unlikely she 295 00:19:29,925 --> 00:19:32,045 Speaker 1: got there on her own. Once again, we don't want 296 00:19:32,085 --> 00:19:33,965 Speaker 1: to speculate on that, but I will tell you this 297 00:19:34,045 --> 00:19:37,085 Speaker 1: homicide is going to continue. The investigation. They're going to 298 00:19:37,085 --> 00:19:39,525 Speaker 1: try to figure out if they can, which we probably 299 00:19:39,805 --> 00:19:42,605 Speaker 1: it's likely can never do. But they're going to try 300 00:19:42,645 --> 00:19:46,245 Speaker 1: to figure out how she in fact got there. So 301 00:19:46,365 --> 00:19:49,445 Speaker 1: that is something. This is not closed. This is still open, 302 00:19:49,725 --> 00:19:51,725 Speaker 1: and that's what they're going to do. Right. We do 303 00:19:51,805 --> 00:19:54,525 Speaker 1: not know. It's likely that we can never find out 304 00:19:54,565 --> 00:19:57,045 Speaker 1: exactly how she got there, but they're going to do 305 00:19:57,085 --> 00:19:59,845 Speaker 1: their very best to figure that out. So that is 306 00:19:59,885 --> 00:20:03,125 Speaker 1: still under investigation and it's still going to be looked at. 307 00:20:03,605 --> 00:20:07,925 Speaker 1: Thank you. Sheriff's officials were quick to say that they 308 00:20:07,965 --> 00:20:11,525 Speaker 1: saw no signs of foul play, but according to the 309 00:20:11,645 --> 00:20:14,925 Speaker 1: La Times, they also said that they did not believe 310 00:20:15,125 --> 00:20:18,605 Speaker 1: that my Trees fell to her death. This doesn't make 311 00:20:18,645 --> 00:20:23,005 Speaker 1: sense in these strange set of circumstances, how could they 312 00:20:23,085 --> 00:20:26,565 Speaker 1: immediately conclude that there was no sign of foul play. 313 00:20:36,165 --> 00:20:40,325 Speaker 1: After many grueling months of searching and wondering, my Teres's 314 00:20:40,325 --> 00:20:45,685 Speaker 1: family and friends finally got an answer. However, it was 315 00:20:45,765 --> 00:20:48,125 Speaker 1: not the sigh of relief they were all hoping for. 316 00:20:48,925 --> 00:20:52,045 Speaker 1: Ronda says that they had to demand that police take 317 00:20:52,085 --> 00:20:56,085 Speaker 1: them to the site where my trees was found. They 318 00:20:56,125 --> 00:20:59,165 Speaker 1: eventually agreed, so they went down to the site with 319 00:20:59,285 --> 00:21:03,125 Speaker 1: Malibu's Search and Rescue and sergeant to We write, so 320 00:21:03,205 --> 00:21:06,485 Speaker 1: when we go down to the creetebeth, Oh, to the left, 321 00:21:06,525 --> 00:21:10,445 Speaker 1: there's this little mound that her thighbone actually was found 322 00:21:10,485 --> 00:21:13,205 Speaker 1: on that little mound. So there's a little mound there 323 00:21:13,205 --> 00:21:16,605 Speaker 1: and taped off with a yellow tape. Right, No, it 324 00:21:16,605 --> 00:21:20,085 Speaker 1: was the orange tape. Sorry, and so but then on 325 00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:24,805 Speaker 1: to the left there's this little gully right and so, well, 326 00:21:24,925 --> 00:21:26,605 Speaker 1: all the other feature and rescue people went to what 327 00:21:26,725 --> 00:21:29,405 Speaker 1: the orange tape was. Tooey went to the gully. But 328 00:21:29,485 --> 00:21:31,165 Speaker 1: I'll follow him because I don't try to do that. 329 00:21:31,605 --> 00:21:33,165 Speaker 1: So I follow him, so he said. Me and him 330 00:21:33,165 --> 00:21:36,285 Speaker 1: standing around, I said, Towey, how from we're we're we're 331 00:21:36,405 --> 00:21:39,045 Speaker 1: right here and everybody else is over there. And he goes, 332 00:21:39,125 --> 00:21:41,205 Speaker 1: I don't know, and I was like, well, what's going on? 333 00:21:41,285 --> 00:21:43,085 Speaker 1: He goes, well, this is where her body was found. 334 00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:44,685 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, why are they over there? 335 00:21:45,365 --> 00:21:47,685 Speaker 1: And he said, I don't know again, and then I said, well, well, 336 00:21:47,685 --> 00:21:49,645 Speaker 1: why are you here, and he goes, well, this is 337 00:21:49,685 --> 00:21:51,085 Speaker 1: where she was. And I said how do you know, 338 00:21:51,125 --> 00:21:55,485 Speaker 1: and he said, because I found her body. And I 339 00:21:55,565 --> 00:21:58,725 Speaker 1: was like two, I thought the I thought the rangers 340 00:21:58,765 --> 00:22:01,125 Speaker 1: found her body. And then he just gave me this 341 00:22:01,205 --> 00:22:04,045 Speaker 1: look and then we kind of had this moment of 342 00:22:04,605 --> 00:22:07,525 Speaker 1: staring and then he called everybody, Okay, guys, come over here, 343 00:22:07,565 --> 00:22:14,285 Speaker 1: this is where her body went. Extracting my Terrece's remains 344 00:22:14,645 --> 00:22:19,565 Speaker 1: was a coordinated effort among LAPD coroners, medical examiners, and 345 00:22:19,645 --> 00:22:24,725 Speaker 1: police with the LASD and LAPD, and depending on jurisdictions, 346 00:22:25,205 --> 00:22:30,565 Speaker 1: there are different processes for extraction. The LAPD Coroner's office 347 00:22:30,925 --> 00:22:34,925 Speaker 1: is the biggest coroner's office in the country. Until recently, 348 00:22:35,485 --> 00:22:38,045 Speaker 1: it even had a gift shop. So a lot of 349 00:22:38,085 --> 00:22:41,485 Speaker 1: reporters shared my surprise that the coordinated extraction of my 350 00:22:41,565 --> 00:22:48,085 Speaker 1: Terce's remains ended up this disorganized. My name is Sally Aikin, 351 00:22:49,285 --> 00:22:52,805 Speaker 1: doctor Sally Aichen, and I am a medical examiner and 352 00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:57,125 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist. We talked with Sally Aichen, the president of 353 00:22:57,165 --> 00:23:01,605 Speaker 1: the National Association of Medical Examiners, about process and procedure 354 00:23:01,685 --> 00:23:05,125 Speaker 1: for extraction. When you're distratched to the scene and there 355 00:23:05,125 --> 00:23:09,165 Speaker 1: remains there huge decides when there remains to be moved. 356 00:23:10,525 --> 00:23:16,045 Speaker 1: So it depends on the jurisdiction. So every every death 357 00:23:16,085 --> 00:23:19,405 Speaker 1: investigation system in the United States has laws that they're 358 00:23:19,445 --> 00:23:25,205 Speaker 1: subject to, so it really depends on how that law 359 00:23:25,925 --> 00:23:29,845 Speaker 1: those laws impact the office. But in my state, the 360 00:23:30,565 --> 00:23:34,045 Speaker 1: body more or less belongs to the medical examiner or 361 00:23:34,165 --> 00:23:41,045 Speaker 1: corner so we that's considered our jurisdiction. So some of 362 00:23:41,085 --> 00:23:43,845 Speaker 1: the things around the body at the scene, like things 363 00:23:43,925 --> 00:23:46,685 Speaker 1: in the hall or things out doors, are part of 364 00:23:46,725 --> 00:23:51,605 Speaker 1: the death scene investigation performed ordinarily by law enforcement. But 365 00:23:51,685 --> 00:23:56,605 Speaker 1: the body is is ore is under our jurisdiction. So 366 00:23:56,645 --> 00:24:01,085 Speaker 1: in my office we determine when all bodies moved and 367 00:24:01,365 --> 00:24:05,245 Speaker 1: arranged for it to be moved and passed it appropriately. 368 00:24:06,245 --> 00:24:10,005 Speaker 1: And is that something you would tell the police. So 369 00:24:10,565 --> 00:24:15,445 Speaker 1: if we're talking about a homicide, the police would inform 370 00:24:15,525 --> 00:24:18,325 Speaker 1: us that they have a potential homicide victim at a 371 00:24:18,405 --> 00:24:22,405 Speaker 1: location and they may process parts of the scene around 372 00:24:22,445 --> 00:24:24,485 Speaker 1: the body that they leave the body to us. So 373 00:24:24,645 --> 00:24:29,525 Speaker 1: we get contacted, come to the scene, we package the 374 00:24:29,565 --> 00:24:33,285 Speaker 1: body and label it appropriately and have a transport team 375 00:24:33,485 --> 00:24:36,165 Speaker 1: that moves the body to our facility. So in the 376 00:24:36,205 --> 00:24:42,125 Speaker 1: case of the homicide, I'm there labeling the body, making 377 00:24:42,405 --> 00:24:47,525 Speaker 1: sure we've collected trace evidence appropriately at the scene, which 378 00:24:47,605 --> 00:24:49,925 Speaker 1: might be things like touch DNA that you might do 379 00:24:50,005 --> 00:24:53,005 Speaker 1: at the scene instead of during the autopsy, and then 380 00:24:53,085 --> 00:24:57,365 Speaker 1: package the body in our transport moves it. It's packaged 381 00:24:57,365 --> 00:25:01,725 Speaker 1: in a body pouch with an evidence take and that 382 00:25:01,765 --> 00:25:05,965 Speaker 1: comes to our facility which is secure obviously, and then 383 00:25:06,005 --> 00:25:11,205 Speaker 1: the evidence tag is not broken till autopsy. So there's 384 00:25:11,205 --> 00:25:13,845 Speaker 1: a really specific protocol for how it needs. Everything needs 385 00:25:13,885 --> 00:25:18,125 Speaker 1: to be moved and tagged. Yes, yes, just to make oh, 386 00:25:18,205 --> 00:25:20,805 Speaker 1: that it's done appropriately so that we can durify that's 387 00:25:20,885 --> 00:25:26,965 Speaker 1: done correctly. The day after my Teresa's remains were found 388 00:25:27,365 --> 00:25:31,565 Speaker 1: on August eleventh, twenty ten, a forensic pathologist from the 389 00:25:31,565 --> 00:25:37,925 Speaker 1: Coroner's office conducted an autopsy. Here's what they found. In 390 00:25:37,965 --> 00:25:42,605 Speaker 1: the autopsy report, the pathologists noted the remains were a 391 00:25:42,685 --> 00:25:47,845 Speaker 1: nearly complete human skeletal remains with no evidence of anti 392 00:25:47,925 --> 00:25:51,685 Speaker 1: mortem trauma, so there were no broken bones that would 393 00:25:51,685 --> 00:25:55,645 Speaker 1: have suggested trauma before my Teres's death. A fall, for example, 394 00:25:55,925 --> 00:25:58,405 Speaker 1: that could have potentially contributed to a cause of death 395 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:02,045 Speaker 1: and no trauma to the fingers or toes, except for 396 00:26:02,085 --> 00:26:05,485 Speaker 1: a small amount of post mortem activity that investigators suspected 397 00:26:05,845 --> 00:26:10,045 Speaker 1: had been caused by animals. The pathologists consulted with a 398 00:26:10,085 --> 00:26:13,965 Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist from the coroner's office, and they determined that 399 00:26:14,005 --> 00:26:17,565 Speaker 1: a small number of bones were still missing. These included 400 00:26:17,605 --> 00:26:20,925 Speaker 1: the hyoid bone and other neck bones, the cossacks, and 401 00:26:21,005 --> 00:26:24,885 Speaker 1: several vertebra, five bones on the right hand, and multiple 402 00:26:24,925 --> 00:26:29,045 Speaker 1: bones from her right and left feet. An examination of 403 00:26:29,125 --> 00:26:33,285 Speaker 1: dental records and DNA testing showed that the remains were 404 00:26:33,405 --> 00:26:38,125 Speaker 1: by Teres Richardson. The cause of death was listed as undetermined. 405 00:26:40,365 --> 00:26:44,885 Speaker 1: Investigators later interviewed the forensic pathologists from the coroner's office. 406 00:26:45,005 --> 00:26:47,605 Speaker 1: They asked if the very crude recovery method could have 407 00:26:47,685 --> 00:26:51,485 Speaker 1: damaged the bones. The pathologists said that they found no 408 00:26:51,565 --> 00:26:55,525 Speaker 1: evidence of artificial trauma, which would be cause, for example, 409 00:26:55,565 --> 00:26:58,165 Speaker 1: if someone had dropped a bone on a rock causing 410 00:26:58,165 --> 00:27:07,005 Speaker 1: an obvious fracture. On August time, twenty fifth, twenty ten, 411 00:27:07,525 --> 00:27:11,525 Speaker 1: sixteen days after the discovery of the remains, the coroner's team, 412 00:27:11,725 --> 00:27:15,205 Speaker 1: a coroner canine unit, Malibu Search and Rescue, and the 413 00:27:15,245 --> 00:27:19,885 Speaker 1: homicide detectives hiked again into Dark Canyon to conduct another 414 00:27:19,925 --> 00:27:25,245 Speaker 1: search for remains. This time they located the site. They 415 00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:30,765 Speaker 1: found five additional vertebra, one carpal bone, and three falangeal bones. 416 00:27:36,125 --> 00:27:39,165 Speaker 1: My Teresa's family was growing increasingly frustrated at what they 417 00:27:39,245 --> 00:27:43,485 Speaker 1: viewed as the sheriff's apartment's stonewalling. They asked for help 418 00:27:43,525 --> 00:27:47,685 Speaker 1: from Cleia cough. Clea is a forensic anthropologist who has 419 00:27:47,765 --> 00:27:52,685 Speaker 1: extensive experience investigating forensic evidence of war crimes and genocide. 420 00:27:52,765 --> 00:27:57,685 Speaker 1: She agreed to help my Teresa's family. On Saturday, August 421 00:27:57,725 --> 00:28:03,045 Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty ten, my Teres was buried in Inglewood Cemetery. 422 00:28:03,085 --> 00:28:04,885 Speaker 1: This is the day that we heard about at the 423 00:28:04,925 --> 00:28:09,365 Speaker 1: cemetery from doctor Ronda. Before my Terse was laid to rest, 424 00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:15,005 Speaker 1: Clia observed what she believed to be some irregularities. She 425 00:28:15,125 --> 00:28:19,285 Speaker 1: was shocked to discover that my Terse's clothes were inside 426 00:28:19,285 --> 00:28:21,805 Speaker 1: the body bag and none of them appeared to have 427 00:28:21,885 --> 00:28:26,485 Speaker 1: been tested. Here's Ronda again explaining what it was like, 428 00:28:27,885 --> 00:28:29,925 Speaker 1: right when the service was going to start, Right when 429 00:28:29,925 --> 00:28:34,925 Speaker 1: then that's when I get the phone call. Right, her 430 00:28:35,045 --> 00:28:38,845 Speaker 1: body had not been analyzed, Her clothing were in the 431 00:28:38,885 --> 00:28:42,285 Speaker 1: body bag, clothing in the body bag. Her body had 432 00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:45,525 Speaker 1: not been analyzed, and apologist is like, we got to 433 00:28:45,565 --> 00:28:47,165 Speaker 1: figure out what to do, and then we knew she 434 00:28:47,205 --> 00:28:49,245 Speaker 1: was going to be buried. So we're already knowing this 435 00:28:49,325 --> 00:28:51,925 Speaker 1: is what Anthon prologist. Wouldn't we bury her, We're going 436 00:28:51,965 --> 00:28:54,965 Speaker 1: to have to fight for exhumation. But what she did 437 00:28:55,125 --> 00:28:58,525 Speaker 1: was she took because she had worked forensically, she knew 438 00:28:58,565 --> 00:29:01,685 Speaker 1: how to secure the clothing, so she secured them, you know, 439 00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:04,125 Speaker 1: per chain of custody issues, so she was able to 440 00:29:04,165 --> 00:29:06,845 Speaker 1: do that. So her body was not buried with the clothing. 441 00:29:06,885 --> 00:29:11,485 Speaker 1: The clothing was kept here. So then we didn't tell 442 00:29:11,525 --> 00:29:14,085 Speaker 1: them about the clothing until we met with the corners 443 00:29:14,085 --> 00:29:15,885 Speaker 1: and we start going through the reasons why they needed 444 00:29:15,925 --> 00:29:19,005 Speaker 1: to be an exclamation because our body wasn't evaluated because 445 00:29:19,325 --> 00:29:25,285 Speaker 1: she was not there was just no evaluation. Ronda drafted 446 00:29:25,285 --> 00:29:28,285 Speaker 1: a five page document that she sent to the LAPD 447 00:29:28,965 --> 00:29:31,405 Speaker 1: with a long list of questions for the corner and 448 00:29:31,485 --> 00:29:36,965 Speaker 1: medical examiner. She and my Teresa's family were not convinced 449 00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:40,765 Speaker 1: that the police had found everything. Two months after the service, 450 00:29:41,045 --> 00:29:45,925 Speaker 1: on November sixth, twenty ten, my Teresa's mom Latis, her 451 00:29:45,965 --> 00:29:50,285 Speaker 1: aunt Lauren. Ronda, and Cliakoff returned to the site with 452 00:29:50,445 --> 00:29:54,085 Speaker 1: the sheriff and other department members. After a hard hike, 453 00:29:54,645 --> 00:29:56,765 Speaker 1: they managed to get to the site where my Teresa's 454 00:29:56,805 --> 00:30:00,245 Speaker 1: remains were found. They put up a memorial to my trees, 455 00:30:00,645 --> 00:30:04,445 Speaker 1: laid flowers down, and started sifting through leaves with equipment 456 00:30:04,485 --> 00:30:07,245 Speaker 1: provided by Cleoca. What happened is I was with that 457 00:30:07,405 --> 00:30:10,005 Speaker 1: for ends of anthropologist. Her name was Cleo Coop, and 458 00:30:10,045 --> 00:30:12,045 Speaker 1: I told her, listen, you know what, I don't care 459 00:30:12,085 --> 00:30:14,045 Speaker 1: about a freaking memorial. I want to go up there 460 00:30:14,085 --> 00:30:16,645 Speaker 1: and I want all of her bones out there. When 461 00:30:16,685 --> 00:30:18,405 Speaker 1: we hike up to that site, y'all can put up 462 00:30:18,405 --> 00:30:20,645 Speaker 1: a memorial all you want to, but you need to 463 00:30:20,685 --> 00:30:22,845 Speaker 1: show me how to search for bones, because I want 464 00:30:22,845 --> 00:30:27,005 Speaker 1: her to hell out of here. So we hiked up 465 00:30:27,045 --> 00:30:30,565 Speaker 1: there and so then the friendsic anthropologies. She said, okay, 466 00:30:30,605 --> 00:30:33,125 Speaker 1: this is how you do it. Ronda took matters into 467 00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:36,525 Speaker 1: her own hands. That's when she brushed some leaves aside 468 00:30:37,005 --> 00:30:41,965 Speaker 1: and saw something small and solid. To their horror, the 469 00:30:42,045 --> 00:30:45,685 Speaker 1: group realized that they had found a human fingerbone. So 470 00:30:45,805 --> 00:30:47,445 Speaker 1: she was showing me how they do it, and as 471 00:30:47,485 --> 00:30:49,405 Speaker 1: soon as we did that, a finger bone popped up 472 00:30:49,925 --> 00:30:51,605 Speaker 1: and then she was like, shit, we got to get 473 00:30:51,605 --> 00:30:53,165 Speaker 1: out of here. So then we had to call the 474 00:30:53,165 --> 00:30:55,365 Speaker 1: switcher rescue. He's on the bone, and that's when the 475 00:30:55,445 --> 00:30:58,765 Speaker 1: airlifted out of their They immediately turned the bone over 476 00:30:58,805 --> 00:31:02,165 Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's Department personnel, who delivered it to the corner. 477 00:31:03,245 --> 00:31:06,525 Speaker 1: Later testing would confirm that the bone was a match 478 00:31:06,685 --> 00:31:09,005 Speaker 1: to my trees. And then they came back and they 479 00:31:09,045 --> 00:31:11,365 Speaker 1: retreat bone, and I think they had to come another time. 480 00:31:11,405 --> 00:31:14,525 Speaker 1: I think they were out there three times the first 481 00:31:14,565 --> 00:31:16,205 Speaker 1: time and two other times that it took them through 482 00:31:16,245 --> 00:31:19,125 Speaker 1: retreat all of them. So actually, if you guys hadn't 483 00:31:19,165 --> 00:31:21,085 Speaker 1: done that, who knows if they would have found the 484 00:31:21,085 --> 00:31:23,365 Speaker 1: other bones at all. And no, they wouldn't have went 485 00:31:23,405 --> 00:31:27,605 Speaker 1: up there again. I mean, that's unbelievable in itself. They 486 00:31:27,605 --> 00:31:29,845 Speaker 1: would have just said that the animals got her or 487 00:31:29,845 --> 00:31:34,365 Speaker 1: something like that. On February thirteenth, twenty eleven, a team 488 00:31:34,405 --> 00:31:37,805 Speaker 1: from the Corner and personnel from the LASD returned to 489 00:31:37,845 --> 00:31:42,645 Speaker 1: the site and conducted another extensive search. Eight additional bone 490 00:31:42,685 --> 00:31:49,045 Speaker 1: fragments were found and recovered. Latis filed a request to 491 00:31:49,085 --> 00:31:53,365 Speaker 1: have her daughter's remains exhumed and it was granted. In 492 00:31:53,445 --> 00:31:57,605 Speaker 1: July twenty eleven, my Trees's remains were exhumed by the 493 00:31:57,645 --> 00:32:03,565 Speaker 1: Los Angeles County Corner's Office. They exhumed my Trees, Clia 494 00:32:03,685 --> 00:32:08,045 Speaker 1: observed what she believed to be a few irregularities, including 495 00:32:08,125 --> 00:32:10,925 Speaker 1: my Teresa's arm position and the fact that her teeth 496 00:32:10,965 --> 00:32:16,285 Speaker 1: were pink. Clia indicated in her report that the pink 497 00:32:16,325 --> 00:32:20,245 Speaker 1: teeth could be a sign of exphyxiation. Some forensic dentists 498 00:32:20,245 --> 00:32:24,525 Speaker 1: have done tests and concluded that pink teeth are caused 499 00:32:24,525 --> 00:32:30,325 Speaker 1: by exphyxiation or violent deaths, including strangulation, exphyxiation of some kind, 500 00:32:30,405 --> 00:32:35,285 Speaker 1: or drowning. That's a theory. Kleiakov also brought up my 501 00:32:35,365 --> 00:32:39,205 Speaker 1: Teresa's clothing. She said clearly that there were no signs 502 00:32:39,205 --> 00:32:43,685 Speaker 1: of decomposition fluids on the clothes, which she said indicated 503 00:32:44,085 --> 00:32:48,245 Speaker 1: that my Teresa's clothing was removed before her body started decomposing. 504 00:32:50,045 --> 00:32:53,005 Speaker 1: So either my Teres took her clothes off herself or 505 00:32:53,005 --> 00:32:59,045 Speaker 1: someone took them off her before she died. Then my 506 00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:02,725 Speaker 1: Teres was buried a second time for some reason on 507 00:33:02,845 --> 00:33:07,045 Speaker 1: that day. Was it better on the day that her 508 00:33:07,085 --> 00:33:10,525 Speaker 1: body was a glum a little better because I don't 509 00:33:10,565 --> 00:33:17,045 Speaker 1: know why, but the workers they like were so nice 510 00:33:17,085 --> 00:33:22,525 Speaker 1: about it. And then they there was a point when 511 00:33:22,525 --> 00:33:25,565 Speaker 1: they were gonna because what happens is they exumee your body. 512 00:33:25,565 --> 00:33:27,125 Speaker 1: It has to be back on the ground within twenty 513 00:33:27,125 --> 00:33:29,845 Speaker 1: four hours. So they take her body, it goes to 514 00:33:29,885 --> 00:33:31,925 Speaker 1: the crimeline, they do everything, and then she comes back. 515 00:33:31,965 --> 00:33:34,325 Speaker 1: I don't know how many hours later, but we had 516 00:33:34,325 --> 00:33:37,685 Speaker 1: to wait. So when they were putting her back, the 517 00:33:37,685 --> 00:33:42,765 Speaker 1: workers like they like gathered around with just themselves and 518 00:33:42,805 --> 00:33:45,765 Speaker 1: they like said a little bremer. It was so sweet. 519 00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:50,365 Speaker 1: And then all the detectives with their raggedy asses were here, 520 00:33:50,485 --> 00:34:03,725 Speaker 1: but I was able to ignore that on that day. 521 00:33:52,725 --> 00:34:08,125 Speaker 1: Sure Undetermined is possibly the only thing more painful for 522 00:34:08,205 --> 00:34:10,525 Speaker 1: family members who suspect that their loved one could have 523 00:34:10,645 --> 00:34:17,165 Speaker 1: died under violent circumstances to hear than homicide, because with undetermined, 524 00:34:17,645 --> 00:34:24,685 Speaker 1: they're in limbo. So how did my trees die? Possibilities 525 00:34:24,725 --> 00:34:28,325 Speaker 1: suggested by the police include anaphylactic shock brought on by 526 00:34:28,405 --> 00:34:32,885 Speaker 1: poison ivy exposure, which is extremely rare, or a rattle 527 00:34:32,885 --> 00:34:36,125 Speaker 1: snake bite, which one or two people per year die 528 00:34:36,125 --> 00:34:40,965 Speaker 1: of in California. There were no broken bones or signs 529 00:34:41,005 --> 00:34:44,085 Speaker 1: of any kind of animal attack. And if my Trees 530 00:34:44,165 --> 00:34:47,085 Speaker 1: did have some sort of allergic reaction or snake bite, 531 00:34:47,565 --> 00:34:50,525 Speaker 1: why would she take her clothes off? Why were her 532 00:34:50,525 --> 00:34:54,605 Speaker 1: shoes and underwear missing? Many people close to the case 533 00:34:54,965 --> 00:34:57,685 Speaker 1: found the fact that the body was only partially mummified 534 00:34:58,005 --> 00:35:02,125 Speaker 1: after eleven months of exposure strange as well. Could My 535 00:35:02,205 --> 00:35:06,365 Speaker 1: Trees's body have been kept somewhere else, maybe inside, and 536 00:35:06,405 --> 00:35:08,445 Speaker 1: then moved to the location where it was found at 537 00:35:08,445 --> 00:35:12,725 Speaker 1: a later date. My Teresa's family also finds it odd 538 00:35:12,725 --> 00:35:15,125 Speaker 1: that her hyoid bone and other bones in the neck 539 00:35:15,165 --> 00:35:18,685 Speaker 1: that could have shown signs of strangulation were among those 540 00:35:18,765 --> 00:35:27,005 Speaker 1: that were not found. My name is Katherine Maloney and 541 00:35:27,045 --> 00:35:30,525 Speaker 1: I am the deputy Chief Medical Examiner in Buffalo, New York. 542 00:35:31,205 --> 00:35:34,805 Speaker 1: We called doctor Catherine Maloney to get an outsider's perspective 543 00:35:34,965 --> 00:35:38,005 Speaker 1: on my Trees's autopsy report. In looking at the autopsy, 544 00:35:38,085 --> 00:35:40,925 Speaker 1: was there anything that stood out to you well in 545 00:35:41,005 --> 00:35:44,045 Speaker 1: terms of the initial autopsy report itself. I mean, it 546 00:35:44,085 --> 00:35:47,165 Speaker 1: looked like it was a very thorough report. Obviously, it 547 00:35:47,205 --> 00:35:49,525 Speaker 1: was a difficult report to do because it seems like 548 00:35:49,765 --> 00:35:53,845 Speaker 1: her body was quite decomposed where they didn't have it 549 00:35:53,925 --> 00:35:56,645 Speaker 1: seemed like any of the internal organs. It was almost 550 00:35:56,645 --> 00:35:59,845 Speaker 1: mostly just a little bit of skin and bones and 551 00:35:59,925 --> 00:36:03,565 Speaker 1: some sort of non specific soft tissue. And also it 552 00:36:03,565 --> 00:36:06,005 Speaker 1: looks like, you know, a fair number of the bones 553 00:36:06,245 --> 00:36:10,045 Speaker 1: were missing as well, which makes you know, determination of 554 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:13,245 Speaker 1: the cause of death difficult, right, and it had been 555 00:36:13,525 --> 00:36:17,925 Speaker 1: eleven months. Well, I know that there have been speculation 556 00:36:18,165 --> 00:36:21,325 Speaker 1: about the mummification of the body, and the fact that 557 00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:23,245 Speaker 1: a lot of people seem to be saying it was 558 00:36:23,285 --> 00:36:25,965 Speaker 1: only partially mummified, so that means, you know, she wasn't 559 00:36:25,965 --> 00:36:28,005 Speaker 1: there the whole time. She had to have be moved. 560 00:36:28,005 --> 00:36:29,685 Speaker 1: And I wondered if you could just tell us a 561 00:36:29,725 --> 00:36:33,725 Speaker 1: little bit about how bodies mummify. So mummification is a 562 00:36:33,765 --> 00:36:39,045 Speaker 1: process where a body kind of dries out. So mummification 563 00:36:39,205 --> 00:36:43,165 Speaker 1: happens when you have a warm or hot, dry environment. 564 00:36:44,165 --> 00:36:47,205 Speaker 1: So if there's moisture around or a lot of moisture, 565 00:36:47,405 --> 00:36:49,765 Speaker 1: a body will not mummify. And I know she was 566 00:36:49,805 --> 00:36:54,165 Speaker 1: in a canyon where I think they sometimes get spring water, 567 00:36:54,565 --> 00:36:56,645 Speaker 1: probably from I don't know if it's from melting snow 568 00:36:57,165 --> 00:36:59,845 Speaker 1: or something like that, so that may have interfered with 569 00:36:59,885 --> 00:37:03,405 Speaker 1: a mummification process. And it also depends what type of 570 00:37:03,405 --> 00:37:06,565 Speaker 1: exposure there is, you know, to animals, and if there's 571 00:37:06,605 --> 00:37:09,205 Speaker 1: any type of you know, moisture, it depends how much 572 00:37:09,205 --> 00:37:12,285 Speaker 1: it might have rained, or if there were trees or 573 00:37:12,445 --> 00:37:14,845 Speaker 1: leaves covering her that would have kept her body damp. 574 00:37:15,405 --> 00:37:19,365 Speaker 1: You know, that can kind of delay mummification as well. 575 00:37:20,205 --> 00:37:22,525 Speaker 1: Let's say like a leg or an arm or something 576 00:37:22,605 --> 00:37:24,645 Speaker 1: was under a pile of leaves or if it was buried, 577 00:37:25,205 --> 00:37:28,685 Speaker 1: could that have caused it not to mummify that part 578 00:37:28,685 --> 00:37:31,445 Speaker 1: of the body. Yes, So if there were portions of 579 00:37:31,485 --> 00:37:33,325 Speaker 1: her body that were under you know, kind of damp 580 00:37:33,445 --> 00:37:37,845 Speaker 1: leaves or other debris, that would have prevented that part 581 00:37:37,885 --> 00:37:40,845 Speaker 1: of the body from mummifying, because really for mummification you 582 00:37:40,925 --> 00:37:46,885 Speaker 1: need to have warm, dry environment. So in response to 583 00:37:46,885 --> 00:37:50,725 Speaker 1: the mummification theories, doctor Maloney said that it would have 584 00:37:50,765 --> 00:37:53,085 Speaker 1: been possible for my trees to have remained in the 585 00:37:53,085 --> 00:37:57,885 Speaker 1: elements for that long and only been partially mummified. We 586 00:37:57,925 --> 00:38:00,125 Speaker 1: also asked doctor Maloney about some of the other working 587 00:38:00,165 --> 00:38:04,485 Speaker 1: theories of the case, including exphyxiation, and I mean, I 588 00:38:04,525 --> 00:38:06,565 Speaker 1: know that we've had some of the other working theories 589 00:38:06,605 --> 00:38:11,565 Speaker 1: about the case have been things like asphyxiation, and you know, 590 00:38:11,685 --> 00:38:13,805 Speaker 1: did she We know she had asthma, so could she 591 00:38:13,845 --> 00:38:16,045 Speaker 1: have had some sort of a fatal asthma attack, possibly 592 00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:18,525 Speaker 1: also strangulation, And I just wondered, is there anything in 593 00:38:18,565 --> 00:38:22,405 Speaker 1: the evidence that indicated any of those things? Well, I 594 00:38:22,445 --> 00:38:25,125 Speaker 1: mean in terms of asthma and an asthma attack. You know, 595 00:38:25,245 --> 00:38:28,365 Speaker 1: her internal organs are gone, which means her lungs are gone. 596 00:38:28,445 --> 00:38:31,285 Speaker 1: So it basically would be impossible to prove if that 597 00:38:31,405 --> 00:38:34,525 Speaker 1: happened or did not happen. In terms of a strangulation. 598 00:38:34,765 --> 00:38:37,365 Speaker 1: It would probably also be very difficult because most of 599 00:38:37,405 --> 00:38:40,445 Speaker 1: the bones of the neck are missing. They describe in 600 00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:43,245 Speaker 1: the autopsy report. They have a few of the vertebra, 601 00:38:43,445 --> 00:38:46,445 Speaker 1: so those are the spinal column that they identify in 602 00:38:46,485 --> 00:38:48,805 Speaker 1: the neck, But otherwise it sounds like the neck structures 603 00:38:48,805 --> 00:38:51,285 Speaker 1: themselves are gone. You know, so people talk about like 604 00:38:51,325 --> 00:38:55,645 Speaker 1: the hyoid bone potentially being broken in a strangulation, or 605 00:38:55,685 --> 00:38:59,205 Speaker 1: the other neck structures that are soft tissue, so muscles 606 00:38:59,405 --> 00:39:01,485 Speaker 1: that would have hemorrhages and things like that that are 607 00:39:01,485 --> 00:39:04,805 Speaker 1: obviously gone as well. So a strangulation in this case 608 00:39:04,845 --> 00:39:08,245 Speaker 1: would be very difficult to identify. And very difficult to 609 00:39:08,325 --> 00:39:12,485 Speaker 1: prove is the hyoid bone still around? I mean, could 610 00:39:12,525 --> 00:39:15,405 Speaker 1: it still be out there somewhere buried. It's definitely possible 611 00:39:15,485 --> 00:39:18,005 Speaker 1: the hyoid bone is still out there, and so this 612 00:39:18,045 --> 00:39:22,285 Speaker 1: becomes part of the issue. When you have skeletonized or 613 00:39:22,325 --> 00:39:26,845 Speaker 1: partially skeletonized remains, it's really critical to have an experienced 614 00:39:26,885 --> 00:39:31,205 Speaker 1: anthropologist or a team of anthropologists go to the scene 615 00:39:31,605 --> 00:39:35,805 Speaker 1: to basically excavate the body because it's very easy for 616 00:39:35,965 --> 00:39:39,365 Speaker 1: people who aren't trained and identifying bones and identifying the 617 00:39:39,445 --> 00:39:42,245 Speaker 1: areas where bones are found. It's very easy for those 618 00:39:42,245 --> 00:39:45,965 Speaker 1: people to miss bones or potential pieces of evidence. So, 619 00:39:46,045 --> 00:39:48,885 Speaker 1: for example, when we've had cases with skeletonized remains or 620 00:39:48,925 --> 00:39:52,565 Speaker 1: partially skeletonized remains, we have had a team of anthropologists 621 00:39:52,645 --> 00:39:55,925 Speaker 1: go and they basically chart out the area. So they'll 622 00:39:55,965 --> 00:39:58,765 Speaker 1: put down, you know, strings and sticks, and they'll make 623 00:39:58,845 --> 00:40:01,765 Speaker 1: a grid and they'll go through each area of the 624 00:40:01,805 --> 00:40:04,525 Speaker 1: grid and sift through the dirt like literally get like 625 00:40:04,565 --> 00:40:07,285 Speaker 1: a giant sift and sift through the dirt to make 626 00:40:07,285 --> 00:40:11,205 Speaker 1: sure they're not missing anything. And then the identify where 627 00:40:11,245 --> 00:40:14,125 Speaker 1: the bones are and then nail diagram exactly where each 628 00:40:14,245 --> 00:40:16,405 Speaker 1: bone was found. So you can get a sense of 629 00:40:16,445 --> 00:40:19,485 Speaker 1: how the person's body was lying, you know, in the ground, 630 00:40:19,485 --> 00:40:21,405 Speaker 1: you know, was it was it partially buried, was it 631 00:40:21,485 --> 00:40:24,165 Speaker 1: head down, was it seat down, was it face down? 632 00:40:24,245 --> 00:40:27,045 Speaker 1: Was it on its back? So information like that can 633 00:40:27,085 --> 00:40:29,525 Speaker 1: be critical to a forensic pathologist, and that's why it's 634 00:40:29,565 --> 00:40:32,565 Speaker 1: really the most information that could be obtained in a 635 00:40:32,565 --> 00:40:36,365 Speaker 1: case like this. Unfortunately, where the remains are are really skeletonized, 636 00:40:36,445 --> 00:40:39,525 Speaker 1: are you know, the scene itself and how the body's 637 00:40:39,605 --> 00:40:42,485 Speaker 1: kind of laid out, and then getting all those bones 638 00:40:42,525 --> 00:40:47,085 Speaker 1: so you can you know, examine every single one of them. Unfortunately, 639 00:40:47,565 --> 00:40:50,805 Speaker 1: this did not happen in my Teresa's case, and I 640 00:40:50,845 --> 00:40:54,325 Speaker 1: mean obviously in this case it was There's another issue 641 00:40:54,365 --> 00:40:57,205 Speaker 1: because the well, there was an argument between the sheriff's 642 00:40:57,205 --> 00:40:59,765 Speaker 1: department and the corner that they the sheriff's department made 643 00:40:59,765 --> 00:41:02,845 Speaker 1: the decision kind of against the corner's you know, advice 644 00:41:02,965 --> 00:41:05,805 Speaker 1: or knowledge to just pick everything up and put it 645 00:41:05,805 --> 00:41:08,685 Speaker 1: in a helicopter and move it, which I guess I mean, 646 00:41:08,725 --> 00:41:12,365 Speaker 1: after that it becomes probably really hard to figure out 647 00:41:12,405 --> 00:41:16,365 Speaker 1: what happened. Yeah, this situation is really unfortunate and would 648 00:41:16,365 --> 00:41:19,325 Speaker 1: have made it very difficult for the forensic pathologists involved 649 00:41:19,325 --> 00:41:23,045 Speaker 1: and the medical examiner or corner involved to determine the 650 00:41:23,085 --> 00:41:26,045 Speaker 1: cause of death. And I mean it's nothing. It happens 651 00:41:26,045 --> 00:41:28,085 Speaker 1: in our jurisdiction too, you know, the you know, the 652 00:41:28,125 --> 00:41:30,165 Speaker 1: police are trying to help or they think, yeah, I'll 653 00:41:30,245 --> 00:41:32,405 Speaker 1: just scoop the stuff up and transport it and then 654 00:41:32,725 --> 00:41:35,285 Speaker 1: you guys don't have to come, or you can't come, 655 00:41:35,325 --> 00:41:36,885 Speaker 1: you know, in an area where it's difficult to go. 656 00:41:37,005 --> 00:41:39,565 Speaker 1: And you know a lot of times too, it'll happen 657 00:41:39,605 --> 00:41:41,965 Speaker 1: like it'll be starting to get dark and the police 658 00:41:42,005 --> 00:41:44,245 Speaker 1: will say like, oh, well we can't you know, it's 659 00:41:44,285 --> 00:41:46,405 Speaker 1: getting dark. We have to move these remains. We can't 660 00:41:46,485 --> 00:41:49,165 Speaker 1: leave them overnight in the dark. And what our anthropologist 661 00:41:49,205 --> 00:41:51,725 Speaker 1: always says, especially with skeletonized remains, you know, it's like 662 00:41:51,725 --> 00:41:54,605 Speaker 1: these are skeletonized remains. That means they've been here for 663 00:41:55,045 --> 00:41:58,565 Speaker 1: you know, weeks, if not months, maybe years. They can 664 00:41:58,605 --> 00:42:01,765 Speaker 1: wait one more night, you know, in terms of them 665 00:42:01,845 --> 00:42:03,725 Speaker 1: just lying there, and we can do this in the 666 00:42:03,765 --> 00:42:06,525 Speaker 1: morning when we have daylight, you know, when everyone's rested 667 00:42:06,565 --> 00:42:08,925 Speaker 1: and everybody's fresh. We've done that more on more than 668 00:42:08,925 --> 00:42:11,605 Speaker 1: one occasion where he basically said, you know, like put 669 00:42:11,685 --> 00:42:14,885 Speaker 1: up a tent, put up some tarps, you know, make 670 00:42:14,925 --> 00:42:16,925 Speaker 1: sure that the you know, the road to this area 671 00:42:16,965 --> 00:42:18,605 Speaker 1: is guarded, or if you can, you know, have someone 672 00:42:18,645 --> 00:42:20,845 Speaker 1: wait to guard the remains so nothing happens to them. 673 00:42:21,085 --> 00:42:23,085 Speaker 1: And then first thing in the morning, we'll have our 674 00:42:23,125 --> 00:42:25,365 Speaker 1: team come. We'll have daylight, we'll be able to see 675 00:42:25,365 --> 00:42:27,245 Speaker 1: what's going on, and then everyone can sort of do 676 00:42:27,325 --> 00:42:48,085 Speaker 1: their job. She also said that clear costs suspicions about 677 00:42:48,125 --> 00:42:52,205 Speaker 1: the curled up arm are inconclusive, but it's hard to 678 00:42:52,245 --> 00:42:55,445 Speaker 1: say because we don't know the original position the body 679 00:42:55,525 --> 00:43:01,085 Speaker 1: was found in. And in terms of DNA evidence on hair, 680 00:43:01,805 --> 00:43:04,885 Speaker 1: doctor Maloney said that most of that would have most 681 00:43:04,965 --> 00:43:08,285 Speaker 1: likely been to droid. With the sun and the heat 682 00:43:08,645 --> 00:43:14,045 Speaker 1: and time, DNA would almost certainly not survive, and testing 683 00:43:14,165 --> 00:43:19,525 Speaker 1: DNA on clothing is particularly difficult. Labs only accept small fibers. 684 00:43:20,165 --> 00:43:24,245 Speaker 1: A whole shirt, for example, can't be tested. Yeah. No, 685 00:43:24,365 --> 00:43:26,245 Speaker 1: I mean I think that the lows that night were 686 00:43:26,245 --> 00:43:30,005 Speaker 1: in the sixties, so it wasn't particularly I mean, it's California, September. 687 00:43:30,605 --> 00:43:32,045 Speaker 1: It does get a little chilli at night up there, 688 00:43:32,085 --> 00:43:34,485 Speaker 1: but not I don't know if it's possible to die 689 00:43:34,525 --> 00:43:37,085 Speaker 1: of I don't know if it's possible to dive exposure 690 00:43:37,165 --> 00:43:40,565 Speaker 1: at you know, temperatures in the fifties, maybe if you 691 00:43:40,645 --> 00:43:43,045 Speaker 1: got wet. So I feel like if your clothing was 692 00:43:43,045 --> 00:43:44,805 Speaker 1: wet and you didn't take off your wet clothes, I 693 00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:48,325 Speaker 1: think it's possible maybe in the fifties because the being 694 00:43:48,365 --> 00:43:50,205 Speaker 1: wet would kind of leach more of the heat out 695 00:43:50,205 --> 00:43:52,765 Speaker 1: of your body. But I think if your body's dry, 696 00:43:52,925 --> 00:43:55,405 Speaker 1: depending on what you're wearing in the fifties, I say, 697 00:43:55,405 --> 00:43:57,245 Speaker 1: it's a lot less likely to die of You're a 698 00:43:57,245 --> 00:43:59,205 Speaker 1: lot less lucky to die of hypothermia than if you 699 00:43:59,205 --> 00:44:01,245 Speaker 1: know it's in the twenties or the teens or something 700 00:44:01,325 --> 00:44:08,285 Speaker 1: like that. Finally, doctor Maloney, if anything else could be done, 701 00:44:08,445 --> 00:44:11,365 Speaker 1: well at this point, it's going to be difficult, that's 702 00:44:11,405 --> 00:44:14,245 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, I suppose that attempt could be 703 00:44:14,285 --> 00:44:15,965 Speaker 1: made with the clothing. I mean, if you could get 704 00:44:16,005 --> 00:44:19,085 Speaker 1: someone who you know, was some type of expert in 705 00:44:19,205 --> 00:44:23,165 Speaker 1: looking at, you know, clothing of assault victims and identifying 706 00:44:23,205 --> 00:44:26,285 Speaker 1: stains or what might be a relevant stain or you know, 707 00:44:26,325 --> 00:44:29,405 Speaker 1: a potentially informative stain who could look at the clothes. 708 00:44:29,645 --> 00:44:32,285 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they could give some information. I mean 709 00:44:32,405 --> 00:44:34,845 Speaker 1: maybe revisiting the scene, although I'm sure it's I think 710 00:44:34,885 --> 00:44:37,005 Speaker 1: it's it sounded like it's been done multiple times, But 711 00:44:37,085 --> 00:44:39,485 Speaker 1: trying to find those extra pieces of bone might be 712 00:44:39,485 --> 00:44:42,245 Speaker 1: almost impossible. But I mean, if if you could find, 713 00:44:42,565 --> 00:44:45,165 Speaker 1: you know, the hyoid bone or the next structures and 714 00:44:45,205 --> 00:44:47,205 Speaker 1: see if they have any types of injuries. But really, 715 00:44:47,245 --> 00:44:50,165 Speaker 1: I mean, the hyoid bone is maybe an inch long. 716 00:44:50,925 --> 00:44:53,285 Speaker 1: So if if the bones are or the you know, 717 00:44:53,605 --> 00:44:55,685 Speaker 1: where she was found, every if anything was spread out 718 00:44:55,725 --> 00:44:57,405 Speaker 1: at all, you know, it might be difficult to find, 719 00:44:57,485 --> 00:45:00,645 Speaker 1: especially if there was some type of animal scavenging. You know, 720 00:45:00,645 --> 00:45:02,445 Speaker 1: an animal might have just kind of run off with it. 721 00:45:03,965 --> 00:45:06,205 Speaker 1: We also followed up with a friend as a botanist 722 00:45:06,325 --> 00:45:11,245 Speaker 1: an entomologist, and both of them said, forensically, nothing more 723 00:45:11,445 --> 00:45:14,805 Speaker 1: can be done at this point. And in regards to 724 00:45:14,845 --> 00:45:18,165 Speaker 1: the pink teeth theory, we reached out to three forensic 725 00:45:18,165 --> 00:45:23,525 Speaker 1: identologists to see if that could definitively prove anything. One 726 00:45:23,645 --> 00:45:26,245 Speaker 1: reached back out to us and he made it clear 727 00:45:26,445 --> 00:45:30,605 Speaker 1: that he thinks the pink teeth theory is absurd. Quote, 728 00:45:31,565 --> 00:45:35,085 Speaker 1: the pink teeth are a red pink herring. There is 729 00:45:35,165 --> 00:45:38,325 Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever to suggest that pink teeth are related 730 00:45:38,365 --> 00:45:41,285 Speaker 1: to his phixial deaths, just one of those anecdotes that 731 00:45:41,365 --> 00:45:45,045 Speaker 1: gained too much credence over discussion in bars. The idea 732 00:45:45,085 --> 00:45:47,085 Speaker 1: that you could force blood into teeth in this way 733 00:45:47,685 --> 00:45:52,125 Speaker 1: or prevent it escaping is biologically implausible and no one 734 00:45:52,165 --> 00:45:56,885 Speaker 1: would give it much thought today. End quote. So he 735 00:45:56,925 --> 00:46:00,565 Speaker 1: says that the pink teeth are not conclusive proof of strangulation, 736 00:46:02,245 --> 00:46:04,605 Speaker 1: But there's another piece of the puzzle that's still missing. 737 00:46:05,725 --> 00:46:10,205 Speaker 1: Teresa's hyoid bone is still out there, and it's the 738 00:46:10,245 --> 00:46:14,085 Speaker 1: one piece of evidence that could provide answers about whether 739 00:46:14,205 --> 00:46:20,125 Speaker 1: or not my Terse was strangled. Next time on Helen Gone, 740 00:46:21,125 --> 00:46:23,245 Speaker 1: and it's like as far as being a woman, you know, 741 00:46:23,445 --> 00:46:25,485 Speaker 1: like and they released us at that time of night, 742 00:46:25,965 --> 00:46:29,045 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it wasn't okay. They were fucking 743 00:46:29,085 --> 00:46:32,165 Speaker 1: the wild West back then. The risk of suicide is 744 00:46:32,205 --> 00:46:37,645 Speaker 1: significantly elevated in people experiencing bipolar disorder. Look, I totally 745 00:46:37,725 --> 00:46:39,845 Speaker 1: understand how you were just the jailer that night and 746 00:46:39,925 --> 00:46:42,165 Speaker 1: you did your job and then you're like everyone's coming 747 00:46:42,165 --> 00:46:43,845 Speaker 1: down hard on you. I get that that would suck, 748 00:46:45,005 --> 00:46:52,125 Speaker 1: But again, like there's the compassion I'm Catherine Townsend and 749 00:46:52,165 --> 00:46:56,165 Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of 750 00:46:56,205 --> 00:46:59,685 Speaker 1: School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It's written and narrated by 751 00:46:59,725 --> 00:47:03,765 Speaker 1: me Catherine Townsend. Our producers are Gabby Watts, Taylor Church 752 00:47:03,885 --> 00:47:07,885 Speaker 1: and James Morrison. Music is by Ben Sale. Mixed is 753 00:47:07,885 --> 00:47:12,325 Speaker 1: by Tunewelders. Our executive producers are Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley 754 00:47:12,765 --> 00:47:16,525 Speaker 1: and Brian Lavin. Special thanks to Chip Croft for use 755 00:47:16,565 --> 00:47:37,605 Speaker 1: of footage from his documentary Lost Compassion, School of Humans. 756 00:47:43,925 --> 00:47:44,845 Speaker 1: School of Humans