WEBVTT - Realms of Myth Playlist, Part 3: Talos 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.880 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:14.480 Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.239 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.560 And today we're gonna be talking about themes of technology 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.919 in ancient Greek literature. But before we get there, we 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.440 have to go to the slightly related, actually very related 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.400 topic of what's your favorite killer robot movie? Robert? Oh, well, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.720 you know, outside of some of the obvious choices from 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.040 saying you know, the Terminator movies, can't say Terminator or 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.680 even the RoboCop movies, you get into a weird territory. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.280 Is that a robot? Is it a cyborg? Right? I 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.120 would say my easy pick is the killer red robot 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.480 Maximilian from the Disney movie The Black Hole. Oh yeah, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.800 I've never seen it. Oh he's terrifying because he just 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.680 he floats around feet do not touch the surface of 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.240 the ship, and has his menacing red visor that just 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.600 peers into your soul and has these spinning blade hands 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.959 that it utilizes to at one point murder Anthony Perkins 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.480 in Cold Blood. No Anthony Perkins. Yeah, well, after Psycho, 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.520 I guess he had it coming. Well, you know, and 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.720 this movie was great. In this movie, you felt sorry 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.960 for him. If he showed up showing up in Psycho 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.240 were than that would that would be a different matter altogether. 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.199 Now I have probably got to go to the movie. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:29.280 Chopping Mall is a eighties robots slasher set in the 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.920 shopping mall at night where security robots go haywire. I 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.800 think their computer gets struck by lightning or something and 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.640 then they decide, well, they've got to kill all the 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.039 people who are hanging out overnight in the in the mall. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.520 That is a delicious movie. Yeah. But also, how about 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.520 You'll Brenner in the original West World. Oh yeah, he's 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.040 super menacing and I'm up until his face falls off, 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:53.040 I guess. But before Westworld was like a thoughtful HBO series, 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:55.680 it was a cheesy old movie with You'll You'll Brenner 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.200 pulling guns on people. Yeah, yeah, he was. He was terrifying. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.800 He I mean, you Brennan was always entertaining, but he 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.400 was kind of made to play a killer, emotionless robot. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.919 I would say some of the best killer robots stuff 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.120 in movies. When killer robots are scary, the fact that 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.280 they're scary comes not from malice or ill intent, like 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.280 it might in a monster or in a human villain 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.280 or something like that. The great thing about a killer 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.920 robot in a scary movie is that it's terror is 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.720 derived from the fact that it has no will of 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.720 its own or no intention. It's just sort of like 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.960 a an efficient, emotionless killing machine. All it has is 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.880 directive and it it absolutely will not stop until it 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.160 achieves it. Now, we obviously think of themes like this 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.160 emerging in the fiction primarily of the twentieth century. Right, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.320 that's when we think science fiction in earnest really shows 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:49.800 up the way we know it now. I know you 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.480 have Jules Verned before that, but the twentie centuries when 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.440 you really start getting your killer robots everywhere. But today 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.160 we're going to go back. Oh yes, we're gonna go 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.440 back to a fat be list example of what is 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:07.240 perhaps the very first killer robot that humans ever dreamt up. 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.959 And it it's not from the twentieth century, it's not 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.480 from the nineteenth or even it is from the ancient 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:19.040 Greek world, and its name is Talos. Talos, yes, the 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.280 man of Bronze, the bronze automaton. I want to quote 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:28.120 from Edith Hamilton's version of the classic story of the 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.760 Quest for the Golden Fleece now Edith Hamilton's Classic Mythology. 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.640 That this is a great old textbook on Greek mythology. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.200 If you haven't had a chance to check it out, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.840 it was just wonderful to leave through. Every personal library 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.520 needs a copy of this. But so she does a 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.920 really good job of taking disparate elements of story traditions 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.920 and sort of pasting them together into composite, synthetic versions 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.320 of the stories. So I want to sort of summarize 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.400 the Quest for the Golden Fleece. You can't hit all 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.720 the great points, but here's how it goes. So you've 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.560 got this young hero j Son, and in order to 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.720 reclaim his rightful kingdom from a usurper king, Jason is 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.560 on a quest to retrieve a sacred artifact, which is 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.640 a golden fleece from a magic ram that saved the 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.920 life of a Greek prince long ago, and he's accompanied 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.200 by a crew of other heroes known as the Argonauts. 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.920 This is where we get Jason and the Argonauts, and 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.279 on the way to retrieve the artifact, he has to 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.440 face many trials with his companions. One of the trials 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.839 that Hamilton's talks about is how Hercules is on the 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.600 on the ship with him and hercules friend gets yanked 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.960 down into a spring by this nymph type creature and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.560 Hercules is roaming around the woods trying to find him 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.479 and eventually gets lost and wanders off. So you would think, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.559 you know, you got Hercules in your career, you're set, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.880 but it turns out he's easily distracted. Yes. Another trial 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.479 is when Jason and the Argonauts have to battle with 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.680 evil harpies on behalf of this wretched old man who 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.000 has the gift of future site. So the old man 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.919 is a prophet, but he's been cursed so that anytime 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.320 him he goes to eat some food, harpies zoomed down 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.360 down out of the sky and they terrorize him, and 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.880 they foul the food he's eating. I'm not sure exactly 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.719 what they do to it. It's they're described as foul smelling, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.320 so maybe they just put him off it. Well, I'm 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.520 just imagining just a tussle of harpy feathers and and 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.680 harpy excrement and just all manner of nastiness. Yeah, And 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:24.920 so they have to sail their ship through some crashing 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.080 rocks and all all kinds of stuff like that. But 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.120 eventually Jason is able to capture the artifacts the Golden Fleece, 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.839 but only with the help of the powerful witch, Princess Medea, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.360 Uh one of the greatest sorceresses in all of fiction media. 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.000 Is awesome. So she has fallen in love with him, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.680 but not entirely of her own volition, because she was 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.440 compelled into love by an arrow of Cupid, because Aphrodite 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.000 intervened on his behalf. So after they get the fleece, 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.880 Jason and Medea and the rest of the crew of 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.680 the argo Or sailing towards Jason's home. And on the 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.080 journey they passed by the island of Crete, and here 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.800 I want to read a direct quote from Hamilton's telling 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.000 of the story. Next came Crete, where they would have 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.640 landed but for Medea. She told them that Talus lived there, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.680 the last man left of the ancient Bronze race, a 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.520 creature made all of bronze except one ankle, where alone 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.960 he was vulnerable. Even as she spoke, he appeared terrible 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.200 to behold, and threatened to crush the ship with rocks 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:35.680 if they drew nearer. They rested on their oars, and Medea, kneeling, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.120 prayed to the hounds of Hades to come and destroy him. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.160 The dread powers of evil heard her, as the bronze 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.479 man lifted a pointed crag to hurl it at the argo. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.360 He grazed his ankle, and the blood gushed forth until 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.599 he sank and died. Then the heroes could land and 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.200 refresh themselves for the voyage still before them. Now, this 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.720 is only one telling of the story of Talos, the 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.240 mighty Man of Bronze, and to get a little bit 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.600 more detail, I think we should look at a translation 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.840 of the text of the story as told by Apollonius 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.760 of Rhodes in his work the Argonautica, which is one 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.800 version of this story I've just been talking about. Yes, 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.000 Apollonius rights he was of the stock of bronze, of 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.720 the men's spring from ash trees, the last left among 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.560 the sons of the gods, and the sons of Chronos 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.640 gave him to Europa to be the warder of crete, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.040 and destroyed around the island thrice a day with his 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.320 feet of bronze. Now in all the rest of his 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.800 body and limbs he was fashioned of bronze and invulnerable, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.160 but beneath the sinew of his ankle was a blood 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.720 red vein, and this, with its issue of life and death, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.040 was covered by a thin skin. Now, so you've got 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.160 a bronze guy. You've got a bronze guy, and he 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.160 has this weak point in his his his ankle, very 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.320 much like Achilles. The legend of Achilles also weak only 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.920 in his ankle at his heel, right, because that's where 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.880 was held as he was dipped into into the river sticks. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.440 But we get a different explanation for the vulnerability in 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.920 this story. Now it's a technological vulnerability. Yeah. And I 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:11.360 think this is this is the key, and this is 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.640 something we're going to discuss over and over again in 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.440 this episode. Is that it's easy to just dismiss this 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.960 tale because Talus does not have other adventures. He basically 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.360 shows up kind of like a dungeon and Dragon's random encounter, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.680 and he's dispatched. The main story about him is his 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.760 death right. And you can also say, well, it sounds 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.840 a lot like Achilles. It's kind of like a bronze 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.760 It's like a robot knockoff of Achilles to a certain extent, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.000 but when you really start digging into it, the technological 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.600 aspect of this is absolutely phenomenal. Now, one great source 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:50.040 on the tradition of the Talus character is the author 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:54.000 Merlin Paris, who wrote the article Talos and Dadalus, a 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.360 review of the authorship of the Abominable Bronze Man in 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.800 the Ceylon Journal of Humanities from nineteen seventy one. And 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.760 this is a fantastic article, so we will bring him 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.600 up several times throughout this episode. Now, one thing Paris 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.000 points out is that not all versions of the Talus 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.320 story described tall Us exactly the same. Sometimes his body 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.720 has different features or characteristics depending on who the author is. 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.400 Yes and days we'll discuss. Even the size fluctuates. One 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.480 thing we always have to remember with Greek myths in 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.559 particular is that they evolve. I mean, all myths are 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:30.320 subject to change over time and over place, depending on 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.520 who's telling the tale and who and when they are 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.720 telling it. And that's certainly the case with Greek mythology. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.640 So for example, Apollonius of Rhodes, who was writing in 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.440 the third century, had said that this this vein, this 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.520 vein inside him was only apparent under the sinew of 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.280 his ankle, right, the one ankle, Yeah, But then there 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.680 are other accounts that say that it's stretched from the 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.000 neck down to both ankles. So that was Appolodorus, right, Yes, 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.160 So this vein is full of what's known as echor, 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.520 which in Greek myth is the life blood of the gods. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.960 Sometimes it's described as golden instead of red, though in 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.200 most of the stories I've seen about Talus it is 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:12.200 described as red. In the Iliad, when the gods, for example, Aphrodite, 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.040 are cut or stabbed with spears, they can be harmed, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.720 their skin can be pierced, and they leak fluid. But 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.600 the fluid they leak is not blood but ichor. So 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.680 to quote from the Iliad, quote, the point tore through 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.720 the ambrosial robe which the graces had woven for Aphrodite, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.720 and pierce the skin between her wrist and the palm 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.040 of her hand, so that the immortal blood or ichor, 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.400 that flows in the veins of the blessed gods came 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.480 pouring from the wound. For the gods do not eat 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.920 bread nor drink wine. Hence they have no blood such 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.920 as ours and our immortal I love the conflicting ideas here, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.800 like the idea that the God can be injured and 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.880 the God can bleed, but they are in some sense immortal. 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.680 They have bodies, they can leak fluid, they can be hurt, 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.120 but the idea of immortality. He is somehow more bound 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.000 up in what goes into their body and what comes 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.400 out of it than what can be done to it. Yes, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.959 and it's it's important to note here that this does 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.000 not mean that tal Us is a god. All all 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.120 accounts indicate that he is a manufactured thing, but of 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.599 course the manufacturer changes depending on the different tails. But 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.240 but still he is. He is like this artificial creation 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.240 that has been filled with life because he's been filled 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.240 with core. So the ecre maybe for for the bronze man, 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.160 Talus is not essential to his nature, but is something 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.240 that has been used to give him the properties he has, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.400 maybe the properties of life for animation. Right. Yeah, this 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.400 it's the gasoline for your large bronze death column, the 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.800 oil in the car. Now. This makes me think about 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.720 how both monsters and robots and fiction are often identified 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.320 by the different color of their blood. I think about 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.360 like the Aliens and the X Files that have green 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.960 blood or you know, it's not just the X File 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.280 as I think about it. There's a great scene in 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.400 Fright Night where there's a guy who you just think 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.720 is like a normal vampire, is familiar, but then he 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.280 starts bleeding and I think his blood is green? Is 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.440 that right? I believe so. Yeah. But anyway, it's it's 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.600 all all all over the place in fiction. But it's 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.320 not just monsters. It's robots too. I think about Ash 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.520 spraying the milk white blood everywhere an alien when he 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.040 gets bashed up, and I think this goes to the 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.160 deep metaphorical understanding we have of blood as like the 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.240 essence of a person, in the sense that close family members, 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.240 which in material terms are those animals with which you 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.880 share the most essential genetic similarity, are quote your blood indeed, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.880 And of course it's also worth noting that I believe 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.760 film ratings sometimes come into play. I've I've read that 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.280 if you have a humanoid spouting green paint white or 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.680 say amber blood, you can still earn yourself with PG. Thirteen. 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.280 But if it's if the if the stuff is red, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.760 then you're probably gonna get an r. Oh wow, you 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.360 know I was gonna say, well, I wonder if that 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.240 played a role in it's in its use in the Iliad. 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.280 But no, the iliots full of blood. They didn't shy 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.400 away from blood there. Oh well, without getting into the 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.800 whole issue of of colors in the works of Homer, right, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.319 that's an entirely different topic, maybe for a different day. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.000 So Talos, so we've got him as this bronze man 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.160 made of bronze. He's got this vein of ecore somewhere 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.960 in his body going down to his ankle or both ankles, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:29.400 that contains this lifeblood or essential ethereal liquid inside the 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.240 gods that has animated this bronze creature to some extent. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.400 And he stands on the island throwing rocks at any 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.000 ship that tries to dock. We saw in apollonius tale 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.600 that he apparently runs around the island of crete three 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.280 times a day, three times a day, which is impossible. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.520 I was tempted to do the math on it, or 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.800 I was actually kind of surprised that nobody else has 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.640 a paper oute there breaking down exactly how fast and 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.319 how large Talos would have to be to pull this off. 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.880 But that's not the only thing that tell Us can do. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.040 So he can curl rocks at your ship, But what 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.080 if you come ashore? Does he still pose a risk? Then? Oh? 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.319 Does he? Ever? He has this this beautifully grotesque superpower 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.880 of being able to apparently jump into the fire, heat 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.760 its body up, and then come out and embrace the enemy. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.400 So here, so the enemy soldiers say they've landed. Here 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.280 comes Talis leaping out of the fire, applies a huge 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.440 bear hug and just immolates you in his embrace. And 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:30.040 according to that, that's amazing. And it gets even better, 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.840 according to to Merlin paris Uh. Some argue that the 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:39.920 term sardonic grin may have originated with the victims of 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.800 this death. This at least according to Symonides, who wrote 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.880 the Talus resided in Sardinia before coming to Crete, and 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.400 he had already destroyed many of the Sardinians, presumably leaving 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.720 them with peeled back, appealed back grin of a of 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.760 a you know, of of the burnt dead. Yeah, the 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.880 idea of the grimace. And and this is a big 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.560 question actually in the the etymology you of this term. 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.240 Where does the idea of the sardonic grin come from? 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.720 Or the resist sardonicus which I think actually literally means 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.479 sardonic laughter, not sardonic grin, but the ideas get conflated 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.560 in the history of the terms. Um, so yeah, yeah, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.560 where does this idea come from? Now? Another version I've 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.880 heard so one is that he is crushing the Sardinians, 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.600 and he's crushing them and burning them with his red 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.680 hot embrace, and that in their death their grimaces turned 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.240 into grins. But then also I Paris talks about the 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.720 idea that the grin goes to the robot itself, right, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.480 that this that Talos would grin have this creepy grin 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.520 when he was hugging people to death with his burning arms. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.040 Another version of the explanation for this, which is kind 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.520 of a side note from Talis, but I thought it 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.080 was interesting, so I should bring it up. No one 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.600 knows for sure where it came from, but the idea 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.000 of the sardonic grin has also been potentially traced to 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.240 a totally different Sardinian threat. So ancient history told these 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.640 stories that on the island of Sardinia, the pre Roman 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.880 inhabitants had this ritual custom for dealing with criminals and 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.960 for euthanizing elderly people who couldn't care for themselves, and 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.400 what they would do is they would drug them with 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:19.720 an intoxicating poison that caused the victim's facial muscles to 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.640 contract into a creepy grin and become paralyzed, hence the 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.120 sardonic grin of Sardinia. And then while the victims were 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.600 drugged out, they could be thrown off a cliff or 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.160 beaten to death. It started outstounding reasonably humane for the 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.040 ancient world world, and maybe it still is, depending on 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.160 how you look at it. There's just not much that's 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.360 reasonably humane in the ancient world. But anyway, so in 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.960 two thousand nine, a study by scientists at the University 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.440 of Eastern Piedmont in Italy claimed to trace this story, 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.560 if true, to an herb native to Sardinia called the 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.960 hemlock water drop ward or enanthe crocata, also known commonly 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.040 as water cellery. But this is not a good candidate 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.080 to stick in your you, mary, because the stem and 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.600 the root of this plant are apparently a significant threat 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.679 to fatal human poisonings. One example, sometime in the late nineties, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.399 a Sardinian shepherd committed suicide by eating water dropwoard and 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.200 his corpse was apparently found grinning. Now the name ennth 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.080 means wine flower, and crocata in particular has apparently a 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.719 quote paradoxical Swedish and pleasant taste and odor, and this 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.960 makes it more dangerous than a lot of other plants, 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.119 especially plants in the same genus which are also poisonous 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.280 but have a bitter taste which kind of keeps you 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.879 from eating too much of it. And because of its 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.760 ability to cause the facial muscles to contract into the 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.320 risus sardonicus, and because Sardinia is the only place in 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.120 the Mediterranean where this plant commonly grows, the researchers think 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.240 that it is probably the Sardinian death herb from the 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.239 ancient stories, and thus the origin of the idea of 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.720 the sardonic grin. Now back to Talus though, Okay, so 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.920 I'm sorry to take a sup it's a fascinating diversion, 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:04.360 But the bronze killer oasis, as will explore, there are 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.399 two key origin stories for this mechanical marvel, so in 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.280 some tales he really most of the older tales he 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.520 was created by Hephestus, the god of the forge, the 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.120 later known as Vulcan, the Blacksmith, God of Olympus. Yeah, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.919 the deformed god when and who. If you visit Birmingham, Alabama, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.680 you get to see his likeness on the horizon because 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.680 they have the statue of Vulcan. I didn't know that. Yeah, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.680 it's it's interesting. It's one of the few I guess 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:38.600 pagan uh tourists stops in the American South. But in 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:44.240 later tellings, Uh, the inventor Daedalus constructs this artificial being. Yeah, 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.879 the master inventor, the creator of the Manoan Maize, the 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:53.240 Wings of Icarus and other marvels, the famed mythical inventor. Yeah, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.920 and it's but this is interesting as well because Talos, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.920 the the bronze atomic on here curiously bears the same 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.960 name as the inventor. The Dadalists tried to murder out 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.879 of jealousy earlier on pushing him out of out of 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:14.720 a tower, although Athena saves this mortal Talus by turning 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.760 him into a partridge so we can fly away. Yeah, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.239 and his paper Paris talks about the the number of 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.280 stories along these lines. But it's like an Athenian tradition 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.919 that Dadalus was in Athens and he had this pupil 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.160 who was very talented, and he was a little too talented. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.120 A dadalists got a little territorial, got a little jealous 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.360 and pushed him off the acropolis. Yeah, that the original Talus, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.280 if we want to call him that, the mortal Talus. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.840 He's attributed with with inventing the saw really things. So yeah, 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.200 Dedalist is standing. There's like Jeesus as saw. That's genius. 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:47.639 Why didn't I think of that? I just want to 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.199 push you out of a towel, and he does. This 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.439 is a great argument for not showing up your boss 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.600 in a meeting or being too clever. You're gonna get 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.480 pushed out of a tower. You just know it's coming 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.520 exactly now. One last note about that tell Us, that 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.520 original human Talus was apparently also known as Callous in 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.040 some traditions, so there's some differences in the name. But anyway, 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.199 So back to tell Us. In the story of the 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.119 Golden Fleet, so you've got Jason and the argonauts and 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.159 Media especially now in most of the good versions of 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:19.920 the story, Media is the one who takes him down 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.000 right right, and it and most of them, and has 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.160 to do with the removing of a bronze nail from 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.480 that ankle again, that weak point that's that's connected to 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.920 the vein that runs all the way through Talus's body. Uh, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:38.200 she unplugs it. She unplugs the bronze nail, which causes uh, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.640 the echer to pour out of his body, draining him 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.080 of all life and movement. And there's actually a wonderful 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.879 vase and Athenian vase from four hundred BC that illustrates this, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.119 and I'll make sure to include that image on the 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.440 landing page for this episode. It's stuff to blow your mind. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.520 Dot Com. You should take a look at this because 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.359 it's awesome. Talus has ripped. His pecks are like the 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:04.360 size of ours. But actually, one thing that you might 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.560 notice in this vase is that, so, okay, you've got 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.399 a bronze man and he seems to be stumbling and 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.639 falling down, but he's the same size as all the 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.280 other dudes around him, which makes sense when you think 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.720 about the the the the embrace that the deadly burning 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.000 bear hug of the giant. Exactly. So when I read 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.520 this story in the say the version told by Apollonius 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.040 of Rhodes, I think of tal Us as this hundred 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.840 foot tall giant, And it seems that most modern commentators 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:37.080 have just assumed him to be towering, to be a giant, 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.000 like in the Ray Harry House in movies, where when 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.280 you see tal Us he's this huge godzilla like figure. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.080 But Paris points out that most of the ancient authors 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.200 didn't describe him this way, and that logically, like you're saying, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.639 he couldn't have been that much bigger than a man. 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.160 How else could he do this this heating embrace, heating, 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:01.159 the scalding, burning, roasting embrace. Now, one exception to this 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.880 seems to be the author of the Orphic Argonautica, which 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.919 is a different telling of the Argonautica, who called him 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:13.440 quote a bronze thrice giant or tree giganta. The line 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.199