WEBVTT - Harlan Coben 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the fob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:16.640 My guest today is waiter Harlan Covid. Harlan, I'm good 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.400 to be here. So where exactly are you right now, 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.759 New Jersey About a half hour outside of my hat. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.799 And to what degree is COVID affected you in your lifestyle? Well, 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.640 me personally, not so much. Social isolation is what we 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.919 writers do. Uh, I'm fat. I had more people home 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.360 and was busier because my kids who were all rage 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.519 in age from eighteen to twenty six, and four of them, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.720 three of them were here. But they've all kind of 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.000 gone back to their lives in various ways. So I'm 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.560 back to being an empty nester. But you know, worried 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.000 about the world, worried about my kids, worried about all 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.240 that stuff. But my day to day life is probably 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:59.080 less affected than the population. And to what degree are 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:04.800 you taking all quarantining? Seriously? Very we we do all 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.480 the steps I don't see. And again, you know, to 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.240 be fair and non political, it's easier for me. You know, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.360 I have a fairly nice set up at home. Um, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.480 I'm used to being at home. I don't really have 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.480 to go out and see people so I'm not a 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.160 very social person, you know. I think all writers are 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.600 a little bit of introverts, and maybe a socially a 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.080 depth introvert, but introvert after all. So I take it 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.960 very seriously. I haven't done anything at all that one 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.200 might call risky. To what degree do you find the 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:40.920 pandemic inspiration for your writing? I would say zero. I 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.440 think it's the opposite. In fact, that was I was 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.000 in the middle of a book when the pandemic hit, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.120 and because you really don't know how the pandemic is 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.240 going to go, and especially back then, I decided instead 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.200 of making I usually did. The book is very contemporary. 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.400 I made it in the year two thousand nineteen, so 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.280 I can make sure I could have boyd the pandemic altogether. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.760 I think at first, certainly, I felt that my job 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:10.240 was to give you a divide diversion from the pandemic, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.520 the shows and the books, to be a diversion from it. 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.440 So right now I don't find it in the least 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.760 bit inspirational, and I think it's hard to write about 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.440 right now except in a very short window because we 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.600 don't know where it's going. You know, I could write 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.160 a book that just took place in the month of 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.320 March or April, but I don't know where we're going 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.760 to be in September, October, and neither is anybody else. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.959 But you're a last bestseller just recently came out Boy 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.560 from the Woods. You do Virgin too. Politics. How did 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.919 you make that decision? Well? Politics, I really tried very 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.920 hard to be as as nonpartistan as possible. Um I 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.920 do as a writer in general, not because you know, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.440 because you're gonna turn this. I don't want people to 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.280 go into my books thinking, oh, he's a right wing cook, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.600 he's a left wing nut, whatever it is. It takes 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.680 away from the story. Um, I try to do it 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.720 in a more subtle way. And the politics here, I 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.480 think we're more about certain extremism than it was, and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.959 about cult type figures that we take on sometimes every side, 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.360 more than I was saying, you know, the right bad, 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.480 left good kind of thing or left bad, right good. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.800 So I just you know, my books are contemporary, so 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.280 I'm dealing with what I'm seeing in public. So for 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.160 The Boy from the Woods, it's whatever's kind of going 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.200 on and run away to what was going on in 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.200 the world of seeing a lot of people doing, for example, 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.320 DNA ancestry websites. I thought that would be good. I'm 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.640 seeing people who are doing with viral videos. I see cults. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.000 I see this sort of political behavior where it's really 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.400 more about tribalism. Um. I think the app thing sometimes 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.760 with the politics is to call like the Yankees and 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.480 the Red Sox. Like, if you're a Yankees fan and 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.360 you find out your manager is a cheat or and 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.840 a horrible person and was killing people, you don't become 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.800 a Red Sox fan, right, You're still going to cheer 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.400 for the Yankees no matter what. And that's where our 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.160 politics has gone. And so I was more exploring I 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.400 think that than you know, tax breaks or whatever else. Well, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.760 the book only came out recently. When did you start 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:20.680 writing the book right about now? I would say last year. 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:25.359 I usually started right about now, which you know we're in, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.000 uh the summer. Usually lately I've been starting it around 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.400 the summertime, and I finished about nine or ten months later, 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.680 and then it comes out a year after that. So 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.760 it would have been uh, two years ago right around 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.560 now I was started the book, and that is a 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.600 traditional lag time in the publishing industry. How do you 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.839 feel about that in today's digital world, certainly someone of 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:52.520 your renown. Well, I've done certain ones where I had 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.120 been tighter um, where I finished one book for example, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.200 I think in July and we had it out in September. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.320 Publishers can turn it around faster, and they claim and 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.680 we see that like the Bolton book, or we'll see 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.040 that with nonfiction book. There really with fiction book they 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.200 can do it too. They don't want to because they 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.440 want to. They take it's better for marketing if they 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.240 have time to make copies and getting people like your hands, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.360 so maybe you'll put it on your podcast or or 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.240 or your newsletters. So they're trying to publicity. They want 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.400 it earlier. They can do it. They can do it faster. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.480 It's not easy in terms of timely. But I hope 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.320 all the novels I write in some way, um, you know, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.640 last more than six months. Anyway, they're not they're not 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.040 fruit on the shelf. So hopefully you know, you can 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.680 still read my books from when I started, and even 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.440 though they may seem dated, they're supposed to be during 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.960 the year, still capture that year. But the spirit and 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.440 the story and things like that that shouldn't really change. 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.960 The technology might change, the politics might change, but the 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:55.600 story shouldn't change. Let's just stay with technology, not the 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.360 content of the book. But what's your viewpoint on digital publishing, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:04.480 the kindle pricing, accessibility. You have a take on that, Well, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.159 this may sound a little bit like a duck, but 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.600 it's not. If we are a business, I am the 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.960 content side of the business, and as a content provider, 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.839 I don't care if you listen to it on audio. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:17.840 I don't care if you digitally do it. I don't 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.400 care if it's paper, I don't care if it's stone tablets. 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.520 My theory is, if my story is good enough, you're 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.279 going to find it and you're going to want to 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.800 listen to it. So I really focus hard on the story. 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.120 It's all I focus on because matter two, I'm not 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.719 smart enough to be able to tell you what's going 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.760 to happen in the book world. And I've heard of 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.840 my whole career. You know, for a while Barnes and 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.560 Noble was going to destroy the industry about taking over 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.760 and boarders is going to destroy the industry. Oh wait, no, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.040 it's Amazon. Amazon is gonna destroy the industry. Oh e books, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.000 E books are gonna put paper out of business, and 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.719 they're all wrong. And if it's I'm like a child 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.120 when I hear that. And I regularly recommend this to 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.640 writers and content producers, creators, whatever you want to call yourself. 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:00.560 I stick my fingers in a year and I got 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.279 la la la la. I can't hear you. All I 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.159 can control is how good my story is. So if 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.359 my story is going to be good enough, you're going 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.560 to find it. So I don't really worry. I don't 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.960 care how you get it. Um, you know, the last 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.560 few years, audio is really exploded. I don't know exactly why, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.640 but the last two or three years, audio has really exploded. Um, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.960 the book had exploded for a while. Now the book 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.520 is actually a little bit on decline, even this last book, Bob, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.680 but you might find really interesting. So my book came 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.640 out March seventeenth, which is the very start, literally the 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.280 start of when we went into quarantine. So I was 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.440 about to go on book tour. I obviously canceled it, 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.360 and all the stores closed, right, all the stores closed, 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.720 And yet my physical book sales were actually up, and 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.400 my e book was up just a little bit a 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.240 little flatter. But my physical books is actually up more 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.320 than my book. I would have thought it would be 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.400 the opposite. Everybody's staying at home. They're gonna get kindles 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.320 or or nooks or whatever. You're gonna audience on order 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.360 it that way. But that wasn't the case. The physical 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.480 book has come back the last few years after getting 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.360 you know, after the book jumped up to have fifty 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.640 or six even of sales. Now if you flattened or 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.040 moved down where the physical book seems to be going up. 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.400 This is anecdotal information, but that's how I I'm seeing it. Well, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.040 the music business been the canary in the coal mine 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.480 for digital disruption, and certainly there's been a big issue 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.720 in books talking about this, which is a what is 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.000 the value of a book? And be that leads to 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.800 the pricing. Have you felt any pressure on your end 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.480 or you're so successful that your deals are independent of 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.440 those constraints. Well, I don't know, you know, I'm not 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.320 so successful. I'm sure like everybody everything else, I'm you know, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.000 price is a factor buying my books or whatever else. Um, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.920 I don't know, you know, it's a very interesting thing. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.840 So people will often say the books should be much 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.959 much cheaper because you're not printing any paper. You don't 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.400 have to do this, you don't have to do that, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.679 and so the books should be much cheaper. But the 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.600 other side of the coin is that twenty years ago, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.160 I told you, where you're standing right now, you can 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.880 press the button and have a book just appeared to 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.240 you right now the second how much would you pay 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.680 for that convenience? And I bet a lot of people 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.360 would have said, well, hell, that's magic. I pay a 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.560 lot for that. So I don't really know. I find 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.199 the book, you know, again, market, I think maybe it 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.640 works here sometimes, you know, I just so. I think 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.120 The Woods, the one that's the new Netflix series, I 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.120 don't know it still is, but for a little while 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.160 it was being priced the e book form for only cents. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.880 So if you're you're savvy shopper, you can find things 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.640 like that. Um So you know, if somebody told me 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.600 I can get it that quickly, that automatically I can 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.600 carry you know, if you have a kindle or nook 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.360 or or don't, you can carry a thousand books, a 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.160 thousand books. What would you pay for that if I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.800 told you that a few years ago. So I'm not 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.880 so sure that it's as simple as you're not made 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.480 using a paper anymore. It should be much cheaper. I 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.000 can't put on my bookshelf afterwards. It should be much cheaper. 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.600 I don't know. Now, going back to your point about 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:11.880 you don't care how people access your work, let me 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:16.920 say if I said a hundred million people in America 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.079 would be reading your book, but you'd make a hundred 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:26.240 thousand dollars, or ten thousand people would read your book 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.840 and you'd make two million dollars. Which choice would you 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.280 make now? I would choose the first. I can't say 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.920 what it before, but right now money is not really 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.520 much of a factor for me. But I'll tell you 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.760 my my, my chicken, my chicken. Ass answer to that is, 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.800 I've never chased the dollar. I've always chased the reader, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.360 the reader's heart, because I've always found the dollar follows anyway, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.240 so they really I've always been one and the same. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.880 I've never made a deal where I tried getting the 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.319 last dollar and not caring. I want readers. Um. If 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.040 that makes me commercial horror, it makes me a commercial horror. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.640 I think every reader does you know the one the too? 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.560 Every writer has this in common. I don't care if 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.960 you're talking to the most commercial writer for the most 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.000 literary writer. Every writer I know wants better reviews and 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.080 wants more readers. And if they don't, they're lying. I'm sorry, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.800 they're lying. If you have if you have a guy 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.160 on here saying I just care about you know, really 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.520 great quality, I don't care if anyone reads it their lyne. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.680 You right to produce, You're you're right to have communication 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.839 with somebody. It's it's the Berkeley tree falling in the woods, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.880 and nobody hears it doesn't make it sound. Um, So 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.800 I do both. I've always said, if the reader or 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.120 the viewer likes what I'm doing, the money is gonna follow. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.480 It's just it's gonna follow. If I go out thinking, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.760 you know what, I could get more money here, but 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.040 less people will see it. I've never made that deal 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.360 in my life, so um, I don't think I would 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.960 do it now. Okay, you're you started before or just 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.400 at the advent of this whole digital craziness in the Internet. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.600 One thing we know in the last ten years is 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.600 there's a lot more clutter. Everybody's vying for attention. Therefore, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.280 no matter who you are, it's harder to spread. First, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.440 there's the issue of reaching your fans, letting them know 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.080 you have new work. Do you feel this at all 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.040 that it is harder. Let's just use the vernacular to 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.880 have virality with your work. Yes, I mean, and first 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.760 of all, everything also is the cycles of life, but 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.280 we know and the media cycles are much shorter, so 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.920 you have a very short window. Book openings have become 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.280 similar to movie openings, where in the old days I 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.720 think you would move up the charts, so to speak, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:42.760 you know, and maybe the same with music. I don't know, 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:44.880 but you start maybe a fift team and move up 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.520 to twelve, up to ten. How is my first New 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.600 York Times bestseller? Now You're opening week is your biggest 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.120 week by far. It's like an opening of a movie. 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.720 So the first week that an author has a new 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.440 book out, if he doesn't hit one, then he's not 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.840 hitting one unless the next week is a real disaster 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.040 for everybody else. You jump on one, then you start 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.880 flipping down, and after a few weeks you know they're 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.760 they're moving on to the next thing. So part of 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.120 it is this whole culture that we see in movies, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.720 we see in music, and we've seen everything where you're 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.959 just not in the news. Um, quite as long. Books 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.960 are always hard to get attention for anyway. Uh. You know, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.240 every once in a while, once or twice a year, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.839 a book seems to get people's attention and and they, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.000 you know, look at it. But for the most part, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.760 it's very very hard. So um, I don't really do 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.440 much different myself. Uh. And I recommend to new writers 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.679 don't don't lose your mind with the marketing. I know 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.400 it's so hard, but I haven't seen maybe you have, Bob, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.920 because you're in a little better at this During this time, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.240 I haven't really seen like a book that's made it 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.720 just on its in fact, that the guy's got a 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.640 great Twitter account or is really funny on instant I 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.320 think it's the opposite almost. I actually think that Instagram 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.520 and my Twitter accounts are negative. A few years ago, 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.400 giving a quick example, I'm friends with Gillian Flynn, who 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.360 of course wrote Gone Girl, which is a huge book. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.400 And I would say that people who would ask me 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.720 this question, and people are always looking for the easy out, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.800 not writing the book, isn't reading that a book. Writing 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.400 on a book isn't easy out. Figuring out that magic 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.480 key that that will get me a lot of readers 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.760 by acute tweet is so I said, well, look, the 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.320 biggest book the last year two has been Gillian Flynn's 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.920 Scout Girls. So look at her Facebook account, look at 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.040 her Twitter, look at her Instagram. See how she's done it. 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.800 She didn't even have one. I think now she hasn't 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.640 a Twitter that she almost never does anything with, but 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.800 she didn't even have when she had zero online presence. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.680 Dan Brown, I think is very little online presence, um. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.160 Grisham just starting up a very little online presence. So 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.160 I don't think that there is much of a correlation 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.800 there for books. And again, that's not TV, that's not movies, 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.440 it's not music. But in terms of books, I don't 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.080 think it's It's not helpful that question how active are 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.640 you on social media and what is your intention with 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.600 social media? Um, I'm actually probably more active than most 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.320 best selling authors. Part of it is, UM, I don't 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.200 mind it. I sometimes kind of enjoy it. I have 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.240 a real love hate relationship with it. UM, and I'm 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.640 dealing with it like everybody else. I don't know how 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.160 I feel about it. One day I think it's the 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.240 worst thing in the world that I gotta stay away 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.560 on the next day. I'm a little bit um addicted 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.640 to it, so I don't. I'm still working out where 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.200 I am on that on that spectrum. Um. You know, 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.480 I have a Twitter, I have a Facebook, I have 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.000 an Instagram. I do very little on the Facebook other 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.800 than the mostly it's marketing kind of stuff. Twitter and Instagram. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.480 I feel like you have to open up a little 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.080 bit more. It's just not fair necessarily. I think people 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.200 get bored if I'm just putting up pictures of my 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.520 books or my TV shows, So you have to be 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.280 a little bit. I'd do a dog a lot, because 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.760 no one gets upset about the dope anything. Political people 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.840 seem to get upset about on one side or the other. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.840 Now we live in a world where everybody is accessible. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.440 That does not necessarily mean you need to respond. Do 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:11.080 you interact with people? I sometimes don't. I always regret it, 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.760 always regret it. I did actually yesterday with somebody and 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.800 I just was after you know, a friend of mine, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.040 Richard Osmond from England, had tweeted this brilliant thing about 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.080 don't give the idiots, don't respond to the idiots, that's 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.400 all that gives them air, and I did. I responded 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.480 to an idiot, and I gave him a hair and 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.720 then I was like, okay. Now I also block if 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.000 someone will come on, for example and say, uh, someone 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.320 did you well, you know, why did you make the 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.400 woods in Polish? I hate foreign language things. This is 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.920 a piece of ship. I just blocked. I didn't followed 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:42.960 with it. He's on. He probably is a fan of 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.440 my books. He's been following me a long time, and 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.920 you know, and then of course you get the rep of, oh, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.000 you can't listen to criticism. I don't have to listen 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.720 to criticism. I don't want to. It's my page. But 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.400 when people are rude like that, now I just now 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.560 I'm trying to reach a state dry, just blocking and 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.440 move on. What I always say is temper center. The 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.080 public is certifiably insane. The only problem is you don't 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.320 know what ten percent that is. People who seem totally 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.000 reasonable end up like you can't get rid of him, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.119 and it's crazy. The other thing is, even if you 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.280 correct someone on facts, they won't accept it. Well, the 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:21.160 sky is black today, No it's blue. No, you're wrong, blah. Yes, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.240 I retweeted some a friend of mine. I put something 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.280 about the Confederate statues, and you know the difference being 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.320 the Confederate statues were to honor these people. You know, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.320 people keep saying, oh, how can you leave up concentration cancer, 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.520 which is such a disingenuous false equivalency. So the person 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.600 put it and I retweeted it, and somebody says, I 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.479 didn't think you'd want to upset all of your you know, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.040 your right wing readers or your Republican rea years ago. 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.560 Tell me what that tweet you don't get? I mean, 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.960 tell me what that sweet you disagree with? Do you 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.440 think that the Confederacy and the Holocaust sent No, I'm 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.880 my relatives in the Holocaust, Like, so, what's your problem 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.879 with the actual thing? And then they go off on 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.920 some tangent. You know, it's like they they so there's 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.320 no point in doing it because it doesn't matter. You 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.760 can't win the argument, you know. So I agree, I 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.080 agree totally. But just staying with that one concept, to 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.320 what degree in your books and your interactions, are you 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.960 worried about alienating potential fans potential readers. Um, I don't 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:25.240 real about alienating potential readers or yes, on internet, on 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.240 social media, do worry about that? In books? I don't 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.359 in books. As I said before, I intentionally don't potentially 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.960 take sides also that I don't necessarily agree with because 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.600 part of being a writer, big part of it, One 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.399 thing I hope we all have is you have to 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.320 be empathetic, not sympathetic, and not necessarily in a positive way. 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.919 But I have to get how that person thinks. And 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.680 I have to create created characters, especially in the villains, um, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.600 where you should be able to understand them. In fact, 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.200 one of the things I joke is I've been working 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.480 much too hard on my villains over the last few years. 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.240 I realized villains don't have to be all that complex 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.200 or interesting or sympathetic. They could just be complete monsters 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.800 that's we're seeing every day. Um. But I want to 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.600 do that. So UM, I've argued for a lot of 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.440 stuff convincingly, I've taken it. In one book, I took 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.400 a pro hunting side that I thought was really kind 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.439 of fun. So but that's part of the job, is 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.000 you you know you, I'm not. I'm not really here 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.320 to teach you or moralize that. That kills a book, 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.520 and may they may be lessons in it, But if 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.000 you said that, to do that you're right, and you're 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.680 gonna kill yourself. You're gonna really quick kill your book. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.000 Going back to marketing, you were mentioning that your book 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:45.120 tour was canceled from someone on the West Coast music 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:50.840 movie entertainment spectrum. It really looks like bookmarking is antiquated. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.800 So I must ask when you do these road shows, 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.960 do they have any impact? In my view? No, I 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.800 think there are waste of time. I've told my publishers, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.320 so I tried cutting them down. Um some years they 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.920 left me. Some years they don't. There's I think there's 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.760 a couple of things that they do. Um one is 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.760 and this is why I personally am not that opposed 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.679 to doing them. And I you know, part of it. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.080 You know, you're part of the team and you have 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.480 to do that. But I do think it helps the 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.560 independent bookstores. I do think if I can go to 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.919 your store and you can sell four hundred copies of 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.520 a hard covered that cost bucks, that's a big day 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.280 for you as an independent bookstore. That gets people in 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.359 your stores, that gets people interested in reading that. You know, 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.440 it's a way of introducing other authors to people. UM 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.280 So part of it, I think a lot part of 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.359 when when your author, you know, is already selling well, 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.760