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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever

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Speaker 1: you are in the world, you know the deal. It

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Speaker 1: is so great to have you here. Back for another

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Speaker 1: episode as we, of course break down the psychology of

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Speaker 1: our twenties. Today, we are talking about a word. We

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Speaker 1: are talking about a topic, a concept that carries a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of weight, but is also used pretty flippantly

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Speaker 1: in conversation and is very misunderstood. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: trauma specifically.

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Speaker 2: I really want to.

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Speaker 3: Talk about how trauma is not just emotional, not just

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Speaker 3: psychological or cognitive, but physical as well. This is something

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Speaker 3: that in my own personal life, I've been doing a

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Speaker 3: lot of deep research, deep knowledge searching on trying to

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Speaker 3: find the best resources, trying to find personal experiences, trying

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Speaker 3: to find the best books about how trauma is essentially

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Speaker 3: trapped in the body. Long story short, I feel like

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Speaker 3: I've had a lot of realizations about the kind of

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Speaker 3: rage and anger that I carry in my body, about

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Speaker 3: the kind of irritation that I'm constantly carrying around, the detension,

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Speaker 3: all of these reactions that I have to certain situations

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Speaker 3: that I literally have no idea where it came from.

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Speaker 3: I've just kind of always been frustrated by until I

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Speaker 3: started to really sit with past experiences and sit with

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Speaker 3: trauma and just appreciate how you know, it's not just psychological,

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Speaker 3: it's not just in my mind. It's not just something

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Speaker 3: that happened to me, but it has had like real

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Speaker 3: long term behavioral and physical I don't want to say consequences,

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Speaker 3: but implications, And it just felt like the appropriate time

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Speaker 3: to kind of take all that knowledge and that research

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Speaker 3: that I've been doing and put it into an episode

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Speaker 3: so that hopefully it's helpful for some of you guys

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Speaker 3: out there, those of you who are in their twenties

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Speaker 3: like me, who are maybe figuring this out for the

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Speaker 3: first time, or even if you are older. Now I

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Speaker 3: know that the word trauma it can feel really big.

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Speaker 3: It can feel very clinical, very intense. You know, for

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Speaker 3: a long time I didn't think that it applied to me.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't survived a war, I hadn't lived through some

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Speaker 3: giant film screen worthy event. You know, my childhood was

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Speaker 3: pretty normal. But this term and this concept means a

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Speaker 3: lot more than I think we have been taught it means,

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Speaker 3: and it is a lot less limited than previous definitions

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Speaker 3: or previous understandings of this experience would make us believe.

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Speaker 3: It's one of those terms that we hear a lot,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like a lot of us still don't

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Speaker 3: think that it applies to us. We have to have

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Speaker 3: lived through something really obvious and something very obviously painful

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Speaker 3: at the time to be part of this group or

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Speaker 3: part of this category of humans who have experienced trauma.

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Speaker 3: I think also we tend to sometimes judge the pain

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Speaker 3: of a past experience by the symptoms that we have

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Speaker 3: now or how much that pain is carried forward. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, if we're not having a seemingly big reaction

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Speaker 3: to something that's happened in the past, well then that

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Speaker 3: experience mustn't have been as traumatic as we thought it was.

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Speaker 3: But the thing with realizing how trauma is stored in

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Speaker 3: the body is you also start to realize how almost

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Speaker 3: unconscious and invisible a trauma response or the long term

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Speaker 3: impacts of trauma actually are because we often think about

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Speaker 3: it purely. Is this like emotional response, but it is deeply,

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Speaker 3: deeply physical. It shows up intention It shows up in

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Speaker 3: chronic pain, It shows up in fatigue, It shows up

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Speaker 3: in these like immediate behavioral reactions that we have no

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Speaker 3: control over, you know, crying when someone raises their voice,

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Speaker 3: even if like they're not actually angry. Trauma is stored

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Speaker 3: in your nervous system. It's stored in your gut reaction.

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Speaker 3: It's stored in how you breathe. You know. It's the

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Speaker 3: famous book your body keeps the score even when your

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Speaker 3: brain tries to move on. So in this episode, I

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Speaker 3: really want to talk about what trauma really is, what

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Speaker 3: happens within us when we experience traumatic, something traumatic, even

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Speaker 3: if we don't acknowledge or know that it was traumatic

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Speaker 3: at the time, and how we kind of get stuck

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Speaker 3: in a chronic arousal or chronic stress mode that.

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Speaker 2: We don't even realize.

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Speaker 3: I also want to talk about how small moments in

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Speaker 3: the past really shape our sense of safety, our identity,

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Speaker 3: our sense of connection, how we relate to other people

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Speaker 3: as well, in again ways that are often quite invisible

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Speaker 3: and not acknowledged. I'm going to say this episode is

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Speaker 3: not going to try and pathologize every single experience that

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Speaker 3: you've had, and it's not going to say that if

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Speaker 3: you have trauma, that's it, it will always be there,

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Speaker 3: this is who you are. Instead, I just hope you

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Speaker 3: understand yourself and your body better through this discussion and

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Speaker 3: what it may be holding and storing for you, what

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Speaker 3: it may be hiding, so that you continue to feel

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Speaker 3: like you are strong and that you are capable enough.

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Speaker 3: I think this episode is really about acknowledging that you

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Speaker 3: can be soft, and you can be gentle, and you

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Speaker 3: can be vulnerable. And that doesn't mean that the trauma

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Speaker 3: has won. It's meant that actually you have and you've

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Speaker 3: acknowledged its impact on you. So of thoughts, a lot

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Speaker 3: to unpack here, a lot of science, a lot of

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Speaker 3: research that I have been searching through and digging through

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Speaker 3: for many, many months, maybe even years of stage. So

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Speaker 3: we're going to take a deep breath and we're going

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Speaker 3: to get into exploring exactly how trauma is trapped in

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Speaker 3: the body. Stay with us. So before we get into

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Speaker 3: how trauma gets trapped in our bodies, we need to

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Speaker 3: talk about what trauma really means, which is actually kind

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Speaker 3: of tricky because by its very nature, trauma actually means

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Speaker 3: very different things for very different people, and it's very

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Speaker 3: hard to categorize. But psychologists have given it a go.

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Speaker 3: Researchers have given it a go, and there are a

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Speaker 3: couple of ways that they see or I hate to

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Speaker 3: say it, but rank trauma. Firstly, the big type of

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Speaker 3: trauma we often think of is a large, significant, one

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Speaker 3: time life threatening event like a natural disaster, a car accident,

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Speaker 3: near death experience. This is what we call type one trauma.

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Speaker 3: These moments, they just flip life on its head. They

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Speaker 3: are unexpected, they come out of nowhere, and the reason

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Speaker 3: they are so traumatic is because they make us realize

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Speaker 3: how inherently unsafe we are as humans, how vulnerable we are,

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Speaker 3: and they cause us to really have to rethink our

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Speaker 3: lives and also rethink how we can return to a

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Speaker 3: point where we feel safe and stable, which is very

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Speaker 3: hard for people. These moments, I think, are very clearly

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Speaker 3: traumatic in the eyes of many people, in the eyes

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Speaker 3: of society, they are not the only trauma that occurs.

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Speaker 3: Smaller repeated traumatic events over time or prolonged exposure to

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Speaker 3: traumatic situations are another type of trauma. We call type

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Speaker 3: two trauma. Type true trauma includes things like having maybe

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Speaker 3: a violent childhood home or experiencing domestic violence, but even

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Speaker 3: things racism, discrimination, sexism, workplace harassment, chronic health conditions, all

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Speaker 3: things that over time reduce our sense of safety and

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Speaker 3: make us feel like we are not in control of

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Speaker 3: our life, or our environment or our surroundings. You know,

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Speaker 3: I've got to say in twenty nineteen, I don't think

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Speaker 3: I've ever talked about this on the podcast before, but

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Speaker 3: I survived the Australian bushfires in an evacuation zone and

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Speaker 3: I genuinely thought the house was going to burn down.

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Speaker 3: I could not call my family. I was absolutely terrified.

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Speaker 3: I remember driving through like an active bushfire zone, the

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Speaker 3: smell of smoke being like everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It was so loud.

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Speaker 3: That was traumatic, But it was not as traumatic to

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Speaker 3: me as when my boss at the restaurant I worked

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Speaker 3: at in the same year was intimidating me and harassing me,

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Speaker 3: even if from the outside. You know, those bushfires are

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Speaker 3: the thing that people remember to me, Like when I

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Speaker 3: look back at my life and I'm like, oh, what

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Speaker 3: has really like left a scar? It's not that it's

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Speaker 3: this smaller repeated situation that made me feel a lot

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Speaker 3: more unsafe day to day than the big natural.

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Speaker 2: Disaster that I live through.

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Speaker 3: The focus on trauma, what I'm trying to say here

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Speaker 3: is that it's less on the magnitude of the event

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Speaker 3: itself and more on our own personal response to it,

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Speaker 3: and that's often influenced by things like previous experiences, previous

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Speaker 3: personal experiences, upbringing, even like our DNA and how stress

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Speaker 3: is encoded into our DNA.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the.

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Speaker 3: Time, I think we tend to dismiss our own trauma

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Speaker 3: because it's not big and bad enough compared to what

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Speaker 3: others have gone through. It feels like there is this

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Speaker 3: ladder almost or this like pyramid of how we rank trauma,

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Speaker 3: and if we're not at the top of the pyramid

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Speaker 3: experiencing the very worst of what humanity in life can

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Speaker 3: throw at us, then we don't don't belong in the

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Speaker 3: category of someone who has trauma. And here's the thing

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Speaker 3: I always say to this. Someone can have a broken

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Speaker 3: leg and you can have a broken arm, and your

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Speaker 3: broken arm is still going to hurt. Like, just because

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Speaker 3: someone has more pain than you doesn't mean that your

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Speaker 3: pain isn't being subjectively experienced as painful. Someone could have

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Speaker 3: more trauma than you. It doesn't mean that the trauma

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Speaker 3: you're experiencing isn't just as awful. Like it's this weird

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Speaker 3: thing where our bodies and our minds can continue to

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Speaker 3: adapt to really really terrible, terrible things and our pain

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Speaker 3: threshold or our trauma threshold gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that the threshold that you had when

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Speaker 3: you experience your trauma wasn't already at a point where

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Speaker 3: pain was going to be experienced. I feel like that's

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Speaker 3: a really complicated way of explaining it, But hopefully what

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Speaker 3: I mean and what you interpret from that is that

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Speaker 3: this is an entirely subjective experience. What constitutes a traumatic

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Speaker 3: event for one person may not for another, depending on

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Speaker 3: their individual biology, their psychological resilience, their support system. You know,

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Speaker 3: you could be in a car accident. You could walk

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Speaker 3: away and be completely unfazed, but someone else might not

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Speaker 3: be able to ever get back in a car, you know,

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Speaker 3: as compared to you know, someone maybe in a situation

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Speaker 3: they see as life threatening, another person wouldn't see it

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Speaker 3: as life threatening. Whose definition of life threatening do we

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Speaker 3: therefore follow? And also sometimes something doesn't need to have

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Speaker 3: threatened your physical safety to be traumatic, you know, is

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Speaker 3: the case with vicarious trauma. A person working in an

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Speaker 3: emergency department could be entirely safe from actual danger themselves,

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Speaker 3: but still leave that workplace five years later deeply traumatized.

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Speaker 3: The point is, if we're looking for some kind of

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Speaker 3: yardstick or questionnaire as to whether a situation was traumatic,

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Speaker 3: and whether you're looking for a questionnaire or a yardstick

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Speaker 3: that is universal and will apply to everyone, we aren't

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Speaker 3: going to find one. And yes, that may mean that

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Speaker 3: some people may call something traumatic that you wouldn't, but

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Speaker 3: I would much rather even the smallest things be labeled

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Speaker 3: as traumatic and be treated with grace and gentleness and care.

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Speaker 3: Then one person not receive the acknowledgment they need for

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Speaker 3: their trauma because they think it's too small to count.

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Speaker 3: People can disagree with me on this and say, well,

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Speaker 3: that invalidates people who were actually traumatized and who have

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Speaker 3: actually lived through terrible things, to which I always say,

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Speaker 3: who is determining what actually means? And secondly, we're focusing

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Speaker 3: on the wrong thing. Why are we focusing on excluding

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Speaker 3: people from the trauma definition when we should be focused

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Speaker 3: on reducing shame for all people, expanding resources, expanding how

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Speaker 3: we collectively think of trauma as a systemic issue and

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Speaker 3: as a community issue where we need to support each

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Speaker 3: other and you know, hold each other accountable to not

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Speaker 3: harm other people. Like I think we're focusing on the

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Speaker 3: wrong thing when we're trying to get people to jump

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Speaker 3: over a certain hurdle to be considered to be considered

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Speaker 3: as traumatized. It's also important to note as well that

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Speaker 3: often the signs of trauma don't immediately show themselves, the

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Speaker 3: same way that a bruise doesn't immediately appear on the

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Speaker 3: skin after you've experienced like a blunt force trauma injury.

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Speaker 3: This is known as delayed trauma on set, and it's

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Speaker 3: a lot more common than we think, especially with childhood trauma,

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Speaker 3: because our trauma response is often delayed by the fact

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Speaker 3: that we may not have the cognitive abilities to process

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Speaker 3: what happened or the words to explain what happened until

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Speaker 3: our brain catches.

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Speaker 2: Up later on.

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Speaker 3: Also, a lot of time, a lot of times, people

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Speaker 3: are experiencing traumatic things, and the only way they can

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Speaker 3: get through that traumatic experience is to completely dissociate from

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Speaker 3: the fact that it is happening to them. So it's

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Speaker 3: only once they feel a maybe minor or general sense

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Speaker 3: of psychological safety or environmental safety and they are out

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Speaker 3: of that situation that they are able to appreciate.

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Speaker 4: Like, hey, that was really messed up, Like that really.

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Speaker 3: Shouldn't have happened to me. Happens a lot of times

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Speaker 3: with relationships, or a lot of times again with childhood,

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Speaker 3: where you are living under your parents' ruth, you are

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Speaker 3: living in a house. You do not have the independence

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Speaker 3: and the agency to escape that situation when you're a child,

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Speaker 3: so you just have to really like bury deep into

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Speaker 3: whatever coping mechanism you may have available to one of

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Speaker 3: those being a complete dismissal of your circumstances. A twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty paper out of Australia actually found that a lot

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Speaker 3: of people have this experience.

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Speaker 2: A lot of.

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Speaker 3: People report this delayed trauma onset and they also say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, the signs that they've been through something really

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Speaker 3: difficult only became more noticeable at a certain stage or

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Speaker 3: phase in their life. You know, they didn't realize how

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Speaker 3: their childhood impacted them until they got into their first

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Speaker 3: serious adult relationship and suddenly it was like wow, I

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Speaker 3: am a deeply wounded human being. You know, you don't

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Speaker 3: realize how much the death of your parent impacted you

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Speaker 3: until your family pet dies. You don't process how much

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Speaker 3: the bullying you experienced as a child really sat with

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Speaker 3: you until you know you're in your thirties and you

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Speaker 3: weren't invited on like the bachelorette trip, and suddenly you're

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Speaker 3: thirteen again, and all that anxiety and all that social

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Speaker 3: claustrophobia and all that fomo is back. But potentially one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest ways trauma starts to show up for

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Speaker 3: us later on in life or even immediately after a

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Speaker 3: traumatic event. And the whole theme of today's episode is

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Speaker 3: that it begins to show up physically through the body. Basically,

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Speaker 3: you suppress all of this stuff emotionally and psychologically, and

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Speaker 3: the only outlet has is physically, and so it starts

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Speaker 3: to kind of like trickle out through tension, through fatigue,

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Speaker 3: through pain. This is the sematic impact of trauma, the

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Speaker 3: sematic response to trauma.

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Speaker 2: And of course we.

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Speaker 3: Cannot talk about this without firstly acknowledging the book that

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Speaker 3: really put this on the map, which is the Body

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Speaker 3: keeps the Score, very very famous I think it has.

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Speaker 3: I think it's sold like three million copies worldwide. It

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Speaker 3: was written by a very famous Dutch psychiatrist, doctor Bessel

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Speaker 3: van der Kolk. Hopefully I pronounce that I don't speak Dutch,

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Speaker 3: but I think that's right. I think it's been on

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Speaker 3: the New York Times bestseller list for like six years.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: Everyone knows this book. You have seen it before.

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Speaker 3: It's safe to say this has just like completely changed

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Speaker 3: how we think about trauma. The core premise of this

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Speaker 3: book is that trauma isn't just this story we tell

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Speaker 3: in our minds. It's not just memories. It's actually stored

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Speaker 3: in our bodies. When we experience something traumatic, our brain

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Speaker 3: and our nervous system are significantly impacted in a way

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Speaker 3: that can leave us physically stuck in the past. Because

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Speaker 3: our mind and our body, like their relationship, cannot be disentangled.

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Speaker 3: Something happens that shakes us mentally and emotionally that doesn't

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Speaker 3: happen in isolation. Our body is also wrapped up in

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Speaker 3: this Prior to this book coming out, the clinical conversation

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Speaker 3: and the general social conversation around trauma often centered on

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Speaker 3: the cognitive side of things and on cognitive behavioral therapy,

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Speaker 3: which really placed an importance on the idea of changing

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Speaker 3: thought patterns in order to change feelings, and it doesn't

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Speaker 3: so much acknowledge the body is part of this and

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Speaker 3: this work, this book really shifted the paradigm from the

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Speaker 3: idea that trauma is something purely cognitive to the notion

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Speaker 3: of this mind body link. The brilliance of this book

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Speaker 3: is that it gave people the language to understand things

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Speaker 3: that perhaps a doctor had never given them, the words

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Speaker 3: to understand things that the medical community or more traditional

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Speaker 3: medical community, had never been able to explain for them.

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Speaker 3: Their chronic pain, the way their body was responding to

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Speaker 3: certain environmental cues, their stomach issues, their nausea, they're like fatigue.

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Speaker 3: None of this was random, none of this was an accident.

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Speaker 3: So it's definitely safe to say that the body keeps

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Speaker 3: the score has been very important in this discussion. But

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Speaker 3: there have been a few criticisms, which is why I

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Speaker 3: talk about this book, but I always talk about it

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Speaker 3: kind of with like, kind of with a little bit

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Speaker 3: of like skepticism. It definitely got some things not wrong,

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Speaker 3: but maybe a little bit misconstrued. You know. There was

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Speaker 3: an editorial published in twenty twenty three in the Research

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Speaker 3: on Social work Practice that highlighted that for many people

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Speaker 3: with PTSD, the body keeps the score is deeply revealing

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Speaker 3: for them, but it doesn't always give them accurate recommendations

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Speaker 3: about where to go from there, and it often when

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Speaker 3: it does, it introduces people to these very like intense

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Speaker 3: themes and very intense ideas and then makes it seem

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Speaker 3: like you can kind of diyatt that you can diy

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Speaker 3: some of the therapy therapeutic techniques that are introduced in

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Speaker 3: this book, and that's not the case, Like this stuff

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Speaker 3: needs to be performed or introduced through a trained practitioner,

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Speaker 3: and we don't want people to, you know, read this book,

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Speaker 3: or what this article says is they don't want people

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Speaker 3: to read this book and then think that somatic techniques

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Speaker 3: are the only thing that's going to help them. It's

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Speaker 3: often a lot more complex. Another article I read on

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Speaker 3: the site mother Jones, it also suggested that this book

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Speaker 3: really stigmatizes survivors and it blames victims by making the

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Speaker 3: trauma an individual issue, not considering the fact that there

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Speaker 3: are these huge social and political systems that are actually responsible.

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Speaker 3: Instead of looking at the social context. For example, things

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00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 3: like systemic racism or poverty, or structural violence or deep misogyny,

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Speaker 3: and how the shape trauma. The book really focuses on

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Speaker 3: how you as an individual can heal through somatic practices

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Speaker 3: and throughout the book. If you've read it, this may

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Speaker 3: have given you the ick as well. But the author portrays,

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Speaker 3: you know, survivors as self sabotaging, as not willing to

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Speaker 3: take responsibility for their trauma, without actually acknowledging the fact

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Speaker 3: that can they really take accountability for their trauma when

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Speaker 3: it was caused by a system and a context that

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Speaker 3: hasn't taken accountability itself and that continues to retraumatize them

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Speaker 3: and continues to keep them down. What this has the

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Speaker 3: danger of implying is that it is your personal responsibility

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Speaker 3: to deal with trauma, to heal from trauma, and to

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Speaker 3: do that alone. And if you aren't able to do that,

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Speaker 3: that is a personal failing, and that means that you

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Speaker 3: weren't discipline enough, you didn't try hard enough, you were

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Speaker 3: self sabotaging. When that is just like seriously not the

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Speaker 3: case and also seriously unhelpful, because you know, trauma takes

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Speaker 3: a long time to overcome. Some people never overcome it.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just something you live with. But if you

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Speaker 3: were in those early stages and you're feeling like nothing

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Speaker 3: is working and you're reading this book, that's like, if

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Speaker 3: you can't manage this, then you're not trying hard enough

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Speaker 3: or you're not taking enough responsibility. It's like, well, that's

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Speaker 3: going to be deeply discouraging. So I just think that

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Speaker 3: that is something that people should really understand when reading

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Speaker 3: this work. I know it is a huge introduction to

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Speaker 3: this idea of how trauma is trapped in the body.

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Speaker 3: But there are also amazing other works and other books

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Speaker 3: that you can read on this. Trauma and Recovery by

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Speaker 3: Judith Hermann is a great one. The book by Stephanie

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00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 3: Fu My Bones Know also amazing. If you get a lot,

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Speaker 3: if you've got a lot out of The Body Keeps

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Speaker 3: the Score and want to expand your knowledge, or you

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00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 3: haven't read that book yet, those are some other really

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Speaker 3: amazing entry points to this discussion.

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Speaker 4: So The Body Keeps.

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Speaker 3: The Score an amazing introduction to this concept. It is like,

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Speaker 3: it's done amazing work in terms of introducing people to

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Speaker 3: this like mind body relationship that we all have. But

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Speaker 3: I want to kind of go a little bit further

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Speaker 3: and explaining why exactly that is the case and how

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Speaker 3: to manage it, perhaps in a more collective.

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Speaker 2: Space as well.

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Speaker 3: So we are going to take a short break here,

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Speaker 3: but when we return, I want to talk about the

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Speaker 3: exact biological, psychological, neurological mechanisms behind how trauma gets trapped

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Speaker 3: in the body, and also how we can start to

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00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: release some of that tension and some of those physical

386
00:22:51,880 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: effects stay with us. So we know that trauma has

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Speaker 3: felt in the body, we know that it's stored there.

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Speaker 3: How exactly does that happen? How is this the case?

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Speaker 3: Like what is actually happening in our cells, in our muscles,

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Speaker 3: in our stomach lining that makes this occur. The first

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Speaker 3: way we need to understand this, and the first theory

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Speaker 3: we need to understand this through, is something called polyvagal theory.

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Speaker 3: It was developed by the American psychologist Stefan Porgus, and

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Speaker 3: it is like the dominant theory explaining how exactly this

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Speaker 3: comes to be, and the way that we can picture

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Speaker 3: it is by imagining a ladder, or even better, I

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Speaker 3: want you to imagine one of those games that they

398
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 3: used to have at old carnivales or fairs where you

399
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 3: would get the hammer and you would hit it on

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00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: like some sensor and this like little thing would fling

401
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: up and you would hit different parts of if you

402
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like you would hit different parts

403
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Speaker 3: like that would tell you how strong you were. I'm

404
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: hoping that you're getting what I'm saying. For some reason,

405
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: I cannot give any more words as to how to

406
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: explain this imagining. It is a ladder, imagining it as

407
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Speaker 3: this carnival toy thing, if you know what I'm talking about.

408
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 3: But at the bottom of this ladder, at the very base,

409
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 3: we have what we call the ventral vaguel state. This

410
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 3: is a state of your nervous system where you are

411
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: deeply regulated. You're content, you're calm, you're grounded, you're connected,

412
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: You're present with your environment, You're present with the people

413
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 3: around you. You're able to respond and you know, be

414
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: kind of at peace, like you're just kind of existing.

415
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: That is the bottom of the ladder. That is where

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Speaker 3: we want to spend most of our time. Above that,

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Speaker 3: on the ladder, we have the sympathetic state. Now you

418
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Speaker 3: may know the sympathetic state from the fight or flight response.

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Speaker 3: This is where we experience a sense of tension. It's

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Speaker 3: where all of our like vible mechanisms are kicking into gear.

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Speaker 3: We may be afraid, we may feel threatened, we are scared.

422
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 3: During a traumatic event, our brain's threat detection system goes

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Speaker 3: into overdrive and pushes us into this state. Adrenaline, cortisol.

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00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: They're flooding our system and our body is prepared to

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00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 3: receive and respond to whatever danger or threat it has

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00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: already kind of recognized.

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Speaker 2: In this state.

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Speaker 3: This is like where you are having an intense stress response.

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Speaker 3: That's not the top of the ladder, though. At the

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Speaker 3: top of the ladder you have the dors or vaguel

431
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Speaker 3: state where the body it just stops fighting, just completely

432
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: shuts down. You feel like you can't fight back. The

433
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 3: situation you are facing is so awful that you are trapped,

434
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 3: You're helpless. This is where you really feel like your

435
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: life is threatened, your sense of safety is threatened, and

436
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 3: unlike during the sympathetic state, there's nothing you can do

437
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: about it. Healthy nervous system will rarely encounter the dorsal

438
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: vagel state, if not hopefully ever, and instead it typically

439
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: jumps between the sympathetic state and the ventral vagal state,

440
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 3: but it spends most of its time in the ventral

441
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: veagl state. It responds to stresses appropriately, then it returns

442
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: to that regulated baseline. But someone who has experienced a

443
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 3: deep trauma, they have gone all the way up the ladder.

444
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: Think of it like a door has been opened, like

445
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: a whole new level is unlocked. The brain now it

446
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 3: can't forget that that new level, that new level of

447
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: deep stress and just deep hopelessness, is there. It can't

448
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 3: forget what it felt like to just be in a

449
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: state of complete overwhelm, and it most certainly does not

450
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: want to go back there, and yet it often ends

451
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 3: up going back there by being retriggered through memories, through

452
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: environmental queue, through any number of triggers. It starts to

453
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 3: respond to minor things by swinging the stress state all

454
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: the way up to the highest notch, because it believes

455
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 3: that that is what we have to do in order

456
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: to survive the process. The stress process, the nervous system process,

457
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 3: has now become dysregulated. And you will hear that word

458
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: a lot when we talk about trauma and and how

459
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: it relates to the body. The intense kind of energy

460
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 3: caused by the stressful event, it basically gets us stuck

461
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: or trapped in that highest gear, and what we've experienced

462
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: is not processed, it's not released, it's held. It's held

463
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: there waiting for a signal of safety that often never comes.

464
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 3: And so what you might find is that you're either

465
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: in a state of constant arousal, a state of constant

466
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: stress and hypervigilance, or you're in a state of complete

467
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: numbness or emotional shutdown, both of those estates that we

468
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 3: do not want to be and we want to be relaxed,

469
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 3: we want to feel alert, we want to feel content.

470
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: But the vaguest nerve here, it is the key player.

471
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: It is really what is trapping all of these experiences

472
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 3: in like the deep nerves and the deep cells and

473
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 3: the deep responses of our body, this chronic state of dysregulation.

474
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: It doesn't just stay in our vague nerve. It doesn't

475
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: just stay in our mind. The vague nerve is the longest,

476
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: biggest nerve in the whole body. It stretches almost the

477
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: length of your body, and it's kind of like the

478
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: highway through which all information is sent out. Now, imagine

479
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: if that highway like is blown up. Imagine if that

480
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: highway is flooded, is swept away, is like something chaotic

481
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: happens to that highway. If you want to get to

482
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: anywhere else in the body, and you can't take that highway,

483
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 3: and you can't take you have to take back roads

484
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: or there's no road available. Connections or messages sent from

485
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: the brain to the rest of the body, to your limbs,

486
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: to your stomach, to the muscles in your arms, they're

487
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: kind of either not getting there, or when the message

488
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: does get there, it's a bit scrambled and it's been

489
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: a little bit shaken up, and it's not the same

490
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: message that was initially sent out. This chronic state of dysregulation,

491
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: this is why we experience those physical symptoms that we

492
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: acknowledge now our physical responses or the physical manifestations of trauma.

493
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: It's why we get that muscle tension, the digestive issues,

494
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: the chronic pain, the headaches, the jaw clenching, the unexplained

495
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 3: autoimmune conditions, because our body is still in that state

496
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: of hyper or hypo arousal. And also it just can't

497
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 3: regulate every single system that's going on because it still

498
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: feels like it is in that really heightened stress response

499
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: and it is in that state of just complete helplessness,

500
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: where there's no point focusing on digestion, there's no point

501
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: focusing on our immune system, there's no point focusing on

502
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 3: fighting off illness, there's no point in focusing on relaxing

503
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: our muscles or feeling you know, stable, because it still

504
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 3: feels like it's not going to survive. It still feels

505
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: like there is this terrible thing that is happening to it.

506
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: So let's talk about the pain component of this, and

507
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 3: the fact that a lot of people who experienced trauma

508
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: end up with chronic pain conditions. There is a very

509
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: famous study. I don't know if it's famous, definitely, I

510
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: hope it becomes more well known, but it's a study

511
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: that essentially found that in groups of participants who were

512
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: experiencing chronic pain, the level of PTSD within those groups

513
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: was significantly higher than in the general population. Up to

514
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: eighty percent of people who reported chronic pain who came

515
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: to their GP their doctor for chronic pain had a

516
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: previous personal history of PTSD or something that was deeply

517
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: traumatic happening to them.

518
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: Now.

519
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: It wasn't just the kind of it wasn't just physical trauma,

520
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: so it wasn't like, Oh, I have chronic pain because

521
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: I was in a car accident, or I have chronic

522
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: pain because.

523
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 4: I was I fell out of a plane. A lot

524
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: of these.

525
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: People had deeply interpersonal an emotional trauma that left no

526
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: physical stars but was obviously leaving real physical pain. A

527
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen study published in the Canadian Journal of Pain

528
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: Management looked into the physical symptoms of PTSD in one

529
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty six participants, and what they found was

530
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: that almost half of the sample actually experienced pain for

531
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: lashbacks associated with memories of past events and trauma. So

532
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: when they relived a past moment of trauma, they could

533
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: tell you where they felt pain in the body, and

534
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: they would say, oh, I can feel this here, and

535
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: I can feel this triggering something in me, and it

536
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: is very very intense for me. These are results, you know,

537
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: you just you can't ignore those results, especially as they

538
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: continue to be replicated time and time again across countries,

539
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: across population groups, across ages, across The type of trauma

540
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: that people have experienced, like this level of pain or

541
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: of physical discomfort is really an epidemic. So if trauma

542
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: is so clearly and vividly present in the body, why

543
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: are these very real symptoms and experiences often ignored, misdiagnosed,

544
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: or just in general dismissed by society. I think it

545
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: comes down to the fact that for a long time,

546
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 3: the medical community approached health issues with a sense of

547
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: mind body duality. So basically the idea that the mind

548
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: and the body they are two separate things, two separate entities.

549
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: If a physical symptom couldn't be explained by a clear

550
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 3: organic cause, like a gaping hole in your arm, a

551
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: broken bone, something of the sort, it was often dismissed

552
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: as being in your head.

553
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: But with the.

554
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: Scientific access we now have, neuroscience has really debunked this

555
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: idea and it's provided very compelling proof that the pain

556
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: is absolutely, unequivocally like it is.

557
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: It is real.

558
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: Research using fMRI scans have shown that when people recall

559
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: a traumatic event or they are triggered, the brain regions

560
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: that process psychological distress overlap significantly with the brain regions

561
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: that process physical pain. And I want to say this

562
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: pain is not felt in the body. Pain is felt

563
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: like in your mind.

564
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: If people who are.

565
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: Paralyzed like and their nerves and their like their nerves

566
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: below their waist or below wherever they don't work, and

567
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 3: someone stabs them in the foot, someone drops a cinder

568
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: block on their foot, They're not going to feel it

569
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: because there's no like that message isn't being sent to

570
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 3: the brain. The brain is the home of pain, and

571
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: so these fMRI studies are like so revealing that essentially

572
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: all these receptors that we usually associate with physical pain

573
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: are also being triggered by emotional experiences as well. Like

574
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 3: the brain is literally processing this as a real physical threat.

575
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: The vital point is again pain is the pain is real.

576
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: It may have an emotional, mental, or psychological origin, but

577
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: the pain receptors are being triggered in a very real

578
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: way that will have us experiencing the sensation of pain.

579
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: It is not in someone's head. Just because you can't

580
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: point to a physical wound or a broken limb, I

581
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: think another huge barrier and acknowledging this and getting help

582
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: for this is shame. Shame, God, It is like a

583
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 3: plague on society. Shame just is like, oh my god,

584
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 3: I think it just keeps so many people miserable and

585
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: hurt when they don't have to be trauma, you know,

586
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 3: especially when it's dismissed when it's unseen. It really breeds

587
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: this feeling of if I talk about this, if people

588
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: know this about me, they will only see me as this.

589
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: They will see me differently, they will walk on eggshells

590
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 3: around me. They will cringe or be embarrassed at what

591
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: I've been through. Like there's always that voice that is saying,

592
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: this isn't that serious. Don't ruin your reputation, don't make

593
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: people uncomfortable, don't make too big of a deal of this.

594
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: And it has to be be silent, be quiet, deal

595
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: with it, and guess what, it never works. The dealing

596
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: with it is not actually dealing with it.

597
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: It's just suppressing it.

598
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: This shame, you know, it prevents people from seeking help

599
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: because they're terrified of being charged. They're terrified of being

600
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: seen as weak. They're terrified that they're going to speak

601
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: about their trauma and someone's going to say, oh, that's

602
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 3: not that big of a deal. Stop being so dramatic.

603
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: There's also the real kicker to trauma in that you

604
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: often have to retrigger it to get through it. You

605
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 3: have to talk about it, You have to expose yourself

606
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 3: to things that you've avoided in a manner that's safe

607
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: so that you can rewire that physiological and psychological reaction.

608
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: That's bloody heart. If all that we're saying is true

609
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 3: reliving trauma, reliving the memories brings about real pain, then

610
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 3: the path to healing is.

611
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 2: Going to be painful.

612
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: And sometimes people just don't want to go through that,

613
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 3: which is totally totally understandable. But I want to provide

614
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 3: the silver lining in this very heavy conversation. There are

615
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 3: some wonderful therapeutic techniques that minimize the pain as you

616
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 3: are healing and in the long term that don't necessarily

617
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: retrigger you and leave you in that retriggered space and

618
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 3: can really really help you. And I want to talk

619
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 3: about some of the ones that have been introduced recently

620
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: that maybe aren't spoken about that much, in which are

621
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 3: these new frontiers of how we manage mental pain as

622
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: physical pain. Now, I will say one of my criticisms

623
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: of the Body Keeps the Score is that it presents

624
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: these ideas and it kind of makes it seem that

625
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 3: you can just like, DII why this. You cannot you

626
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: cannot DIY this unless you have like gone through extensive training.

627
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 3: There are so many amazing people who are experts in

628
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 3: this who can guide you through these therapeutic techniques. We're

629
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 3: just going to discuss them from like a lens of

630
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 3: psycho education and from a lens of like knowledge and

631
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 3: just knowing they're out there, knowing they're available, knowing the

632
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 3: core premise, and knowing that they're not scary, so that

633
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 3: you can go and seek out someone who can help

634
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: you with this at a deeper level. So I just

635
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 3: have to put that little disclaimer in here, But to

636
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: dive in a lot of trauma therapy these days is

637
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: really about, thank gosh, really about integrating the mind and

638
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 3: the body. In a large part of that maybe talking

639
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 3: about what occurred in the past, but it's equally about

640
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: controlling how we respond physically and helping our nervous system

641
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 3: feel safe so that it can return to a state

642
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: of homeostasis and equilibrium. A really fantastic evidence based therapy

643
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 3: often recommended for people with PTSD or complex PTSD, is

644
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 3: called I movement desensitization and Reprocessing therapy or EMDR, which

645
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: you may.

646
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: Have heard of more recently.

647
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: I feel like it's having a little bit of a

648
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: moment because it is fantastic. This was actually developed by

649
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: Francie Shapiriir. The story of how she came up with

650
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: this therapeutic technique is actually, I like it. I think

651
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: it's quite beautiful. She came up with it or discovered it,

652
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: I guess, almost by accident. Like she was walking through

653
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: the park one day and she was reliving or thinking

654
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 3: about something that was deeply painful to her and traumatic

655
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: to her, and she was moving her eyes side to side,

656
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 3: like looking at birds and looking at plants and looking

657
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: at the trees, and as she was doing it, she

658
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: was like, Wow, this actually feels like the intensity of

659
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 3: this memory is going down, Like I'm really starting to

660
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 3: feel better about this. So she took that experience, she

661
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: did obviously a lot more research and put it into

662
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: a lot of clinical applications, and she came up with AMDR,

663
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: which uses the same principles. Specifically, it uses this method

664
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: known as bi lateral stimulation, which basically means both halves

665
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 3: of your brains of your brain are active at the

666
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: same time, like a therapist will guide your eyes from

667
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: side to side, or we'll tap you on each side

668
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 3: of your head as you are recalling a traumatic memory,

669
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: and it's thought to help the brain kind of reprocess

670
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: and reintegrate this memory by moving it from the part

671
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 3: of the brain that keeps it stuck and active, so

672
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 3: the amygdala, to the part that stores it as a

673
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: past event that can no longer hurt us, the hypocampus.

674
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: When we experience something really overwhelming, our amygdala takes over

675
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 3: and our prefrontal cortext the part of our brain that

676
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: is responsible for executive thinking rational thinking. It's basically demoted.

677
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: That means that when we are retriggered or something reminds

678
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: us of the past, it can feel like it's happening right.

679
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: Now all over again, leading.

680
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 3: The brain in the body to have that disproportionate response

681
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: because it genuinely thinks like this is really happening. It

682
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: doesn't recognize like, oh this is this is a memory,

683
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: This isn't real. So EDMR helps us reduce the intensity

684
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: of these memories by reducing activity in the brain's fear circuits.

685
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: Whilst we actively recall this event so that it loses

686
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: some of its sharpness, the memory doesn't disappear. It's not

687
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 3: like hypnosis. We're not trying to make you forget. It's

688
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 3: just that the emotional physiological charge is neutralized in a

689
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 3: way that allows us to recall it without the associated terror.

690
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: So this is one of the ways that we can

691
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 3: create psychological and physical safety for ourselves so that we

692
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: can integrate our experience. We are going to take a

693
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: short break, but then I want to talk about a

694
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: few others, including one of my own favorite techniques that

695
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: I have tried that I love, that I could talk

696
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: about for literal days. So stay with us. We will

697
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 3: be right back. So let's talk about a few other

698
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 3: ways that people have studied, examined, and are trying to

699
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 3: kind of help us integrate our trauma on an individual level.

700
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: Now I did acknowledge this before, but that is something

701
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: about trauma that is very frustrating for many people. Trauma

702
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 3: is often systemic. It happens within large systems, it happens

703
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 3: between two or multiple people. Yeah, it's annoying. We are

704
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: kind of forced to heal from it individually.

705
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: It's very unfair. There are definitely.

706
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 3: Collective methods for this that are I think a little

707
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: bit more underground, collective trauma therapy support groups, things like

708
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 3: yarning circles. In Australia, these are practiced by First Nations

709
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: people where a group of people sit in a circle

710
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 3: they share experiences, they share knowledge, advice, support, surrounded by

711
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 3: their community. But a lot of Western trauma therapy is

712
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: definitely focused on the individual. There is a book I

713
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 3: really want to read. It's on my bookshelf right now.

714
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: It's called Very Appropriate Appropriately Healing Collective Trauma. But we

715
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 3: are mainly going to talk about individual methods here, acknowledging

716
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 3: that there is like a huge gap in the mental

717
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: health and psychology and trauma space to try and help

718
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: people in a collective community way, hopefully and definitely without

719
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 3: retraumatizing them. It's definitely I think something that more research

720
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 3: and more funding needs to get to be put into,

721
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: Like we need to stop thinking about trauma is just

722
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: an individual issue and more as a community issue and

723
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: one that can be helped with community. But back to

724
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: these individual therapies, things like somatic therapies, for example, I

725
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: still think they are really, really effective. The goal of

726
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: these therapies isn't, you know, to retell the story of

727
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: the trauma. It isn't to like try and make it

728
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: make sense, because it never will. It's just to gently

729
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: guide the body to let go of its defensive response

730
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 3: and say this doesn't have to make sense. But I'm

731
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: still safe. Just because I don't have closure for this

732
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that I'm not in a space where I

733
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: can let myself relax. One of these therapies is known

734
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 3: as smatic experiencing and it was founded by the psychologist

735
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: and the author, doctor Peter Levine. So within this process,

736
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 3: therapists use this thing called titration to guide a client

737
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: to just feel or re experience a really small, manageable

738
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 3: piece of the traumatic sensation in their body and then

739
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: let it go. So it's like slowly releasing the pressure

740
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 3: from a locked valve, tiny bits at the time, so

741
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: it doesn't all flood out, allowing the stored energy to

742
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 3: kind of discharge itself bit by bit without overwhelming the system.

743
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: Whilst Lavine, I think he's definitely come under similar criticisms

744
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: to Vanderkolk, sematic experiencing really demonstrates at least some use

745
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: in reconnecting with our bodies and understanding certain physical sensations

746
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: so that we can feel in control of something that

747
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 3: has often robbed of people who have repeatedly experienced or

748
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 3: been exposed to trauma. They didn't feel in control of

749
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 3: how their body reacts and their body responds because it's

750
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 3: operating on a different plane, as we know. When I

751
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 3: was also looking into the research behind further body based

752
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: practices for trauma, I also came across a lot of

753
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: evidence for yoga, which didn't surprise me. I have a

754
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 3: friend who, one friend in particular only thinking about who

755
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 3: has this like totally truly spiritual story about how yoga

756
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: has helped her overcome some pretty terrible childhood trauma stuff.

757
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 3: Every time she tells this story to me, like I

758
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: get chills and I get tears, Like every single time,

759
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 3: I think, I've got to ask you to come onto

760
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: the podcast and if she'd be willing to talk about it.

761
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 3: But it's just beyond brilliant yoga as a therapeutic technique.

762
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: It's just groundbreaking, you know. For example, there was a

763
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen study based in the US that looked at

764
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,479
Speaker 3: the effect of twelve sah of yoga on a group

765
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 3: of women with PTSD, and it compared their symptoms to

766
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 3: those of people who didn't take part. And what they

767
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,959
Speaker 3: found was that those who completed the twelve sessions demonstrated

768
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: less anxiety, less hyper arousal, and they reported that they

769
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: had less pain and less mental discomfort. Or distress associated

770
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: with re experiencing their trauma on the day to day.

771
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 3: And if we think of the crucial elements of yoga,

772
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 3: it really makes sense, you know, the focused, controlled breathing,

773
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: moving our bodies alongside other people. Again, maybe that's pointing

774
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: to again a more collective way of managing trauma. Even

775
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 3: like the stretching and the release of muscular tension, the flexibility,

776
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: the sense of personal control and agency over our bodies,

777
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: it all comes together to combat the negative side effects

778
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: that stored trauma can cause. In a slightly different vein person,

779
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 3: I found that running and weight lifting has had a

780
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: similar effect for me. Could never get into yoga, But recently,

781
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 3: I feel like I've talked about this on our run

782
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 3: Club episode, I have just found like a new love

783
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: for like endurance running. I don't know where it came from.

784
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: It's not just the endorphins either. It's this sense of

785
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: strength and power that I get from pushing myself traumatic experiences.

786
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 3: I think they make us feel so weak sometimes and powerless.

787
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: That's literally their very nature. And when I run, I

788
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 3: feel so strong, I feel so capable.

789
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: I feel a lot.

790
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: Of the rage that I've been carrying kind of releasing

791
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 3: itself into something that I can feel proud of and

792
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: that I can see my body doing. I also trust

793
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: my body more. I feel like my stress and my

794
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: anxiety have lessened. There is this incredible podcast that I

795
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: actually listened to on this the other day. I'm literally

796
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: gonna get my phone up and I'm going to find it.

797
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: It was with this running influencer that I follow called

798
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 3: Maddie Runs, and she lives in Utah, and she sat

799
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 3: down and talked to this person. I'm literally trying to

800
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 3: find it.

801
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: Here it is.

802
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: It's from the Everyday Ultra podcast. It's called how to

803
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: Heal Through Running and Build Self Belief with Madeleine Wolfbauger.

804
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 3: And I listened to that podcast and I was like, oh,

805
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 3: this totally makes sense. This like physical connection that she's

806
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: had with her body has allowed her trauma to be

807
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 3: expressed in a way that she feels is manageable. When

808
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 3: she's running, she feels so capable and she feels so

809
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 3: in control that the negative thoughts can come up and

810
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 3: she's still she still is like again in control of

811
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: her body and so they're allowed to be released. Incredible podcasts.

812
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 3: Should absolutely listen to it. She is amazing as well.

813
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: She's just really really cool. But again, all this is

814
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: about connection. Breath work is another one that people talk

815
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: about a lot. We just did an episode on that

816
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: with our expert guests Jessica Dibb. There's so much neuroscience

817
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 3: to all of this. There's so much neuroscience to the

818
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: way that having a better physical relationship with our body

819
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 3: allows us to build self trust in the fact that

820
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: we can handle the physical manifestations of our trauma and

821
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: we can. We are in control, We are in charge,

822
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 3: even if the emotional side of it doesn't make us

823
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: feel that way. I think ultimately healing from trauma that

824
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 3: is trapped in the body is about helping the body

825
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 3: understand that the threat is over. That is like the

826
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: line we keep coming back to, It's about building a

827
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 3: sense of safety. Trauma is the disruption of safety, coming

828
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 3: back to your body, feeling safe in your body. Therefore,

829
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: I think just like undercuts all, like all the stories

830
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 3: that trauma is.

831
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 4: Telling us that we are not safe. You know.

832
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 3: Of course, we also have to give a shout out

833
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: to like our cognitive and like our talk therapies as

834
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: well for getting a lot of people to the point

835
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 3: where they can have this sematic and physical approach. But whatever,

836
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: whatever you can do, whatever practice you can find that

837
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: is going to allow you to realize that your mind

838
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: and your body are in unison, and that your emotional

839
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: experiences show up physically in a way that is completely

840
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 3: valid and completely real and completely felt. That is going

841
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 3: to help you. The body, like our body, this is

842
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: going to get kind of spiritual, is like, but it

843
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: is like it is such a gift and it is

844
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 3: such a vessel through which we can deepen our connection

845
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 3: with our sense of self psychologically, it is like this

846
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: domain and this tool that we have hopefully a lot

847
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 3: of power over and that we can use as I

848
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: don't even know how to explain this. It's just something

849
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 3: I've been really like, really feeling deeper and deeper recently,

850
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 3: Like the guys look at me going but like the

851
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 3: body is not us, but the body is like an

852
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: extension of us that by taking care of by understanding more,

853
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 3: by treating with respect, by treating as much like in

854
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: the same way we treat our mind, can really heal us.

855
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 3: I feel like psychology is it has done so much

856
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 3: for allowing us to understand the mental side of trauma.

857
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: And how our.

858
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: Sense of self and our sense of safety, and our

859
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: sense of peace, and our sense of harmony and our

860
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 3: sense of meaning is disrupted by trauma. We need to

861
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 3: like add this body peace into it and understand that again,

862
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: when these deep painful feelings cannot be expressed through the

863
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 3: mind and are not allowed to be expressed maybe verbally

864
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: or maybe mentally by thinking about them, they will find

865
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 3: other ways to come out. And the body is the

866
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 3: body is like kind of the sacrifice at that point.

867
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 3: So I hope that this episode has just allowed you

868
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 3: to understand the mechanisms behind that better and what people

869
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 3: mean when they say the body keeps a score or

870
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 3: trauma is stored in the body.

871
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

872
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 3: I feel like once you understand this, you're just like

873
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 3: I see my life differently and I see my body differently.

874
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 3: And hopefully you go and check out some of those

875
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 3: other resources that I've shared and those other people who

876
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 3: talk about this a lot more excellently than I do,

877
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: and who have even more marvelous and incredible stories and

878
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: facts and insights to share. If you have made it

879
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 3: this far, leave a little emoji down below of what

880
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 3: represents peace for you. The opposite of trauma, the opposite

881
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 3: of pain. Where do you feel most at peace? Like

882
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 3: what symbolizes real contentment and safety for you? Thank you

883
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 3: for listening if you did make it this far as well.

884
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 3: I really appreciate when people make it all the way

885
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: to the end of the episodes, when you make it

886
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: all the way the end to my little rants.

887
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 4: And my little brand poo and me going off script,

888
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 4: So thank you.

889
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: Make sure as well that you are following us on

890
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: Instagram at that psychology podcast if you already follow us,

891
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 3: you know, we do like episode summaries. We sometimes ask

892
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 3: for episode suggestions, we announced tour dates, We do all

893
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 3: that stuff over there that we don't always do.

894
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: On the podcast.

895
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 4: Whoopsies, that's totally my fault.

896
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 3: But follow me over there so that you can be

897
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 3: engaged with the community. Make sure that you are following

898
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: us as well on Spotify or Apple podcasts wherever you

899
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 3: are listening, and give us a five star review if

900
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 3: this episode resonated with you, if you feel called to

901
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 3: do so, make sure you take care of yourself. I

902
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: know this episode was rather heavy. It was a bit

903
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 3: of an info dump. It definitely was perhaps a little

904
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 3: bit retriggering if some of these concepts are ones that

905
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 3: you know, you don't always talk about and which are

906
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 3: very heavy for you, so I'm going to leave some

907
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 3: resources below as well, but please again be kind to yourself,

908
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 3: be gentle, take care of yourself, and we will of

909
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 3: course talk very very soon.

910
00:53:59,080 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: See you later,