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Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the Con we ran into these people.

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Speaker 2: They were like, you know, if you could give us

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Speaker 2: a ride, we wouldn't have to steal anything that we

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Speaker 2: would just have to like bring them there and then

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Speaker 2: park in the parking lot and then just you know,

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Speaker 2: drive away. They told us, like would pay you like

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Speaker 2: probably like one hundred dollars to two hundred dollars a day.

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Speaker 2: And so we were like, all right, you.

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Speaker 3: Don't have a roof over your head.

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Speaker 1: What do you have to lose? You have nothing to lose,

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Speaker 1: nothing to lose. And this poor girl got kicked out

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Speaker 1: of the house at eighteen and she fell in literally

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Speaker 1: with the wrong crowd. She was homeless. She fell in

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Speaker 1: with other homeless and that's where she learned how to

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Speaker 1: shoplift for money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's you know, it's survival. It's survival, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because you have to survive. You have to do what

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Speaker 3: you need to do to get by.

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Speaker 1: My conversation with a professional shoplifter changes my perspective on everything.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to do this for like

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Speaker 2: every it means to an end, you know, it's it

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Speaker 2: means for us to like just get like enough money,

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Speaker 2: Like because like we were having to pay for hotel

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Speaker 2: like every if we wanted to shower like whatever.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, fences like Michelle Mack are making millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: on the backs of all these low level shoplifters who

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Speaker 1: are literally living hand to mouth.

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Speaker 4: What Michelle Mack was doing was human trafficking. What Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you really think about it, right, the definition of

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Speaker 4: human trafficking is you're basically exploiting a human being and

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Speaker 4: forcing them, coercing them or paying them to do a

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Speaker 4: service for ill gotten games, for illegal activity, human trafficking.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is Queen of the Con

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Speaker 1: Season six, The California Girls, episode four. She may have

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Speaker 1: stolen half my wedding cake.

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Speaker 4: I'd be very curious to see if the prosecuting attorneys

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Speaker 4: are filing human trafficking charges against her, because right now,

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Speaker 4: because of what's going on in the world we.

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Speaker 1: Live in, that's a hot topic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm kind of wondering why no one in

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Speaker 4: the media that's reporting on it has called it what

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Speaker 4: it also is, human trafficking.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Jordan Marakian again proposing a novel theory on how

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Speaker 1: to get the Michelle matt case the attention it deserves.

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Speaker 4: You put that in a headline, you're going to get

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Speaker 4: a ton of clicks and a ton of traction. But

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Speaker 4: calling it organized retail theft, I think people are going

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Speaker 4: to say, well, who's the victim? Right, consumers are getting

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Speaker 4: items at a discount on Amazon, These companies like Ulta

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Speaker 4: are making millions of dollars. Who's being hurt by it?

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Speaker 4: Which is precisely why I'm concerned that she's not going

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Speaker 4: to get as much time as you or I maybe

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Speaker 4: would hope she would. They're going to minimize what she did.

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Speaker 4: She was trying to send her kids to college. Right,

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Speaker 4: she was operating a side business, and it got a

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Speaker 4: little out of control. These girls that she had stealing

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Speaker 4: for her, they did that of their own free will.

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Speaker 4: You know, she didn't force them. That's why they're going

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Speaker 4: to say it's not human trafficking, but it is. It's

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent human trafficking.

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Speaker 1: It's coercion. Right, she dangled the money, she made the requirement.

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Speaker 1: She would buy them plane tickets and text them instructions.

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Speaker 1: And she was controlling them.

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Speaker 4: She was, and she was using her financial situation, her power,

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Speaker 4: her influence to coerce them into doing things. But she

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Speaker 4: was paying them to do things that she knew were illegal,

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Speaker 4: and in some ways, I would argue she was exploiting

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Speaker 4: them because of their situation. You're going to go after

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Speaker 4: vulnerable people to do things like that. Like if somebody

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Speaker 4: approaches you or I and they say, hey, Jonathan, I'll

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Speaker 4: pay you one thousand dollars to walk into alt beauty

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Speaker 4: and steal, You're gonna say no. But if you live

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Speaker 4: in a community where you don't have as much money

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Speaker 4: or resources and somebody says to you, I'll give you

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Speaker 4: one thousand dollars to do X and Y, you'll do it.

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Speaker 4: And that's what she was doing. I never thought of

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Speaker 4: it that way, right, And I'm not trying to paint

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Speaker 4: the picture that the people stealing were victims. They knew

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Speaker 4: what they were doing too. But look at the people

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Speaker 4: that are being arrested from that operation. They all live

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Speaker 4: in communities that aren't as affluent as Bonsaw, where Michelle lives.

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Speaker 4: They're doing it to feed their families, they're doing it

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Speaker 4: as a profession. Doesn't make it right, But what she's

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Speaker 4: doing is she's taking advantage of their situation for her

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Speaker 4: own financial gain.

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Speaker 1: According to investigators, Michelle Mack has been running her retail

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Speaker 1: theft empire for more than ten years, though she's only

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Speaker 1: been living in that Tuscan style mansion just north of

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Speaker 1: San Diego for the past three years. Before Michelle McK

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Speaker 1: and her husband Kenneth moved to California, back in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: they were living in another opulent mansion in Gilbert, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: a city of about a quarter million people just outside Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: and at that time, Michelle Mack was starting up her

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Speaker 1: first wedding venue business.

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Speaker 6: She approached me at the end of one of our

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Speaker 6: performances at the Bridle Show.

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Speaker 1: That's Chadlockerdize, a master dance instructor and founder of dancewith

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Speaker 1: Chad dot com. So you teach people how to dance

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Speaker 1: for their wedding correct yep. So whenever you see those,

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Speaker 1: you know, I see those wedding videos on the news

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Speaker 1: sometimes or they go viral on YouTube where the bride

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Speaker 1: and groom come out and all of a sudden, the

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Speaker 1: music starts and there's this crazy choreographed dance they do

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Speaker 1: that impresses everyone. That's you, that's us. Yep, very cool.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty sixteen, Chad and his company of dancers

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Speaker 1: were at a wedding expo just outside Phoenix when Michelle

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Speaker 1: Mack made a beeline over to him, emphatically urging him

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Speaker 1: to attend the wedding expo she was hosting at her

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Speaker 1: new mansion.

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Speaker 6: Weeks later, she approached me and said, hey, you know,

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Speaker 6: I've got this amazing. I mean, it was a little

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Speaker 6: bit over the top to me, but I didn't know

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Speaker 6: if it was. Maybe I was just tired. But as

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Speaker 6: I look back and I'm starting to remember it, she

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Speaker 6: was a little bit over the top about this, this

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Speaker 6: glorified mansion and this phenomenal venue. And I had this feeling,

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Speaker 6: and had I gone with the feeling that I nor

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Speaker 6: would have politely turned her down, because you know, after

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Speaker 6: the bridal show, gosh, we would hit probably thirty to

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Speaker 6: forty five open houses, and most of the open houses

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Speaker 6: were already established relationships with us, so she was new.

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Speaker 1: When you say open houses, these are wedding venues. Yes.

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Speaker 1: The people in the crowd watching you at these open houses,

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Speaker 1: at these events, they are presumably brides and grooms planning

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Speaker 1: a wedding, looking for people to hire to help them

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Speaker 1: put the wedding on.

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Speaker 6: Correct orgrooms and grooms or brides and brides.

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Speaker 1: I like, how inclusive you are?

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Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I'm a married gay man and so I appreciate that.

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Speaker 6: Oh well there you go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So what was her pitch to you? You

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Speaker 1: say she was over the top. She approaches you, and

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Speaker 1: what's her pitch? What what made her appear over the

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Speaker 1: top to you?

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Speaker 6: It was it was just a was just a gut

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Speaker 6: feeling that I had. It wasn't anything really that she

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Speaker 6: did wrong. I just thought she was over selling herself

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Speaker 6: and the venue a bit. That's the feeling I had.

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Speaker 6: And so she gave me her card and then she said, here,

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Speaker 6: you know, this is the date, this is the time.

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Speaker 6: You know, I really need a commitment today, you know.

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Speaker 6: And I said, tell you what, let me just let

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Speaker 6: me at least look at my book and get back

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Speaker 6: to you later tonight or tomorrow. And so we ended

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Speaker 6: up doing the event.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Mack had dubbed her recently purchased forty five hundred

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Speaker 1: square foot mansion San Tan Mountains Weddings and Events because

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Speaker 1: it faced that picturesque mountain range boasting gorgeous desert views

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Speaker 1: strewn with cacti framing thousands of jagged rock formations colored

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Speaker 1: in infinite shades of deep crimson.

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Speaker 6: The mountains here are gorgeous. The mansion itself was beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Chad and his team from Dance with Chad dot Com

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Speaker 1: attended Michelle Max's open house in late twenty sixteen. So

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Speaker 1: she had bought this mansion, and part of her pitch

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Speaker 1: to you was, come to this event I'm hosting. There'll

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Speaker 1: be a ton of prospective brides and grooms and grooms

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Speaker 1: and grooms and brides and brides there. You know, yep,

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Speaker 1: they can hire you there. You know yep. Did she

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Speaker 1: seem desperate?

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Speaker 6: No, it was almost a over the top I've got

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Speaker 6: this going on. You need to be a part of it.

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Speaker 6: If you're anybody. She didn't seem desperate. She seems like she.

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Speaker 1: Had the best game in town, and you'd be lucky

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Speaker 1: to be a part of it.

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Speaker 6: Exactly, very confident, over the top confident.

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Speaker 1: But literally moments after Chad and his da answers arrive,

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Speaker 1: they start regretting they ever came, and Michelle Mack seems

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Speaker 1: oblivious to it all. Suddenly there's a disgusting smell in

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Speaker 1: the air, and you won't believe where it's coming from.

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Speaker 1: After the break, Welcome back to Queen of the Cohn.

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Speaker 1: A professional dance team shows up to a wedding expo

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Speaker 1: at Michelle Max's new Arizona mansion and they're pissed.

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Speaker 6: They knew we were coming specifically to dance, and I'm like,

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Speaker 6: you need to provide a floor. Where's the floor you want?

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Speaker 6: My girls are going to be dancing on brick with

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Speaker 6: grooves on that and heels. I don't think so. I

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Speaker 6: Am not going to have my ladies dance on that

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Speaker 6: floor in heels and hurt themselves.

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Speaker 1: And what was wrong with the floor For people who

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Speaker 1: don't know dance.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it was not only bricks, Jonathan, but there

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Speaker 6: were grooves between the bricks where the heel would get stuck.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen,

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Speaker 1: right right right.

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Speaker 6: And the other weird thing is like we were outside

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Speaker 6: and we're up against the back wall and I'm like,

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Speaker 6: I smell, like that is that poop? That's kind of disgusting?

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Speaker 1: What is that?

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Speaker 6: You know? And then all of a sudden we hear

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Speaker 6: and so there was a cow farm on the other side.

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Speaker 6: Of the wall, and so I went up to her.

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Speaker 6: I'm like, we're not going to stay by that wall.

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Speaker 6: You need to find a different spot for us. So,

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Speaker 6: you know, at this point, two strikes the dance floor,

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Speaker 6: the manure, and then it was just an odd feeling throughout.

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Speaker 6: When I went around and chatted with some of the

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Speaker 6: other vendors, they're like, yeah, we're not sure that this

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Speaker 6: was a great idea, but she pumped it up so

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Speaker 6: much and it was not well attended at all, and

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Speaker 6: the other vendors were very unhappy. In fact, a few

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Speaker 6: folded up their stuff and left. But when I saw

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Speaker 6: the look on some of the vendors' faces, they were

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Speaker 6: they were disgusted, is what I saw in their face.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so she promised this big event, like she's the

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Speaker 1: new kid on the block and to take all the

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Speaker 1: business from everyone. You should attend this, you attend, and

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Speaker 1: it was a bust. It sounds like not a lot

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Speaker 1: of people showed up.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we're like, we're out of here. She promised us,

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Speaker 6: this promises that you know, it stinks here, it's you know,

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Speaker 6: we're gone, We're leaving.

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Speaker 1: And after chatting his team left. He actively avoided Michelle

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Speaker 1: Mack from that point on, but I've people in the

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Speaker 1: Phoenix area were drawn to her.

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Speaker 7: I went to a wedding expo in like October of

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Speaker 7: twenty sixteen, and she was advertising her house as a venue.

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Speaker 1: That's a woman we're calling Brittany, not her real name,

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Speaker 1: because she wants to remain anonymous. She first met Michelle

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Speaker 1: Mack at a wedding expo outside Phoenix eight years ago.

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Speaker 7: So she had like a display of flowers and like

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Speaker 7: all this stuff. And I actually had had a deposit

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Speaker 7: on a different venue because my wedding was.

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Speaker 5: In like less than six months.

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Speaker 7: But she was able to give me a price cheaper

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Speaker 7: than that and include like way more.

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Speaker 8: Really yes, like like it was less than five grand

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Speaker 8: to book with her, and it included all like everything

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Speaker 8: I needed, And what.

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Speaker 1: Were other people charging for the same thing?

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Speaker 5: So are my original venue and anywhere else? Like the

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Speaker 5: original venue I booked with was the cheapest one I

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Speaker 5: found before her, and like my original venue was still

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Speaker 5: gonna be. I think it was just under four but

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Speaker 5: you only got like.

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Speaker 7: A few hours, and it didn't include anything for the tables.

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Speaker 7: It's like you get the tables and chairs, but you

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Speaker 7: don't get center pieces. It maybe included tablecloths, but Michelle

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Speaker 7: included everything, like everything, all any like signage.

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Speaker 5: She made this like light wall.

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Speaker 7: She had, you know, like strung lights, like every She

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Speaker 7: had fake florals, so I only had to buy bouquets

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Speaker 7: and boutineers, but she had everything else. So I got

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Speaker 7: a venue, I got set up, I got to be

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Speaker 7: there the entire day, set up.

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Speaker 5: Tear down.

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Speaker 7: They did all of that, tables, chairs, linens, florals, centerpieces, signage.

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Speaker 7: She actually had a florist come and like arrange the

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Speaker 7: fake flowers that were there. She had a mother in

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Speaker 7: law suite, so the little house that's part of her house,

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Speaker 7: so it was almost like a little studio apartment. And

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Speaker 7: her price automatically included I think one or two nights,

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Speaker 7: and I added one or two nights because I know

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Speaker 7: I had it for three nights, but.

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Speaker 5: It still was. It was actually less than forty five

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Speaker 5: hundred for all of that.

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Speaker 7: For all of that, and I had, I mean, I

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Speaker 7: had beautiful decord, like the string lights she had covered

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Speaker 7: her house with the side of her house that would

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Speaker 7: be like the backdrop where the dancing was, with like

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Speaker 7: some sort of drapery and lights so it didn't look.

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Speaker 5: Like you're in front of a house.

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Speaker 7: You look like you're in front of like a magical

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Speaker 7: twinkle light wall.

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Speaker 5: All of that, Oh, that was included.

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Speaker 7: And they had so and she had not only set

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Speaker 7: up for ceremony right, they set up in her yard

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Speaker 7: for the ceremony, They had cocktail hour by the pool setup,

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Speaker 7: and then they reset the ceremony area for the reception

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Speaker 7: as well, like they did, like they did all of

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Speaker 7: the work. I did not have to hire any laborers

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Speaker 7: aside from my caterer and bartender.

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Speaker 1: Wow, FYI, I'm posting pictures of Michelle max Arizona mansion

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Speaker 1: and wedding setup at Queen of the Con on Instagram

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Speaker 1: so you can see what Britney's talking about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Britney really shopped around like most brides to be, and

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Speaker 1: she got quotes from a dozen other wedding venues. Most

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Speaker 1: of them wanted upwards of ten thousand dollars to provide

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Speaker 1: the same stuff Michelle Mack was providing for forty five.

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Speaker 7: Hundred, so I think I actually got a pretty good deal.

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Speaker 1: Well, when she was orchestrating this shoplifting ring and she

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Speaker 1: would take all the stolen stuff and put it on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: She was selling it for like half price. So like

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Speaker 1: it's so eerie that she was kind of doing a

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Speaker 1: similar thing with you, Like she's underpricing everyone, And is

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Speaker 1: that how she got you totally? How many people were

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Speaker 1: at your.

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Speaker 5: Wedding ninety eight?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, so you had a wedding for ninety

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Speaker 1: eight people for forty five hundred dollars. Yes, Jesus, that's a.

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Speaker 5: Steel Yeah, it really is.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And Britney's wedding goes off without a hitch. It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing. And the mansion itself is a spectacle that

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Speaker 1: all her guests were awed by.

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Speaker 7: It almost looks like a more modest castle, I would say,

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Speaker 7: because of the brick. So when you pull up, it

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Speaker 7: has like an archway, like there's a courtyard before you

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Speaker 7: get to her front door. So like you see this

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Speaker 7: beautiful brick and then you like go through the courtyard

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Speaker 7: and then like there's her front door. I mean, her

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Speaker 7: decor style was still like at least on the inside

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Speaker 7: of her house was still very much like it was

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Speaker 7: age appropriate. I'd say, like women her age love that

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Speaker 7: brown and red decory, you know what I'm talking.

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Speaker 5: About, Like from the early two thousands. I don't know

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Speaker 5: if it's like supposed to be like a Tuscany or something.

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Speaker 5: The house is big and beautiful.

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Speaker 7: She said she had like pro athletes says and stuff

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Speaker 7: like that. Like she was in a really nice neighborhood

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Speaker 7: in Arizona. I mean, everyone had a really good time.

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Speaker 7: It was a really beautiful she had a really beautiful backyard.

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Speaker 7: I think another issue she ended up having was I

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Speaker 7: don't think her neighbors liked it very much that she

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Speaker 7: did it. It's not like rural like she had neighbors.

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Speaker 7: So we were allowed a couple cars by her house.

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Speaker 7: She had a decent sized driveway and she lived in

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Speaker 7: a cul de sac. But then most of my guests

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Speaker 7: did need to park down the street and I forgot

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Speaker 7: about this.

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Speaker 5: It did include a shuttle as well, for the price

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Speaker 5: less than five thousand dollars. Yes, included a shuttle too.

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Speaker 1: I had heard from someone who performed at the venue,

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Speaker 1: who was a dancer, that there were like cows nearby

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Speaker 1: and the smell of cowpoop. Do you recall smelling any cowpoop?

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Speaker 5: I don't.

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Speaker 7: I remember at the time I was living in the

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Speaker 7: Gilbert area.

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Speaker 5: That always smelled like cowpoop at night.

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Speaker 7: So if it did, like, I don't think it would

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Speaker 7: have felt any different, Like I don't think I noticed it.

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Speaker 1: But the most amazing thing about Britney's wedding is the

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Speaker 1: fact that her and her future husband never had to

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Speaker 1: dig themselves into a financial hole to pay for it.

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Speaker 5: I don't think we had a crude much debt from it.

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Speaker 7: Like we really gave like what we had, you know,

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Speaker 7: to do it, And.

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Speaker 5: I mean, if we did, we were debt free by

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Speaker 5: the end of that year.

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Speaker 1: It makes me wonder, though, do you think any of

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Speaker 1: the stuff she got you for such a great price,

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Speaker 1: do you think it was stolen?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know why else you would do

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Speaker 5: it that cheap.

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Speaker 1: And what Britney and her fiance witness with their own

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Speaker 1: eyes in Michelle Max's garage puts everything into focus. After

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Speaker 1: the break Welcome back to Queen of the con Brittany

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Speaker 1: is recalling some weird stuff both her and her then

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Speaker 1: fiance now husband observed at Michelle max Arizona mansion during

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Speaker 1: the run up to their wedding.

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Speaker 7: My husband, He remembers her saying that her husband worked in.

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Speaker 1: Wholesale You mean as a way of explaining why this

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Speaker 1: is so inexpensive for you.

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Speaker 5: Guys, Like why she has so much stuff. She had

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Speaker 5: a huge garage, like she.

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Speaker 7: Had I don't even know how many car garages she

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Speaker 7: had in her house in Arizona, but she had so

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Speaker 7: much stuff. She told me, like she had storage units

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Speaker 7: with more things because it didn't even like fit in

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Speaker 7: her house, Like she has so much much stuff.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind, Brittany had her wedding in early twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and according to the California Department of Justice, by late

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Michelle Mack had been running her retail

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Speaker 1: theft ring for more than ten years, so it's entirely

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Speaker 1: possible that Britney and her husband were witnessing an actual

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Speaker 1: crime in progress. You did get a look at her garage, right,

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Speaker 1: What did her garage look like?

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Speaker 7: It was open, I mean it was just full, just

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Speaker 7: full of stuff because she said her husband like was

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Speaker 7: telling her she was getting out of control, like getting

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Speaker 7: so much stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean it just you know, when they arrested her

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Speaker 1: at her mansion in San Diego that she also did

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Speaker 1: weddings out of her garage was full of stuff too,

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Speaker 1: except according to police, it was stuff that was stolen

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Speaker 1: stuff she fenced, stuff she bought from her ring of

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Speaker 1: shoplifters she organized. But the similarity just strikes me, given

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Speaker 1: you know, her garage was full of stuff totally. The

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Speaker 1: other weird thing Brittany remembers about her wedding would have

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Speaker 1: really pissed off most brides, but Brittany let it go

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Speaker 1: at the time, though now she feels differently.

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Speaker 7: Until you approached me, I wouldn't have thought that this

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Speaker 7: would have happened.

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Speaker 5: But she may have stolen half of my wedding cake.

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Speaker 7: What because you know, she did tell me, you know,

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Speaker 7: like if there's leftover food or cake or whatever, you're

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Speaker 7: gonna need you need someone to come and collect that.

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Speaker 7: And I'm like, okay, so we assigned family to go

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Speaker 7: do that. Well, whoever was supposed to go get the cake.

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Speaker 7: They went and they were like, hey, where's the cake

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Speaker 7: And they're like, I don't know. Half of my cake,

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Speaker 7: Like two hundred and fifty dollars worth of cake is gone.

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Speaker 7: It's a very nice cake shop out here, Lisa's own cake.

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Speaker 7: It's so so good, And yeah, I didn't get any leftovers.

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Speaker 7: I didn't know until I got back from my honeymoon,

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Speaker 7: and my aunt was like, so we weren't able to

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Speaker 7: find your leftover cake, and Michelle said she didn't know

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Speaker 7: where it was, and I'm like, what do you mean,

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Speaker 7: Like she it was in her kitchen before we cut it,

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Speaker 7: and then where would it go after that? No, one

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Speaker 7: just like you couldn't just take it without having a container.

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Speaker 7: I don't know why you would want to take someone's cake,

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Speaker 7: but I mean it was good.

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Speaker 1: I mean to use it at another wedding or sell it,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 7: Like I think she did have a wedding because my

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Speaker 7: wedding was on a Thursday.

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Speaker 5: She did have a wedding on Friday or Saturday after me.

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Speaker 1: And was it a lot of cake that was left?

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Speaker 5: It was it was like.

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Speaker 7: Half the cake that I like, the only used half

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Speaker 7: of it, is what my aunt said. There was like

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Speaker 7: half left. Not everybody ate cake. It's supposed to be

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Speaker 7: enough for We had like a two tier and then

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Speaker 7: I think I had a sheet cake for like cuts,

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Speaker 7: and it was supposed to be more than enough for

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Speaker 7: a hundred people, but not everybody like took some.

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Speaker 5: And there was definitely.

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Speaker 7: My aunt saw the leftovers, but then when they went

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Speaker 7: to go get them they She's like, I don't know what.

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Speaker 7: She didn't even say it was gone, she just said

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Speaker 7: she didn't even know where it was.

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Speaker 1: God, the fact that it went missing is just so bizarre.

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Speaker 7: It's just like why, like who had just like no,

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Speaker 7: no guest is gonna just like take it?

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: I have a theory. So I was at a really

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Speaker 1: high end wedding one time with three hundred other people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could have literally bought a house with

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Speaker 1: what this couple spent on their wedding. It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: And the wedding cake was this giant, white, glittering castle

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Speaker 1: six feet high. It had its own rolling platform and everything.

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Speaker 1: I kid you not. So after the bride and groom

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Speaker 1: cut that showstopper of a cake to much fanfare, it

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Speaker 1: was wheeled away into the back, out of sight. Then

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Speaker 1: dozens of tuxedo waiters marched out, carrying individual slices of

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Speaker 1: cake to serve to everyone. There was just one problem

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Speaker 1: in my mind, and again, having been the victim of

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Speaker 1: a con artist, I'm always looking for the scam. There

440
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: was no way on earth that those waiters could have

441
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: cut three hundred pieces of cake in the few minutes

442
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: between when that giant cake castle was wheeled out of

443
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: sight to when the waiters marched out with slices supposedly

444
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: from that same cake.

445
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: No way.

446
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: Come to find out, I was right, That giant, six

447
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: foot white glittering cake castle was a fake cake just

448
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: for show. It's actually a thing some couples do, and

449
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: it might explain why someone like Michelle Mack would want

450
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: to repurpose someone else's left over wedding cake.

451
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 5: That's so weird.

452
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: So it's possible if she stole the cake, the half

453
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: of your cake that was left over, It's possible she

454
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: could have just used it and did the bait and

455
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: switch where they cut a fake cake, went to the

456
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: back and cut up your cake and handed out slices

457
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: of cake to everyone, and no one was the wiser.

458
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 7: I mean, definitely possible. It's just like, my brain just

459
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 7: doesn't work that way. So I'm like, why would you

460
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 7: do that?

461
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: I mean, why else steal that much cake? She can't

462
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: eat it. You said the cake served one hundred people.

463
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: You had fifty people's worth of cake left over, Like, yeah,

464
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: I can't eat cake for fifty people. Her and her husband, Yeah,

465
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: what's more likely he has a wedding venue where she

466
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: holds weddings and events. Now she has leftover cake for

467
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: fifty people. She's probably gonna incorporate it into some other event. Yeah,

468
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: that's a lot of cake. How did you find out

469
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: Michelle Mack was arrested for allegedly spearheading this eight million

470
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: dollar shoplifting ring?

471
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 5: Your email? I was like, is this a weird scam?

472
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 5: Like where are you? Like? How do you know this?

473
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 5: Like what?

474
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 7: So I immediately like lifted up and I showed my husband

475
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 7: and he looked it up. He was like, no, that

476
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 7: really happened. And then and he looked at your podcast,

477
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 7: He's like, it's legit.

478
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: So initially you thought I was trying to scam you

479
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: by sending me an article.

480
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

481
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 7: I'm like, there are weird scammers out there these days,

482
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 7: Like you don't know, right, Like you have to check

483
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 7: all the stuff.

484
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: So here's how I found you. There was a picture

485
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: of your wedding on her Facebook. She still has the

486
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: Facebook page up for Santan Mountain Wedding and Events, And

487
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: I was just going through all the brides and grooms

488
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,479
Speaker 1: she was bragging about that held her events there, and

489
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: you were one of them, and I ran a background

490
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: check on you and your husband, and I found a

491
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: potential email that might be yours, and I took a

492
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: shot and I emailed you and he responded. So I

493
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: was not trying to scam you. I was just trying

494
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: to do what we're doing now, like get the story

495
00:29:54,280 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: and it's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, what was your reaction when

496
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: you found out she'd been arrested for the shoplifting ring?

497
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 7: Now it makes me think, like, oh, that's how she

498
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 7: was able to.

499
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: Do what she did for such a low price.

500
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 5: I mean it was It was really a blessing to me.

501
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 7: Otherwise they would have been getting married at some barn

502
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 7: I didn't even like. And I had to get married

503
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 7: there on a Tuesday because that was the only day

504
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 7: available from that venue because they're the cheapest one before her.

505
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 7: So it really like to be able to have my

506
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 7: dream wedding and not like.

507
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 5: Break the bank was just such a huge blessing. Like

508
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 5: didn't think about it at the time. I just thought like, oh,

509
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 5: she's just getting started, like and then now I'm.

510
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 7: Like, oh, she was probably like taking from a bunch

511
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 7: of other people to she like planned robin hood.

512
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: To me, how is the marriage. Are you and your

513
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,479
Speaker 1: husband happy? You were happy with the wedding, You're happy

514
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: now here we are seven years later?

515
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, we are still married.

516
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 5: It's been seven years.

517
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 7: So we have a kid and we congratulations, a couple

518
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 7: of dogs. So I mean, I mean we love it

519
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 7: living in Arizona.

520
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: So and what do you and your husband do for

521
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: a living.

522
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 7: I'm a hairstylist, so I have a salon in Arizona

523
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 7: with two employees.

524
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 5: And then my husband is.

525
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 7: The director of talent acquisitions for a tech company.

526
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 5: Oh.

527
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 7: I came into work and I was like, crazy thing.

528
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 5: My wedding venue.

529
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 7: Owner from like seven years ago just got arrested for

530
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 7: Like I'm like, it's so random. And client was like,

531
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 7: oh my gosh, I heard about that.

532
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: But before Michelle Mack gets into the wedding venue business

533
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: in Gilbert, Arizona, she creates a website to sell hand

534
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,239
Speaker 1: painted nail files from the Czech Republic. One of her

535
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: former associates is actually stunned by Michelle Mack's recent arrest

536
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and tells The Daily Mail it made me stick to

537
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: my stomach because she has kids. She definitely was not

538
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: involved in anything like this. When we work together because

539
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: I would have never gotten involved with anything stupid like that.

540
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm still in shock. Michelle Mack not only loses her

541
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: wedding venue business in Arizona, but she also defaults on

542
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: a nearly two hundred thousand dollars loan that she took

543
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: out to start that hand painted nail file business too.

544
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: Well, who the hell is buying hand painted nail files

545
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 3: from the Czech Republic.

546
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: My buddy Evan Goldstein Again.

547
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: Michelle Mack, she just seems to have the opposite of

548
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: the Midas touch. Everything she touches just turns shit. She's

549
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: a horrible business woman.

550
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one take, and I could see why

551
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: you would think that. But here's the thing I've noticed

552
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: about con artists. And as you know, I'm writing a

553
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: book about the fourteen red Flags. There's a con artist

554
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: in your life. And one of those red flags is

555
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: they have a legitimate day job. But it's not a

556
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: day job, it's a cover. So what if the Czech

557
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: Republic nail files and the wedding venue business, what if

558
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: those were never meant to succeed, those were just meant

559
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: to provide her cover. Because if you look at the

560
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: investigation by the California Highway Patrol. She was arrested in

561
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three. They say, according to investigators, that

562
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: she was carrying out this organized retail theft ring for

563
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: more than ten years, So that dates us back to

564
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, twenty thirteen, maybe twenty twelve, and that's when

565
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: the nail file business ran into the ground, and that's

566
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: when her wedding venue businesses in Arizona ran into the ground.

567
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: So maybe they were never meant to succeed. Maybe they

568
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: were just supposed to provide her cover because what she

569
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: was really doing was making millions selling stolen stuff on Amazon.

570
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: So at this point, I really want to talk to

571
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: Michelle Mack herself, but neither her or her attorney are

572
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: getting back to me.

573
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: Like, why the hell would you think Michelle Mack would

574
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: talk to you.

575
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, she pled not guilty, right, so there

576
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: is this presumption of innocence. Maybe the California Highway Patrol

577
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: and Homeland Security and that two year investigation, maybe they

578
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: made a mistake. Maybe she's innocent, And if she is innocent,

579
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't you want the chance to tell people about Hey,

580
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: I'm innocent. Here's what really happened. Hey, I'm not guilty. Hey,

581
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: I didn't do this, this, and this. Here's the innocent

582
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: explanation behind it. So since she pled not guilty, maybe

583
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: she wants to explain her side, and I want to

584
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: give her that opportunity. Suddenly I get an idea. The

585
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: next time Michelle Mack is due in court for one

586
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: of her many pre trial hearings, I'll approach her about

587
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: doing an interview. I at least got a try, right, So,

588
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: at the crack of dawn on May twenty ninth, twenty

589
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: twenty four, I drive down to the San Diego Courthouse

590
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: and I wait around outside for hours, intensely watching every

591
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: face that passes me, desperately hoping one of those faces

592
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: will belong to Michelle Mack. And the truth of the

593
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: matter is, she looks so different I almost didn't recognize her. Almost.

594
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: Hey Michelle, my name's Jonathan. I'm with the Queen of

595
00:35:53,440 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: the Con podcast. If you're in joined Queen of the Con,

596
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: tell someone click that share button and send this podcast

597
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if

598
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: you can leave us a five star review, reviews really

599
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: help other listeners find us. Queen of the Con The

600
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,

601
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: Hosted by Me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for

602
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting

603
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by

604
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsh, Audio engineer

605
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: Justin Longerbean. Mastered by Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media,

606
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: Jianny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard Voice acting

607
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: by Jay Anyone