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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, everybody. We're here today bringing you

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Speaker 1: another exciting story going back in time. Gonna go back

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Speaker 1: in time. We're going to the Middle East. We're here

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Speaker 1: talking about the Ottoman Empire. More than just a piece

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Speaker 1: of furniture. People. Suleiman the Magnificent was one of the

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Speaker 1: most beloved and longest ruling sultans in the Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 1: in the sixteenth century, and he fell in love with

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Speaker 1: his concubine Horem. Horem went down in history as the

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Speaker 1: first consort to legally marry the sultan. They wrote poetry

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Speaker 1: to each other, They're buried next to each other. They

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Speaker 1: were obsessed with each other, and this totally changed the world.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it, hey the French, come listen. Well, Elia

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Speaker 1: and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no match making,

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Speaker 1: all romantic tips. It's just about particulous relations shifts a lover,

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Speaker 1: it might be any type of person at all, and

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Speaker 1: abstract concept are a concrete wall. But if there's a

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Speaker 1: story where the second glance, well pridic Let's rolls a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. So if your longtime listener

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Speaker 1: to the show, you know that we definitely put as

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Speaker 1: much effort as we can into getting these name pronunciations right,

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Speaker 1: and some of these are definitely outside of our normal

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Speaker 1: speaking tongue. But we did look up what we can

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Speaker 1: and we hope we nail him right. And if we

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Speaker 1: make an absolute massacre of it, and please don't hesitate

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Speaker 1: to reach out and correct us, we'd love to um

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Speaker 1: tell everybody in the next episode you know how it's

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Speaker 1: really said. I did look up one pronunciation and the

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Speaker 1: pronunciation was just in Cyrillic, and I was like, this

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Speaker 1: is not I don't know how to pronounce anything in Cyrillic.

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Speaker 1: So you have to kind of try and find someone

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Speaker 1: from that region actually saying it out loud. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: look for news reports or something they actually say it.

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Speaker 1: But it can be tricky, so we do our best.

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Speaker 1: And when you're in the sixteenth century, there's nothing, no

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Speaker 1: videos exist, but anyone's talking about her and yeah, so yeah, Leman,

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Speaker 1: we'll start with him. He was appointed the governor of Menissa,

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Speaker 1: which is now the Eudosia, a town in Crimea. It's

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Speaker 1: on the coast of the Black Sea. He lived there

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Speaker 1: till he was twenty six, ruling that province until his

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Speaker 1: father passed away and su Lehman had to take the throne,

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Speaker 1: so he goes back to Constantinople. It gets to work.

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Speaker 1: And as we said, he's considered to be one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest sultan's in history, and he was the longest reigning.

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Speaker 1: He ruled from fifteen twenty to fifteen sixty six. He

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Speaker 1: personally led forces in several conflicts to expand the Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Empire by like sev or something. Eventually ruled over twenty

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Speaker 1: five million people. So the Ottoman Empire is enormous, Like

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Speaker 1: cannot be understated what a power they were. And he

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Speaker 1: brought major Muslim cities like Baghdad, he brought Balkan regions

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Speaker 1: like Croatia and Hungary, and he brought most of North

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Speaker 1: Africa into the Ottoman Empire. So if you're a geography

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Speaker 1: nerd and you want to look at a map, you

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Speaker 1: can see that it really expanded a lot of space.

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Speaker 1: I want to add too, if he rolled over an

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Speaker 1: empire of twenty five million people in the year fifteen hundred,

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Speaker 1: the entire world population was only about four hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty one million, so that's a pretty fty chunk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot smaller than today. And I thought it

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Speaker 1: was interesting. I didn't know this, but the Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 1: really prided itself on how multicultural it was, so they

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Speaker 1: never they weren't really super interested in trying to convert

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Speaker 1: you to any particular religion. They didn't want you to

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Speaker 1: get rid of your language. So a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were multi lingual. They had a lot of religions mixing together,

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Speaker 1: a lot of different styles of art and everything going on,

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Speaker 1: and they were really proud of that. They liked that.

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Speaker 1: What a great idea. I know, I was like, that's dope.

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Speaker 1: He was known as lawgiver to his Ottoman subjects because

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Speaker 1: there are two sets of laws there. There's the Sharia

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Speaker 1: law that's sacred law. It comes from Islam and their

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Speaker 1: holy books, and no one has any control over that.

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Speaker 1: You can be the most powerful sultan in the world,

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Speaker 1: you can't change the Sharia law from above heaven laws

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Speaker 1: for man kind on earth. But there's also some like

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Speaker 1: mundane ship that was never written down. There was no

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Speaker 1: commandments made about taxes, so there's some human law I

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Speaker 1: guess you could say called canoons and that handled more

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Speaker 1: you know, ship like taxes, like like land ownership, criminal law,

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, and um each sultan would kind

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Speaker 1: of issue their own canoons every time they took power.

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Speaker 1: And so what Suleman did was take all the previous rulings,

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Speaker 1: he got rid of any duplications or contradictions, and he

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Speaker 1: made one comprehensive code that lasted for three years. So

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Speaker 1: I guess sultans that came after him were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that looks good. I don't want to I don't wanna

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Speaker 1: do all that work. This guy protected the Jewish subjects

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Speaker 1: of his empire for centuries to come. He issued a

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Speaker 1: ruling formally denouncing blood libels against Jews because of a

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Speaker 1: suggestion by his favorite doctor and dentist, a Spanish Jew

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Speaker 1: named Moses Hammon, just like Suleiman the Magnificent. Great to

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Speaker 1: see you again. Your teeth look fantastic. Just going to

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Speaker 1: scrape a little enamel and take care of a few things. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: I've got you. I was thinking, you know how you

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Speaker 1: like a multi cultural world of different languages and religion

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Speaker 1: and everything. Um, what about no more blood libels on Jews?

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Speaker 1: Just a thought, A great idea, doc you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think, I'm gonna do that, do that, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna flash more, denounce, denounced, anti Semitism and philosophore. Please.

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Speaker 1: I wish my dentist was so explicit. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. My dentist tells me plosophy. She's never specifically

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Speaker 1: mentioned stopping anti Semitism. We can imagine that she probably

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Speaker 1: would agree to it, I think so, I hope so.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise we need a new dentist, I know. Right. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Suleiman's laws cut down on punishments requiring death or mutilation. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he moved more towards imposing fines. Right. He himself was

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Speaker 1: a poet and a goldsmith, so already kind of an

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Speaker 1: artist himself. And then he was a major patron of

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Speaker 1: the arts as well. He presided over the golden age

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Speaker 1: of the Ottoman Empire. In arts there was literature and

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Speaker 1: theology and philosophy and architecture just booming. Many major Turkish

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Speaker 1: cities still boast buildings from this architect memoir sin On.

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Speaker 1: His buildings are still up in their skyline today. They're gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: Look him up. They're just beautiful. It's amazing architecture. Check

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Speaker 1: it out. Historians note that while Suliman's father wrote poetry

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Speaker 1: and Persian, and many Sultan's were influenced by Persian artistic styles,

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Speaker 1: Suleiman helped the Ottoman Empire assert its own artistic legacy.

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Speaker 1: Like this was part of really coming into their own

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Speaker 1: with an artistic voice, which I think really helps just define,

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Speaker 1: you know, an era and a nation. Absolutely. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of that marrying of all those different styles from all

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Speaker 1: over his empire that made for this incredibly interesting and

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Speaker 1: beautiful style of their own that you wouldn't get anywhere else,

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Speaker 1: because everywhere else they were like, if you're not white,

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Speaker 1: get the funk out, or if you're not this religion,

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Speaker 1: get the funk out. He also another way he broke

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Speaker 1: tradition was that he married a concubine in his harem,

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Speaker 1: a woman known as Roxelana. Roxalana was born in a

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Speaker 1: town is part of the Kingdom of Poland at the time.

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Speaker 1: Today it's in western Ukraine. Sometime before maybe fifteen seventeen,

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Speaker 1: she's captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid. She's

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Speaker 1: brought to Constantinople and she's selected for the imperial harem

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Speaker 1: by Suleman's mother as a gift for him upon his

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Speaker 1: ascension to the sultancy. Okay Um, can you explain to

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Speaker 1: me a little more about a harem, because I got

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Speaker 1: an image in my head about a harem, and it

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Speaker 1: is probably incorrect. I bet it's a little racist. Um

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Speaker 1: and uh, it's probably in either case very stereotypical, probably

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Speaker 1: factually inaccurate. So let's talk harems. I'd love to talk

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Speaker 1: harems in a segment Harem Talk. So harems you're probably thinking,

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Speaker 1: are like hundreds of beautiful women that the Sultan can

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Speaker 1: just sunk at any time, right, That's what I was thinking, right,

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Speaker 1: And they're just laying around waiting to be slept, with

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Speaker 1: purple curtains, gold beads on their bellies. Sure right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the image in my head because I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: that old restaurant, Imperial Fez. That was such a cool

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Speaker 1: spot it was, and I think harem. I just think

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Speaker 1: of that restaurant, but with a lot more naked ladies,

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Speaker 1: a lot more naked ladies, yeah, and a lot less

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Speaker 1: white people right around. Well, you're right and you're wrong.

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Speaker 1: So a harem is made up not only of concubines,

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Speaker 1: but also wives, servants, female relatives of the sultan, and

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Speaker 1: of course unix very important part of the of the harem.

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Speaker 1: So not everybody in the harem is is having sex

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Speaker 1: with the Sultan. They're just like in the palace, running ship,

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Speaker 1: taking care of his home. The larger the harem, the

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Speaker 1: more power and wealth the sultan was seen to have.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they get up to the hundreds. Sue Lemon's princely

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Speaker 1: harem had about seventeen women in it. Most of the

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Speaker 1: men and women in their him are bought as slaves

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Speaker 1: to ensure obedience, but some were actually free. The main

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Speaker 1: wives were free women because you couldn't mary a slave,

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Speaker 1: so if you were a wife, you were not a slave. Um.

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Speaker 1: But everyone in the harem was given a quality education,

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Speaker 1: and afterwards, the men and women within the harem would

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Speaker 1: sometimes be married off to each other, so only a

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Speaker 1: small number of the women in the harem were actually

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Speaker 1: there for him to sleep with. Um. And they're governed

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Speaker 1: by the Valid Sultan, which is typically the sultan's mother.

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Speaker 1: She's the most powerful member of the harem. She runs

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Speaker 1: everybody in it, and they all looked to her Um,

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Speaker 1: and she was also responsible for educating her son on

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Speaker 1: the intricacies of politics. She was a member of the

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Speaker 1: imperial court, so she had kind of a lot of

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Speaker 1: power within the palace at least, and the next most

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Speaker 1: powerful positions in the harem where the concubines who rose

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Speaker 1: through the ranks, they would get titles like the favorite,

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Speaker 1: the fortunate, and the wife. Glenn close is that you?

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Speaker 1: And so these women held an equivalent rank to legal wives,

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Speaker 1: and they were given their own servants, their own apartments,

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Speaker 1: they were paid aid more an income they got like

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Speaker 1: a yearly income, and you would get more the more,

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Speaker 1: you know, higher up you were, So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a corporate ladder kind of action going on. Obviously, this

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Speaker 1: is all for the sake of reproduction. Right, he's sleeping

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Speaker 1: with a lot of women, because then you have better

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Speaker 1: odds of having a big family and one of them

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Speaker 1: attains their majority and are able to take over for you. Right.

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Speaker 1: But concubines were actually seen as more legitimate mothers of

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Speaker 1: airs because they had no influence over their sons. Legal

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Speaker 1: wives would jockey for power because they would improve their

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Speaker 1: own situation if their son became sultan, of course they

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Speaker 1: were then you know, in a higher position themselves. But

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Speaker 1: slave women had no none of that was recognized at all.

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Speaker 1: So if their son became sultan, it really meant nothing

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Speaker 1: to them. You know, had it had made no difference

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Speaker 1: to their lives whatsoever. So in the eyes of the

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Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire was better off to have an air by

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Speaker 1: a concubine than by a legal wife. Eunuchs were also

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Speaker 1: an important element to a harem. These were slaves who

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Speaker 1: were castrated, and it was important to note that there

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Speaker 1: were white and black slaves in the Ottoman Empire, but

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Speaker 1: they were still treated very differently. Black slaves would have

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Speaker 1: everything removed, what penis, antesticles, totally separated from their bodies,

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Speaker 1: and then they were put in charge of the harem

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Speaker 1: because they lacked the equipment to be, you know, interested

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Speaker 1: in women or be able to have sex with women.

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Speaker 1: Give me a break. White slaves only had a portion

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Speaker 1: of their penis removed and they wouldn't have access to

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Speaker 1: the harem at all. Eunuchs were usually castrated before puberty

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Speaker 1: by their Christian or Jewish captors because Islam actually prohibited

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Speaker 1: the act of castration. So you've got the sales people

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Speaker 1: basically bringing slaves from here to there, being like step

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Speaker 1: brought up, get you unpaid intens here right already castrated them,

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Speaker 1: so you ain't gotta worry about getting Yeah, it's dirty

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Speaker 1: with none of that. We catch them, we cut them,

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Speaker 1: you buy them. You know you need unique eunuchs. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were fine with having castrated slaves, but you couldn't

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Speaker 1: actually castrate them yourself. So similarly, female slaves often white

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Speaker 1: Christian girls, because it was forbidden for Muslim women to

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Speaker 1: be concubines. So some of them were captured like Roxalana.

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Speaker 1: Others were sold by their own families. Sometimes there's a

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Speaker 1: blog called Siddef's Corner. He says, though these practices seem

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Speaker 1: barbaric and impossible to understand for us, the sultan's harem

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Speaker 1: was a place for a young girl to receive a

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Speaker 1: thorough education in housekeeping, gardening, and languages, and live in

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Speaker 1: comfort and luxury. Some would get married off to high

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Speaker 1: ranking government officials and get a chance to head up

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Speaker 1: their own household. So it was almost like kind of

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Speaker 1: a career path in this fucked up way. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: that corporate ladder again. You know, it's it's so hard

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Speaker 1: to think about today, but you fuck your way to

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Speaker 1: the top essentially, right, Yeah, I don't know. It reminds

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Speaker 1: me a little bit of you know what we've talked

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Speaker 1: about in earlier episodes about you know, how women are

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Speaker 1: putting these situations where they're like kind of enslaved and

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Speaker 1: then told like, but it's good for you. Look how

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Speaker 1: many opportunities getting by being stuck in this situation. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a sticky area for sure, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's understandable. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: look look at all the opportunities you're being given. Also,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have in the free will to

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Speaker 1: make choices of your own. I don't know. At a

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Speaker 1: certain point in history that was a get you know,

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Speaker 1: that was like, oh cool, I have opportunities. I fucking

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Speaker 1: worried about being able to have choices to make on

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Speaker 1: my own. That's not something my brain is even considering. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can almost see like the fathers and mothers being like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna get fucked at some point in

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Speaker 1: your life. It should be the sultan if it's going

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Speaker 1: to be anybody, because that means you're gonna be taken

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Speaker 1: care of, You're gonna be in luxury if you have

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Speaker 1: a child by him, even if it's a girl, you

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Speaker 1: still are taken care of for your rest of your life.

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Speaker 1: And again, you're in this palace being fed really well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to really worry about a

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Speaker 1: lot of the normal ship that people out in the

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Speaker 1: streets were dealing with. So it might have seemed like

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Speaker 1: if you had a pretty enough daughter, Yeah it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a good choice for her um A weird job,

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Speaker 1: a strange, strange job. So into this Harems situation, Roxelana

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Speaker 1: walked right. She's this is the this is what she's

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Speaker 1: getting herself into at this point. And I do want

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Speaker 1: to say her legacy is a little bit shrouded in

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Speaker 1: hearsay and mystery because you weren't allowed to see any

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Speaker 1: of these women outside of the palace. They weren't allowed

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Speaker 1: to leave, you weren't allowed to talk to them or

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Speaker 1: anything like that if you were, especially if you were

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Speaker 1: a man um. So there's no like firsthand accounts of

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Speaker 1: her life. A lot of this is just legend or

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Speaker 1: gossip that was written at the time. But it seems

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Speaker 1: safe to say that while she was only fifteen years old,

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Speaker 1: she was pretty determined to make this situation work for her.

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Speaker 1: So let's pause there and take a quick commercial break,

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Speaker 1: and we'll hear how she did that. Right after this

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Speaker 1: Welcome back everybody. I hope that was a lovely commercial break.

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Speaker 1: We're here talking about Roxelana. So Roxalana was probably born

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Speaker 1: Alexandra Lizzaus, but she was called rock Salana because of

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Speaker 1: her red hair. She's depicted in paintings as having white skin,

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Speaker 1: red hair, and green eyes. But they always point out

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Speaker 1: no painter ever actually saw any of the women in

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Speaker 1: the Harem, Like we said, that was totally forbidden. So

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Speaker 1: most of these depictions were probably based on gossip. So

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Speaker 1: inside the Harem, there's several different classes of women that

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Speaker 1: you could be. There's the ickballs. They were like chambermaids.

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Speaker 1: They still had to be beautiful. That everyone had to

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Speaker 1: be pretty, all had to be I candy. Um. But

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just looks that made a cortisan the Sultan's favorite.

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Speaker 1: There's beautiful women all over the palace at all times,

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Speaker 1: so you needed something extra to kind of stand out. Um,

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Speaker 1: you need personality, honey, you gotta have a gimmick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have a gimmick. What's your angle? What's your angle?

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Speaker 1: There were giddick who did not sleep with the Sultan,

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Speaker 1: but they just served him food in the evenings and

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Speaker 1: they basically just had to be hot and that's it.

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Speaker 1: Like they were just like hot serve cocktail waitresses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the champions, yeah, and then the lowest tier were women

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Speaker 1: who hadn't really been selected yet. They were just there

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Speaker 1: for a one night stand to see how it went. Wow,

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Speaker 1: being trained at the restaurant. So the head bitch and

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Speaker 1: charged the valid Sultan. She gets to arrange the sultan

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Speaker 1: schedule with all these women, so the girls are really

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Speaker 1: trying to get in with her, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Because the more you see the sultan, the more you

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Speaker 1: sleep with sultan, the more likely you are to get

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Speaker 1: pregnant by the Sultan. And if you have a son,

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Speaker 1: that means not only you're his favorite and you get

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Speaker 1: more power, more income, nicer ship, all that stuff, but

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Speaker 1: also it meant they would never sleep with them again.

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Speaker 1: It was a one and done rule with concubines because

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Speaker 1: they didn't want you to have more than one son

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Speaker 1: that you would be trying to put above the other

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Speaker 1: one or something. They were like, you get one and

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Speaker 1: that's it. So it was kind of like, sweet, I

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Speaker 1: can retire to have a son was the retirement plan.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit weird because it's his mom,

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Speaker 1: So the mom's basically picking out who her son's going

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Speaker 1: to sleep with that night. So I don't know about

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Speaker 1: you all, but that would be odd for me to

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Speaker 1: have my mom be like how about this one. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Your mom called me as she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, out of all the guys Diana is hanging

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Speaker 1: out with, you're you're the straight one. You're the straight one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. That's true, And it was pointed out. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he's still the sultan. So if there's a woman he

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Speaker 1: sees in the palace, whether his mom likes her or not,

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Speaker 1: and he wants to sleep with her, she's he's going

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Speaker 1: to sleep with her, right, I mean, you know, but

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Speaker 1: mostly he didn't see them unless she arranged for him

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Speaker 1: to see them because they had their own area of

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Speaker 1: the palace and everything. So anyway, long story short, you

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Speaker 1: needed to be in with this valid sultan. You wanted

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Speaker 1: her to like you, and then after the mom died,

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Speaker 1: the sultan's wife would rule the hare him. So you're

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Speaker 1: probably pretty nice to whoever his current favorite was as well,

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Speaker 1: just in case you know what I mean to be like, Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: when if the valid sultan doesn't like me. Now, maybe

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Speaker 1: the next one will of friends with her kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: If your hedge and bets on who he's going to marry.

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Speaker 1: It's like a real mean girls society kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: I was just about to say, like, this is like

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Speaker 1: a real stressful cafeteria situation. Yeah. Yeah. And and Suleman especially,

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Speaker 1: it's not like he was one of these useless rulers

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Speaker 1: who was just laying around waiting for the next woman

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Speaker 1: to come in and fuck him. Like this was a

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Speaker 1: busy guy he was. He was doing things pretty constantly,

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Speaker 1: so that was part of it too, of just like

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Speaker 1: you know, he that's part of why he was waiting

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Speaker 1: to be sent you know what other whatever woman was

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Speaker 1: decided for that particular night, because it wasn't like he

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Speaker 1: was just lounging around hanging out with them and saying

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Speaker 1: all right, you can stay in the rest of you

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Speaker 1: leave or anything like that. Yeah, And she the lead sultan,

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Speaker 1: would be like, I'm looking for the best of the

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Speaker 1: best because the people who sleep with him are the

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Speaker 1: people were trying to get to reproduce with him, So

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Speaker 1: we want only the best. So that's why the education

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Speaker 1: really matters that they're getting and Roxalana, like the other

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Speaker 1: girls that Suleman's mother had her eye on, got this

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Speaker 1: great education. She learned to play instruments. I mean they

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Speaker 1: were all taught to dance and recite poetry and literature, geography,

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Speaker 1: history like calligraphy, all the subjects, right, all the subjects

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Speaker 1: that we never got in public school. And of course

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Speaker 1: they had to learned the art of eroticism and seduction.

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Speaker 1: They had to be sexperts to keep the sultan interested

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Speaker 1: while they were in debt, and they had to be

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Speaker 1: smart and witty enough to keep them entertained. You know,

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Speaker 1: she couldn't be some boring, walking hot piece of ass.

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Speaker 1: You had to you had to have something to say

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Speaker 1: to or at least be able to hold up a

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Speaker 1: fun conversation. And again, you know, you're trying to build

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Speaker 1: the next Sultan at this person, so you want someone

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Speaker 1: who can grasp some ship, right, Yeah, so it's not

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Speaker 1: just about looks, right, And by all accounts, Roxelana was

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Speaker 1: very intelligent. She had a really great temperament. She was

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Speaker 1: pretty joyful, and that got her her name hum or

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Speaker 1: cheerful one. And it didn't take long for the Sultan

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Speaker 1: to fall in love with her. Apparently he's love with

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Speaker 1: her once. Wow, it never stopped, that was it. She

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Speaker 1: became like the number one choice pretty quickly, and he

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Speaker 1: kind of neglected pretty much the entire rest of the

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Speaker 1: harem for her. So of course she got pregnant pretty early.

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Speaker 1: She ended up having a son, Mehmed, the next year,

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Speaker 1: and then, defying two hundred years of tradition, he continued

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Speaker 1: to sleep with her and she had five more kids

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Speaker 1: with him. Remember the whole idea is that concubines only

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Speaker 1: had one son each. That was the rule because they

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Speaker 1: didn't want multiple sons jockeying for power, right, But Suleiman

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Speaker 1: was so into here him he didn't really care about

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Speaker 1: you know, these traditions. They seemed silly to him. At

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Speaker 1: this point. He's like, no, I love this woman. This

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Speaker 1: is it. We're gonna keep sleeping together. Sure, we got kids,

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Speaker 1: uh raising a family. We're gonna get a dog, i'n

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Speaker 1: put a fence up, you know, we're gonna go to

394
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Speaker 1: Little League games. Different culture, but yeah, this came as

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Speaker 1: a bit of a surprise for Suleman's first favorite, mahadevn Um.

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Speaker 1: She was the mother to his first son, Mustafa, so

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Speaker 1: she was the favorite. She was the wife. She was

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Speaker 1: in fact still called his first wife even while he

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Speaker 1: was neglecting her for her M. So she would have

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Speaker 1: been higher in the harem when her M got there,

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Speaker 1: but she was quickly usurped and it did not like again.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't even a full year before he was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm done with the rest of you all. So Maha

404
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: Devon had been with him since he was a prince,

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Speaker 1: and she had his baby and everything when he was

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Speaker 1: a prince, but then got shunted to the side. And

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Speaker 1: that brings us to this episode's side piece. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: Not that much is known about Mahadevran, but as I said,

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Speaker 1: she was in his princely harem when he was the

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Speaker 1: governor of Menissa. He brought her back to Constantinople with him,

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Speaker 1: and her name meant one whose beauty never fades in Persian.

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Speaker 1: She had his first son, Mustafa, So she's enjoying this nice,

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Speaker 1: wage comfy palace life as the favorite until her M

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00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: comes along. And this Venetian Ambassador Cardinal Bernardo Naviguero wrote

415
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: that a bitter rivalry sprang up between the two women,

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Speaker 1: resulting in Mahadevrin attacking and beating her M, which displeased Suleiman,

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Speaker 1: so he banished her back to Menissa with her son Mustafa.

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Speaker 1: But Turkish historians say that it's not true. That was

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Speaker 1: just some nonsense uh spread around, probably to make her

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Speaker 1: M look like an asshole, because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: tried that over the years, and it was actually common

422
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: practice for the mother to accompany her son when he

423
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: was given governorship of a province. So Mustafa was like Suleman.

424
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: He was one of the older sons. He was given

425
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: this big province, Menissa to deal with in the regular

426
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: course of things, and she went with him normally. Was

427
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: not like a banishment. But history loves a cat fight,

428
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: So yeah, her M had five sons and one daughter

429
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 1: with Suleman over the next decade. During that time, she

430
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: continued her education and diplomacy and the Ottoman language, mathematics, history, alchemy,

431
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: She learned how to make perfume, and she also started

432
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: to influence politics. At this point, right, she becomes one

433
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: of Suleiman's most trusted advisers, and she starts handling foreign

434
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: affairs and international politics in this like totally unprecedented way

435
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: for a concubine, especially she would sit and watch council

436
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: meetings through this wire mesh window. So I guess she

437
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: was like, was she sneaking in to watch them? Or

438
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: was she like I'm sure they knew about it. I

439
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: think he knew that she was. It was just like,

440
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: you just can't be in here. But well, they can't

441
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: see her. I see. It's even more like it's funny

442
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: because it feels like, oh, it's this prison that you

443
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: keep these women in, but it was almost like for

444
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: their protection or something, and like they're so beautiful that

445
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 1: you don't get to see them. They're just for me,

446
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: the sultan. Yeah, they could see you, but you can't

447
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: see them. They're like the shadow. People don't look over there.

448
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: So she watched these council meetings and she over saw

449
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: massive construction projects. Even one time she wrote a letter

450
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: to the King of Poland just to congratulate him on

451
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: his ascension to the throne and express hope for a

452
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: peaceful relationship between them, and then she created this Polish

453
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: Ottoman alliance. Apparently he wrote back a very gracious reply

454
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: that she would be the first and only female sultan

455
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: to exchange letters with a king. Yeah, after her, the

456
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: female sultans would correspond with queens maybe, but never kings.

457
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: This was a one and done situation. Crimean historians say

458
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: that she actually intervened to control tad Our slave rating too. Basically,

459
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: her m was running ship while Suleman was away on

460
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: military campaigns. He was expanding the empire and she was

461
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: just handling it like a boss back home, and she

462
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: became his eyes and ears while he was gone. She's

463
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: just smart, not idle. She was really interested in a

464
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: lot of different things. I mean, people really paint this

465
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: is like she was this grasping, ambitious, cunning woman, But

466
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: to me, she kind of reads more like someone who's

467
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: just super interested and smart and was like probably telling

468
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: him like, well, why don't you do this? And he

469
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it's a damn good idea. Why

470
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: don't I do that? Why don't I these dudes ever

471
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: think of that ship? Why don't you listen in on

472
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: a wire through that wire mesh window and tell me

473
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: what I should do? You know what I mean? Like,

474
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: I think she just had good ideas that he was like,

475
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: I'm into it. It really like hearkens back to me

476
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: our very first episode, Madame de Pompadour I thought about her,

477
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: like with with someone who just like came in and

478
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, my whole job is to marry the

479
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: ruler and be his wife or girlfriend. But while I'm here,

480
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: I'm no idiot, and I'm actually engaged and I'm interested,

481
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: and I'm going to apply all of my knowledge and

482
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: be a part of things and not just kind of

483
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: be a wallflower here. Well, and like pompadour, Harem cared

484
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: about the kingdom, right, So I think the other thing

485
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: that frustrates me about people being like, oh, she was

486
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: just grasping for power is that it's like there's no

487
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: women in the world who give a funk about their

488
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: own country, do you know what I mean? I was

489
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: like I she was really like, well, I care about

490
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: the empire just like anybody else, and I have some

491
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: good ideas. So let me. I'm going to come in

492
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: here and do whatever I can to help. You know,

493
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: my husband run this insane empire that he's dub anyway,

494
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: you draw your own conclusions. In fifteen thirty three, Mustafa

495
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: is given his governor position of Menissa Mahadevran and Mustafa

496
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: leave the palace, and in fifteen thirty four Suleiman's mother,

497
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: Hafsa Sultan, the valid Sultan. She dies, so now her

498
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: RIM's in charge of the harem. She's the hbi c

499
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: also within the heron, so essentially she's running the entire palace.

500
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: She's domestic, Uh, domestic and international affairs all in one.

501
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: Are they married? No? Not legally, she's called a wife

502
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: because she had a son. If they had a wife,

503
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: if they had a son, they were called a wife,

504
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: but they weren't actually the sultan's wife like the queen

505
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: kind of. But she kind of was like, you know what,

506
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: I want to marry the Sultan. I want to I

507
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: want to marry him. So she asks him, can I

508
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: learn about Islam because I've I really want to convert.

509
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, she's an Orthodox Christian when she was enslaved,

510
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: and so she's like, you know, I just really it's

511
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: calling my name, this religion. And he's thrilled. He's so excited.

512
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: In fact, he decided to free her so because he

513
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: was so happy. Um, so she's, I know, you didn't

514
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: think of that before. So she's not a slave anymore,

515
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 1: which means she actually can get married because before that

516
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: she couldn't obviously, So uh, you're my girlfriend and the

517
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: mother of my five children. Maybe it's about time I

518
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: make you not a slave anymore more than Thomas Jefferson

519
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: ever did. Happy Fourth of July anyway, So then she

520
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: converts to Islam. She she does her studies, she gets

521
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: through them whatever, she converts to Islam. And then she

522
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: tells Suleiman, well, now I'm a Muslim, and that means

523
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: I can't sleep with a man who's not my husband,

524
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: so sorry, you can't come in, bars him from her room,

525
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: and apparently it worked according to ancient origins. He resisted

526
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: for three days, but then married her in a magnificent

527
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: ceremony and she became her im Sultan. Amazing. I love it.

528
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: The steps are pretty funny, um, and she broke tradition

529
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: yet again by remaining at the palace for the rest

530
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: of her life instead of following any of her sons

531
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: to their governorships, because he didn't want her to go anywhere.

532
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: He put her close. Yeah. So all this power and

533
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: influence totally shocked everybody. And they hadn't seen this before.

534
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: I mean, a slave had risen to the heights of

535
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: becoming a legal wife of the sultan. This woman is

536
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: running the show and people are just mind blown, and

537
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: rumors start circulating that her m was a witch who

538
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: had put sulim On under a spell because of course,

539
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: which which you are a witch. Any time a woman

540
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: applies herself and get something done in history, she's got

541
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: to be a witch. Which and then if she's a witch,

542
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: that means that she's controlling people with her magic powers

543
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: and causing them to do terrible things. Just that that

544
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: cycle back again. Which I'm not saying women don't have magic,

545
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: because we do, sure, but it's not like that. It's

546
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: not like you can snap your fingers and the dishes

547
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: you're done, right, That would be some magic, some bewitched magic.

548
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: That would be pretty man, right, little Samantha action in here. Well,

549
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: my first, my first crush, Samantha. Yeah, Elizabeth Montgomery, I'm bewitched.

550
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: I actually never saw be Witched. I saw the Nicole

551
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: Kidman movie I didn't make, and it was not good.

552
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: Well that doesn't surprise me, even though she's great normally,

553
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a very good movie. Yeah. No, Samantha

554
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: on Bewitched was my first crush on TV. She was lovely. Anyway,

555
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: people are freaking out, they're calling her a witch. But

556
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: Leslie Pierce, who's the author of Empress at the East

557
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: European slave Girl became Queen of the Ottoman Empire, points

558
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: out that other powerful women were also emerging in politics

559
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, like Anne Boleyn and

560
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: Isabella the First of Castile. So she speculates Sultan probably

561
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: wanted a European style queen to rule beside him, but

562
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: it's just as likely that he really did love her

563
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: m and value her perspective and advice. If anything, I

564
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe those just coincided, that's true. It might

565
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: have been like, not only is my heart in this,

566
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: but the politics makes sense. Yeah, like I really want

567
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: to fall in love with a white European wife, and

568
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: then like, oh ship, I did look you mean, I

569
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: mean that's it seems. It sounds like it sounds like

570
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: a movie we'd see, right, like this the rom com

571
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: the Sultans, Like, you know, I have to fall in

572
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: love with this woman, so I have to marry this woman.

573
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: You can, you know, it's good for the empire. But

574
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: then they actually fall in love, you know, and it'll

575
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: be Scarlett Johansson as as sparks Lana and Scarlett Johansson

576
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: as Sultan sule Matt perfect perfect. But I also think

577
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: it's interesting because it just kind of discounts the cultural difference.

578
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: I feel like that, like as sultan would want a

579
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: European style queen, Like, I'm not sure that they really

580
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: would have seen it the same way, like that that

581
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: was a thing that was working for Europe, you know

582
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm not sure that they would have

583
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: felt the same way, just considering how they were feeling

584
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: about one son per woman and that sort of thing.

585
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: It's just a completely different setup. But I thought it

586
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: was interesting anyway. And the way that they wrote to

587
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: each other is some evidence of their actual passion for

588
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: one another. Um here Rim wrote him letters all the time,

589
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: because again she's his eyes and ears, so she was

590
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: writing him news of the palace and stuff, and she

591
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: would sometimes be like, right back to me, it's not

592
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: just about me want to hear from you. I need

593
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: to let people know you're still alive and doing fine,

594
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, because otherwise they're gonna start some ship. But

595
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: she also wrote stuff like if you ask about me,

596
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: your servant who has caught fire from the zeal of

597
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: missing you, I am like the one who's liver in

598
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: this case meaning heart has been broiled, whose chest has

599
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: been ruined, whose eyes are filled with tears, who cannot

600
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: distinguish anymore between night and day, who has fallen into

601
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: the sea of yearning, desperate, mad with your love, this

602
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: passionate love of yours, Your slave is burning because I

603
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: have been separated from you, So he wrote back to her,

604
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: At last, we shall unite in souls, in thoughts, in imagination,

605
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: in will, in heart, in everything that I have left

606
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: of mine, in your and have taken you with me, Oh,

607
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: my only love. And he's also a renowned poet. He

608
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: has some verses that are still quoted to this day

609
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 1: in in Turkey, and their mutual love for poetry might

610
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: have been one of the first things that he liked

611
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: about her, especially because when they got together to sleep

612
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: together the first time, I guess they probably talked about

613
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: what they were into, how a little date, and then

614
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: they ended up just being like, oh, you like poetry

615
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: to let's just talk poetry. And he actually wrote a

616
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: poem for Harnt, So let's go on down to poetry

617
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: corner and hear what the layman has to say about

618
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: his loved one, throne of my lonely niche, my wealth,

619
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: my love, my moonlight, my most sincere friend, my confidante,

620
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: my very existence, my sultan, my one and only love,

621
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: the most beautiful among the beautiful, my springtime, my merry

622
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: faced love, my daytime, my sweetheart, laughing leaf, my plants,

623
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: my sweet my rose. The only one who does not

624
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: distress me in this world, My Istanbul, my Karaman, the

625
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: earth of my Anatolia, my Badakshan, my Baghdad and Khorassan,

626
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: my woman of the beautiful hair, my love of the

627
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: slanted brow, my love of eyes full of mischief. I'll

628
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: sing your praise as always, I lover of the tormented heart,

629
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: Wuhibi of the eyes full of tears. I am happy.

630
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: I mean they seemed pretty hot for each other. Is

631
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: a yeah, yeah's little horn dogs. But the only one

632
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: who does not distress me. I mean that that can

633
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: be enough. That's a lot. That's a lot. I mean,

634
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: even you're not the only one who does not distress me.

635
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: There is no only one who does not distress. That's true.

636
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: Your state, new state distress. Yeah, it's my natural state.

637
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: He does call it Istanbul. Was it not Constantinople. At

638
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: this it is Istanbul, not Constantinople. It's been a long

639
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: time con since it was Constantinople. Well why did Constantinople

640
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: get the way? If you're asking me why constantin all

641
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: we got the works, I don't want to hear it,

642
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: because honestly, it's not our business. Actually, the Turks called

643
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: it Istanbul themselves since the fourteen fifties when the city

644
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: fell to the Ottomans, but Christians and people in the

645
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: West continue to call it Constantinople until the name is

646
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: Stanbul was officially adopted in nineteen thirty. So it's not

647
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: my business. But I did find out anyway, Well, if

648
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: you have a date from Constantinople, she'll be waiting in Istanbul. Yeah. Well, anyway,

649
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: by they might be giants albums and then whatever. I

650
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: guess they're about to sell you during this commercial break,

651
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to the show. So anyway, her

652
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: ms image is only getting worse in the Kingdom because

653
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: of some political shenanigans that she has blamed for orchestrating.

654
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: Of course. So first of all, sue Lehman's grand vizier

655
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: was named Ibrahim Pasha. He had known Slemon since they

656
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: were young, and su Lemon had made him a royal

657
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: falconer and then promoted him to vizier in Okay, send

658
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: me through history, right, don't. I don't get to pick,

659
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: but um roll the dice. I'm getting thrown into history

660
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: to be anybody at any time. There's a couple of

661
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: positions that I want. But royal falconer is up there.

662
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: I got my fingers crossed. That's a pretty good job.

663
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: The guy who's got the falcon all at all times.

664
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's pretty cool, right, I mean, not

665
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: particular guy, ye know, the falconer. Probably more than one

666
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: falcon too, probably aviarrea falcons, But you've always got one

667
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: on your arm. Sure, right, that's my that's my whole

668
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: thing hanging on the glove. If I didn't have one,

669
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: people be like, where's your falcon? No, I got it

670
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: all the time. Or I'd be like, well, he's scouting,

671
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: she's she's probably she. I feel like, I don't know why.

672
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: I just feel like falcon females are probably better hunters.

673
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know any um any ornithologists

674
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: out there. Let me know if male or female falcons

675
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: are preferred for a falconer to have on their forearm. Anyway, Well,

676
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: Abraham might have been a great falconer, but he was

677
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: definitely a good diplomat. Um. He achieved quite a lot,

678
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: and he actually married the granddaughter the man who enslaved

679
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: him as a child um, which is kind of kind

680
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: of dope to me, and it elevated him to the

681
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: Ottoman elite. But he got a little arrogant and he

682
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: started kind of acting like he were the true power

683
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: behind the Sultan, sometimes even called himself the Sultan while

684
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: he was out and the provinces and stuff. So the

685
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: story is that her Ram did not like that, and

686
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: she convinced Suleman to have him executed. But there's there's

687
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: another story that Suleman himself was worried about that kind

688
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: of grandstanding and he went and consulted a judge and

689
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: the judge told him the best way to handle this

690
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: is to put this man to death. So, either way,

691
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: whether it was her Ram or a judge, Ibrahim was

692
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: strangled in his sleep in fifteen thirty six, and people

693
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: started to be like, oh, ship, her Rim is cold blooded.

694
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: She is making all these murders happen out of nowhere

695
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, and they said that she did

696
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: it because Abraham supported Mahadevran's son Mustafa as Air, and

697
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 1: her Ram was worried about her own sons. She wanted

698
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: them to get the job, so she just wanted to

699
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: get everybody who supported Mustafa out of the way. Because

700
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: see the way that it worked here was there was

701
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: no official succession. You might be first in line, but

702
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you're gonna be the best. Each son

703
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: would try to gain power and popularity during their governorships,

704
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: and if they were selected to succeed their father, they

705
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: would actually kill every one of their brothers. The leman

706
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: did not have to do it this because I was like, oh, Ship,

707
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: Suleiman must have killed all his brothers, But actually all

708
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: his brothers had already died by the time his father died,

709
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: so he was only one left, so he never had

710
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: to do this lucky, right, But every other sultan did.

711
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't have any type of game of thrones

712
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: like house trail, house lanister ship like that about who

713
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: was the real heir, because they'd all be dead, right,

714
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: you just wipe them out before it starts to be

715
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: a problem. But it's gonna like guarantee chaos. Obviously, this

716
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: guy be Aside the first and he died in fourteen

717
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: oh three. His four sons started a decade long civil

718
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: war over who was going to succeed him and the men.

719
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: The third was cround in and he had all nineteen

720
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: of his brothers come into the throne room. His dad

721
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: didn't collect the harem. His dad was taken care of it.

722
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 1: Nineteen brothers, so he brings them all in. He says,

723
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: nothing to worry about. You're all just here to get circumcised,

724
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: which is like a big deal. Hey, brothers, I I

725
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: need you in the other room here real quick. Oh no,

726
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: this sounds just seems like a bad news. No, no, no,

727
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. It's just a quick circumcision for

728
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: everyone to line them up, so it's no big deal.

729
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: But then they go into the room for the operation

730
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: and they were all strangled by assassins, which I mean,

731
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: it's just like I'm expecting a circumcision and I get

732
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: strangle to death instead. I don't know if that's a

733
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: win or what I'm thinking about, because apparently they win

734
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: in one by one, so I'm thinking about, you know,

735
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: like by the fourth or fifth, I'd be like, well,

736
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: where are they. They're not coming back out there in

737
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: the recovery room. There's some in there. They put nice

738
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: on it. Don't worry, don't worry. Circumcision. An Austrian ambassador

739
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: once wrote to the Empire and he said, the sons

740
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: of Turkish sultan's are in the most wretched position in

741
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: the world, for as soon as one of them succeeds

742
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: his father, the rest are doomed to certain death. The

743
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: conduct of the janissaries, who they were like the Sultan's

744
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: elite army corps. Their conduct renders it impossible for the

745
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: new sultan to spare his brothers. So basically, if any

746
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: of them survived, the brothers, then the janisaries that basically

747
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: keep asking the Sultan for raises, and if they didn't

748
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: get them, they'd be like, well then I'm gonna go

749
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: get the brother and help him rise to the throne.

750
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: So there's just this constant threat if you have any

751
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: brothers alive, the one of them can just come take

752
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: your place. So it became this like source of leverage

753
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: for the janissaries, So it was smarter basically just ruthlessly

754
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: murder every single one of your brothers, which is outrageous

755
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: to me for for so many reasons, because not only

756
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: what they're talking about here about once you're the sultan

757
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: you have all these threats, but also like before that,

758
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: if you have any contact with those brothers, why would

759
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: you not be scheming to get rid of them so

760
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: that you could be the one to go and charge.

761
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: So I feel like you've already got that element in

762
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: that sort of monarchy where it's like, if you have

763
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: multiple princes, one of them is already going to have

764
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: in the back of his mind like I should scheme

765
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: to make myself the king instead of my older brother.

766
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: Then add on top of that, not only if my

767
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: older brother gets to be king, will I not be king,

768
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: but also I'll get murdered by him. It just becomes

769
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: a who can kill who first situation and just really

770
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: pits people against each other. It's weird too, because they

771
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: would grow up in the harem together with the mother's

772
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like, I mean, there's some real

773
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: brotherly feeling, but it's in the law, like they probably

774
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: knew from a very young age. Yeah, this is the law.

775
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: One y'all gonna be killed one day, by your brother.

776
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: So as Suleiman is aging, both Maha Devan and her

777
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: Am are looking out for their son's best interests. Unfortunately

778
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: for her m Mustafa is super popular with the army

779
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: and with the general population, and they kind of really

780
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: want him to take over, but of course she wants

781
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: one of her sons, Selim or be AzID to get

782
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: the job. So it becomes a pretty sticky situation. And

783
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: again this is uh this is the hot gass around

784
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: around Istanbul, but not proven. The story is that Harem

785
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: went to her daughter Mirama, who was married to Rustim Pasha,

786
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: who was Sleiman's grand viziers since fifteen forty four, and

787
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 1: she's like, Mirama, we gotta get a whisper campaign going

788
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: about Mustafa to destabilize him. He's getting too popular. So

789
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: in fifteen forty nine there's these rumors that Mustafa's life

790
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: is in danger because of Hiram and Rustem's court alliance

791
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: against him. They there was some plot to make him

792
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: look like a trader where Rustem wrote a letter to

793
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: the Shah of Iran using Mustafa's seal, and then when

794
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: the Shah wrote back, Rustem showed the reply to Sleiman

795
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: like Oh, look at who your son's writing to the enemy.

796
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: This bitch just plotting against you. But around the same time,

797
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: Mustafa is given a better governor position. He gets a

798
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: bigger province to rule over as a reward for all

799
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: his great work in the war, all the wars that

800
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: he's fighting to expand the kingdom and everything. So he

801
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: kind of plays off these rumors. He's like, I ain't

802
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: worried about it. I'm leading campaigns, I'm kicking ass I'm

803
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: getting rewarded. I mean, everything seems to be going fine

804
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: for me. So these rumors are just nonsense. I'm not

805
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: worried about them. But then in fifteen three were stems like, hey,

806
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: your dad's armies halted in Persia, why don't we go

807
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: join him? Bring your army with you. He'd love to

808
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: see you. And at the same time, he's telling Sleiman

809
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: that Mustafa is about to march on him to kill

810
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: him and replace him. So when he shows up with

811
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: his army, it looks like he's, you know, coming for

812
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: some business. So Mustafa walks into his father's tent like, hey, Dad,

813
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: what's up? Showed up with some backup, and he gets

814
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: immediately attacked and after a long struggle. He is killed

815
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: by ristems right hand man, and apparently Mahadevrin had tried

816
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: to warn him, warned Mustafa about this, but he ignored

817
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: her message. So anyway, answer the phone when your mama

818
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: calls you. People are super piste off, of course, because

819
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: Mustafa's so popular, and they're like, Haram plotted this whole thing.

820
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: This is a conspiracy. This is not cool. We're not

821
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: happy about this. But Suleiman is of course like, well,

822
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: let me try and chill out everybody here. Let me

823
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: try and cool this thing off, lower the temperature in

824
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: the room here a little bit. So he has Mustafa

825
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: laid out in state at the palace and then laid

826
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: to rest in a nice mausoleum, and he dismisses Rustem

827
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: as his vizier. After a couple of years he ended

828
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: up bringing him back though, so not too bad for Rustem.

829
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: But this conspiracy was never really proven, like Mustafa's guilt

830
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: was never proven or disproven. It's all kind of hearsay.

831
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: There's a English professor at the Sales University, Galina Yermilinko,

832
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: who says that the story helps cement the West's view

833
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: of ram As cold and calculating, serving as a cautionary

834
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: detail to princes who might want powerful women in their courts.

835
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: So it could be a lot of like political reasons

836
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: for making her look so ambitious and grasping. So it's

837
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: just more men being like, don't trust a smart woman.

838
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: You know she'll she'll stab me on the back of

839
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: the second she gets chance. Outrageous. Yeah, yeah, just to

840
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: say that it was not only for the Ottoman Empires

841
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: politics but also European politics that they were like, yeah,

842
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: let's make her rim look like a real right, right,

843
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: but let's look at who she was. I mean, her

844
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: philanthropy pretty much made that look like bullshit. Right. She

845
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: was all about like helping the poor and commissioning schools,

846
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: She built mosques, she had a women's hospital made that

847
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: was still in operation today. She also established a soup

848
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: kitchen that fed like five people twice a day. And

849
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: her personality too, like she was joyful and smiling, candid,

850
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: she was open hearted. That was her whole thing. Just

851
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: a sweet baby. Yeah, so it doesn't really jive with

852
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: this kind of picture they tried to paint of her

853
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: as being this schemer, but you know, hey, maybe that

854
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: was part of the gig. Maybe that was how she

855
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: pulled it off. Speculation, right. She's like, oh, I would

856
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: never do this myself, but maybe the best thing is

857
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: to just execute Abraham Pasha. How sad would that be?

858
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: I know he's so close to you. Anyway, how about

859
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: let's read some poetry while you think it over. He's like,

860
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: that's pretty. It seems kind of cruel. But she couldn't

861
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: be cruel. She's got a soup kitchen. She's like, you know,

862
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: it would be fun. Let's strangle your firstborn son. I

863
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: think that would be super cool. You are a very

864
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: sweet girl, so it must be the right thing to do.

865
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: You have never led me wrong before now, I mean,

866
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, take your pick. But I choose to believe

867
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: that she was actually super chill and cool and not

868
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: a conniving murderer. Maybe a little both. I don't know.

869
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: But the murder of Mustapha did start a little civil war,

870
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: civil war, the Wolflibal war between her son's Selim and

871
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: Bayazide about who would succeed the Suleiman. Even though Sleiman

872
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: is not dead yet or anything like that. He's still

873
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: kicking right um. But they're still trying to figure out

874
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: who's going to be next. And actually her youngest son

875
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: died of grief over Mustafa being killed, which I thought

876
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: was interesting knowing again, you know, knowing that he probably

877
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: would have been killed by Mustafa and he had succeeded

878
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: the tone. Um. But again, I think it kind of

879
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: speaks to the family feeling that still existed amongst them.

880
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Because even though you'd

881
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: be like, I know how it works, that's still my

882
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: brother and I'm sad, I guess or speculation station there's

883
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: a civil war going on between Selim and be a Zide.

884
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: What if they're like one of them is like, funk,

885
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: we got a younger brother too. Um, Like, I don't

886
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: want this to turn into a three way battle. Let's

887
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: kind of let's try and nip this in the bud,

888
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: so to speak. So yeah, oops, he died of grief.

889
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: I just went into the room to see him for

890
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: a second, and then he just died of grief right

891
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: in front of me. I don't know, he was definitely

892
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: crying anyway we died, It seemed to really be grieving

893
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: and then just dropped dead. So don't know, I've certainly

894
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: that's my own speculation I've never seen it anywhere, but no,

895
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: I feel like it would have been found out, possibly

896
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: in some way, but it's totally possible. Died of grief

897
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: just seems like a real stretch. In April of fifty eight,

898
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: Herem died. She was buried in a domed mausoleum decorated

899
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: with exquisite is Nick tiles depicting the Garden of Paradise

900
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: that was commissioned by Suleman and built by the Royal

901
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: architect me Marsonan. And it was said that Suleman was

902
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: so sad that he was unable to enjoy life ever

903
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: again after his wife passed away. That could also be

904
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: because life wasn't super enjoyable though. He was very old

905
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 1: and sickly, and he supported Selim against his brother Beyazide

906
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: in fifteen fifty nine. Beyazide was defeated and executed and

907
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: Selim status as the Air was solidified. Suliman was also

908
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: fighting other fights to expand the Ottoman Empire in Hungary.

909
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: Kind of a grind like, especially when he didn't have

910
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: this lovely, aful wife to lighten the mood, right the

911
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: right in street letters. Yeah, just a lot of fighting

912
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: and winning and stuff and it's just like, you know,

913
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: guns complaining about each other, just fying for power. I mean,

914
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: that's not fun. That's hard to live a tough, good

915
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: life anyway. And then in September fifteen sixty six, Suleiman

916
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: died in his tent the night before a battle. His

917
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: Grand Vizir kept it a secret, and the Ottomans won.

918
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: So these two literally changed the Ottoman Empire forever. Their

919
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: relationship super important to history. Um because obviously Stu Lehman

920
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: expanded the empire around through military and diplomatic victories. He

921
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: changed the legal system to be more fair and less bloody,

922
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: and his patronage of the arts ushered in the Ottoman

923
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: Golden Age, and her rims unprecedented power ushered in the

924
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: reign of women, which is when imperial consorts had a

925
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: lot more political power and influence than they ever had before.

926
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: And that was all started by her. She changed completely

927
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: the role of a favorite consort and of a legal wife,

928
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: and as Leslie Pearce says, brought women right to the

929
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: heart of government. I would like to ussure in a

930
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: ragin of women. I know, if only there was a

931
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: rim today, well at least right through the House like

932
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: a rain of women had just passed through through our house. Yeah,

933
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: a personal reign of women, Like I'd like it. It's

934
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: about it's always raining men, was it? When is it

935
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: going to rain women? Women? It doesn't fit. It doesn't

936
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: fit the cadence of the song. That's the problem. That's why,

937
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: that's why she picked. She was like, rain and oh no,

938
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: it's rain and women. No, it doesn't fit. I guess

939
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: it's gonna be men. She's like, and it's raining girls.

940
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: That's creepy. So yeah, it just goes to show you

941
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: don't have to be a giant bitch to give what

942
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: you want. You don't have to be a searcy lanister.

943
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: Her Ram got what she wanted because she was smart

944
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: and friendly and fun to be around. And I think

945
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: that's cool. I think that's unusual in history. You know,

946
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: usually it's about who's the most bloody, murderous piece of ship,

947
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: And this time I was like, you know what, this

948
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: cheerful girl is smart and I like her. Let's listen

949
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: to her and let her have what she wants. Sue

950
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: Lehman devoted himself to her in a way no other

951
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: sultan had done before, and ends up crushing it as

952
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: sultan in pretty much every possible way. Is it because

953
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: of her? Maybe maybe not, but it had She certainly

954
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with it. So pretty good.

955
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people died, but still it's

956
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: not too bad, not too bad for sixteenth century Turkey.

957
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's her Rim and Suleman and their love.

958
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to say that Salim, her son

959
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: was known as Selim the sawt Oh. No, he was

960
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: a bad choice. He wasn't terrible, but he wasn't great.

961
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: He was just he was just there. It seems like

962
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: he was just there. But he also did take care

963
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: of Mahadevrin in her final days. Um she kind of

964
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: after Mustafa was killed, she had to go off and

965
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: live somewhere else in Versa alone or whatever, and she

966
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: was kind of poor for a while. But then when

967
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: Selim ascended, he sent her enough money where she could

968
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: maintain Mustafa's grave and she was able to live independently

969
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: for the rest of her life. And she actually outlived

970
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: all of them. Maha Devron also did pretty good. Now

971
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: did these new traditions stick, Like, did Selim live with

972
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: his wife, his his lead sultan and everything now, I

973
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: think her rim was special. I think her room was

974
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: really special. Obviously, like I say, she did usher in

975
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: a whole new reign of women, so there were definitely

976
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: women who were taking more part in the government. But

977
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: I don't think that many sultan's after her, or after

978
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: sue Lehman neglected the rest of their harem for one

979
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: above another. And I don't know if that's because sue

980
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: Lehman was a type of guy who wasn't really un

981
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: interested in a lot of women. He was like this one.

982
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: I like talking to her, and I like sleeping with her.

983
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: That's all I care about. I'm not trying to around both.

984
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 1: I mean, right, or if you know, again, maybe Harram

985
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: was really special and they didn't get that many who

986
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: were hot and smart and whatever, you know, worth worth

987
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: talking to, and also had something intelligent to say about

988
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: politics or whatever. I would guess more the former than

989
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: the latter. But I don't know. I couldn't say. I

990
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: don't know. So if you know anything about the Ottoman

991
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: Empire after this, I love to hear it. I did

992
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: read something about how a lot of Western writers say

993
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: that the Ottoman Empire started to decline after this, but

994
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: it's a misinterpretation of Turkish writers who were kind of

995
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: saying the empire declined, but it was only because they

996
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: felt like Suleiman was such a great sultan, no one

997
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: else really came close to him. Um, So it wasn't that. Yeah,

998
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't that the empire was like going downhill or something.

999
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: They were just like, it just wasn't that was the

1000
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: shining moment, you know, And it wasn't. It never quite

1001
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: reached that, right, And of course the West had invested

1002
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: interest in making you feel certain type of way about

1003
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 1: the Middle East, of course, so they were like, yeah,

1004
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: everything went to ship after that, and it didn't really.

1005
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: It lasted along a lot longer than than uh than

1006
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, but I loved this story. I thought

1007
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: it was super cool. Look at Harem's and all their

1008
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: crazy politics, mean girl cafeteria situation that we had to

1009
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: deal with. And also, yeah, weirdly a lot like the

1010
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: French court had it kind of called called back a

1011
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: lot of things. It feels like, I mean, you get

1012
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: you put people in a position of power and they

1013
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 1: need to build a structure around that to maintain their

1014
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: power and have people in different subpositions, you know, like

1015
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of anywhere in the world like end

1016
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: up with a similar structure. You know, I can kind

1017
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: of see where the parallels came from. And I'm sure

1018
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: you know once the training started to their exchanging ideas

1019
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: and coming in and be like, elected this idea of

1020
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: a herem that you've developed, maybe I could just have

1021
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: at least one, like just a royal mistress, you know,

1022
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: something like that. So you can see these ideas being

1023
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: exchanged too, and that's sort of, um, not homogenizing, but

1024
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: sort of where you start to see one being reflected

1025
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: in another. You kind of see these parallels across the

1026
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: globe in different systems because you know, again, if someone's

1027
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna maintain their control over an entire empire, then um,

1028
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: they've got to build a certain kind of structure to

1029
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: do it with. So no surprise that they're reminiscent, and

1030
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: also no surprise that if you have women around, they're

1031
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: going to think, how can I improve my situation using

1032
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: my brain and beauty and anything else I have at

1033
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: my disposal. Um, I think that is cool. I think

1034
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: that's a cool characteristic and also not a surprising one.

1035
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't think that is if if you if they

1036
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: were flipped. If we were like Tesla and we we

1037
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: flipped it exactly and it was a one woman and

1038
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: several men or whatever, um, then I think the men

1039
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: would also be trying to find a way to be

1040
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: the favorite and be the one that influence, you know.

1041
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: I just think it's funny when you go through history,

1042
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: it's always like this ambitious woman is fucking trying to

1043
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: do some ship. I'm just upsetting the whole apple card

1044
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you're like, yeah, duh, the bottom of

1045
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: a apple car seriously out of here apples well, and

1046
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: just not realizing that the human nature of wanting to

1047
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: improve your situation whatever it is, however you can, you

1048
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: do try, and if you can do it by being

1049
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: a good person, then all the better. And and for

1050
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: someone who's, you know, maybe naturally inclined to be a

1051
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: good person, she might use goodness to get to rise.

1052
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: It's not conniving ambition. It's like I want to if

1053
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: I help people, I and if if I'm likable, I

1054
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: will ascend, So I'm gonna do that. That's not me

1055
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: being sneaky. It's just me benefiting from goodness, right, And

1056
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of telling that she was really

1057
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: nice and kind in real life because nobody really tried

1058
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: to stop her. I mean, there was all these rumors

1059
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: about her being a witch and having all the you know,

1060
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: doing too much or whatever, but nobody really tried to

1061
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: stop her. So I'm like, I think within the palace

1062
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, cool. You know, think about all

1063
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: the people who might have been in charge before her,

1064
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: who were very mean, maybe in throwing ship and like

1065
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: acting crazy. So you know, I think that says something

1066
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: too that people were like, yeah, I know this works

1067
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: for me. You know, however she's doing it, keep keep

1068
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: casting those spells. Well, however you're doing it, send us

1069
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: an email. Let's know. I'd love to hear from you

1070
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: as always. Hope you enjoyed this, of course, and you

1071
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: can hit us up at Romance at i heeart media

1072
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: dot com it's right, or we're on the social media

1073
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: platforms Twitter and Instagram as well on at Dynamite Boom

1074
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: at o Grade it's Eli and we're both at Riddic Romance,

1075
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: and don't forget to leave a little rating for us

1076
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts and let us know how you're enjoying

1077
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: the show so we can share it with our corporate overlords. Right,

1078
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: Thanks so much everybody in jury weekend and we will

1079
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: see you next time. Hi, so long friends, it's time

1080
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: to go. Thanks so listening to our show. Tell your

1081
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: friends Nahbor's uncle's in dance to listen to our show. Ridiculous,

1082
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: Well Nance