WEBVTT - How Housing Discrimination Works 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.720 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.520 and there's Charles W Chuck Bryan over there, and this 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:22.800 is stuff you should know. Um the man oh man addition, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.280 do you know what I love about this topic is 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.440 that it's not just a bunch of like ranting about 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.919 how we think things are and how people think things are. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:42.520 It's like so studied and statistic heavy that you can 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.320 talk about how things are and then say, and here's 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.520 the proof exactly, here's a lot of data to back 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.879 it up. It's really great. I love it when they 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.760 dovetail like this. Yeah. I get the impression, though, UM 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.120 that you when you're talking about the studying race and 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.160 especially in America like you are, you have to back 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.680 it up with data like people are like, oh, yeah, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.280 I don't I don't know about that. But um, I 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.200 want to give a shout out to actually to um 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:13.720 uh scholars both sell sociologists of race. UM Professor Villnabashi 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:18.080 Treatler from UC Santa Barbara and Professor Tricia Rose of 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.320 Brown University both are experts on this stuff and they 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.000 helped me out big time with this and some other 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.560 research on on racism I've done, um and they Dr 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.160 Bashi Treatler said, hey, make sure you mentioned this hashtag 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.559 we have going called site hashtag. Sorry, and I'm making 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.959 the hashtag symbol like justin Timberlake hashtag site black women 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.479 ce I t e black women. UM, and that leads 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.720 you to all sorts of good often overlooked research by 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.040 black scholars. Um, who are women that don't always get 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.000 a lot of credit. So I'm glad you told me 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.680 about that one. I wanted to tell everybody else. So 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.280 when you, uh, that was a stutter when he said 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:04.120 so so sociologists, you didn't mean they were just mediocre sociologists. No, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.000 I was. I was sociologist. I could see how that 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.360 would be confusing. I was doing my impression of Phil 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.440 Collins saying sociologist so so studio. Yeah, well that's the 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:20.080 last joke we're gonna tell you. Oh yeah, probably. I 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.359 was warned by Dr Bashi Treatler not to do our 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.840 usual stick when we're talking about race stuff, and I 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:27.800 was like, well, I mean, we we can handle ourselves. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.440 She said. I I listened to your stuff. I listened 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:34.200 to the Braws episode just trust me on this. It's like, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.040 all right, So then that means the housing discrimination episode 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:42.040 officially starts. Now, that's right. So that's what we're talking about, dude. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.280 Housing discrimination and um uh in the United States, and 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.080 there is a very long history of housing discrimination. And 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.600 you might say, like, well, that really sucks. That sucks 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.000 that people have trouble buying a home or maybe they 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.000 get less favorable terms on their loans just because of 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.600 their race, and that does suck. That's absolutely true. But 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.680 it's even worse than that because in the United States, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:11.480 one of the biggest ways of growing wealth intergenerationally, like 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.680 over the course of generations within a single family is 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:19.320 through a house. Yeah, I mean it's sometimes people don't 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.400 have a ton of money to invest in the stock market. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.160 Some people think the stock market is not something to trust. 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.600 But one thing that has always been fairly reliable in 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.480 this country, you know, say, for a few moments in history, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.360 is real estate and the idea that if you scrap 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.839 up and save enough money for a down payment for 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.280 a home, that house will eventually be worth quite a 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.880 bit more years later, and you can sell it and 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.920 use that extra windfall of cash to invest in the 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.800 stock market or to pass down to your kids so 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.000 they can then get in the housing market sooner than 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.880 they might have and then it just becomes a cycle 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.520 where it just builds wealth. Yeah, Like the average family 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.520 in America has most of their net worth tied up 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.360 in their house, and then you know, when it comes 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:09.920 time to sell it and the house is paid off, 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.440 that's a lot of money. And then when you kick 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.400 the bucket, your kids get that money and maybe they 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.799 get a better house, and it just keeps growing and growing. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.400 So if you put up barriers to housing, you're actually 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.480 putting up barriers to passing along intergenerational wealth. And as 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.880 a big, big problem in America. UM Still today, I 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:34.480 saw a study from I think Brookings that found that, 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:40.520 um the median. Yeah, brooking study said that the median 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.000 net worth of a white family in America is a 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.680 hundred and seventy one thousand dollars. The median net worth 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.839 of a black family in America is seventeen thousand, one 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.080 hundred and fifty dollars, about a ten of what the 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.880 median is for white people. And that is largely because 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.920 of housing discriminate in the history of housing discrimination in 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.560 this country. Yeah, and as far as history goes, you know, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.960 it started with literal racist laws where they said, if 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.200 you're a black person or a black family, you cannot 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.000 live here. Um. That went on for a while, and 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.080 then those laws were sort of altered to the Jim 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.320 Crows Separate but Equal era, where they said, you know what, Um, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.120 we'll say things are better, but it's really the same 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.200 effect in the end. And then they got rid of 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.279 those laws and said, all right, now we've really passed 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.280 the meaningful legislation, and now we can just racially discriminate 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.440 on the down low and very creative ways. Yeah, that's 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:45.120 basically the pattern that it's followed. Um. And what kind 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.200 of stuck out to meet Chuck is is that before 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.720 about nine hundred, before like the rise of like industrialization 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.160 to a really legitimate degree in the United States, like, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.760 there wasn't not nearly as much segregation as we saw 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.960 starting around nineteen especially in the North, because if you 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.120 had a trade or a craft in the North and 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.520 you were an African American, there's a really good chance 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.920 that you were going to be serving white people as 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.960 well as black people, right and because you usually were 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.040 very closely your home was tied close to your shop, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.720 you often lived above it if you were like a 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.040 cobbler or something like that. Um, you made live next 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.880 door to a white baker or something like that. So 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.560 the there wasn't a lot of segregation until industrialization came 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.600 along and there was a big call for labor, which 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.320 drew a lot of African Americans, a lot of Black 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.839 Americans out of the South up to the north. And 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.240 all of a sudden, all of those people who were 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.840 living in integrated neighborhoods, all those white people I should say, 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.280 had had a problem with this influx of black migration 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.720 from the South to the north, and they responded with 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.320 a lot of really disgusting violence. Yeah. I mean, we've 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.680 talked about some of these, um race incidents and race 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.200 riots and race almost race wars really uh here and 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.600 there on the show, and they're always hard to talk about. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.560 But that was just sort of the reality of things 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.920 at the time. Um. In the nineteen thirties, the New 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.480 Deal comes along, and this is when legislation starts to 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.760 kind of kick in. When the government stepped in and said, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.880 you know what, we think we should make it easier 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.160 for people to own homes. We really want to boost 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.320 home ownership because that's a boon for the economy of 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.760 the country. And we're going to create the home Owners 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:37.120 Loan Corporation, which is going to help people refinance their mortgages. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.400 But we need some criteria here to sort of establish 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.400 a uniform way of like how to how to dole 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.280 out this assistance. And they reckoned, let's let's look at 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.320 every population of forty or more and let's create a 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.960 color coded map that's based on riskiness of these loans. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.840 And they said, you know, they talked to real estate brokers, 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.120 they talk to bankers, and they said, help us out, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.080 help us draw these boundaries, and they came up with 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.440 a one, two, three, four color graded system. Right, yeah, 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.880 that's right. Because again this was like long before credit 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.120 scores were developed, so you couldn't really look at you know, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.280 if somebody came into your bank to ask for a loan, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.480 you couldn't be like, well, you're your your credit scores this, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.480 So I'm not gonna look at that start. I don't 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.880 know we should do an episode on if we haven't already. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.320 I don't think for sure. Um, but yeah, so the 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.880 four color codes they had were also um delineated by 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.800 grades Grade A, B, C, and D. Grade A was 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:37.439 the most desirable neighborhood. They were usually homogeneous, meaning white. Um, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.440 there were um lots of professionals living in there. Grade 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.880 B was maybe a step down, but still largely homogeneous, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.160 if not totally homogeneous, and they were considered still desirable. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.720 And then it started to get into the lower grades 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:55.120 grades C and D, and C was um, I think 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:59.080 colored yellow on the map, right, Yeah, the first two 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.720 were green and blue, and then Grade C was rated 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.600 as declining and colored yellow and that sort of. In fact, 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.160 I think it even said infiltration of a lower grade 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:13.320 population in the document, which you don't have to be 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.160 a genius to figure out what they were saying there. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.120 It means people of color were moving in. And then 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.320 finally you end up with the color red Grade D, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:28.360 which is least desirable. Um, very densely populated areas almost 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.640 always communities of color. Right. So um, the h O 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.880 l C created these maps, and then um, along came 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.319 the Federal Housing Authority and they said, well, we need 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.800 similar maps because we're not we're not here to help 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.120 stem the tide of foreclosures. We're actually here to generate 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.719 new home ownership among Americans. Um, but we still have 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.680 the same issue. We got to figure out who's credit 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.200 worthy and who's not. So we're going to base it 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.360 on where the people live. And they basically made identical 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.280 maps to the h O l C maps, and so 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.520 they probably used them. Right, there's a lot of debate. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.400 I don't think anyone's found the smoking gun yet. But 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.160 if you take an h O l C map in 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.280 an f h A map and you put them over 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.400 one another, they're basically the same thing. And I I 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.319 it's kind of all. It's up for the debate still. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:22.000 But the the the upshot was that because of these maps, Um, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.360 if you lived in one of these red and often 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.000 yellow communities, they wouldn't lend to you, for um, for 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.880 a new mortgage or even a second mortgage to say, 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.640 remodel your home. And they also wouldn't assist you with 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.439 refinancing your existing mortgage, which means you're subject to foreclosure. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.119 And if you were in a red or yellow community, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.960 you were probably um black or a person of color 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.680 or some other ethnic minority. And UM, that means that 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.160 they were shut out of this enormous housing boom that 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.720 generated a tremendous amount of prosperity immediately after the New 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.680 Deal in World War Two. As we'll see, so African 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.400 Americans were left out of or on the fringes of 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.240 the New Deal anyway. And this is where we get 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.480 to shout out Francis Perkins. Perkins again, which is it's 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.400 fun to now that we know so much about her, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.120 to continually shout her out. But she did a lot 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.520 of work arguing in favor of inclusion for black people 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.360 in the New Deal. Um, I guess you know, sometimes successfully, 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.840 sometimes not. But at the end of the day, the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.720 f h A imposed these rules through the New Deal. Uh. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.640 Their maps were just like the UH the h O 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.200 l C. And the process of excluding these groups because 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.880 they were colored red was called redlining. That is that 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.360 like the where that whole term comes from. That's exactly 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.079 where it comes from. So now today, any any time 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.559 you're discriminated against, whether it's buying insurance or anything like that, um, 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.320 based on your race or say your community. Um, it's 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.680 called redlining now. But that's where it grew out of 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.040 those h O l C maps and f A J maps. UM. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.960 And I mean they would use terms and like their 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.080 their handbooks that like these communities had quote undesirable racial 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.760 or nationality groups in them, so you couldn't you couldn't 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.560 lend them any money or whatever. Um. And it was 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.000 I mean like this is still like a really big 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.640 problem today. Yeah, I mean back then basically and still today. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.360 In many cases, that leaves you with a couple of 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.360 options as a person of color. You can rent uh 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.240 forever um often times back then and still now from 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.080 a white landlord who doesn't live anywhere near that community, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.320 not always, but usually, or just pay for the home 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.440 in cash, which is a stretch for anybody. Uh, it's 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.679 it's tough to do unless you're like wealthy. And there 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.240 were there were, I have to say there were black 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.400 owned banks. But there was nine black own banks in 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.680 the entire United States in the thirties. So that is 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.560 a place where you could turn to if you're lucky 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.080 enough to have one in your area. But that that 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:58.880 was not a solution to the general population for Black Americans. Yeah, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.800 and like you said, also affected their ability to get 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.920 second mortgages, to do home improvements or to like expand 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.120 on their house and upgrade it, remodel it. So that 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.320 means that the properties are gonna deteriorate and decline over 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.400 the years, and it's just it's part of that systemic 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.800 racist cycle that is just prevalent. Yeah, because still today, eventually, 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.559 over time people from the outside looking in say, look, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.240 black people can't even take care of their communities. Look 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.760 at look at how their houses are. Um, just as 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.480 a result of this. That is definitely like the definition 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.520 of systemic racism for sure. It's just by the way 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.000 into the structures. If you hear dogs barking, My dogs 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.880 are upstairs and they're just very excited about this topic. Yeah, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.520 and I don't know what's going on there, but they're 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.480 not going to shut up. So let's say we press on. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.040 We'll press on. Should we take a break, then press on. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.600 We're going to press on like some lee nails right 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.800 after a break. How about that? All right, it sounds good. 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.520 All right, we're back and look, these things look amazing 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.680 on me. Yeah, they're very nice. There's a little bit 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.600 of cuticle showing. I didn't put them right up against it, 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.160 but it's still it's passable. Well, I think if you 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.280 paint them just right, that's not so noticeable. Right, fill ins, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.160 that's what I need. I need to get some fill ins. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:43.160 So back to the topic at hand, joking is over. Um, 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.680 so here's the deal. There's, like you said, a lot 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.360 of debate whether or not or I don't think we 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.480 said this part, whether or not the lenders actually use 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.280 these maps because these were government maps from government programs. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.800 It's not like they said, here, banks have these and 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.600 use these. Uh. If you look at the statistics, it 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.600 seems like they probably got their hands on some of 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.600 these maps. It does. And also, don't forget the government 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.360 figured out, you know, how to draw these maps for 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.360 every city over forty people from the lenders, from the banks, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.920 from the Yeah, so they knew this anyway, but now 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.400 the government has basically said it is okay to do this, um. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.240 And so so yeah, if you if you look at 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:28.120 the outcome of this redlining, these red line maps, um, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.000 it's it's really hard to say, no, this didn't happen 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.640 like this definitely didn't make it out of government hands 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:40.320 like forts here just great, let's trade off. Between ninety 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:45.680 four and nineteen sixty two, over of all the federally 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.040 backed mortgages that were issued in the United States went 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:55.360 to white buyers. Between four and nineteen sixty two, that's right, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.320 because of this black ownership since then and can tinuing 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.520 today is lagged behind white homeownership in America, and seventeen 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.160 just a few short years ago, of black Americans own 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:13.040 their homes versus seventy of white Americans. And then the 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.040 other problem with redlining a community is you basically put 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.200 a pox on it. It's cursed, because that means that 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.560 those houses are not going to get any kind of 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 attention UM, and so they're going to continue to deteriorate. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:26.800 And if you live in this community, as far as 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.280 a banker is concerned, you are a huge credit risk. Right, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.520 And so still today UM sev of the neighborhoods that 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:40.600 were originally redlined in those maps are our redline UM 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.640 low income communities today, And which is I mean, that's 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:49.200 pretty surprising. And I also saw that UM study found 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.520 that homes and red line neighborhoods we're still worth less 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.480 than half of those in green neighborhoods. Yeah, and here's 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.080 the one. I marked these as stats with an exclamation point, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.159 just that's how excited I get. But the ones that 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.359 I'm really floored by, I don't even write anything except 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.840 for three exclamation points. I've got three exclamation points by 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.359 that of back federally back mortgages. For sure, that is 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.480 definitely one. Um here's mine. If if you might say, well, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.960 what about variables man and education level and income level 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.600 and stuff like that, Like you gotta factor all that in. 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.640 That's a whole other side conversation as far as systemic 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.840 racism and being able to go to good schools and 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.119 afford a good education and get a good job and 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.080 all that. So just park that to the side. But 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.120 if you control for all those variables, college educated black 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.320 Americans are still less likely to own their home than 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:48.560 white Americans without a high school diploma. Yeah, That's That's 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.720 what really gets you is when they they're like, well, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.520 let us just control for all these factors and only 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:59.640 variable that remains is the race of the people applying 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.399 for a owner owning a home, and it's still the case. 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.760 That's when it's like, well this is indisputable. Actually yeah, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:08.800 and you know you can put a price on this. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.440 Red Fen did a study um just last year in 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.560 twenty that black American families missed out on the opportunity 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.240 to accumulate an average of two hundred and twelve thousand 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.600 dollars of you know what, we're talking about that intergenerational 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.000 wealth per household over the last forty years, just over 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:27.960 the last forty years. I mean we're talking about stuff 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.480 that started, I mean back in the days of slavery, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.960 but really started to take off in the nineteen thirties 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.320 with the New Deal. And this is just since nineteen 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.280 eighty they've lost out on that amount of money per household. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.159 That's nuts and still today, Chuck, here's another one that 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.960 gets me. Black American is five times likelier to own 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.600 a home in a red line neighborhood than a white 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.880 American is. So this is still an issue today. Um. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.720 So redlining these maps just set off this enormous amount 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.280 of um discrimination and I guess is all you can say. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.480 And then all of the horrible effects that come out 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.080 of that that level of discrimination. But they weren't the 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.800 only things that set it off. Um. The g I 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.399 Bill really kind of came in and said, well, hold on, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.280 hold my beer, I want to mess things up to 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.240 what does hold my beer mean? It means that like 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.600 there's some dude just kind of sitting there with like 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.040 his shirt, um just barely covering his gut drinking a beer, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.640 watching somebody do something stupid and he says, hold my beer, 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.280 and then he doesn't stupid. That's right. Yeah, I thought 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:31.639 that's what it meant. But you know me, I'm a 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.320 I'm an old man with a shirt barely covering his gut. 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.040 So I wasn't quite short. You should spend more time 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:42.960 on Urban Dictionary. It should. I don't drink much beer anymore, though, 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.240 although I do love it. What's your favorite? I mean, 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.159 you know I love Tropicalia here out of Athens, Georgia. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.520 The creature comfort. I still never had one. Well, you 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.720 should come over. I have a cagorator now on my deck. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.000 Oh my god, I'm serving it up. But I don't 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.639 know why I got it. I got it for friends 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.640 because I don't drink. It's on a beer. And then 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.320 the pandemic happened, and now I've just got a half 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:09.760 keg of beer sitting ship. All right. So yeah, the 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.320 g I Bill um this, you know, in theory, the 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:14.920 g I Bill is a great thing, and it has 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.239 done a lot of good. But in this case, it 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.879 did block access to home ownership among black Americans because, 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.119 uh they would come home from World War Two. The 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.120 g I Bill was passed. Banks are handing out mortgages 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.720 to veterans and they were actually allowed to discriminate based 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.719 on race. Yes, it's shocking. Yeah, well it's like whenever 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:37.520 you see that kind of thing, you're like, this doesn't 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.560 jibe with what I understand. Just look to the Dixiecrats, 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.840 the segregationists of the South, who were a very powerful 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:48.080 voting block and during the Jim Crow era, and they 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.879 were like to appease them and get them to vote 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.800 for something like a New Deal program or to not 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.240 do everything they could to block it. You had to say, okay, 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.200 well we'll make sure that that blacks are excluded them 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.119 this that that that Black Americans won't have access to 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.120 this amazing program. And they'd be like, okay, cool, let's 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.879 let's do it. That's that's that's where a lot of 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.879 that came from. And I mean, it's easy to blame 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:13.800 the Dixie Krats, but you can also be like, well, 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.479 you know, how hard did you try to go around 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.680 the Dixie Kratz too. I mean it was allowed to happen, yes, yeah, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:24.960 by everybody, despite Francis perkins best efforts. Yeah, here's the 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.440 stat For instance, in Mississippi in Uh, they build out 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.960 told out more than three thousand v A backed home 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.040 loans that year. Uh, and two of them were two 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.760 black veterans. Uh. Pretty startling. I don't even know the 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.520 percentage on that point nine eight. Oh yeah, there's got 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.879 to be a repeating something in there somewhere. Uh. And 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:49.560 you know this is a big deal because when World 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.840 War Two ended, they wanted a housing boom. There was 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:55.119 a lot of the supplies that would have gone to 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.959 home construction during the war went to the war effort. 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:00.440 So the f h A said, you know what, we 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.960 we need a housing boom here. We're going to guarantee 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:07.720 construction loans to you like big construction companies out there. 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.320 And that's when the suburbs popped up for the first time, 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.520 and that changed everything forever. Yeah. I mean, like they 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.439 they the birth of the suburbs were like a deliberate 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.800 program created by the federal government to to basically get 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.679 more people buying houses, to start that intergenerational wealth and 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.080 to create a middle class or to expand the middle 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.200 class dramatically. And they were able to do that partially 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.000 through just like when the f h came along and said, hey, 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.040 you know, we're going to back these people's loans as 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.520 long as they're not in a red line neighborhood. That 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.280 says to the lenders, well, then you know that means 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:46.840 even if this person defaults, the government will buy the 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.000 loan from me. I'm gonna get paid back no matter what. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.600 They did the same thing to these construction companies to 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.639 which created this huge housing boom. But there's a caveat 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.159