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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryan over there, and this

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Speaker 1: is stuff you should know. Um the man oh man addition,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I love about this topic is

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Speaker 1: that it's not just a bunch of like ranting about

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Speaker 1: how we think things are and how people think things are.

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Speaker 1: It's like so studied and statistic heavy that you can

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Speaker 1: talk about how things are and then say, and here's

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Speaker 1: the proof exactly, here's a lot of data to back

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Speaker 1: it up. It's really great. I love it when they

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Speaker 1: dovetail like this. Yeah. I get the impression, though, UM

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Speaker 1: that you when you're talking about the studying race and

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Speaker 1: especially in America like you are, you have to back

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Speaker 1: it up with data like people are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know about that. But um, I

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Speaker 1: want to give a shout out to actually to um

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Speaker 1: uh scholars both sell sociologists of race. UM Professor Villnabashi

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Speaker 1: Treatler from UC Santa Barbara and Professor Tricia Rose of

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Speaker 1: Brown University both are experts on this stuff and they

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Speaker 1: helped me out big time with this and some other

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Speaker 1: research on on racism I've done, um and they Dr

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Speaker 1: Bashi Treatler said, hey, make sure you mentioned this hashtag

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Speaker 1: we have going called site hashtag. Sorry, and I'm making

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Speaker 1: the hashtag symbol like justin Timberlake hashtag site black women

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Speaker 1: ce I t e black women. UM, and that leads

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Speaker 1: you to all sorts of good often overlooked research by

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Speaker 1: black scholars. Um, who are women that don't always get

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Speaker 1: a lot of credit. So I'm glad you told me

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Speaker 1: about that one. I wanted to tell everybody else. So

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Speaker 1: when you, uh, that was a stutter when he said

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Speaker 1: so so sociologists, you didn't mean they were just mediocre sociologists. No,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was sociologist. I could see how that

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Speaker 1: would be confusing. I was doing my impression of Phil

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Speaker 1: Collins saying sociologist so so studio. Yeah, well that's the

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Speaker 1: last joke we're gonna tell you. Oh yeah, probably. I

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Speaker 1: was warned by Dr Bashi Treatler not to do our

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Speaker 1: usual stick when we're talking about race stuff, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, I mean, we we can handle ourselves.

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Speaker 1: She said. I I listened to your stuff. I listened

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Speaker 1: to the Braws episode just trust me on this. It's like,

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Speaker 1: all right, So then that means the housing discrimination episode

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Speaker 1: officially starts. Now, that's right. So that's what we're talking about, dude.

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Speaker 1: Housing discrimination and um uh in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: there is a very long history of housing discrimination. And

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Speaker 1: you might say, like, well, that really sucks. That sucks

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Speaker 1: that people have trouble buying a home or maybe they

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Speaker 1: get less favorable terms on their loans just because of

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Speaker 1: their race, and that does suck. That's absolutely true. But

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Speaker 1: it's even worse than that because in the United States,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest ways of growing wealth intergenerationally, like

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Speaker 1: over the course of generations within a single family is

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Speaker 1: through a house. Yeah, I mean it's sometimes people don't

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Speaker 1: have a ton of money to invest in the stock market.

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Speaker 1: Some people think the stock market is not something to trust.

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Speaker 1: But one thing that has always been fairly reliable in

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Speaker 1: this country, you know, say, for a few moments in history,

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Speaker 1: is real estate and the idea that if you scrap

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Speaker 1: up and save enough money for a down payment for

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Speaker 1: a home, that house will eventually be worth quite a

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Speaker 1: bit more years later, and you can sell it and

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Speaker 1: use that extra windfall of cash to invest in the

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Speaker 1: stock market or to pass down to your kids so

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Speaker 1: they can then get in the housing market sooner than

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Speaker 1: they might have and then it just becomes a cycle

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Speaker 1: where it just builds wealth. Yeah, Like the average family

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Speaker 1: in America has most of their net worth tied up

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Speaker 1: in their house, and then you know, when it comes

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Speaker 1: time to sell it and the house is paid off,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of money. And then when you kick

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Speaker 1: the bucket, your kids get that money and maybe they

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Speaker 1: get a better house, and it just keeps growing and growing.

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Speaker 1: So if you put up barriers to housing, you're actually

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Speaker 1: putting up barriers to passing along intergenerational wealth. And as

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Speaker 1: a big, big problem in America. UM Still today, I

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Speaker 1: saw a study from I think Brookings that found that,

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Speaker 1: um the median. Yeah, brooking study said that the median

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Speaker 1: net worth of a white family in America is a

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one thousand dollars. The median net worth

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Speaker 1: of a black family in America is seventeen thousand, one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars, about a ten of what the

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Speaker 1: median is for white people. And that is largely because

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Speaker 1: of housing discriminate in the history of housing discrimination in

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Speaker 1: this country. Yeah, and as far as history goes, you know,

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Speaker 1: it started with literal racist laws where they said, if

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Speaker 1: you're a black person or a black family, you cannot

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Speaker 1: live here. Um. That went on for a while, and

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Speaker 1: then those laws were sort of altered to the Jim

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Speaker 1: Crows Separate but Equal era, where they said, you know what, Um,

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Speaker 1: we'll say things are better, but it's really the same

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Speaker 1: effect in the end. And then they got rid of

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Speaker 1: those laws and said, all right, now we've really passed

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Speaker 1: the meaningful legislation, and now we can just racially discriminate

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Speaker 1: on the down low and very creative ways. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: basically the pattern that it's followed. Um. And what kind

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Speaker 1: of stuck out to meet Chuck is is that before

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Speaker 1: about nine hundred, before like the rise of like industrialization

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Speaker 1: to a really legitimate degree in the United States, like,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't not nearly as much segregation as we saw

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Speaker 1: starting around nineteen especially in the North, because if you

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Speaker 1: had a trade or a craft in the North and

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Speaker 1: you were an African American, there's a really good chance

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Speaker 1: that you were going to be serving white people as

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Speaker 1: well as black people, right and because you usually were

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Speaker 1: very closely your home was tied close to your shop,

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Speaker 1: you often lived above it if you were like a

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Speaker 1: cobbler or something like that. Um, you made live next

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Speaker 1: door to a white baker or something like that. So

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Speaker 1: the there wasn't a lot of segregation until industrialization came

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Speaker 1: along and there was a big call for labor, which

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Speaker 1: drew a lot of African Americans, a lot of Black

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Speaker 1: Americans out of the South up to the north. And

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, all of those people who were

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Speaker 1: living in integrated neighborhoods, all those white people I should say,

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Speaker 1: had had a problem with this influx of black migration

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Speaker 1: from the South to the north, and they responded with

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Speaker 1: a lot of really disgusting violence. Yeah. I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: talked about some of these, um race incidents and race

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Speaker 1: riots and race almost race wars really uh here and

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Speaker 1: there on the show, and they're always hard to talk about.

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Speaker 1: But that was just sort of the reality of things

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Speaker 1: at the time. Um. In the nineteen thirties, the New

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Speaker 1: Deal comes along, and this is when legislation starts to

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Speaker 1: kind of kick in. When the government stepped in and said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we think we should make it easier

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Speaker 1: for people to own homes. We really want to boost

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Speaker 1: home ownership because that's a boon for the economy of

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Speaker 1: the country. And we're going to create the home Owners

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Speaker 1: Loan Corporation, which is going to help people refinance their mortgages.

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Speaker 1: But we need some criteria here to sort of establish

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Speaker 1: a uniform way of like how to how to dole

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Speaker 1: out this assistance. And they reckoned, let's let's look at

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Speaker 1: every population of forty or more and let's create a

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Speaker 1: color coded map that's based on riskiness of these loans.

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Speaker 1: And they said, you know, they talked to real estate brokers,

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Speaker 1: they talk to bankers, and they said, help us out,

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Speaker 1: help us draw these boundaries, and they came up with

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Speaker 1: a one, two, three, four color graded system. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Because again this was like long before credit

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Speaker 1: scores were developed, so you couldn't really look at you know,

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Speaker 1: if somebody came into your bank to ask for a loan,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't be like, well, you're your your credit scores this,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna look at that start. I don't

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Speaker 1: know we should do an episode on if we haven't already.

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Speaker 1: I don't think for sure. Um, but yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: four color codes they had were also um delineated by

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Speaker 1: grades Grade A, B, C, and D. Grade A was

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Speaker 1: the most desirable neighborhood. They were usually homogeneous, meaning white. Um,

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Speaker 1: there were um lots of professionals living in there. Grade

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Speaker 1: B was maybe a step down, but still largely homogeneous,

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Speaker 1: if not totally homogeneous, and they were considered still desirable.

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Speaker 1: And then it started to get into the lower grades

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Speaker 1: grades C and D, and C was um, I think

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Speaker 1: colored yellow on the map, right, Yeah, the first two

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Speaker 1: were green and blue, and then Grade C was rated

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Speaker 1: as declining and colored yellow and that sort of. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I think it even said infiltration of a lower grade

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Speaker 1: population in the document, which you don't have to be

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Speaker 1: a genius to figure out what they were saying there.

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Speaker 1: It means people of color were moving in. And then

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Speaker 1: finally you end up with the color red Grade D,

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Speaker 1: which is least desirable. Um, very densely populated areas almost

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Speaker 1: always communities of color. Right. So um, the h O

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Speaker 1: l C created these maps, and then um, along came

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Speaker 1: the Federal Housing Authority and they said, well, we need

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Speaker 1: similar maps because we're not we're not here to help

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Speaker 1: stem the tide of foreclosures. We're actually here to generate

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Speaker 1: new home ownership among Americans. Um, but we still have

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Speaker 1: the same issue. We got to figure out who's credit

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Speaker 1: worthy and who's not. So we're going to base it

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Speaker 1: on where the people live. And they basically made identical

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Speaker 1: maps to the h O l C maps, and so

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Speaker 1: they probably used them. Right, there's a lot of debate.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's found the smoking gun yet. But

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Speaker 1: if you take an h O l C map in

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Speaker 1: an f h A map and you put them over

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Speaker 1: one another, they're basically the same thing. And I I

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Speaker 1: it's kind of all. It's up for the debate still.

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Speaker 1: But the the the upshot was that because of these maps, Um,

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Speaker 1: if you lived in one of these red and often

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Speaker 1: yellow communities, they wouldn't lend to you, for um, for

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Speaker 1: a new mortgage or even a second mortgage to say,

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Speaker 1: remodel your home. And they also wouldn't assist you with

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Speaker 1: refinancing your existing mortgage, which means you're subject to foreclosure.

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Speaker 1: And if you were in a red or yellow community,

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Speaker 1: you were probably um black or a person of color

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Speaker 1: or some other ethnic minority. And UM, that means that

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Speaker 1: they were shut out of this enormous housing boom that

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Speaker 1: generated a tremendous amount of prosperity immediately after the New

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Speaker 1: Deal in World War Two. As we'll see, so African

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Speaker 1: Americans were left out of or on the fringes of

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Speaker 1: the New Deal anyway. And this is where we get

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Speaker 1: to shout out Francis Perkins. Perkins again, which is it's

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Speaker 1: fun to now that we know so much about her,

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Speaker 1: to continually shout her out. But she did a lot

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Speaker 1: of work arguing in favor of inclusion for black people

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Speaker 1: in the New Deal. Um, I guess you know, sometimes successfully,

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Speaker 1: sometimes not. But at the end of the day, the

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Speaker 1: f h A imposed these rules through the New Deal. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Their maps were just like the UH the h O

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Speaker 1: l C. And the process of excluding these groups because

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Speaker 1: they were colored red was called redlining. That is that

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Speaker 1: like the where that whole term comes from. That's exactly

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Speaker 1: where it comes from. So now today, any any time

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Speaker 1: you're discriminated against, whether it's buying insurance or anything like that, um,

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Speaker 1: based on your race or say your community. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: called redlining now. But that's where it grew out of

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Speaker 1: those h O l C maps and f A J maps. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I mean they would use terms and like their

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Speaker 1: their handbooks that like these communities had quote undesirable racial

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Speaker 1: or nationality groups in them, so you couldn't you couldn't

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Speaker 1: lend them any money or whatever. Um. And it was

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Speaker 1: I mean like this is still like a really big

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Speaker 1: problem today. Yeah, I mean back then basically and still today.

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Speaker 1: In many cases, that leaves you with a couple of

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Speaker 1: options as a person of color. You can rent uh

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Speaker 1: forever um often times back then and still now from

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Speaker 1: a white landlord who doesn't live anywhere near that community,

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Speaker 1: not always, but usually, or just pay for the home

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Speaker 1: in cash, which is a stretch for anybody. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's tough to do unless you're like wealthy. And there

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Speaker 1: were there were, I have to say there were black

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Speaker 1: owned banks. But there was nine black own banks in

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Speaker 1: the entire United States in the thirties. So that is

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Speaker 1: a place where you could turn to if you're lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to have one in your area. But that that

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Speaker 1: was not a solution to the general population for Black Americans. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, also affected their ability to get

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Speaker 1: second mortgages, to do home improvements or to like expand

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Speaker 1: on their house and upgrade it, remodel it. So that

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Speaker 1: means that the properties are gonna deteriorate and decline over

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Speaker 1: the years, and it's just it's part of that systemic

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Speaker 1: racist cycle that is just prevalent. Yeah, because still today, eventually,

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Speaker 1: over time people from the outside looking in say, look,

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Speaker 1: black people can't even take care of their communities. Look

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Speaker 1: at look at how their houses are. Um, just as

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Speaker 1: a result of this. That is definitely like the definition

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Speaker 1: of systemic racism for sure. It's just by the way

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Speaker 1: into the structures. If you hear dogs barking, My dogs

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Speaker 1: are upstairs and they're just very excited about this topic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what's going on there, but they're

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Speaker 1: not going to shut up. So let's say we press on.

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Speaker 1: We'll press on. Should we take a break, then press on.

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Speaker 1: We're going to press on like some lee nails right

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Speaker 1: after a break. How about that? All right, it sounds good.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back and look, these things look amazing

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Speaker 1: on me. Yeah, they're very nice. There's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of cuticle showing. I didn't put them right up against it,

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Speaker 1: but it's still it's passable. Well, I think if you

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Speaker 1: paint them just right, that's not so noticeable. Right, fill ins,

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Speaker 1: that's what I need. I need to get some fill ins.

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Speaker 1: So back to the topic at hand, joking is over. Um,

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Speaker 1: so here's the deal. There's, like you said, a lot

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Speaker 1: of debate whether or not or I don't think we

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Speaker 1: said this part, whether or not the lenders actually use

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Speaker 1: these maps because these were government maps from government programs.

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Speaker 1: It's not like they said, here, banks have these and

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Speaker 1: use these. Uh. If you look at the statistics, it

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Speaker 1: seems like they probably got their hands on some of

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Speaker 1: these maps. It does. And also, don't forget the government

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Speaker 1: figured out, you know, how to draw these maps for

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Speaker 1: every city over forty people from the lenders, from the banks,

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Speaker 1: from the Yeah, so they knew this anyway, but now

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Speaker 1: the government has basically said it is okay to do this, um.

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Speaker 1: And so so yeah, if you if you look at

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Speaker 1: the outcome of this redlining, these red line maps, um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really hard to say, no, this didn't happen

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Speaker 1: like this definitely didn't make it out of government hands

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Speaker 1: like forts here just great, let's trade off. Between ninety

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Speaker 1: four and nineteen sixty two, over of all the federally

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Speaker 1: backed mortgages that were issued in the United States went

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Speaker 1: to white buyers. Between four and nineteen sixty two, that's right,

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Speaker 1: because of this black ownership since then and can tinuing

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Speaker 1: today is lagged behind white homeownership in America, and seventeen

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Speaker 1: just a few short years ago, of black Americans own

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Speaker 1: their homes versus seventy of white Americans. And then the

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Speaker 1: other problem with redlining a community is you basically put

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Speaker 1: a pox on it. It's cursed, because that means that

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Speaker 1: those houses are not going to get any kind of

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Speaker 1: attention UM, and so they're going to continue to deteriorate.

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Speaker 1: And if you live in this community, as far as

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Speaker 1: a banker is concerned, you are a huge credit risk. Right,

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Speaker 1: And so still today UM sev of the neighborhoods that

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Speaker 1: were originally redlined in those maps are our redline UM

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Speaker 1: low income communities today, And which is I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty surprising. And I also saw that UM study found

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Speaker 1: that homes and red line neighborhoods we're still worth less

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Speaker 1: than half of those in green neighborhoods. Yeah, and here's

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Speaker 1: the one. I marked these as stats with an exclamation point,

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Speaker 1: just that's how excited I get. But the ones that

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Speaker 1: I'm really floored by, I don't even write anything except

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Speaker 1: for three exclamation points. I've got three exclamation points by

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Speaker 1: that of back federally back mortgages. For sure, that is

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Speaker 1: definitely one. Um here's mine. If if you might say, well,

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Speaker 1: what about variables man and education level and income level

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, Like you gotta factor all that in.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole other side conversation as far as systemic

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Speaker 1: racism and being able to go to good schools and

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Speaker 1: afford a good education and get a good job and

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Speaker 1: all that. So just park that to the side. But

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Speaker 1: if you control for all those variables, college educated black

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Speaker 1: Americans are still less likely to own their home than

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Speaker 1: white Americans without a high school diploma. Yeah, That's That's

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Speaker 1: what really gets you is when they they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: let us just control for all these factors and only

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Speaker 1: variable that remains is the race of the people applying

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Speaker 1: for a owner owning a home, and it's still the case.

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Speaker 1: That's when it's like, well this is indisputable. Actually yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know you can put a price on this.

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Speaker 1: Red Fen did a study um just last year in

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Speaker 1: twenty that black American families missed out on the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to accumulate an average of two hundred and twelve thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars of you know what, we're talking about that intergenerational

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Speaker 1: wealth per household over the last forty years, just over

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Speaker 1: the last forty years. I mean we're talking about stuff

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Speaker 1: that started, I mean back in the days of slavery,

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Speaker 1: but really started to take off in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: with the New Deal. And this is just since nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty they've lost out on that amount of money per household.

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Speaker 1: That's nuts and still today, Chuck, here's another one that

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Speaker 1: gets me. Black American is five times likelier to own

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Speaker 1: a home in a red line neighborhood than a white

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Speaker 1: American is. So this is still an issue today. Um.

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Speaker 1: So redlining these maps just set off this enormous amount

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Speaker 1: of um discrimination and I guess is all you can say.

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Speaker 1: And then all of the horrible effects that come out

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Speaker 1: of that that level of discrimination. But they weren't the

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Speaker 1: only things that set it off. Um. The g I

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Speaker 1: Bill really kind of came in and said, well, hold on,

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Speaker 1: hold my beer, I want to mess things up to

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Speaker 1: what does hold my beer mean? It means that like

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Speaker 1: there's some dude just kind of sitting there with like

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Speaker 1: his shirt, um just barely covering his gut drinking a beer,

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Speaker 1: watching somebody do something stupid and he says, hold my beer,

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Speaker 1: and then he doesn't stupid. That's right. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: that's what it meant. But you know me, I'm a

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Speaker 1: I'm an old man with a shirt barely covering his gut.

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't quite short. You should spend more time

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Speaker 1: on Urban Dictionary. It should. I don't drink much beer anymore, though,

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Speaker 1: although I do love it. What's your favorite? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know I love Tropicalia here out of Athens, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: The creature comfort. I still never had one. Well, you

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Speaker 1: should come over. I have a cagorator now on my deck.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm serving it up. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I got it. I got it for friends

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Speaker 1: because I don't drink. It's on a beer. And then

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Speaker 1: the pandemic happened, and now I've just got a half

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Speaker 1: keg of beer sitting ship. All right. So yeah, the

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Speaker 1: g I Bill um this, you know, in theory, the

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Speaker 1: g I Bill is a great thing, and it has

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Speaker 1: done a lot of good. But in this case, it

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Speaker 1: did block access to home ownership among black Americans because,

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Speaker 1: uh they would come home from World War Two. The

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Speaker 1: g I Bill was passed. Banks are handing out mortgages

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Speaker 1: to veterans and they were actually allowed to discriminate based

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Speaker 1: on race. Yes, it's shocking. Yeah, well it's like whenever

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Speaker 1: you see that kind of thing, you're like, this doesn't

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Speaker 1: jibe with what I understand. Just look to the Dixiecrats,

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Speaker 1: the segregationists of the South, who were a very powerful

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Speaker 1: voting block and during the Jim Crow era, and they

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Speaker 1: were like to appease them and get them to vote

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Speaker 1: for something like a New Deal program or to not

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Speaker 1: do everything they could to block it. You had to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: well we'll make sure that that blacks are excluded them

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Speaker 1: this that that that Black Americans won't have access to

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Speaker 1: this amazing program. And they'd be like, okay, cool, let's

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Speaker 1: let's do it. That's that's that's where a lot of

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Speaker 1: that came from. And I mean, it's easy to blame

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Speaker 1: the Dixie Krats, but you can also be like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, how hard did you try to go around

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Speaker 1: the Dixie Kratz too. I mean it was allowed to happen, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: by everybody, despite Francis perkins best efforts. Yeah, here's the

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Speaker 1: stat For instance, in Mississippi in Uh, they build out

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Speaker 1: told out more than three thousand v A backed home

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Speaker 1: loans that year. Uh, and two of them were two

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Speaker 1: black veterans. Uh. Pretty startling. I don't even know the

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Speaker 1: percentage on that point nine eight. Oh yeah, there's got

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Speaker 1: to be a repeating something in there somewhere. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: you know this is a big deal because when World

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Speaker 1: War Two ended, they wanted a housing boom. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of the supplies that would have gone to

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Speaker 1: home construction during the war went to the war effort.

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Speaker 1: So the f h A said, you know what, we

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Speaker 1: we need a housing boom here. We're going to guarantee

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Speaker 1: construction loans to you like big construction companies out there.

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Speaker 1: And that's when the suburbs popped up for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and that changed everything forever. Yeah. I mean, like they

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Speaker 1: they the birth of the suburbs were like a deliberate

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Speaker 1: program created by the federal government to to basically get

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Speaker 1: more people buying houses, to start that intergenerational wealth and

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Speaker 1: to create a middle class or to expand the middle

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Speaker 1: class dramatically. And they were able to do that partially

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Speaker 1: through just like when the f h came along and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're going to back these people's loans as

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Speaker 1: long as they're not in a red line neighborhood. That

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Speaker 1: says to the lenders, well, then you know that means

397
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Speaker 1: even if this person defaults, the government will buy the

398
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Speaker 1: loan from me. I'm gonna get paid back no matter what.

399
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Speaker 1: They did the same thing to these construction companies to

400
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Speaker 1: which created this huge housing boom. But there's a caveat

401
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Speaker 1: to it. Just like with the v A loans that

402
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Speaker 1: said you can discriminate based on race for loans, even

403
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Speaker 1: though this is really important, Chuck. Even though the government

404
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Speaker 1: the v A would back the loan of a black

405
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Speaker 1: veteran just like they would back the loan of a

406
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Speaker 1: white veteran and you would be repaid no matter what,

407
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Speaker 1: you were still allowed to discriminate based on race. The

408
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Speaker 1: f h A, supposedly with the birth of the suburbs,

409
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Speaker 1: said we're going to guarantee your construction loans, so you

410
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Speaker 1: can build suburbs, but you can't sell two black Americans.

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Speaker 1: That's another one that I don't think there's a smoking

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Speaker 1: gun that I saw, so I don't know if that means,

413
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Speaker 1: like get the word out, like you can't sell the

414
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Speaker 1: black people or else we're not going to back these loans,

415
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Speaker 1: or if it was stated policy, that haven't been able

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Speaker 1: to turn up. But it's pretty well understood that the

417
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Speaker 1: f h A discriminated against black people basically moving to

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Speaker 1: the suburbs by not backing construction loans like that. Well. Yeah,

419
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Speaker 1: and there were neighborhood covenants in place that said that

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Speaker 1: black people cannot own homes in these neighborhoods they were

421
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Speaker 1: there were clauses that said you cannot resell your home

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Speaker 1: if you go to move, you can't sell it to

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Speaker 1: a black family. Yeah, dude, if you want to be startled,

424
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Speaker 1: go search that um on Google Images. There's like pictures

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Speaker 1: of these clauses and deeds that say you can't sell

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Speaker 1: to anybody who's not white, or even specifically, you can't

427
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: sell anybody who's black. It's really jarring. Yeah, and it's um,

428
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it was sort of expressly understood that the

429
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: suburbs were being created for a reason, and that's to

430
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: get white people out of the city to a place

431
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: where they could live among themselves. And it's it's something

432
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: that's still going on. I mean, during the uh most

433
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: recent presidential election campaign, Donald Trump started playing praying on

434
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: these fears again. He was saying things like, literally, suburban

435
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: housewives of America, Biden will destroy your neighborhood and your

436
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 1: American dream. People living their suburban lifestyle dream will no

437
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: longer be bothered of fine or financially hurt by having

438
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: low income housing built in your neighborhood. And the these

439
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: are literal quotes, and it's just he's trying to to

440
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: garner a certain kind of vote, to be sure. But

441
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, we'll get to other stuff. I mean, Trump

442
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: has a long history and his and his family with

443
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: he and his father of housing discrimination. But the end

444
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: result of all this is white people. You know, people

445
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: call it white flight. They left the cities, moved to

446
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: the suburbs. People that were in the city still, these

447
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: African American families in these yellow and red line communities,

448
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: we're sort of stuck there. So the government steps in

449
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: to build affordable housing, which at first were racially integrated.

450
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: There were black people and white people, but then even

451
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: the lower income white people, uh fled for the suburbs. Yeah,

452
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: because wages rose. Yeah, and they left cities in an

453
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: urban communities almost entirely black. Um. Yeah. So proportionately speaking,

454
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: there was a tremendous drain of white people from the cities.

455
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was different on a city to city based.

456
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I know it was. There's

457
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: not a you can't put a whole blanket of history

458
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: over every square inch of the United States, so different

459
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: cities had different experiences. But proportionately speaking, black people have

460
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: always made up a smaller amount of the American population overall.

461
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: But then if you look at the you know, percentage

462
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: of black people, say in a city in nine I

463
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: think is when it peaked. For Atlanta in particular, Um,

464
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: it's like say black or something that's a way larger

465
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: proportion or disproportionate amount of black people living in the

466
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: city than say, um, in the suburbs. And then conversely, Chuck,

467
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: when you look at the suburbs and the statistics about

468
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: race or demography in the suburbs, then it really kind

469
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: of all comes home. Yeah, and you know they're living

470
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: in the suburbs. They decide, you know, we still need

471
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: to go into the city sometimes, so we need interstates

472
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: to get us there because we like going to concerts

473
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: occasionally or seeing a professional sports team play, right, and

474
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: so they built these interstates, Uh, they kind of barreled

475
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: through black neighborhoods built them there they often became a

476
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: dividing line. UH. And you know, these communities were set

477
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: up to fail. They had less frequent garbage pickup, they

478
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: had inadequate funding to keep up this public housing that

479
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: they built, UM, lower access to basic utilities, and they

480
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: were just in no position to to succeed basically. Now.

481
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to remember what episode we talked about

482
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: prow I Go Housing UM project in in St. Louis.

483
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: I think it was the Environmental Psychology episode, if I'm

484
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: not mistaken, But that was a really good example of

485
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: this of how people pointed to that people from the

486
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: outside and we're like, look, you can't like black people

487
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: can't take care of anything. Look at the degraded state

488
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: that this housing project is in. And it's, like you said,

489
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: like they were set up to fail through all through

490
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: like a lack of attention, a lack of funding, UM,

491
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: just a lack of basically everything UM. And it's it's

492
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: that kind of seem to keep perpetuating these um uh biases.

493
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: For example, and this is a big one that we'll

494
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: talk about later, that white people think if black people

495
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: move into an area, their housing values are going to

496
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: go down because of stuff like that. Yeah, I mean,

497
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of the I guess you'd call it the

498
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: dog whistle that everyone leans on there like, hey, we

499
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, we don't mind. Uh, we're not bigoted at all.

500
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: We just want to keep our housing values up. That's right.

501
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: That that so that one and then the the um

502
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: the myth that black people are just inherently um uncredit

503
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: worthy or not credit worthy are the two things that

504
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: seem to be used the most as cover for, like

505
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: you said, post civil rights are segregation in the United States,

506
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: the dog whistle, like you said, yeah, I mean, and

507
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: now is when we can talk a little bit about

508
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: um gentrification, because I mean, the way housing has worked

509
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: in this country is really fascinating and really gross in

510
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but just interesting to look at

511
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: from a bird's eye point of view. The way people

512
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: move around and what eventually happened with the cities is that, uh,

513
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, call them what you want, yuppies or dinks.

514
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of name for upwardly mobile white people.

515
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: They're like, Hey, I want to move into the city,

516
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: I want to be closer to to the concerts. Although

517
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: this is going to be controversial, I'm gonna get a

518
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: lot of cred for this, but one of the most

519
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: annoying trends of the last like fifteen years is building

520
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: all these concert venues out in the suburbs. It's so annoying.

521
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: And I know they want their concert venues out there

522
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: so they don't have to come into the city, but

523
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: I hate it when I one of my bands plays,

524
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, thirty miles out into the suburbs. I won't go. Yeah,

525
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of a pain. Although we did go out.

526
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: It's a huge Motley Crewe thanks to that was Nita Strauss. No,

527
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: that's true, So that was that was worth the trip

528
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: because it was Miley Crue and Alice Cooper. I just think,

529
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think all sports stadiums and all

530
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: concerts and you should be in the city. I'm with you.

531
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: That's definitely traditional into the city for a big day out.

532
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: You know, when they start moving museums way out in

533
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: the exurbs and I'm done. Um. But the same thing.

534
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: You could make the same case. When they built the

535
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: highways and everything, they just kind of built them through

536
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: black communities. That's what they did with with the stadiums

537
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: and all that as well too. Well, no, that's true.

538
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: You know, think about Braves. They just plunked Braves Stadium

539
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: ted Turner out just right in the middle of Mechanicsville,

540
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: which is a historically black community, and said, everybody moves

541
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: move aside, and don't harass all the white people who

542
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: come down to see the game on you know, same day.

543
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: We should do I mean, I love sports, but we

544
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: should do a There's such a problematic side to pro

545
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: sports from that too. Um, these billionaire owners is using

546
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: city money to build new stadiums when their other stadium

547
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: is just like ten years old or whatever. That is

548
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: definitely problematic. It's crazy, what a crazy amount of waste

549
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: that produces a loan just that alone. Yeah, um, alright,

550
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: so where was I? All right? Uh, white dinks are

551
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: moving into the neighborhoods again in the city because they

552
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: want good Thai food, and uh, these neighborhoods become a

553
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: little more attractive the more white people move into, other

554
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: white people to move in, and they start moving in

555
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: and increasing numbers, and the houses are generally renovated or

556
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: improved over time or sometimes they might bulldoze you know,

557
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: a pretty decent house with good bones just to build

558
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest house possible on their postage stamp

559
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: of a lot. It's crazy how close they build these

560
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: mammoth houses together. I'm sure it happens everywhere. Atlanta's got

561
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: a real problem with it. But what happens is, you know,

562
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: home user going to increase, that's gonna raise taxes on

563
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: the other homes around them. A lot of time, those

564
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: other homes are owned by UM, longtime lower income residents,

565
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: most times people of color, it becomes unsustainable. UM. We

566
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: have a great, great program here in my neighborhood and

567
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: east like called Neighbor in Need. That is UH Emily

568
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: and I have four main charities that we work with

569
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: and give to every year, and Neighbor in Need is

570
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: one of them because we like to stay really locally focused.

571
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: But Neighbor in Need basically addresses this head on and

572
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: they you know, raise a lot of money and they

573
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: use that money to take care of these people. UM,

574
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: if they hear about a neighbor that's like, you know,

575
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: in need, like an older African American couple who's been

576
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: here for forty years, they're having to pay way too

577
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: much in property taxes so they can't afford a roof

578
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: on their house. They'll go put a roof on their house,

579
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: or they'll pay their power bill, um whatever. I mean.

580
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: It's a really really great grassroots organization, so UM very

581
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: happy to be working with them and uh, you know,

582
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: trying to fight the sort of ills of gentrification overall. Yeah,

583
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: that's neat because it also draws the community together to

584
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: help the longest term residents of that community rather than

585
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: that whole everybody's on their own kind of thing, which

586
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure most people who move into a community like

587
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: you know that is gentrifying probably would want to do.

588
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: They just don't know how to do it, or they

589
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: don't know how to contact anybody. People don't just usually

590
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: go over to their neighbor's house and knock on the

591
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: door and introduce themselves anymore. So that's cool. Yeah, and

592
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,239
Speaker 1: you know this is uh sometimes they are able to

593
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: sell their house for a pretty good you know, the

594
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: housing value does increase, so they're able to get more

595
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: money than they might have before, which can be a

596
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: nice windfall. But I've also seen firsthand, literally with my neighbors, UM,

597
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: these sort of predatory home builders that come in there,

598
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: and while they think it's probably decent money compared to

599
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: what they thought they could get, it's still a lower

600
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: than what they would offer a white family. But even

601
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 1: if they were treated fairly and they walked away with

602
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: the big windfall from the sale, um and you know,

603
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: had a lot of money to retire on, that community

604
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: was still fractured. You know, the people who are having

605
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: to move and their neighbors who already had to move

606
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: may have lived there for generations or even you know,

607
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: just their whole lives and they formed a community. And

608
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: it's not like that whole community just moves elsewhere together.

609
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: They all go to different communities, often towards the end

610
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: of their life, and it leads to alienation, isolation. Um.

611
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: It's a that I mean, that's a real problem. Even

612
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: even if they are being paid well for the the

613
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: houses they're they're being bought out of because they don't

614
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: necessarily want to move, but they just can't afford the

615
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: taxes anymore. Um. So there's there's that's a big issue

616
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: with gentrification. It's tough to get around sounds like that

617
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: neighborhood group that you're talking about what's the name again

618
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: that they that they've they've figured out a way or

619
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: round it. Do you know what there needs to be

620
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: dude is uh and this is chuck twenty two stuff. Okay.

621
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: I think if you live in a house long enough,

622
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to pay property tax anymore. Yeah, I

623
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: think there are I mean, I have to be a lot.

624
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like twenty years or something, but that would

625
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: solve a lot of this problem. There is zero reason

626
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: why some elderly African American couple that's been in a

627
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: home for forty years needs to be paying taxes at

628
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: all on that house, much less these jacked up rates. Yeah. No,

629
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: I think that's that's totally true. Um. Yeah, I think

630
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: there's a if it's not law, there's a proposal in

631
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: Georgia to do that once you're sixty five or something

632
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: like that. Maybe. I mean, I'm ad about property tax anyway,

633
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: just because it's I don't know, we pay so much

634
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: in taxes. Then you finally scrape up enough to buy

635
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: a place that's your own, and the government's then like, well,

636
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: if you're going to have to pay tax on that,

637
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: do right? You know, I know, it's seems unfair. Also,

638
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to pay full price for coffee anywhere

639
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: once you reach sixty five or old agreed, especially after

640
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: three pm. Uh, All right, well, should we take a

641
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: break and then talk about the Fair Housing Act, which

642
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: solved everything. It totally did. It's all great now, alright,

643
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: we'll be right back up to this. Alright, spoiler, So

644
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: we ruined things. They passed the Fair Housing Act, and

645
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: racism has been solved in America. That's right. Ninety eight

646
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: And we talked about the Fair Housing Act a little bit, UM,

647
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a good thing they passed it.

648
00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: It did banned discrimination in housing practices officially, but it

649
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: just led to a little trickier way to get around

650
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: stuff by UM doing it on the download. Yeah, and

651
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: that is that is for if you're studying systemic racisicism

652
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: in the United States. The passing of like the Voting

653
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act UH,

654
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: and some other legislation UM during the sixties really changed

655
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: things in that no longer was the government in the

656
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: business of enforcing discrimination and segregation UM. And also now

657
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: you had recourse in the courts if you were discriminated

658
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: against UM. But it didn't just a race racism in

659
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: the United States that that task of enforcing basically white

660
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: supremacy and racial discrimination and segregation and all the stuff

661
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: that comes along with it fell to um lesser institutions

662
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: in everyday people who carried out. And when you're talking

663
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: about something like housing discrimination, UM, the people who now

664
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: are best able to continue enforcing segregation and discrimination in

665
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: the United States are people like lenders and real estate

666
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: agents and even people who are deciding where to buy

667
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: a house. Um. Everyday americans buying the house UM often

668
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: make choices that they don't necessarily think our racist, and

669
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: they might they probably don't think that they're racist, but

670
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: they're still they're housing choices often reflect um inadvertent or

671
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: otherwise racial choices or choices along racial lines. Yeah, and

672
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: this you know this next bit, we're we're sort of

673
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: busting on real estate professionals a little bit. I have

674
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: very good friends that are real estate agents. They're great

675
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: people for the most part. We don't mean to just

676
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: paint everything with the big broadbrush, but the industry does

677
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: have a history of it, for sure. Yeah, and we

678
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: have to talk about it. So there was one in

679
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: the in the eighties, there was one practice called block

680
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: busting god um not having anything to do with video stores,

681
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: I know it was the eighties, but um literally busting

682
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: up a block. When a real estate agent would work

683
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: or sort of act as a speculator and say, either, hey,

684
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: you know what you know, there are some black families

685
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: that are moving into the area. You may want to

686
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: think about selling just to protect your home values before

687
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: they fall. Or they might sell to a black family

688
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: and introduce them to the area so they could then

689
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: turn around, um, buy these houses from the white residents

690
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: and then sell them to the black residents or you know,

691
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: hopefully black residents, but at a big mark up. Yeah,

692
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: which has insult to injury, Like they created a basically

693
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: white flight from an area just from the rumor of

694
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: black people moving in, and then they move black people

695
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: in and sell them sell to them at wildly inflated rates,

696
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: which is crazy. And I read one story to Chuck

697
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: of one of these real estate agents that was doing blockbusting.

698
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: They would have a black dad with the stroller walk

699
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: around the neighborhood, um like he had moved in or

700
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: was thinking of moving in or whatever, and apparently just

701
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: that was enough to get people to start to sell.

702
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: And again you're like, you know, this is this is

703
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: terrible that real estate agents are doing it. But the

704
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: fact that it was effective really says a lot about

705
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: every day you know, white homeowners too. And also again

706
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: like it it doesn't mean like that these white homeowners

707
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: hate black people like they were worried about their property values,

708
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: because it's such an embedded myth in America that when

709
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: a black family moves into a neighborhood, they're so bad

710
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: at taking care of their their house and their home

711
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: values that it's going to drag the home values down

712
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: in throughout the entire neighborhood. And so everybody needed to

713
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: get out before that happened. That's that's again, that's the

714
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: definition of systemic racism. Yeah, and you know this has

715
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: been busted up to a large degree officially, but up

716
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: until nineteen fifty, the official policy of the National Association

717
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: of Real Estate Boards UM said a realtor should never

718
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: be instrumental and introducing into a neighborhood members of any

719
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: race or nationality whose presence will clearly be detrimental to

720
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: property values in that neighborhood. That was like literal policy

721
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: up until nineteen fifty, and then there was a study

722
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: in two thousand six by the National Fair Housing Alliance

723
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: that said, and this is something else called steering, which

724
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: is not blockbusting, but it's like, hey, like we want

725
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: to show you houses over here in this neighborhood because

726
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: we think it's a better fit for you. Uh. And

727
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: you know here the financial instruments available to get mortgages

728
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: for you and maybe not just for everybody. And black

729
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: people historically have not given the full picture. They're maybe

730
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: not shown white neighborhoods. Uh. And the study found that

731
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: steering occurred sent of the time when researchers posed as

732
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: buyers and we're shown homes like these sort of undercover operations. Yeah,

733
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: and steering occurs, um not just you know, if you're

734
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: if you're a black home buyer, you're not just going

735
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: to be shown a black neighborhoods. If you're a white

736
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: home buyer, they're probably not going to take you to

737
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: black neighborhoods either. So through this process of racial steering,

738
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: this is basically enforcing patterns of segregation still in the

739
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, there was another study by Brookings. They

740
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: found that black owned homes are undervalued by an average

741
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: of forty thou dollars. And this is one that's controlled

742
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: by all the factors like home quality and amenities and everything. Exclamation, Yeah,

743
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: it's forty eight grand literally because it is a home

744
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: owned by a black individual. When they control for amenities

745
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: where the home is the size of the house, everything

746
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: else about the house. If you compare apples to apples,

747
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: and it's the same house owned by a white person

748
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: and the other house that's exactly the same home by

749
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: a black person, the black person's house is going to

750
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: be forty thousand dollars less in value just because it's

751
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: owned by a black person. And that's that's just basically

752
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: that whole idea of um that black people drag home

753
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: values down becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, and um that

754
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: those same home values are all of that undervaluing that

755
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: same Brooking study found amounts to a loss of about

756
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty six billion dollars for Black Americans. Yeah,

757
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: for wealth they were not able to achieve. And uh,

758
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, we talked a lot about the Great Recession

759
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: in the mortgage crisis kind of when it was going

760
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: on and shortly thereafter, Um, Black Americans back then were

761
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: likelier to receive subprime mortgages. These were the loans that

762
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: were really expensive to repay. They had higher fees, they

763
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: had higher interest rates, um they also had mechanisms built

764
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: in if you were a black loan owner that made

765
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: it easier for the lender to seize their collateral with

766
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: usually meant their house and so like, it makes sense

767
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: that if you are taking a greater risk lending to

768
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: somebody as the bank, you should be able to get

769
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: more money for it, right, But the problem is is

770
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: like subprime mortgages were doled out to black homeowners or

771
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: black home buyers at way higher rates than they were

772
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: to white home buyers. And that's a problem in and

773
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: of itself if the if the rates are less favorable

774
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: and it's easier for the bank to repossess the house.

775
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: But especially it proved to be a big problem during

776
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: the mortgage crisis when that bubble bursts, because if you

777
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: were a low income Black American, you were probably denied

778
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: a mortgage of any kind. But even if you were

779
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: a middle to high income black home buyer, you probably

780
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: got a subprime mortgage compared to say, a white buyer

781
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: with the same criteria that you had to offer. UM.

782
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: So that meant that when those foreclosures happened because the

783
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: bubble bursts, Black Americans, especially UM, wealthier Black Americans, were

784
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: disproportionately impacted, so that that subprime mortgage debacle erased way

785
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: more Black intergenerational wealth than it did for white people. Yeah,

786
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: I have my last three exclamation points. Stat during the

787
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: subprime mortgage crisis, there was a study that found black

788
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: and Latino families, because you know we've mentioned people of

789
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: color a few times, is not just solely African American

790
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: families affected? Um, And the study found that black and

791
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 1: Latino families making two hundred thousand dollars a year or more,

792
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: we're still more likely to receive a subprime loan than

793
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: white families making less than thirty thousand dollars a year.

794
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: That nuts, and six point two percent of white people

795
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 1: with a credit score of six sixty or higher received

796
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: a subprime mortgage compared to twenty one point four percent

797
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: of black borrowers with that same credit score. So, Chuck, UM,

798
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: there's a big problem with all this. And it's kind

799
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: of like you said at the beginning, like when you're

800
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: talking about race and especially discrimination by race. Um, people

801
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: tend to be like, especially white people tend to be like, well,

802
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I mean, there's a lot

803
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: of other factors involved, Like it could be anything. So

804
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: you really have to kind of prove that this is

805
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: a thing. And ever since the federal government got out

806
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: of discriminating on paper, um, it's gotten a lot harder

807
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: to track. So back in the seventies, the Department of

808
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: Housing and Urban Development, they have an office of Research

809
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: and Policy. They came up with the way of testing

810
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: this to control for as many variables as possible and

811
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: just see if it's just race that is being discriminated against.

812
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: And it's called paired testing. It's actually pretty clever from

813
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: what I understand. Yeah, that's when you get to equally

814
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: qualified candidates to apply for homeown or to go to

815
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: a real estate agent and like look at apartments or

816
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: houses or whatever. Uh. They are trained to basically be

817
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: as identical as they can be to one another, to

818
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: respond to the questions in the same way, have the

819
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: same credit history, same job status, same income level, and

820
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: basically sort of be duplicates of one another except for

821
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: their skin color. Uh, they're not working together so they

822
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: don't even know, um, like there's no bias there even

823
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: because they're not like paired together, right, They're not like,

824
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: oh they got too, I'm gonna try this with them.

825
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: Like they don't. They don't meet one another, they don't

826
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: interact with one another. They're just doing their thing and

827
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: they're just trained to do it exactly the same way.

828
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: The only distinction between them is their their race. Right.

829
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: And so the Urban Institute, which is a think tank,

830
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: UM study this and they came up with kind of

831
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: four big points from this paired testing UH exercise, which

832
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: is UH. They found about discrimination and housing vouchers that

833
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: are intended to let low income renters choose from a

834
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: bigger pool a rental housing uh than the realtors even showed. UM,

835
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: there were fewer homes and apartments available to minorities like

836
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: we were, like I kind of mentioned earlier, like just

837
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: a smaller like no, you know, we'll just look here. Yeah,

838
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: the racial steering usually results in fewer, fewer places being shown. Um.

839
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: They were steered again to primarily um, you know, neighborhoods

840
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: of their own ethnicity, and then given less information overall.

841
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned about mortgage products, UM, different kinds of loans,

842
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: different kinds of ways of structuring a loan, just not

843
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: given that information at all. Right, Um, so the they

844
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 1: also found this paired testing turns up very frequently that um,

845
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: it's not just even people of colors, not just black Americans,

846
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: but it's people of color in general. But um, it's

847
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: not even just down to to racial discrimination. There's also

848
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: a lot of discrimination against people who are differently abled.

849
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: They actually sometimes fair worse than minorities when it comes

850
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: to housing discrimination. Paired testing is has turned that up

851
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: as well. So it's still the upshot of all this

852
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: is that it's still a problem and there is like

853
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: some silver lining to it. Um the I think. Uh.

854
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: That same think tank, the Urban Institute, also turned up

855
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: that there's been a general decline overall. It's not huge,

856
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's noteworthy. It's remarkable. Um of preference in

857
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: favoritism toward white white buyers over buyers of of like

858
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: minority buyers by about five percent between and two thousand.

859
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: It went from about so And there does seem to

860
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: be a general decline in racism or discrimination, I should say, uh,

861
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: in the United States. So that's the good news, is

862
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: that America seems to be getting less racist. The bad

863
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: news is that America is still racist. Like, we still

864
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: have a long way to go. It's, as the study

865
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: put the studies findings confirm a hard truth that America's

866
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: long journey to end housing discrimination remains unfinished. Um. And

867
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: so there's still a long way to go. And I

868
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 1: think it's really important for everybody to realize that there's

869
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: a long history of discriminating against people of color, but

870
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: also very specifically Black Americans, and that it's still going

871
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: on today. And even though it's in a slightly lesser form,

872
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 1: it's very important if it's going on at all, that

873
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: we we erase it. That's right, agreed, You got anything else?

874
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: Nothing else? All right, Chuck, Well then that's housing discrimination.

875
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: And since I said all right, Chuck, it's time for

876
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 1: a listener mail. Well instead of reading a specific listener mail.

877
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: And because this episode is a little heavy, we thought

878
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 1: we'd have a little fun. Um. We got maybe more

879
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: emails than we have for any other episode in our

880
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: history down literally about Neco wavers Um. A lot of

881
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: support for the Neco for people, and a lot of

882
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: condemnation for yucking yums without giving having tried them. You

883
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 1: were all correct. We honor you all, and we're gonna

884
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: Josh got some sent them to me. We're gonna try

885
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: some necka wafers on the air. Listen there. I just

886
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: realized I think I made a grave mistake by not

887
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: having any water in the basement. Yeah, I just realized

888
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: this as well. Do you have a pipe to tap into?

889
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: I think we should eat the same color. Oh really? Okay,

890
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: all right, so we can kind of go, you know,

891
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: nose to nose. I'm never open one these before. Okay, exactly, already,

892
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: so nasty. You know, everybody was right about yucking people's

893
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: yams in general, but also because we hadn't tried them.

894
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: So that's why we're doing this. I mean, they're just

895
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: falling apart when I opened the package. So to strike one,

896
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: I've got a mess on my table. What color are

897
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: we gonna do? I mean it's hard to tell. This

898
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: looks sort of like a very pale yellow. That's the

899
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 1: only whole one in my hand. Pale yellow. I don't

900
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: even have that. I got white. I've got orange it

901
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it is white, Okay, I'll call it. Wait wait, wait, wait,

902
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: I might have a palio when I do, I do it. Okay,

903
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: apology to the people of Mesophonia, but here we go.

904
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's just like it's like a flatter um,

905
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: bigger candy heart. The conversation hart, it's not bam like okay,

906
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: very hard, the crunches. I think what probably gets people.

907
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, the taste isn't bad, but it's not great. No,

908
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: they're not great, But I mean, who's crazy for conversation hearts,

909
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: sickos and weirdos? You know, the same goes for me. Well,

910
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: what's the verdict? Would you ever buy and eat Neca

911
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: wafers after this? I will tell you what. I will

912
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: probably eat the rest of these. And I like sugar.

913
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: I like as atter fact, I'm gonna do one of

914
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: the gray ones real quick. What about you? Uh no, no,

915
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: that is not my up my alley. But I'm gonna

916
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: try one of those chocolates because those where I think

917
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: recommended steer clear, the dark gray ones, the liquorice ones.

918
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: They're awful. It tastes Oh no, it is slightly different. Yeah,

919
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: I get a little hint up cocoa. I've come around

920
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: a little bit to the liquorice ones. At the end Wow,

921
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: I'm turning into an eco weirdo. Actually, the chocolate aren't bad.

922
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: What about pink? Try pink? Well, that's um, this is

923
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,479
Speaker 1: winter green. I think people are so disgusted right now. Yeah,

924
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: this is all right. We're literally the last two people

925
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: listening to this. Man, I think we should wrap this. Okay. Well, um,

926
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: if you want to tell us that we shouldn't yuck

927
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: everybody's jump, especially about something we haven't tried, we need

928
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: to hear that whenever we do that. It's totally true

929
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: and totally right. Thank you everybody who wrote him. You

930
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: can get in touch with us at Stuff podcast at

931
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: I heart radio dot calm Stuff. You should know it

932
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: is pretty action of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

933
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

934
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H