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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and Gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: What's up, Ladies and gentlemen? Fuck it, man, let's just

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Speaker 1: let's just start talking. Go no, I'll say that this

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Speaker 1: is another episode. I remember who I am. My name

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Speaker 1: is quest Love.

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Speaker 2: This is Quest Love Supreme. We have the Supreme team

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Speaker 2: with us Sugar Steve.

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Speaker 1: On paid Bill. Why yeah, you look a little different today. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, just don't say nothing. Don't say nothing the song. Now,

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Speaker 1: we don't do theme songs on the zoom.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So, ladies and gentlemen, this is a special

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Speaker 2: Quest Love Supreme. This conversation, in my opinion, is probably

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Speaker 2: six to seven years overdue.

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Speaker 1: I first met our guest of the show maybe like.

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Speaker 2: Two months after his memoir set The Boy Free was released,

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Speaker 2: and I distinctly remember my guitarists in the Roots, Captain

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Speaker 2: Kirk Douglas A say hello, Captain Kirk there, what's up?

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Speaker 2: He had asked me if I read the book at

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Speaker 2: the time, and at that time I didn't, and with

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Speaker 2: great intensity, you know, Kirk was like, dude, you gotta

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Speaker 2: get him on the show.

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Speaker 1: Like he's tailor made for a nerd.

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Speaker 2: Haven like Quest Love Supreme, And I remember my response

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Speaker 2: to Kirk was, wait, you listened to Quest Love Supreme?

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Speaker 2: And actually he was right because around the pandemic when

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Speaker 2: I went on my book reading rabbit Hole, I'll say

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Speaker 2: that his book was probably one of the few non

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Speaker 2: self help books I used to escape whatever it was

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Speaker 2: that twenty twenty was. And Kurt couldn't have been more right.

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Speaker 2: The musicianship of our Guest has kind of been the

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Speaker 2: sonic lighthouse or north star to many guitarist or songwriter.

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Speaker 2: You'll be pressed to find any band at least worth

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Speaker 2: their grain of salt that has been formed that at

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Speaker 2: least you know, doesn't name check our Guest as a

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Speaker 2: major influence on their creativity. Of course, he has most

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Speaker 2: notably co founded The Smiths, but he has played and

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Speaker 2: collaborated with such luminaries as of course Modest Mouse. I

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Speaker 2: have so many questions about you and Portland like my

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Speaker 2: all time favorite self right, the Pretenders, of course the Cribs,

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Speaker 2: his supergroup with Bernard Summer and Pet Shop Boys.

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Speaker 1: Neil Tennant has worked with Beck, Crowded.

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Speaker 2: House, the Avalanches, even the The I Love Saying the

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Speaker 2: and of course.

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Speaker 1: Bragg Billy Bragg, Billy Bragg.

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Speaker 2: And of course also just work with Don Zimmer and

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Speaker 2: Pharrell and the uh the scoring of inception. I will say,

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Speaker 2: like his his haunting, our pageo kind of guitar texture

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Speaker 2: pretty much is defined a generation, and we're giving the

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Speaker 2: honor to have a musician talk a musician rant.

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Speaker 1: If you will, with the rift.

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Speaker 3: Yeah he's gone now he wait too long.

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Speaker 1: Intro was too long. He was like, fuck it, I'm

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Speaker 1: out my guitar collection. He's back. All right, We're good, No,

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Speaker 1: for real, we're We're.

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Speaker 2: Happy to nerd out with iconic songwriter, author, guitarist, producer

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Speaker 2: Johnny mar The quest left supreme.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, it was so nice. Thank you very much,

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Speaker 4: really great to see you again.

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Speaker 1: Thank you What are you doing man?

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Speaker 4: Great?

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Speaker 1: Were you speaking to us? Now? Where is this?

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Speaker 4: Thank you for all that quest love. That was lovely

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Speaker 4: to hear all all those friends of mine being mentioned.

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Speaker 4: I'm in the studio that's in my house. I have

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Speaker 4: kind of a big main studio I've had for a

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Speaker 4: number of years. And then the funny thing. I don't

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Speaker 4: know whether you guys to relate to this as musicians,

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Speaker 4: but I did this thing where after years of having

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Speaker 4: a pretty comprehensive home studio. When I moved out and

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Speaker 4: I moved into this kind of old factory building in

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, I ran around to everybody saying, I've seen

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Speaker 4: the light. Get out of your house in the morning,

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Speaker 4: drive to work, go and do your day's work. Drive home.

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Speaker 4: Don't you know, get out of the house, don't we'll

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Speaker 4: have a home studio. Well, now I have two studios.

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Speaker 4: I have one in the house and I have one

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Speaker 4: in a separate building. But this room was kind of

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Speaker 4: modeled on one of the rooms that I was working

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Speaker 4: with when I work with Hans In. I just had

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Speaker 4: a spare room in the househouse isn't particularly big, but

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Speaker 4: with technology being the way is these days, you can

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Speaker 4: have a pretty decent mixing room. So I spend all

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Speaker 4: the time that I'm supposed to be at home with

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Speaker 4: the family a sort of spending this room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I always wondered about that because I'm currently

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Speaker 2: you know, I waited three decades to do my first

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Speaker 2: real purchase. If you will, I guess the only idiom

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Speaker 2: I can use is I'm debating on whether or not

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Speaker 2: I should ship where I eat, and I know the

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Speaker 2: home studio is sort of a factor in many a

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Speaker 2: creative's live but part of me is also has the

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Speaker 2: option to put the studio outside of the house, so

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Speaker 2: that way, my house is my house and my studio

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Speaker 2: is my studio.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think the rule of thumb really is if

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Speaker 4: I don't know now, I like the discipline of getting

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Speaker 4: out and got work and there are a fewer distractions.

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Speaker 4: This might sound obvious, but I think if you've got

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Speaker 4: the choice of having your main proper workplace away from

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Speaker 4: the house, I think that's better for the work I do.

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Speaker 4: If you can do that, if you're fortunate enough, because

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Speaker 4: I think it gives you that kind of window of

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Speaker 4: time when you want to because look, we're all human,

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Speaker 4: as inspired as we may be, you know, I know

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Speaker 4: sometimes you get into these crazy deadlines and twelve hour,

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Speaker 4: fourteen hour whatever days. I've in that window of time

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Speaker 4: when your subconsciousness is saying I need to make these

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Speaker 4: decisions now because I'm going to get in the car

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Speaker 4: and drive home at nine o'clock, nine pm or whatever

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Speaker 4: it is, and try and be like a human being.

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Speaker 4: I think that's good for the work.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'm pandering it. It's not silence. I keep

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Speaker 2: forgetting this a podcast, So I have to.

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Speaker 1: The sound of thinking. It's the sound of thinking. I'm like, hmmm,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just I think I have a concern and a

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Speaker 2: fear that if I put my studio on the scene

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Speaker 2: place that I live. Then you know, I have boundary

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Speaker 2: issues when it comes to personal life versus work, and

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Speaker 2: I kind of enjoy this thing where they're far apart.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm that is what I'm saying. I think

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Speaker 4: it's better to work away from your house. Yeah, as

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Speaker 4: a real as a rule of thumb, but I think

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Speaker 4: that thing. Don't mean to be presumptuous, but that thing

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Speaker 4: of what you you know, your term boundary issues. Has

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Speaker 4: just been a musician, been a musician of a certain type.

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Speaker 4: I've been very fortunate in my personal life in that

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Speaker 4: my family. I've been with my wife since we were kids,

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Speaker 4: and you know, my family and the way they just

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Speaker 4: kind of get on board. They wouldn't have it any

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Speaker 4: other way.

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Speaker 1: Sometimeline. Yeah, they got.

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Speaker 4: To just in case they might be listening to this.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you mentioned Portland earlier, but that's a good example.

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Speaker 4: When I when I joined that was a whole surprising

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Speaker 4: episode and the way that went down. But that was

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Speaker 4: me following a musical hunch and when Isaac brought from

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Speaker 4: the band inviting me over there, and you know, I

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Speaker 4: did what I did. I did the grown up version

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Speaker 4: of what I did when I was a teenager, which

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Speaker 4: was falling with a bunch of people who were strangers.

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Speaker 4: But it sort of felt like there's got nothing to

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Speaker 4: do with the fact that they were a big band

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Speaker 4: and I was known that managers weren't involved or any

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Speaker 4: of that. I was studying a room with a bunch

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Speaker 4: of strangers three thousand miles away, and we found myself

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Speaker 4: making music that felt really good that I couldn't identify

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Speaker 4: the one band. You know, It's like when you're a musician,

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Speaker 4: you can hear you can hear bands, and you can

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Speaker 4: hear their influences. You know, you can hear a certain

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Speaker 4: band and you go, you go, Okay, well, the singer's

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Speaker 4: doing Tom York or she's doing Shaka Khan, or the

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Speaker 4: bass players doing Flea or why you know whatever. You

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Speaker 4: can hear these influences and it's all good. But with

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Speaker 4: Modest Mouse, I had no idea where they were coming from,

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Speaker 4: and I got the invitation from Isaac and it was

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Speaker 4: enigmatic and kind of a funny kind of invitation, and

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Speaker 4: I said, okay, well we'll go. I'll go over there

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Speaker 4: as an experiment for ten days and it was a

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Speaker 4: whole of the story. But it went really gangbusters straight

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Speaker 4: out the gate when we started writing, and it was

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Speaker 4: inspired and I've got enough about me and know when

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Speaker 4: it's really happening. But to get back to the point,

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Speaker 4: I found myself just really loving what we were doing musically.

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Speaker 4: I've had no idea what to call this music or

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Speaker 4: any frame of reference. It just made me feel good

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Speaker 4: in the way that when you're fifteen you kind of go,

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Speaker 4: I don't know what it is we're doing, but it

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Speaker 4: feels good. It really was like that. But my family

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Speaker 4: were getting off on my enthusiasm. You know. My wife

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Speaker 4: was like, well, Johnny's buzzing. He's calling me from Portland

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Speaker 4: and you know, he's digging the place, and I'm hearing

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Speaker 4: about all this music they're making. And I was sending over.

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Speaker 4: My son was a fan of the band, and they

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Speaker 4: heard my enthusiasm and they were kind of like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this is what we're doing for now. Then, so my

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Speaker 4: life sort of, I guess because the people that I'm

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Speaker 4: involved with and because it's my living. You know this,

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Speaker 4: when we get back to this idea work life boundaries,

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Speaker 4: I try to live, you know, as an older person

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Speaker 4: a little bit more humanely now and you know, not

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Speaker 4: be too crazy. I mean, you know, not be too

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Speaker 4: sleep deprived. But everything we do is led by the

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Speaker 4: music and what I'm doing really by by what Dad

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Speaker 4: is doing and he's doing. So I'm very, very fortunate

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Speaker 4: that I don't really the work life balance thing. Work

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Speaker 4: is my life.

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Speaker 2: So since you brought it up so to hear you

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Speaker 2: explain it, you were just to do a limited maybe

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Speaker 2: a week and a little bit a week and a

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Speaker 2: half of work with Modest Mouse, and you liked it

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Speaker 2: so much you became a permanent couch guest in there

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Speaker 2: proverbial a matter of work all house and join the band.

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Speaker 4: An easier way to answer that question is that it

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Speaker 4: was so intense by the time we'd written nineteen tracks

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Speaker 4: and gone to Mississippi, made an album and we've become

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Speaker 4: like this tight gang, it just would have been too

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Speaker 4: weird to quit. There was a brotherhood, you know, you

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Speaker 4: go through this project so a ten days turned into

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Speaker 4: months because I knew it was happening. I was like, well,

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Speaker 4: this is a really interesting collection of people. The guys

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Speaker 4: in the band and the people around the band were

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Speaker 4: making a really good noise. We all like each other

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Speaker 4: straight off, and this brotherhood happened. And this is What's

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Speaker 4: happened in a few bands that I've been in that

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Speaker 4: there was exactly the same. And from the outside it

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Speaker 4: may look like I you know, I've I've joined the band,

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Speaker 4: I've quitted band. But I'm more of a serial joiner

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Speaker 4: than I am a serial quitter because those projects, when

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Speaker 4: you get involved with people in your an album, you

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Speaker 4: get so invested and you talk about it so much,

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Speaker 4: and you're on the phone talking about the tracks, and

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Speaker 4: you're getting together and you're caring about it so much.

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Speaker 4: By the time we finished recording The Modest Mouse album,

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Speaker 4: I was still a guy from England, but it just

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Speaker 4: would have been too weird to bail. I just wanted

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Speaker 4: to see it through and I cared about the songs.

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Speaker 4: I cared about the guys, I cared about about the record,

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Speaker 4: and I cared about how it was going to go.

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Speaker 2: When I was in you guys started in Mississippi and

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Speaker 2: then you ended up in Portland or.

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Speaker 4: No, we got started in Portland, and it was it

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Speaker 4: got off to such a good start from the very

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Speaker 4: first night with writing songs and jamming, which is something

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Speaker 4: I don't really do with a lot of people. I

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Speaker 4: always make it made a conscious decision when I was

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Speaker 4: maybe fifteen in nineteen seventy nine. Jamming for me was

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Speaker 4: standing in a really damp cellar with a bunch of

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Speaker 4: dudes who would smoke too much trash stuck on the

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Speaker 4: one chord and like for like twenty five minutes. That

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Speaker 4: helped my songwriting because I then sort of said, Okay,

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Speaker 4: note to self, when you come to practice tomorrow, bring

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Speaker 4: a couple of riffs, or bring some chord changes, or

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Speaker 4: bring a direction. And then that sort of fell on

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Speaker 4: me then too, and it helped me out as a songwriter.

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Speaker 4: Was I mean, I love writing songs, but it was

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Speaker 4: kind of a bit of a practical thing too. So

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Speaker 4: I can jam with people, but as I said, in

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Speaker 4: my career, haven't really been called on to do that

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Speaker 4: too much. But in modest Mouse, where it's collective, like

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Speaker 4: six people happened to be six guys in that band

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Speaker 4: with really different influences. Each member of the band would

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Speaker 4: thought they were doing and thought the band was something

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Speaker 4: different and so inspired.

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Speaker 2: And that's a good thing because in my mind that's

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Speaker 2: like my worst nightmare because you mentioned that if the

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Speaker 2: bass player thinks that, Okay, I'm Larry Graham or Flee

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Speaker 2: and I don't speak guitar language, and I know that

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Speaker 2: your your texture and your tone is like probably like

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Speaker 2: the most respected in the game. So I you know,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of why I wanted Kirk to be on

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Speaker 2: this episode, because you know, I I didn't even know

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Speaker 2: it to your book that gretch made guitars, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean.

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Speaker 4: Quest That is such a drummist thing to say.

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Speaker 2: Are you saying Gretz was a guitar first before it

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Speaker 2: is a drum Pretty sure it was.

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Speaker 1: I think it's where I'm finding that out.

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Speaker 4: That's really funny. Hey. Also, yeah, I hate to break

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Speaker 4: it to you, but Zilchin made Banjos.

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Speaker 1: I'm joking episode over, that's.

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Speaker 5: Pretty cheap, Yabahavi speed both.

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Speaker 2: I assume that if you're in the room that you're

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Speaker 2: kind of the the alpha only because you know the

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Speaker 2: band that you're you're most loved in your journey. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: sort of never used like you were anti Well I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you guys were anti synthesizer or whatever,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of the weight fell on you as

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Speaker 2: far as melodic and texture and tone.

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Speaker 1: Do you often feel as though you have to be the.

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Speaker 2: Alpha in terms of like determining where the melody goes

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Speaker 2: or the musical direction.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting to use that term. Well, as you'll know,

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Speaker 4: the chemistry of bands is both musical and personal, and

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Speaker 4: i'd almost say, particularly in high pressure situations or bands

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Speaker 4: a were big, maybe the personal chemistry is maybe even

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Speaker 4: as important as the musical chemistry. So my role in

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Speaker 4: all the bands have been in has usually been the

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Speaker 4: same and in a way I think, on the one hand,

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Speaker 4: alpha is an interesting way describing it, but my role

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Speaker 4: is to let the singers think that they're off about

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Speaker 4: really I'm running it.

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Speaker 1: Real leaders are Jedi mind triggers, listen.

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Speaker 4: I learned that from all the women in my life

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Speaker 4: very early on.

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Speaker 1: Where they make you feel like you're the leader.

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Speaker 4: And I saw it with all the older women in

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Speaker 4: my life, these great, absolutely great women, and the guys

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Speaker 4: knew it. By that, I mean I have a very

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Speaker 4: I really care a lot. I mean, I don't try

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Speaker 4: to train myself as a saint, but I bring a

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Speaker 4: lot of enthusiasm, enthusiasm to it and a lot of

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Speaker 4: energy to it, and you know, and I really do

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Speaker 4: give a shit. And obviously The Smiths is the most

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Speaker 4: notable because I formed that band, and you know, we've

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Speaker 4: gone on to be very well, well loved and everything,

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Speaker 4: which is obviously amazing. But I'm happy with my role

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Speaker 4: in all the bands that I have been in, which

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Speaker 4: is in a way, is that the great enabler if

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Speaker 4: I can be. And I have such respect for the

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Speaker 4: craft and the talent of the front men and women

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Speaker 4: that I've been involved because I learned so much from

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Speaker 4: being in the Pretenders with Chrissy Hind. It was a

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Speaker 4: short stint between eighty eight and ninety one, but I

306
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,399
Speaker 4: learned so much about front in a band from Chrissy.

307
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Speaker 4: But the singers that I've worked with, you know, also

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Speaker 4: I grew up in the time in the mid seventies.

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Speaker 4: I was getting a lot of my ideas together about

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Speaker 4: what a guitarist was. And you learned so much from

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Speaker 4: there was an archetype, if you like. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: know in the States there's the archetype to say, Joe

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Speaker 4: Perry and Steven Tyler, or there's you know over here

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Speaker 4: there's like maybe Jimmy Page or and Robert plant in

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Speaker 4: the rock vibe. Right, It's the same the world over

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Speaker 4: with guitarists, you know, without getting too cliched, a lot

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Speaker 4: of musicians are a type. It suits. A lot of

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Speaker 4: the bass players I know are very similar. A lot

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Speaker 4: of the drummers I know have quite similar personalities. They

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Speaker 4: go crazy if they've got nothing to do. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you give a guitar player, like a you know,

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Speaker 4: a couple of days off with a movie camera, suddenly

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Speaker 4: he's making his arty movie, you know. So I was

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Speaker 4: very typical of that, and I just worked very well

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Speaker 4: with certain kind of singers, obviously Morrissey being one, Matt Johnson,

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Speaker 4: Isaac Brock. I mean, there must be something in it

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Speaker 4: because I've done it with so many of them, and

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Speaker 4: I learned so much about them. But I was so serious.

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Speaker 4: I took it. I took the business of my apprenticeship

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Speaker 4: trying to form a rock band or be in little bands.

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Speaker 4: When I was a kid fourteen fifteen, sixteen seventeen, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I left school, I left high school early to be

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Speaker 4: in a band with adults when I was fifteen. I

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Speaker 4: took it so seriously that a lot of the lessons

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Speaker 4: I was trying to learn when I was a teenager

336
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Speaker 4: proved to be correct. You know, a lot of stuff

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Speaker 4: that I said that I was learning before this, myths,

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Speaker 4: you know, I was studying, like, serve the song, the

339
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 4: sing is the most important thing. Lock in as a

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Speaker 4: rhythm player with the drummer, and make the bass player

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Speaker 4: fit in, don't sit on top. These are all things

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Speaker 4: that served me. I was right to study that stuff,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that. Can you recall

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Speaker 1: from me what your very first musical memory was?

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Speaker 4: I can, yeah, it was. So. My parents were very

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Speaker 4: young when I was born, at seventeen. My mother was seventeen,

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Speaker 4: I think eighteen maybe, and they came over from Ireland

349
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Speaker 4: in the early sixties, and they are absolute music freaks,

350
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Speaker 4: record freaks. They were teenage record freaks from Ireland and

351
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Speaker 4: they loved rock and roll music. And my mother comes

352
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Speaker 4: from a family of fourteen and nearly all of them

353
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Speaker 4: moved over to the city for work, to Manchester. So

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Speaker 4: I was around a lot of very passionate, highly spirited,

355
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 4: hard living, you know, young music freaks. Well, certainly my

356
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 4: earliest musical memory is watching my mother and my dad's

357
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Speaker 4: sister play a forty five like fifteen times over and

358
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Speaker 4: over again, and luckily for me, I had guitar on it.

359
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 4: It was the Everly Brothers record. But watching these two

360
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Speaker 4: young women stand at a record player and just play

361
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Speaker 4: it with this joy and I was sat on the

362
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Speaker 4: floor with his joy and then play it again and

363
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Speaker 4: then again. And then I kind of grew up with that.

364
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 4: And my mother and father are still still around now.

365
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Speaker 4: If I go around to the house now, I have

366
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Speaker 4: to build in an extra forty minutes because I know

367
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Speaker 4: my mother's going to be showing me these songwriters on

368
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Speaker 4: YouTube that she's really into. So I grew up in

369
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Speaker 4: I grew up around that kind of musical obsession.

370
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Speaker 1: Really, what did your record collection like?

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Speaker 4: Oh? It was pretty good, you know. So. The thing

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00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 4: is the great thing about the household record collection was

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Speaker 4: that my friends, who were from more same middle class

374
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Speaker 4: English families, they had kind of books. I realized this

375
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 4: when I put out my You mentioned Myles guitars before,

376
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 4: I remember that I had got my friend's houses and

377
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 4: then they would have these the Great Big Book of

378
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 4: Mercedes and English country gardens and architecture. Well, in my

379
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 4: house we had records. So my parents were into They

380
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 4: were into a lot of country music. They're into like

381
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 4: people like George Jones, a lot of the Nashville thing.

382
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Speaker 4: But then there was the pop music, like bands like

383
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 4: the British bands like the Hollies, and they liked they

384
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 4: liked Elvis Presley and that was a real Irish thing,

385
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 4: you know, from the country, So there was a lot

386
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: of that kind of It was all American except for

387
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Speaker 4: some of the pop music that was coming out of Manchester.

388
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Speaker 4: So it was all about buying records, which was a

389
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 4: real working class thing, and then I got into buying

390
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 4: forty five's when in the UK what we call glam

391
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Speaker 4: rock is a little different from what the Americans are

392
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 4: called glam rock. That's kind of hair metal and the

393
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 4: la scene. But in the UK it was all the

394
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 4: early ce Rex yeah, exactly, t Rex Bowie, Sparks, not

395
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 4: the whop all of that.

396
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Speaker 5: Why was Manchester such a hot bed? I just got

397
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 5: back from there two days ago and it's a very

398
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 5: funny and interesting city. But why was Manchester such a nexus?

399
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 4: Well, the Industrial Revolution happened here in the eighteen nineties

400
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 4: and that made it a very industrial city. So you

401
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 4: had lots of industrial buildings and mills and factories. So

402
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 4: you can compare Manchester to two places or three places

403
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 4: in the United States, Seattle, because of the climber and

404
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 4: the size of it, and the fact that there's been

405
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 4: a couple of music movements.

406
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: Out of there.

407
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 4: But it's very like Detroit. It feels like Detroit. It's

408
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 4: very blue collar or was, and a lot of people.

409
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 4: So because of the Industrial Revolution, loads of people of

410
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 4: all different ethnicities and nationalities came here for work. So

411
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 4: there's a massive immigrants scene. There's a huge Jewish community,

412
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 4: there's a Caribbean community, there's an Asian community, a lot

413
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: of people came from India, a ton of Irish people,

414
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 4: which makes it have that kind of Chicago Boston vibe

415
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 4: as well. So all of these people had their own entertainment.

416
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 4: So in the sixties, Manchester had more clubs per capita

417
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 4: than any other city in Europe. So there was comedians,

418
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 4: there was bands, there was the beat movement, and it

419
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: was a place that all the bands, you know in

420
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,239
Speaker 4: the swinging sixties, well, you know, you had everyone You've

421
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 4: got Cream and Jimmy Hendrix and Brian Auger and whoever.

422
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 4: And before that the jazz scene and the blues scene.

423
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 4: It was the second place everybody came after London because

424
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 4: there was so many different It was so diverse and

425
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: working class. So you know, Sunn Terry and Brandon McGee

426
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 4: came in the early sixties and that was a game changer.

427
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: And the famous footage of sister Rosetta Tharps standing on

428
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 4: the train station that and in Manchester and then the

429
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 4: Blue Yeah, and then the Blues boom, and it goes

430
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 4: way back before Oasis even.

431
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: For you.

432
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 2: And I guess you can also ask this or not

433
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: ask this, Kirk, but answer this because in my mind

434
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 2: I was told that, you know, the lead guitarist is

435
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: sort of a singular string thing and rhythm guitarist is

436
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 2: more about the rhythm and chord wise. But were you

437
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: at your essence consider yourself in terms of your guitar work,

438
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: And also wanted to know, like in early Smith shows

439
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: before you added a second guitarist, like how would you

440
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: figure out the vision of labor inside yourself because obviously,

441
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 2: like a lot of your work, you have to overdub

442
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: chords on top of chords and parts on top of parts.

443
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 4: So okay, yeah, it's a good question. Well, I for

444
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 4: the lo longest time because I was I grew up

445
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 4: primarily in the seventies, so I was eighteen, I was nineteen.

446
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 4: I think when I formed the Smiths, I was eighty two,

447
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 4: So you know, I think of myself as a seventies kid,

448
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 4: you know. So I learned to play guitar by playing

449
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: along with forty five's like the old way, and my

450
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 4: little brother, who was nine years younger when he was

451
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 4: a toddler, his job was to put his finger on

452
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 4: the record to slow it down, which he loved that.

453
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: So I learned play from records, and of course I

454
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: had pals who were in bands, and I was in bands,

455
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 4: and then I went through that phase work we all did,

456
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 4: where we're all listening out for guitar solos and we're

457
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: listening to rock music and all of that. But why

458
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: I mention this too, because this is why, for the

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: longest time I thought myself as a pop guitar player,

460
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 4: because the pop music for me meant he's real, banging,

461
00:25:54,000 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: great breath died quite quirky, eccentric, forty five's. Of course

462
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 4: I love all kinds of music, but that was my

463
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 4: introduction to it. And I still the way those records

464
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 4: were put together and that the guitars were on those

465
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 4: records by the Suite and on Roxy Music, they're unexpected

466
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 4: and they're kind of hooky, and they're dazzling and they're

467
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 4: really exciting. So I always harnessed that, and in a sense,

468
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 4: quite often the studio I still do, especially when I'm

469
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: listening to playback and I'm wondering what I'm going to

470
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 4: do with overdubs, I think that's my job, hooks and

471
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: preferably something a little unexpected. So it's not about playing

472
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 4: amazing scales or solos or anything like that. It's making these,

473
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 4: like in my way forty fives. So then when I

474
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 4: came to start being able to put my own bands together,

475
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 4: say fifteen sixteen, and certainly write my own songs. So

476
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 4: this was the late seventies, a new wave was starting

477
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 4: to happen. I realized that quite a lot of other

478
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 4: guitar my friends, who some of them were great, great

479
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 4: guitar players, A few of them they would listen to.

480
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 4: Whoever it was, Jimmy Page or Bert janch or you

481
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 4: know whoever in my case now Rogers. But they were

482
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: listening to this and they'd want to play like that,

483
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 4: whereas I wanted to play like the whole record. I

484
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 4: would play the whole record, so the whole big picture.

485
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 4: So I kind of approached the guitar. I didn't go,

486
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 4: this is what a guitar does. I kind of went,

487
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 4: what does this record need, We'll do it on the guitar.

488
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: That's why there's all like high lifey riffs.

489
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: High life like afridin Feeler.

490
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like Armi Man's like a really you know,

491
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: like that was pointed out to me, but I wasn't

492
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 4: doing that because I was trying to. Later on, I

493
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: got really into King Sunny a Day and people like that,

494
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: But that was only because people told me I sounded

495
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 4: like that. But if you listen to all the overdubs

496
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 4: that were being done, the overdubs that were being done,

497
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 4: that was me sort of trying to go, oh, well,

498
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 4: that would be a string part, or that would be

499
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 4: a piano part, or that would be So that was

500
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 4: stuff that I learned off these glam rock records that

501
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 4: I try to do on the guitar. So I'm very

502
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 4: lucky that accidentally. You know, I can talk about this

503
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: now like fifty years later, because you know, I've had

504
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 4: plenty of time to think about it and you start

505
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 4: to know yourself better. But at the time I was

506
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 4: just that was the way I learned to play, trying

507
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 4: to play like a forty five, trying to do everything,

508
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 4: not just being in my lane. So I would hear

509
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 4: these melodies backing up the vocal or intros and stuff

510
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: like that, and I would just go, how do I

511
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: do that on the guitar because we didn't have a

512
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 4: keyboard player, so that was my approach. And then because

513
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 4: it worked, I guess now that I'm older, if I

514
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: do sessions with people, really that's what people want me

515
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: to do. You know, it's one thing being at a

516
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 4: describe it. That doesn't make it say you can automatically

517
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 4: do it. But for quite a number of years in

518
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: my thirties and forties, I think maybe I was trying

519
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: to kick against that a little bit or do something

520
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 4: different to that. But then when I got old old,

521
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 4: I went, you know, what's kind of cool to have

522
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 4: a thing that people know you for. I'm all right

523
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 4: with that now, and if people you know, if I

524
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 4: get invited to play on someone's track, I think I

525
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 4: know kind of what they want me to bring really,

526
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: and it's not like they just want me to play,

527
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 4: oh you know, make it sound like what difference does

528
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 4: it make? Or make it sound like this German Man,

529
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: but they do want something that you notice, maybe.

530
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: You're almost first out the gate on most of the

531
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: songs that you're on between your groups and your production like,

532
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: so I would imagine that even in concert, like the

533
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: second you hit a chord, it's almost like an immediate

534
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: explosion of you know what I mean. So, yeah, when

535
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: you're working with the artists and they're enlisting you, does

536
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: it ever get awkward in terms of them getting you

537
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: to be so derivative of a sound that.

538
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 4: I think because everyone I've worked with almost by none

539
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: I've been a fan of. So there've been someone, let's

540
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: you know, someone who is really cool. Oh, I think

541
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 4: he's dead cool Beck or Billie Eilish or Matt Johnson.

542
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I've done a lot of sessions, but generally,

543
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 4: you know, I mean there's been a few different times

544
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: when things have happeneding for different reasons, you know, I've

545
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: happened to be in the studio with someone or whatever,

546
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 4: and I don't really know them. But generally, when I've

547
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: been invited to play with people, I guess the answer.

548
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 4: You know what. Question of the answer is, I can't.

549
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: I think they're kind of too cool to say that.

550
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: But now I'm older, I kind of go. I want

551
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 4: to deliver what they what they want. I think the

552
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 4: main thing, though, is like when I was talking earlier

553
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 4: about some of the lessons that I learned as a kid,

554
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: this thing of being appropriate to the song. I know

555
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: with you guys as musicians you go well obviously, but actually,

556
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: in guitar culture in the in nineteen seventy six, thirteen

557
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 4: year old guys didn't give a shit about being appropriate

558
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 4: to the song. A thirteen year old year old guitar

559
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: players did not give too shits about the song. It

560
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: was like, how quick when do I get to be

561
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 4: loud and as fast as I can possibly be? So

562
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: when I came across that from reading a couple of musicians,

563
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: I was like, huh, okay. So when I do sessions now,

564
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: I think I'm trying to find the balance now of

565
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 4: being there and delivering something that is noticeable, because sometimes

566
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: in the past. Maybe twenty years ago, I got too shy,

567
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 4: maybe my ego got too small even or maybe I

568
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: was insecure or paranoid, or in the last twenty years

569
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: or twenty years ago, maybe in my thirties or something.

570
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: I did plenty of stuff where I was just playing

571
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 4: too down. I was just being too look. So when

572
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 4: I did Inception, I'd worked a one movie before in

573
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: the late eighties, Dennis Hopper movie called Colors, which was

574
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 4: amazing with her behind. I didn't score it. I played

575
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: on it, Okay, yeah, with Charlie Drayton.

576
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Ya.

577
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, that was the first movie thing that I did,

578
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 4: which was amazing, and because I really loved the movie,

579
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. But anyway, you've done that. But Inception

580
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 4: was the first real big movie that I was working on.

581
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 4: And get back to the point, I think Ann Zimmers

582
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 4: said to me, after a couple of days, you've been

583
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 4: too reverential to the score. We need it to be more.

584
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 4: You play a bit more out, be a little bit

585
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 4: more ego, if you like. And I was being a

586
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: little bit too careful. That's what I mean that. So

587
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 4: these days now I've tried to think the most recent Yeah,

588
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: so The most recent I think record that came out

589
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: was what I did on Noel Gallagher's last album, which

590
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 4: is a great album. I love playing with no because

591
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 4: Nole is forward thinking and it kind of answers your

592
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 4: question really because he wants me to do my thing

593
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 4: and be recognizable, but also he knows I will also

594
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 4: want to do something. I don't want to just be

595
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: a throwback to forty years ago. But on his record,

596
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 4: I delivered something which really stands out. I'm not saying

597
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 4: it's amazing. I'm just saying it jumps out from the track.

598
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like another one of his band members.

599
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 4: So these days I'm kind of more comfortable in my

600
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: own skin, really.

601
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you brought that up because I get

602
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: this a lot whenever I'm playing with someone that I

603
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: feel really doesn't look under the hood to see what

604
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: it is that I'm known for, because I'm known for

605
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: underplane like I'm known for. I'm not saying hiding in

606
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: plain sight, but you know, for what drummers are doing now,

607
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: which is basically look mino hands.

608
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: All over the place.

609
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: They'll usually say like now, man, have fun with it,

610
00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: and I know part of them is missing factor, and

611
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to tell them like, I'm not known for

612
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: I'm known for the pocket. So yeah, I mean, obviously,

613
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: if Hans hires you, then he knows your work and

614
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: knows that your chord structures your tone. Yeah, that that

615
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: is what really makes you you, and that you've not

616
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: been you know, eruption level fireworks when you know, how

617
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: do you handle it or do you just rise to

618
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: the occasion.

619
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I I you know, I rose to the occasion,

620
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 4: I think, And essentially I think, do you know what

621
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: I think? That says more about Hans than it does

622
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: about me. He's just a really, really nice guy. And

623
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 4: he kind of gave me that direction where he realized that, look,

624
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: you know, this is Johnny's first big movie, and he's

625
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 4: been too polite once he gave me that permission off

626
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: a when And then there was a couple of other

627
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 4: movies where like on this the Spider Man movie, we

628
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 4: were working on the music for that for a couple

629
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 4: of weeks, and I mean a lot a bunch of

630
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: us all doing different stuff, and I just came up

631
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 4: with a riff that unlocked the whole thing. I didn't

632
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: know it, it was just it was a Wednesday, and

633
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: we were all trying to come up with stuff, and

634
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 4: I thought lots of music was being made, but that

635
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: was because of what he told me to do an inception,

636
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 4: which was be you and turn up, be you and

637
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 4: be loud. But still, if we come back to it's

638
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 4: interesting what you were saying about your approach, I'd call

639
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: that just being tasteful. And there does come a point

640
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 4: where you kind of go, hey, look, I can do

641
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: all of this. Joe Boat your stuff. While I'm on

642
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 4: the subject, So guitar culture is changing. It's always changing

643
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: and always evolving. I love guitar technology and I love

644
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 4: new guitar players, but TikTok and I don't know whether

645
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 4: it's the same for drums, but TikTok and Instagram is

646
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 4: really changing a big part of guitar culture. And you've

647
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 4: got these like amazing children sat in their bedrooms just

648
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 4: being crazy, absolutely amazing, and it's kind of mind blowing

649
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 4: without sounding like some old git about it. Though. I

650
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 4: do wonder if the trick is to sit in a

651
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 4: room with three other people playing and make it sound

652
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 4: like music, and because that is just such a solo activity,

653
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 4: playing as flash as you like, I like stuff that

654
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: sounds like a group. There's a place for that, and

655
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: I applaud it. But my I get I don't know

656
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 4: whether the values is too much of a pompous way

657
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 4: of saying it, but I have my I do have

658
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 4: my values, and a lot of my values were as

659
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 4: all of us, it kind of baked into you when

660
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 4: you're starting out. I got to play some in my

661
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: life now where I want to keep evolving and I'm working,

662
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 4: you know, thinking about my next record, and you crossed

663
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 4: your fingers that you've got to be inspired. And it's

664
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: always quite a big journey. And as I've said, you know,

665
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 4: my family get involved. It's a big deal. But I

666
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 4: don't repeat myself. But I kind of like the values

667
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 4: that I've got, you know. I like the way my

668
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 4: band sound. We have a very and I think that's

669
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 4: something that comes with age. It's not about success, it's

670
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: about doing it for a long time. You go. You know,

671
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know. I want to evolve, but

672
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: I don't really know whether I want to. I don't

673
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 4: need to be TikTok, you know, I just don't. It'd

674
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 4: be nice to be on there and all that, but yeah, well,

675
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 4: thank you, But I think a lot of it is

676
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 4: to do with your own personal taste and maybe you

677
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: can call that values or it's just what you're into you,

678
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 4: you know. But luckily for me with what I do,

679
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 4: I said before that I used to describe myself as

680
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 4: a pop musician in the smid stays and electronic and

681
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 4: I've played a lot with pet Shop Boys and they

682
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: like that. I'm a guitarist who likes pop music. But

683
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 4: I have to say, in the last sort of ten years,

684
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 4: in this genrefied world, that you can't escape genres. I

685
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: now even I can hear that pop definitely sounds like

686
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 4: something else. Now pop really does sound like a certain thing,

687
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 4: So I have to then if I have to put

688
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 4: a label on it, I'm going to go the easy

689
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: route and say what I do is I'm a rock musician. Well,

690
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: I'm okay with I used to be okay with being

691
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 4: a pop musician because I liked the eccentricity of all

692
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: those records that I grew up trying to play.

693
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 6: Full Disclosure when You're the Guitar Player article came out,

694
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 6: I believe it was in nineteen eighty nine. The black

695
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 6: and white cover that was kind of a bible for me, and.

696
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: Uh, what was in it that spoke to you?

697
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 3: Kirk a lot of.

698
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 6: The influences that I didn't know what he was talking about.

699
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 6: But then it was also coincided with the time that

700
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 6: I started to rummage through my parents' record collection. So

701
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 6: when I saw you mentioning things like Fat Back Band,

702
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 6: when I saw you mentioning things like Bahannan, when I,

703
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 6: you know, talking about Chic, I remember thinking at the time,

704
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 6: I'm seventeen years old at the time, thinking like that

705
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 6: don't sound like some and then I'm realizing certain things

706
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 6: like you know, jump out, you know. First time I

707
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 6: heard King Sonny a day like mentioned was in that

708
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 6: article and highlight realized like, what the hell's highlight guitar?

709
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 4: You know?

710
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 6: And then I started to hear all of that in

711
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 6: the Smith's music, like in This Charming Man and everything,

712
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 6: and just how it's all coming from trying to replicate

713
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 6: multiple instruments. But it seems like it's all from the

714
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 6: Smith's days, well, your collaborative days with all the different projects,

715
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 6: and then with your solo stuff. It seems like you've

716
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 6: just created like a nice bed of influences to draw from.

717
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 6: So to say, I'm a rock musician. I guess for

718
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 6: simplify things, but it's so all over the map.

719
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks Kirk, Yeah, I think you're right. It does

720
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 4: feel a little reductive. I think maybe of it it's

721
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 4: because of what pop now is. I have to just

722
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 4: oh my and go pop now, as we know, it

723
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: is a different if you talk to a twenty two

724
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 4: year old person, it's it's not what I'm talking about,

725
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: but that article you talk you talked about it's interesting

726
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 4: because you know, I mean me and you we played together.

727
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: You got up and played with us in Brooklyn that time.

728
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 4: Is so cool and and but I know we know

729
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 4: each other. Like whatever was that now more than thirty

730
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: years ago to talk to another guitarist that I know

731
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 4: about that article, because I got so much shit for

732
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 4: that article in the United States.

733
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 7: Really, oh man, why yeah?

734
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 6: It was so great though, because you tell it was well.

735
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 4: No, it's so nice. So now thirty years later to

736
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 4: hear that it landed because well, for those very things

737
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 4: that I was talking about, Like, there are a lot

738
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: of rock guitar plays, well, I guess you call them

739
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 4: shredders now, but back then there was a whole load

740
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 4: of people who a lot of the guitar playing community

741
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: in America at that time, may possibly in Europe as well.

742
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: I guess we're very conservative. They didn't like what I

743
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 4: was saying. No, total, I'm curious.

744
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 6: There's an There was an in Vay Molmstein comment and

745
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 6: oh yeah, I think people like in Bay Molmstein should

746
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 6: be forgotten as soon as possible.

747
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 4: That was a quote, Oh look, I just okay, total

748
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 4: disclaimer that well no, no disclaimer, that is a sound

749
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 4: that someone uh, just being a little rude.

750
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: What's incredible.

751
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 6: No, but what's incredible is looking back exactly. But I'm

752
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 6: seventeen then, so I guess you're twenty Seven's what's amazing.

753
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 6: You're reading an article like this and like, this is

754
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 6: a grown man talking.

755
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: That's in my mind.

756
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: And then it's like, but it's a twenty seven year

757
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 6: old and now being the age that I'm at now, Yeah,

758
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 6: that was a kid in that article, and it was

759
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 6: an attitude that needed to be heard at the time,

760
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 6: with the type of guitar playing that around was so

761
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 6: yu big with us, it needed to be said.

762
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I think I was, well, what it was,

763
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 4: I was I knew it was going to be a

764
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: big story, and I think I was. I was, as

765
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: we say in Manchester, I was on one right, you know,

766
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 4: I was kind of on I ad an attitude. I

767
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: didn't walk around with loads of attitude, but I had

768
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: an attitude in that moment because I was maybe a

769
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 4: little bit too bluntly talking about what I was opposed to,

770
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 4: and I was trying to make a point. Hey it worked.

771
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 4: I think people people got my point, and I think

772
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: I think I was called the anti hero. Then, you know,

773
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: it's an interesting thing. Look, hey, the guitarists are not.

774
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 4: It was amazing when this when the Smiths arrived in

775
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 4: the United States, we arrived at eighty five tour and

776
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 4: so were the tour was sold out. We'd been known

777
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 4: and doing pretty well. We were a big enough band

778
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 4: in the UK and getting kind of well known in

779
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 4: the States. So we weren't we haven't busted into the

780
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: charts or anything, but we were. You know, we're playing

781
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 4: the Fox Theater in Detroit, I remember, and we're playing

782
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 4: the Arragon in Chicago. So we were playing at maybe

783
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 4: two and a half thousand and three thousand people, and

784
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 4: then on the West Coast some bigger crowds and stuff.

785
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 4: So we arrived with an audience. It's kind of interesting

786
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 4: because our audience they were kind of like get us,

787
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 4: and there was all these kids who were like they

788
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 4: were given us this thing. Wow, you've liberated. I didn't

789
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 4: know what a jock was until that tour of nineteen

790
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 4: eighty five, and then when I was meeting fans and

791
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 4: they were like, yeah, we hate the jocks too, We're

792
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: really anti jock. You guys really pissed the jocks off.

793
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 4: And I was like, what's it, jock? But I'd say

794
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 4: there was a movement of bands. It wasn't just a Smith.

795
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: I think depeche Mode did that, and The Cure did that,

796
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 4: New Order Echo and the Bunny Man. So we were

797
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 4: part of this wave of British boys mostly who and

798
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 4: it was cool.

799
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: You know.

800
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 4: I look back on that now and I think, oh,

801
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 4: that was so sweet. You know. I liked playing too.

802
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: I like playing to those kids because I was a

803
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 4: kid myself. I was twenty one or something, so it

804
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 4: was all new to me. I couldn't obviously, I'm going

805
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 4: to say what all British musicians have been saying since

806
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 4: the fifties. I couldn't wait to get to America. Wow,

807
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: and then that we had these people who wanted to

808
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 4: look like us, and then kids wanting may who were

809
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 4: trying to play guitar like me, and stuff that blew

810
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 4: my mind. But I was very nervous being a guitar

811
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: player because I have a huge part of it. I

812
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 4: used to get so nervous before shows because I did

813
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 4: because of the guitar culture. I thought, these people America

814
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 4: is not going to get me. This is coming back

815
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 4: to I'm remembering the mindset when I did that article,

816
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 4: because they asked me to do that article you're talking

817
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 4: about beyond the cover of the first it was the

818
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 4: last one of the decade or the first one, and

819
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know whether guitar playing America

820
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 4: understands me.

821
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: What was the makeup of the audience? Do you remember?

822
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was well in America, it was. It was

823
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 4: kind of more mixed than you would imagine.

824
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm so glad you said that, and still is

825
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: the sport, right, So I found out. You know, people

826
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: that listen to the show, of course know my worship

827
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 2: of the production work of Jade Dillar. And when I

828
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 2: first started working with Jay Diller, like around ninety seven.

829
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: I was really amazed at how like.

830
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: A big part of my.

831
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: Expansive musical vocabulary, you know, I mean it was prevalent

832
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: in the household because you know, I grew up with

833
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: a sister that listened to rock and alt music and

834
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and you know, my dad liked yat rock,

835
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: and so I got everything out of my two.

836
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: Parents and my sister.

837
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 2: I realized that in Detroit there's a black radio station

838
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: that had a show by a DJ called the Electric

839
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 2: Fine Mojo, and the Electrifying Mojo was open format to

840
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: the bone, like if it had a texture that touched him,

841
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: he would play it, you know. And again, Funkadelic's from Detroit,

842
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: so they would sometimes do straight up rock shit, and

843
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't like now where it's just like

844
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: it has to be funk or rap.

845
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: Or you know, he could play whatever.

846
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 2: And they were trying to explain to me one day,

847
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: they were singing, Ah, I forget which album of yours

848
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: Dylan was trying to sample.

849
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 4: Maybe it Meet his Murder. Maybe that was a big

850
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 4: album in America.

851
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was Charming Man or whatever

852
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: whatever it was. He had it and I was like, Yo,

853
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: what do you know about this shit? And he hit me.

854
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: To the fact.

855
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: And later I got tapes where I would listen to,

856
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: you know, someone would record four hours of the Mojo Show,

857
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: and for the life of me, I couldn't get how

858
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: some of the most gangster ass motherfuckers from like Detroit

859
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: when suddenly if you were put on you Guys or

860
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 2: depeche Mode or New Order, yeah, like they would just

861
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: go creat and start singing it like off the top.

862
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: And I was wondering, like, how did Mojo DJing in

863
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: the Midwest, if you will, sort of affect that. So

864
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: I always wanted to know what the concerts look like

865
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: because it.

866
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 4: Was really cool. So it's eighty five, and frankly I

867
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 4: was surprised. It was great, But then there was so

868
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 4: much about America that I was learning about. It was

869
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 4: so good. And I mean, you know, us being musicians

870
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 4: from from England, we were just like, we're gonna go

871
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 4: to a motown. We're gonna go to a motown, you know.

872
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 4: But and then the Fox was it was a oh yeah,

873
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 4: and you know all those places were but he's a

874
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 4: mixed crowd and and that stayed right the way to

875
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 4: this day. To this day being sampled. It's amazing. And yeah,

876
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 4: and the audience, I mean my own audience as well,

877
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 4: it's it's pretty it's pretty cool. But you know this,

878
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 4: we come from a city that it's a whole different

879
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 4: sub I guess, well, maybe it's related. But in eighty

880
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 4: one eighty two Manchester had this really strong relationship with

881
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 4: New York and the electro scene. And really we have

882
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 4: to thank Factory Records and therefore New Order for that

883
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 4: whole thing, certain ratio, and these were all my pals

884
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 4: and I hadn't had a record deal yet and I

885
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 4: was born in the Smiths but everybody, everybody knew everybody else.

886
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 4: And you know, the first ever Smiths show in America

887
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 4: was a dancetyria.

888
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: WHOA what was like it?

889
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 4: Well, we were jet lagged in like you know, no manager,

890
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 4: and you know it was it was New Year's Eve,

891
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 4: got from eighty three going in eighty four, and it

892
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 4: was we couldn't believe it. We were in Dwan to Teteryia.

893
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 4: So because we were from Manchester. So on the face

894
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 4: of it, people from the outside world they're like, well,

895
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 4: the Smiths are this chirpy, quirky in very very very English.

896
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 4: But because of the Manchester experience, we you know, Downceteria.

897
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 4: We were buzzing that we were at Downceeteria, and the

898
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 4: myth goes people say, this is true, but I should

899
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 4: know this, but that Madonna because she worked there, that

900
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 4: she opened for like a twenty minute set. I know,

901
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 4: it's spending a couple of books and it may actually

902
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 4: be right, But that was that was crazy that that

903
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 4: that happened. Yeah.

904
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the very first time I heard of you

905
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: guys was courtesy of Factory Records, but not in the

906
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: way that you think. So I know Factory Records because

907
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 2: around like eighty nine to ninety kind of when a

908
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: second wave of hip hop is starting, some independent record

909
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: labels got wise to the fact that you know, of

910
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: the old records that were sampling and whatnot to come

911
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: up with compilations, and so of course they were just

912
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: instead of you having a rummage through shit at the

913
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: Salvation Army, you know, and find doubles, you could just

914
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: buy a compilation and have it all on there. But

915
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 2: then Factory Records would take it even further and not

916
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: even just put the song on there. They would just

917
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 2: put the brake on there. So they would they would

918
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: just look like sixteen bars of a reticular break do

919
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 2: that for five minutes.

920
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: And that's how like.

921
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: At least three or four of your songs were on

922
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: those like I think his name is Simon Harris, but

923
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 2: it was on Factory Records. Yeah, and I always wanted

924
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: to know, like, were you guys that all ever connected

925
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: with or even a where.

926
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 4: Well I did hear about that at the time, and

927
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 4: we just thought. I still to this stage, I thought, wow,

928
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 4: that's really cool. Again. That's that's another example of music.

929
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 4: Does that, doesn't it because in some ways culturally you go, well,

930
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 4: you know, our countries are so different, but that's Manchester

931
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 4: is so like Chicago in that in that instant, you know,

932
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 4: like S nine hundred was it was it S nine

933
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 4: under the thing and the NPCs and stuff. I mean

934
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 4: everybody the first nine yeah, yeah, you know, everybody was

935
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 4: everybody was making music with those with those things. I

936
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 4: mean it was the center of Manchester, as in eighty

937
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 4: well eighty seven, but definitely eighty eight was the center

938
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 4: of house music in Europe. It wasn't Berlin, and it

939
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 4: wasn't and it wasn't London. Everyone knows it was Manchester.

940
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 4: So it is brilliant that you have those kind of

941
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 4: you have those connections that music can do that you know,

942
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 4: it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, you mean like your dad liking

943
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 4: yacht rock. You know, everything's fair game. But I think

944
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 4: a lot about that to do just plainlist, to do

945
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 4: with our age and where we are in If your

946
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 4: musician a certain age now, it tastes should be eclectic

947
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 4: because we grew up with like fifty years of all

948
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 4: kinds of people doing really interesting things. And if you're

949
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 4: just someone who likes music, you're like a hook in

950
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 4: this song, you like a groove in that song, you

951
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 4: like the way that person sings. It's all fair game

952
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 4: and the way the technology has served us all. I

953
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 4: think it's a really beautiful thing. You know, it's an

954
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 4: Zim has got this great story about meet and for

955
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 4: l writing on Spider Man. He always says, I mean

956
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 4: he was watching the guy who wrote Happy writing a

957
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 4: song with the guy who wrote Heaven Knows how miserable.

958
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 4: Now that's a good story, right, nice, it's a good story.

959
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 4: But but it's that kind of proves my point really,

960
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 4: like everything's a mix up now in pop, which is

961
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 4: kind of amazing. You take something like Billie Eilish with

962
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 4: Billy a few years ago on that Bond film and

963
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 4: her and finished a great examples of modern musicians. You know,

964
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 4: So I feel how great I look at I've got

965
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 4: the best guitar gig of all time, playing with all

966
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 4: these different kind of did people from different genres of music.

967
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 4: It's just great.

968
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: Okay, So you're in a room right now with Lord

969
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: knows how many actses are behind you.

970
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but few.

971
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: But you can only play one at a time. Maybe

972
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 2: you could play two first of all, And I'll ask.

973
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 2: And I always scream on Kirk about this as well.

974
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 2: I feel as though any legendary guitarist that at least

975
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: has clocked in double digits in years into a notable career,

976
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: I feel as though you should keep. And this is

977
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: where Kirk disagrees with me. I feel as though you

978
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: should keep your first ten years of guitar for history sake.

979
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: But yet, you know, Kirk, I don't know if you

980
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: know the story, but how old were you when Vernon

981
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: Reed gave you his guitar?

982
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 6: That's for my twenty fourth birthday?

983
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I thought it was like me and

984
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: Joe Green Coke commercial, like you were like eight, and

985
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: he's like, here.

986
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 6: Kid, I mean I was a young twenty four, you're

987
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 6: kind of I was green.

988
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: At thirty bro.

989
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 4: Guitar, right, but.

990
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: I gave that guitar to someone else.

991
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 6: I think Johnny understands this.

992
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 4: Uh.

993
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 6: In one sense, it's spreading good energy. And in the

994
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 6: other sense, it's like when you know there's such a

995
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 6: thing as having enough to share and recognize him when

996
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 6: you have enough to share. And I think Vernon felt

997
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 6: that way. I got to a part where like, I

998
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 6: have enough to share, I want to pass on good mojo,

999
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 6: to keep using the term, and and I think Johnny

1000
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 6: can take the rest.

1001
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 4: Well, Cris, Look, guitar players are just nicer than drummers, man,

1002
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 4: But a guitar.

1003
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: Am I to believe? I heard that.

1004
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a guitar that is

1005
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 2: on wonder Wall whatever, that's your guitar that yeah.

1006
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is? Yeah, I mean wonder Wall is that

1007
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 4: that's a third one. But by that I think I

1008
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 4: sold him that. By then I was sick of giving

1009
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 4: him guitars. I think it's that's that's the way he

1010
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 4: got it.

1011
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: How do you start your friendship with no.

1012
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: My brother's I said earlier. He is nine years younger

1013
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 4: than me. He's a really low key very He's a quiet,

1014
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 4: cool guy, really cool. And one day he said to me,

1015
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 4: he would have been about nineteen. There was when were

1016
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 4: I was in electronic He said, there's a mate of mind.

1017
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 4: He's got a band together and he's cool. He's a

1018
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 4: pretty cool guy. Now, my brother at seventeen eighteen, he

1019
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 4: was always getting guys usually say to him, will you

1020
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 4: give this? Give this D to your to your Johnny,

1021
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 4: give this that. Because my brother was out in town a.

1022
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: Lot, give this, use your A and R C D

1023
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: ref and he would just.

1024
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 4: Be I never even got to hear about it. So,

1025
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 4: because he's so low key, the fact that he said

1026
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 4: this guy is pretty cool, I should have listened harder. Really.

1027
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 4: But what happened was when I made a record with

1028
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 4: the Other called Dusk, which I still is one of

1029
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 4: my favorite things I've ever done. And Nol, who my

1030
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 4: brother had seen around town. Noel was coming out of

1031
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 4: a record store with Dusk, and my brother Ian said, Hey,

1032
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 4: what you got there? And and Noel said, I it's

1033
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 4: this new other album. And my brother, who Noel had

1034
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 4: known for a while, said, oh, yeah, my brother's on

1035
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 4: that record. And Noel was like, what what do you

1036
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 4: mean your brother's on this record? What do you mean?

1037
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 4: He said, he's playing guitar on it. So and then

1038
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 4: no was like, hang on a minute, what's your what's

1039
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 4: your last name? And he said, oh, mom, Ian Mars. Anyway,

1040
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 4: that's how that's how that came about. And that's kind

1041
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 4: of a long story. I won't go we're going to

1042
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 4: be here all night. But my brother gave me the

1043
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 4: tape of an early Oasis demo and then the next thing,

1044
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 4: I saw Noel in the in the rain in Manchester

1045
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 4: one day and I gave him a ride in the

1046
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 4: car and we went and talked and I just really

1047
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 4: liked him. And the thing is I went to see

1048
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 4: his band. The story really short. I went to see

1049
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 4: his band a few days later, and I swear there

1050
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 4: was eleven people there max and the show was just

1051
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 4: for my benefit. They were on it like seven this

1052
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: is no this is in Manchester. It's way before that,

1053
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 4: okay anyway, he so I went and watched him. He

1054
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 4: did like five five songs. But then when he called

1055
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 4: me the next day asked me what I thought I'd

1056
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 4: made a point of saying, well, look in between numbers,

1057
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 4: you take a long time tuning up. His guitar was

1058
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 4: so shitty he kept going out of chin. I only

1059
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 4: said that because he asked me, do you have any advice?

1060
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 4: And I said, well, you know, you really could do

1061
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 4: with a backup guitar, And quite rightly, he said to me, well,

1062
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 4: that's okay for you to say, mister indie rock star.

1063
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 4: I'm on the doll I'm on the benefits. So I

1064
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 4: was like, oh shit, okay, yeah, good point. And I

1065
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 4: thought he needed a guitar, and I can't give him

1066
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 4: a crappy one. So I gave him a guitar that

1067
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 4: I did a lot of smith stuff on. That was

1068
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 4: I did panic on and a whole bunch of stuff,

1069
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 4: and it blew his mind.

1070
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: You gave him my last bar.

1071
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gave him that that I got from the.

1072
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: Who Oh God.

1073
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 5: Flex small Flag.

1074
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 4: That's a good one. I don't regret it for a second.

1075
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 4: But the thing is, though at the time, no one

1076
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 4: knew he was going to go on to be who

1077
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 4: he is. You know, he was just a kid. He

1078
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 4: also came from We've got a lot in common. He

1079
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,439
Speaker 4: comes from our Irish family. It was just an easy,

1080
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 4: it was really easy thing for me to do, and

1081
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 4: I wanted I wanted to help him out, and and

1082
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 4: then off they went, and their rise was really quick,

1083
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 4: and so they then got in my office. I introduced

1084
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 4: him to my manager and all of that was great.

1085
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 4: He and my manager just really hit it off and

1086
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 4: they've been really tight. They've been together for thirty odd

1087
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 4: years throughout the whole journey, and me and Noel are

1088
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 4: closer than ever early thirty years later. But and you know,

1089
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 4: he's done plenty of good stuff for other people too

1090
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 4: that is less well known. I guess. So's it all

1091
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 4: kind of comes you know, what goes around comes around,

1092
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 4: you know.

1093
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 5: Johny, I got a question, have you ever been asked

1094
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 5: to play on an African record?

1095
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 4: Or?

1096
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 5: Is that something interesting? Giving the Sunny Hour Day references

1097
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 5: and all that stuff in the way you play.

1098
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 4: I played live with I'm doing Marry Him, and that

1099
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 4: was really interesting. That was someone who had did jam with.

1100
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 4: They invited me to come and play with him. I thought,

1101
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 4: oh man, this is going to be amazing. So the

1102
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 4: answer is no, not in the way, not in the

1103
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 4: way you mention it. No, I haven't I got very

1104
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 4: because when after this Charming Man came out a lot

1105
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 4: of people were writing that the guitars were very high life,

1106
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 4: and as Kurk mentioned, I had no I didn't know

1107
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 4: what high life was now in the UK, in the

1108
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 4: sort of underground station everyone knows, you guys don't know

1109
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 4: about John Peel. He was such a seminal guy.

1110
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: That's the guy that breaks you.

1111
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was. He used to play low loads of

1112
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 4: underground music on and outlying music, but on on BBC.

1113
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 4: So he was a brave guy and he broke a

1114
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 4: lot of bands. And I think you two started out

1115
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 4: on his show, and and and the Smiths, and there's

1116
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 4: a lot a lot of bands that I've got, you know,

1117
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 4: John Peel to thank now. He used to play. That

1118
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 4: was when I first started hearing high life after that,

1119
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 4: so it started to become it was a thing, but

1120
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 4: I didn't know about it in the in the UK,

1121
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 4: in the underground. But I just played the way I played,

1122
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 4: As I said, I was just looking for melodies and

1123
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 4: I had a kind of unusual way of playing. I think,

1124
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 4: playing that real clean sound m h. And I mean

1125
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 4: if you want to know about that as well, that

1126
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 4: was It's funny how these things come about. But I

1127
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 4: was almost forced into a clean sound, which really suited me.

1128
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 4: It was great because of the way fashions music fashions go,

1129
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 4: so because of punk rock and the sex pistols playing

1130
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 4: this very overdriven, let's say, like a Ramones kind of

1131
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 4: sound in the In the US it was short, sharp,

1132
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 4: very distorted like that, because that had happened after punk

1133
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 4: everyone was looking for their own thing. You might, you

1134
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 4: guys might find this interesting in Manchester because we're young.

1135
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 4: You know, quite often young people define themselves by what

1136
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 4: they're not. So if you're kind of hip in Manchester

1137
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 4: or but probably anywhere in the UK and maybe the States,

1138
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 4: not too much the States, but seventy nine eighty eighty one.

1139
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 4: For guitar players, there was a whole lot of thou

1140
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 4: shalt not so it was thou shalt not play pentatonic

1141
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 4: blues licks, thou shalt not sound like Freebird, thou shalt

1142
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 4: not sound like and it gave us. So there was

1143
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 4: a lot of As a guitar player, you know, you

1144
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 4: want to be modern and you want to be contemporary

1145
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 4: and cutting edge. So in my case, for me, my

1146
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 4: took this stuff very seriously, like distortion was out, a

1147
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 4: lot of effects were out, except for Charlie Burchill from

1148
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 4: Simple Minds. He did it well. A guy from Killing

1149
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 4: Joke did it well. But there was a whole bunch

1150
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 4: of guitar players, and in my case, what all I

1151
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 4: was left with was clean, no effects, and I was

1152
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 4: the one guy playing melody in the band, and the

1153
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 4: Factory Records guys all went towards funk, so a certain ratio.

1154
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 4: You hear it in New Orders Records. So obviously now

1155
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 4: Rogers was real Big Nile's thing, because if you've got

1156
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 4: no distortion and no sustain when you play guitar coord

1157
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 4: it disappears real quick unless you're going in the game thing,

1158
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 4: unless you're playing a lot of funk. Now, I mean

1159
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 4: this was very deliberate on my part. There was a

1160
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 4: few bands who were doing that very well, who were

1161
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 4: on the John Peel Show, and I was able to

1162
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: do something else. I was able to play very melodic,

1163
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: and I was able to play our pedgios, and I

1164
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 4: wanted my own thing. So bands like you hear it

1165
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 4: in Orange Juice and some of the What Postcard records

1166
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 4: where they've got this anemic very low fi approach with

1167
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 4: James Brown Beats because it had to be non rock,

1168
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 4: that's the thing, non rock, non rock, so funk was

1169
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 4: kind of a thing, but still it had to be

1170
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 4: lo fi. I think in the US the closest to

1171
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 4: it would have been ESG, you know. So it's this

1172
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 4: minimalist lo fi almost amateurish cool thing, and so the

1173
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 4: guitar version of that, and no one was doing what

1174
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 4: I was doing. So my point being that I was

1175
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 4: left with a few sort of very only a few

1176
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 4: things left that I could do. And I think that's

1177
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 4: a really good thing for art. I think if you've

1178
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 4: got just a few options, particularly in this day and age,

1179
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 4: when you can sit in front of a laptop and

1180
01:03:54,400 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 4: you can just pull down loops orchestras, choirs, anything you want,

1181
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 4: any kind of plugins. But then may as a guitar

1182
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 4: player I was. I was left with just a very

1183
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 4: very narrow set of options. So it made me play

1184
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 4: in a very hyperactive way. And that's where this high

1185
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 4: life ye kind of king Sonia day thin comes from.

1186
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 4: Because I didn't have a whole load of echo hanging

1187
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 4: around or a load of distortion, and I was very melodic,

1188
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 4: so I was kind of just really getting busy.

1189
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: Was it ever a temptation to go there?

1190
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 2: And I understand what you're saying, because you know, we

1191
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 2: started off busking, so I always played like a two

1192
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 2: piece set, a three piece set, and then of course

1193
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: the second we got our record deal, I fucked around

1194
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 2: and got a Neil Pert set, which my manager was like, nah, dude,

1195
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 2: like no, right, go back to your kick, your snare,

1196
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 2: your high and mess.

1197
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 4: It like that's right.

1198
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I learned my lessons.

1199
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 2: But were you ever tempted to like go out and

1200
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: five pedal effect wars in?

1201
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Oh no, I do that, but I try

1202
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 4: and do it to make to make it sound like

1203
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 4: my records, like I'm really into the technology. In the eighties,

1204
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 4: no one was more diametrically opposed to my approach than

1205
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 4: Eddie van Halen. There's no doubt about it. If you

1206
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 4: go what's the most extreme opposite to what I was doing,

1207
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 4: I guess is Eddie van Halen. And I saw Edie

1208
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 4: van Halen, and I watched this guy smile for two

1209
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 4: hours while he was playing and look like it was

1210
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 4: the greatest thing in the world. And I was like,

1211
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 4: he's all right, And then I met him. What a

1212
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 4: beautiful guy. Was absolutely beautiful guy, but no one needs

1213
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 4: me to be in that area. And it was just

1214
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 4: it's kind of a funny thing, and you know, I

1215
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 4: had forgotten that. I almost wish that I'd remembered that

1216
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 4: when when I wrote my book. But I think knowing

1217
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 4: what you were about well but still hoping to surprise

1218
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 4: yourself is where I'm at. But I love technology. I'm

1219
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,919
Speaker 4: my pedals crazy and but I've got it down now,

1220
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 4: and I think it's a whole other thing. But I

1221
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 4: think the technology is finally now. Maybe it was a

1222
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 4: number of years ago, but finally actually caught up with

1223
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 4: the musicians. If I'm not careful, I can spend too

1224
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 4: much of my time pressing buttons. I love programming pedals.

1225
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 4: I love it because it's I say it's programming. I

1226
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 4: say it is producing with my feet. Yeah.

1227
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 6: I'm so happy you included your pedal board in uh

1228
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 6: Mars guitars.

1229
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: But I did notice.

1230
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 6: Maybe I missed it, but I was looking for what

1231
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 6: you were using, and maybe you just omitted it because

1232
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 6: it's just simply unsex No, just it's just the rack

1233
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 6: units that you were using in the late eighties, like

1234
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 6: you had, you were using a rack amunted boogie. You

1235
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 6: had like a mess a boogie, power ramp, messu preamps

1236
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 6: and rack effects and yeah, but you didn't include that

1237
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 6: in the book. And it was it just do you

1238
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 6: not have them anymore? Or just it's just there. They

1239
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 6: don't look as beautiful as a fender.

1240
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: That's right.

1241
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 4: It was just an asthetic decision. I thought that if

1242
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 4: I'd done that, it would have tipped the book slightly

1243
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 4: too much into the realm of this book. Is is

1244
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 4: four Musicians? Because right, the balance with that book was

1245
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 4: I wanted it to be Yes, four Musicians, but I

1246
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 4: thought it would be a neat trick to pull off

1247
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 4: if people who weren't musicians had it next to zen

1248
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 4: gardens in their house. I want for that book, if

1249
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 4: I'm being honest, to be a little bit like the

1250
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 4: Trojan Horse. That's the book I'm trying to That's my

1251
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 4: way of getting guitars into people's houses who would not

1252
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 4: normally have a guitar book.

1253
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 6: Yes, and and Ra units are only sexy to guitar

1254
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 6: players of a certain vintage and to really no one

1255
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 6: else at all. Correct, while I'm in here, I just

1256
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask, we got the pleasure of playing

1257
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 6: with Nil Rogers at the Roots Picnic in New York

1258
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 6: a few years back, and he mentioned your son, Nile

1259
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 6: that plays ye mentioned you know how great he was

1260
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 6: at guitar, you know, hearing your story about your you

1261
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 6: with your parents and just the effect of seeing you know,

1262
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 6: your playing the record over and over and just music

1263
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 6: made in spaces. I'm getting the feeling that there wasn't

1264
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 6: much of a feeling of what's that noise that Johnny's

1265
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 6: listening to? Like your parents were listening to the noise

1266
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 6: of the day, it seems as well. And wondering what

1267
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 6: the dynamic was with Nile growing up. Was he ever

1268
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 6: into music that you were saying, oh that's shite or

1269
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 6: was it a similar dynamic that you had with your

1270
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 6: parents or.

1271
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,600
Speaker 4: That's an interesting question. Yeah. The thing is, well, now

1272
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 4: has made a few albums. Now he's made he made

1273
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,839
Speaker 4: an album with his band, Man Made, which I mean,

1274
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I get it. I think he's

1275
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 4: really I think he's really good. He's made a few

1276
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 4: solo records and now he's got a new band called

1277
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 4: Share And but because he put these records out, he

1278
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 4: was he'd done interviews, and he knows he's going to

1279
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 4: be asked about me some less polite or call or

1280
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 4: consider it rather interviewers are gonna ask him about me

1281
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 4: right out the gate. And he's a smart guy, but

1282
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 4: he's you know, he's okay, he can handle it. There

1283
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 4: was one time I was doing something and a podcast

1284
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 4: came on and he was on it, and I was

1285
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 4: hearing him being interviewed, and I was like, oh, I

1286
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 4: don't know whether I want to hear him talking about

1287
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 4: his childhood. What am I going to hear? And he's

1288
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 4: a funny guy, So it was weird. It was it

1289
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 4: felt a little like eaves dropping. It was I shouldn't really,

1290
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 4: I don't go out of my way to avoid it,

1291
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 4: but I was a little like, I don't I want

1292
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 4: to listen to the being in if you don't want

1293
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 4: him to do his thing. But in the interview they

1294
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 4: asked him about growing up in the house. Now. The

1295
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 4: thing is, he said, well, straight away, the people that

1296
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 4: because our house was a recording studio, it wasn't like

1297
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 4: we had a studio in the house. The house was

1298
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 4: a studio that we lived in really, so there was

1299
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 4: ants in the rooms and they were miked up for

1300
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 4: certain rooms. Sounded good because I had a big studio

1301
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 4: in the outbuilding outside, so there's a lot of musicians around.

1302
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 4: So he grew up with his sister in that environment.

1303
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 4: And his answer was that the thing that growing up

1304
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 4: in his house with me as his father, that the

1305
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 4: first thing he saw was that my famous friends, whether

1306
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 4: in Radiohead or New Order or whatever, that he saw

1307
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 4: a serious work ethic, not just from me and his mother,

1308
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 4: but everyone. He saw that successful people really work hard,

1309
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 4: which was nice, but then said it was unusual being

1310
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 4: in a house where where when he was playing a

1311
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 4: record he had to explain exactly why he was listening

1312
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 4: to it. And and I said to his sister, I went,

1313
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 4: he's got easy exaggerate. Is that right? Is that a thing?

1314
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 4: She was like, oh yeah, it was like so I

1315
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 4: was like, well, really, I used to go in there

1316
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 4: and he'd be like listening to Pink or Ave Levine.

1317
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 4: I've got what said she listened? Tell me why I

1318
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 4: know you're six. I know he's six, but tell me

1319
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 4: exactly why he's turned me onto a lot of music

1320
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 4: and vice versa. And yeah, So it was a similar

1321
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 4: dynamic to my household. It was this thing of I

1322
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:47,480
Speaker 4: guess it's just like all of us. Really, it's learned behavior.

1323
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 4: I think of, Okay, you've got to be musical anyway,

1324
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 4: because his sister isn't in a band. She can sing

1325
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,839
Speaker 4: like great, but she chosen not to be in bands.

1326
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 4: And he is a talented musician. But it's that thing

1327
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 4: of loving music. And I guess he saw how it

1328
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 4: can be your living, how you can take it seriously,

1329
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 4: how you can take it almost too seriously. I guess

1330
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 4: I say this quite a lot with the Irish thing

1331
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 4: as well. But in my house, seriously, when I was

1332
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 4: going to music was really was like a religion in

1333
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 4: my house. And I get and it's it's kind of

1334
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 4: like that in Ah. It's probably been like that for

1335
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 4: my kids. But they turned out okay, so it's all right.

1336
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 4: But so you know, it's an interesting thing. Well, he's

1337
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 4: named after Nol Rogers and he's happy about that. Yeah,

1338
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 4: and know Nile's happy about it. Yeah.

1339
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 8: I'm of course a big Smith's fan, and a lot

1340
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 8: of the things you worked on, but particularly the Billy

1341
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 8: Bragg stuff. I'm a big, big fan of that record

1342
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 8: in particular. It's just one record that you worked on

1343
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 8: with him the Taxman record or was it more than that?

1344
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 4: No, No, I did one called Don't Try This at

1345
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 4: Home as well. In fact, recently, it's got a psychedelic

1346
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 4: track on that. Check out Cindy of a thousand Lives.

1347
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 4: You will not believe it's Billy Bragg. It's this real

1348
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,799
Speaker 4: psychedelic shu gaizy. Yes, a good one.

1349
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, and sexuality. You co wrote the single on that

1350
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 8: one as well, right, Yeah, I did.

1351
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I produced that and wrote it with him. Yeah.

1352
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 8: I guess my question is because I do like to

1353
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 8: turn the question of supreme audience onto artists, they may

1354
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 8: not beoper familiar with Billy Bragg being one of them.

1355
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 3: So what was what was that experience?

1356
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 4: Like?

1357
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 8: Was there some story where you guys were toring together

1358
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 8: prior to working together?

1359
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, well the thing with us and Billy and me

1360
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 4: and Billy still so Billy was a real contemporary as in.

1361
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 4: I say that because so many years later now, not

1362
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 4: everybody's still around for whatever reason. Some dropped out, some

1363
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 4: just out with us anymore, et cetera. And Billy's still

1364
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 4: out doing his thing, which is so good, and he's

1365
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 4: doing it doing it well. So I'm really pleased for him.

1366
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 4: He came out and for the Smiths on our US tour,

1367
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 4: that tour I was talking about earlier in eighty five,

1368
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 4: and he was such a great opener because it was

1369
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 4: just him and his guitar, and he would he was

1370
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 4: so fearless, he would.

1371
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 1: Back then.

1372
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 4: It was all about, you know, politically, it was all

1373
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 4: about Reaganomics, and over here we had our version of it,

1374
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:27,759
Speaker 4: and he he would engage the audience with with stuff

1375
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 4: that was kind of was political but also funny and

1376
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 4: thought provoking. So quite often when you go on stage,

1377
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 4: you know, after some people, you know that the opening act,

1378
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 4: it's a hard gig for some opening acts because the

1379
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 4: audience aren't really listening. But he really engaged the audience

1380
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 4: as an opening act. But he had but no one

1381
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 4: had heard based on Drumson, and we went on. We

1382
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 4: sounded really huge. But what was great was he got

1383
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 4: the audience kind of antsy in a way. He was

1384
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 4: funny and he was thought provoking, and they'd never seen

1385
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 4: anyone like him, So Billy's whole thing. Back then, he

1386
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 4: used to say, when he sings a song, he wants

1387
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:11,680
Speaker 4: to sound like all of the clash, which was kind

1388
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 4: of what he did. He used to really go for it,

1389
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 4: so when you would come on, we definitely felt like

1390
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 4: he'd built a vibe. So we got to be pals,

1391
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 4: and I played on the Talking with the Taxman about

1392
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 4: Poetry album, did a couple of songs with him on that,

1393
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 4: and then we just stayed to be friends and we

1394
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 4: wrote Sexuality together, and then I became like he's kind

1395
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 4: of producer during that period, and he came to my

1396
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,520
Speaker 4: studio and did a few songs there for the album

1397
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 4: called Don't Try This at Home. He's someone who'll feels

1398
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 4: as stayed as a kindred spirit really politically, ideologically, I think.

1399
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 4: And it's nice when the good guys stay as the

1400
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 4: good guys, you know, it's really good, very heartening to see.

1401
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a great artist.

1402
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 8: Also somebody that I don't believe you've ever worked with them,

1403
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 8: And I could be wrong, but I'm going down this

1404
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 8: Nicolo rabbit hole because I'm about to interview Nikolo for

1405
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:12,919
Speaker 8: this podcast for the same for QLs, and I heard

1406
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 8: one in some interview that you're a fan of his,

1407
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 8: and I was just wondering where you caught onto that scene.

1408
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 4: Well, all musicians certainly of a certain age all regard

1409
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:29,440
Speaker 4: Nick low as a great man and a great musician.

1410
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 4: And when I said earlier, when I was talking to

1411
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 4: the quest of about I left school at fifteen to

1412
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 4: be in a band with adults. That was to go

1413
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 4: to Nick Love's house and make demos for Elvis Costello's manager.

1414
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 4: That was the first recording studio I was ever in,

1415
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 4: and I was I think maybe he was even fourteen.

1416
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 3: So this is Jake Rivieira.

1417
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, j Riviera called me one day when I came

1418
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:58,919
Speaker 4: home from school. I was still in my school uniform,

1419
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 4: and I thought it was I thought it was one

1420
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 4: of my piles playing a prank. And one of my

1421
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 4: other piles had sent in a tape of my band

1422
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 4: to Jake Riviera.

1423
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,759
Speaker 3: And he liked it and for Stiff Records.

1424
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, nothing came of it, but it was a

1425
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 4: big experience for me because I'd never been in a

1426
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 4: recording studio and I was in Nick Lowe's house and

1427
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 4: Nick low while we were there, Nick Lowe came back

1428
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 4: from an American tour while and I didn't meet him,

1429
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 4: but I saw him. I saw his cowboy boots wobbling

1430
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 4: up the stairs up to his bedroom honestly, very very unsteadily,

1431
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 4: and then heard a crash and then no one saw

1432
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 4: him for a few days. But I then worked with

1433
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:53,520
Speaker 4: him because of this story. When I was in The Pretenders,

1434
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 4: Christy who was a very generous person because behind her

1435
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 4: first single was produced by Nick Low, the first Protect single,

1436
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 4: and because you knew I was a fan of Nick Low,

1437
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 4: when we went in the studio to do the only

1438
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 4: recording that I did with The Pretenders, we got Nick

1439
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 4: Low to produce it. So I eventually got to work

1440
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 4: with Nick Low on a couple of songs great man,

1441
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 4: Oh cool, So let's stop your sobbing You're on that?

1442
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:20,480
Speaker 3: Or that's the one.

1443
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 4: That's the one Nick Low produced that came out when

1444
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 4: I was a kid. But we did one for this

1445
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 4: movie Night in sixty nine where we did the Stooges song,

1446
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 4: we did Windows of the World but Bacarrack song, and

1447
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 4: we did nighteteen sixty nine bad Stooges, and we did

1448
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 4: it in one take, and Nick was like, hey, listen,

1449
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 4: I know my reputation is that I just say one take,

1450
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 4: but really the first take was the take, and we

1451
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 4: did it about four times and then it was right,

1452
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 4: one take, But Yeah, it was cool.

1453
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 3: Awesome, thanks for sharing that.

1454
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: This for me is like a dream.

1455
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 6: I could just sit here like all day. There's many

1456
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 6: more questions I have, but I feel really lucky that

1457
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 6: I could save this for when we meet again, Johnny.

1458
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:06,480
Speaker 6: But absolutely, yeah, always a pleasure to be continued.

1459
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, What is.

1460
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,439
Speaker 6: That amp next to those books up there? There's like

1461
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 6: it looks like a little like a plexi.

1462
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's one of those little Freedman plexis.

1463
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 4: It's it's well, it's called a it's just called a plexi.

1464
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 4: It's a mini plexi.

1465
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 1: You have a Freedman.

1466
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a couple of Freedman's. Yeah I didn't know. Okay, yeah,

1467
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 4: I don't know whether that's made, but I think that's

1468
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 4: made by Freedman. But it's called a plexi. What I

1469
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 4: did that? You know that thing where a few years

1470
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 4: ago one of my friends said to me, listen, and

1471
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,440
Speaker 4: you've got to get this. You're not going to believe it.

1472
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:42,680
Speaker 4: It's like actually fifteen fifteen what Yeah, it's so so

1473
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 4: good man.

1474
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like you say, the technology, the way that you

1475
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,759
Speaker 6: can dial things up so easily, whether it's getting things

1476
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 6: that sound grade in a small you know, less wattage,

1477
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 6: so you get more tone at lower volumes. It's really

1478
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 6: to our advance these days. It's in a way that

1479
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 6: it wasn't prior.

1480
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 4: Oh do you know about this? I know we can

1481
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 4: go on forever this, but do you know about these synergies,

1482
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 4: these little this company synergy they make They just so

1483
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:14,559
Speaker 4: this is like this is this is it the kemper

1484
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 4: or no, above the above the kemper? You have this

1485
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 4: one you thing and then these modules pull out and

1486
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 4: there's a Bogner now Freedman aerplexi offender, and they're doing

1487
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 4: it all in conjunction with the they're doing it with

1488
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 4: the companies. So it start like they're ripping the companies

1489
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 4: offer anything right right?

1490
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:37,719
Speaker 6: Oh man?

1491
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 4: And they sounded so good for at home. Yeah.

1492
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 2: Wow, Hey, John, I just want to say that you

1493
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,599
Speaker 2: know this, this has been six years in the making,

1494
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 2: and first of all, when when we played with you,

1495
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 2: we couldn't believe it, but you were just it was

1496
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 2: a dream to play with you. And finally like we

1497
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 2: get to have this conversation six years down the line, Kurr,

1498
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 2: thank you for making sure that we kept this appointment

1499
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 2: and that we saw this through and uh, we just

1500
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 2: want to thank you for being on on on this

1501
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 2: platform and and and and talking to us, just talking shot.

1502
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 4: It's fantastic. Thank you for inviting me. It's so good

1503
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 4: to see you guys again. It's been too long and

1504
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 4: I hope it's not as long again. And you know,

1505
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 4: every every time I see you, so it's it's it's

1506
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 4: always a joice great like I recognize a musicians, you know.

1507
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you well on behalf of Captain Kirk Douglas,

1508
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 2: our special guest and uh, Sir Steve and unpaid Bill

1509
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: and the entire Q and Lust family. This is a

1510
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,639
Speaker 2: Quest Love and we'll see on the next program.

1511
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. Posted by

1512
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: a Mere Quest Love.

1513
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 7: Thompson, Are you Saying Clear? Fante Sugar, Steve Mandel, Unpaid

1514
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:02,559
Speaker 7: Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Amir quest Love, Thompson, Seean

1515
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 7: Che and Brian Calvin. Produced by Britney, Benjamin Cousin, Jake Paine,

1516
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:16,719
Speaker 7: Elaiah Saint Clair, edited by Alex Convoy. Produced by iHeart

1517
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:17,679
Speaker 7: by Noel Brown.

1518
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,600
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

1519
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1520
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.