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Speaker 1: H wells up, Denver. O, my god, we're going to

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Speaker 1: need hearing aids after this city. I swear to God.

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Speaker 2: I I always forget that's gonna happen until I start

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Speaker 2: walking on stage, and then it's like surprises me.

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Speaker 1: Wow, wow, Hi.

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Speaker 2: Thank you guys for being here. Oh my god, Denver,

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Speaker 2: this is this has been real.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks for being so patient these six years and

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Speaker 1: waiting for us to come back, come back.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate that, we do. I'm really mad though,

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Speaker 2: because she has a sign and she's not wrong. What's

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Speaker 2: it says, Georgia, you promised air guitar. Do you remember? No,

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Speaker 2: I said, if we ever go back on tour, I'll

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Speaker 2: do air guitar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but I need music, but I need here's music here. Wait,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it.

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Speaker 2: Vince not the worst.

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Speaker 1: She clearly didn't think we were ever going to come

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Speaker 1: back on the stage. I think that's what we can

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Speaker 1: interpret from them.

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Speaker 2: I'm in a barf. That was just adair guitar and

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Speaker 2: nothing on stage, and.

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Speaker 1: That's what we do here, and that's what we do.

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Speaker 2: So last night, was anyone here last night?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Thank you front Row. I don't know the rest of

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Speaker 2: them were at Lincoln Park.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you assholes, we know, we know what you're like

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Speaker 1: back there.

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Speaker 2: Last night was fun because we forgot how to do this.

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Speaker 2: It was our first night back in six years.

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Speaker 1: We just kept calling line line over and over and

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Speaker 1: no one had those stripped in hand. That's terrible.

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Speaker 2: We forgot the basics. But tonight is gonna be fucking like, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Get oh, like this is the podcast my favorite murder.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's one of them.

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Speaker 2: That's Karen Kilgarrett.

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Speaker 1: That's Charge of Heartstar.

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Speaker 2: We literally forgot to do that last didn't do it

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Speaker 2: like we literally forgot to introduce ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Simply didn't introduce ourselves or the show like true show

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Speaker 1: business professionals.

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Speaker 2: It was But you know what did happen is a

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Speaker 2: moth like flew out of my dress and just hung

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Speaker 2: out on stage all night. Yeah, it was pretty special.

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Speaker 1: The moth was the third lead of the show last night.

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Speaker 1: And then we found out that you guys love moths.

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Speaker 1: You're apparently crazy.

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Speaker 2: They're good luck, right. Why doesn't anyone ever like I'm

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Speaker 2: the only person who knows that I made it up.

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Speaker 1: She made it up. That's the thing with when you're

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Speaker 1: the only person that knows something because you're just lying, mothster.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, like in Silence of the Lambs, you know

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Speaker 1: that very lines. Someone made a bracelet for us last

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Speaker 1: night that said, may I use your phone? Please?

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Speaker 2: But you know you know right? Yeah, and you went

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Speaker 2: to a baseball game, right, Oh, the first day I

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Speaker 2: was here, we my sister, who was very bossy, told

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Speaker 2: me that I had to go to the Rocky Stadium

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Speaker 2: and see what was going on over there.

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Speaker 1: Just so happened they were playing the Young San Francis.

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Speaker 1: I know it's probably called something else where. This isn't

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Speaker 1: about correct details. I hope you know that. So they

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Speaker 1: were playing the young San Francisco Giants where I'm from.

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Speaker 1: So it was just like, you know, all good and

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Speaker 1: then except.

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Speaker 2: There was a fight in the even better. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it was a good come on.

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Speaker 1: And I went down there. I was like, why don't

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Speaker 1: you guys act more like hockey players? And they're like

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Speaker 1: fun and then they did, no, it's gorgeous, it's beautiful

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Speaker 1: the sunset. I was like, yeah, I get it. I

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Speaker 1: get donever you get sports?

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Speaker 2: Oh done, yes, sure sports.

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Speaker 1: We were like we stood there for half an hour,

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Speaker 1: kind of looked around. They were like, gorgeous. Okay, here

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Speaker 1: we go. We'll find out the score later. And what

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Speaker 1: have you been doing.

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Speaker 2: I went to a vintage store yesterday because you have to,

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Speaker 2: and I found this literal fucking dress there. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's called and take a pack, So just go ahead

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Speaker 1: and show everybody look at her.

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Speaker 2: Go no pockets because vintage doesn't really do that.

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Speaker 1: They won't do it.

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Speaker 2: They're so like women don't need pockets, they need a handbag.

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Speaker 2: You know, we cock you. It's called it was called

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Speaker 2: I got. I just said the name of the bombshell.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, bombshell Vintage, very fucking awesome.

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Speaker 1: Store promo code murder, Oh I.

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Speaker 2: Forgot my ring shit, Wow, show's over. Wait gold Mine.

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Speaker 2: It was called gold Mine. And Shanks.

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Speaker 1: Is should dance? Come out and just say hi for

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Speaker 1: one second.

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Speaker 2: Harry is right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Harry is my husband.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: We decided that's our new thing for this tours. We're

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Speaker 1: going to do a lot of this at each other.

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Speaker 2: Everybody here.

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Speaker 1: That phony because we're so humble.

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Speaker 2: You know, you guys know that about us.

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Speaker 1: Bless and blessed, be and bless you.

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Speaker 2: This is a Christian true crime comedy.

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Speaker 1: But no, it's not. That's the reveal. In these six

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Speaker 1: years we have married christ and dedicated our lives.

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Speaker 2: You came to the wrong show. What else?

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Speaker 1: Also, I'll show my dress?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, show your dress. I'm sorry. Pockets, Pockey's what

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Speaker 2: you're having?

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Speaker 3: There?

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Speaker 1: A little lip gloss in case my mouth gets so

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Speaker 1: dry that my lipstick to my teeth.

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Speaker 2: Showbiz baby me? Uh cool? Well, I forgot to put

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Speaker 2: the kleanux in my spanks tonight, so my nose is

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Speaker 2: just gonna free run for the whole show.

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Speaker 1: Let it go. It's your show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I think. Oh, I found out that nervous

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Speaker 2: nose running is a thing, so that's what I have.

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Speaker 2: Everything fucking knows that I have.

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Speaker 1: You're suffering from NNR.

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Speaker 2: That's terrible.

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Speaker 1: So sorry.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to suffer alone.

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Speaker 1: If you suffer from NNR or someone in your family does,

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Speaker 1: I might.

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Speaker 2: Need a two shoe ban some I'm sorry. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We just keep making them come out over and over.

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Speaker 1: That's the new bit, that's the new.

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Speaker 2: App Oh my god, never mind, she has Oh we're good.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, classy, very classy, thank you, angel.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: See see how it is?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my god, I almost stuck that sticker the open

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Speaker 2: here on my chest because that's what I do when

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Speaker 2: I like eat an apple. I put the sticker on myself.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thanks Dance. He's clearly not watching the show backstage.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding, just kidding.

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Speaker 2: I thought you guys were really upset about my apple eating.

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Speaker 1: No, oh wait a second, I think we do have

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Speaker 1: to talk about the hometowns from Lesson. Look, some of

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Speaker 1: you were there, and you know, we just want to

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Speaker 1: talk about how it was for us. First of all,

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Speaker 1: a woman named Katie sat front and center dressed as

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Speaker 1: a hot dog, and we were like, this is the best.

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Speaker 1: And then we're like, great, you can be the audience

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Speaker 1: ambassador and teach us how to pronounce everything that we're

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Speaker 1: going to mispronounce in this town. And she's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not from here. We're like, fuck you, Katie.

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Speaker 2: And when we met her later, she was like, I

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Speaker 2: really thought a lot more people would dress like hot Dog.

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Speaker 1: She thought her more like, we're hot Dog cosplay live

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Speaker 1: podcast comedy show. Elli.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, actually cosplay hot Dog.

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Speaker 1: So many corners to touch negotiate, but this was my favorite.

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Speaker 1: This truly is It is a misunderstanding we didn't. Truly,

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Speaker 1: we didn't know our line. So when it came to

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Speaker 1: the part we we're supposed to tell people like, hey,

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Speaker 1: here's the rules for hometowns. People want you to do

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Speaker 1: it local, you know, don't take too long, blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't say any of that. We're just like,

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Speaker 1: get up here and til your hometown. And so the

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Speaker 1: first person, her name was Katie. Also, I think if

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Speaker 1: I'm I.

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Speaker 2: Have no fucking clue.

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Speaker 1: But I could just be like, look, everyone's name Katie.

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Speaker 1: But she came up and we were like, Hi, what's

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Speaker 1: your name? She's like Katie, and we're like, where are

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Speaker 1: you from? And she was like Roward, Florida. And the

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Speaker 1: entire audience starts booing, don't do it again, don't do

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Speaker 1: it again.

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Speaker 2: We didn't say it's totally on us, Like, we didn't say,

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Speaker 2: what's on them too.

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Speaker 1: This is not Lincoln Park, for Fox's sake. Be nice.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to be nice. You have to be nice.

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Speaker 1: But she basically said Roward, Florida and then stood there smiling,

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Speaker 1: and we're.

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Speaker 2: Just like, we go, what's your hometown?

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Speaker 1: And she was like Roward, Florida, And we're like thanks

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Speaker 1: so much, and she walked off the stage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But then later we met her in the VIP and

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Speaker 1: she was like, oh, no, I had a story. I

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Speaker 1: just got scared and left the stage. See what I

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Speaker 1: mean about what you did?

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Speaker 2: So here's actually, here's a good tip. If you really

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Speaker 2: want to do a hometown stop drinking now, yes, because

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Speaker 2: it's scary up here and being ship face is not

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Speaker 2: help with it, right, But I guess it does a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And if you really want to do a hometown and

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Speaker 1: you can't stop drinking now, you're an alcoholic. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to get from this show lot to glean

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Speaker 1: from the show.

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Speaker 2: Hey, shall we sit down?

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Speaker 1: I guess so.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Did remember that line last night? That was a huge release?

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Speaker 2: I sure did?

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Speaker 1: We knew to sit wo?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, let's cheer for the logo designed by Georgia Hartstark.

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Speaker 1: Does everybody know that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? But like the notes app or something gonna say

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Speaker 2: it in twenty sixteen, Yeah, wow, something like this.

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Speaker 1: Okayi's podcast. Do you want this to be the logo? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, do you want this to be the

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Speaker 1: theme song? She's like yes, and I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's do this thing. We'll quit in three weeks.

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Speaker 2: And we did, and we do you want to tell

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Speaker 2: them about this podcast?

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is a true crime comedy podcast. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Some people don't like that combination, they don't

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Speaker 1: like the idea. They get very sensitive about it. So

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Speaker 1: we do want to tell you that the reason that

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Speaker 1: we do this podcast is because we have loved true

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Speaker 1: crime since we were young, because we're incredibly traumatized by

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Speaker 1: our childhoods. And one of the ways that we deal

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Speaker 1: with our trauma is through humor and comedy, and the

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Speaker 1: other way is by reading a lot of true crime.

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Speaker 1: And we found that combination to be very satisfying when

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Speaker 1: we met each other.

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Speaker 2: Cathartic even, say, I would say.

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Speaker 1: And so we know that there are people who would

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Speaker 1: argue or maybe have other things to say, and what

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Speaker 1: we would like to say is get the fuck out

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Speaker 1: right now. It'd be so fun if like the entire

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Speaker 1: first three rows were like we're gone someday.

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Speaker 2: Someday, it's like that the bus from the senior center

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Speaker 2: accidentally stop here, and it's just like a whole fucking

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Speaker 2: row of Grandma's.

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Speaker 1: Just like that. But that happened in Florida. I remember

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Speaker 1: the live show and we had a live sho show

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Speaker 1: in Florida. Stop booing Broward, Florida. We had this live

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Speaker 1: show in Florida and there were these two women who

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Speaker 1: were older, and they were all dressed up and very

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Speaker 1: fancy looking but total someone's fancy grandma's. And I couldn't

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Speaker 1: stop looking them the whole time, where I'm like, who's

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Speaker 1: fancy grandmas? Are these that are here at our live

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Speaker 1: show in Florida? And we met them afterwards and they

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Speaker 1: were seasoned ticket holders that were like what's this? And

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Speaker 1: they fucking came to this swear fest murder fucking show

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Speaker 1: where we were like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: But did we win them over? We sure fucking listeners,

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Speaker 2: Yeah we did. Yeah, So if you don't like it,

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Speaker 2: there are grandma's better than you out there in Florida,

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Speaker 2: for fox sake, Florida, So like.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine?

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Speaker 2: Eving mean, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: We were working through a lot of emotions. It's so

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Speaker 1: exciting to be here tonight. It is so exciting, it

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Speaker 1: really is.

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Speaker 2: Uh it is I think your first tonight, I am.

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Speaker 2: I double checked yeah yeah, And then I said to Mollie,

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Speaker 2: we should really have that in the header of our

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Speaker 2: like when they print the stories and she's it's there,

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Speaker 2: it's there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just read the paper.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you are fucking smart. You should probably tell us. Anyways.

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Speaker 1: I love working with you, Love working with you. Oh

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Speaker 1: and Molly also sent us all of our lines.

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Speaker 2: What I was a little that's a little passive aggressive

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Speaker 2: of her says, what are.

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Speaker 1: You wearing tonight? Karen?

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Speaker 2: It says it says, what's up city, what's up city?

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Speaker 2: I think you got that one. At least I'm not

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Speaker 2: having a hot flash tonight. I literally had a hot

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Speaker 2: flash on stage line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you better. You got to represent the Perry and

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Speaker 1: the menopausals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, when I was at lunch today, Vince and I

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Speaker 2: were at this bar and because of course we were

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Speaker 2: and two seats down, I just out of the corner of.

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Speaker 1: My ear, corner of your ear.

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Speaker 2: Absolute uh oh, I think I hear, oh a hot flash.

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Speaker 2: And I turn and look and she's taking a little

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Speaker 2: portable fan out of her purse, and I just like rebonded.

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Speaker 2: I was like, did you just say hot flash like

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Speaker 2: I did? And just yourself brilliant Anyway, Karen.

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Speaker 1: Your first night. Anytime you have a story like that,

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Speaker 1: please jump in. All right, So maybe some of you

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Speaker 1: were here when we played the Belco Theater in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: I thank you. That was an awesome show. Those are

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Speaker 1: all my cousins. So that night when we played the Bellco.

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Speaker 1: And sorry to keep on mentioning the rival theater of Paramount,

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Speaker 1: but I told the story of the Colorado cannibal Alfred Packer.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I agree, so really quick before

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Speaker 1: I get into my story, which is not that story,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to just refresh you about that story

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Speaker 1: because it is a part of this current news story.

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Speaker 1: If you understand what I'm saying, do you there, I'm here.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to focus more on you. I think it

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Speaker 1: will help more ow me the story. It's your thing more.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they're all drag along.

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Speaker 1: We didn't talk about the drag along.

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Speaker 2: We didn't.

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Speaker 1: It's supposed to go at the top of the speech

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Speaker 1: about get the fuck out. But it's fine.

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Speaker 2: Mollie was right about the notes. Okay.

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Speaker 1: She's like, if you could just read them quickly before

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Speaker 1: you walk on stage, and we're like, no, no, we'll

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Speaker 1: read them on stage after we forget them. It's the

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Speaker 1: new show business.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So back in February of eighteen seventy four, Alfred Packer

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Speaker 1: was one of six gold miner or prospectors I think

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Speaker 1: it is more accurate, and they got lost in the

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Speaker 1: San Juan Mountains during one of the worst winter storms

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Speaker 1: Colorado had ever seen. When the storm lets up, Alfred

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Speaker 1: is the only survivor. He walks into the Indian agency,

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Speaker 1: claiming that the rest of the group left him behind

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Speaker 1: when his feet became frozen. Mean, so he says he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know where they are, but authorities start to get

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Speaker 1: suspicious about him. When Alfred, who was known to be penniless,

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Speaker 1: buys a horse and a saddle and starts drinking and

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Speaker 1: playing a lot of cards in this saloon.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't just eat them, he steals from them, Like

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Speaker 2: that's not it's.

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Speaker 1: So who knows? So they start questioning him further, and

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Speaker 1: that's when he admits that he did eat the other

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Speaker 1: five people in that party. But he's basically the whole

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Speaker 1: story was I was lost for a month. It was

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Speaker 1: pure desperation. He tells the whole story. Unfortunately, a little

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Speaker 1: while later, an illustrator from Harper's Bizarre magazine is out

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Speaker 1: here figuring out what the wild West is about, and

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Speaker 1: he comes upon five dead bodies that are lined up

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Speaker 1: on a riverbank and they've all been smashed in the

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Speaker 1: head with a hatchet, and one of them is decapitated,

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Speaker 1: and that those are the rest of the party Alfred

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Speaker 1: Packer was traveling with. So wow, his story suddenly comes

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Speaker 1: into question.

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Speaker 2: Listen to me gasping, even though I was definitely there

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Speaker 2: for the story. Yes, I don't remember it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all new. Yeah, Yeah, that's the fun of this.

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Speaker 1: So he's arrested, tried, found guilty on five counts of

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Speaker 1: voluntary manslaughter, sentenced to forty years in prison, which is

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Speaker 1: a huge sentence. Back then, he files appeal after appeal

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Speaker 1: with the help of a friend, but they're all denied.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen oh one, he gets paroled. It's less than

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Speaker 1: halfway through his sentence. So today I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: you about that friend that held Alfred Packer. Take two

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Speaker 1: that helped Alfred Packer, the Colorado cannibal, you go free

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Speaker 1: from jail. This person was not a lawyer, not a politician.

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Speaker 1: She was a gossip writer turned investigative journalist. Who made

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Speaker 1: her name writing stories that earned her both respect and infamy.

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Speaker 1: And she was the first female reporter that the Denver

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Speaker 1: Post ever hired. You might know her by her you

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Speaker 1: might know her by her pen named Polly Prye. This

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Speaker 1: is the life story of Nell Campbell. Hell, yeah, right.

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Speaker 2: Great great.

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Speaker 1: The sources for that were used in this story today

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Speaker 1: are a book by Julia Brooklin called The Woman Who

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Speaker 1: Wrote the West, And there's around Polly Prie and Nell Campbell.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of mythologizing, of course, when it's like

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Speaker 1: old history like that, and she herself was kind of

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Speaker 1: a sensationalist, sensational journalist for some part of her career.

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Speaker 1: And Julia Brooklyn gets in and basically steps separates all

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Speaker 1: the fact from fiction and is amazing. That's all from Maren.

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Speaker 1: I have not read this book. I don't stolen valor.

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Speaker 1: I didn't read the book. There's also an article from

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Speaker 1: Colorado Life magazine by Matt Massich, and the rest of

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Speaker 1: the sources are in our show notes. You can check those,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 2: And guys show your favorite thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so here we go. Liam Nell Campbell nicknamed Nell,

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Speaker 1: is born November twenty seventh, eighteen fifty nine in Clinton, Illinois.

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Speaker 1: She's said to have lied about her birthday to everyone

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Speaker 1: for her whole life, but Julia Britlan verifies that this

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Speaker 1: is actually her real birthday. Okay, thank you. Julia. Nell's

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Speaker 1: parents are relatively wealthy, wealthy enough that she's educated at

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Speaker 1: a private boarding school. That's rich. Yeah, but it's back

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Speaker 1: in a time where women are expected to blend in,

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Speaker 1: and Nell very much stands out. She's very striking. Now, this,

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Speaker 1: this was a funny experience for me today when I

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Speaker 1: was going over all this. She's very striking. Her looks

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Speaker 1: are described as kind of an alienish beauty that supermodels have.

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Speaker 1: She has a symmetrical face with a mix of classically

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Speaker 1: feminine and masculine features, with a prominent jaw and oversized,

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Speaker 1: piercing cat like eyes. Can we take a look at Nell?

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine, all right, look at her gaze and off.

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Speaker 1: That literally looks like my grandma in a nightgown, who

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Speaker 1: was alien supermodel like her whole life.

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Speaker 2: I love the outphit. I almost wore that.

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Speaker 1: I mean that is she is Christmas Tree coded right now,

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Speaker 1: isn't she?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: She also has a tendency to literally do whatever she

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Speaker 1: wants at all times. She does not care about societal conventions.

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Speaker 1: One of us, one of us, one of us. For example,

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Speaker 1: she poses for this incredibly contraver maveral photograph. If you

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Speaker 1: are under eighteen, please cover your eyes and pray to

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Speaker 1: your chosen God. Let's take a look. Oh my god, f.

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Speaker 2: That is gorgeous. Slat my god. That's the rug from

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Speaker 2: tonight too.

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Speaker 1: So okay, thank you.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: In her relationship with her first husband, George Henry Anthony Junior,

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Speaker 1: you know there's a problem when he has three first names. Absolutely,

401
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Speaker 1: it happened every single time. We don't know how the

402
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: first two, we don't know how they met. Nell's flair

403
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Speaker 1: for drama and exaggeration makes it very hard to pin down.

404
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Speaker 1: For example, she claims that she was just a teenager

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Speaker 1: when she met him and that he was in his fifties,

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Speaker 1: but actually, in reality, she was in her mid twenties

407
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Speaker 1: and he was almost thirty.

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Speaker 2: What a weird brag, right.

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Speaker 1: She's like, well, that old man snapped me.

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Speaker 2: Rather, I was a child, just a child.

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Speaker 1: The thing about it, though, is he was a married

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Speaker 1: father of two. No, that's a big no. When when

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Speaker 1: his wife finds out. Of course, she gives him the boot.

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Speaker 1: She files for a divorce, which is very scandalous at

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Speaker 1: the time. It's eighteen eighty three. Georgia Knell then marry

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Speaker 1: a few months afterwards in Saint Louis. And so this

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Speaker 1: story is not someone cheered for Saint Louis. This story,

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Speaker 1: yeah you can. This story is not about George Anthony

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Speaker 1: Henry Anthony Junior, but it's worth it to digress to

420
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Speaker 1: talk about him because he is kind of the worst.

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Speaker 1: He's also he's a he's a bum husband. He's a

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Speaker 1: bum father. He's also a nepo baby. He's the son

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Speaker 1: of the seventh Senator of oh sorry, the seventh governor

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Speaker 1: of Kansas, and his success in life is fully just

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Speaker 1: brought to him by his rich father, who helps him

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Speaker 1: get one pristie just job after another. So when he's

427
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Speaker 1: in his late twenties, he's given a job at Levenworth Prison,

428
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Speaker 1: replacing an experienced employee already holding the post. It's so

429
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Speaker 1: baffling that the local newspaper actually reports quote to take

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Speaker 1: away a man of experience and judgment and put in

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Speaker 1: a white headed boy seems like a folly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't book around in a prison with employees, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: that's the wrong go to a bank and buck around.

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Speaker 1: It's not very Nepo baby to go to live Levenworth

435
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Speaker 1: and I feel like I'd love to spend a lot

436
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Speaker 1: of time here. Then, in the mid eighteen eighties, he's

437
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: handed yet another high paying gig which he has no

438
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: business doing, which is working on the Mexican Central Railroad.

439
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: He leaves that job then to start a lumber company

440
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Speaker 1: with his father and go cut down Mexican forests. Just

441
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: bad after bad, he and Nell moved from Mexico to

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Speaker 1: Texas to Kansas City and the whole time, Sure, the

443
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: whole time, Nel plays the role of her rich housewife.

444
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: She throws parties and entertains guests, and she keeps up appearances.

445
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: But after four years she gets bored and she's done,

446
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: so the marriage is on the rocks and she files

447
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: for divorce. Scandal. George goes crawling back to his ex

448
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: wife after this four years four years while Nell ditches

449
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: high society and heads to New York City with all

450
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: of her cash, jewelry and expensive furs. But as we

451
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: all know, New York's a very expensive town, so she

452
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: burns through that cash right quick. And this is before

453
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: alimony or spousal support, so obviously her role at this

454
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: time in America would be to find another rich guy

455
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: to marry. But she's done with that life. She wants

456
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: to earn a living as a songwriter and actress.

457
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: I mean that sounds pretty sweet, honey, honey, honey.

458
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: So she finds him, befriends a very creative group of

459
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: New York writers and editors and publishers, and they recognize

460
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: that Nell actually does have something very special about her.

461
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: She's fiery, she's smart, and she is not easily intimidated

462
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: by other people. So she's offered assignments with their newspapers

463
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: like the New York Herald and the New York Journal,

464
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: but she's it's mostly gossip calumnists and society reporting. But

465
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: it turns out Nell's made for that job. She has

466
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: this amazing ability to get people talking and telling stories,

467
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: and that gets her the nickname Polly Prye.

468
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 2: Now what is it, Polly Priye? She just gets them

469
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: shit based. I bet yeah, my name right, that's the

470
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: way to do it.

471
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: Like two compliments, three shots. Now you're telling me everything

472
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: about your life, that's right, and you might remember I

473
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: covered the story of Nellie Bly, who was the female reporter.

474
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: Her real name was Elizabeth Cochrane, and she's the one

475
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: that went into the insane asylum and basically exposed how

476
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: horrible that New York City Insane Asylum was. So basically

477
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: people think that Polly Prye is like a little play

478
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: on Nellie Bly. Okay, because that was ten years before.

479
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: Got it this time just trying to put it in

480
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: a timeline based on all the stories I've done on

481
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: this podcast and nothing else. So now it's the eighteen

482
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: nineties and Nella's in her mid thirties, so two she

483
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: has a big family. Two of her younger brothers have tuberculosis,

484
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: and so her family moves to Colorado because the air

485
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: is apparently very dry here, good of you guys, and

486
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: filled with moths. So after one of these younger brothers

487
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: dies from the disease, nell decides she's going to leave

488
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: New York City and come to Denver to be with

489
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: her family. So after about a year, she is on

490
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: a train and she sits across from this man that

491
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: she doesn't know who is old fashioned style holding up

492
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: a newspaper when he's reading it. Just doesn't happen anymore

493
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: unless you're trying to hide from the cops. So she

494
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: sees that this newspaper had done their headlines in red,

495
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: and she goes, how awful. And the owner of the

496
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: newspaper is the guy holding the newspaper. Yes, that's right.

497
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: You just insult people by opening your mouth. It's a

498
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: fun thing to do. Yeah, I do it all the time,

499
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: the story of my life.

500
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't mean it like that. So this man

501
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: is Frederick Gilmer Ballfi and he is the co owner

502
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: of the Denver Evening Post, which is now the Denver Post,

503
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: and it is Colorado's newspaper of record. So Nell who

504
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: of course, Nell's very embarrassed, but she's no stranger to

505
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: putting her foot in her mouth, and she's very good

506
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: at charming people. And basically she recovers she charms Frederick.

507
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: He invites her to dinner. They go eat in the

508
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: dining car. They have this wonderful meal, and essentially it

509
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: goes so well that by the end he offers her

510
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: a job. Yep, and so so bad things happen and

511
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: then you can get a job after Just believe believe

512
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: that if you insult men enough, they'll give you a job.

513
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.

514
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: So it works. So at this point in Denver history,

515
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: the city's population is booming and there's a serious competition

516
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: between the local newspapers for readers. So Frederick and his

517
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: business partner Harry Tammin, they really want to win the

518
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 1: Colorado newspaper wars. Let me take a look at Harry

519
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: and Frederick. Oh, supermodels, alien life in their beauty. Yeah,

520
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: leylak Rich doesn't look like he just pulled that mustache

521
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: out of his pocket.

522
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: It was just a bunch of moths. We can land

523
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: it on his face.

524
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: The problem is really a problem, and they all fly away.

525
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: But what's one big one anyway. Oh so, fortunately for them,

526
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: they have a real edge in the newspaper wars because

527
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: they've just hired good old Nell Campbell Polly Prye, who

528
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: pulls no punches. So the Denver Post is primed for victory.

529
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: And right off the bat Nell's first interview makes waves.

530
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: It's with a political candidate who's running for senator, and

531
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: Nell makes no bones about how she feels about this man.

532
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: She writes, quote, if tones could freeze, the marrow in

533
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: my bones would have congealed then in there the voice

534
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: of the would be senator was so icily unfriendly.

535
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: Wow, how would you say that? What a dick?

536
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: Fucking dick. She also describes him as quote tall, thin, nervous,

537
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: and irritable, with a harsh voice and cold gray eyes.

538
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: And she also goes on to warn the public that

539
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: if he wins the Senate race, political cartoonists will have

540
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: a field day with him.

541
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: Wow, damn it.

542
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: And you're just like this skinny, nervous guy that's like,

543
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: god damn it, just trying to make a living. Why

544
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: did I talk to that? God damn woman? Author Julia

545
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: Brickling writes, quote no, sorry, it's not a quote yet

546
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: that Nell now begins to gravitate toward exposing quote those

547
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: she considered particularly out of touch with progressive politics, hypocritical,

548
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: right or entitled, or perhaps all of these things. So

549
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 1: she's after it. She's doing it. She is holding their

550
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: feet to the fire in a time where women and

551
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: don't hold me this because I'm not sure, but I

552
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: don't think they could vote yet, pretty fucking sure that

553
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: we couldn't. Here come the emails explaining to me how

554
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: dumb I am. But Nell is fearless in her reporting,

555
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: she publishes hit pieces on Reverends, on city officials, even

556
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: Colorado socialites like the famous philanthropist and Titanic survivor, the

557
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: unsingable Molly Brown.

558
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: She goes after Molly.

559
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: She goes fucking after an unkillable socialite.

560
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: Wow.

561
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: But despite that, she actually calls her in one of

562
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: her columns, quote the worst kind of social climber.

563
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: Damn.

564
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: I get. This was probably before she almost froze to

565
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: death in the icy waters of the North Sea. Despite this,

566
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Nell and Molly eventually become friends. Yeah, girl power. Nell's

567
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: work is pretty polarizing. Many readers wonder who the hell

568
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: this woman thinks she is and why that she's not

569
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: making them flaky fresh biscuits instead of writing. But her

570
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: bluntness and her brashness make her a standout. She's not

571
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: afraid to ask the hard questions, to show up uninvited,

572
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: or to name names, and because of that, her readers

573
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: devour her articles. So now we're in eighteen ninety nine,

574
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: and since Nell's bosses at the Post are always looking

575
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: for ways to sell more newspapers, they figure what better

576
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: way to do that than to send their firecracker Lady

577
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: reporter out to check on the Colorado Cannibal himself, and

578
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: Nell says, hell, yes, I'll go talk to that fucking cannibal.

579
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: Sounds good to shut up?

580
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like that all happens. Yes, and they're like, hey,

581
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: you piss everyone off. Why don't you go talk to

582
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: this murdering cannibal.

583
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: Here's another guy that pissed a bunch of people off, right.

584
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: Yikes.

585
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: So Nell travels one hundred miles south of Denver to

586
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: a prison in Canyon City.

587
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: You know what.

588
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like it's a great place. I don't know, Oh,

589
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: the prison or Okay, So she has to follow the

590
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: war and around she like shadows him to get the tour,

591
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: and she finds this prison extremely disturbing. She can't stop

592
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: thinking about the difficult life circumstances that led each inmate

593
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: to this awful place and how dark their futures are.

594
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: And she's disgusted to learn that members of the public

595
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: can pay twenty five cents to come and gawk at

596
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: the prisoners. Did you know that that was a thing

597
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: that I used to do?

598
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 2: What do they just stand and stay at?

599
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? After church? And how much do you think twenty

600
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: five cents was back.

601
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: Then, okay, and we're in eighteen it's.

602
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: Like eighteen ninety. I can't find that fucking piece of paper. Person.

603
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I'm going to go twelve dollars.

604
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: Ten dollars.

605
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: That was good. Oh if you're a drag along, that

606
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: was amazing. Like that was so clse. I know it

607
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: doesn't sound close, but it was really close.

608
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: I guessed like eight different moneies from a different time

609
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: with Georgia last night, and I was never within one

610
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars.

611
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: But he also does, we're not doing that anymore.

612
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that's right. That was the last one.

613
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: Thank god, goodbye, dumb thing. Okay, So ironically kind of,

614
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: Nella is introduced to Alfred Packer in the prison kitchen.

615
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: Oh I hear okay, yea, yeah, sos orbit for a second,

616
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's weird.

617
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: He is now around fifty eight years old, and nell

618
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: not surprisingly gets a very bad vibe from him. You

619
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: think she will describe him in an article, and this

620
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: is Maren what Maren wrote. She goes like he's describing

621
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: a cartoon devil. It says, quote dead black hair, glittering eyes,

622
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: sodie mustache, and goateea and sarcastic smile end quote.

623
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 2: That does. Yeah, there's a tiny moth right now for real? Yes,

624
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: like a teeny tiny one. Have you guys noticed it

625
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: or am I having now?

626
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: Do you think it's the same one from last night?

627
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: Do you think that one's dead?

628
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: No? I don't know what that went. Where that one

629
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: went maybe like this petticoat, But there's a teeny tiny one.

630
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Come on, Oh you're trying.

631
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: To get it to land.

632
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: Come on, we've all seen snow white. Damn.

633
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: That would be so cute.

634
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: We would have a whole different show if moths started

635
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: landing on her fingers.

636
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: See you see, I'm not going crazy.

637
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: What's the rule of the theater? No smoking, no children,

638
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: no live animals, And yet here we are contending with

639
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: this moth all night long. Try to focus everybody, Okay.

640
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: The kitchen meeting is quick, and she is very She

641
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: wants to spend more time with him, She wants to

642
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: talk to him more, so she sets up a formal

643
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: interview for the next day, but it doesn't start out

644
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: well because Alfred Packer, of course, is like, you're just

645
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: here to sensationalize me and to you know, make his

646
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: life worse.

647
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: And it's judge of him. I'm the judge of actually.

648
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: From his back, you know, it's like, give a little grace,

649
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: you eight five people. But when Nell gets Packer talking,

650
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: he starts telling her his version of this infamous story,

651
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: explaining to his account that they crossed the San Juan Mountains,

652
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: they got lost, supplies ran out. He claims, one man

653
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: lost his mind and started shooting at the others and

654
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: he he and so Alfred was forced to shoot the

655
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: shooter and kill him dead. So it's just self defense.

656
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: Oh so sorry. He's basically saying the shooter killed the

657
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: other four men than Alfred had to kill him. And

658
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: then he's like, no, no, I just had to eat everybody

659
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: because it's the age old.

660
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: Wasn't me.

661
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: He claims cannibalizing the dead men was just another act

662
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: of survival. So Nell is this is a convincing story.

663
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: To Nell, she's there with him face to face, and

664
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: she thinks this is compelling, and whether he was a

665
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: murder's cannibal or a man caught in an impossible position,

666
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: she sees this as a great way to start the

667
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: larger discussion of the difficulties that the accused face in

668
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: this country in the US justice system, which fuck yeah,

669
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: one hundred years ago, not not even clothes. She focuses

670
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: on whether or not Packer was actually fairly tried, not

671
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: so much about the cannibalism. She's able to brush cannibalism

672
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: aside for just a little while, And the more she investigates,

673
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: the more she's convinced that he was not. That there

674
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: was no hard evidence or eyewitnesses presented at his trial

675
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: that definitely proved that his story was false, and there

676
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: was a ton of hysteria and of course a ton

677
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: of sensational reporting that Nell believes led to his conviction.

678
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: So became hell bent on getting Alfred Packer justice. She

679
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: convinces her boss, Frederick Baalfi with the Moth Mustache, to

680
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: let her write sympathetic coverage of him in the Post,

681
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: because she wants her readers to envision a scenario where

682
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: they might somehow wind up in an impossible situation, convicted

683
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: of a crime based solely on circumstantial evidence, with no

684
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: way to advocate for yourself, minus the cannibalism, and minus

685
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: the cannibalism. So now it's a big job for Nell.

686
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: As Polly Pry everyone in America knows Alfred Packer as

687
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: the guy who ate five other guys, so this is

688
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: one of the Post's most incendiary reporters, basically vigorously defending

689
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: Alfred Packer. There's backlash, but when an opportunist lawyer named

690
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: William Anderson gets involved, it like ratchets things up a notch.

691
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: So this part of the story is a little fuzzy,

692
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: but essentially, this guy, William Anderson, tries to swindle money

693
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: from both the owners of the Post and from Alfred Packer,

694
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: saying that like he'll represent both of them, and he

695
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: takes retainer money from both. And then when the guys

696
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: from the Post find out they he did it to reporters,

697
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: it's like they'll find out. They're really good at finding

698
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: stuff out.

699
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: It's kind of their thing.

700
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: So they confront Anderson at the newspaper offices. So we

701
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: don't know which one, if it was Frederick or Harry,

702
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: but one of them directly accuses Anderson of having no ethics.

703
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: He threatens to get him disbarred unless he returns that money,

704
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: and then Frederick thinks he sees Anderson reaching for a weapon,

705
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: so he lunges at him and holds him down. Polly

706
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,479
Speaker 1: gets but like goes over it and tries to beg

707
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: them to stop fighting. As it turns out, Anderson does

708
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: have a gun on him, and so he wrestles himself free.

709
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: He grabs that gun. He fires it twice. He hits

710
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: both Frederick and Harry, and then when he steps forward

711
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: to finish Harry off with a third shot, Nell steps

712
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: in front of the gun and shields her boss. So

713
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: Harry Tannon will later say about this quote. Just as

714
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: Anderson was about to fire the third shot, Polly Prye

715
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: rushed between us. Had it not been for her, doubtless

716
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: I would have been killed. She placed herself in front

717
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: of his pistol and moved with it as he tried

718
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: to reach me. Badass.

719
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: Would you do that for your boss?

720
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: No fucking way. Well, I think there's a thing with

721
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: like guns, maybe because it was like Wild westy era

722
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: where it's like they were probably super used to guns

723
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: where people always like a church or it like falls

724
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: out of your pocket. Sorry, yeah, but stepping in front

725
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: of a gun.

726
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, it's some spin.

727
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: The good news is both of the owners of the

728
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: post survive. Anders Anderson is taken into custody for attempted murder,

729
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: and Nell becomes an outright legend. Stories start to circulate

730
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: that she's the one that wrestled the gun out of

731
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: Anderson's hand, and that her big skirts caught the bullets

732
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: that would have killed their bosses.

733
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: She wrote herself. Good for her, she deserves it. Yeah,

734
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 2: was more their typewriters back then.

735
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: In the end, Nell's reporting on Alfred Packer becomes creates

736
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: enough discourse that popular opinion about his crimes and conviction

737
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: actually does change. People seem to agree that it is

738
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: impossible to tell whether his story of self defense and

739
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: survival are true or if he maliciously killed those five men.

740
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: And that's what we call reasonable doubt in this country. Right.

741
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: So Alfred Packer winds up being paroled, not pardoned, and

742
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: in early oh he's paroled in early Jane of nineteen

743
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: oh one.

744
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: Okay, so she.

745
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: Nell delivers his release papers herself to him. Packer spends

746
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: the next six years as a freeman. He dies of

747
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: a stroke in nineteen oh seven, at the age of

748
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: sixty five, A devout vegetarian.

749
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 2: Just kidding, Oh, that was not very tasteful.

750
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: Oh, she loves a pun. She loves a pun.

751
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: Thank god, I didn't do the five guys joke. I

752
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, wait do it? No, that

753
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 2: was it. You guys were all thinking it your original

754
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: five guys.

755
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: Their bodies were laid out on the riverbed and a

756
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: shit ton of French fries over here, Like why so

757
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: many French fries? That's French fries for four.

758
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: Okay.

759
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: So her experience in interviewing Alfred Packer gets Nell really

760
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: fired up about the injustices of the American prison syst

761
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: so she starts reporting on it extensively. She works to

762
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: get other incarcerated people released from prison. She also investigates

763
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: the abuse and neglect inside the state run asylums here

764
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: wow yeah, And just like Nellie Bly, she also investigates

765
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: the treatment of patients in military hospitals. And she even

766
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: starts writing about the very at the time secretive practice

767
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: of polygamy within the Mormon Church. Girls. She doesn't give

768
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: a shit. I like her, Yeah, I do to you

769
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: like her more when you hear this. In nineteen oh three,

770
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: she gets a tip about the horrific conditions at the

771
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: Fort Lewis Indian School in Durango. So if you don't

772
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: know about Indian schools horrifying. I think people are hearing

773
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: about them more and more now. But this was one

774
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: of the many US runboarding schools that were built to

775
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: assimilate Native children to European American culture. They were horribly abusive,

776
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: and at the time, most white Americans did not know

777
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: or they did not care about those abuses against Native

778
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: American children. But Nell cared very much. So she starts

779
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: doing some digging, and she books a ten day trip

780
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: to Durango and just starts interviewing anyone that will talk

781
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: to her about these schools. She hears one horrible story

782
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: after another about children being denied medical care, being forced

783
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: to perform brutal labor, and being sexually abused by the

784
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: school superintendent, doctor Thomas Breen uh huh, who he was

785
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: also sexually assaulting teachers like it was fucking horrifying. Mayhem.

786
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: There's some bad stuff back then and now. Nell's reporting

787
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: on this school will later be described as some of

788
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: her most heartfelt, detailed, and deeply researched reporting of her career,

789
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: and like her Alfred Packer reporting, it actually creates change

790
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: in a small way, and that is that she gets

791
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: doctor Breen fired from his posts right, I like that

792
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: the power of journalism. Back in DC. The Bureau of

793
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: Indian Affairs is not happy with her. Of course, the

794
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: commissioner puts out a statement minimizing her reporting as quote

795
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: sensational newspaper attacks. Okay, okay, except for they were so specific,

796
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: though so specific. So the thing about Nellie is or

797
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: now sorry, is that around the same time she's also

798
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: writing scathing attacks on Colorado labor unions. She goes so

799
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: far as to accuse the leaders of exploiting the working

800
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: class and intentionally creating chaos. So this is not unusual

801
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: for a reporter of her time, and there may have

802
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: been corruption taken place, we all know it's everywhere, but

803
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: her writing on this issue veers into the highly problematic,

804
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: as many things were back then and unfortunately not uncommon.

805
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: She talks about things like class and immigration, immigration, writing

806
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: derogatory columns about the Irish immigrants moving to Colorado to

807
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: work in the mines. It's always just the different new

808
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: people that they want to attack, goddamn. So on one hand,

809
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: she tackles these amazing progressive issues like prison conditions and

810
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: the Native American boarding schools, and she also does some

811
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: articles about the treatment of black soldiers in the US Army.

812
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: She does a ton of stuff about William Women's suffrage,

813
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: but then she digs her heels in on this labor

814
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: issue and it's not good. She's blinded by her biases.

815
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: She doesn't seem to realize how contradictory her stances are,

816
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: and she doesn't care how much anger she's basically creating,

817
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: because that's kind of what she's like. Then, in the

818
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,959
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, she hears a knock at her door,

819
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: and when she opens it, a man standing there. He

820
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: fires twice. He's holding a gunny fires twice, but Nell

821
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: fucking starts to slam the door nice and early, so

822
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: the bullets get stuck in her nice big wooden door.

823
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: Wow Yeah, and the man runs away. He's never caught.

824
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: Nell assumes this man is somehow from the labor unions

825
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: and he's been sent to assassinate her. The labor unions

826
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: themselves suggest that maybe Nell staged the attack to drum

827
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: up publicity and sympthy, which is something that she had done,

828
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: and of course, to sell papers. It's also possible that

829
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: this man hated Nell for any of the other incendiary

830
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: reporting that she had done. Over the last decade, or

831
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: for the fact that she was just a woman. There

832
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: are so many reasons to hate her. But either way,

833
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: when she gets into this part of her career, her

834
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: stance on unions and then the controversial reporting that the

835
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: government gets mad about the Indian school atrocities, the Denver

836
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: Post fires. So here's the good news. It doesn't stop

837
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: her because at heart she really is this investigative reporter.

838
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: So at forty four years old, and this is like

839
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, she basically starts a sub

840
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: stack and she names it Polly Pry. It's a publication,

841
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: the only female led publication of the time, and it's great.

842
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: It's split into four sections. The first one is gossip,

843
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: of course, first and foremost. Second is Denver and Colorado Politics.

844
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: The third, oh sorry, the gossip section is called tell

845
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: the Truth and Shame the Devil, which is hilarious.

846
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 2: A that's a good one.

847
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: That's like saying Jesus wants you to gossip, Like shut up, now,

848
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: you are crazy girl. Another section on local theater, and

849
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: of course the last on automobiles.

850
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: Sure, it's like Bridriton.

851
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 1: Essentially, there's something for everyone. By September of nineteen oh three,

852
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: Nell has thirty five hundred subscribers to this.

853
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: Which, in today's people, that's a fucking lot of people, right.

854
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: To so many people for a woman writer. But then

855
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: not long after she creates it, she gets bored and

856
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: sells it because that's our girl, good right. Yeah, and

857
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: then she goes. She moves back to New York City,

858
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: and we don't know the kind of chronology of this,

859
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: but there she very quietly marries a man named Harry O'Brien,

860
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: and she's keeping it quiet because once again married with children, girl,

861
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: your favorite TV show. She basically does it all in

862
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: secret because she's deathly afraid that some other gossip columnist

863
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: is going to come and report on the gossip columnists

864
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: and her gossip.

865
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 2: Look column the kettle out.

866
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's our new T shirt. Get ready, everybody, God,

867
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm almost done. I swear togain. This marriage is short lived.

868
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: Nell divorces Harry a few years later because she learns

869
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: that he had another wife in a different state. Then

870
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: you gotta love them now. In her sixties, Nell heads

871
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: back out west and in nineteen oh eight. Oh, in

872
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: nineteen oh eight, she who wrote this because she really

873
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: misses Colorado. A few years later, she takes a job

874
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: at the Denver Times and she starts reporting on the

875
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: Mexican Revolution. She goes to Mexico and spends six weeks

876
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: trying to get an interview with the revolutionary Pancho Villa.

877
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: Holy shit, yes, and remember she used to live in

878
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: Mexico with her first three named husband, and so she

879
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: speaks the language. She works her magic, and she do

880
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: get a meeting with Pancho Villa. And in that interview,

881
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: she does the same shit she always does, call him okay,

882
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: she pulls no punches, and she claims later that at

883
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: one point she gets him so mad he turns red.

884
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: But then she turns the charm on. She wins him back,

885
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: and basically he invites her to interview him again sometime.

886
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: All right, so it all works out. That's according to her.

887
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: Others say she eight five men, I'm so tired of

888
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: reading this. The first of Neil's articles from Mexico is

889
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: published in April of nineteen fourteen. They're some of the

890
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: most popular pieces of the Denver Time has ever produced.

891
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: It reinvigorates her reporting career and she starts covering everything

892
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: from Colorado theater to the battles of World War One range.

893
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: She's also working hard to develop a local theater scene

894
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: in Denver. She produces plays and musicals to varying degrees

895
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: of success. Die to watch one of those on this

896
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: very stage. She's also an active member, of course, of

897
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: the Denver Women's Press Club, And we got some members

898
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: in the house tonight. You are fucking lying. The Denver

899
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: Women's Lying Club is more like it. Nell continues her

900
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: very vocal advocacy for women's suffrage and of course the

901
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: fight to get women in more newsrooms laugh page. It's

902
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: not until she's in her late seventies that Nell starts

903
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 1: to dial back her workload a bit. Oh can we

904
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: take a look at that last picture of Nell in

905
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: her later life?

906
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: Oh what happened? Why is she so cross? Hatch?

907
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's at Harper's bizarre illustrator

908
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: that's so fucked up from finding those five bodies on

909
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: the riverbank, And he was just like, I guess this

910
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: is what she looks like out a head at Wow.

911
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: Okay, that's kind of insulting. Well, that's what botox.

912
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: Is for it, I mean, for real, DOAXI five. It's

913
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: not until she's in her late seventies that Nell starts

914
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: to dial back her workload. But then on July fifteenth,

915
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, when she is seventy nine years old,

916
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: she suffers a heart attack and dies the next day.

917
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: The Denver Post writes about her final moments, saying, quote,

918
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: a moment before passing, with characteristic energy, she raises herself

919
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: from the bed and said to the attending nurse, I

920
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: must be up, and then she dies. Those are her

921
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: last words.

922
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 2: It's fucking sentence. Guess that sucks.

923
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: I must be up?

924
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

925
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, Nell was inducted to the Denver Press

926
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: Club Hall of Fame and right and biographer Julia Brooklin

927
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: says that the honor was something quote she might or

928
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: might not have coveted, depending on how she felt about

929
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: whomever was president of the organization at the time.

930
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 2: That sounds right.

931
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: What would matter to her the most is that she

932
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: paved the way for women journalists who came after her

933
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: to sit proudly in their newsrooms right or at the

934
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: helm or at the home of their own business, knowing

935
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: that they had just as much to contribute to the

936
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: field as any male colleague, and that's the story of

937
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: trailblazing Denver journalist Nell Campbell.

938
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: Oh, good job, thank you, good job.

939
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: Amazing.

940
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

941
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 1: That's really something to be proud of Denver. That's that's

942
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: very cool.

943
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 2: You know what else is something to be proud of?

944
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 2: What the Stanley Hotel. Yes, I'm gonna tell you about

945
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: the ghosts and the hauntings of the Stanley Hotel.

946
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: There are people going loose with their arms, so yeah,

947
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: they're at a way Stanley Hotel.

948
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 2: I want to see a picture of it. Let's look

949
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: at a picture of hotel. I think I stayed there.

950
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: She has glasses on, sunglasses.

951
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: We should we should look up. There are yelp reviews

952
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: right now and just see it. It's like, it's nice

953
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: and the rugs were No, it's nice, but the ghost

954
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: touched my toe.

955
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: Okay. So tell me if this story makes you believe

956
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 2: in ghosts more, okay or not? So I'm gonna tell you.

957
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: So the year's night, we'll here' where're gonna start? The

958
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: year is nineteen seventy four and we're in Estes Park.

959
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: Why not just one of you Estes Estes Park? Thank you?

960
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: Did you do it?

961
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: Or not Estes Park. Okay, great, thank you. You guys,

962
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: don't sound sure we should have.

963
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: Let's not say it again, Let's stop talking about it.

964
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: It's about an hour and a half northwest of here

965
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: and a popular gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park.

966
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: You go, okay, And so here we are in a

967
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: married couple. They're both authors based in Boulder. They are

968
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: desperate this day to get away from their little kids

969
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 2: for just one freaking night, you guys, I'll know. So

970
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 2: they find a sitter and they check into a hotel.

971
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: It's the fall, and the hotel is about to shut

972
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: down to the winter. And it turns out this couple

973
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: were the only two guests in the whole place. I

974
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 2: know this story, which you do, as some of you

975
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: may have already figured out. Thank you Alie for writing that.

976
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: Like Karen, the authors are Stephen King and his wife

977
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: Tabitha King. Yes, and Tonight's stories about the historic Stanley Hotel,

978
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: one of the most haunted places in America and the

979
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: inspiration for the Overlook Hotel in the novel The Shining Amy.

980
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, you get to do a story that involves

981
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: Stephen King.

982
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: I know.

983
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: That's the best I know congratulations.

984
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: And I have a funny. I have an anecdote about

985
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 2: their marriage that makes me fucking love them. The main

986
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: source is used for the stories a book called The

987
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: History and Haunting at the Stanley Hotel by Rebecca F. Pittman.

988
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: And the rest of our stores is gonna be found

989
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 2: in our show notes. So Stevens have with the King

990
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: check into room two seventeen at the Stanley Hotel in

991
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: the fall of nineteen seventy four. As I said, they're

992
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 2: the only guests in the whole place. And that night

993
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: they eat at the hotel's restaurant, and Stephen King says

994
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 2: later quote, except for our table, all the chairs were

995
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: up on the tables. So the music is echoing down

996
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: the hall. And I mean it was like God had

997
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: put me there to hear that and see those things

998
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 2: men end quote.

999
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: It's all for me.

1000
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 2: If I walked into a restaurant and all the chairs

1001
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 2: were on the table, I'd be like, they don't want

1002
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: us here, like go away.

1003
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: Like just give the closing crew their last fifteen minutes that.

1004
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: I want to make your fucking penny. Oh wait, let's see.

1005
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: Do you know it's weird. I did not know that

1006
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: he wrote that based on his own experience, I've never heard.

1007
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 2: That before, You're going to hear it now, Okay, And

1008
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: as the night wears on, he can't shake that unsettling feeling.

1009
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: He says, quote wandering through these corridors, I thought that

1010
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: it seemed the perfect, maybe the architect archetypal setting for

1011
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 2: a ghost story. That night I dreamed of my three

1012
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,479
Speaker 2: year old son running down the corridors, looking back over

1013
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: his shoulder, eyes wide, screaming that's fucking creepy. I woke

1014
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: up with a tremendous jerk, sweating all over, within an

1015
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 2: inch of falling out of the of bed. I got up,

1016
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 2: lit a cigarette. Yeah yeah, sat in the chair looking

1017
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: out the window at the Rockies, And by the time

1018
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: the cigarette was done, I had the bones of the

1019
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 2: book firmly set in my mind. That guy, that sounds

1020
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: great to write a book. And here's a here's a

1021
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 2: photo of them. Yeah. I would wear her dress so hard.

1022
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, look at that. She's like, can we

1023
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: please leave this galop?

1024
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 2: Stephen, you've got Stephen, Steve got He's not here, but

1025
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: he did text me. I'm sure he text you to

1026
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 2: like good leg tonight.

1027
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: Yes, Stephen, he's here. He's not here in physically, but

1028
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: he's here in spirit.

1029
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a moth, as a tiny he's the moth.

1030
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: The moth as a big mustache.

1031
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 2: The moth as a moth. Here's an anecdote about their relationship.

1032
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: When Stephen King was writing the novel eleven twenty two

1033
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: sixty three, for some fucking reason, a big part of

1034
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: this process was listening to the extended Listen to this

1035
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: and imagine being there at this person the extended dance

1036
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 2: mix of Lou Bega's nineteen ninety nine hit Mambo number.

1037
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: Five, Yeah Again Man.

1038
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 2: Extended dance version, over and over again. He listened to

1039
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 2: the song so much that this fucking badass threatened to

1040
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 2: divorce him if you played it one more.

1041
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: That's a tough one to have on repeat. I don't know.

1042
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the absolute that's very.

1043
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Positive and upbeat, but you just don't want to hear

1044
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it that mum.

1045
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: Now you have to read that book listening and hear

1046
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 2: it the whole time.

1047
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to be thinking about it for

1048
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: the rest of your story.

1049
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: She said, one more time, and I'm going to fucking

1050
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 2: leave you, which holy shit, we love her. Okay. So uh,

1051
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: if Stephen King knew about the Stanley Hotel's very long

1052
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 2: history of strange occurrences, some which happened in the very

1053
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: room he slept in before his stay, he doesn't ever

1054
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 2: mention it. So we don't know. But you've got to imagine,

1055
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: like Stephen King goes into an old hotel and is like,

1056
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: I bet this is haunted.

1057
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I'll go ahead and take room three.

1058
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: Se okay, close in today's Today's got it. So let's

1059
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: get into this hotel and the long and spooky history

1060
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: leading up to Stephen King's fitful, fateful night. The Stanley

1061
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: Hotel opens on July fourth, Your favorite I Love America

1062
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 2: nineteen oh nine. It's this, you know, big grand hotel

1063
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 2: built in the Colonial Revival style with the white exterior.

1064
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 2: It's just it's the majestic is the word that they

1065
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 2: would use.

1066
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: Was it festooned?

1067
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: It's bestom. I'm sure they're bells. I don't know, let's see.

1068
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: And so it had been built by the man named

1069
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 2: Freelan Oscar Stanley. Oh three first names.

1070
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: What's that first name?

1071
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: Freelan? I guess Frelan.

1072
01:02:58,560 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't qualify.

1073
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: Okay. He made his fortune manufacturing steam powered cars, which

1074
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 2: were known as Stanley Steamers. Oh, but it's not. It's

1075
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 2: not the same thing.

1076
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: That can't be.

1077
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: I know there's two different fucking Stanley steamers. One of

1078
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 2: them is a carpet cleaning company and one you know

1079
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like that's weird.

1080
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's like, do do you think that the

1081
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: carpet cleaning company was like, here's a great reference from

1082
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: the past that we'll.

1083
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: Make and they're also like it kind of works with

1084
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 2: us better. So fuck you little I don't.

1085
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: Know steam powered cars to fill it with water and

1086
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: then drive cars. Yeah, and then it would burn your

1087
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: face if you got too close to certain parts of it.

1088
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: Freelan's wife, Flora had overseen the design of the interior.

1089
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: It's just beautiful burgundese and golds would panel. You know,

1090
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: you've seen the shining. You know it looks like yeah,

1091
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: you know, the shining wasn't film, and you know it's

1092
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 2: Alley wrote, picture the interiors of the Titanic, but on land.

1093
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: And right side up, not.

1094
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 2: At the bottom of the fucking Every.

1095
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: Picture I see is upside fucking down. With moss. Sick

1096
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: of it, clean it up. I'm gonna start an online

1097
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: campaign to clean the Titanic before it's raised. I don't

1098
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: want it raised. I just want someone to go wipe

1099
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: that mass off.

1100
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 2: Like brought to you by.

1101
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: Yes, We've got a new sponsor for this tour.

1102
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 2: Finnily enough, Stephen and Tabitha King. The Stanley's had also

1103
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 2: been from Maine, though they'd lived a long time outside

1104
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 2: of Boston. They moved to Colorado No. Nineteen oh three

1105
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 2: after Freeland comes down with tuberculosis. It's the place to be,

1106
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 2: yes or have tuberculous.

1107
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: It's the place to be if you have TV.

1108
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 2: Hey, uh, that's a great jingle, makes a recovery. He's

1109
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 2: so excited about it that he builds his luxury hotel

1110
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 2: for his equally rich and sick friends to come and

1111
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 2: heal and hang out, which sounds great. So there is

1112
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: a tunnel carved into the hotel's foundation, which is carved

1113
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: into bedrock, which at some point was intended for hotel employees,

1114
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: because of course it was.

1115
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: And you guys go down there exactly.

1116
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 2: I went to look at you have a job, and

1117
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: there's nobody working here, and hotel workers now say that

1118
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: when they are in the basement and they pass the tunnel,

1119
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 2: so they sometimes hear now people saying they're whispering their names. Fuck, no, no,

1120
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 2: don't whisper my name. It's so creepy. I like it.

1121
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 2: The hotel has one hundred and forty guest rooms in

1122
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: case you're planning a wedding, and then of course there

1123
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: are lots of other spaces and several other buildings on

1124
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: the grounds. Hotel staff will tell you that every last

1125
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: room in the hotel is haunted, which is like, great, Yeah,

1126
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 2: they put that on Travelocity.

1127
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, but then you could have

1128
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: like a haunted wedding if you wanted. To everybody that's

1129
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: into it.

1130
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: That sounds cool, hotel I don't know. That sounds not

1131
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: sincereal hotel staff uh will tell you about strange occurrences

1132
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 2: that have been reported on every last square of the place, which,

1133
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 2: let's fucking go. People have reported rocking chairs rocking with

1134
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 2: no one in them.

1135
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: Just get rid of the fucking rocky chair right just

1136
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: four on the floor.

1137
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: What if those chairs start rocking though, Like, I'd rather

1138
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: have a rocking chair rock that. People have also reported

1139
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 2: weird lights where there shouldn't be shadows, sudden chills and chalks,

1140
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: sudden headaches, sounds like a gas leak. They should get

1141
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 2: that checked out. Unexplained music, right, Stanley Steamer, what was

1142
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 2: unexplained sense? Which sounds awful?

1143
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: Explain that sense? That's my new game show.

1144
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,439
Speaker 2: And in nineteen seventy, before Stephen King stayed there, one

1145
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 2: maid reported going into a ballroom that should have been

1146
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 2: empty to clean it and saw it full of ghostly

1147
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 2: figures in ball gowns and tuxedos dancing. Yes, sounds like

1148
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 2: the haunted mansion.

1149
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1150
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 2: Room four eighteen is said to be the hotel's most

1151
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 2: haunted room, and guests who have stayed there often report

1152
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 2: rattling windows and that, which is like, yeah, it's wind.

1153
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's happening in my hotel room right now.

1154
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: I literally was like, is someone behind that curtain? It's

1155
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: just like, no, no, just the wind.

1156
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 2: However, it also they also report the sound of unexplained

1157
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: children running through the hallway outside. Oh, children are ghost children,

1158
01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 2: so scary any child And the sound and the sound

1159
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 2: of a bouncing ball you know, you know what a bucket.

1160
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: You mean to sound doing?

1161
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 2: I just hear like an ball, Yeah, the big red one.

1162
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 2: Uh exactly. So I'm not going to go into all

1163
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: the stories, obviously, but let's start with Room two seventeen.

1164
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 2: So here's a photo of it in nineteen eleven.

1165
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: Oh, Britan everywhere.

1166
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 2: Isn't it cool? Let me think, what do you think

1167
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 2: it smells like? Explain that smell cigarettes and mothballs like

1168
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 2: my dress?

1169
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: Now? Is that twin beds or one like queen with

1170
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: two separate headboards?

1171
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 2: I think it's two twins pushed together and a like

1172
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 2: don't touch each other though.

1173
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 1: Way that's the cause of all this haunting.

1174
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: Some prude is like, oh dude, I'll so they haven't

1175
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 2: figured out yet that the key to a happy marriage

1176
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 2: is a king sized bed. Yeah the fox sick.

1177
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: I thought the key to a happy marriage was multiple headboards.

1178
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So so it's the most famous. It had once

1179
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 2: been part of a larger presidential suite, and many famous

1180
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 2: people have stayed there before and after the kings, including

1181
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: Theodore Roosevelt, your best friend, the unsinkable Molly Brown.

1182
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's in every Story's truly an every story.

1183
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 2: That's right. So about sixty years before the King stayed

1184
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 2: there in June of nineteen eleven, a big storm, remember

1185
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 2: those rattling windows, knocked out the electricity at the Stanley

1186
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 2: and the hotel at this point had only been open

1187
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 2: for two years, but everything ran on electricity, which was

1188
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 2: like really high falutin back then.

1189
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: However, what's the look of hyutant the jazz age turla

1190
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:56,599
Speaker 1: light on?

1191
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: See, we'll let us witch. But also, the lamps were

1192
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: designed to work with electricity or gas for when storms came.

1193
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 2: So during a storm, a chambermaid in her fifties name

1194
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Wilson enters Room two seventeen to light the gas

1195
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 2: lamp because the electricity went out. Unfortunately, for some reason,

1196
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:19,600
Speaker 2: the gas had been on for a while, so she

1197
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: goes to fucking light the match. You guys know what

1198
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 2: happens next, huge explosion, taking off a chunk of the

1199
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 2: building's facade and blowing Elizabeth backwards and down through a

1200
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 2: hole that's been blasted in the floor of that fucking room.

1201
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 2: She fucking survives, No, Liz badass, which is like, if

1202
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a ghost story, that's not how it

1203
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 2: usually goes.

1204
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:50,600
Speaker 1: But okay, she's haunted by that experience. He's like, I

1205
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: can't fucking believe that happened to me.

1206
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 2: I know, she breaks both ankles, poor thing, but she survives,

1207
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 2: and in fact, there are a few other injuries, but

1208
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 2: nobody dies in the accident, and Freelan Stanley, the hotel's owner,

1209
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 2: feels so bad for it, and of course there's no workers'

1210
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 2: comp at the time, so he pays for all her

1211
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 2: medical bills, which is like shitty at the time required

1212
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 2: yeah no, and has her recover in one of the

1213
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 2: guest rooms until she's fully healed. And she ends up

1214
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 2: having a long career at the Stanley Hotel and lives

1215
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 2: into her nineties, passing away in nineteen fifty one. So

1216
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 2: now she can finally haunt that room.

1217
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 1: And interesting fun fact, she's the old lady in the

1218
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: bathtub from the movie The Shiner. Oh my god, Oh

1219
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: that was my worst part of that movie.

1220
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was good. Now she good naturedly haunts the

1221
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 2: room because she only broke two ankles, so she's not mad.

1222
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 2: I guess here's what she does. She if guests are

1223
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 2: messy and I've left their clothes lying around and they

1224
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: come back to the room, they find all their clothes

1225
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: flung around in different places. She's like pissed and makes

1226
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: it worse, which sounds like you got shitfaced last night

1227
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 2: and don't remember doing that. I do that?

1228
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: Who threw my bra over? There?

1229
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 2: My undergarments? And then they say sheets move around while

1230
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,600
Speaker 2: they're in bed, as if she's making the bed with

1231
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: them in it. Mom, your mom made your bed.

1232
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: Get up? You know that's how they get you up?

1233
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 2: Oh right, just rip the cover off. Oh my god. Okay.

1234
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 2: People also say that when you try to take a

1235
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: picture of the room with a digital camera and unexplained

1236
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 2: purple bar appears in the viewfinder, which is really creepy,

1237
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 2: and it happens near the love seat in the room.

1238
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: It's not as creepy as having a digital camera, though,

1239
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: let's be honest, get with it.

1240
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 2: It's vintage guests who are like me and Tidy report

1241
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,959
Speaker 2: they returned to their room and found their clothes unpacked

1242
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: from their suitcases and put away.

1243
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1244
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like that sounds like like a turndown service.

1245
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 2: But no, they don't have that at this hotel.

1246
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 1: So now I didn't know that you were supposed to

1247
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: use the drawers and hotel room Oh.

1248
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,719
Speaker 2: My god, I've never opened do they even open?

1249
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 1: I mean they do, And the only reason I know

1250
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: is because Adrian Colsingham uses them. She unpacks and like

1251
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: moves in. I'm like, we're here for forty eight hours.

1252
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is like that is a thing to know,

1253
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 2: Like who are the people who live out of their

1254
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 2: suitcase and who are the people who like move in

1255
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 2: and unpacks.

1256
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: It's two different types of people.

1257
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 2: Wow, and those two people meet and get married and

1258
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 2: hate each other. I don't know where was I unpacking? Okay, okay,

1259
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 2: So there's rumors that this actually happened the you know,

1260
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: cleaning up the room to Steve Stephen and Tabitha King,

1261
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 2: but they've never talked about it anywhere. People say that

1262
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 2: in the bathroom the faucets turned on and off by themselves,

1263
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 2: and you'll remember that in the bathroom. The bathroom in

1264
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 2: the Shining is a big deal and the Cooper but

1265
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 2: the Cooper move, what happened? I don't know. There's just

1266
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 2: a lot no I like it keep going. So they

1267
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: think it's all Elizabeth, like turning on and off the

1268
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 2: fucking shower and the thing, and she's like, ooh, running water.

1269
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know.

1270
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: It sounds to me like Elizabeth has OCD and she

1271
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: says like, can we just clean this up? Please? Can

1272
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: we just clean this room?

1273
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 2: My ankles buck So then the staircase and the landing

1274
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 2: at the landings are of course haunted, because those things

1275
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 2: get haunted.

1276
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: A lot.

1277
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 2: Several people who report the sightings of a ghost of

1278
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 2: a fourteen year old girl named Sarah, who apparently worked

1279
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 2: there as a nanny at some point in history. Author

1280
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: of the book The History and Haunting of the Stanley Hotel,

1281
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: Rebecca Pittman, has written books about different haunted places, and

1282
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 2: she's even had her own hauntings occurred there. She says

1283
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 2: that when she was looking over the stairs railing, she

1284
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 2: felt the distinct sensation of something very cold pressing into

1285
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 2: her forearm, like someone was holding an ice cube there,

1286
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 2: which is actually a trick when you have anxiety is

1287
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,520
Speaker 2: to hold an ice cube. So maybe the ghost therapist.

1288
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, so nice.

1289
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 2: Sorry, Jennifer love Hewitt coming this fall. I love it.

1290
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: I'd watch that so motion holding a fuse of ice

1291
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: on someone's arm.

1292
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 2: And also Rebecca says she was taken on two guided

1293
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 2: ghost tours of the hotel by a woman who goes

1294
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 2: by the name Scary Mary. I bet she's fucking fun. Yeah,

1295
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: and claims she personally witnessed the appearance of two ghost

1296
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 2: children while on this tour. On two occasions, the children

1297
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 2: press their hands into Scary Mary's skirt, leaving little tiny

1298
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 2: child hand imprints. Now get the.

1299
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: Fucking and you can buy that skirt in the gift shop.

1300
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,559
Speaker 2: Mary like, Mary like did checked it and made sure

1301
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 2: there was no I don't know. That sounds fun. And

1302
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 2: other people report seeing a Victorian era clothed woman on

1303
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 2: the stairs and thin feeling lightheaded while walking up and

1304
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 2: down the stairs, which again ghastly sounds like, yeah, oh,

1305
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: here's a picture of a ghost at the Stanley Hotel

1306
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 2: on the stairs.

1307
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I see it.

1308
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 2: That's fucking scary. I mean, I don't love that. And

1309
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 2: that's our rug from tonight. I mean I see what

1310
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,799
Speaker 2: they see, but I don't, and I want to believe

1311
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 2: I do. That's scary.

1312
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: It kind of looks like, you know, they have those

1313
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: like those statues you can get at like Home Goods

1314
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 1: where it's a dog butler. It could be I'm just

1315
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 1: saying it could be a dog butler.

1316
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 2: Just anyone know whether or not they decorate it from

1317
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:35,600
Speaker 2: Home Goods. There it's all we're saying. It's like you

1318
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 2: have to ask the hard questions. Yes, right, and like

1319
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 2: they're the pianos will play and then Rose, Flora's favorite perfume,

1320
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 2: the wife of the guy who built it. They can

1321
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: smell it in the air.

1322
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 1: That's an explained smell.

1323
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 2: Unexplained smells, so God, it's Rose at least or not

1324
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 2: they know the source of that one. Most people believe

1325
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 2: that Flora Stanley is also so haunting the hotel and

1326
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 2: plays on the piano a lot of times. And during

1327
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, prior to the King's stay, the hotel

1328
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 2: had actually been looted several times because it had been abandoned.

1329
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 2: People drove up with moving trucks. I just fucking to

1330
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 2: put stuff into the fucking yeah Jesus Christ.

1331
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: So they just they abandoned it. One owner just was like, Bye,

1332
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 1: I can't handle this place anymore.

1333
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. But the owner at the time had actually gone

1334
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 2: through the effort of hiding the grand piano that was

1335
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: Flora's to protect it, and so they think she plays

1336
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 2: it as an appreciation for It's.

1337
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 1: A great way to say thank you, having a ghost

1338
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: play the piano for you all night.

1339
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 2: Nothing says thank you for haunting the fucking shit out of.

1340
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 1: A Thanks for making me scream again, Flora, don't make

1341
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: the blood come out of the elevator. Please.

1342
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 2: When the novel of the Shining comes out in nineteen

1343
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 2: seventy seven and when the film adaptation comes out in

1344
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty, the Stanley enjoys a renaissance, having been obviously

1345
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 2: made extremely famous. And it turns out Stephen King wasn't

1346
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 2: a huge fan of Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of his book,

1347
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 2: so in nineteen ninety seven he wrote his own script

1348
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: for a mini series that was much more faithful to

1349
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 2: the novel, and that series was shot in the actual

1350
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 2: hotel because it was like, hey, you have a set,

1351
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 2: it's here, let's do it.

1352
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: Did people like that serious?

1353
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 2: I didn't. Did anyone see it? I don't know?

1354
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: Yay was okay?

1355
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 2: And while shooting the crew of the the crew of

1356
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,879
Speaker 2: the movie in the Stanley Hotel, they stained the carpet

1357
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 2: and the lobby, and witnesses claimed that a portrait of

1358
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 2: Flora Stanley flew off the wall and landed right on

1359
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 2: the stain, as if she was admonishing the crew like

1360
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 2: people make up reasons why the things happened. Sure, like

1361
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 2: maybe she was just like I want to lay on this,

1362
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 2: like he doesn't mean like, don't you know what I mean?

1363
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: I'm tired of being on the wall. What's going on

1364
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 1: down here?

1365
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 2: Oh? Guess what else? Is the shot at the Stanley Hotel?

1366
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 3: What?

1367
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 2: Yes?

1368
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 1: Oh? That two hundred dollars Now that was me guessing money.

1369
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll tell you. I shouldn't put you on the

1370
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 2: spot like that was it the world according to Garb No,

1371
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:17,639
Speaker 2: but a good guess it was dumb and dumber.

1372
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: Oh.

1373
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 2: Oh. To this day, fans of The Shining in all

1374
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,839
Speaker 2: its forms, as well as amateur and professional ghost hunters

1375
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,839
Speaker 2: like yourself, flock to the hotel to try to witness

1376
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 2: something paranormal, which let's after party guys at the Stanley

1377
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 2: time and a lot of people do still, I guess

1378
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 2: put on Travelocity that they see hauntings. Yes, And also

1379
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 2: the hotel throws an annual ball where many people dress

1380
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 2: up as characters from The Shining, which talking at one

1381
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 2: of our live shows once they dressed up as the Twins.

1382
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 1: That's right, we have trans of a live show, that's right.

1383
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 2: And that's the story of the haunting of the Stanley Hotel.

1384
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: Amaz that was great.

1385
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 2: Does that mean it's hometown time?

1386
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 1: Hometown time? Okay, our rest time. We're going to tell

1387
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:14,559
Speaker 1: the rules first. Unlike we did last night, we basically

1388
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: set up Katie and Cassandrat.

1389
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 4: It's just me for the third time. I come with

1390
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 4: news that baby Moth was not the only baby in

1391
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 4: the audience tonight. I saw a baby buying merch what

1392
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 4: either that or the adult the baby was without was

1393
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 4: buying a T shirt?

1394
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 2: Oh my god, brother, baby baby your cry podcast?

1395
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: A little baby with a credit card.

1396
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 4: All right, I'm gonna be right over there.

1397
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 2: This is going to be there. Thank you, and they

1398
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 2: have okay, okay, so we're gonna do the rules really quick.

1399
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: We are now asking if anybody here has a hometown.

1400
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:58,440
Speaker 1: We recommend that you have a hometown from Denver or Colorado.

1401
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 1: We do not recommend that you do what Katie did

1402
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 1: and get slayed by the audience. It's really unpleasant for you. Also,

1403
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: try to make it short. Don't bring notes, do your thing.

1404
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: We believe in you. What's the last one?

1405
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 2: Don't be drunk.

1406
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: Oh, you can't be so drunk that you can't tell

1407
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: your own story. But you can be drunk.

1408
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a present for you. Vince and

1409
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 2: I went to a pizza place last night and they

1410
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 2: had one of those cool vending machines for adults the

1411
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 2: clothing and yeah, and this one is called Nostalgia Kids

1412
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 2: Meal toy. Oh so I don't know what's in it.

1413
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 2: And then there's some cookies from the.

1414
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, who who's got a hometown?

1415
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 2: Hometown? Okay, you with the light on, you.

1416
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: Get up here. You're smart, that's a good idea. Yeah,

1417
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: if you're yeh, walk over.

1418
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 2: If your friend is bold enough, yeah, yeah, that way

1419
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 2: events right over there.

1420
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: Oh, we forgot. One of the other rules was don't

1421
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: point at strangers. When we got that happened a bunch

1422
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,720
Speaker 1: of times where people are like her.

1423
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 2: So the chick who lit her. If this is bad,

1424
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 2: this is on you. Not im good at your bike.

1425
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 1: Anything can happen at the show, Isn't that the magic

1426
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: of it? It's too late, she pick someone already. It's

1427
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: so sad. Maybe people just keep going like but maybe

1428
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,640
Speaker 1: if I wait five more times.

1429
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:20,720
Speaker 2: I hate doing that. It feels awful. If I could

1430
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 2: pick all of you, I would. Okay, here she comes.

1431
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 2: This is I'm not gonna listen to screaming you. I

1432
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 2: have a person that thinks up well.

1433
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:36,799
Speaker 1: Oh okay, right right, Hi, wond your name Christina?

1434
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 2: Here, I'm here. She's a hot shirt on come over.

1435
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 1: I love it. Everybody. This is Christina. Be nice to her. Please.

1436
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,600
Speaker 3: Where are you from, Christina, I'm from Colorado Springs?

1437
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,959
Speaker 2: Right right, we're off talk at start. What is your hometown?

1438
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 2: All right?

1439
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 3: So to start off, I'm a homicide prosecutor at the

1440
01:22:58,439 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 3: DA's all.

1441
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: You did that? You did that?

1442
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing.

1443
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 1: Wait right, good, let Christina, Can I ask you a question?

1444
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 3: Yes?

1445
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: Are you a fucking liar? Right now?

1446
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 2: Okay? Great?

1447
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 1: Great, I just wanted to ask Oh my god.

1448
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:20,560
Speaker 2: Okay.

1449
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 3: So the story I want to tell is my first

1450
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 3: homicide trial.

1451
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 1: Fuck, yes, sit down.

1452
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 3: So the story is a woman named Elizabeth Kramer. Lizzie

1453
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 3: Kramer was found murdered. She was in a plastic toe

1454
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 3: box and she had been thrown off the side of

1455
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 3: Gold Camp Road.

1456
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: If anyone's from Colorada Springs, she was laughing at the

1457
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: local reference.

1458
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 3: And yes, because there are a lot of bodies that

1459
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 3: are found off Gold Camp Oh what really?

1460
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:50,679
Speaker 2: Yes?

1461
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 1: And so camp Road. I'm covering that on the next show.

1462
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 3: And so she was actually found by three teenagers who

1463
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 3: were hiking and it was all on a snapchat video.

1464
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 3: So she was found and the suspect was obviously.

1465
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 2: Baby Daddy, but close enough.

1466
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 3: And so then during the investigation we did computer searches

1467
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 3: and he had been really smart and googled how to

1468
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 3: get away with murder?

1469
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean who will apong us?

1470
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,759
Speaker 3: Yes, And so he was taken to trial in twenty

1471
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 3: twenty one and convicted a first degree murder.

1472
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 1: And that's what you did, right, Yes, thank you.

1473
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 3: One of one of my witnesses was one of the

1474
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 3: DNA and roology experts and her name was Cherry Holes.

1475
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 3: We knew her and during a break I was like, oh,

1476
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 3: she was talking about how she was from California. I

1477
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 3: was like, do you know Paul Holes, and she goes,

1478
01:24:55,800 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 3: that's my husband, and I so that that's what I

1479
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 3: did in the middle of court. And it was a

1480
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,759
Speaker 3: little embarrassing because then she she told her husband.

1481
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 2: And then I met Paul later and.

1482
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the one.

1483
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 3: Oh, you're the one that embarrassed yourself in front of

1484
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 3: my wife. And anyway, he is in prison for the

1485
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 3: rest of his life, and the Court of Appeals affirmed

1486
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 3: that conviction.

1487
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 1: So amazing, amazing. That was a perfect hometown in every way.

1488
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 1: Oh what there's cookies? Oh yeah, yeah, Christine, everybody amazing,

1489
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: it's his way. Yeah, we're not Vietnam. Amazing.

1490
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 2: Wow you guys. Yeah, I think night too. You fucking

1491
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 2: did it, Denver.

1492
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 1: It was such an honor to start this tour after

1493
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 1: six years in this city with you guys. Thank you

1494
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: so much, Thank you.

1495
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 2: We really showed up. We fucking love it here. We

1496
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys so much for coming being here.

1497
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 1: Oh are you cuing me? Stay sexy? And thanks Denvern.

1498
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, Elvis. Do you want to cookie?

1499
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production.

1500
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1501
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:37,759
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1502
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle Lascevedo.

1503
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalocci.

1504
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1505
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,879
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

1506
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: Com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1507
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app Apple

1508
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 2: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1509
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: And now you can watch my favorite murder on Netflix.

1510
01:26:57,880 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 2: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1511
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 2: they remind me buttons. That's the best way you can

1512
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 2: support our show. Goodbye,