WEBVTT - The Writing's on the Wall with Cindy Chupack (S2 E11 "Evolution") 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.880 Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:10.160 you a Charlotte. You guys, it's an exciting day, and 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.200 are you a Charlotte because Cindy Schubreck is here. We 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.960 have been waiting so excited for you to come. Cindy 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.639 came to be on the show as a writer originally 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.880 she's gonna tell us all about it in nineteen ninety nine, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.160 many years ago. And you and Jenny then in my mind, 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:34.040 became like this super powerhouse pair who really like took 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.360 the reins of the female voice. You know. People would 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.720 sometimes complain thinking we only had male writers because Darren 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.440 was so outfront and then Michael Patrick, but really we 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.559 always had you guys in my mind, you know, and 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:51.360 you really had such a really incredible input in terms 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.360 of like your own stories, and you know, like for Charlotte, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.640 some of them were just like so important from both 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:59.959 you and Jenny, and like for me when I think 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:05.399 at the show that really, you know, it was the 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.120 heart and the soul and the foundation of like where 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.680 our characters got to go and deepen into. So we're super. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.920 Excited to hear yes. I mean it's funny because Michael 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.280 to me and Michael could write anybody and anything, of course, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.000 and I know you mean that, but yeah, Jenny was 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.480 actually a friend I had made before I came aboard 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.440 this show. I know this, and I was working on 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:28.640 every Boy Loves Raymond. 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:30.080 Well, I didn't remember this theater. 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.200 This is a big thing because it was sort of 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:33.960 like I had an affair with Sex and the City 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.080 because I had been working with a writing partner for 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.240 like seven years, and on the side, I used to 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.959 write these columns like once a year, this thing about 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.680 dating for a glamor, and then I could never use 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.640 as a samples because when you're working with a partner, 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.920 you have to do things you did together, right, And 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.120 I was working she had kids already, so we had 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:54.840 been on all sorts of shows that weren't at all 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.080 about what I was living interesting, and we were finally 0:01:58.080 --> 0:01:59.760 at a point where we were going to separate, and 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.520 wroteenthal who ran every Bay Loves Raymond, let us each 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.360 write an episode. So I had my own episode of 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.240 Everybody Loves Raymond, and then I was going to write 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.320 a spec and Sex and the City had just started. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.440 It was in season one, and I knew Jenny was 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.239 working on it, and I told her I was gonna 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.200 write a spect and she's like, you should come in freelance, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.919 Like you should come in and pitch. So that's what 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.919 Phil let me do. From everybody loves Raymond. I love Phil, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.360 I mean me too. I don't think he I mean 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:28.120 I think he regrets it, maybe still, but which I 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:28.840 will want you. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.880 Phil, I appreciate that. We all really appreciate that you 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:34.400 cheese everybody. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:35.800 I know. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:37.240 He's a good guy. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.480 He's and these are great writers. Like that was a 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.680 great we were finally I was finally on a good 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.799 show that was going to last on Raymond. So my dad, 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.160 who was an accountant, was like, what are you doing? 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.720 But I from the minute I pitched to Michael and 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.200 Darren and Jenny encouraged me, which was so nice of 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.440 her to share that. Like so it was it was 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.960 like I was so excited to pitch because everything I 0:02:57.960 --> 0:02:59.760 had written in a little journal of things I wanted 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.640 to write about our essays or a movie I might 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.320 want to write everything could work on that show. Because 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.560 I was the same age as you guys at that time. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.160 It just felt like everything I talked to my friends 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.240 about and everything I wondered about and in fact, I 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.480 was at Everybody Loves This is such a long answer, so. 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.360 It was good a long answer. 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.680 I was at Everybody Loves Raymond and one of the 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:25.280 guys brought in a VCR. I remember that of Sex 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.560 and the City, and he's like, my wife loves this show. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.720 I don't get it. It was at lunch it played. It 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.000 was the baby Shower episode, and I hadn't seen it, 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.000 and I remember all the boys slowly trickled out. It 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.440 was mostly met on the show, of course, and at Raymond, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.360 and they all trickled out and went to lunch, and 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.280 I was sitting there and I was like crying by 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.120 the end of it. I couldn't believe how much it 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.080 spoke to about what I bought about, and like how 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.680 deep it was to me, and like the idea of 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.800 our you gonn advocate And then remember she had taken 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.200 your baby. Remember there was like such big laughs, but 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:04.040 there were also just to me, these really deep, meaningful conversations. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:08.080 Absolutely I hadn't heard, and so I was like enamored 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.520 of the show. And so I went and pitched and 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.040 Mike clinn. So that's when I did the episode of 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.040 the Chicken dance as a freelancer, so I did not. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.599 Realize you were a free lancer and you did like 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:23.599 a absolutely iconic episode. I mean, Cynthia and I just 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.960 talked about it last week and Cynthia said, because they 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:28.839 were asking me, where are you in the in the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.240 rewatching and I told them and I said, you know, 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.240 Cindy couldn't come on for Chicken Dance, which is coming 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.200 on for the next one. And Cindy said, oh, I 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.520 recommend Chicken Dance to anyone who hasn't seen the show 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.320 or young people who want to see it for the 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.360 first time, because it's not particularly dirty, right, but it's 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.760 the gist of the four women characters. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.240 Oh interesting, Yeah, And that was I thought that. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.400 Was so smart because all I remembered about the Chicken 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.160 Dance was the difficult storyline that I have, which is, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.760 you know, the groomsman's father groping me on the dance floor. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.480 So you like it, and you had an entire relationship 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:04.400 during the wedding with what. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:10.960 Also so bizarre start exactly. That's the which so much 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.200 fun about rewatching. There's so many great things. One is 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.400 that there are things I remember really vividly, and then 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.120 there's things where there's just nothing right, and I'm like, 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.480 I never know what I'm going to do, Like like 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.400 in the one that Jenny had written, the threesomeone where 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.680 I'm having a dream and it looks like I'm about 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:26.359 to have a threesome. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.640 I was I'm gonna have a cent. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.359 I remember that. Oh my god, how great of Charlotte, 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.000 you know what I mean. But no, no, no, it's 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:34.479 just a dream. I didn't have a three cent, but 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.080 I literally don't know. And also in the in the 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.040 Chicken Dance, I don't remember going up to the room 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.320 that I'm preparing for the bread and Room and having 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.560 sex there with that dude very at all, which obviously 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.400 I didn't really have something. But you know, I'm saying, yeah, 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.719 pretty suppersive for Charlotte, and she does a lot of stuff. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.880 But then we come down and he tells me that 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.040 I look like a whore in my beautiful dress, and 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.800 I'm like, oh, but I think, and it's a good 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.599 example because I think what you do so brilliantly, and 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.040 really all of our writers, but when you came you 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:08.880 could get the embarrassment, the kind of going out on 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:13.120 a limb emotionally with the humor, with the depth, all 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.680 of those things, and that's the specialness of the show, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.679 I think, and the writing is the reason for it well. 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.480 And then that you guys could carry off anything that 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:22.280 was so fun. 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.080 It was like, but you guys, you know, you don't 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.680 really have writing like that very often when it's really 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.640 asking you to fire on all cylinders. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.040 Yeah, you know, That's what I feel like I remember 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.320 about the show is just everybody was firing on all cylinders. 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.000 And I feel like I knew it at the time. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.359 I mean, part way in, I was thinking, this is 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.479 going to be the best job I ever have. And 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.960 that's either sad or just like amazing that I'm here 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.719 right now. But I felt like the actors of costume, 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.680 the directors, we were getting and you know, from the 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.000 moment of like nobody's heard of the show and somebody 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.920 brought it in on a tape to like I think 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:57.600 when I joined you guys, that was the first year 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.000 at the Golden Globes and we were like jumping out 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.320 in the kitchen and suddenly people were watching. And then 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.400 we'd walk around New York and you'd hear people talking 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.320 about it. Yeah, So not only did I love what 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:09.760 we were doing and who I was working with, but 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.200 people work. It was in the zeitgeist very yeah. So yeah, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.200 I felt like this is everybody lightning in a bottle. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.880 Amazing, yes, absolutely, and smart that you knew it. I 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.240 mean I don't know that I really knew it until 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.200 I feel like I knew it third season. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.200 But maybe I probably didn't know it right away, right. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:28.360 I just was happy to be there. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.560 Joy of the actual experience is what was you know, 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:35.760 so amazing because you don't always have that, right. You 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:37.800 could be on an amazing show. Everybody loves Raymond's an 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.480 amazing show, but like you said, it wasn't necessarily what 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.640 you were thinking about in life, right, And that was 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.000 true for me also obviously with Sex and City, I'm 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.240 a single, thirty five year old whatever, thirty foot why, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.360 I don't know how old we were something thirty something, Yeah, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.960 and you know the things that you are already thinking 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.640 of and talking about and or curious about or whatever 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.280 is their story. It's crazy, right, like, so unusual and 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.360 obviously hadn't happened then, and I don't know really has 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.280 happened again, because I think we had kind of a 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.600 unique situation in terms of HBO allowing us, you know, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:09.560 to do whatever we want. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.920 Yeah, and I think so much there's very little that's 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:13.960 not said anymore. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:15.480 Well, this is true. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.800 When we were hot, right, there were still things to 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.120 be said that people hadn't said aloud. And now I 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.120 feel like very true, maybe even artly because of us. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:24.360 Not to take credit for that, but I feel like 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.120 my friends who didn't used to talk about some of 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.480 those things that we talked about then would and men 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.920 would too. And so now everybody writes their own every 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.400 you know, everybody says everything absolutely right. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.800 So tell us back. So you wrote the chicken nance 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.240 on spec. So for anyone listening who doesn't really know 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.360 what that means, tell us exactly what inspect means. 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.760 As a freelancer. So I came in and pitched, and 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.680 they listened to a few ideas. They liked that idea. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.400 That was really what was happening in my life right then. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.640 I had bought this house on my own, and somebody 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:55.720 everybody said like, as soon as you buy a place, 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.800 someone will propose. And then I had people hostitting and 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.160 they got engaged in my house and it's supposed to 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:02.560 be to me, and they had me write a poem 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.760 for their wedding, so everything oh the time. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:07.520 For example, you don't. 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:08.200 Know he got them. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:09.360 That's why you were right reading. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.920 He didn't happen leave, but he had given me the 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:13.840 pink toothbrush head, which was like big to me. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:14.280 Wow. 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.000 But then it's like they met, got engaged, were getting 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.280 married and he's just my date and as as far 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.720 as I got is like the pink toothbrushead. And so 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:26.679 I did start crying during the poem the poem, yeah, 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.360 and I did kind of play it off as like 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.440 I was overcome by emotion, but really also. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.680 Oh my god. The other thing that I love about 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.640 having a podcast and getting to discuss things like this 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.080 is that, you know, there was always this kind of 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.160 vague thought that the stories in the show were our actors' stories, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.880 and we would always try to tell someone no, no, no, 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.400 they're not our stories because that'd be weird. They're you know, 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.240 ore writer stories, and they have an agreement that everything 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.960 is going to be either their story or once removed, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.560 people know someone who's actually going through it, but to 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.679 hear you how close it was to your life. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.640 And it wasn't always that a to B like right, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.240 but we definitely yeah, but that one when I pitched it, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.679 they loved that idea. So I got to write that one, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:08.960 and then I got to come to New York and 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:10.600 be at the table read, which to me because I 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.760 had only seen you guys on television and even though 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.200 I worked in TV, I worked in you know, like 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.000 in front of an audience in four camera sitcoms ol sessions. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.600 It comes right, and this was like, you know, you guys, 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.040 I think it was at ABC carpet during lunch when 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.600 you were filming something at Equinox or something already. It 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.199 felt really cool to me, but I was really intimidated. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.719 And I also was intimidated because the script you were 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.840 reading like had come off my printer, like nobody changed 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.280 very much. Like I definitely got input when I was 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.360 breaking the story and all, but it was kind of 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.040 like getting your bluff called because writers always complain, you know, right, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.080 so much got changed, but I was like, why did 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:50.640 no one all help me out? 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.880 This is bad? 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.160 This is just bad for me, Oh my. 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.839 God, But it was so good, That's why no one changed. 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.640 And it was quiet because you guys were like grown 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.840 ups and you'd have to laugh. So the so the 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.120 network knew it was funny, like we did on his sitcom, right, 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.600 so it's really quiet the whole time, the whole difference. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.040 Maybe everyone was very nice afterwards. And then after that 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.040 I asked my agent, like, do you think I could 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.080 go on there? And so he like asked, and I 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.840 got to go there. And then I think maybe they 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.720 regretted letting me do it from everybody else, right, But 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.720 I was like, I'm already in love with this whole process. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:25.960 So then you left. 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.880 Everybody loves women always between seasons, so I just didn't reap, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.160 but I think got it. Everybody thought it would because 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.200 it was finally a successful show and it was really 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:35.880 fun to write, and I wrote about my family, but 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.440 it wasn't like writing Sex and the City. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.000 Of course, nothing is nothing was obviously for sure, And 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.439 we're just so thankful that you came to us. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:44.960 My god, I am. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.120 I did have a very weird conversation though, which kind 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.640 of now has some interesting backstory to it. One time 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.160 with Ray Ramono on television where he told me that 0:11:55.200 --> 0:12:00.400 women weren't funny. Oh yeah, and I say interest, but 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.199 we were on television, so I couldn't. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:03.920 Were you what was that? 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.480 Some kind of a was it Bill Maher used to 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.640 have a show that had more than one personal Yeah, yeah, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.880 maybe that show. So it was like a guy based show. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.120 And I think that was the only woman sitting there, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:16.920 do you know what I mean? And I was kind 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.560 of like, and I think we knew you'd come from 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.600 there on some level at least I was like, wait, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.439 is this guy? 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.920 So I feel like, okay, maybe he was overstating hopefully, 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:28.400 and I just did a thing that was like a 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.720 reunion of the Raymond writers. But I do remember like 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.040 I said something funny, and I remember them kind of 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.240 still looking surprised that I said all these years. 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.360 And you feel like that's a real thing in commedy. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.360 Like happily, not surprised, like how could you, but just 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:44.400 surprise I said something. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.400 I remember thinking that, like it's a holdover from like 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.800 you know, it's a sexist kind of a holdover that 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.760 we still need to get totally rid of, right, And 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.840 that was kind of the joy of our show is 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.120 that there were four of us and all of you 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.800 guys started writing and writing your own series or women writers, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:02.720 and yes there was Darren and Michael Patrick of course, 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.000 but then like we got more and more, and we're gonna, 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.640 you know, obviously as we go on, we'll get everyone on, 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.280 hopefully because that would be really really fun. But you know, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.040 just to be able to succeed without it being a 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.360 traditional sitcom, right, So I think women obviously had already 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.280 done great over there in regular sitcom land, right to 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.200 have it be kind of like a little almost like 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.680 an indie film, almost like a sitcom, oh, you know, 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.079 like we it was very. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.320 Different at the time, very different like whenever I pitched 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.120 a sort of a woman centric show, it was always like, okay, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.600 but they they're dating, but what's their job or whatever. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.640 It was never I could just see about friendship and 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.200 dating really in life, and in the right that was right. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.240 So it was really fun. And also, yeah, it did 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.679 look very filmic. I remember people were really addicted kind 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.280 of to a laugh track. So there was a lot 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.600 of fear about like what single camera was, and there 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.600 was a lot of hybrid will be kind of single 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.600 camera but some kind of on right. But Second City 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.720 did such a good job of making it film and 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.800 I think using music, and it didn't feel quiet and 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:01.000 it was like. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.600 Not at all, yeah, not at all. But also to 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.160 me even when I look back, because it is I 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.320 am so able to be more objective now than you know, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.440 because I only would ever watch it right when before 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.880 it came out on HBO. They would give us the 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.720 vhs and we take them home and watch them, and 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.360 sometimes there's still be like placeholders or whatever. It wouldn't 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.600 be totally finished right, and then I would probably not 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.000 ever see it again, you know. So I'm rewatching and 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.120 so amazed by so many things and so many things. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.360 I'm like, it is so good and I don't know 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.600 that I was able to feel that at the time, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.680 like to really think in I knew it was special 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.800 and different, and I knew that our vibe when we 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:43.680 were doing it had that like faculty energy of something special, 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.360 you know. But then to see it now from all 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.320 these many years later, and see how the writing holds up, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.840 how on point you guys are about so many things, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.080 like the I think this is so this is our 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.760 episode that we're discussing today is Evolution, which you wrote 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.040 and Pam Thomas directs, who was great director, and I 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.840 don't know why we never had her back maybe you know, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.480 I don't know, so great And it's got the incredible 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.280 Dan Futterman in it, which we're going to talk to 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.880 next week, which will be really fun. But the thing 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.440 that I'm wondering about, because I just watched this is 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.960 when we have the incredible episode where Brandon talks about 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:21.840 freezing her eggs. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.120 Yes, I watched it last night too, right, the guy 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:25.800 with the hair. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.560 Plus right, it's so good. But also that shot where 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.400 they're in the freezer and she and Gary says, right now, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:33.640 there were no eggs in her freezer. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.280 Thomas did that great, like from shot and also from 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.840 behind the medicine cabinet medicine so good. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.360 I mean, she was so visual, Pam Thomas was so visual. 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.560 But like, that's how new egg freezing was that. First 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.280 of all, this jerk on this date with her is 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.360 gonna you know, criticize the idea of you know, science, right, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.440 you know, creating babies or whatever. Oh my god. And 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.880 then obviously he's just had hair blood, so she's just 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.280 like wait, you know, which is so well written and 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.640 so great. But also the fact that then she goes 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.920 into her freezer and there's vodka in there, and carry goes, 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:16.080 you know, for now there's no It's so funny funny. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.640 And it's funny because I remember at the time eyeing 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:19.680 everyone was like, wait, what. 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.560 Do you mean? What how does I remember? Like and 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:22.280 should I do that? 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:23.280 That? 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:23.600 Smart? 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:24.160 Do you go? 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:25.920 The fertility savings account? 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.880 All of it was new. It's crazy to think about that. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.560 Yeah, well, I mean because we did write a lot 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.240 from experience. But I remember when we did all the 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.840 infertility stuff for Charlotte, I hadn't had children yet and 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.040 like hadn't gone through that and then did afterward, and 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:43.600 I remember a lot of that I think came from 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.800 Michael Patrick King and his friends who had gone through 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.840 it right. So again, like the men could write the 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.920 hell out of it anything. But I felt like later 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.000 like wow, that we did kind of nail it. I 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:57.640 was kind of that was when of those things looking back, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.440 I went, oh it did. I mean, I alway felt like, oh, 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.240 I could have added more because now I understand more. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.480 But I thought the same thing with my acting. Yeah, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:05.880 I was like I couldn't. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:07.440 I couldn't do more. 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.560 I could have done more a big time. I don't 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.440 know if that would have been needed necessarily, but like, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.160 once you start to go through those actual things, there 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.359 is no high or low that is too high or 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:18.720 too low. 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.680 It's in that field. Oh yes, right, yeah, and. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.240 The adoption too, you know, like it happens pretty pretty simply. Yeah, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.199 and it's not that simple, as we both know. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:29.840 No, no, but. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.080 I mean I love that we did it, and maybe 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.000 we I don't even know if the show would have 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.480 benefited from more detail, you know. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.680 No, it's more about the emotion, that's the thing. Yeah, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.360 that's the thing. I sometimes I just think back, well, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:45.919 I just looked at it kind of a nod that 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.359 like you did capture it, and it's somehow captured, you know, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:50.920 close to what it was. But it's true, you feel 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.320