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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are

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Speaker 1: you a Charlotte. You guys, it's an exciting day, and

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Speaker 1: are you a Charlotte because Cindy Schubreck is here. We

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Speaker 1: have been waiting so excited for you to come. Cindy

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Speaker 1: came to be on the show as a writer originally

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Speaker 1: she's gonna tell us all about it in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: many years ago. And you and Jenny then in my mind,

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Speaker 1: became like this super powerhouse pair who really like took

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Speaker 1: the reins of the female voice. You know. People would

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Speaker 1: sometimes complain thinking we only had male writers because Darren

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Speaker 1: was so outfront and then Michael Patrick, but really we

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Speaker 1: always had you guys in my mind, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you really had such a really incredible input in terms

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Speaker 1: of like your own stories, and you know, like for Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: some of them were just like so important from both

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Speaker 1: you and Jenny, and like for me when I think

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Speaker 1: at the show that really, you know, it was the

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Speaker 1: heart and the soul and the foundation of like where

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Speaker 1: our characters got to go and deepen into. So we're super.

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Speaker 2: Excited to hear yes. I mean it's funny because Michael

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Speaker 2: to me and Michael could write anybody and anything, of course,

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Speaker 2: and I know you mean that, but yeah, Jenny was

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Speaker 2: actually a friend I had made before I came aboard

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Speaker 2: this show. I know this, and I was working on

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Speaker 2: every Boy Loves Raymond.

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Speaker 1: Well, I didn't remember this theater.

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Speaker 2: This is a big thing because it was sort of

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Speaker 2: like I had an affair with Sex and the City

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Speaker 2: because I had been working with a writing partner for

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Speaker 2: like seven years, and on the side, I used to

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Speaker 2: write these columns like once a year, this thing about

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Speaker 2: dating for a glamor, and then I could never use

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Speaker 2: as a samples because when you're working with a partner,

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Speaker 2: you have to do things you did together, right, And

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Speaker 2: I was working she had kids already, so we had

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Speaker 2: been on all sorts of shows that weren't at all

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Speaker 2: about what I was living interesting, and we were finally

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Speaker 2: at a point where we were going to separate, and

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Speaker 2: wroteenthal who ran every Bay Loves Raymond, let us each

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Speaker 2: write an episode. So I had my own episode of

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Speaker 2: Everybody Loves Raymond, and then I was going to write

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Speaker 2: a spec and Sex and the City had just started.

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Speaker 2: It was in season one, and I knew Jenny was

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Speaker 2: working on it, and I told her I was gonna

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Speaker 2: write a spect and she's like, you should come in freelance,

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Speaker 2: Like you should come in and pitch. So that's what

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Speaker 2: Phil let me do. From everybody loves Raymond. I love Phil,

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Speaker 2: I mean me too. I don't think he I mean

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Speaker 2: I think he regrets it, maybe still, but which I

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Speaker 2: will want you.

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Speaker 1: Phil, I appreciate that. We all really appreciate that you

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Speaker 1: cheese everybody.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: He's a good guy.

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Speaker 2: He's and these are great writers. Like that was a

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Speaker 2: great we were finally I was finally on a good

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Speaker 2: show that was going to last on Raymond. So my dad,

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Speaker 2: who was an accountant, was like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: But I from the minute I pitched to Michael and

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Speaker 2: Darren and Jenny encouraged me, which was so nice of

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Speaker 2: her to share that. Like so it was it was

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Speaker 2: like I was so excited to pitch because everything I

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Speaker 2: had written in a little journal of things I wanted

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Speaker 2: to write about our essays or a movie I might

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Speaker 2: want to write everything could work on that show. Because

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Speaker 2: I was the same age as you guys at that time.

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Speaker 2: It just felt like everything I talked to my friends

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Speaker 2: about and everything I wondered about and in fact, I

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Speaker 2: was at Everybody Loves This is such a long answer, so.

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Speaker 1: It was good a long answer.

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Speaker 2: I was at Everybody Loves Raymond and one of the

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Speaker 2: guys brought in a VCR. I remember that of Sex

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Speaker 2: and the City, and he's like, my wife loves this show.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it. It was at lunch it played. It

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Speaker 2: was the baby Shower episode, and I hadn't seen it,

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Speaker 2: and I remember all the boys slowly trickled out. It

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Speaker 2: was mostly met on the show, of course, and at Raymond,

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Speaker 2: and they all trickled out and went to lunch, and

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Speaker 2: I was sitting there and I was like crying by

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Speaker 2: the end of it. I couldn't believe how much it

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Speaker 2: spoke to about what I bought about, and like how

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Speaker 2: deep it was to me, and like the idea of

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Speaker 2: our you gonn advocate And then remember she had taken

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Speaker 2: your baby. Remember there was like such big laughs, but

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Speaker 2: there were also just to me, these really deep, meaningful conversations.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely I hadn't heard, and so I was like enamored

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Speaker 2: of the show. And so I went and pitched and

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Speaker 2: Mike clinn. So that's when I did the episode of

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Speaker 2: the Chicken dance as a freelancer, so I did not.

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Speaker 1: Realize you were a free lancer and you did like

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Speaker 1: a absolutely iconic episode. I mean, Cynthia and I just

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Speaker 1: talked about it last week and Cynthia said, because they

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Speaker 1: were asking me, where are you in the in the

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Speaker 1: rewatching and I told them and I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: Cindy couldn't come on for Chicken Dance, which is coming

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Speaker 1: on for the next one. And Cindy said, oh, I

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Speaker 1: recommend Chicken Dance to anyone who hasn't seen the show

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Speaker 1: or young people who want to see it for the

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Speaker 1: first time, because it's not particularly dirty, right, but it's

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Speaker 1: the gist of the four women characters.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, And that was I thought that.

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Speaker 1: Was so smart because all I remembered about the Chicken

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Speaker 1: Dance was the difficult storyline that I have, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the groomsman's father groping me on the dance floor.

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Speaker 2: So you like it, and you had an entire relationship

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Speaker 2: during the wedding with what.

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Speaker 1: Also so bizarre start exactly. That's the which so much

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Speaker 1: fun about rewatching. There's so many great things. One is

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Speaker 1: that there are things I remember really vividly, and then

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Speaker 1: there's things where there's just nothing right, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I never know what I'm going to do, Like like

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Speaker 1: in the one that Jenny had written, the threesomeone where

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Speaker 1: I'm having a dream and it looks like I'm about

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Speaker 1: to have a threesome.

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Speaker 2: I was I'm gonna have a cent.

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Speaker 1: I remember that. Oh my god, how great of Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But no, no, no, it's

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Speaker 1: just a dream. I didn't have a three cent, but

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Speaker 1: I literally don't know. And also in the in the

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Speaker 1: Chicken Dance, I don't remember going up to the room

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Speaker 1: that I'm preparing for the bread and Room and having

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Speaker 1: sex there with that dude very at all, which obviously

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have something. But you know, I'm saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty suppersive for Charlotte, and she does a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But then we come down and he tells me that

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Speaker 1: I look like a whore in my beautiful dress, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, but I think, and it's a good

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Speaker 1: example because I think what you do so brilliantly, and

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Speaker 1: really all of our writers, but when you came you

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Speaker 1: could get the embarrassment, the kind of going out on

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Speaker 1: a limb emotionally with the humor, with the depth, all

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Speaker 1: of those things, and that's the specialness of the show,

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Speaker 1: I think, and the writing is the reason for it well.

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Speaker 2: And then that you guys could carry off anything that

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Speaker 2: was so fun.

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Speaker 1: It was like, but you guys, you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: really have writing like that very often when it's really

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Speaker 1: asking you to fire on all cylinders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, That's what I feel like I remember

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Speaker 2: about the show is just everybody was firing on all cylinders.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like I knew it at the time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, part way in, I was thinking, this is

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Speaker 2: going to be the best job I ever have. And

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Speaker 2: that's either sad or just like amazing that I'm here

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Speaker 2: right now. But I felt like the actors of costume,

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Speaker 2: the directors, we were getting and you know, from the

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Speaker 2: moment of like nobody's heard of the show and somebody

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Speaker 2: brought it in on a tape to like I think

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Speaker 2: when I joined you guys, that was the first year

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Speaker 2: at the Golden Globes and we were like jumping out

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen and suddenly people were watching. And then

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Speaker 2: we'd walk around New York and you'd hear people talking

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Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, So not only did I love what

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Speaker 2: we were doing and who I was working with, but

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Speaker 2: people work. It was in the zeitgeist very yeah. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I felt like this is everybody lightning in a bottle.

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Speaker 1: Amazing, yes, absolutely, and smart that you knew it. I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't know that I really knew it until

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Speaker 1: I feel like I knew it third season.

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Speaker 2: But maybe I probably didn't know it right away, right.

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Speaker 2: I just was happy to be there.

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Speaker 1: Joy of the actual experience is what was you know,

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Speaker 1: so amazing because you don't always have that, right. You

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Speaker 1: could be on an amazing show. Everybody loves Raymond's an

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Speaker 1: amazing show, but like you said, it wasn't necessarily what

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Speaker 1: you were thinking about in life, right, And that was

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Speaker 1: true for me also obviously with Sex and City, I'm

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Speaker 1: a single, thirty five year old whatever, thirty foot why,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how old we were something thirty something, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know the things that you are already thinking

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Speaker 1: of and talking about and or curious about or whatever

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Speaker 1: is their story. It's crazy, right, like, so unusual and

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Speaker 1: obviously hadn't happened then, and I don't know really has

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Speaker 1: happened again, because I think we had kind of a

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Speaker 1: unique situation in terms of HBO allowing us, you know,

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Speaker 1: to do whatever we want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think so much there's very little that's

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Speaker 2: not said anymore.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is true.

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Speaker 2: When we were hot, right, there were still things to

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Speaker 2: be said that people hadn't said aloud. And now I

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Speaker 2: feel like very true, maybe even artly because of us.

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Speaker 2: Not to take credit for that, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: my friends who didn't used to talk about some of

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Speaker 2: those things that we talked about then would and men

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Speaker 2: would too. And so now everybody writes their own every

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Speaker 2: you know, everybody says everything absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: So tell us back. So you wrote the chicken nance

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Speaker 1: on spec. So for anyone listening who doesn't really know

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Speaker 1: what that means, tell us exactly what inspect means.

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Speaker 2: As a freelancer. So I came in and pitched, and

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Speaker 2: they listened to a few ideas. They liked that idea.

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Speaker 2: That was really what was happening in my life right then.

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Speaker 2: I had bought this house on my own, and somebody

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Speaker 2: everybody said like, as soon as you buy a place,

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Speaker 2: someone will propose. And then I had people hostitting and

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Speaker 2: they got engaged in my house and it's supposed to

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Speaker 2: be to me, and they had me write a poem

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Speaker 2: for their wedding, so everything oh the time.

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Speaker 1: For example, you don't.

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Speaker 3: Know he got them.

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Speaker 1: That's why you were right reading.

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Speaker 2: He didn't happen leave, but he had given me the

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Speaker 2: pink toothbrush head, which was like big to me.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: But then it's like they met, got engaged, were getting

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Speaker 2: married and he's just my date and as as far

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Speaker 2: as I got is like the pink toothbrushead. And so

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Speaker 2: I did start crying during the poem the poem, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I did kind of play it off as like

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Speaker 2: I was overcome by emotion, but really also.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. The other thing that I love about

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Speaker 1: having a podcast and getting to discuss things like this

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, there was always this kind of

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Speaker 1: vague thought that the stories in the show were our actors' stories,

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Speaker 1: and we would always try to tell someone no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: they're not our stories because that'd be weird. They're you know,

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Speaker 1: ore writer stories, and they have an agreement that everything

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Speaker 1: is going to be either their story or once removed,

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Speaker 1: people know someone who's actually going through it, but to

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Speaker 1: hear you how close it was to your life.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't always that a to B like right,

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Speaker 2: but we definitely yeah, but that one when I pitched it,

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Speaker 2: they loved that idea. So I got to write that one,

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Speaker 2: and then I got to come to New York and

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Speaker 2: be at the table read, which to me because I

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Speaker 2: had only seen you guys on television and even though

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Speaker 2: I worked in TV, I worked in you know, like

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Speaker 2: in front of an audience in four camera sitcoms ol sessions.

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Speaker 2: It comes right, and this was like, you know, you guys,

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Speaker 2: I think it was at ABC carpet during lunch when

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Speaker 2: you were filming something at Equinox or something already. It

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Speaker 2: felt really cool to me, but I was really intimidated.

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Speaker 2: And I also was intimidated because the script you were

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Speaker 2: reading like had come off my printer, like nobody changed

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Speaker 2: very much. Like I definitely got input when I was

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Speaker 2: breaking the story and all, but it was kind of

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Speaker 2: like getting your bluff called because writers always complain, you know, right,

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Speaker 2: so much got changed, but I was like, why did

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Speaker 2: no one all help me out?

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Speaker 1: This is bad?

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Speaker 2: This is just bad for me, Oh my.

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Speaker 1: God, But it was so good, That's why no one changed.

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Speaker 2: And it was quiet because you guys were like grown

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Speaker 2: ups and you'd have to laugh. So the so the

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Speaker 2: network knew it was funny, like we did on his sitcom, right,

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Speaker 2: so it's really quiet the whole time, the whole difference.

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Speaker 2: Maybe everyone was very nice afterwards. And then after that

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Speaker 2: I asked my agent, like, do you think I could

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Speaker 2: go on there? And so he like asked, and I

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Speaker 2: got to go there. And then I think maybe they

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Speaker 2: regretted letting me do it from everybody else, right, But

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm already in love with this whole process.

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Speaker 1: So then you left.

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Speaker 2: Everybody loves women always between seasons, so I just didn't reap,

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Speaker 2: but I think got it. Everybody thought it would because

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Speaker 2: it was finally a successful show and it was really

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Speaker 2: fun to write, and I wrote about my family, but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like writing Sex and the City.

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Speaker 1: Of course, nothing is nothing was obviously for sure, And

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Speaker 1: we're just so thankful that you came to us.

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Speaker 2: My god, I am.

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Speaker 1: I did have a very weird conversation though, which kind

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Speaker 1: of now has some interesting backstory to it. One time

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Speaker 1: with Ray Ramono on television where he told me that

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Speaker 1: women weren't funny. Oh yeah, and I say interest, but

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Speaker 1: we were on television, so I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: Were you what was that?

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Speaker 1: Some kind of a was it Bill Maher used to

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Speaker 1: have a show that had more than one personal Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe that show. So it was like a guy based show.

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Speaker 1: And I think that was the only woman sitting there,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? And I was kind

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Speaker 1: of like, and I think we knew you'd come from

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Speaker 1: there on some level at least I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: is this guy?

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Speaker 2: So I feel like, okay, maybe he was overstating hopefully,

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Speaker 2: and I just did a thing that was like a

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Speaker 2: reunion of the Raymond writers. But I do remember like

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Speaker 2: I said something funny, and I remember them kind of

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Speaker 2: still looking surprised that I said all these years.

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Speaker 1: And you feel like that's a real thing in commedy.

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Speaker 2: Like happily, not surprised, like how could you, but just

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Speaker 2: surprise I said something.

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking that, like it's a holdover from like

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a sexist kind of a holdover that

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Speaker 1: we still need to get totally rid of, right, And

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Speaker 1: that was kind of the joy of our show is

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Speaker 1: that there were four of us and all of you

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Speaker 1: guys started writing and writing your own series or women writers,

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Speaker 1: and yes there was Darren and Michael Patrick of course,

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Speaker 1: but then like we got more and more, and we're gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously as we go on, we'll get everyone on,

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Speaker 1: hopefully because that would be really really fun. But you know,

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Speaker 1: just to be able to succeed without it being a

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Speaker 1: traditional sitcom, right, So I think women obviously had already

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Speaker 1: done great over there in regular sitcom land, right to

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Speaker 1: have it be kind of like a little almost like

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Speaker 1: an indie film, almost like a sitcom, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like we it was very.

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Speaker 2: Different at the time, very different like whenever I pitched

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Speaker 2: a sort of a woman centric show, it was always like, okay,

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Speaker 2: but they they're dating, but what's their job or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It was never I could just see about friendship and

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Speaker 2: dating really in life, and in the right that was right.

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Speaker 2: So it was really fun. And also, yeah, it did

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Speaker 2: look very filmic. I remember people were really addicted kind

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Speaker 2: of to a laugh track. So there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of fear about like what single camera was, and there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of hybrid will be kind of single

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Speaker 2: camera but some kind of on right. But Second City

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Speaker 2: did such a good job of making it film and

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Speaker 2: I think using music, and it didn't feel quiet and

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Speaker 2: it was like.

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Speaker 1: Not at all, yeah, not at all. But also to

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Speaker 1: me even when I look back, because it is I

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Speaker 1: am so able to be more objective now than you know,

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Speaker 1: because I only would ever watch it right when before

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Speaker 1: it came out on HBO. They would give us the

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Speaker 1: vhs and we take them home and watch them, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes there's still be like placeholders or whatever. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be totally finished right, and then I would probably not

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Speaker 1: ever see it again, you know. So I'm rewatching and

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Speaker 1: so amazed by so many things and so many things.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, it is so good and I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I was able to feel that at the time,

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Speaker 1: like to really think in I knew it was special

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Speaker 1: and different, and I knew that our vibe when we

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Speaker 1: were doing it had that like faculty energy of something special,

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Speaker 1: you know. But then to see it now from all

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Speaker 1: these many years later, and see how the writing holds up,

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Speaker 1: how on point you guys are about so many things,

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Speaker 1: like the I think this is so this is our

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Speaker 1: episode that we're discussing today is Evolution, which you wrote

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Speaker 1: and Pam Thomas directs, who was great director, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know why we never had her back maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, so great And it's got the incredible

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Speaker 1: Dan Futterman in it, which we're going to talk to

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Speaker 1: next week, which will be really fun. But the thing

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Speaker 1: that I'm wondering about, because I just watched this is

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Speaker 1: when we have the incredible episode where Brandon talks about

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Speaker 1: freezing her eggs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I watched it last night too, right, the guy

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Speaker 2: with the hair.

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Speaker 1: Plus right, it's so good. But also that shot where

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Speaker 1: they're in the freezer and she and Gary says, right now,

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Speaker 1: there were no eggs in her freezer.

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Speaker 2: Thomas did that great, like from shot and also from

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Speaker 2: behind the medicine cabinet medicine so good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was so visual, Pam Thomas was so visual.

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Speaker 1: But like, that's how new egg freezing was that. First

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Speaker 1: of all, this jerk on this date with her is

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, criticize the idea of you know, science, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, creating babies or whatever. Oh my god. And

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Speaker 1: then obviously he's just had hair blood, so she's just

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Speaker 1: like wait, you know, which is so well written and

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Speaker 1: so great. But also the fact that then she goes

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Speaker 1: into her freezer and there's vodka in there, and carry goes,

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Speaker 1: you know, for now there's no It's so funny funny.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because I remember at the time eyeing

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Speaker 1: everyone was like, wait, what.

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Speaker 2: Do you mean? What how does I remember? Like and

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Speaker 2: should I do that?

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Speaker 3: That?

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Speaker 2: Smart?

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Speaker 1: Do you go?

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Speaker 2: The fertility savings account?

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Speaker 1: All of it was new. It's crazy to think about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean because we did write a lot

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Speaker 2: from experience. But I remember when we did all the

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Speaker 2: infertility stuff for Charlotte, I hadn't had children yet and

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Speaker 2: like hadn't gone through that and then did afterward, and

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Speaker 2: I remember a lot of that I think came from

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Speaker 2: Michael Patrick King and his friends who had gone through

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Speaker 2: it right. So again, like the men could write the

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Speaker 2: hell out of it anything. But I felt like later

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Speaker 2: like wow, that we did kind of nail it. I

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Speaker 2: was kind of that was when of those things looking back,

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Speaker 2: I went, oh it did. I mean, I alway felt like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I could have added more because now I understand more.

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Speaker 1: But I thought the same thing with my acting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was like I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't do more.

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Speaker 1: I could have done more a big time. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that would have been needed necessarily, but like,

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Speaker 1: once you start to go through those actual things, there

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Speaker 1: is no high or low that is too high or

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Speaker 1: too low.

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Speaker 2: It's in that field. Oh yes, right, yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: The adoption too, you know, like it happens pretty pretty simply. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's not that simple, as we both know.

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Speaker 2: No, no, but.

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Speaker 1: I mean I love that we did it, and maybe

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Speaker 1: we I don't even know if the show would have

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Speaker 1: benefited from more detail, you know.

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Speaker 2: No, it's more about the emotion, that's the thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing. I sometimes I just think back, well,

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Speaker 2: I just looked at it kind of a nod that

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Speaker 2: like you did capture it, and it's somehow captured, you know,

400
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Speaker 2: close to what it was. But it's true, you feel

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Speaker 2: like I under like this is an odd thing to

402
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Speaker 2: stay on it. But I feel like I knew women

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Speaker 2: who had miscarriages when I was younger, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: really know what that meant exactly to them and what

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Speaker 2: kind of a loss that was.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't think people talked about it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't, which is sad, and so it really didn't

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Speaker 2: like there were some things you kind of do have

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Speaker 2: to go through to understand the depth of what it

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Speaker 2: feels like to the person. And even if you have

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Speaker 2: really good friends who went through it, it's just not

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Speaker 2: quite the same, So that's true.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, I think with the Charlotte miscarriage,

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Speaker 1: I think the writing was beautiful and I had enough.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say lost, because that's not exactly

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Speaker 1: the right word, but I had enough understanding from my

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Speaker 1: friends and from just my own personal journey, not that

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Speaker 1: I had been through that then it definitely had it,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I had enough to draw on that,

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Speaker 1: I think. And again, this is one of those things

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Speaker 1: where like Hindsight is twenty twenty in some ways, but

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Speaker 1: then also like our show has the ability to have

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Speaker 1: the incredibly serious storylines but still be able to get out,

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Speaker 1: you know, to come to a place. So like had

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Speaker 1: we known more, had been able to get up off

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Speaker 1: the sofa, get herself dressed up and go to that party.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, well, I should say I think for you,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to speak for you because you're right here,

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Speaker 2: But for actors, maybe you're used to playing things you

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Speaker 2: haven't you don't you know how to draw on other things,

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Speaker 2: And I guess as a writer I did the same.

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Speaker 2: But just sometimes sometimes when you're writing and you know,

433
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Speaker 2: like something's going to be a real gut punch, you

434
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Speaker 2: can feel it in your gut. Yeah, you don't have

435
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 2: to have gone through it, but like I can feel like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this almost makes me cry to write it. And now

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00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 2: this is like something I feel like I kind of

438
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 2: would have had more of that feeling maybe, but.

439
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: That's how it turned out. And I think people talk

440
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,880
Speaker 1: to me a lot about it now still, so you

441
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 1: know over time that that's something that people connect with

442
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: and isn't that the whole game? Right? So so yes,

443
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 1: we can.

444
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 2: No, I'm so and I'm so happy that it's I

445
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 2: do feel like we're probably I'm probably more critical, but

446
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: I'm so happy it holds up, like I feel like,

447
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 2: and that's because really the themes of it, the love,

448
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: the friendship, the loss, the longing, the like, loneliness, everything

449
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 2: was the universal thing that whether you're texting or you're

450
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: waiting for a phone call, it was kind of universal.

451
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's why I'm doing the podcast really because

452
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: all these new people discovered it. But being on Netflix,

453
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: right and then I really people had asked, you know,

454
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 1: since podcasts became a thing, and I just didn't feel

455
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: ready to look at it because we were all together

456
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: doing and just like that, I felt like I had

457
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: kind of a good advantage point of like, well, we're

458
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: here now and look at how we began, and also

459
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: I haven't watched them, and also I really wanted everyone's

460
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,120
Speaker 1: stories to be told. This is the joy of podcasting, right, Yeah,

461
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 1: so all these people who've been our fans forever or

462
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: new people can hear about what it was like to

463
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: create it, and like you're saying, like, you know, the

464
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: feeling of being in New York in the beginning when

465
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: we didn't really know what it was going to be,

466
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: but it had that like sizzily feeling, you know, and

467
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: like that process of like walking around and having people

468
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: start to talk to us about it and all of that,

469
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: Like being there is incredible to think about. Yeah, it's amazing.

470
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: Was it was really exciting? Yeah, And it was just

471
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: I think even if it hadn't caught on, it was

472
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 2: really nice to be writing and doing something that felt

473
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,679
Speaker 2: so relevant to what we were going through, what our

474
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:17,400
Speaker 2: friends were going through.

475
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and I'm just going to have a little

476
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: just moment to talk about it and just like that,

477
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 1: you know, whether and just like that obviously never going

478
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: to be Sex and City. I don't ever think we

479
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: ever thought it was going to be Sex and City,

480
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: but again, we wanted to tell the stories of what

481
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: we're going through in our thirties.

482
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: Right.

483
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: I think that's an important point, right, is that like

484
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: here we were, it was COVID. You know, COVID had

485
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: just ended. We were just able to go back out,

486
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: and the thing that we had always been doing was

487
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: talking about what was happening for us in our lives

488
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: at this time, not necessarily my Christian story, but.

489
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: Like all the people we know and just like life

490
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 2: goes on, Yeah, and why wouldn't that be something?

491
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: But I think maybe we were a little bit overly

492
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: ambitious thinking that our fans. I'm gonna laugh, I shouldn't

493
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,959
Speaker 1: really laugh, but it's kind of funny when I think

494
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,239
Speaker 1: about it now, like how naive in a way at

495
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: least I was that our fans he has like you're

496
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: talking about death and cancer. Like we were like, yeah,

497
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: let's do it. And then everybody's like what are they doing?

498
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And now it's over, which

499
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: is sad. But I'm are you going to go there?

500
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: But you know I'm in denial. I'm in denial because

501
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: we've ended so many times. So let's talk a little.

502
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: I'm wanting hear more. So you said, your agent, I

503
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: want to go right on that show? Could I go

504
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: right on that show? He says, yes, he gets you

505
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: deal over there. You leave Raymond, You moved to New York. Yeah,

506
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: got it, Like we did half and half to me too, right,

507
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: We were all back and forth. So you kept your

508
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: house here, you went to New York and then where

509
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: you were, you and Jenny, you would have your own scripts. Yeah,

510
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: wid you at some point were you consulting producers and

511
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: then executive producers? What was that journey? Like, I can't remember.

512
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: I think I was already like a co executive producer

513
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: at Raymond, and I think I just came on as

514
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: a consulting producer because literally it was a big pay

515
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: cup from what I was doing. I was finally making money.

516
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: But I was like, I don't care what the title is,

517
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: and there were certain anyway, It's just that it was

518
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 2: like all work for whatever at the time, and then

519
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: as it was great, but I think it was just

520
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: like I don't care about the title. I just want

521
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: to be there. So I started as a consulting producer,

522
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: got it, and then yeah, eventually became a co executive

523
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 2: and Jenny both.

524
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and did you were you together with Jenny in

525
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: terms of like we're a partnership co executive producer. That's

526
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: how I felt you guys were, huh, But I don't

527
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: think you technically were. No, we were just like Julian

528
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: and a Lisa are a technical partnership.

529
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: I think we just like were in sync a lot

530
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: of times. We were like the two girls and when

531
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: it was like Michael and Darren.

532
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, she mean you to have your own scripts.

533
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we did. We collaborated on one, like the

534
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: last We collaborated on splat the very end, and that

535
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: was so fun to write with Jenny, so oh my god.

536
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: But I collaborated with Michael on a different one too,

537
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: so yeah.

538
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: But so it was like kind of a small group

539
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: of writers at that point, and you would collaborate and

540
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: or just be in the writer's room together, yeah, brainstorming,

541
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: and then on the set with us all the time,

542
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: which is the other thing people really don't realize. No,

543
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: And was that unusual for you at the time, Well.

544
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my first single camera so I hadn't

545
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: even been on those kind of sets right out in

546
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: the world, right, But also even since then, like I've

547
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: done a lot and I haven't ever been on a

548
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: show where you're there that much and where even you're

549
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: doing the writing there like either in a restaurant nearby

550
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: or upstairs by the camera.

551
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: Set with your lapshop open on your lap which would

552
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: be Michael Patrick King.

553
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you like to be there, and like not all

554
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: show runners want to be there for everything, and and

555
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: so we would just go along and while we were

556
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: still writing. But it was great because we got to

557
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: really like be the.

558
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: Process and I know, so it was great for us

559
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: because you know, if we had a question, we could

560
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: just go over to you and we didn't have to

561
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: worry if the director, we feel was like totally knowledgeable

562
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: about the characters or the storyline or whatever. We could

563
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: just check in with you guys, which was amazing.

564
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 2: Yes right, no, yes, no you could. I don't know

565
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: if all the directors loved that.

566
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: You know what.

567
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: On my very first on Chicken Dance, Yes, oh, I

568
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: think you asked me something which I answered because I

569
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: didn't know the protocol of all that. And then I

570
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 2: remember the director at the time who I saw recently

571
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: at a DJA, I think, and she's still angry with

572
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: me about this, and I was like, I didn't know.

573
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: But anyway, she said something at the time like, oh,

574
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: is that what we're gonna do? A good cup, bad cup?

575
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: And I was like, what, I don't even know what

576
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: I'm doing.

577
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: I just answer a question, but my god.

578
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: But anyway, that was unusual. Most of them totally appreciated

579
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 2: and I never came back. Please, if you're listening, Victoria,

580
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: I am sorry. I didn't know how it worked.

581
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: I was new.

582
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: I was just excited to be there.

583
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sure I was just excited to ask

584
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: you a question and you should answer.

585
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: It's like how we're going to play it and come out.

586
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: But you know what I think that is about, and

587
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to think about it. That is

588
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: about the old school TV ways. Yeah, because there was

589
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: a hierarchy.

590
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: Well and eniment. It's really still the director who's supposed

591
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: to talk to the actor.

592
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: It was very different. They don't even want the writer

593
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: to come. You should not go to a film set

594
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: if you're a writer, unless you're like an Oscar winning writer.

595
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: Right, And this is a better experience than that. I remember.

596
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: I know you had Allen Coulter on who I loved too.

597
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: I think I had written one. It still took me

598
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: a while to understand, like the rhythm of a film set,

599
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: because like you you know, we go, we see the

600
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: as soon as you finished filming one scene, you go

601
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: see the rehearsal of the next scene. Nobody's in costume

602
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: yet they haven't done their hair and makeup for that scene.

603
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: You see the rehearsal and then the director comes up,

604
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: they light. There's so much that happens.

605
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: Well.

606
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: The rehearsal to me was like the first time hearing

607
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 2: the actors read it, since like the table read maybe

608
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: or changes. Yeah, so I would be I remember with

609
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: Alan one time, I like had thoughts about it and

610
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: he goes Cindy, and this was nice of him to

611
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: tell me, and I remember it forever. He said, this

612
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: would be like me leaning over your shoulder while you're

613
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: writing a first draft, telling you, like what I think,

614
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: Like I'm going to work it out. The actors are

615
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: going to have thoughts and then when if you still

616
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: feel like right issues And he was right. And it

617
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: took me a while to just learn the rhythm of

618
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: like when it was okay to interject or good to interject,

619
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: because a lot of times, you guys would arrive at

620
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: whatever was bothering me from the very beginning work. Well,

621
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: that's good. It was only like once in a while

622
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: would never be something in the staging of the rehearsal

623
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: that you knew you needed to say something because it

624
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: was going to be too late. That we don't wit

625
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: for sure for sure, but it took we want to learn.

626
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: Sense because in your mind you have written the scene.

627
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: Therefore you have visualized the scene, right, And that's the

628
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: weird thing about writing, right, is like in our industry, writing,

629
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: of course is tremendously important, but then sometimes you guys

630
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: are kind of pushed to the side, like please be

631
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: quiet now, which is not really because it's a collaborative

632
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: art space that we don't we can't do our job

633
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: by ourselves, and you can't do your job and you

634
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: can write it, but then it's just going to be

635
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: on the page, you know what I mean. We could

636
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: act by ourselves like on the street or whatever, but

637
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, we need each other. And then the director's

638
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: in the middle of it all, and in depending on

639
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: the director, they're either more open or less open or

640
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: you know whatnot. I mean, everyone's different and I also

641
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting the vibe that's created. And one

642
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: of the things I love about the old show and

643
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: the new show, you know, is that it was always

644
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: a very creative, you know place where people like I

645
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: always felt, before we ever had a title or anything, right,

646
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: that I was very included in the process. In Charlotte's

647
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: trajectory and her arc. You know, Mike would always sit

648
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: us down at the beginning before we went to work

649
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: and say this is the plan, and then he would

650
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: call us if it was changing, or he'd come grab

651
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: us on the set and say can I talk to you?

652
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: And you know, then we would come to you, like

653
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: if we read something. I remember one time I had

654
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: one of those really long Charlotte monologues, you know, where

655
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: I just talked for like half a page or whatever,

656
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: and I'm upset about something, you know what I mean.

657
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: I think it was in the in the Tray era,

658
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: and I came to you in the hallway of Silver

659
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: Cup and I was like, Cindy, you know, I just

660
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, it's just hard to because you

661
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: remember how we had to be word perfect.

662
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's comedy.

663
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: It's a comedy. It's exact right, it doesn't happen, don't know.

664
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean that was the that was the president said,

665
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: and I think it's a good one because it wasn't.

666
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: We didn't have an audience there to tell a sip.

667
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: We were hitting the jokes right, So we had to

668
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: trust the writing, you know, we had to trust the

669
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: rhythms of the writing and the rhythms of the writing.

670
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: And let me tell you when we did. And just

671
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: like that, and we brought our new actors and I

672
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: mean they're still talking about how.

673
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: Hard it is.

674
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: Oh really, because it's very specific, you know, and each

675
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: character is also very specific from each other. And like

676
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: my rhythm up talking, my syntax is not the same

677
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: as charlotte syntax, right, And then sometimes depending on who

678
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: wrote what episode, you'd be like, oh, I just can't

679
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: say this. It can't get my mouth to form the words,

680
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I came to it

681
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, can we change it? And you

682
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: were like no, Oh my god, that's a rood of me.

683
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: Well, since Sex and See, I feel like I've worked

684
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: on and when I directed a movie, I really wanted

685
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: it to be a bit more playful and have more

686
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: room for that, like I think, but I have noticed

687
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: because I've now worked on some dramas and I don't

688
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: know why, because I love comedy so much so I

689
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: feel like I should be just But I've worked on

690
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: dramas and I feel like it's somehow less precise. And

691
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: it can be because it's very much the feeling and

692
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: the plot and like you want the but comedy sometimes

693
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: it's just like it's not funny one way, and it

694
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: is funny.

695
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: I think it's the rhythm of the words. You know,

696
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: the rhythm of the words is super duper important. And

697
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: I think the rhythm of the actors is also important,

698
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: because you can't really teach comic timing. But I think

699
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: that they have to work together right, and so sometimes

700
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: you guys would change stuff, and I remember thinking that

701
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: at the time, I don't know what was true, but

702
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: I remember thinking I probably waited too long, because you know,

703
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: there'd be like right after the table read, different people

704
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: would request changes. And do you know what I mean,

705
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: I waited till the hallway.

706
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: So you're the same as me on the set, like

707
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: when exactly do I enter right early but not too late.

708
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: I also think for so long I never asked for

709
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: anything because I was just so happy storyline right, Yeah,

710
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: And so it was getting to word like I had

711
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: a lot more because of Trey and I had these long,

712
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: like emotional things rather than because in the beginning. At

713
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: a certain point I have my like didactic like I'm

714
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: going to get married and I've got this book and

715
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: this book says done, which I haven't really gotten to yet,

716
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: which I thought was first season. But first season, I'm

717
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: just kind of there, like, you know, not quite one

718
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: hundred percent knowing what to do or whatever.

719
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: I can't tell at all.

720
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. When I look, that's what I see.

721
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: I see me underneath a layer of like pretend calm,

722
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, which obviously all of us

723
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: feel at some point.

724
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: But I feel like I knew Charlotte right from the

725
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: baby floor, from the baby shower. For my first episode

726
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: I watched, which You're.

727
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: Very Charlotte, which I remember, like Jenny also Upper Eastside,

728
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, like once you guys came, I was like, oh,

729
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: thank god, Oh thank god, I'm going to get some

730
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: good storylines. They get me, they get me, I mean me,

731
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: but also Charlotte.

732
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I'm saying a romantic I mean, I think

733
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: of it just like the romantic side of it.

734
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you got married with a white horse.

735
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, yeah.

736
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: You know, all of us have our you know, our visions,

737
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: and we try to make them come true, right, and

738
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: that's kind of glorious.

739
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: No, it is do your beauty of Charlotte. I think

740
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: it was like very optimistic.

741
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: She was also like, you know, she was gonna work hard,

742
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: She's going to do what it took. She was not

743
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: going to give up. You know. You gotta love that.

744
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, shall we talk about this particularly so

745
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: this is evolution, which is also like such a great

746
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: I don't really I'm just rediscovering all of it when

747
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 3: I watch it because I don't really remember it exactly, you.

748
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: Know, and I thought I did, and then when I rewatched,

749
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I forgot that storyline. I forgot

750
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: the fertility, like the me too, freezing your eggs was

751
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: in there, me too. I forgot the Samantha story, which

752
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: is like I love that moment. There's a moment where

753
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: Charlotte is like, like, Samantha getting her heartbroken was more

754
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: confusing to Charlotte than a kiss from a gay man.

755
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: And you're like, you're just bewilderment and everything in this

756
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: episode I love.

757
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. So I totally forgot John Chay,

758
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, was in our show. How did I not

759
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: remember this? I was like, oh my god, what am

760
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: I watching?

761
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: Watching?

762
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: And he said that we had so many I mean,

763
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: and right now is when like it's really kicking in

764
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: because people know what the show is now. The third

765
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: season is going to be you know, next level, right,

766
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: but like now is when we're really getting all the

767
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: good people and writing all the good storylines. And it

768
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: was so sad for Samantha. I felt really bad. I

769
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: didn't remember this at all, this whole plan that she's

770
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: basically this man John o'sha is he's almost like a

771
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: different version of mister Big in a way right where

772
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: she dated him when he was you know, a big

773
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: deal and then he dropped her for a model that

774
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: he married, and then they broke up and it was

775
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: an ugly divorce and he had fallen in stature, which

776
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: kind of made me laugh because now, if you're having

777
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: an ugly divorce, I don't really think it affects the men,

778
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Doesn't know might affect

779
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: the women, might not. I don't know, it's like everyone's

780
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: having an ugly divorce basically, but whatever, that was interesting.

781
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: Like you fell from the cover of Fortune to like page.

782
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: Six exactly, exactly exactly. But so then she has a

783
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: whole plan, and I love the way that you created

784
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: this storyline for her because it makes total sense and

785
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: you don't really see it coming that. It's not going

786
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: to be like a kind of regular Samantha storyline, right yea,

787
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: there's a whole plan that she's going to date this

788
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: man again, even though Carry's like what are you doing?

789
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: You really hurt you and we're all like huh what,

790
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: oh what?

791
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Car said like he is the man who broke

792
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: her heart and you're just like what And you know

793
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: that was a possible story then got hurt.

794
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: Which is pretty cool, and she seems you see that

795
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: in her performance where she's like, well, I have a

796
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: plan and I'm going to leave him before he does

797
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: it to me. But then it doesn't go to plan.

798
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 2: I think her plan was like right before they even

799
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: have sex, she was going to be like right by

800
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: then she's like, well maybe after sex, and then maybe.

801
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: She thought she wouldn't have feelings because if you think

802
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: about the very first pilot episode, she's like, I'm going

803
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: to have a sex like a man without feelings, right, yea,

804
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: so it makes total perfect sense. But she wasn't born

805
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: like that, right, She went through things to get there.

806
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: So it's kind of an interesting like backstory that we

807
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: kind of don't ever really get. Also, I literally mentioned

808
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: my parents. I think at one point I'm like, what

809
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: you guys, they're in Connecticut. I think we knew that part.

810
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: But and then I think also previously in a Jenny episode,

811
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: I say, oh, we don't talk about feelings and we

812
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: just are very good at tennis.

813
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: And which episode I can't even remember which episode, but

814
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: the one where you're in the spawn You're like, I

815
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: didn't grow up in a naked house?

816
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: Was up?

817
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: I forgot? I think we wouldn't know that.

818
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: I mean little tidbits, little tidbits where if we collected

819
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: them all, they make a pretty good picture. But I

820
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: love the whole that we don't spend time on the

821
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: backstory generally speaking. But okay, so we have we have this.

822
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: Let's just talk about our guest starts for a second

823
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: because they're so great. So we've got John Shay as

824
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: Dominic who's the smith's drill, and we've got Dan Futterman

825
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: just to dream.

826
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: Dreamy, I mean in every way because in the episode

827
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: we're not sure Charlotte like if he's gay or straight,

828
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: goes on a date with them, like says, I didn't

829
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: watch my hair, I wore last like it wasn't a date.

830
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: He kisses her. This amazing and it's good. So when

831
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: we cast that, when we were casting, when Dan Fetterman,

832
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,959
Speaker 2: I can't even believe he came in to read because

833
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: he's like a big actor. I would we even know,

834
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: But anyway he did, and both Jenny and I were enamored,

835
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: and Darren and Michael were enamored. Every it's perfect. Everybody

836
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: loves him.

837
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: Yes, now, let me ask you this about this storyline,

838
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: because this is one of the storylines. When I thought

839
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: back on it, because it's Butterman, all we remember is Bututterman, right,

840
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: But then I did remember that there was some kind

841
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: of a metrosexual conversation, which was a word at the time.

842
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: It's not a word anymore.

843
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I don't know if that's when ages that. Well,

844
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: the discussion of gay street manastery gay men like this

845
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: is one of those things where I look back and

846
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: I think, well, at the time, it seemed hilarious and

847
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: forward thinking, and now it feels like very binary, and

848
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: like I'm embarrassed that that was how we talked about it.

849
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: But you kind of I don't know if you can

850
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: judge like you then n we're right now that we

851
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 2: would write it that way.

852
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: No, of course we wouldn't write it that way. But

853
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: I also thought, because I had Benito Skinner on last week,

854
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: huh have you watched his show over Compensating? Oh my god,

855
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: it's so good to be Okay, not only is it

856
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: so good, you quote Charlotte often, which is adorable on

857
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: his podcast, not in the show. And he told me

858
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: when he came on the pod that when he so

859
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: he created videos for Instagram during the pandemic and then

860
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: put them on YouTube. This is how he became successful.

861
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: It's incredible, right, He's incredibly inspiring and awesome. So when

862
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: he got his show picked up at Amazon Prime, it's

863
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: called overcompensating, and it's about kind of pretending that he

864
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: wasn't gay and overcompensating so that no one would notice

865
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: that he was, in fact gay. And the journey to

866
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: in college coming out right. It's a very funny and

867
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: adorable show and very reminiscent of early day sex in

868
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: the city. He told me when he came on the

869
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: pod that he once he got the show picked up,

870
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: he was like, oh my god, what do I do now?

871
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: And he watched the show throughout the whole show three

872
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: times to study the structure.

873
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: Wo isn't that cool? I mean, I think that's the

874
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: thing is that there's still very individual stories. There's still

875
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 2: men of a lot of trouble coming out. There's still

876
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: women who are confused whether if someone's gay or not,

877
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 2: people who.

878
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: Are like it's all very fluid, Like he wasn't inside confused,

879
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: but he was presenting you so like he has a

880
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: best friend that he tries to date. Yeah, but they

881
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: don't have sex because he's actually gay, and he kind

882
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: of knows he's gay, but he doesn't want anyone else

883
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: to know. So then he rags to the frat boys

884
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: that he I can't repeat it. It involves sex wherever

885
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: he rags, and then she finds out, and then they

886
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: have a fight and then they make up and they're

887
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: best friends. Right, And so he what he said to

888
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: me is like the healing of having you know, gay friends,

889
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: gay male whatever with women friends, like there's a healing

890
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: in it, you know, and they can rely on each other.

891
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: And I thought that was just so great.

892
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: I think for me, the lesson is, like you can

893
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: tell any individual story that's true and that's true to you.

894
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: Like if that's so, I think that's a defense you

895
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: can still use, and it can be as specific and

896
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: it can I think what was fun about section in

897
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: the day at the time is that we could make

898
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: these pronouncements that felt real and like in the Zeitgeisten

899
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: did start conversations and we're fun, but they were kind

900
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: of generalizing about men or women or gay you know.

901
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: So at the time it seem hilarious that we were

902
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 2: capturing something that seemed true. But I think maybe because

903
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: it was trying to be generalizing that made it like

904
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: when you look back, maybe we were.

905
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: I also think at the time, I believe that we

906
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: were all going around talking about metrosexual and they were

907
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: all writing magazines about metrosexual, which I think if I

908
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm right, but it was basically like

909
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: a straight man theoretically who grooms themselves like a gay man?

910
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: Right, and culturally, we thought, yeah, we have culture things

911
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: that we thought were gay, right, which not necessarily but

912
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: like great style, great culture or references. Right, Yeah, but

913
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: we don't.

914
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: Ever use the word metrosexual in the episode, which I

915
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: thought we did, but we don't. We do we talk

916
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: about gay straight men and gay straight gay men or whatever,

917
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: which also like I was like, I don't even know

918
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: what the heck we're saying, but whatever, it's super interesting, right,

919
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: But basically I do ask him have you ever been

920
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: with a man? And then he asked me if I've

921
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: ever been with a woman? And I don't answer, which

922
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: I find weird also, right, and then this is where

923
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: I thought was also interesting because I couldn't remember the details.

924
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: I just knew it was like a questionable storyline, right,

925
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: But it's also Dan Futterman, So yeah, we love it.

926
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: I love it still, Like I stand by it. I

927
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: just think like some of those things don't diet an

928
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: age as well. But I still love the storyline and

929
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: like you trying to make sense of like.

930
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: What is happening? Yeah, yeah, And then at the end

931
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: when the mouse is there and he jumps on the

932
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: chair and kind of squeals, and then the voiceover says

933
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: something to the effect of Charlotte wasn't well enough developed

934
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: in her masculine side to be with someone who was

935
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: so well developed in their feminine side. Yeah, something like that,

936
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: which is a very deep statement. And that's fine to say,

937
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: isn't it.

938
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: No, I think it. I mean, I think it. I

939
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: mean I love that whole. As someone who's been confused

940
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: myself and married someone who realized he was gay after

941
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 2: being married, I feel uniquely qualified to say that it's

942
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: confusing sometimes.

943
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: Yes, it is confusing, and.

944
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: You do kind of want some clarity sometimes just because

945
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: you need to. I don't know.

946
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: So I don't do anything wrong with one in clarity.

947
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I love that in that scene when

948
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: when you ask him in bed and he says like,

949
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: I'm a pastry chef who lives in Chelsea. If I

950
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: were gay, I would be gay totally, like, which was

951
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: really smart.

952
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: At that time.

953
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: It's true, like he wouldn't he could.

954
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you just be You'd be doing great? He would be, Yeah,

955
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: I mean very busy. Your schedule would be booked and

956
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: you're adorable.

957
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: But I also love in this from this scene where

958
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: you bring Carrie and Stanford to the place for the

959
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: pastries just to decide yes.

960
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: And it must have been like the casting of of Futterman,

961
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: because literally everyone at the table likes him. Yeah right,

962
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: like every like Willie says, Stanford says will I'm attracted

963
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: to him, so he must be straight, which is so funny.

964
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: And all the good ones are straight, even the gay ones.

965
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 2: It was really, really, God Willy, I know.

966
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 3: It was.

967
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: That's a fun one to rewatch though, of him. So fun.

968
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: All right, you guys, it is too much fun to

969
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: have Cindy Schuback here. So we are going to come

970
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: back for part two later in the week. Please join

971
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: us on Are You a Charlotte