Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, Done Done.
Speaker 1: Welcome to That's Messed Up n SVU podcast. I am
Speaker 1: Cara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: Every week we talk about an episode of SVU, the
Speaker 2: true crime it's based on. And then we have an
Speaker 2: incredible guest from every episode.
Speaker 1: And now we chat.
Speaker 2: We get to hang out like we didn't just FaceTime
Speaker 2: right before we on.
Speaker 1: The Zoom on the Zoom City. We went from FaceTime
Speaker 1: to Zoom immediately. Yeah, and then not.
Speaker 2: To brag, we are going to a pool today, but
Speaker 2: we deserve it. It's like one hundred degrees. I have
Speaker 2: no air conditioning. I'm sweating in my little box. It's
Speaker 2: so messy. I thank god. Our friends are bringing me
Speaker 2: a dresser today.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So many things are happening for you today,
Speaker 1: address or a pool exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and bleeding from my pussy again yet again. Surprise
Speaker 2: never ends.
Speaker 1: Has it been a month? Has it it flies? Time flies?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 2: I was watching TV. I was in a hotel watching
Speaker 2: my SVU, living my best life in freezing air conditioning.
Speaker 2: And what do I see on my television? Iced tea
Speaker 2: in a Little Caesar's commercial.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that.
Speaker 2: It was awesome. There were some other celebrities in there.
Speaker 2: I didn't really pay attention. I was like on cloud
Speaker 2: nine seeing Ice. You know he he needs to keep working,
Speaker 2: like take a day off, bro, you need But maybe
Speaker 2: he loves Little Caesar's.
Speaker 1: But it was for the stuffed cheese crust pizza. And
Speaker 1: I would dabble, would I would be you know what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tall. You's being crazy right now. I've never
Speaker 1: had Little Caesar's pizza. Oh did you got Oh you
Speaker 1: were rich? Maybe? No?
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: I grew up in an area where I always saw
Speaker 1: the commercial. I grew up my whole life pizza pizza,
Speaker 1: Like I remember always hearing the commercial. I never saw
Speaker 1: one physically. It was like same thing with Sonic. I
Speaker 1: would see commercials, but they were like in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: not in Connecticut.
Speaker 2: I relate to the Sonic. I never was near a Sonic.
Speaker 2: I've had it twice now though. But Little Caesar's and
Speaker 2: where I grew up right near the Blockbuster and five dollars,
Speaker 2: so it would be like you grab a five dollars
Speaker 2: and then well, we're we have problems. But my friend
Speaker 2: and I we would each get our own five dollar
Speaker 2: pizza and then go to the beach and then eat
Speaker 2: our own pizza next to each other. And we weren't
Speaker 2: even smoking weed at the time. We were not drunk.
Speaker 2: We were just two girls who loved just.
Speaker 1: A coming of age story about pizza and friendship. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, our friend CJ loves pizza. It's like
Speaker 2: one of his personality trades. He's literally pizza.
Speaker 1: I went to see the NBA Finals with CJ a
Speaker 1: couple nights ago, and a Pizza Hut commercial came on,
Speaker 1: and like three of his friends turn term and they go,
Speaker 1: CJ Pizza Hut. Like just the commercial for Pizza Hut
Speaker 1: came on.
Speaker 2: No, don't you get to like I get message I
Speaker 2: mean we get messaged SVU stuff every day, I would say,
Speaker 2: but on my own time, I do get like Simpsons
Speaker 2: My oh my god, Miley Cyrus has a new shirt.
Speaker 2: It says Miley Cyrus made me realize I'm gay.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's my Like I could sue her.
Speaker 1: I've said that. Yeah, you know. Yes, I was gonna
Speaker 1: there's a trigger line of merchant Miley Cyrus Inc. That's wild.
Speaker 1: Wait but what were we talking? Oh, when you know
Speaker 1: about stuff pizza.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for his birthday one year, me and this
Speaker 2: girl we got him a pizza cake and with strawberry
Speaker 2: shortcake and the pepperonis were fruit roll ups and the
Speaker 2: cheese was like shredded white chocolate and like it was
Speaker 2: a delicious, beautiful cake. But then everyone just wanted pizza.
Speaker 2: And everyone's like, oh, like when something looks like something
Speaker 2: else in a cake, you have to make sure it's
Speaker 2: also a delicious treat, right that drunk people would want
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Yes, Like when they were doing that thing of like
Speaker 1: cutting cakes and like they really it's like really a
Speaker 1: hand or whatever. They would be like a soda can
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I want to coke now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like a soda cancake.
Speaker 2: I just can't believe. Yeah, the Bigfoot Pizza, they had
Speaker 2: great marketing. I mean, let's try it. I wasn't ever
Speaker 2: pizza hut. I never had a pizza hut until like adulthood.
Speaker 1: I had pizza hut only growing Like my life really
Speaker 1: pizza Hut for me was personal pants at the airport.
Speaker 1: That was like the only time I really did it.
Speaker 1: But I'm excited to try Little Caesar's Iced Tea approved
Speaker 1: stuff crushed with you. I'd be delighted to try it.
Speaker 1: There's one. There's one literally basically between our houses. There's
Speaker 1: a Little Caesars. So I don't know why we're not.
Speaker 2: The neighbor gets it constantly. I see her with a
Speaker 2: box all the time as they.
Speaker 1: Wave hot and ready, as Marcella Arguello says, hot and
Speaker 1: readies for the people. I was gonna say, speaking of
Speaker 1: Iced Tea, our girl, because you know that our instagram
Speaker 1: is also a baby Nicole, a baby Chanel Nicole stand
Speaker 1: account and ic Ty's daughter. Chanelle is having a moment
Speaker 1: where people are like suddenly waking up and realizing that
Speaker 1: she has Iced Tea's exact face, which we've obviously known forever.
Speaker 1: But everyone's like, no DNA test needed. It's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: have you guys, she's like six years old. Everyone's behind
Speaker 1: on this. She's always looked exactly like Iced Tea.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's kind of like the maloney ass, like yeah, no,
Speaker 2: we've been knowing, Yeah, but also, yeah, they're in love.
Speaker 2: That is the dad and that is the mom. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, like he's not having babies
Speaker 2: out of what she's not like this right?
Speaker 1: They're together? No, And like they're really cute. I heard
Speaker 1: Chanelle and Coco were cute. They do like I'm not
Speaker 1: even four, like matchy matchy outfits with mom and daughter.
Speaker 1: But when they do it, for some reason, it's like
Speaker 1: cute to me.
Speaker 2: Like I actually saw a mom and daughter wearing matching
Speaker 2: mustard yellow dresses on the street this week, and I
Speaker 2: did give him a compliment.
Speaker 1: What'd you say? I said, you guys look as hell.
Speaker 1: I didn't say hell.
Speaker 2: She was like a child, but I said, you guys
Speaker 2: look really cute.
Speaker 1: You can say hell in front of my kid. I said,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? There was a Prius in front of
Speaker 1: me swerving this morning, and I go, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And Rosie goes, what the fuck? And I was like,
Speaker 1: don't say that. Like I don't even try to discipline
Speaker 1: language because.
Speaker 2: It's like what I talk about with TVs anything when nanny,
Speaker 2: like if you make it a big deal, they're gonna
Speaker 2: want to say it. Yeah, Like because I remember with
Speaker 2: my friend who's an amazing parent. We were listening to
Speaker 2: a song and like, like one of the other parents
Speaker 2: at the party said something, and she goes, I don't care,
Speaker 2: go fuck yourself. If we make a deal of it,
Speaker 2: then they'll get excited. But if you don't care, why
Speaker 2: would they care.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be so lax about language. I can't
Speaker 1: even I guess I'm gonna have to have a conversation
Speaker 1: at some point of like, you can say that at home,
Speaker 1: but you can't say it at school. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well no, but also, what's fun? What's more cute than
Speaker 2: a kid saying fuck? Oh?
Speaker 1: It's so cute. She says it with such gusto, She's like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Like it's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't believe in uh sense censorship.
Speaker 1: There's also you told me that there is a dick
Speaker 1: Wolf movie coming out.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but I did I want ASO wanted to
Speaker 2: say that. I don't know if we watched this. I
Speaker 2: don't know where anything is anymore, but I see in
Speaker 2: an interview said that like he is really scared for
Speaker 2: Coco because she's going to really miss Chanel when she
Speaker 2: goes to school. Okay, like they spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time together. He's like they're really best friends, and she's
Speaker 2: really not excited for her to start school.
Speaker 1: But you know what, that's going to be a time
Speaker 1: for Coco to like take off. Coco's going to like
Speaker 1: come up with some product she's going to start selling,
Speaker 1: or she's going to like have her own business. Like
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about Coco. I mean that will be
Speaker 1: like emotional, but I bet you it'll be like a
Speaker 1: time where she kind of steps into her own power
Speaker 1: and she put out a workout DVD. I would pay
Speaker 1: attention to launch a swimwear line for like lady girls
Speaker 1: with big tits. I love that.
Speaker 2: Hello, Yeah, I saw wildly a preview. I don't know
Speaker 2: how it came to me, probably the algorithm. But there's
Speaker 2: a Dick Wolf Ridley Scott Court movie coming out with
Speaker 2: the guy from Star Wars. I know there's a lot
Speaker 2: of Star Wars and a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: But John Boyega, Yeah, the cute guy. That's like he
Speaker 1: was like the young new star too, like one of
Speaker 1: the last couple of Star Wars. I'm like Star Wars illiterate,
Speaker 1: So you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Well, we figured it out together. But it looked great
Speaker 2: and I think we'll probably see it opening night, and
Speaker 2: if if we get rich by the time it comes out,
Speaker 2: we'll rent a whole theater. I love when I see
Speaker 2: that on Twitter. I know it's usually for poor people, Like, Hey,
Speaker 2: if you're in this community, I bought this theater out.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna be like, if you're an SVU freak,
Speaker 2: even if you can afford it, you can get.
Speaker 1: On down here. Yeah, so stay tuned for that. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get going. I'm really excited about today's episode.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all right, let's do it. So we're going
Speaker 2: all the way back and we're starting with season two,
Speaker 2: episode twenty peak. I would say one of our most requested,
Speaker 2: not as much as Murderous Identical Twins, but very close
Speaker 2: up there.
Speaker 1: Yes, No, people have definitely asked for this baby a lot,
Speaker 1: and I understand it. It is a very good episode
Speaker 1: and star studded. It opens on Melinda Warner and saying
Speaker 1: tag and bag, so I love some poetry next to
Speaker 1: a dead body. This body is found on the water
Speaker 1: with a beautiful view of the city behind her, and
Speaker 1: they're showing us the city and it's great, but then
Speaker 1: you know, also bad things happen and you will be
Speaker 1: washed ashore. Maloney and Benson show up saying, hey, what's up,
Speaker 1: what's the scoop?
Speaker 2: And Maloney says, what's up, Doc? And I get it
Speaker 2: because she's a doctor, but also bugs bunny. They're just
Speaker 2: cracking a lot of jokes for there being a dead woman.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize, but I do love watching Olivia put
Speaker 2: latex gloves on, so she's getting ready to touch the woman, even.
Speaker 1: Though the the emmy's there.
Speaker 2: Whatever, though, we find out the victim's name is Veronica Tandy.
Speaker 2: She's thirty four years old. She was stabbed in the
Speaker 2: back and raped from behind, and there's a bruise on
Speaker 2: her neck so she was yoked.
Speaker 1: Yikes.
Speaker 2: And then back at the examiner's office, there's no DNA found,
Speaker 2: but their spermicide from condoms is found. And then also
Speaker 2: Warner's like putting organs onto a scale and like it
Speaker 2: looked like a liver, like she was just holding a
Speaker 2: lot of organs.
Speaker 1: They were that that usually.
Speaker 2: Doesn't happen, and it's not like they're going to donate
Speaker 2: them because that would have to be faster. So I
Speaker 2: don't know why it's just to weigh all these organs out.
Speaker 1: I bet you. It's part of the autopsy process. Is like, wait,
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a great question. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It felt fucked.
Speaker 1: Oh, but yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: It was for a purpose because they did find a
Speaker 2: single fetus present, and the fetus is seven to eight
Speaker 2: weeks old. And then the cause of death is cardio
Speaker 2: failure because she when she was stabbed in the back
Speaker 2: of collapsed still lung and then she died from her
Speaker 2: heart stopping and it was a giant knife brutal.
Speaker 1: Can we just can I say a quick question about
Speaker 1: the condoms. Do all condoms have spermicide in them?
Speaker 2: Maybe not, because maybe some people are allergic to spermicide.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was just wondering that, But why.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you If you're going to use a condom, might
Speaker 2: as well, Yeah, right, make it make it a sperm
Speaker 2: murder scene if you can. I guess if you're doing
Speaker 2: like in vitro style on your own with a base,
Speaker 2: or maybe someone jerks off into the condom and then
Speaker 2: without spermicides, then the sperm doesn't die and then you
Speaker 2: can use the sperm in the condom. I don't think
Speaker 2: that's what manufacturers were thinking of. But I think there's
Speaker 2: for sure non spermicide ones.
Speaker 5: Okay, it says in fact, most condoms do not have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like you have to like buy
Speaker 1: spermicide and like add it sometimes, which is but why would.
Speaker 2: You always want to? Well I gave an example of
Speaker 2: why you wouldn't, so I understand why not.
Speaker 1: This is that one extremely common example. Yeah, okay, sorry
Speaker 1: to interrupt, you move on.
Speaker 2: No, it was important stuff, girl. We need to know
Speaker 2: about condoms. I saw our Steph Tolov on TikTok. She
Speaker 2: did a TikTok that she's sick of guys having magnum
Speaker 2: condoms that don't need them. And I didn't realize that
Speaker 2: that's the thing that happens, Like are they like what
Speaker 2: do guys think is going to happen? It's going to
Speaker 2: slide off?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know when your dick will look smaller
Speaker 1: and no woman is looking at what condom you're putting on.
Speaker 1: They're not like sweet a magnum. Yes, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I just have never even noticed, like just get it on.
Speaker 2: Her tiktoks are funny, y as she was just like
Speaker 2: I but I see it like, I don't know, so
Speaker 2: that's just something it has this happened to you let
Speaker 2: us know.
Speaker 1: We do meet the victim's husband.
Speaker 2: He is sad, he's crying, but of course they think
Speaker 2: he's guilty immediately, and Benson at this point sheh has
Speaker 2: short spiky hair, Jim teacher chic. The highlights are popping.
Speaker 2: The husband is screaming, you're supposed to be home. He's
Speaker 2: banging on the glass, and Benson does give him a
Speaker 2: loving embrace, which I really enjoyed, and then we cut
Speaker 2: to the credits. We come back from the credits and
Speaker 2: we're in then to irrogation room and the husband says
Speaker 2: that they were supposed to meet last night. She didn't
Speaker 2: show up at seven pm dinner. He did call her assistant,
Speaker 2: who said she left early, around four pm. But he
Speaker 2: wasn't suspicious of anything because he's she is head of
Speaker 2: personnel for a company that manufactures gaming software, so he
Speaker 2: thought maybe she was out recruiting and didn't think of
Speaker 2: it as a big emergency. When he's asked like are
Speaker 2: people mad at her or does she have any enemies,
Speaker 2: he says, well, she fires people, so everyone that she
Speaker 2: fires is mad at her, so he thinks like maybe
Speaker 2: a fire lunatic did want to attack her. He's still
Speaker 2: really sad, crying and is like, what am I going
Speaker 2: to do? How am I going to tell my kids?
Speaker 2: And that's a nice thing, that is. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: sometimes you forget that you then go have to tell
Speaker 2: your kids your mom was murdered.
Speaker 1: So that sucks.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really hope Jared never has to do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we all think that, we all do. I
Speaker 2: don't know when we know it has to do that,
Speaker 2: even enemies. Yeah, yeah, even the worst. Yeah, because you
Speaker 2: know the kid. It's not you know, maybe we want
Speaker 2: to like make a parent feel like shit, but we
Speaker 2: don't want to punish children. I don't have any children enemies.
Speaker 2: I would say I have none of those.
Speaker 1: The very opposite. Actually, you have a fucking fan club.
Speaker 1: That's the day.
Speaker 2: It is really silly. Oh what's this woman who does
Speaker 2: the least amount for me? She'll be my favorite. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Maloney then asks like, hey, your wife's pregnant, and he goes,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? So he didn't know that
Speaker 2: his wife was pregnant yet, so of course they're suspicious.
Speaker 2: So Benson and Stable are not talking to Kraigan. And
Speaker 2: at first I only noticed, like, oh, Olivia's wearing a turtleneck,
Speaker 2: but then her nipples were hard and I did see it.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is disrespectful to our you know, matriarch.
Speaker 2: But if you want to zoom in like the criminal
Speaker 2: on this show, actually will find out. If you want
Speaker 2: to pretend you're the criminal, you can zoom it on
Speaker 2: her hard nipples. Okay, So then Kragan tells it would
Speaker 2: be funny if Craigan's like, yo, your nips are harder,
Speaker 2: you pumps to see me, But.
Speaker 1: He doesn't.
Speaker 2: He just he tells them to go talk to recently
Speaker 2: fired people. He's going to get a psych profile going.
Speaker 2: And Benson and Stabler, like I said, they're suspicious because
Speaker 2: the dad didn't know about the pregnancy. Do they need
Speaker 2: to establish paternity. We will see what happens. The detectives
Speaker 2: had to comp you game, and her coworker is so
Speaker 2: sad and said everyone loved her. People were mad at her,
Speaker 2: but it makes no sense because the department heads actually
Speaker 2: decide who gets fired. She's just the messenger and you shouldn't,
Speaker 2: you know, kill the messenger literally, But of course she
Speaker 2: said everyone is mad at her, no matter what. But
Speaker 2: she also said everyone loved her, So this woman does
Speaker 2: make makes no sense. Yeah, everyone everyone's mad at her,
Speaker 2: So I don't know, but this woman did like her.
Speaker 2: But five people have been fired within the past three
Speaker 2: months and they were mad. So they're gonna go talk
Speaker 2: to these people. Obviously, they talked to another person from
Speaker 2: the job and they call her Ronnie. So they call
Speaker 2: Veronica Ronnie, and I kind of like that. I've never
Speaker 2: heard that before.
Speaker 1: I call him. We used to call her friend Veronica.
Speaker 2: Vern Oh that's cute, yeah, or in Russian vula.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's even prettier in Russian, yeah, but never a Ronnie.
Speaker 2: So the friend also did not know that Ronnie was pregnant,
Speaker 2: and she was just like, there's no fucking way she's
Speaker 2: having an affair with Jason Mayberry. So we find about
Speaker 2: that this Jason Mayberry guy. We want to know more information.
Speaker 2: Is he having an affair?
Speaker 1: Is he not? Are they friends? Is he mad? Is
Speaker 1: he the killer? We don't fucking know.
Speaker 2: We do find out, however, that Ronnie is a bleeding
Speaker 2: heart and she likes to help people, and the friend
Speaker 2: does not like that. Olivia is insinuating otherwise. So Benson
Speaker 2: is confused, however, because Jason did send her flowers and
Speaker 2: the friend said, it's because Ronnie talked to some people
Speaker 2: and gave recommendations, and Jason felt grateful for that and
Speaker 2: recommendation for what's going on? Jason wanted to be a
Speaker 2: police officer, So is he going to the police academy?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 2: So now Stabler's talking to the head of security who
Speaker 2: looks like that was like Jason's direct boss. And the
Speaker 2: head security guy thinks that he quit the job because
Speaker 2: he was embarrassed because his mother would come in all
Speaker 2: the time and call and bust his chops in front
Speaker 2: of everyone.
Speaker 1: And she was just like a.
Speaker 2: Hovering mom that wouldn't leave our adult son alone. And
Speaker 2: so where's Jason now? Can we get an address? We
Speaker 2: get an address in Jersey for him, and we also
Speaker 2: find out that a man named Greg Specter could not
Speaker 2: stand Veronica. So Jason turned Greg in to Veronica because
Speaker 2: Greg was using security cameras to zoom in on women
Speaker 2: and be a creep. Where's Greg now? Work in sanitation?
Speaker 2: So Benson and Stabler go down to talk to Greg,
Speaker 2: who is surrounded by tons of garbage bags, and he's like,
Speaker 2: Jason lied, and that Jason's actually the fucking creep, not him,
Speaker 2: that he was not zooming in on anyone, and he
Speaker 2: caught Jason doing it, and then Jason like covered his
Speaker 2: tracks by saying Greg was zooming in on women on
Speaker 2: the security cameras. But he does seem really shocked that
Speaker 2: Veronica's dead and he was home alone, so no alibi,
Speaker 2: so that's dangerous. It could be all put on him.
Speaker 2: But he said that Veronica came to see him a
Speaker 2: week ago to get his side of the story because
Speaker 2: she started to feel like maybe something was up and
Speaker 2: it wasn't fully Greg. So Veronica does cover her bases
Speaker 2: and seems to be very she was very good at
Speaker 2: her job. We could say that, and that Veronica actually
Speaker 2: called to try to get Greg back and reinstate it
Speaker 2: into his job because she thought that Jason was the creep.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like a bleeding heart, always trying to do
Speaker 2: the right thing. So Jason is a rich boy if
Speaker 2: I was a rich boy. So Benson and Stable are
Speaker 2: like a giant, rich, opulent ass mansion. There's a may
Speaker 2: dressed in classic made gear and gold everywhere. It's just
Speaker 2: very opulent and very wild. And the mom says he
Speaker 2: doesn't come home often because of the home reminds him
Speaker 2: of his dead father, so he doesn't really love it there.
Speaker 1: And the mom like any.
Speaker 2: Rich person aggressive, cocky, I don't like, you don't tell
Speaker 2: me shit, YadA YadA. Benson's like, do you know what
Speaker 2: obstruction is?
Speaker 1: Madam? I always remember this line where she goes, I
Speaker 1: don't like cryptic conversations. They require a prevaricating nature that
Speaker 1: I do not possess. I like, always remember that line
Speaker 1: from this episode.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you remembered it because I didn't write
Speaker 2: it down because I was not about to learn how
Speaker 2: to spell that word. So I'm glad that was just
Speaker 2: on the tip of your tongue.
Speaker 1: What is it perfect? I was like, I'm not spelling.
Speaker 2: This, I I think I wrote. She was bitchy and argumentative,
Speaker 2: like that's all I That's how I said it. But
Speaker 2: then you know, obstruction, this is a murder trial, and
Speaker 2: we need to fuck this is a murder investigation. We
Speaker 2: need to talk to your fucking son.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They straighten her right out. Yeah, it's like we
Speaker 1: don't care. Someone is murdered, like fuck you and what
Speaker 1: you like and don't like.
Speaker 2: So the mom puts her teacup down and they cut
Speaker 2: to a shot of Benson knocking on an apartment door.
Speaker 2: The unit number is sixteen. So it made me think
Speaker 2: of My Super Sweet sixteen, one of the best shows ever.
Speaker 1: Did you watch it? Like you know? I caught a
Speaker 1: couple episodes. Oh that's wild. I didn't grasp you, not really,
Speaker 1: but my cousin and I are obsessed with the Scarlett
Speaker 1: Johanson SNL sketch they do of it that I have
Speaker 1: not seen, and it's like, I wish you could see
Speaker 1: how dummy you look right now, give me one thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: That's like what the kid says to their dad.
Speaker 2: Okay, so who opens the door of Unit sixteen? Chad
Speaker 2: motherfucking Low. So yeah, Chad Low is there? SVU legend,
Speaker 2: I would say, legend in his own right of lots.
Speaker 4: Of different ways. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's wearing a long sleeve button down shirt,
Speaker 2: nerdy vibes. I wouldn't really expect him to be working
Speaker 2: security or wanting to be a cop. So you know,
Speaker 2: you can't judge a book by its cover, I guess
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to let them in because it's a messy,
Speaker 2: which I do relate to. And Stabler's like, we don't mind,
Speaker 2: and chadlow like his mother, quick quick with the sass,
Speaker 2: and goes, well I mind.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So Stabler suggests heading down to the precinct and Jason
Speaker 2: responds greg Spector hated her, and Benson goes, we already
Speaker 2: talked to him, so not going to work on us, babe,
Speaker 2: And Jason is like, I don't see how I can
Speaker 2: help you, and Stabler plays this game where it's like,
Speaker 2: we really need your help help us find the sky.
Speaker 2: It's for Veronica, we need you, we need you.
Speaker 1: Sold there's Mike multiple times where they have like hop
Speaker 1: wannabes and they're just like, we need your help to
Speaker 1: help us solve the case. Like it's like treating a
Speaker 1: little kid like they're a superhero or something.
Speaker 2: Well also if it's just like it doesn't even have
Speaker 2: to be someone that wants to be.
Speaker 1: A cop, like any guy.
Speaker 2: Remember that episode where the marine, Yeah, the marine, but
Speaker 2: also there's a South Park the season like during the
Speaker 2: Clinton Trump election that season put like is incredible and
Speaker 2: they trick.
Speaker 1: All these in cell trolls.
Speaker 2: From the internet. They're like, we need you to help us.
Speaker 2: And all these guys think they're James Bond and they
Speaker 2: all arrive like every guy thinks that he's just one
Speaker 2: ask away from helping the CIA.
Speaker 1: You know, so true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not questioning it at all, And I feel
Speaker 2: like I would fall for it too, So I'm not
Speaker 2: This isn't a full man hating moment. And I think
Speaker 2: I've even talked about the South Park before, but I
Speaker 2: definitely yeah.
Speaker 1: If I got a call, well, yeah, if they were like, Lisa,
Speaker 1: we've heard your podcast. You obviously know a lot about murder.
Speaker 1: We're gonna need your help with this case. We need
Speaker 1: a new set of eyes. And I feel like you're
Speaker 1: the one that I would you you'd be like, well,
Speaker 1: it's my duty, guys, I can't record today. I'm helping
Speaker 1: with an investigation. Oh I would. I would totally do that.
Speaker 2: Craigan introduces the detectives to B. D. Wong aka George
Speaker 2: Wang aka yes you are right. This is an introduction
Speaker 2: to B. D.
Speaker 1: Wong.
Speaker 2: This is his first episode of SVU, so this is
Speaker 2: immediately iconic canon. This is his first episode. He's wearing glasses,
Speaker 2: a lot of layers. He's ready to work, and Huang
Speaker 2: has some input, of course, you know, and the detectives
Speaker 2: don't want to listen. They hate science, they hate reason,
Speaker 2: and they hate anyone that's going to tell him don't
Speaker 2: just puch a suspect in the face. So he tells
Speaker 2: Stabler like, you should go at him alone because he
Speaker 2: has a problem with women, and Benson says, yeah, all
Speaker 2: rapists have a problem with women. We don't need you,
Speaker 2: but I'll sit this out, but excuse me, and he
Speaker 2: was like, listen, this person's extremely shy. He attacks people
Speaker 2: from the behind, and Stabler wants to argue and goes,
Speaker 2: that's to conceal, not shy, and Huang is like, okay,
Speaker 2: but your man isn't bold. No one notices him, did they.
Speaker 2: He seems pretty humble and eager to please, even shy,
Speaker 2: so cocky chill love it, like I love that. I
Speaker 2: love his vibe during this, And since he applied for
Speaker 2: the police academy multiple times, they already have a psychic
Speaker 2: owl on him, so Olivia is gonna go do that.
Speaker 2: And then Stabler talks to Craigan and is like, George
Speaker 2: just caught here. I don't fucking want to talk to him.
Speaker 2: I don't understand. Blah blah blah blah blah. Classic, classic, classic,
Speaker 2: from the get go. They need a confession. They have
Speaker 2: no evidence, so Stabler really has to go at Jason
Speaker 2: and like pretend that they're friends. So Stabler and Jason
Speaker 2: talk about how the coffee sucks at precincts. He gotta
Speaker 2: get used to it if you want to be a cop.
Speaker 2: He's like, whoa, how'd you know? And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: when there're star applicants, we all know, all the cops.
Speaker 2: We're all talking about the new hot shot students and
Speaker 2: believes it fully and yeah, Stabler is like a spider,
Speaker 2: you know, he's weaving a little web for this idiot
Speaker 2: to fall into. And then he goes, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll help with the application. Even give me your info.
Speaker 2: I'll work this out for you. There must be a
Speaker 2: snag at the application center. So Jason's smiling, He's pumped.
Speaker 2: He wants to be a cop. Stabler says something about
Speaker 2: his mommy paying his bills, and he goes, she does
Speaker 2: not pay my bills. I have a trust. But that's
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: Right pretty much. I mean, like he probably got the
Speaker 1: trust from like his dad dying too, or he you know,
Speaker 1: but it is still family money. You're not like earning
Speaker 1: the money that you're spending.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do rich kids is that like common? Do
Speaker 2: rich kids think a trust is not your parents paying
Speaker 2: for Also, if I had a trust, I would be grateful.
Speaker 1: I would be like, yes, never have to work again,
Speaker 1: Mom's money. I don't care.
Speaker 2: But I guess he has a lot to prove. And
Speaker 2: Stabler's like, well, why would you even want to work
Speaker 2: at all? This makes no sense, and like, why quit
Speaker 2: a place where everyone liked and respected you. I don't
Speaker 2: understand it. Jason says, you'd prefer not to talk about it,
Speaker 2: and so Stabler needs to play the game goes, maybe
Speaker 2: you quit before they could fire you, maybe security camera stuff,
Speaker 2: you little fucking creep, And he goes, no, that's greg
Speaker 2: I never did that. So it's like, then, why did
Speaker 2: you quit? Fucking tell us? So there's a deep sigh
Speaker 2: and he says that he was being sexually harassed but
Speaker 2: didn't want to get the woman in trouble, so he
Speaker 2: had to leave. He said Veronica was sexually harassing him.
Speaker 2: Veronica's husband now is in the precinct. We're so close
Speaker 2: to uh, one of those moments where everyone meets in
Speaker 2: the hallways. It doesn't happen, but we have Veronica's husband's
Speaker 2: holding like an open package box situation, and he's disheveled,
Speaker 2: he's sad, and he's trying to talk to Benson, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, I'm busy, okay, And it's like his wife
Speaker 2: was murdered. I don't know what you're so busy doing,
Speaker 2: but can you just give him a fucking couple seconds.
Speaker 2: And so they continue with the show and tell, and
Speaker 2: basically he explains how his camcorder broke, so his wife
Speaker 2: bought him a new one as a present and it
Speaker 2: showed up as a surprise, and he goes, you know,
Speaker 2: you've been digging around dirting my murdered wife's name. Read
Speaker 2: the card. Read the fucking card. And the card says
Speaker 2: something about like baby number four is on your way.
Speaker 1: Shoot until you.
Speaker 2: Drop, have fun. So there was no affair. She was
Speaker 2: waiting to surprise him with the baby news. There's no secrets,
Speaker 2: there's no nothing like that, Like truly, she just wanted
Speaker 2: to tell her husband that they were gonna have a baby.
Speaker 2: And a cute way with the present, So bd Wong
Speaker 2: is in the background of the scene the whole time
Speaker 2: holding the coffee cup, doing incredible background work. So now
Speaker 2: we cut to Olivia. She's wearing a red scarf for
Speaker 2: no reason, and she's talking to a cop teacher who
Speaker 2: has the scoop on why Jason is not allowed to
Speaker 2: be a cop. And so he barely passed the physical
Speaker 2: and not even close to passing the psyche val. He
Speaker 2: goes super aggressive when stressed, and Benson is like, aren't
Speaker 2: most cops? So that's a read And Benson brings up,
Speaker 2: don't most psychopaths know how to fake it and pass
Speaker 2: a psych test? And the cop teacher Daddy says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why we know he's a I don't know is saying.
Speaker 2: He goes, that's why he must be a real secret squirrel.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want that well, because now I know squirrel friends
Speaker 2: and squirrels have little nuts. Oh nuts, secret squirrel The
Speaker 2: squirrels get nuts. It's a secret nut maybe yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: that just I don't know.
Speaker 1: But that's why RuPaul calls them squirrel friends because they
Speaker 1: hide their nuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly it. Benson is confused why there's two
Speaker 2: letters of recommendation in the file, and he says, well,
Speaker 2: one is a glowing review and one is actually this
Speaker 2: woman pulling her support, So done.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And so she gave a glowing review and then said, no,
Speaker 2: never mind. Actually he's a fucking squirrel. So yeah, we
Speaker 2: we say insane and crazy too much. Maybe we'll switch
Speaker 2: to squirrel. We'll just start yeah chip Mo oh yeah, or.
Speaker 1: Chip Mo get wet.
Speaker 2: So back to Stabler and Jason. They're having a full
Speaker 2: day at the interrogation room. Jason says, I'm tired, and
Speaker 2: Stabler's like, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: I need you here.
Speaker 2: We gotta do victimology together. I need your help. So
Speaker 2: they're dancing back and forth. He's obviously lying, Stabler's playing games.
Speaker 2: So basically it's like, no one believes that this hot, married,
Speaker 2: happy woman that's successful as hell would be with you. Okay,
Speaker 2: But so during this like dancing game, blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blaes back and forth, we're an interrogation, Jason lets it slip.
Speaker 2: So Chadlow's character lets it slip that he knew she
Speaker 2: was pregnant. So immediately it's like the legally blonde per moment,
Speaker 2: it comes to Stabler, how do you know she was pregnant?
Speaker 2: She told me, she told you, but not her husband
Speaker 2: didn't tell anybody else but you. So wait, so you
Speaker 2: were close or would you not close?
Speaker 1: Like, what's going on? When did she tell you?
Speaker 2: And then he goes, I don't really remember, and then
Speaker 2: Stabler's beeper beeps. I bet there are people listening to
Speaker 2: the show who've never even heard or seen a beeper
Speaker 2: in their fucking lives. Yeah, I didn't know two thousand
Speaker 2: and two even had beepers.
Speaker 1: I thought we were posting the beeper game. My mom
Speaker 1: had a beeper forever. But she's a doctor, I know,
Speaker 1: but she had one way after she had a cell phone,
Speaker 1: but she's a doctor. She stayed in the beeper game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know doctors are allowed to have beepers
Speaker 2: and like taxi drivers, but no one else. So then
Speaker 2: we get Cabot. We have Cabot behind the glass, and
Speaker 2: now that I know that, like Wong in March are
Speaker 2: friends in real life, it is really special to see
Speaker 2: them together, Like, yeah, I get really happy, and we
Speaker 2: need her on the podcast. Let us know what Cabot
Speaker 2: centric episode you would like us to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we'll put up a thing on our Instagram
Speaker 1: stories too, of like tell us your favorite cabot today.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so then we can approach her and then
Speaker 2: if she but well, now we're friends with everyone, so
Speaker 2: hopefully Diane or Wong will be like, bitch, I don't
Speaker 2: care if you don't want to, you gotta come on.
Speaker 1: We're with you.
Speaker 2: So she goes, we can't hold him. Stabler walks in, goes,
Speaker 2: excuse me, like he just became a cop, and so
Speaker 2: he's mad. He's like, what do you mean let him walk?
Speaker 2: That bastard knew she was pregnant and killed her anyway,
Speaker 2: And she's like, no, I know, I'm on your side,
Speaker 2: but you can't force him to stay. And without a miranda,
Speaker 2: it's admissible. And Craigan's like, you're tying our hands, and
Speaker 2: it's like.
Speaker 1: Yes, there are laws. What do you want her to do?
Speaker 2: Like we know he sucks, but get a confession or
Speaker 2: mirandize him and arrest him but there's no evidence, Like
Speaker 2: fuck off. I just hate when they get so mad
Speaker 2: at these lawyers and yell and do yell at Barba,
Speaker 2: the way they yell at these women.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know Barba's like, so plays,
Speaker 1: it's so chill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's always condescending and making a little riddle a rhyme.
Speaker 1: He's like a little troll under a brig Like I
Speaker 1: can't think of a time of him ever yelling back.
Speaker 1: He's just like actually subsection thirty four, you know, like
Speaker 1: he just like kind of knows everything.
Speaker 2: So Wong gives Stabler more scoop and he says, this
Speaker 2: guy hates women. Get on his level. The nastier the better.
Speaker 2: He wants to talk. But like then Stabler's like won
Speaker 2: want he catch on? And Wong's like, yeah, but who cares?
Speaker 2: It's worth it? Like, who cares if he catches on?
Speaker 2: So Stabler comes in, pulls up his sleeves and this
Speaker 2: is like an SVU Bingo moment. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: bingo board, this would be on it. And Stabler does
Speaker 2: a great job. He's just like, oh my bitch wife,
Speaker 2: sixteen long dry years of marriage, too many kids, creditors.
Speaker 2: If I don't give her the credit cards, she doesn't
Speaker 2: fuck me. And then Jason's able to guess how the
Speaker 2: oldest child is, which is sixteen. So that's a running
Speaker 2: sixteen theme, and Stabler's like, wait, I don't lad you
Speaker 2: know that, And Jason's like, you're a fucking cliche, bro.
Speaker 2: You're a responsible guy. You know, you got caught up,
Speaker 2: you got her pregnant, and she was just she's looking
Speaker 2: for a free ride and now your life sucks, so whatever.
Speaker 2: But you love your job, don't you, baby, And he's like,
Speaker 2: I love my job.
Speaker 1: You know, I love putting bad guys away.
Speaker 2: So they're like bonding and he's not catching on to
Speaker 2: what's happening at all. But then so basically Jason's like,
Speaker 2: but you like to put bad guys away, and Sailor says, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I actually want to know why. I like to
Speaker 2: know why they end up that way, which is not
Speaker 2: true because anytime Wong wants to bring in an idea,
Speaker 2: he doesn't listen. So it's like you actually don't care
Speaker 2: at all, and when someone gives you a reason, you
Speaker 2: go no excuses, So uh whatever. So Stabler flips it
Speaker 2: up again and tries to get Jason to talk by
Speaker 2: saying there's no innocent victims. There's always a reason why.
Speaker 2: I'm an experienced detective and women are It's always at
Speaker 2: fault and there's always a reason why they are attacked,
Speaker 2: and so he's just basically throwing this fishing line into
Speaker 2: the pond and seeing if Jason takes a bite. So
Speaker 2: Jason starts talking about Veronica. She was a bitch. She
Speaker 2: took my dreams away. She wrote to the academy and
Speaker 2: said I wasn't fit. She wanted me to meet her
Speaker 2: outside of a store and said if I slept with
Speaker 2: her then she would fix it. But I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that to her husband. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have like disrespected him that way. Sabler asks which
Speaker 2: department store. He says, Crazy Bob's on Licks, So it's
Speaker 2: an electronics store, which I like Crazy Bobs. So now
Speaker 2: we cut to Benson and Benson goes to Fortress Armored
Speaker 2: Cars to talk to Jason's new boss at the job
Speaker 2: that he went to after he left that video game
Speaker 2: cup place. So he says he's going to the police
Speaker 2: Academy after only working there two weeks. The boss is
Speaker 2: kind of annoyed. Benson asks if he was a good employee,
Speaker 2: and the boss says, I suppose, but he was a
Speaker 2: real chatty cathy about his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Ding ding ding ding ding.
Speaker 2: You know, clue So the boss says, there's all these
Speaker 2: photos of women in his locker, and he goes, but
Speaker 2: if you want my opinion, this woman doesn't even know
Speaker 2: he exists. And there's no doors on the lockers, and
Speaker 2: I kind of love the boss. He goes, if they
Speaker 2: got something to hide, they can leave it at home.
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, yeah, I don't care what. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I like this boss. He seems like a
Speaker 2: reasonable guy. So at his locker there's all these photos
Speaker 2: of Veronica from the security cameras. They're all like her
Speaker 2: in a distance, and there's the candids of like closeups
Speaker 2: of her boobs. So Benson calls and goes, get us
Speaker 2: the search warrant, bitch. So they go to his apartment
Speaker 2: and there's tons and tons of boxes of condoms, so
Speaker 2: many condoms. And then also like through digging in the closet,
Speaker 2: Benson Caesar's all this women's clothing. She goes, I didn't
Speaker 2: know there was a roommate. Maybe he's a cross dress
Speaker 2: or I'm not really sure. And then there's a shirt
Speaker 2: that says GM on it. So there's a monogram on
Speaker 2: one of the shirts and the text says yeah, there's
Speaker 2: also like women's underwear in the laundry basket. What's going on?
Speaker 2: And then on top of the cabinet there's a bunch
Speaker 2: of bloody happens with locations written on them, and Benson
Speaker 2: says like, walk the panties through the lab, rush the DNA.
Speaker 2: Let's get these happens tested. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Move,
Speaker 2: move move, And then Stabler, now it's time. It's game time.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's quarter four. You've been holding out on me,
Speaker 2: and I don't like being played. I respected you, and
Speaker 2: you're treating me like a bitch. You're just like those
Speaker 2: women that lie, but you don't lie to me. You
Speaker 2: need to stop lying. And it's just really great. And
Speaker 2: then when Jason says I want to go home, Stabler
Speaker 2: does a full like act out and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to go home and pretends to cry. He
Speaker 2: starts throwing the photos from the locker one by one
Speaker 2: onto Jason's face. It's a really good see and so
Speaker 2: Jason's like, I'm not lying, I'm not lying. But then
Speaker 2: Stablert goes, wait, you are dude. Did she harass you
Speaker 2: or is she your girlfriend? You can't have it both
Speaker 2: ways and Stabler says like, yeah, you can leave if
Speaker 2: you want to leave, but you're gonna seem guilty, just
Speaker 2: like all the all the games. And they're like and
Speaker 2: the press is going to like scrutinize you, and your
Speaker 2: rich mom is going to be mad.
Speaker 1: And Jason is like, I love Ronnie.
Speaker 2: She was gonna leave her husband to be with me,
Speaker 2: and she couldn't because she got pregnant and that baby
Speaker 2: could have been mine. And Stabler goes, no, no, no, there
Speaker 2: is no baby, there is no mother. Everyone is dead.
Speaker 2: You yoked her, you raped her, and when she pleaded
Speaker 2: for her life an unborn child, you stuck your knife
Speaker 2: into her back. Admit it. I love staying. This is
Speaker 2: the thing with Stabler. In this moment, I'd have sex
Speaker 2: with Stabler. You know, I'm not mad at him anymore.
Speaker 2: Chadlow screams, I did not kill her. It was someone else,
Speaker 2: and I want a lawyer. Uh oh, this is not good.
Speaker 2: But Stabler doesn't get him a lawyer and basically keeps
Speaker 2: playing games with him, and it's so annoying. So he's
Speaker 2: turning and screaming. Stabler's like, we're almost done. Just answer
Speaker 2: the questions and you can leave. He's doing good cop,
Speaker 2: bad cop, but in one person, he's like being a
Speaker 2: Cynthia Nixon right now, a lot of multiple personalities coming
Speaker 2: out of Stabler. And Benson is now visiting the rich
Speaker 2: Momy in Jersey, who's reading a book and Benson is
Speaker 2: playing a game. Benson goes, why is your blouse at
Speaker 2: Jason's house? Do you live with him? And she goes, listen,
Speaker 2: my son's not a murderer. And she goes, why do
Speaker 2: you leave your clothing at his place? And she goes,
Speaker 2: I told you, Jason isn't like coming here. I visit
Speaker 2: him in the city. We could do dinner with someone,
Speaker 2: to go to the theater, and sometimes it's too late
Speaker 2: to drive home, so I spend the night there and
Speaker 2: it's none of your fucking business. And Benson goes, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: but there's only a murphy bed and I didn't see
Speaker 2: a cot.
Speaker 1: Where do you sleep?
Speaker 2: Listen? I get that it's like expensive to live in
Speaker 2: New York and he's on a truck. A murphy bed
Speaker 2: makes no sense. Why would it just be a murphy bed?
Speaker 2: If you have a rich mommy in a trust, you
Speaker 2: have a bed, you have a real bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Murphy Bed is weird.
Speaker 2: I don't there there's no way he lives in a studio.
Speaker 2: And even if I just I don't buy.
Speaker 1: The Murphy Bed situation.
Speaker 2: Or maybe he's one of those rich kids that like
Speaker 2: you know, wants to pretend they're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know a lot of those.
Speaker 2: Someone tweeted once I think it was Dwayne Perkins where
Speaker 2: it's like I love seeing people's houses during Thanksgiving break
Speaker 2: like all these people who pretend they're poor, and then like,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, is that an island in your kitchen? Benson's yeah,
Speaker 2: why not get a hotel? Why not drive home? And
Speaker 2: I just thought to myself, like that is a level
Speaker 2: of rich I would really love to be. I would
Speaker 2: love to just I actually don't want to drive home.
Speaker 2: I'll get the hotel right here for the night. Like yeah,
Speaker 2: I would love that kind of disposable, expendable.
Speaker 1: But a woman like this could get a driver. I
Speaker 1: mean there's like so many ways she can get home.
Speaker 2: Like it's like, oh, I agree with you, but I'm
Speaker 2: just thinking about like nights where I'm out and you
Speaker 2: are like, yes, you know what, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: go grab a room at the Maritime Hotel.
Speaker 1: And want you guys just come back up and we'll
Speaker 1: hang out a little longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like I'm not taking a new ber, I'm
Speaker 2: getting a room. Like I just would love to be
Speaker 2: able to just stay in hotel rooms and not care
Speaker 2: about any price ever.
Speaker 1: Like that.
Speaker 2: It's just awesome. So then Benson great line. She goes,
Speaker 2: what the hell did you do to your son? And
Speaker 2: mommy Dearis says, I don't like your question and I
Speaker 2: don't like your tone.
Speaker 1: Please leave.
Speaker 2: So back at the precinct, Houong is like jolly'sych boy.
Speaker 1: He's so pumped.
Speaker 2: He's like holding the hatpin trying to crack the case
Speaker 2: with Kragan six pins with corresponding complaints. And I think
Speaker 2: I didn't mention this, but every pin had a location
Speaker 2: labeled to it, and each of those locations correspond to
Speaker 2: a complaint of someone being.
Speaker 1: Like someone pricked me out of nowhere. Yeah, well it happen.
Speaker 2: And he talks about Peakerism and he was just like pakaristic.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I didn't see it, so you know pekarism.
Speaker 2: I guess he gets excited stabbing women's flesh, and the
Speaker 2: happens were like the attacks were in the butt in
Speaker 2: the back, so not one can even id an attack her.
Speaker 2: So it like it works with the from the backshy
Speaker 2: moment type thing. So Stabler's now question Jason again, but
Speaker 2: now about the happens. Benson arrives and Stabler acts like
Speaker 2: he hates her, and when she leaves, Stabler asks Jason,
Speaker 2: how long has your mother been sleeping with you? Rude?
Speaker 2: And then so Jason's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: This is crazy and Stabler goes, she had no right
Speaker 2: to touch you and abuse you. And Jason goes, you're crazy.
Speaker 2: And now he starts banging on the mirror and then
Speaker 2: he like he like tries to flip it back on
Speaker 2: Stabler like, you're you guys are gross? Is this what
Speaker 2: happens to the sex police? Just sex on the brain
Speaker 2: all the time? My mom never never touched me like that.
Speaker 2: And I really love this next shot so so much.
Speaker 2: I think we should take a screenshot.
Speaker 1: Of this scene. I think it's so good just to remember.
Speaker 2: But so Stabler like it's just like the direction of
Speaker 2: this is amazing. We have to look up the director,
Speaker 2: so like Stabler's in the background and then it's Jason
Speaker 2: right up onto the two way mirror banging and yelling,
Speaker 2: and then we see like like I don't know, like
Speaker 2: we're at an aquarium. Craig Benson in a super leaned
Speaker 2: and focused Kwang are like watching what's going on and
Speaker 2: it looks awesome, and Huang looks like what I look
Speaker 2: like when I'm at art museums, Like ooh, like, what's
Speaker 2: like trying to be smarter than you are? I guess
Speaker 2: Kwang is smart. He as a PhD and works with
Speaker 2: the FBI. Okay, So Jason starts banging his head on
Speaker 2: the mirror never never good, and he goes, shut the
Speaker 2: hell up, so we know he's cracking a little, and
Speaker 2: Jason goes that it's his fault that his mom would
Speaker 2: rape him. And then he slides down and starts putting
Speaker 2: his fingers in his mouth and licking them and truly like,
Speaker 2: how did he not win an Emmy for this?
Speaker 1: This is Emmy territory actic. It's very very eerie and creepy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he starts doing an act out impression psycho moment.
Speaker 2: His face looks like the new version of it, like
Speaker 2: that new actor like just creepy eyes and his tongues
Speaker 2: out and he's saying like, I'm a dirty boy. I
Speaker 2: can't keep my hands to myself. And then he keeps
Speaker 2: going back and forth doing what I assume is impressions
Speaker 2: of his mom. So it's like lying, boy, don't look,
Speaker 2: oh look, don't touch no touch me. Oh yeah that
Speaker 2: feels good. No, come here, oh baby, no, that doesn't
Speaker 2: feel good. You're a good boy.
Speaker 1: Sh and then he shushes.
Speaker 2: Like Blair Saint Clair the shimmysh Yeah, he does a
Speaker 2: shimmy shush. And then the mom runs in after Jason's
Speaker 2: now like been handcuffed and like being walked around and
Speaker 2: like what have you done? Do you know what this
Speaker 2: will do to me? So this is a narcissist to
Speaker 2: not worry that her son might be a killer who's
Speaker 2: going to jail forever and like a rapist and a weirdo.
Speaker 1: It's like, look what you've done to me?
Speaker 2: Oh, and she calls him a filthy, lying bastard.
Speaker 1: So we get to the judge.
Speaker 2: Love this judge Margaret Berry played by Doris Black. She
Speaker 2: died in twenty eleven. Oh so we haven't had her
Speaker 2: in a while, but she is one of my favorites.
Speaker 2: And she was also in Sex and the City, one
Speaker 2: of my favorite shows. She was one of the Jews
Speaker 2: at the synagogue when Charlotte goes to the mixer and
Speaker 2: it's the same episode where Peter.
Speaker 1: Her isn't it And that's like the.
Speaker 2: Son that they're all setting up with, So a real
Speaker 2: sview Sex and the City crossover. And the episode is
Speaker 2: called a hop skip in a week, So I don't
Speaker 2: know if you remember that. It's what they go to
Speaker 2: Brooklyn the absolute hunk. But this judge is in that.
Speaker 2: And she's also my favorite movie Prime, which started my
Speaker 2: love of roth Cos.
Speaker 5: Okay, Lisa, I have a fun fact for you, because yeah,
Speaker 5: we have to look up this director. Yeah, this episode
Speaker 5: was directed by Steve Schill and he not only directed this,
Speaker 5: but he directed the two episodes we just covered, Rooftop
Speaker 5: and Rapist Anonymous, and he's only done fourteen episodes of
Speaker 5: S few total, and he also directed a lot of Dexter.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We were actually just looking him up this weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we're like, we need to get him because he's
Speaker 2: done The Wire.
Speaker 1: He's done like three episodes to say, oh that we
Speaker 1: just covered, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we gotta get shown.
Speaker 1: Those are over multiple seasons. We're talking two thousand and
Speaker 1: two to twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew it was a great director.
Speaker 2: That shot is like so fucking good. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: know now, so we're in the core. This is like
Speaker 2: the it's a it's kind of like SVU by the Numbers,
Speaker 2: Color by Numbers. Cabot wants her man. Defense attorney says,
Speaker 2: let him go. Cabot says he's rich. The other guy
Speaker 2: says objection, YadA, YadA, Bail said it a million. Then
Speaker 2: they go have more Legal four play in the whole
Speaker 2: way more arguing about stuff and basically the defense attorneys
Speaker 2: trying to throw away a bunch of evidence. Another classic
Speaker 2: judge moment. This is a judge that's been in eighteen
Speaker 2: episodes of SVU. Our mustache man Harvey Atkin is the
Speaker 2: actor's name, and it's Judge Allen Rendoir.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: So basically, the confession is out since he did ask
Speaker 2: for a lawyer but didn't get one because Stabler wanted
Speaker 2: to play games and that, but the happens are in
Speaker 2: because it doesn't matter if you were looking for something
Speaker 2: and found something else. So I think it's crazy. The
Speaker 2: defense attorney tried to break it. It's like you were
Speaker 2: looking for a knife and it's like, yeah, and they
Speaker 2: found bloody happens. It stays yeah, nice try though, that's
Speaker 2: why you get paid the big bucks. Cabot said, I
Speaker 2: fucking warned you, Stabler who? And then Stabler's like whose side?
Speaker 2: Are you on your side? But you have to follow
Speaker 2: the rule. I just hate when they fight like this.
Speaker 2: I feel like a kid watching their parents about to
Speaker 2: get divorced or something.
Speaker 1: It's like, he did ask for a lawyer.
Speaker 2: You knew you were doing the wrong thing. Wangam says like, hey,
Speaker 2: I have a theory. There's a pattern. After the crimes.
Speaker 2: I think he goes to his mom's house in Jersey.
Speaker 2: The knife is there. We need to find the knife.
Speaker 2: The knife equals his penis. He is not disposing of it.
Speaker 2: So then Stabler calls everyone bottom feeding suits and it's
Speaker 2: like are the das making that much money? They work
Speaker 2: for the government, Like, I don't think they're that rich.
Speaker 2: So then they're begging to get a warrant to go
Speaker 2: to the Jersey house to look for this knife with
Speaker 2: the ADA and the ADA and one of the judges.
Speaker 2: They're frat bros. So they pull a favor and they
Speaker 2: go they get to search the house in Jersey and
Speaker 2: it's the you know, we already saw the mansion and
Speaker 2: I love this. Is there an official word for like
Speaker 2: when the two staircases become one where it's like they're
Speaker 2: down the side, but then.
Speaker 1: You're like an interior designer or something like a real
Speaker 1: estate agent. Let us know what that's called. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm Suna knows what. I think.
Speaker 5: It's called a combination stair that's not fun or fancies.
Speaker 5: A combination stairs, an architectural element founded traditional homes in
Speaker 5: North America where two sets of stairs merge into one
Speaker 5: at a landing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like Titanic style, Like you know this if
Speaker 2: you have a house like this, this is where everyone
Speaker 2: took prom photos, you know what I mean. Yes, it's
Speaker 2: pretty amazing. And so they're entering. There's guns, they're trying
Speaker 2: to find it. What's going on? They enter the bedroom.
Speaker 2: One of the best scenes in SVU history. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: the mom is dead, knife on the night stand in
Speaker 2: his shirtless. Everyone is naked. There's blood everywhere. He killed
Speaker 2: his fucking mom after probably fucking her. Okay, and he
Speaker 2: quotes I told her, I'm not a little boy anymore.
Speaker 2: And then that's how it ends, like a wild, bloody,
Speaker 2: naked incest ending of svo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like he's like touching her hair and
Speaker 1: it's bloody or it's like it's so creepy. It's like
Speaker 1: one of the creepiest scenes. And then it's just like
Speaker 1: fucking dick wolf. It's so nuts. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's an amazing episode, And yeah, I can't wait
Speaker 2: to hear more, Kara.
Speaker 1: The true crime is so insane. I cannot wait.
Speaker 2: Oh my, and more insane than happen Penis. Mommy, fucking
Speaker 2: this is amazing.
Speaker 1: Insane in different ways. There's just a lot of crazy
Speaker 1: elements in this next story, and I really can't wait
Speaker 1: to tell you about it. Hell yes, all right, so
Speaker 1: let's get into this. The story starts with a woman
Speaker 1: named Barbara Daily who grew up in Cambridge, Massachusetts. When
Speaker 1: she was eleven years old, her father died tragically by
Speaker 1: suicide from car like doing the carbon monoxide like car
Speaker 1: in the garage with the hose thing.
Speaker 2: Now, when I think of carbon monoxide, I just think
Speaker 2: of the midsommer.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. Well, whoever has their happy I
Speaker 1: did my husband tell me the entire plot of it
Speaker 1: because I said it was too scared I would probably
Speaker 1: never see it, So you told me the whole plot.
Speaker 1: Well then, but I just didn't know about carbon monoxide.
Speaker 2: She basically puts on a gas mask of carbon monoxide
Speaker 2: straight into her and then kills her parents with the monoxide.
Speaker 2: But like gas, it's a fucked up scene. Trixie and
Speaker 2: Katiev talked about it and on and they make it
Speaker 2: really funny, but they can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't know if I can make it
Speaker 1: as funny. But she heard her mother take the insurance money,
Speaker 1: which I didn't know that you got insurance money when
Speaker 1: you took your own life, but maybe you do, I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Arthur Miller rules. Yeah. They moved to New York City
Speaker 1: and they live at the Delmonico Hotel, which I look
Speaker 1: up and it is currently Trump Park Avenue.
Speaker 4: Boo.
Speaker 1: Barbara is a truly chaotic woman. She's like young and beautiful.
Speaker 1: Living in New York City, she just becomes a social lite.
Speaker 1: Like I don't actually know if her family had any
Speaker 1: money beyond like all we all we really can find
Speaker 1: is that she had this insurance. Her mom had this
Speaker 1: insurance money, so I don't know she comes for money,
Speaker 1: but just being gorgeous and being kind of like eccentric,
Speaker 1: she just becomes this like New York socialite. She's dating
Speaker 1: tons of rich dudes. She models briefly for Vogue and
Speaker 1: Harper's Bazaarre, so she's very beautiful. Like her mother, she
Speaker 1: also has issues with mental health and she saw a psychiatrist.
Speaker 1: And then at one point she screen tested with this
Speaker 1: nineteen forties movie star named Dana Andrews, but acting was
Speaker 1: like obviously not her not her skill, but she did
Speaker 1: become friends with another aspiring actress named Cornelia Dickie Bakeland Bacerland.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you say the l was named Backerland.
Speaker 1: I think there.
Speaker 2: Are so many vowels that look crazy.
Speaker 1: In that name. Yeah yeah. And then this is how
Speaker 1: she meets Dicky's younger brother. First of all, I don't
Speaker 1: know why Cornelia's nickname is Dickie, Like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: know where that came from. But this woman named Dickie
Speaker 1: has a younger brother named Brooks. So Brooks Bakeland is
Speaker 1: who Barbara meets and they fall in love or whatever.
Speaker 1: And now Dickie Bakeland and Brooks. Bakland are the grandchildren
Speaker 1: of Leo Bakeland, who is the inventor of Bacolte, which
Speaker 1: is moldable plastic. And Lisa, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: remember this, but earlier in the pandemic, when we were
Speaker 1: all jonesing for activities or anything to do, we did
Speaker 1: trivia with our friend Julia and our friend Meghan, and
Speaker 1: Julia got a question right about bacolte. I'd never heard
Speaker 1: of it, but she's like, it's bake alite, and I
Speaker 1: was like, okay. And so apparently that reminds me of
Speaker 1: her now when I hear about it. So it's this
Speaker 1: multiple plastic. You could use it to make phones, radio
Speaker 1: is basically everything. So this man, Leo Bakelund, was rich
Speaker 1: as hell, and then all of his generations after him
Speaker 1: just had all this inherited wealth from him. So Brooks
Speaker 1: is like this lazy ass rich kid. One article I
Speaker 1: read talked about them as a couple, Brooks and Barbara,
Speaker 1: and was like he was a writer who never wrote.
Speaker 1: She was a painter who could not paint. Like they
Speaker 1: imagine themselves as these very like interesting artists, and like
Speaker 1: they actually did not produce anything and I feel like
Speaker 1: I know a lot of rich people that are like this.
Speaker 1: Barbara tells Brooks that she is pregnant, which she is not,
Speaker 1: and they get married. So that's the kind of life
Speaker 1: she's living, is false pregnancies two lore men into marriage,
Speaker 1: so they get a quickie marriage in California. Then they
Speaker 1: live on the Upper East Side in a fancy apartment.
Speaker 1: They have epic dinner parties with guests like Greta Garbo
Speaker 1: Tennessee Williams. They're like in society in New York, Okay.
Speaker 1: Barbara earns a reputation for being unstable and prone to
Speaker 1: root outbursts, and she suffers from bouts of severe depression.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sort of getting the Kristin Johnson character
Speaker 1: from New York is dead and falling out the window.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of getting like that sex and the city
Speaker 1: vibe from this woman. Like she's just like acting out
Speaker 1: at parties and seems like the kind of woman that's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll start a fight with her husband in
Speaker 1: the middle of a restaurant or something and throw a
Speaker 1: glass of water. She definitely would be on The Housewives
Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties or sixties. This bitch is a
Speaker 1: real housewife of New York for sure. She drank heavily,
Speaker 1: and both her and Brooks had constant affairs. They were
Speaker 1: both I mean, like apparently she would get very set
Speaker 1: off by his affairs, but she was also having affairs.
Speaker 1: So obviously, what do you do when you're living this
Speaker 1: chaotic lifestyle. You bring a child into the world. She
Speaker 1: and Brooks had a son named Antony in nineteen forty six,
Speaker 1: so they live in New York. But then when Antony
Speaker 1: is eight, the family really starts like living like full
Speaker 1: cartoon characters, Like they keep their New York City place,
Speaker 1: but they bounce around Europe, like renting villas and houses
Speaker 1: in life in Paris, Italy, Zermatt, cap Duntee, but like
Speaker 1: these places that are hard to pronounce. They're just bouncing
Speaker 1: all around and like living this lifestyle of luxury, and
Speaker 1: Barbara and Brooks just kind of like live the life
Speaker 1: they entertain. They have affairs. Whatever money is poison, Really
Speaker 1: being rich is poison, Okay. So at one point Brooks
Speaker 1: tried to leave Barbara for a younger woman, but she
Speaker 1: Barbara attempted suicide and he broke the relationship off with
Speaker 1: the other woman, and she does this multiple times. She
Speaker 1: constantly like sort of plays the I will attempt suicide card,
Speaker 1: and she does do that many times. So something I
Speaker 1: read said that Barbara would like smother Tony with attention
Speaker 1: and then ship them off to boarding schools like all
Speaker 1: over Europe. So I think there was like weird. They
Speaker 1: both thought that Tony was going to be this really
Speaker 1: really outstanding person and like be very talented, and he
Speaker 1: kind of wasn't, and I don't know if that affected
Speaker 1: their relationships with him. But in nineteen sixty seven, when
Speaker 1: Tony was twenty, the family was based in Switzerland and
Speaker 1: Antony was at a Spanish resort of Kadoc or Sadac.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you say this. It becomes with
Speaker 1: a C, but I think it's Kadoc. He meets Jake Cooper,
Speaker 1: an Australian man and who introduces Antony to hallucinogenic drugs
Speaker 1: and the two start an affair. So Antony is gay
Speaker 1: and Barbara is not okay with that. She drives to
Speaker 1: Spain to bring Antony back to Switzerland, but at the
Speaker 1: border he doesn't have his passport. She obviously makes a
Speaker 1: huge scene because she's that girl and her and her
Speaker 1: son are both arrested and put in jail. So like,
Speaker 1: everything is so bonkers with these people. The following year,
Speaker 1: apparently she has a little bit more accepted his relationship
Speaker 1: with Jake, but is still pushing him to like explore
Speaker 1: relationships with women. And he had brought home a French
Speaker 1: girl named Sylvie for the weekend, and so she's kind
Speaker 1: of pushing that relationship, like, oh, like, let's get with Sylvie.
Speaker 1: Plot twist, Sylvie starts having an affair with her husband
Speaker 1: Brooks okay this time. When Barbara finds out about it,
Speaker 1: she also attempts suicide again, but this time Brooks is like,
Speaker 1: I'm done with this and files for divorce and he
Speaker 1: marries Sylvie and they have a child and then they
Speaker 1: eventually get divorced too. This is just a fun little tidbit.
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty nine, Barbera meets pop art curator and
Speaker 1: director Samuel Adams Green and she has an affair with him,
Speaker 1: and he's like friends with Andy Warhol. He's like huge
Speaker 1: and like the pop art scene, and he breaks it
Speaker 1: off after six weeks, but Barbara's fully obsessed with him,
Speaker 1: and allegedly she walked across Central Park in the snow, barefoot,
Speaker 1: wearing only a Lynx fur coat, and to demand to
Speaker 1: be let into his apartment. I just think that's iconic,
Speaker 1: rich lady. Crazy, it is, but it's like you could
Speaker 1: put on shoes. I know, I know. But now let's
Speaker 1: get back to Tony. So, as a young man, Anthony
Speaker 1: displayed signs of schizophrenia with paranoid tendencies, and he was
Speaker 1: eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia, but at first his father refused
Speaker 1: to allow him to be treated by psychiatrists because the
Speaker 1: father thought that psychiatry was professionally a moral So the
Speaker 1: father just like doesn't agree with psychiatry. He's a real stabler.
Speaker 1: So now flash forward to the summer from his youth
Speaker 1: to the summer of nineteen sixty eight. Right after his parents' divorce,
Speaker 1: Barbara and Tony become extremely clingy and codependent, people say,
Speaker 1: and Barbara, in an attempt to quote unquote fix her
Speaker 1: son's homosexuality, starts hiring sex workers to sleep with him.
Speaker 1: When that doesn't work, it is believed that Barbara raped Tony.
Speaker 1: So at this point, yeah, he's twenty years old and
Speaker 1: his mother is having sex with him to try to
Speaker 1: fix his homosexuality. In her words, there's no fixing homosexuality
Speaker 1: because it is not a problem. In July of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two, okay, so this is four years later, he
Speaker 1: tried to throw his mother into traffic in London outside
Speaker 1: of her penthouse, but literally didn't succeed because he wasn't
Speaker 1: strong enough. And then he was arrested for attempted murder
Speaker 1: for that, but his mom didn't press charges, okay, And
Speaker 1: then he was admitted to a private's like Yactric Hospital,
Speaker 1: but released. And after he started seeing a psychiatrist while
Speaker 1: living at home with his mother, and the psychiatrist warned Barbara, quote,
Speaker 1: your son is going to kill you. I think you're
Speaker 1: at grave risk, and she responded, I don't, so she
Speaker 1: thought he's not capable murder. She waved him off. Two
Speaker 1: weeks after the psychiatrist had that conversation with her. On
Speaker 1: November seventeenth of nineteen seventy two, Antony, aged twenty five,
Speaker 1: murdered his fifty one year old mother by stabbing her
Speaker 1: with a kitchen knife, killing her almost instantly. So similar
Speaker 1: to the episode, I don't think he had a full
Speaker 1: pegaristic problem, but you know, when the police arrived. This
Speaker 1: is bizarre. Antony was on the phone ordering Chinese food
Speaker 1: like nothing ever happened, like completely unfazed. I mean, murder
Speaker 1: is exhausting.
Speaker 2: I understand wanting some rice after you want some General
Speaker 2: So's chicken right after you kill your mom.
Speaker 4: For sure.
Speaker 1: Anthony was institutionalized at England's high security psychiatric hospital called
Speaker 1: Broadmore until nineteen eighty when his influential friends and family
Speaker 1: like fought for his release. So he did eight years
Speaker 1: in a psych hospital and then was released. This story
Speaker 1: does not stop. After he gets released from Broadmoor. He
Speaker 1: immediately he's thirty three years old, now, Anthony, he immediately
Speaker 1: flies to New York City to stay way way way,
Speaker 1: way way. So he only served eight years, eight years
Speaker 1: because he got a psychiatric he probably got sent you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it happened in England, so I
Speaker 1: think their law system is a little different. But he
Speaker 1: obviously got some kind of reason of insanity defense was
Speaker 1: put in a hospital, and then like the hospital released
Speaker 1: him because his influential friends and family were like lobbying
Speaker 1: for him. So yeah, it is kind of nuts that
Speaker 1: he would just be let out. Because here's what happens. Next,
Speaker 1: he flies directly to New York City to stay with
Speaker 1: his eighty seven year old maternal grandmother. So his mother's
Speaker 1: mother named Ninie Daily or it's Ni Ni Niani nine nine.
Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, but isn't she mad that this
Speaker 2: guy killed her daughter? I mean, she's probably like he's sick.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So he apparently builds a sort of
Speaker 1: creepy shrine to his dead mother and mumbled satanic masses
Speaker 1: over her ashes. That's where what I read in one place,
Speaker 1: So who knows. And then six days after his release,
Speaker 1: he attacked his grandmother with a kitchen knife, stabbing her
Speaker 1: eight times and breaking several of her bones because apparently
Speaker 1: she was nagging him quote unquote a surprise twist, she
Speaker 1: did survive. He was arrested by the NYPD in charge
Speaker 1: with attempted murder and sent to Rikers. He was in
Speaker 1: Rikers for eight months of assessment by their psychiatric people.
Speaker 1: He was expecting to be released on bail on March
Speaker 1: twentieth of nineteen eighty one. So he goes to court
Speaker 1: expecting to be let out on bail, and the judge
Speaker 1: sort of like postpone in the case a little bit
Speaker 1: because his medical records had not been transferred from the
Speaker 1: UK yet. It's nineteen eighty one. There's no email, maybe
Speaker 1: there's faxing, but they don't have the medical records yet.
Speaker 1: So Anthony returns to his cell at three point thirty
Speaker 1: on that same day, and thirty minutes later he's found
Speaker 1: dead by suffocating from a plastic bag. So he literally
Speaker 1: was just like enraged that his trial was delayed and
Speaker 1: killed himself by a plastic bag, which is that's sheer determination,
Speaker 1: I feel like. And that is the end of that story.
Speaker 1: A book was published called Savage Grace, The True Story
Speaker 1: of Fatal Relations in a rich and famous American Family,
Speaker 1: and then in two thousand and seven there was a
Speaker 1: movie called Savage Grace with Julian Moore playing Barbara and
Speaker 1: Eddie Redmain playing Anthony, and I would watch it. Never
Speaker 1: heard of it. I would love to watch it. This
Speaker 1: is a wild case. Yeah, you prefaced it by really
Speaker 1: is wild. And in the movie, Hugh Dancy, who is
Speaker 1: married to Claire Danes, if I'm not mistaken, plays the
Speaker 1: art guy, the pop art guy that she had the
Speaker 1: affair with, and in the movie they have a threesome
Speaker 1: the mother, the son, and him, and he released a
Speaker 1: statement when the movie came out being like that absolutely
Speaker 1: didn't happen. And he also said that he didn't think
Speaker 1: that Barbara had sex with her son or excuse me,
Speaker 1: raped her son, because he thought that she just liked
Speaker 1: to shock people. But everyone else seems to think this
Speaker 1: is what happened. Damn, pretty wild. Rich people have a
Speaker 1: lot of problems.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see who our guest is because
Speaker 2: this was a great episode. Thanks Kara for taking us
Speaker 2: through this wild crime.
Speaker 1: You're welcome.
Speaker 2: That was really interesting. I'd never even heard about this
Speaker 2: at all, and so I'm really.
Speaker 1: Well, this was like written down. This was not on
Speaker 1: any lists as being based on anything. And then a
Speaker 1: listener was like, I'm pretty sure you guys have to
Speaker 1: do peek. I'm pretty sure it's based on the bakelends.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it really sounds like it has to
Speaker 1: be like even lightly based, you know.
Speaker 2: Now I feel very much like Bill Hayter's character Stefan,
Speaker 2: where I'm like this this murder has everything.
Speaker 1: We had, our grandmother, money, ear app you know, pushing
Speaker 1: and pushing your mom into traffic in London.
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol. It's like a very glamorous crime but creep creep,
Speaker 2: creep creepy for sure.
Speaker 1: All Right, I am beyond thrilled for our next guest.
Speaker 1: He is an Emmy winning actor. You've seen him on
Speaker 1: Er Melrose Place, twenty four, Pretty Little Liar, Supergirl, and
Speaker 1: he's also an enormous television director. He's directed tons of shows. Uh, Supergirl,
Speaker 1: what's the one? My husband likes? The flash Bones, Life
Speaker 1: and Pieces. But you guys know him as Jason Mayberry.
Speaker 1: On this week's episode, please welcome Chadlow.
Speaker 2: We're beyond This is one of the most requested episodes
Speaker 2: we've gotten from the listeners. I'm one of the favorites.
Speaker 2: We can't believe we're talking to you. And then I
Speaker 2: don't want to bury the lead. We got to just
Speaker 2: talk at the blood scene. I'm right off the top
Speaker 2: or she.
Speaker 1: Was like, we got to just dive in with how
Speaker 1: this is like one of the craziest episode endings of
Speaker 1: all time, just like you in bed with your mom
Speaker 1: covered in blood, Like.
Speaker 4: Oh, there's a whole story behind that.
Speaker 1: Oh oh yes.
Speaker 6: But first off, you guys are hilarious and I love
Speaker 6: that you're doing this.
Speaker 4: This is this is such a great podcast. It's so fun.
Speaker 6: I've been down you I've been I've been listening and
Speaker 6: it must I mean, you know, there's how many eighteen
Speaker 6: years of episodes.
Speaker 1: To twenty two seasons? They're a twenty two second season.
Speaker 6: Right, that's right. Yeah, it's like, isn't this the record?
Speaker 6: Is this the record for dramas series for longest running?
Speaker 1: I think for longest running, like yeah, live actions. I
Speaker 1: know the Simpsons and stuff has been on longer, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: for it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 4: The Simpsons has been on for seventy eight years.
Speaker 2: I'm a Simpsons girl. Look, I have a Simpsons tarot
Speaker 2: deck right here.
Speaker 6: They're the best, you know. I did an episode of Bones.
Speaker 6: I digress. I know this isn't the Bones podcast, but
Speaker 6: you guys will add it stuff out right that you
Speaker 6: don't like.
Speaker 1: If this Bone scoop is good, we'll leave it now.
Speaker 5: It was.
Speaker 6: I did an episode where we had it was when
Speaker 6: they were celebrating I think the thirtieth season or twentieth
Speaker 6: fifth season of the Simpsons, and they had all of
Speaker 6: the Fox programming had some Simpson's reference in it. So
Speaker 6: in Bones we had like a little East egg. They
Speaker 6: call it where if you look closer, you could see
Speaker 6: Homer Simpson's X ray of his skull and it was empty.
Speaker 6: Obviously there's no brain. And then I had I had
Speaker 6: an episode where Dan who plays Homer, the voice of Homer.
Speaker 6: Dan's last name.
Speaker 2: Is Castella or castellatas something like that.
Speaker 4: He played a guest star.
Speaker 6: He played a cop on an episode of Bones, and
Speaker 6: it was amazing because you would ever know he was
Speaker 6: the voice of Homer Simpson at all. And he was
Speaker 6: very quiet, and we were all like, you know, who's
Speaker 6: going to ask him to do Homer's voice?
Speaker 4: Who's going to do it?
Speaker 6: And we were told, you know, he doesn't. Really, It's like,
Speaker 6: I'm sure he gets asked that every single day. So finally,
Speaker 6: at the end of the of the shoot, I think
Speaker 6: our first assistant director finally went out to him and
Speaker 6: just slyly said something like donuts, what don't they do?
Speaker 4: That was my worst That was not Homer. That was
Speaker 4: a really bad Homer.
Speaker 6: But anyway, Dan kind of smiled and laughed and I
Speaker 6: forget what he said, but it was a perfect Homer
Speaker 6: Simpson voice, and it was like such a gift to
Speaker 6: hear that.
Speaker 4: It was so cool, I'm a human being. It was
Speaker 4: like it was it was it was Homer in the flesh.
Speaker 6: It was pretty incredible, And I thought, how about a
Speaker 6: great superpower to like go to Starbucks and order a
Speaker 6: drink in the voice of Homer Simpson. That must be fun,
Speaker 6: like a great party trick to have. But Peek, if
Speaker 6: I'm not mistaken, is the is the title of the
Speaker 6: of the episode that we're discussing currently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what's the story?
Speaker 6: Well, I had to I did not know what peak
Speaker 6: arism was was until I was cast in this role
Speaker 6: and I wanted to do some research. And the first
Speaker 6: question I had was, okay, so what is peakarism? And
Speaker 6: the way it was explained to me was like a
Speaker 6: sexual obsession with needles and like puncturing stabbing, And I
Speaker 6: was like, okay, that's enough. I don't even know any
Speaker 6: more than that this is this is more bizarre and
Speaker 6: twisted than I then than it even is on the page.
Speaker 6: But the end scene was interesting because we actually reshot
Speaker 6: that ending.
Speaker 4: Really Yeah, so as the.
Speaker 6: Story goes, I can't divulge all of it because there's
Speaker 6: a really great story behind the story, which I'm grad
Speaker 6: I would get in big trouble if I were to
Speaker 6: tell I know, I'm sorry to tease like that, but
Speaker 6: what what what ended up happening was the end of
Speaker 6: the episode was scripted that and if I'm not mistaken
Speaker 6: the characters, my character's name was Jason A. Berry, I
Speaker 6: believe the end of the episode. This is the spoiler alert.
Speaker 6: If you haven't seen the episode.
Speaker 1: No, they mostly have listened. If they're listening to this
Speaker 1: far into our podcasts.
Speaker 6: Yes, if they're listening here, they've seen the episode. So I, Uh,
Speaker 6: Jason ends up and I and I don't even want
Speaker 6: to say I because it's so bizarre and dark and
Speaker 6: so twisted. Jason me, the actor playing Jason, ends up
Speaker 6: having post coital with his dead mother in a bed.
Speaker 4: Covered in her blood.
Speaker 6: Uh, And it was scripted that I the character was
Speaker 6: was you know, naked basically, but you know it's network television,
Speaker 6: so that naked means you know, you're going to have
Speaker 6: your shirt off. And but there was a long discussion
Speaker 6: on the day about whether or not we would be
Speaker 6: able to get that.
Speaker 4: By standards and practices for you.
Speaker 6: Know, the judge, the judge and jury of what is
Speaker 6: appropriate and acceptable right for the audience I don't know
Speaker 6: who they are, but we were concerned earned that if
Speaker 6: we actually filmed it with me being, you know, semi
Speaker 6: clad with my shirt off, whether or not it would
Speaker 6: actually be able to air. So the choice was made
Speaker 6: to put me in a white T shirt on the day,
Speaker 6: which was not as scripted, and so put me in
Speaker 6: a white T shirt. And there I was laying in
Speaker 6: bed with Margo Kidder, who played I mean I mean
Speaker 6: an Icon, and they are, you know, putting all the
Speaker 6: fake blood all over me, and I'm trying to psych
Speaker 6: myself up for this really dark moment. And we shot
Speaker 6: it and I remember Marishka Hargitate kind of and and
Speaker 6: Chris Maloney both kind of looking at me like wow,
Speaker 6: that was that was really dark and really bizarre, but
Speaker 6: we love it.
Speaker 4: And so I was feeling.
Speaker 6: Really really good about it, and then finished the episode.
Speaker 6: And you know what was interesting is I was also
Speaker 6: at the same time I got to do I was
Speaker 6: in a movie called Unfaithful with Richard Gear and Diane Lane,
Speaker 6: and so I started shooting and I was a small
Speaker 6: role in that movie, but I started shooting that movie.
Speaker 6: I did one scene in that movie, and then like
Speaker 6: a month later, I did this episode of Lawn or
Speaker 6: SVU finished it, went back and did a little bit
Speaker 6: more work on.
Speaker 4: Unfaithful.
Speaker 6: About three months later, I think I got a call
Speaker 6: and I was still working on un Faithful, which shows
Speaker 6: you the difference between how network television and a film
Speaker 6: is done. Like network television you get like eight to
Speaker 6: ten days to film an episode, and this feature film
Speaker 6: took like four months.
Speaker 4: It was so crazy.
Speaker 6: And they called me and said, listen, you need are
Speaker 6: you available? Are you in New York? And I was
Speaker 6: living in New York City at the time, said are
Speaker 6: you available? They want to reshoot something. I wasn't even
Speaker 6: sure what on the SVU episode that you did. And
Speaker 6: I thought, like, I love acting and I'm always excited
Speaker 6: anytime I have the opportunity to get to act.
Speaker 4: So I was like, yeah, I'm available, well and I'm excited.
Speaker 6: I didn't know yet what it was we were going
Speaker 6: to be reshooting, and so you know, there we are,
Speaker 6: like a week later in this New New Jersey mansion
Speaker 6: where we had shot the ending, and I'm told, you know,
Speaker 6: we have to.
Speaker 4: Reshoot the ending. I'm thinking, why are we reshooting ending?
Speaker 6: It was everybody seemed so happy with how twisted and
Speaker 6: dark it was, and I wasn't really sure I wanted
Speaker 6: to go back to that place emotionally as an actor,
Speaker 6: because it's really it's really uncomfortable if you if you
Speaker 6: really go there, it's really uncomfortable. And I was told
Speaker 6: that there was a very heated conversation. This is all
Speaker 6: I will say. There was apparently a very heated conversation
Speaker 6: that happened behind the scenes about the validity of the
Speaker 6: character having had sex and killing his mother wearing a
Speaker 6: T shirt.
Speaker 1: So I met Dick Wolf himself was like, it would
Speaker 1: never happen.
Speaker 4: You know, we need to shoot no names.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure of who or how or when this
Speaker 6: conversation went down.
Speaker 1: Wow, So what we see is like months later, you
Speaker 1: just hopping back into this wild character.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 6: Months months later, and I'm thinking, wow, I don't. And
Speaker 6: it's always hard when you feel good about you know.
Speaker 6: One of the hard things when you're an actor is
Speaker 6: when you go into audition for something and you feel
Speaker 6: really good, like you nailed it, and then lo and behold.
Speaker 6: You know, there's rare opportunities you actually get the job,
Speaker 6: and then that scene you audition for comes up and
Speaker 6: you have to actually perform that scene, you never feel
Speaker 6: like you did it as well as you did in
Speaker 6: the audition ever, Right, So I felt that way about this.
Speaker 6: I felt like this ending wasn't as good. I wasn't
Speaker 6: as good an actor in this ending, and I felt
Speaker 6: like it just didn't have the same kind of darkness
Speaker 6: and I don't and I just didn't feel like I
Speaker 6: was in it as much as I had been.
Speaker 4: But I have to say when I saw it, I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't feel that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, like, having watched it, it's
Speaker 1: dark as hell. And I can't imagine what your original
Speaker 1: performance in the T shirt was like, because like I
Speaker 1: always remember, like having seen this episode like multiple times
Speaker 1: over the years, I just like always remember that last
Speaker 1: scene with you being like I'm a big boy now
Speaker 1: I'm not a little boy anymore or whatever, and it's
Speaker 1: like so scary.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the other uncomfortable scenes is when you're
Speaker 2: in the interrogation and you start putting your fingers in
Speaker 2: your mouth.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that.
Speaker 2: Was that a directorial decision or was that a personal decision?
Speaker 1: You have this like I'm a bad boy monologue thing.
Speaker 6: Yes, So I remember it very well, you know, those
Speaker 6: opportunities are so rare as an actor to get to
Speaker 6: play something that's so rich, and I mean, I love
Speaker 6: that stuff. I love getting to play characters like this.
Speaker 6: In fact, this is this character is one of my
Speaker 6: favorite characters I've ever had the chance to play. He
Speaker 6: was so complicated and so bizarre and and you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not really a method actor, because method
Speaker 6: has been It's not as it's misunderstood. Really, I think method,
Speaker 6: but at least kind of sense memory and trying to
Speaker 6: bring things up from your personal life that you can
Speaker 6: apply to the scene is some of the work that
Speaker 6: I do. So you know, what I related to in
Speaker 6: that moment was was just wanting that feeling that we
Speaker 6: all have, I think at some point in our lives
Speaker 6: where we feel like we've really grown up, you know,
Speaker 6: and we feel like.
Speaker 4: We can stand on our own two feet. And this
Speaker 4: is now, this is.
Speaker 6: Twisted because it was really strange circumstances, But I thought,
Speaker 6: you know, in my own personal life, I feel like
Speaker 6: I'm not a little boy anymore. I feel like I'm
Speaker 6: a man now, you know, I'm I believe I was married.
Speaker 6: At the time I was married, I think it was
Speaker 6: twenty seven. It was like twenty nine, thirty years old,
Speaker 6: and I thought, you know, I'm I'm a grown up now.
Speaker 4: And you have to.
Speaker 6: Everybody has to break free from their childhood, right, break
Speaker 6: free from their parents, and have that moment where they
Speaker 6: really feel like they're autonomous. And so I thought, you know,
Speaker 6: I'm going to go to that place where I feel
Speaker 6: like in my life I've been underestimated or people have
Speaker 6: seen me as a little boy, or have understood me
Speaker 6: to me as an actor, or have just thought that
Speaker 6: I was lightweight, or you know this blonde hair, blue
Speaker 6: eyed guy from Malibu, which I am blonde hair, I
Speaker 6: have green eyes, and I'm actually I'm actually from Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker 6: But you know that doesn't make as good press, I think.
Speaker 6: So I thought, I'm going to just put all that
Speaker 6: anger and all that anks into this, and I'm going
Speaker 6: to just see what happens. And for days before this,
Speaker 6: I felt this kind of low grade nausea and like
Speaker 6: I was had that like a flu coming on, and
Speaker 6: I knew what it was because this happens often, and
Speaker 6: it still does. If I have a really tough scene
Speaker 6: to do, I just I feel it's anxiety, it's nerves,
Speaker 6: it's all that stuff, and it's it's the stuff you need. Frankly,
Speaker 6: I think you just have to learn how to channel it.
Speaker 6: And so I remember, as we were on the set
Speaker 6: and we're getting ready to shoot this, the directors and
Speaker 6: a wonderful British director named Steve Shill, I said, I said, listen,
Speaker 6: I don't know if.
Speaker 4: I have more than one of these in me. And
Speaker 4: he's like, okay, twelve, what do you mean?
Speaker 6: I said, I said, I don't really know, but I'm
Speaker 6: going to commit to whatever comes up, and so I
Speaker 6: just want to let you know that I may only
Speaker 6: have one in me. And he's like kind of thinking, well,
Speaker 6: this is either this actor's being extraordinarily difficult or he's
Speaker 6: going to go to some very dark place. And I
Speaker 6: think it was kind of a combination of both, really,
Speaker 6: And I remember sitting with the camera department. I didn't
Speaker 6: you know, usually when you're setting up a scene, you
Speaker 6: have second team, which are the stand ins that will
Speaker 6: sit and stand there while they focus the lights and
Speaker 6: make sure the lighting is right and make sure all
Speaker 6: the focus marks are proper. And I just thought, you know,
Speaker 6: I don't want anybody else in here. I want to
Speaker 6: do this myself because I want to make sure it's right.
Speaker 6: So I kept going through the motions of what I
Speaker 6: would do technically, and then they said action, and I
Speaker 6: remember feeling like I was going to get sick. I
Speaker 6: remember feeling like I'm either I may throw up here
Speaker 6: and that would be really awkward and awful, and we'd
Speaker 6: have to cut and that would be really embarrassing. And
Speaker 6: I remember feeling like I don't want to do this.
Speaker 6: They don't want to do this, They don't want to
Speaker 6: do this is really uncomfortable. And then I think something
Speaker 6: happened just emotionally where I went, you know what, you said,
Speaker 6: you'd do it once. Let's just go once. And then
Speaker 6: I think, out of nowhere, my fingers up in my mouth,
Speaker 6: and I was embarrassed, and I was like kind of
Speaker 6: like out of body experience watching myself doing this, going
Speaker 6: like this is really humiliating and embarrassing.
Speaker 4: And I can't believe you're doing this.
Speaker 6: And then I'm also like in the scene, going yeah,
Speaker 6: this feels right, this feels like.
Speaker 1: No great, and think can we do that one take?
Speaker 6: And so we got done and I'm crying and I'm
Speaker 6: ready to really like I just I'm really really ready
Speaker 6: to move.
Speaker 4: On from that place.
Speaker 6: And I looked at him at the I looked right
Speaker 6: away to the focus polar and I said, was that
Speaker 6: in focus? That was my biggest story? And he said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: that was in focus. And the director came in kind
Speaker 6: of looked at me and went okay, And I said,
Speaker 6: I said it was in focus. I really don't think
Speaker 6: I want to do that or can do that again,
Speaker 6: and he said and I knew he was nervous. And
Speaker 6: now it's funny because now I direct primarily, that's what
Speaker 6: I do primarily, So like if an actor were to
Speaker 6: say that to me, I would be very uncomfortable, because
Speaker 6: you really want more than one.
Speaker 1: Take right just for safety. I mean, even if you
Speaker 1: nail it, yeah, if.
Speaker 6: You nail it, because you also want to be able
Speaker 6: to build a performance.
Speaker 4: And I didn't. I just knew I could do something again,
Speaker 4: but I wouldn't do that again.
Speaker 6: And I felt at that point like all this build
Speaker 6: up and these you know, days and days of this
Speaker 6: anxiety and this low grade nausea what kind of immediately
Speaker 6: went away, Like I purged it all in that moment,
Speaker 6: and I thought, I just don't want to do this again.
Speaker 6: So I think the director looked around and looked at
Speaker 6: Marishka or not because Muska was in the scene. I
Speaker 6: don't believe it was Chris Maloney and Chris. Chris was like, ah,
Speaker 6: I think we got it. I was like, I think too,
Speaker 6: and so we we did one take and that's it.
Speaker 2: That is.
Speaker 1: I think it's such an interesting episode because they find
Speaker 1: you close to the beginning. It's not like there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of red herrings, and then you come in at
Speaker 1: the end as the person that did it. They find
Speaker 1: you at the beginning, and then there's this whole trying
Speaker 1: to draw your character out because you want to be
Speaker 1: a cop to and like a lot of sort of
Speaker 1: Stabler's character kind of messing with you. But then also
Speaker 1: you're like you're this like murderer, but you're also a victim,
Speaker 1: like you've been molested by your mother for god knows
Speaker 1: how long, So you really are like straddling this line
Speaker 1: of like innocent and creepy in your character. Like I
Speaker 1: think when you watch it, we're like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's this guy. I mean, there is something creepy
Speaker 1: about him, but like until we find out that it's
Speaker 1: you don't know, yeah, he.
Speaker 6: Is some he is somewhat sympathetic I think in the end,
Speaker 6: which is which is really interesting.
Speaker 4: I thought that was a really interesting turn.
Speaker 6: And you know, they say, like I've heard other actors
Speaker 6: say that, you know, you really can't judge your character
Speaker 6: that you're going to play like. You have to kind
Speaker 6: of try to work to understand them, no matter how
Speaker 6: evil they are. I mean, even if you're playing like,
Speaker 6: you know, like Jeffrey Dahmer or some awful, you know, monster,
Speaker 6: you still would have to find some part in inside
Speaker 6: of you to understand that person who they are and
Speaker 6: why they behave the way that they did. And so
Speaker 6: I think the fact that this character was so wounded
Speaker 6: helped in a way because there was I mean for
Speaker 6: me as the actor, I could kind of kind of
Speaker 6: understand why he was so damaged and why he behaved
Speaker 6: in the way that he did, because, as you said,
Speaker 6: it's really true, he was also a victim himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to go back to weird things that you
Speaker 2: had to do in this episode, but I was wondering
Speaker 2: what it's like to act in front of a mirror
Speaker 2: in that interrogation scene, and you were like screaming at
Speaker 2: the mirror. Is that weird to do looking at yourself
Speaker 2: and having well.
Speaker 1: So do it.
Speaker 4: That's a good question.
Speaker 6: And so now not only it was it out of
Speaker 6: body experience. It was like I was watching myself from
Speaker 6: out of my body, but then I was also watching
Speaker 6: myself in a.
Speaker 4: Mirror, in a mirror.
Speaker 6: So thank god actors are somewhat narcissistic and we and
Speaker 6: we enjoy this kind of re Yes, I've always talked
Speaker 6: to other friends who are actors who like, you know,
Speaker 6: like if you're really sad in your day and you're like,
Speaker 6: you know, something happens and you're crying, You're.
Speaker 4: Like, run to the mirror because you want to see
Speaker 4: what it looks like when you cry. Like, yeah, I
Speaker 4: could really, you.
Speaker 6: Know, this is really sad. This is what I look
Speaker 6: like when I'm sad. It's this is why actors are
Speaker 6: so freaking crazy. That's why we're all a little touched
Speaker 6: because we're working in this headspace.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I remember that was I think that was.
Speaker 6: Helpful looking in the mirror in a way because I think,
Speaker 6: as I recall, and I know, like looking yourself in
Speaker 6: the mirror, like truly looking yourself in your in the mirror,
Speaker 6: can be can bring a lot of stuff up as
Speaker 6: an exercise. I know that it can be uncomfortable. It
Speaker 6: can bring up insecurities, It can bring up self worth
Speaker 6: issues and shame issues, and it can also in a
Speaker 6: weird way if you believe this, and I happen to
Speaker 6: believe it, if you look deep enough, you can kind
Speaker 6: of see past the person, into the soul and into
Speaker 6: into the essence.
Speaker 4: Of who of your being.
Speaker 6: And now I'm I'm over analyzing all this and making
Speaker 6: it all way to airy fairy. But it was in
Speaker 6: that moment I think kind of everything disappeared for me
Speaker 6: and I kind of was able to check in with
Speaker 6: that kind of inner child, if you will. And really
Speaker 6: that scene, that scene is about killing the inner child,
Speaker 6: right if you think about it, and about announcing that
Speaker 6: to this detective in that moment. And also it's a confession,
Speaker 6: right as I remember, this scene was a confession. Whether
Speaker 6: it was whether it was implicit or not, my memory
Speaker 6: of it was, at least the way I played it
Speaker 6: was that was his moment of showing some another human
Speaker 6: being his vulnerability. And that's the other thing too. As
Speaker 6: an actor, like it's really hard to act in a
Speaker 6: scene alone but I get very nervous when I act.
Speaker 6: I get very very nervous when I audition. It's a problem.
Speaker 6: I don't enjoy it. And the only thing that ever
Speaker 6: seems to calm my nerves is to connect with another
Speaker 6: human being and to know that I'm not alone in
Speaker 6: that moment, And so I remember connecting with myself in
Speaker 6: a way, but then also being able to turn and
Speaker 6: look at Chris and feeling knowing what a great actor
Speaker 6: Chris Maloney is and how how strong he wasn't that
Speaker 6: in that show, and what a great actor he's always been.
Speaker 6: In fact, Chris and I were in acting class together.
Speaker 6: It's another world secret. Really Yeah, I felt really safe
Speaker 6: with Chris in that moment, like I could kind of
Speaker 6: do something really risky, and it kind of, you know,
Speaker 6: like it's it's I guess it is getting out of
Speaker 6: yourself in a way, like connecting with another person. Like
Speaker 6: public speaking is something that I think most people struggle with.
Speaker 6: Most people feel really really uneasy in public speaking, and
Speaker 6: it's and I have had the opportunity to do some
Speaker 6: speeches and speak publicly a few times, and I've always
Speaker 6: found the best way for me to settle my nerves
Speaker 6: and allow my mind to work and stay on script
Speaker 6: or get the message out that I'm trying to deliver
Speaker 6: is to look at one person in the room. You know,
Speaker 6: it's really connect with one person and there's something about
Speaker 6: that that's that can be very, very comforting.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm so glad Stabler was able to provide.
Speaker 4: That for you. Stabler.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's really And I.
Speaker 2: Love that you knew each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this is like pre like when you guys
Speaker 1: were starting out, you were in acting class together. I
Speaker 1: love that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were, in fact I knew I knew Marishka
Speaker 6: and I were friends, we had been we met when
Speaker 6: we were both on ER together.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. We're also going to ask if you knew
Speaker 1: Neil Bear for me?
Speaker 6: Are you know I knew Neil from Er? I did, ye,
Speaker 6: Neil Bear. I have to let me just say how
Speaker 6: much I loved Neil Bear. He is one of the kindest.
Speaker 6: First of all, he's one of the smartest people I've
Speaker 6: ever met. I mean, not only is he this genius writer,
Speaker 6: but he's also you know, a doctor who was at
Speaker 6: Harvard Medical School. Yeah, he was incredibly super smart, down
Speaker 6: to earth, kind, supportive, and so I knew Neil from
Speaker 6: R and I think that might be how this role
Speaker 6: came to be for me on on SVU was I think,
Speaker 6: as I remember, I you know what, Actually, I'm just
Speaker 6: remembering this now. I was at a Golden Globes thing
Speaker 6: for the Golden Globes and he pulled me aside and said,
Speaker 6: I think I have a role for you. I remember
Speaker 6: this now, oh wow. And I remember saying to him,
Speaker 6: I said, anytime, anywhere for you, Neil. You know I'd
Speaker 6: do it because I just adore you. I still to
Speaker 6: this day adore him. And he said, all right, I
Speaker 6: may have something really interesting for you. And that's something
Speaker 6: I'm just now remembering this. That is how I got
Speaker 6: that role. So it helps to know, It helps to
Speaker 6: know people.
Speaker 1: Sure. No, he was on our he came on our podcast.
Speaker 1: We interviewed him and he was like, so we were like,
Speaker 1: we could just talk to you for five hours.
Speaker 4: Like he's amazing, Right, He's just he's the.
Speaker 2: Best and he remembers everything.
Speaker 6: He's like I said, he's literally one of the smartest
Speaker 6: people I've ever met.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they got you in there, you were you
Speaker 1: were guests. I mean, this is season two, like this
Speaker 1: is the show is just starting, like.
Speaker 4: Was this season two?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, because you're you. You directed Solace in
Speaker 1: season four, but this was season two, so you're you
Speaker 1: kind of got on the SVU train at the beginning.
Speaker 1: Had you been like watching the show at all before
Speaker 1: when he called you in to do it, or like
Speaker 1: me because it was a new show.
Speaker 6: I remember, I was very aware of the show, and
Speaker 6: I had watched a few episodes of the show. But
Speaker 6: knowing Marishka, who I'd met on Er, and knowing Chris
Speaker 6: from acting class previously, I was I did watch the show.
Speaker 6: I think I watched the pilot episode in a few episodes,
Speaker 6: and I thought, this show is really good. And I
Speaker 6: was and I was not surprised at all that it
Speaker 6: would be very successful. I mean, two, those two actors
Speaker 6: are also such powerhouses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they always were.
Speaker 6: I mean Marishka on Er was genius and she was
Speaker 6: so good on Er and Chris was great in acting class.
Speaker 6: My only argument with Chris and acting classes. He used
Speaker 6: to go up, he'd do his scenes, and then he'd leave.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so that's actually very stabler.
Speaker 4: But yes, yeah, yes, that was like come on, Chris.
Speaker 1: Come on, you know, like this is a community.
Speaker 4: This is our community.
Speaker 6: But now he was always he was always great and
Speaker 6: very supportive, and so yeah, that's that's how it came
Speaker 6: to be. I mean, I remember I read I auditioned
Speaker 6: for my role on I don't want everybody. I don't
Speaker 6: want the audience to think that like in Hollywood, friends
Speaker 6: just give you jobs sometimes they sometimes they do, but
Speaker 6: more often than not, you have to go out and
Speaker 6: earn them. And I had read I went in on
Speaker 6: the whole cattle call for the I played a role
Speaker 6: on Er. I got to do like four or five
Speaker 6: episodes of Er, and I auditioned for that and that
Speaker 6: was kind of a grueling experience to get that role
Speaker 6: and was lucky enough to get that role, which you know,
Speaker 6: I always say, like you never know where something's going.
Speaker 4: To lead, and I think it right to this SPU character.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I feel like I got so excited because
Speaker 2: we had talked to Neil Berr if you knew him,
Speaker 2: but you were saying how you met Marishka on the
Speaker 2: set and so you guys stayed friends post r until
Speaker 2: les be it.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's yeah, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's And then the opportunity to direct came up, which, yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just about to ask you about that, because
Speaker 1: it seems like just looking at your IMDb, this was
Speaker 1: kind of your first major television thing, was directing soulless?
Speaker 4: Yeah it was. I mean I had done.
Speaker 6: I had written and directed two short films and one
Speaker 6: that was very much felt in the vein of an SVU,
Speaker 6: kind of a procedural drama about a crime that had
Speaker 6: been committed, and it was dark and.
Speaker 4: Had it was good. I thought it was.
Speaker 6: It was really well done, and I thought I was
Speaker 6: really on my way until I got the opportunity to
Speaker 6: direct A Solace on SVU. And I'm so grateful to
Speaker 6: Ted Katscheff, who was the producing director and executive producer,
Speaker 6: and to Nil for giving.
Speaker 4: Me the opportunity.
Speaker 6: I was not really prepared or ready yet in hindsight,
Speaker 6: you know, Hindsight's twenty twenty off. I knew how to
Speaker 6: make cool shots, and I knew how to talk with
Speaker 6: actors because as being an actor, I'm comfortable in that
Speaker 6: in that world, which is you know, which is. I
Speaker 6: don't want to discredit that, because those are two important
Speaker 6: skills to have for directors, but you know, those are
Speaker 6: two skills in a wide range of skills.
Speaker 4: You need to have. And I was, you know.
Speaker 6: Woefully unprepared for what it would take to direct a
Speaker 6: huge network television show. And so the fact that I
Speaker 6: wasn't fired from directing Solace is something that I am
Speaker 6: very grateful to all all parties involved. But it was
Speaker 6: just over my head. As most first time directors are
Speaker 6: on network television, it is a very very challenging job.
Speaker 1: You have to start somewhere, right.
Speaker 6: I mean, yep, and I'm so and again this Ted
Speaker 6: Kanchieff and Neilbert gave me my start as a director.
Speaker 1: I think your somewherre directing right now or you just
Speaker 1: were you were like in Canada or something directing.
Speaker 4: Or I directed the Flash.
Speaker 1: Well my husband is a fan. Ooh, well yeah, big fan.
Speaker 4: But I was.
Speaker 6: I just finished doing a lone star, the nine to
Speaker 6: one one lone Star with this after name, Rob Lowe,
Speaker 6: which was interesting, really interesting to work with.
Speaker 1: Wow, I need to work with your brother.
Speaker 6: And I'm currently directing Titans for It's an HBO Max
Speaker 6: show called Oh Cool. Just a really good show, really good.
Speaker 6: Working with Rob is fantastic. I mean, we're from the
Speaker 6: line from spinal tap. We're closer than brothers. We are
Speaker 6: we are, we are closer than brothers, and we do
Speaker 6: really well together. And his son John Owen was the
Speaker 6: writer of the episode, so it was it was really
Speaker 6: a special experience.
Speaker 1: So with your directing, are you is that kind of
Speaker 1: where you're leaning now? Are you still like going are
Speaker 1: you still working on getting acting parts? Or are you
Speaker 1: kind of like that's you know, moving towards directing, trying
Speaker 1: to split time? What's the what's the deal there?
Speaker 6: Uh, In a perfect world, I'd be able to I'd
Speaker 6: be able to split time.
Speaker 4: In a perfect world, I would be able to do both.
Speaker 4: I would.
Speaker 6: But acting is is is very fickle. It's interesting. I
Speaker 6: miss acting. I haven't really done much since I was
Speaker 6: on Supergirl. I had a recurring role on Supergirl, which
Speaker 6: was a lot of fun. But I don't I work
Speaker 6: at directing. I don't work much at acting anymore. I don't,
Speaker 6: So I'm not I'm not in a place where I
Speaker 6: really want to scour the breakdowns and look for opportunities
Speaker 6: and you know, make all the phone calls and and
Speaker 6: you know, ride my agents about why am I not
Speaker 6: reading for this and reading for that? So, but I
Speaker 6: just am't really fulfilled by directing, and I feel really
Speaker 6: fortunate and really lucky to be at a place where
Speaker 6: I get the opportunity to direct, and so it's hard.
Speaker 6: I miss acting. I'd like to be acting more, but
Speaker 6: not at the cost of not directing. So somewhere there's
Speaker 6: a balance. I just haven't been able to find it
Speaker 6: quite yet. But I'm not complaining getting to direct the
Speaker 6: shows I've been directing, is I mean, like, really a
Speaker 6: dream to come true?
Speaker 2: Are there any lessons that you learned directing soul lists
Speaker 2: that you've carried on through other gigs since it was
Speaker 2: your first one?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean so many lessons that I learned. I mean,
Speaker 6: it's funny. Is the biggest challenge I faced as a
Speaker 6: first time director on a network television show was just
Speaker 6: how much you have to manage time and because there's
Speaker 6: only so much time you have to shoot in a day,
Speaker 6: and also what I need to cover a scene. And
Speaker 6: by that, I mean how is it all going to
Speaker 6: be put together in the editing room. You film it
Speaker 6: in pieces, obviously, but when you put it together, it's
Speaker 6: a continuous piece of film with cuts, and so one
Speaker 6: of the things that Ted Katscheff is so good at
Speaker 6: is understanding how all of these pieces that you film
Speaker 6: cut together to make the hole. And he after I
Speaker 6: think after the second day that he didn't fire me,
Speaker 6: he sat behind me and would.
Speaker 4: Go, where's your cut? Where's your cut?
Speaker 6: And I didn't understand at the time what he meant,
Speaker 6: and I just wasn't experienced enough. And I was like, well,
Speaker 6: I'll figure because I'm thinking, this is a really cool
Speaker 6: scene and I've got it shot a cool way and
Speaker 6: the actors are really good. And he was telling me,
Speaker 6: asking me where my cut was. And I said to him,
Speaker 6: I said, well my cut, Well, I'll figure it out
Speaker 6: when I'm in the editing room. And he said, no,
Speaker 6: you will not figure it out in the editing room.
Speaker 6: You will always know where your cut is. And he
Speaker 6: was right, and it put that seed in my mind
Speaker 6: for me to try and figure out. It's taking me
Speaker 6: years and years. I've been directing now about seventeen years so,
Speaker 6: and I feel like I just finally became really competent
Speaker 6: and good at it, if I may say so, about
Speaker 6: six about six years ago to where I really went, Oh,
Speaker 6: I understand what Ted meant, and now mind you Ted
Speaker 6: had directed Rambo Weekend at Bernie's North Dallas forty, so
Speaker 6: he was like a big feature director and then over
Speaker 6: I don't know, three hundred hours of television. So this
Speaker 6: is a very seasoned veteran who's a very good director.
Speaker 4: Giving me a gift.
Speaker 6: It was a little bit like the great Santini, you know,
Speaker 6: giving a gift to his son. It was hard to
Speaker 6: hear and it was really challenging. But I think in
Speaker 6: the end, to go back to the question what did
Speaker 6: I learn, I think I almost learned everything in directing Solace. Again,
Speaker 6: the lesson for me, as I'm always reminded in life,
Speaker 6: is you know, oftentimes it's at our lowest points, our
Speaker 6: darkest moments, that we have the most to learn and
Speaker 6: if we're able to sort of survive them. Which I
Speaker 6: came away from Soulas going all right, I know I
Speaker 6: don't know a lot. I know I've got a lot
Speaker 6: to learn. But I came away from directing Soulas completely
Speaker 6: committed to becoming a good director and thought it was
Speaker 6: a little bit like that which doesn't kill you will
Speaker 6: make you stronger. And it was hard because I had
Speaker 6: to kind of be honest with myself and go I
Speaker 6: am green, I am inexperienced. I thought I knew what
Speaker 6: I was doing because I had a short film that
Speaker 6: went to the Toronto Film Festival and had gone to
Speaker 6: the Tribeca Film Festival, and I thought, well, you know,
Speaker 6: I've arrived.
Speaker 4: I'm a director now.
Speaker 6: And it was very humbling, I must say, to realize
Speaker 6: how much I didn't know.
Speaker 2: And now that we know that you were friends with
Speaker 2: Maloney and Riushka, how was it directing your friends?
Speaker 1: Did they give you ship?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 6: It was they, you know they? And again I appreciated
Speaker 6: that they They were tough on me, both of them.
Speaker 4: Both of them were tough on me.
Speaker 6: The power dynamic could definitely changes, and it's still it's
Speaker 6: still to this day.
Speaker 4: Is that way.
Speaker 6: It's funny because I was on a show called Pretty
Speaker 6: Little Liars for a while and I was an actor
Speaker 6: on the show.
Speaker 4: I got to do both, but it was perfect. I
Speaker 4: got to act and I got to direct.
Speaker 6: And when I was an actor, I could go and
Speaker 6: hang out with the cast and talk about what we
Speaker 6: did over the weekend and what movies we liked, what
Speaker 6: TV shows we were binging. And then as soon as
Speaker 6: I started directing, if I went into the holding area
Speaker 6: where all the actors were around talking.
Speaker 4: They'd all get really quiet and look at me and go, yeah,
Speaker 4: what what do you want?
Speaker 6: And I was like, I'm just coming in to say
Speaker 6: good morning and hi and how was your weekend?
Speaker 4: And they're like they'd say like, oh, it was fine.
Speaker 6: And there was always this kind of like I all
Speaker 6: of a sudden became the teacher or the parent, and
Speaker 6: as soon as I as soon as I leave the room,
Speaker 6: I could hear them first into laughter and have this
Speaker 6: great time. But so directing can be a very lonely position.
Speaker 6: Somebody once said to me, nobody invites the director to dinner.
Speaker 4: And it's really true. It's really true.
Speaker 6: So that the relationship on when I was directing the
Speaker 6: SVU with Mirshka and with Chris shifted a little bit
Speaker 6: because I was now, you know, expected to have be
Speaker 6: in charge of, you know, writing the ship and driving
Speaker 6: us toward you know, making our days and getting everything
Speaker 6: we needed. And so I was no longer just you know,
Speaker 6: one of one of their friends who was also an
Speaker 6: actor that they liked. So I was held in a
Speaker 6: different capacity and that was challenging. I did not expect that,
Speaker 6: but they were both very very tough on me and
Speaker 6: again made me a better act director.
Speaker 4: I believe in the end. It was hard.
Speaker 6: I did not appreciate it at the time, but in hindsight,
Speaker 6: I realized what they were doing was treating me like
Speaker 6: they would any other director who showed up on set
Speaker 6: who was inexperienced and not really ready to handle the
Speaker 6: load of directing a show like that, And so it
Speaker 6: frustrated me and I was angry, but ultimately I had
Speaker 6: to look inward and try to take away the lesson
Speaker 6: from it, and the lesson was, you know, I needed
Speaker 6: more experience.
Speaker 4: I really really did.
Speaker 6: And so I've seen them since and friends with Marishka
Speaker 6: still and I ran into Chris recently and I kind
Speaker 6: of made an amends to Chris. It was very interesting
Speaker 6: because I saw him at some some event and he's
Speaker 6: very stoic, and I don't think you're going to get
Speaker 6: Chris on the show.
Speaker 1: Well, Diane Neil says she thinks he'd do it, but
Speaker 1: we might have to wait a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been really fun doing this show for so
Speaker 2: many reasons. But everyone that comes on is like Marishka
Speaker 2: is an angel from God. She is everything.
Speaker 1: She is like the head of the ship.
Speaker 2: And then everyone with Maloney is like he's kind of
Speaker 2: serious and weird and stretching, and so we that's like
Speaker 2: the vibe we get.
Speaker 1: Very talented. I mean, everybody said how talented and could
Speaker 1: he is?
Speaker 6: No body and I would say, what he What he
Speaker 6: is is extraordinarily committed, like so deeply committed and cares
Speaker 6: so deeply and is working at such a high level
Speaker 6: that I think he has a hard time if somebody
Speaker 6: isn't completely one hundred percent on their game, and I
Speaker 6: have to respect that. I mean, it's any difficulty I
Speaker 6: ever had with Chris isn't about like it's some you know,
Speaker 6: insignificant issue like catering isn't warm, or you know, my
Speaker 6: trailer's too far away, or It's always about the work.
Speaker 6: And it was always whatever difficulty and hard time I
Speaker 6: had with Chris, it was about the work and it
Speaker 6: was about the vision for the scene. So I'll say
Speaker 6: I think what Chris is. I think Chris is probably
Speaker 6: really shy. Actually, I think he's a bit of an introvert,
Speaker 6: which is strange because he's he presents us this strapping,
Speaker 6: like muscular strong, you know, masculine figure, but I think
Speaker 6: probably underneath it, he's actually probably very shy, so you're
Speaker 6: not going to get a lot of like hanging out
Speaker 6: by the monitor, laughing and joking. I think he's really
Speaker 6: serious about his work and then goes to where he's
Speaker 6: most comfortable, which I think is probably you know, not
Speaker 6: being the most social guy in the world. So that's
Speaker 6: my take on Chris is I think he's just really
Speaker 6: actually probably underneath it all, very controverted.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: Marishki, on the other hand, is a complete extrovert, right,
Speaker 6: and just I mean like she's just like good time Marishka.
Speaker 6: It's like laughs and always having a good time and
Speaker 6: keeping it light. And so they're very different in that way,
Speaker 6: and I think that's probably what gave them such great chemistry,
Speaker 6: right because you know, like opposites coming together is really interesting.
Speaker 6: That's kind of what you want for chemistry.
Speaker 2: And what were you going to say about the party
Speaker 2: with you and Maloney or like you guys made amends
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, it was just I just I said, you
Speaker 6: know this, I mean, this is you know, being with hindsight,
Speaker 6: being twenty twenty and sixteen, fifteen years of experience.
Speaker 4: Under my belt.
Speaker 6: I've been able to look at that experience of directing
Speaker 6: that show and realize how green I was and how
Speaker 6: inexperienced I was, And I just basically said, you know,
Speaker 6: I said, I'm I don't know if I said I
Speaker 6: was sorry, because I'm not sure I try anything to
Speaker 6: be sorry about. But I kind of acknowledged the fact
Speaker 6: that I was green and inexperienced when we work together,
Speaker 6: and Chris was gracious in Chris's best way, which was
Speaker 6: to kind of acknowledge the fact, you know, but again,
Speaker 6: I think he's really a very sensitive guy. He kind
Speaker 6: of acknowledged it and was like, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: you know some of you know, some of those listen.
Speaker 6: Sometimes actors and artists, I mean not just actors and artists,
Speaker 6: but sometimes people are really can come across as aloof
Speaker 6: or or arrogant when really what's going on internally and
Speaker 6: inside is that they're really uncomfortable or awkward with in interacting.
Speaker 6: And I just think he's one of those guys, you
Speaker 6: know that's he's got a really big heart. He's a
Speaker 6: he's a good guy underneath, but I think he's imposing,
Speaker 6: like physically, he's a big guy, and he's got that
Speaker 6: look about him, but I think that's kind of at
Speaker 6: odds with what's going on inside of him. So I
Speaker 6: he just he's kind of nodded and said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: that was an interesting that was an interesting, interesting experience.
Speaker 6: And I kind of said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: That was that was interesting.
Speaker 6: And I was inexperienced and not really ready for that
Speaker 6: big of a role in directing your show. And I
Speaker 6: sure loved work, but I sure loved the experience and
Speaker 6: thank you for that. And he's like, yeah, man, it's
Speaker 6: all good, and kind of we laughed and off he went.
Speaker 2: It's wild to hear this because watching it, I mean,
Speaker 2: I wasn't looking out. But it's a great up. It's
Speaker 2: one of the greatest episodes.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that's really It has.
Speaker 1: So many good twists. It's like great, and you have
Speaker 1: it's such a good cast, I mean, and Dowd.
Speaker 6: You got like, oh, it's a crazy cast, and Logan
Speaker 6: Marshall Green.
Speaker 4: I believe.
Speaker 6: But here's the thing about that is I believe as
Speaker 6: an actor and as a director, and we're only as
Speaker 6: good as the script and only as good as the story.
Speaker 6: And I will also say as a director, I've come
Speaker 6: to learn that When it's good, I get way too
Speaker 6: much credit, and when it's bad, I get way too
Speaker 6: much blame. And that's just the nature of directing television.
Speaker 6: When it's really good, there's just way too much because
Speaker 6: so many things have to come together for an episode
Speaker 6: to really work. And first and foremost is a script
Speaker 6: in the story, and if it's not on the page,
Speaker 6: it's not magically going to appear. And so I was
Speaker 6: very fortunate to have a good episode and good writing.
Speaker 2: You can tell how much you love your work.
Speaker 4: Well, that's nice to hear. I do. I do love
Speaker 4: I do love my work.
Speaker 6: And I'm i'm you know, as I as I get
Speaker 6: older and mature, I realize how fortunate I am. I'm
Speaker 6: just just struck by how fortunate I am to have
Speaker 6: the opportunity to get to do what I do. I mean,
Speaker 6: it's not lost on me. I don't take any moment
Speaker 6: of it for granted. It is such a privilege to
Speaker 6: get to be an actor and now to be a
Speaker 6: director as well. So I'm i'm you know, I'm just
Speaker 6: really kind of I just feel so fortunate. So it's
Speaker 6: nice to be able to talk about these things.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, she loved him.
Speaker 2: I loved his energy, everything he said, and obviously he
Speaker 2: complimented us up up top, so number one guy.
Speaker 1: And he listened to some episodes of our podcast.
Speaker 2: I love that like zooms to number one and gave
Speaker 2: the scoop. And I just love people that are thoughtful
Speaker 2: and sharing about their craft and about like the process
Speaker 2: of learning and like doing things before you think you're
Speaker 2: ready or when you think, like with directing and then
Speaker 2: jumping in and then being grateful and understanding how awesome
Speaker 2: it is to have mentors and listen to people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just I love the process of creation.
Speaker 1: I do feel like we just keep talking to people
Speaker 1: who are just so like humble and grateful and positive
Speaker 1: and they're successful, and it's just like a really great
Speaker 1: It's just really great to see the cause and effect.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I think if they weren't humble, they
Speaker 2: wouldn't be on the pod. Okay, that's the theory, right
Speaker 2: or maybe I know now Neil Bear, he knows he's
Speaker 2: the best.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm working at Harvard. Excuse me. I would like to
Speaker 2: add the number one lesson, of course, don't fuck your kid, yeah,
Speaker 2: aka rape your kids.
Speaker 1: Yes, don't rid your kids. If today's postmortem is anything
Speaker 1: tells us anything, it's do not have sex with your kids.
Speaker 1: I mean, do not molest or rape your kids. You
Speaker 1: can't have sex really with your kids. No, I said,
Speaker 1: aka rape. Yeah, maybe that was too like I was
Speaker 1: correcting myself.
Speaker 2: Oh, we both suck up. Yeah, it's hard. Language is
Speaker 2: difficult when you're so trained. It's like you're so trained
Speaker 2: and everywhere else. It's like when you get into a
Speaker 2: social conversation about everything, even when someone's trying to be
Speaker 2: or saying the right thing, the language is hard. It's
Speaker 2: like you really have to yeh know this stuff to
Speaker 2: know what's appropriate or not because people will be like,
Speaker 2: how dare he fuck an underaged girl? And you're like,
Speaker 2: you're on the right side, you know, like I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna nip it with you.
Speaker 1: But sometimes but yeah, and I guess.
Speaker 2: Don't talk to the cops, zip it unless the lawyer
Speaker 2: comes zip it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he fully confesses without a lawyer. Don't let the
Speaker 1: cops flatter you. Don't let the cops tell you that
Speaker 1: like you're the one that's gonna help them solve the crime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are trained to lie. Manipulate and get information
Speaker 2: out of people. There's a reason cops do well on Survivor.
Speaker 5: A.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the best winners unfortunately are or fortunately
Speaker 2: are cops. Wow, because you know they're physically strong, but
Speaker 2: in terms of like they know what's up, they know
Speaker 2: what to say. One guy built spy shacks.
Speaker 1: They can like sniff out weakness, I bet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they just fully know how to lie. There
Speaker 2: was actually a season with two cops and one cop,
Speaker 2: like it was like.
Speaker 1: Blue line baby, and then the guy.
Speaker 2: Was like, I'm voting her out and she felt betrayed,
Speaker 2: Like she was like, we're cop brother sister, What the fuck?
Speaker 2: Guess what? The came back won the whole season. Hello,
Speaker 2: learned her lesson was like came back and like there
Speaker 2: was one moment where like there was a clue under
Speaker 2: someone else and they didn't see it. And while she
Speaker 2: was swimming, she would be like with everyone was able
Speaker 2: to slither out on a platform, grab a secret thing,
Speaker 2: put it in her bra, swim to the main thing
Speaker 2: with no one noticing, and like was able and then
Speaker 2: learn how to lie, lie to people's faces. And then
Speaker 2: the other cop he's won twice now fuck. Like, So, now,
Speaker 2: if you're a cop or a lawyer, or if you're
Speaker 2: a favorite, you don't tell people you're like, oh, I
Speaker 2: work in bail box. Are like, you just lie, you
Speaker 2: say you do other things.
Speaker 1: They say cops are quitting in droves all across the countries.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're just all trying to get onto survivor.
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, everyone from Burger King and the police departments
Speaker 2: will be on the next season.
Speaker 1: Me and me and leave them.
Speaker 2: Oh. What I realized was Tandy Veronica. Tandy's husband is
Speaker 2: in an episode of Sex and the City that I
Speaker 2: just watched, and I lost my mind. And to explain
Speaker 2: to the person I was with why I was excited
Speaker 2: was humiliating. But he was in an episode of Sex
Speaker 2: in the City where Miranda goes to the comedy club
Speaker 2: and he is her date, and so when he goes
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, his phone rings. The comedian is bad
Speaker 2: and he's like, what the fuck? Answer answer the phone,
Speaker 2: and the phone call is her date's wife. And then
Speaker 2: he comes back and like they do a thing, and
Speaker 2: it's a whole thing about like why are men liars?
Speaker 2: She straight up asked him, how long have you been divorced.
Speaker 2: He went three years, just like that, he just said
Speaker 2: three years.
Speaker 1: That's a d quote. Wait, I literally remember every moment
Speaker 1: of that episode. I remember, like exactly what it looks
Speaker 1: like and what happens. And I just didn't place that
Speaker 1: guy's face at all.
Speaker 2: No, it would be why. I mean, yeah, I'm very proficient,
Speaker 2: and I didn't get it until just now when I
Speaker 2: saw it on accident and like we had just done
Speaker 2: this episode, you know, like, yeah, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I would have been able to connect all of this
Speaker 2: if it wasn't timed perfectly. But the Universe that Be
Speaker 2: wanted someone listening here today to know this. Sure, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: and this this is an intro thing. But Manifest look
Speaker 2: at us putting Manifest manifesting Manifest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you don't know what she's talking about. Apparently
Speaker 1: Manifest might be getting another season, so people are manifesting
Speaker 1: another Manifest. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, right back a peak. Back's a peak?
Speaker 1: Anyway, Peak a classically fucked up episode that I think
Speaker 1: about all the time, Like I've seen it so many times,
Speaker 1: and I mean, yeah, I don't know how much real
Speaker 1: world application there is to this episode. Well, we have
Speaker 1: the real crime.
Speaker 2: I also learn, you know, put on a shoe if
Speaker 2: you're going to stalk a lover.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're going to cross Central Park in a
Speaker 1: mink stole, nothing but a mink fur, put some shoes on, yeah,
Speaker 1: and bake a light.
Speaker 2: Like if you're for money, maybe watch out.
Speaker 1: Did we learn nothing from Liza almost losing a toe
Speaker 1: trying to get her steps in and ugs? You guys
Speaker 1: have got to wear shoes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, this is a great episode. Oh what else
Speaker 2: did we learn? Oh, don't lie if you commit the crime,
Speaker 2: don't lie and say someone else did it about the
Speaker 2: zoom making it on the cameras. Yeah, just don't lie.
Speaker 2: It's easier when you don't lie.
Speaker 1: Sure do or think of a story. Think of a
Speaker 1: story that doesn't throw a random person under the bus.
Speaker 1: If you're going to come up with your alibi or
Speaker 1: like your you know, your cover story, don't make it like, oh,
Speaker 1: someone else is going to take that was? Like what was?
Speaker 1: So that's what's so fucked up in Like another episode
Speaker 1: that we're talking about is that the person who was
Speaker 1: guilty tried to pin it on a kid. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't say it because it hasn't come out yet.
Speaker 2: We like to keep it secret. Listen, this was a
Speaker 2: great post mortem. Only maybe thirty percent had to do
Speaker 2: what we learned from the episode.
Speaker 1: But you know what, I think you have to say?
Speaker 5: How good Wang looks and glasses, Oh yeah, I wish
Speaker 5: you wore glasses regularly.
Speaker 1: We learned, We learned that, you know, George Huang was
Speaker 1: part of our lives. That's how we learned. We learned
Speaker 1: that from this episode. And yeah, it looks.
Speaker 2: Good and his coffee cup acting is superb.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's unbeatable. Let's head into what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: Our weekly segment where we give you an organization or
Speaker 1: a resource that you can go to or donate to,
Speaker 1: or just learn more about the topics that we touched
Speaker 1: on in today's episode. Today we're going to be highlighting
Speaker 1: survivors of incest Anonymous, which is SIA. The website is
Speaker 1: SIAWSO dot org. That's SIAWSO dot org. They empower people
Speaker 1: who have suffered from childhood sexual abuse and who want
Speaker 1: to become survivors and thrivers. It's kind of like AA.
Speaker 1: It's a twelve step self help recovery program with no
Speaker 1: dues or fees. Confidential Anonymous anyone over the age of
Speaker 1: eighteen who has been sexually abused as a child is welcome.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's just a great support network of groups
Speaker 1: and meetings and there's plenty of tools and literature on
Speaker 1: their website, so go check it out.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and next week join us for
Speaker 2: Intimidation Game season sixteen, episode fourteen, as always there on Hulu,
Speaker 2: even if they're misnumbered. Peacock, isn't that a song by
Speaker 2: the Pussy Kittles. What show us your pee pee pee
Speaker 2: pee peacock? Oh maybe it's Katy Perry, It's Katie peecock. Whatever,
Speaker 2: So watch with us, don't watch with us, Follow us
Speaker 2: on Instagram, and thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: See you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at Glittercheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton, and.
Speaker 1: To our sound engineer and personal hero, Analie Nilson, and
Speaker 1: to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean
Speaker 1: Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser
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Speaker 1: Done