WEBVTT - The Coronavirus and Inequality 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.720 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.000 pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.360 us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You're 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.640 listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Masser along with Kaylee Lines. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.199 And we do want to get into the latest on 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.600 the virus because we've had a bunch of headlines. Certainly 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.400 today we know Europe is seeing more cases and getting 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.639 into another shutdown, if you will. Astro Zenica saying it's 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.200 vaccine candidate produced a robust immune response and elderly people, 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.680 Jane Jay saying the first batches of its shot could 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.120 be available in January. So there's a lot going on. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:53.760 So back with us for our daily check on COVID 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.080 nineteen and with his perspective, Dr Sandra Galaia he's Dina 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.360 Professor at Boston University School of Public Health. He's author 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.960 of Pained Uncomfortable Conversations about the Public's health, and he 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.240 joins us once again on the phone from Boston. Dr 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.520 Galay and nice to have you here with Kayley and myself. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.760 How are you, um well, Thank you Carol, Thank you 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.920 Kayley for having me again. I am doing as well 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.360 as can be adjusted for coronavirus times, I know. Tell me, 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.959 tell us what Boston is like right now. Well, I 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.920 think Boston right now is a little bit anxious. I 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.240 think I feel like we are and everybody is on 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.800 the edge of their seat. We're seeing cases slowly creep up. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.600 They're going up, they go down, but the general slow 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.640 increase in trend. And I think the mayor and the 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.320 governor have been appropriately increasingly cautious, and the and the 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.800 urging all citizens to be careful, and I think businesses 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:46.160 have been doing the same. So I think it's a 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.880 little bit of a balancing act between knowing that cases 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:55.640 are slowly trending up, but taking precautions to double down 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.880 on the on the things that we are all doing, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.840 wearing masks and being careful with test thing with contact 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:06.520 racing to avoid these cases from becoming another surge. And 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.840 that's in the greater city of Boston. Dr GLA. But 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.200 what about at Boston University. How is the university, How 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.800 are your students, how are you handling this? Yeah, it's 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.320 actually quite quite remarkable how well we are doing in 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.040 the university. And obviously the university is it's vulnerable to 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.440 changes in the city around it. But we have had 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.919 a fairly low case positivity in tool right now, which 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.639 about point two percent, which is two per thousand, while 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.760 in Brookline around it we're about two percents, almost tenfold more. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.120 And I think the reason for that is that within 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.200 the university we have a very big university, but you're 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.239 able to control things a little bit more. We test 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.240 all our students twice a week or once a week, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.200 depending on their contact. We have very sophisticated and robust 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.760 contact racing that if somebody tests positive, we talk to 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.960 them right away, we isolate them, we isolate their contact. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.119 So in some respects, the universe like a city within 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.160 a city, but one where you have a lot more control. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.040 So we have been so far touched with doing well. 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.280 I think there is a lot of anxiety I have 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.000 and a lot of us have about whether the larger 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.400 city will end up affecting the university, and obviously, if 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.200 it does, will have to change course as to what 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.120 we're doing. But so far, the university, frankly, it's a 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.280 safer place to be than the than the city around. Yeah. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.680 It's kind of interesting, right, I think, you know, center 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:32.480 that as we've opened up all kinds of educational systems, um, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.880 you know, from K through you know, of course going 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.720 into colleges and universities, I think we've had some success 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.240 stories and then we've had certainly some problem areas, especially 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.520 when it comes to college sports reopening. I mean, do 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.360 you still feel like it's important that we continue to 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:52.520 reopen educational areas and keep them open. Yeah, And I 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.640 think the answer is yes. But it's a it's a 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.680 qualified yes. It's a it's qualified by two things. Number 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.160 one is that I don't think opening some that means 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.280 opening and sort of going to back to business as 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.240 usual like it was October. Opening means having a lot 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.720 of precautions in place. Everybody wearing masks, people are being 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.880 careful not to go into work if they're sick, self attestation, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.080 everyday systems of testing, simple systems of isolating people who 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.039 have positive tests, isolating their contact, and the entire really 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.080 the entire range of efforts to mitigate the virus. So 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.280 I think yes, with those measures in place, I think 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.320 the second caveat to the yes is that we simply 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.480 need to have the humility to say today on October 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.400 the answer should be yes. But I don't know what 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.400 the answer should be tomorrow October, which is a bit unnerving, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.960 of course, as as you can both appreciate. But I 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.600 think simply if the data change, we should change. And 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.200 I think we as a university, I think we as 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.159 a city, as a state, as a country, should have 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:54.359 the humility to realize that that the virus may become 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.560 bigger than us, and we we need to change what 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.720 we're doing. Well, I have to look ahead then further 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.719 into to fall into the winter. Dr Elia. I mean 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.919 it's pretty bad right now, we're seeing record cases, and 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.240 then when it is dark and cold, no one wants 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.600 to be outside. Everyone is forced inside. Are you bracing 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.760 yourself for that? M hm, yeah, I am man. I 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.559 suppose the big question for the winter is as people 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.040 are all forced inside, will they continue to congregate inside, 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.840 which is which we know is what's driving most of 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.640 the cases. And here in Massachusetts, analyzes show very clearly 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.920 that a lot of the case spread comes from indoor 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.680 house parties and gatherings where people are not being careful 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.160 with protective equipment. So the question is are people going 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.480 to go inside and in the congregate, which is then 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.120 going to result in viral spread. The truth is, Carol 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:47.240 and Kyley, if if each of us stayed inside, just 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.920 on our couch, without contacting anybody, then there will be 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.560 no spread of coronavirus. So it really depends on what 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.440 we do by being inside. If we are inside, taking precautions, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.920 will be fine. But if being inside means congregation broadly 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.120 what we saw happen in the Southern States in the summer, right, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.680 So happened in Southern states in the summer as things 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.760 got hot, people went inside where there's air conditioning, and 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.039 there was all sorts of congregation which resulted in the 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.320 spread of the virus. So I think it really depends. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.760 But but the answer to your question, am I looking 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.440 at aggrehensively is unqualifiedly yes, Dr Galiah. You know, Charlie 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.760 Pellett was just talking about we also check in with 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.000 the folks and the teams over at Johns Hopkins. You know, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.080 we've often seen people come out and say, well, there's 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.120 more cases of COVID nineteen because we're doing more testing. Um, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.680 is that true or that's not the case. No, it's 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.720 not the case. I heard non Professor Sharpstein talk about 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.440 this and the clip and he's still is right, it's 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:44.840 not the case. I mean, there's no question we're doing 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.280 more testing and as a result, you do find more cases. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.480 But there's plenty of evidence that this is a real 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.720 rise in cases. Is not just do the testing. We're 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.680 seeing a rise in all age groups. And the professor 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.440 Sharstein noted, we are seeing a rise in hospitalizations. If 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.240 it was simply due to testing and do the testing 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.840 of healthier people, there would not be a rise in hospitalizations. Well, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.239 and that's a really smart point, right, And I also 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.200 think about the cases that do end up in the hospital. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.920 Are they how severe are they and how are we 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.240 or what we have we learned about treating those cases 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.080 because we have been fighting the virus now for six 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.200 or seven months, well we've learned quite a bit actually, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.400 And when you look at mortality you'll see that mortality 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.520 per person is quite a bit down. In fact, we're 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:33.120 about one quarter of the case mortality um that we 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.440 had in the first way, which was in March and April. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.760 Largely that because we've gotten better at treating the disease 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.920 in hospital. We've learned how it manifests, we've learned when 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.760 to oxygenate went to north so we are getting much 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.080 better at dealing with an hospital mother doesn't change the 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.640 fact that if there is a really big surge, it 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.560 may overwhelm hospitals and I see, which is what one 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.760 always worries about. But on a case by case basis, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.600 COVID is now much less fatal than it was when 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.400 we first learned about that six seven months ago. So 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.040 we're making progress on the therapy portion of this dr calia. 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.200 But of course we are still all eyes looking on 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.680 the race for a vaccine, astra Zenica, seeming to have 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.920 good news out overnight finding it worked for older population specifically, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:15.560 which we know are the most vulnerable in this. But 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.120 it's not just about getting a vaccine that works and 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.080 gets approved. You have to scale it, you have to 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.360 distribute it. How far away are we from me actually 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.800 being able to get a shot in my arm. Yeah, well, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.200 I think that's the question we all want to know. 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.760 I think most people who have following this carefully are 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.280 expecting announcements from several of the of the Phase three 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.679 trials in the next month. I think we'll have announcement 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.040 the next month or two that that some of these 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.760 Phase three trials are ready to move forward and then 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.920 go to market. But of course the scale up and 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.360 the manufacture and getting it to the people who need 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:53.520 it in some way that first gets it to people 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.600 who are at higher risk is going to be the 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.160 biggest question. And I think, you know, Carol, for you 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.240 and me to get it in the arms, how much, sure, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.920 but probably we are. We should not be first in line. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.079 The people should the first in line are people who 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.280 are elderly, people who hire the risk people, the groups 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.079 that have been suffering disproportionately from this virus. So it's 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.800 going to require a real logistical effort, and I think 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.040 and hope that we will do this in such a 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.880 way that is done equitably that the people who have 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.760 borne the greatest burden of COVID niting are the wants 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.120 to get vaccinated first. Well, and that's what I mean, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.160 this is so much of the work you've done, um 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.520 Dr Galleia, you know, and I think about the people. 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.040 You know, one of the things the virus laid there 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.200 right is the inequities out there in um certain populations, 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.480 a lot of minority population, certainly blacks within the United States. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.440 Are you hopeful that we will make sure that that 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.439 gets distributed to those people who are the most vulnerable, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.880 you know, who might not be closest to the health 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.439 care facilities or you know, we've seen the stories you 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.199 know already before. Are you hopeful? Are you do you 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.600 have any kind of certainty that the vaccine will get 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.280 to those people? Well, hope in certainty are different matters. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.720 I am, I am, I am, I am. I am 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.800 hopeful simply because I think there's been so much attention, 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.280 so much conversation, including through shows like yours, to this issue, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.600 that I think it has risen in our consciousness and 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.560 it has become clear to everybody it is important that 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.199 we do this right. It is fair that we do 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.640 this right. There have been reports. National Academy Medicine recently 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.760 had a report of a commission that articulated some very 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.840 clear principles about how we should distribute vaccines. So I'm 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.479 hopeful that the administration will be sensitive to and responsive 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.800 to these guidelines and implement the distribution in a way 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.360 that is fair and bright and reasonable. And I do 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.720 not think, by the way, that that has to come 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.320 necessarily at the expense of getting the vaccine out quickly. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.800 It is simply a matter of how we treage and 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.800 how we create algorithms for vaccine delivery. It's not just 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.480 about the vaccine though, Dr Galia, right. I mean, there's 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.520 a reason that all of these communities have been more, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.840 it's hit them harder. You've done a lot of work 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.720 on health inequality. You think we do a better job 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.560 of this coming out of this and just quickly just 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.280 going back to hope. I hope so because if if 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.160 we if we don't have learn from this moment about 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.360 how torow some some of thecent equities, truly, twenty will 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.440 have been a year wasted. Yeah, gosh, um, I always 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.240 love when we get some time with you, as Sandra, 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.480 Thank you so much. Dr Sandra Glea din at the 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.880 Boston University School of Public Health. Check out his book 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.880 Paining Uncomfortable Conversations about the public's Health. This is Bloomberg 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.960 Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. Michael, you're 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.840 with us. I'm hoping on the phone from Miami. That's okay, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.400 Hey listen, it's our New World Order. Um, good to 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.520 have you here with us. As Kaylee said, uh, this 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.480 is a store. It's just bananas. So tell us a 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.680 little bit about how this came to your attention. Well, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.320 we were investigating the whole issue of chemicals that go 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.640 into making narcotics um and we wanted to find out 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.200 where they were coming from because these are chemicals that 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.440 are in the global market. They are used for many 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.520 legal things, but they're also critical for making narcotics. And 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.040 one leave that we had to investigate the chemists going 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.760 into Columbia via Ecuador. Ecuador sort of a transit point 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.920 for the supplies that are needed to make cocaine and 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.959 also transit point to get cocaine out to the world 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.200 from Columbia because of its strategic location. So that's kind 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.520 of how it started. And I basically went there and 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.920 began to interview police and people in the in the industry, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.160 in the government, and that's how I came upon this story. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.439 It's fascinating. Jill, come on in on us. I think 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.160 we've got your line nice and clear. Now this is 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.920 just a wild story. Yeah, And and just major prompts 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.880 to UH, to Mike and Cam Simpson for the reporting 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.640 on the story. Cam had a very similar story, um, 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.400 just a couple of weeks ago. And and this is 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.120 almost a continuation of it because what we're really looking 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:49.640 at here are US companies that are caught up in 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.880 the international drug trade effectively. And it's not in the 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.480 same ways that you would think of of like you know, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.440 distributing cocaine or anything like that. It's really about the 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.240 raw ingredients, and in this case it's this Texas company, Tetra, 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.360 and and Mike give us a sense how big of 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.920 a portfolio does Tetra have in terms of all the 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:15.000 various chemicals that makes yeah well. Tetra specializes in supplying 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.559 the chemicals that go into sort of the liquids that 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.000 you need to drill an oil well or to do fracking. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.160 And this particular ingredient, which is called calcium chloride, is 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:25.840 one of the one of the things that goes into 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.640 these fluids that are really critical for finishing oil wells. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.079 They also sell it to all kinds of crazy stuff 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.199 like de icing roads, UH, keeping dust down on tennis courts, 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.920 processing cheese, drying out cheese astistic. It's an agent that 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.640 drives stuff out. So they're among the biggest producers in 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.440 the world in this particular chemical, and they started to 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.080 sort of expand sales around the world into other markets 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.320 because the oil industry was sort of getting weaker for 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.720 them over the last several years, and they started shipping 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.520 and selling some of this stuff into South America and 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.400 that's how it got diverted um into the hands of 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.319 the of the cocaine labs. UH should know that the 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.320 I'm sorry one thing, you know, they haven't been accused 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.760 of any crime, but their product has been just flooding 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.920 into this market somehow um for for years and they 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.800 haven't really been able to stop it or even known 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.240 about it. So bring that bring us up to speed 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.600 in terms of what we know about how this unfolds 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:31.120 in South America. Well, so the chemicals actually manufactured in 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.640 Finland and sold to Tucher sells it to a single 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.800 supplier distributor in Lima, Peru. So once it gets to Lima, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.080 it goes out into the local market there and they 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.000 that supplier does what they want with it, they resell 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.720 it wherever they want and we don't really know exactly how, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.480 but basically buyers working on behalf of the cocaine traffickers 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.240 in Colombia are just buying this stuff up who bring 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.920 it up by the ton by the truckload and finding 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.040 ways to smuggle it all the way up to Columbia. Uh. 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.360 There are laws in place that are supposed to stop this, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.480 but it just doesn't work and there's just too much 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.840 and you know it keeps getting through. Michael, I have 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.560 to hop in here first. I have to commend you 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.600 on this story. It had me at the edge of 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.800 my seat, and the kicker of it, I think is 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.320 one of the best parts. You say, this is a 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.400 US company who knows you informed them that it's booming. 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.320 Exports to Peru are being used for cocaine production. They 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.160 wouldn't tell you anything any action that they plan to take. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.320 How much of the onus is on them and how 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.920 much is it on these governments? Well, they say they're 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.320 complying with all the laws. They're using license their customer 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.920 and Peru that's buying it all is licensed to do 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.440 business in Peru, which is true technically, UM they say 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.080 their customers, says Sweares, they're not going to break any laws, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.480 which means they're not going to sell it to Cernarco's UM. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.200 But the point is massive volunce that this has been 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.160 going into that market at the same time that the 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.800 United Nations and other UH international organizations have been warning 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.800 that this product is being diverted in Peru UH to 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.320 agents for cocaine traffickers. UH. So there's been plenty of 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.600 warnings out there. We found it without having to look 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.480 too hard, and all, you know, all I had to 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.280 do was go to actually go to Ecuador and start 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.080 interviewing the police because they have a special unit it 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.840 does nothing but but sees illicit chemicals coming through the 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.000 country to try to keep them from getting to the traffickers. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.240 And the more I talked to the more this this 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.720 brand name kept coming up, and you know, they and 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.200 so it just became an endemic thing. So this company 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.280 when I when I asked them about that, that's basically 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.520 what they said, we comply with the laws. And I said, well, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.960 now that I've told you, UM, what are you gonna 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.360 do about it? And they just they would, they declined 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.880 to comment any further interesting And so calcium chloride is 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:55.560 ultimately the chemical that we're talking about in in this application, Mike. 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:01.000 And that's also pretty basic chemical that know, lots of 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.639 people make other than tetra. Uh. And what's happened when 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:11.440 when the narcos get their hands on products other than tetras. Well, yes, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.040 I was a curious part of this reporting. Uh. One 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.159 of the police officers in Ecuador I interviewed about this. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.879 He's a he's an expert, he's a chemical engineer, and 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.240 he told me that UH, Tetra makes the purest and 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.679 best quality calcium chlorid that does its job best. And 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.679 he said he knows this because they arrested some of 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.320 the smugglers and interrogated them and they said, yeah, this 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.359 is sort of a brand of choice. And the fact 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.920 once I bought a truckload of of calcium florid made 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:44.600 in China and the my client, the narcotics lab, said 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.520 I don't we want this stuff, it's horrible. Bring us Tetra. 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.280 So they even, you know, it's sort of has become 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.119 the brand of choice for all these uh, these labs 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.200 because of its quality. Well, this is a great story 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.760 and I highly recommend that every and check it out 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.919 at Bloomberg dot com. I'll put it out on Twitter 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.320 and and as Joel mentioned, UH they have done a 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.000 bunch of coverage in the magazine. They did another story 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.600 on heroin UH and the US companies that are making 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.680 kind of the hidden agreement ingredient in heroin. So there's 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.320 some great, great coverage on the drug trade and US 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.440 companies that are caught up in this story. Though. Check 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.840 it out by Mike Michael Smith. He's Bloomberg News uh 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.040 P and I reporter and he joined us on the 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.160 phone from Miami along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.080 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master along with 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:38.480 kay Ley Lines. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.920 Master on Bloomberg Radio. All right, you are listening to 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.800 Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master along with Kaylee Lines on 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.320 this Monday. One of our top stories today about President 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.000 g opening up a meeting in Beijing this week to 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.800 map out the next phase of economic development. It's the 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.159 country's fourteenth five year plan. It's expected to include a 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.399 focus around technological innovation and economic self for lines, and 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.159 that includes China having access to the latest and greatest 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.919 when it comes to semi conductors. As our Bloomberg New 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.320 Economy Editorial director Andy Brown writes in his weekly column, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.000 this is China's economic choke point. I love this story. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.399 Andy joins us from our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio along 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.960 with Kayley, who's also back there. Uh Andy, Um, you know, 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.960 we've been talking a lot about the semi conductor area, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.360 and I think this is just an interesting way when 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.800 we look at kind of what China needs, certainly going 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.000 forward as it tries to be a mite when it 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.480 comes to the world of technology. Exactly right. You talked 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.960 about the five year Plan, the fourteen five year plan. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.560 We're expecting something like one point four trillion dollars to 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.480 be devoted to technology, of which quite a bit is 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.360 going to be an effort to develop semi conductors. Don't 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.679 think that they've already spent about two hundred billion dollars 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.960 already trying to make advanced chips and they haven't actually 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.440 mastered it yet. And that in real terms, by the way, 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.800 to a billion dollars is actually more than the United 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.160 States spent on the Moon shot, the Apollo moon shot. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.600 It's quite a lot of money. I have to feel 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.240 bad for semis and semi companies here, right, They've just 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.080 been pawns in this battle between the US and China 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.920 when it comes to trade, when it comes to everything, 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.840 they are just so uh. They go with the fluctuations 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.640 and geopolitics. I mean, how can we feasibly get out 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.920 of the circle. How do you diversify the supply chain 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.040 so that either one of these countries can operate and 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.560 use chips without needing to interfere with the other. It's 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.959 a real problem, not just for the chip companies. As 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.960 you know, UM China is the biggest market. Their output 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.000 goes to China. It's a problem for them because if 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.399 they lose the China market, they lose the revenue that 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.840 they need to develop new chips. And as I said 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:53.720