1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: give them another onesie. Don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just going to 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: end up in the garage. Give them something that matters, 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: and what matters the most is protecting their child. What 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: do you love most in the world your children? What 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: with these smartest people I know in the world on 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Give that as a gift, not another onesie. Find out 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: how to protect at your child when you're out of 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: the mall or the store, or the grocery and the 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: parking lot at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: in daycare, even on line. I'd rather have that any 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: day of the week than a plastic toy or God 22 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, go to crime 23 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Stops here dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: neighbor says, the girl stopped at his home asking for 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: a ride to McCall, Mississippi, and tap on the window 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: and it's two little girls and they told me that 27 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: all they needed a ride to McCone their grandmother had paid. 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: Jeremy Lennier leaves directly across the street. He says, when 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: the girl stopped by, he and his mother saw lights 30 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: on at the home and the car on. Soon after 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: calling other family members, they found Erica Hall on the 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: other side of the car with a knife in her back. 33 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: He found on the other side of the car, laid 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: out she had the knife and up back on to 35 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Erica Hall was a single mother. She worked at Sanderson 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: Farms in Pike County. I've always seen her gone even 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: out in the evening's afternoons, going out soon going to work. 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: And so that fact that happened at night, it must 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: have been fairly late, unless it was one of her 40 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: nights off, because she was usually work. In a night 41 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: did a fourteen year old and a twelve year old 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: girls sisters stab and shoot their mother dad as brutal 43 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: payback after they were in the family car. What do 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: we know? I know right now that Erica Hall was 45 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: brutally murdered, stabbed, and shot. A hard working mother, a 46 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: single mom joining me. Syndicated talk show host Dave matt 47 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: cop turned PI, author of playbook to a Murder on Amazon, 48 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, former felony prosecutor, now defense attorney, Holly Hughes, 49 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: renowned psychologist doctor William July. You can find him at 50 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: doctor William July dot com. Dave mac is almost too 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: much for me to take in a mom stabbed and 52 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: shot man. Talk about overkill. I don't know. I'm gonna 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: need to shrink on that, Doctor William July, But Dave 54 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: Mack does. Let's just start at the beginning, before these 55 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: two little girls are blamed. What do we know about 56 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: the crime? Well, what we know right now is that 57 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: there was a lot going on prior to the actual 58 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: murder that took place. Fourteen year old and twelve year old. 59 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: They're two of the four children of Erica Hill. She 60 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: had four children. Oldest was sixteen, youngest was one, the 61 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: twelve and the fourteen year old. A week before the murder, 62 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: apparently tried to run their mother over with the family car. 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: Police were called, but the mother declined to press any charges. Apparently, 64 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: after that attempt on her life, she took away the 65 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: girl's cell phones, and that's what led to what took 66 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: place when the fourteen year old and twelve year old 67 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: allegedly stabbed and then shot their mother. When she was 68 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: getting the gun out of her car to try to 69 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: protect herself, the knife was left in her back. You know, 70 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: I'm I'm don't understand this was this over taking away 71 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: the phone. Well, we don't know if we don't know everything. 72 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: What we do know, Nancy, is that there was something 73 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: going on that caused these fourteen year old and the 74 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: twelve year old to try to run her over a 75 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: week before the murder with her car. We don't know 76 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: what led to that, but we know that after that 77 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: attempt on her life, that that's when she pulled their 78 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: cell phones. So obviously something was going on here between 79 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: mom and the fourteen year old and the twelve year old. 80 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, it didn't just spring up out 81 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: of nothing. There was something really going on here between 82 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: this family members straight out to doctor William July, renowned psychologists. 83 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: You can find him at doctor Williams july dot com 84 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: doctor July. That's the only punishment that I levy against 85 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: the twins right now. I really didn't want them to 86 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: have a phone to start with. I thought, you know, 87 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: I thought that that would bake them subject to predators 88 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: and to freaks online. But I broke down and let 89 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: them have a phone. Now it's their prize possession. Okay, 90 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: they're going on twelve, believe it or not. And that's 91 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: the thing that I use as leverage. If you don't X, 92 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your phone away, like finish your homework 93 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, this mom gets stabbed and shot. Yeah, 94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: in a in a normal situation, Nancy, where you have 95 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: normally functioning children in the normally functioning environment, the process 96 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: you described as having a phone, which is something that 97 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: kids really treasure, using that as something to condition them 98 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: to the right behavior for rewards and that sort of thing. 99 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: That's normal. But apparently, and of course I don't know 100 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: the details of the situation, but this is not obviously 101 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: a not a normally functioning situation. The first thing that 102 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: I wonder is where did the kids see the behavior 103 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: modeled that they are now manifesting because you and not. 104 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: A normally functioning child in a normal environment is not 105 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: going to stab their mother and contemplate these sorts of 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: things towards their mother. If there's not some sort of 107 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: modeling going on where they're seeing this sort of thing 108 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: take place and becoming somewhat normal to them to think that. Well. 109 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: On the other hand, Dr William and Jelli, we have 110 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: no indication anything like this or any violence was ever 111 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: in the home. We have a mom working her tail 112 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: off to support for children, but I do know this. 113 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: Emergency workers tried to resuscitate Erica Hall, who her relatives 114 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: found her covered in blood outside the family home just 115 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: minutes before emt arrived. She could not be saved. They 116 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: found the two daughters, both juveniles, which is trying to 117 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: figure out if these girls are responsible why Listen Deputies 118 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: are investigating the death of a thirty two year old woman. 119 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: Corner says she was stabbed multiple times and possibly shot. 120 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: Had victim identified as Erica Hall. She was reportedly murdered 121 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: on Lawson Road in a Magnolia last Friday. She was 122 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: standing in a bed that the knife was stealing her being. 123 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: Hall's body is now the state Crime Lab for autopsy. 124 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: Deputies are interviewing people in connection with this case. What 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: we are understanding is that the attack followed an incident 126 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: a few days earlier where the girls had their cell 127 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: phone taken away. But I want to go out to 128 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: Holly Hughes, felony prosecutor, now defast attorney. The reason she 129 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: took the cell phone away is because apparently one of 130 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: the girls tried to run over her with the car, 131 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: but she declined to prosecute exactly, and Nancy, that's why 132 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: a lot of times the state will say we don't 133 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: necessarily need the victim to go forward because the state 134 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: will step in and recognize there are some really deep 135 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: underlying issues. So once the police are called. In our jurisdiction, 136 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: once the police are called, somebody is going to jail 137 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: or to the juvenile detention center until we can figure 138 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: out what's happening with this family. Have these girls been 139 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: taken to a juvenile detention center and a proper examination performed, 140 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: this mom might still be alive. So it is difficult 141 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: to prosecute without a victim or a witness to testify, 142 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: but it can be done. Obviously, this is not about 143 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: a cell phone. This is deeper and longer to have 144 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: that much rage and to act out in that fierce 145 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: of a manner against the very person who is loving 146 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: you and putting a roof over your head and feeding 147 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: you and seeing that you have clothes to go to 148 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: school in. This is not about a cell phone. You 149 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: were just hearing from our friends at WJTV. That was 150 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: Andrew Harrison reporting. Deputies are investigating the death of a 151 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: thirty two year old mom afour, Erica Hall, who has 152 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: found stabbed and shot at her Magnolia, Mississippi home. It's 153 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: not so much now as a who done it, but 154 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: why she was stabbed in a band the life was 155 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: still in her bank. Robin Coney is devastated by the 156 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: horrifying way her niece, thirty two year old Erica Nicole Hall, 157 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: was killed. According to Pike County Coroner Jason Jones, Hall 158 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: was stabbed multiple times in her upper torso and back, 159 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: also suffering a gunshot wound to the chest. It happened 160 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: at her mobile home at the intersection of Lawson Road 161 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: and Magnolia Holmesville Road. Deputies arrested her fourteen and twelve 162 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: year old daughters. The girls you know. They was like, 163 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: when I drove up there was lights TC. We didn't 164 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: do this, we didn't do this, And I was like, Okay, 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: if y'all didn't do it, where was y'all when the 166 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: people's that was doing it did it. Fourteen year old 167 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: a Mariana Hall was charged as an adult with murder. 168 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: The twelve year old's name and charges are not being released. 169 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: Family members tell us Hall was home alone with the 170 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: two girls Friday night when an argument occurred. It was 171 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: her gun. He was at her cost, so they hadn't 172 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: got it out. So I guess when they was doing 173 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: all that to her, she was probably trying to get 174 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: to her gun to fight for her life. Hall is 175 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: also the mother of a sixteen year old and a 176 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 1: one year old. You are hearing from our friends at 177 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: w LBTTV. That's Rosslyn Anderson reporting on the death of 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: Erica Hall. I want to go out to Dave Max 179 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: syndicated talk show us what more can you tell us? Well, 180 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: the one thing to note here, Nancy, is that Robert 181 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: Cony was Erica Hall's aunt, and she said that the 182 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: kids were problems. Okay, the fourteen year old and the 183 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: twelve year old. They refused to go to school, and 184 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: the Erica Hall was trying to get them help. She 185 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: was trying to get them counseling. She was according to Coney, 186 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: she said that she was going to send them off 187 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: because they refused to go to school. Now I don't again. 188 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: Now we're going back to there was an underlying cause 189 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: of all of this that was going on. But the 190 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: mother's single mom. She's got four kids and two of 191 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: them refusing to abide by her wishes and do the 192 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: basic things of going to school. There were a lot 193 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: of issues here. What we are learning is that Erica 194 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: Hall was initially an attack inside her home that she 195 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: shared with the two girls, the twelve year old and 196 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: the fourteen year old. She somehow managed to stagger outside 197 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: the home and it was there that she died. She 198 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: was stabbed in the back, according to sources, the knife 199 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: still in the mom's back. Now, both the girls denied 200 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: stabbing their mom, and they were questioned, if you didn't 201 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: do it, then where were you when it happened. Now 202 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: we know that the killing of mom before Erica Hall 203 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: was after an argument in the family home. We know 204 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: that Erica owned a gun, So question did the girls 205 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: get the gun out of the car. Did they plan this? 206 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: Was it spur of the moment? We know that the 207 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: girls were very calm when they went to a neighbor's 208 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: home asking for a ride. They said, then their grandmother 209 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: had just died. So the neighbor calls Erica to confirm 210 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: that the grandma had passed away and gets no answer. 211 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: That seems to me like this was a plan and 212 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: that they were trying to get away from the scene 213 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: anyway that they could. What about that too, Doctor Williams 214 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: July psychologist. You can find them at doctor Williams July 215 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Being at the neighbor's home, calm, cool and 216 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: collected so quickly after that doesn't look good for them, 217 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: No it doesn't. And what I'm hearing here makes me 218 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: wonder if these again, these these girls have maybe not 219 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: in possibly not in the home. We don't know yet, 220 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: but possibly not in the home. But again, there's something 221 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: in this system going on, the system of things that 222 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: influenced them, the people, the places, maybe what they watch 223 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: on uh kind of programming that they're watching on television 224 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. But there's there's not the normal sense of 225 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: stop in their in their brain process, and who knows 226 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: what that might be. And that I really, I really 227 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: agree with what the prosecutors said before. As someone had 228 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: these children professionally psychologically evaluated, we wouldn't have these questions today. 229 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: There would have been intervention because we would have seen. 230 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: But in my experience, what I see is sometimes there 231 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: are issues where there are deep, deep issues in the child, 232 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, maybe abused, maybe things that have caused this 233 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: child to think in a way that it's not rational 234 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: and not normal for normal functioning. And so that's what's 235 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: gonna become very apparent as these children are are are 236 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: investigated further. There's something that happened here, and it causes 237 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: the person to think in an upside down way. Things 238 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: that are normal and moral become have become wrong to them, 239 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: and things that are wrong become normal. And that's why 240 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: they could probably see what they did as something that 241 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: was just not a big deal, you know. To Holly Hughes, 242 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: veteran prosecutor now Atlanta defense attorney, Holly, I'm gonna take 243 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: you back in time. I know you're going to remember this. 244 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: I know you recall Judge Josephine Holmes Cook, a superior 245 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: court judge I handled many many murder cases in front 246 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: of her, or she had been I think a defense 247 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: attorney or a probate attorney before she got on the bench, 248 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: and perfectly pleasant kind. I never really heard a bad 249 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: word about her. Of course, I did not fraternize with her, 250 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: because in my mind that would have been inappropriate, since 251 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: I tried cases in front of her. But I remember 252 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: when Judge Josephine Holmes Cook was murdered and it turned 253 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: out to be her teen son. Do you remember that. 254 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: I mean, this is really rare for a child to 255 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: kill their parents. I do remember, and I also remember 256 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: the prosecutors who prosecuted that, and you and I know them, 257 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: Susie and Clint and just I'm also thinking Nancy, especially 258 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: of Nicky Whitehead today, who was murdered by her twin 259 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: sixteen year old daughters in Rockdale County in two and ten, 260 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: Jasmi and Jasmian. And they tortured that woman and drown 261 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: her and beat her and just ganged up on her. 262 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: And something is seriously long, I mean, deep psychological problems 263 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: when these children, who again NICKI was a hard working 264 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: single mother trying to get it together. You know, Judge Cook, 265 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: like you said this wonderful woman, and these children just 266 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: go off and murder their caretakers and the people who 267 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: would be their champions, who would help them through whatever 268 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: is going on. If only these children would get the 269 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: help and would get the counseling that they need. So yes, 270 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: I do remember Judge Cook, and I do remember Nicky 271 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: Whitehead today. Especially when I heard this headline, my mind 272 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: just splashed back to twenty ten immediately, and it was awful, 273 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: you know. To Dave mac Sindecate, a talk show host 274 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: reporting with US today, Dave Mac, when you say that 275 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: they were giving her trouble about going to school, just 276 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: imagine a mother of four, raising four children by herself, 277 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: and she's got a twelve year old one fourteen year 278 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: old girl who won't go to school. What are you 279 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: gonna do? Beat them and drag them physically to school? 280 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: And you know, it starts. It starts with small things 281 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: like not wanting to go to school, not doing what 282 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: you asked them to do, not putting away their cell 283 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: phone or their iPad, being insolent back. I don't mean 284 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: just talking back, because every kid's going to do that, 285 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: but just being me not and then it grows, and 286 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: then it grows and then it grows, and I don't 287 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: know what the mom Erica Hall could have done. You know, Nancy, 288 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: when you look at this and I've got four kids, 289 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: and whenever there was one acting out, you could isolate 290 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: and deal with that situation. Here you've got two fourteen 291 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: and twelve and very close in age and teaming up. 292 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: And mom was working third shifts, so she's working all night. 293 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: Would come home, go to bed, expecting the twelve and 294 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: fourteen year old to follow the sixteen year old and 295 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: go to school. But they just flat out and refused. 296 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: They were being incredibly rebellious and then being able to 297 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: team up. But I keep going back to the fact 298 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: that other family members said that she was she was 299 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: talking about having problems with them and was talking about 300 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: needing to get them help. That she was again I 301 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: go back to this one quote she was going to 302 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: send them off. I don't know exactly what that entails. 303 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear more about it, but there was 304 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: obviously a lot going on with the twelve and fourteen 305 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: year old. Nothing is said about having problems with a 306 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: sixteen year old, and so you've got these two that 307 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: are teaming up from gang up on lam Now take 308 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: a listen to WAPTTVS Ross Adams. Fourteen year old Mariana 309 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: Hall and her twelve year old sister are charged in 310 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: connection with the killing of their mother. Deputies found Erica 311 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: Hall unresponsive in the front yard of a house late 312 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: Friday night. Paramedics rushed Hall to a local hospital, where 313 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: she died. Investigators say it looked like Hall was shot 314 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: at least once and stabbed several times. According to witnesses, 315 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: after the girls killed their mom, they dragged her body 316 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: to the other side of the car so that anybody 317 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: driving by wouldn't see it. Investigators say a Mariana Hall 318 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: it has been held in the county jail on one 319 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond, charged as an adult 320 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: with murdering her mom. Hi, Nancy Grace here, have you 321 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: ever Googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work? A crush? 322 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: Fifty seven percent of Americans admitt keeping an eye on 323 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: their own online reputation. Forty six admit to using the 324 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: Internet to look up somebody from their past. But Google 325 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and Facebook the tip of the iceberg when it comes 326 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: to finding personal information. There's an innovative new website called 327 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: truth Finder. It's now revealing the full scoop on millions 328 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: of Americans. Truthfinder can search through hundreds of millions of 329 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: public records in a matter of minutes. Truth Finder members 330 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: can literally begin searching in seconds for sensitive data like 331 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: criminal traffic, arrest records. Before you bring someone new into 332 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: your life and around the people you care for your children, 333 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: consider using truth Finder. What you find may astound you. 334 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: Truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy right away to start 335 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: searching Truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Truthfinder dot com 336 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: forward slash Nancy. Find the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. 337 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: She ran, but in the end she could not hide, 338 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: even with a new hair color. The woman accused of 339 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: running over and killing a local manicurist locked up tonight. 340 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: The FBI tracked Crystal Whipple down to Glendale, Arizona. Nearly 341 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: two weeks later, stories Max Stero joined live outside the 342 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: nail salon where the fatal hit and run happened, with 343 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: reaction from the suspect's family. The story begins right here 344 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: at this Crystal Nail salon on Flamingo Indicator. Earlier in 345 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: the week, Monday, I spoke with Crystal Whipple's cousin, who 346 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: urged her to turn herself in tonight after the arrest. 347 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: I caught up with that cousin. Here's her take. For 348 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: nearly two weeks, detectives were on the hunt for Crystal Whipple, 349 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: shown in this surveillance video scene around the world. She's 350 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: accused of running over and killing Las Vegas manicurist knock 351 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: Annie Wynn after skipping out on a thirty five dollars manicure. 352 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: On Friday, detectives located her outside of Phoenix, Arizona, in 353 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: this Glendale neighborhood, where FBI agents arrested her without incident. 354 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: According to her warrants, authorities arrested Whipple on murder and 355 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: burglary charges this past Monday. Whipple's cousin, Crystal and Harrison 356 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: called for her arrest. She needs to turn herself in, 357 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: come clean. She can't run forever. When Harrison found out 358 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: her cousin was behind bars, a moment of relief set in, 359 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: but then she says a lot of confusion make she 360 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: did get caught, but it just says Aunt barns stride. 361 00:22:53,920 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: She thinks it startbreaking. As Whipple's family deals with these emotions. 362 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: The victims family continues to mourn her nail salon closed 363 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: on Friday in memory of knock Wynn. Speaking on behalf 364 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: of Whipple's family, Harrison at a loss for words as 365 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: she offered their condolences all over thirty five dollars, a 366 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: thirty dollar manny petty. A woman dad, a mother of 367 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: three girls, A single mom who, according to everyone that 368 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: knew her, would go without in order to provide for 369 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: her three girls, working in a Vegas manicure salon fourteen 370 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: to sixteen hours a day, even refusing to take lunch 371 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: breaks or coffee breaks so she wouldn't miss a client. 372 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: She saved every penny and gave that towards her children. 373 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 374 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: being with us. You were hearing from our friends there 375 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: at Action three News in Las Vegas. It's overwhelming to me. 376 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: Out to Ashley Wilcott. The way that this mother, Ashley 377 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: Wilcot with us Atlanta juvenile judge lawyer. You can find 378 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Slaved, literally slaved every day, 379 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: hunched over people's feet and hands. She saved every penny, 380 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: even going without breaks to try to get her three 381 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: girls through college. This one makes me sick. What happened 382 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: to this girl who was the perpetrator, who was the 383 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: criminal who decided to run over? What was she on? 384 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: What had she gone through to think that this was 385 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: acceptable behavior resulting in a death. Let me say something 386 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: about that mother about she did work her fingers to 387 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: the bone. It is not a defense, that is not 388 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: an excuse. But I'm going to say this today's world 389 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: is a little crazy that we live in. The thirty 390 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: five dollars isn't worth it. Don't chase somebody off because 391 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: you just don't know who you're dealing with. You know, 392 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: just the other day to doctor Daniel Bober, joining US 393 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist, said, the banner is the headline is that 394 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: in the last days there's twenty one year old Crystal 395 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: Whipple in Glendale, Arizona, arrested on murder. And you were 396 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at ks n V TV also 397 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: with Whipple's cousin, Crystal and Harrison offering condolences to the family. 398 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: But that mom cannot be replaced, you know, doctor Daniel Bober. 399 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: The other day in traffic, I had the twins in 400 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: the back seat and my husband, my dear who I 401 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: almost said dearly departed husband, but that would be wrong. 402 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: He blew the horn at someone in front of us, 403 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: who didn't, you know, take off when the light turned 404 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: to green. I said, David, do not do that. He said, 405 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna miss the turnline. And I'm like, you know what, 406 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: You're right, and I want to make the turnline too, 407 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: And there was a time I want to sat on 408 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: the horn just like you just did. But you never know. 409 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: You look around in red light. Who around you is 410 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: a convicted felon out on parole or probation. Who who's 411 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: carrying a gun? Who are these people who's having gonna 412 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: have road rage? It's just not worth it. It's just 413 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: not worth it to think this mom of three goes 414 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: out to try to get that fee thirty bucks for 415 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: a manicure. She's in front of Whipple's car and you 416 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: can see it on video, Daniel Boeber and Whipple runs 417 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: her down. What do you make of what? As she 418 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: Willcott just said, it just wasn't worth it. Nancy, you 419 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: know what you're saying is so true. I mean that's 420 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: why a lot of these companies like banks and drug 421 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: stores have you know, do not pursue policies. It's just 422 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: not worth it. And I agree, whether you're sitting in 423 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: traffic and someone cuts you off, it's just not worth 424 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: making us think about it because the next thing you know, 425 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: you could have a gun in your face. Oh, but 426 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: you know, it's just natural instinct. This woman had been 427 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: hunched over her hands or feet for how who knows 428 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: how long? And Whipple goes and tries to pay with 429 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: a credit card. It was declined because it was stolen. 430 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: Let me understand, Dave mc joining me, syndicated talk show host, 431 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: Am I right, I think that the credit card was 432 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: declined the thirty five dollars because it was stolen. Well, 433 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: this Whipple, Crystal Whipple, actually was a con artist and 434 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: an identity thief. She rented the Camaro using false identities 435 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: and a stolen credit card. She made several other purchases 436 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: in the days leading up to the murder by using 437 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: stolen identities, stolen credit cards, and again, as you mentioned, 438 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: the thirty five dollars was declined because that card had 439 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: already been turned in as stolen. She said she was 440 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: going to go out of the car and get more 441 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: money and that's when she took off the three daughters 442 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: of Annie Gin. This is destroyed. These three girls lives forever, forever. 443 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: But doctor Bethany Marshall, people like Crystal Whipple can't help 444 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: but make themselves known. Explain, no, they cannot. The reason 445 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: for that, Nancy is, I think Crystal Whipple falls into 446 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: what we call a cluster B personality. Cluster B is 447 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: when you have several disorders at once. One might be 448 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: bipolar illness. Whenever a patient comes to my office with 449 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: multiple traffic incidents like tickets, DUIs, I always assess for 450 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: bipolar illness because that causes excessive energy, impulsivity, sometimes callousness. 451 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: They have rage attacks on the road. And then what 452 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: clusters what part of cluster B is bipolar and then 453 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: another personality disorder called antisocial personality disorder. And with antisocial 454 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: you get failure to pay back debts to society, So 455 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: that's like not wanting to pay for her bill in 456 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: the salon. You get line conning manipulativeness, so that's walking 457 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: out of the salon saying she's going to pay the bill, 458 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: and then she's not. And then you get that same 459 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: type of impulsivity that you get with bipolar disorder, and 460 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: I imagine that's stepping on the gas, running over the manicurist. 461 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: Although there's a call aspect, there's a very impulsive aspect 462 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: to this too. I mean, I'm sure that this perpetrator 463 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: doesn't really think much about anything she's doing. She's just 464 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: one big kid, you know. She's just running all over 465 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: the place, you know, taking cards, taking cars. This girl 466 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: is just running on the pleasure principle. She's doing whatever 467 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: she wants without thinking about anyone around her. Good morning. Now, 468 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get your full name and data birth for 469 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: the record, please, Christopher Built in eighteen ninety seven, thinking, man, 470 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: you are here on a Warren out of stayed in 471 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: Nevada that was issued on January fourth of twenty nineteen, 472 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: or a homicide? Did you read this information? Yes? Do 473 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: you understand that kies? Do you have any questions? So? 474 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: Have you made a decision whether you want to wave 475 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: extradition or fight extradition? The headline is the woman who 476 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: refused to pay thirty five bucks for a manicure has 477 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 1: been arrested for allegedly running down and killing nail salon 478 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: worker Annie when leaving behind her three daughters. To top 479 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: it off, Dave Max, indicated talk show host. She goes 480 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: on the run. She doesn't even stop when she runs 481 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: Annie down. She goes on the run for weeks, dyes 482 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: her hair, tries to elude police. You know, she took off, 483 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: she ditched the rental car and then headed off. As 484 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, she dyed her hair, changed her appearance, 485 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: and was caught in Maricopa County, Arizona. No telling where 486 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: she was actually headed. But even when she was caught, 487 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: she still had stolen credit cards and other identification on her. 488 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: You know, Karen Smith joining me, renowned for insuccess part 489 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: out of the floor to jurisdiction. You know, we can 490 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: say things to juries, we can report things on air, 491 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: but this video I can hardly even stand to look 492 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: at it, and I'm sure a jury is going to 493 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: have the same reaction. You see, Annie went running out 494 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: and waving hey, wait, wait, wait wait, you gotta pay, 495 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: you gotta pay, and she gets it. She's walking in 496 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: front of this stolen car. It's rental as she got 497 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: under a fake ID, stolen and the woman runs her 498 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: down and in that moment there goes her life and 499 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: really the lives of her three daughters explode. How valuable 500 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: is that video evidence, Karen Smith? It is invaluable, and 501 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: it is going to be difficult for the jury to watch. 502 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: And they're going to have to watch it not only 503 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, but they're probably going to watch it 504 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: again in deliberations, and it's painful. I've had videos that 505 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: jurors have had to watch. I've had jurors vomit in 506 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: the courtroom watching video of a man gets stabbed. It 507 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: is not easy, and I don't envy them at all, 508 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, Karen Smith, forensics expert. For a person to 509 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: be dragged to their death, that is a horrible, horrible death. 510 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: Her clothes or something must have been caught up in 511 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: the tire. I don't know what, because certainly she would 512 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: have let go. She was dragged across that asphalt parking 513 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: lot to her death. And I've looked at the video, Karen, 514 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: and I every time I stop, I have to stop 515 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: the video because I know that lady knock Annie, Aunt 516 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: Annie is suffering excruciating pain, excruciating pain to be dragged 517 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: to her death, and all over a thirty five dollar manicure. 518 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean, Karen, what does a person live through to 519 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: be dragged to their death. Well, you know, it's it's 520 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: it's difficult to talk about. You know. The official cause 521 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: of death was multiple blunt force injuries and that's not 522 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: surprising considering what happened. I watched the video as well. 523 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: And you know what, Nancy, when you have these cases, 524 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you fall into a routine, but when 525 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: you get a case like this, it hits you really hard. 526 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: When you're an investigator. And I'll tell you what, when 527 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: you have something like this and you see it at 528 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: the scene, you have to distance yourself at the time. 529 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: But I can guarantee you that every single investigator that 530 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: worked that crime took it home with them that night 531 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: and it's going to stick with them for a long 532 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: long time. To Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor joining us along 533 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: with Karen Smith, forensics expert doctor Bethany Marshall, Kenya Johnson, 534 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: it is a hit and run. We don't have to 535 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: do a backband in order to come up with a felony. 536 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: That is a felony. But this woman has a history. 537 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: In fact, she was in a stolen rental car at 538 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: the time she did this. Absolutely, and all of that 539 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: information will come out in her subsequent prosecution. That video 540 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: is going to be a very telling and very hard 541 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: for the jury to watch, but they will see with 542 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: their own eyes that her co workers and family ran out. 543 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: Everyone was screaming, there was a big commotion, and Whipple 544 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: kept driving. She didn't stop, then she abandoned the vehicle. Afterwards, 545 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: to her actions before using the fake card or the 546 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: car that wouldn't pay, and then saying she's going after 547 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: her car, the fact that she ran over this victim 548 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: and the fact that she fled afterward will all come 549 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: out to show a continuing crime free and goes toward 550 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: her either premeditation or hurt intent to hurt someone in 551 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: committ a clan that day, I want you to take 552 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: a listen to our friend, Hey, Katie Envy my society 553 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: speaking to Annie's daughters. It's probably gonna affect us every 554 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: day for most of our lives. And Trent is the 555 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: oldest sibling. The three sisters are leaning on each other 556 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: like never before. When you look closely at each of 557 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: their faces and Anna and Christie, you can see the 558 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: resemblance to their mom. Knock you, NuGen. If God felt 559 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: that is time for my mom to go. Then it's 560 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: time for her to go. You know, it's all in 561 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: God's hand and on God's will and is nothing we 562 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: can do or say to change that. Does the girls 563 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: wait for justice. They're choosing to accept what's happened and 564 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: look for the good. And so they want to say 565 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: thank you every words, hugs, gifts. It matter to us 566 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: and we can't express how we feel through words, and 567 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: we just want to say thank you everyone for the support. 568 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: To my longtime friend and colleague, doctor Bethany Marshall joining 569 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: me out of LA renowned LA psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, We've 570 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: been through a lot together and you know what I 571 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: went through to have the twins and raise them right, 572 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: I'm still trying every single day to do the right 573 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: thing all day, every day, doctor Bethany. I cannot. I 574 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: think I might just break down in tears right now. 575 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: A single mom raising three teen girls. How hard is that? Teens? 576 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: Especially Nancy. I actually had a memory about you the 577 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: other day, which is about a week ago. I was 578 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: thinking about when I went to New York City and 579 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: I was on the set of I Think it was 580 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: True TV and you wrote something on a piece of 581 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: paper and you scribbled it down, and you shoved it 582 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: across the the anchor desk at me, and it said, 583 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm pregnant with twins exclamation mark. And you wanted me 584 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: to know, and nobody else knew, and you couldn't say 585 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: it because you were miked up and nobody knew. And 586 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: I was so blown away and honored that you let 587 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: me know and the look of excitement on your face. 588 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that a week ago, and 589 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: then when I was reading about this manicurist, one of 590 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: the things that her family and friends said is that 591 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: she never kept a gift for herself. She always passed 592 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: gifts along to her daughters because everything she did was 593 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: for them. She wanted to send them to school, she 594 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that they got their college educations. 595 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: And she was a manicurist. So that thirty five dollars 596 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: fee that this perpetrator ran out the door and didn't pay. 597 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: You know, some of us might think, well, why you 598 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: lose your life over thirty five dollars, Well, thirty five 599 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: dollars meant a lot to this person because she was 600 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: single and raising three girls. And it's so tragic that 601 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: this perpetrator came in and exploited the life and heart 602 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 1: of a mom. I mean, that is just so tragic, 603 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's what you were asking about and 604 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: trying to point to. It's just it's a bedrock of 605 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: his story and it's so sad. Take a listen to 606 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: our friend, Hey, Katie V. Law Society. After thirteen days 607 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: on the run, police finally taking her head. The manhunt 608 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: for the twenty one year old woman accused of killing 609 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: a Las Vegas mother of three is finally over. Whipple's 610 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: family says a citizen spotted and recognized her nearly three 611 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: hundred miles away. People in the city of Glendale, Arizona. 612 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: Stunt that someone was so observant, especially since Whipple looks 613 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: so different now compared to that old muck shot released 614 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: by police to news outlets across the country. Whoever found it, 615 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: I mean, good for them that they picked it up, 616 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: picked up on the last to past news reports and 617 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: all that. That's pretty cool. The FBI's Violent Crime task 618 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: for immediately moving in arresting her without incident. As Whipple 619 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: sits locked up in the Maricopa County jail awaiting extradition, 620 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: so many questions remain. What allegedly made a twenty one 621 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,439 Speaker 1: year old kill to avoid paying for such a small bill. 622 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: That's right. You can run, but you can't hide. Whipple 623 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,959 Speaker 1: now in custody. If you have information that could aid 624 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: the state in this prosecution, please dial seven zero two 625 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: eight two eight three five two one seven o two 626 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: eight two eight three five two one Nancy Grace Crime Story. 627 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: Signing off, Goodbye, Fred