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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and President Biden has announced his twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four run. We have the show of shows today. First,

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Speaker 1: we'll be joined by Congressman Jamal Bowman, who will talk

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Speaker 1: to us about how a United Democratic Party can win.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to the New York Times Jim.

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Speaker 1: Rutenberg about Tucker Carlson's abrupt firing at Fox News.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the host of On.

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Speaker 1: And Pivot, the one the only Cara Switcher. So welcome back,

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Speaker 1: Caro Switscher.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you. Can you just give us

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Speaker 1: the TLDR on what you think is happening right now

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Speaker 1: with Elon Muskat Twitter.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea, that's it, that's it. How would

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Speaker 3: I put it? It's chaos, Phil, I don't have any idea.

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Speaker 3: I think it's being run sort of by the seat

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Speaker 3: of his pants and things he's deciding, and I think they're,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're rolling out stuff and then they don't

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Speaker 3: actually know what they're doing and they don't have any

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Speaker 3: real marketing or PR or anything else that most product

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Speaker 3: rollouts include for good reason most of the time, so

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Speaker 3: maybe sometimes excessive. So they're just slapping up whatever they

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Speaker 3: can and it's not working.

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Speaker 1: The thing with the check marks, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: going to be something that business school classes are going

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Speaker 1: to staty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if we can get the truth of what happened, right,

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Speaker 3: That's the thing is I think the people running this thing,

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Speaker 3: it feels like cousin Greg is running it, and there's

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Speaker 3: a musk cousin in there. There's I'm sure he's very nice,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I think one of the problems is

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Speaker 3: is that they don't These people don't have any media experience.

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Speaker 3: They're really good at rockets and cars, which is a

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Speaker 3: very difficult and different thing, but media, this is a

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Speaker 3: media business essentially, and so you can't really offer a product,

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Speaker 3: take it away from your heaviest users, and then yell

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Speaker 3: at them for saying I don't want to buy this.

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Speaker 2: I just it's like as if.

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Speaker 3: New Coke said, you know, here's new coke and you're like, no,

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Speaker 3: I like the old coke, and they're like you, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, you have to drink it, and you have

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Speaker 3: to pay for it to drink it or you're in

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Speaker 3: a fan club and they send you fan club teachers

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Speaker 3: or someone you're not a fan of, So you're not

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Speaker 3: a fan of Elon Musk and stuff like that. It's

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Speaker 3: just sort of business Wanner one, and it's kind of fascinating.

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Speaker 3: And numbers don't lie that advertising numbers are down, the

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Speaker 3: usage numbers are allegedly down. He would dispute it, but

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Speaker 3: many of the outside studies show that he's antagonizing its

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Speaker 3: heaviest users. He's certainly engaging with them, that's good, I guess,

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Speaker 3: but he's engaging by sending, you know, putting up obnoxious

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Speaker 3: pictures or or or accusing them of being jerks, or

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Speaker 3: saying say thank you for the free thing I gave

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Speaker 3: you that I don't want. There's the implications of false

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Speaker 3: endorsement because right now they took my I had mine

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Speaker 3: for a million many years, and when Twitter came to me,

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Speaker 3: I don't even remember it. But they did ask permission

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Speaker 3: to put a blue check on my thing a long

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Speaker 3: time ago, and they were doing it to one for safety,

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Speaker 3: So you know who is who and the other is

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Speaker 3: because it encourages people to use it. This is the

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Speaker 3: real So if you want to engage with her. So

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Speaker 3: it was good all around. There was nothing featury about it.

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Speaker 3: It just was a safety and verification system. And you know,

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Speaker 3: he was like, it's lords and ladies, it's whoever was picked,

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Speaker 3: whoever bugged them, whatever, so he takes them all away,

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Speaker 3: which he did. Mine went away on four twenty and haha.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was hilarious.

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Speaker 3: And then it came back suddenly on the weekend and

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Speaker 3: I don't know why. No one asked me permission, no

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Speaker 3: one told me they were going to do it. I

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Speaker 3: got no emails from them, and then I got all

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Speaker 3: the Twitter Blue features, which I didn't want, like editing

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Speaker 3: and delaying sending tweets and stuff like that. And I

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Speaker 3: had previously bought Twitter Blue and stopped it because I

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Speaker 3: didn't think it was enough stuff, right, it wasn't worth

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Speaker 3: my money. And then it was back. And then if

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Speaker 3: you click down, it says I bought it, but I

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Speaker 3: didn't buy it. You know, it was just the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know what's going on on.

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Speaker 1: What I think is pretty interesting about this fiasco is

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Speaker 1: more just here's this man who is the richest man

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Speaker 1: in the world, arguably, who has really successfully started two

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Speaker 1: huge companies. I mean, you can quibble with and he

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Speaker 1: seems like an open wound to may.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a bit of an open wound. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know he's mad all the time. You know,

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Speaker 3: he may be kidding part of the time, because he

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Speaker 3: does like to do that. But now it's getting a

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Speaker 3: trifle embarrassing, right, Like at some point it's like, how

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Speaker 3: much look at me could you do? Whether it's in

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Speaker 3: jest or because you're you're someone who hasn't been hugged

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Speaker 3: enough as a child, So I don't know, it's not

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Speaker 3: funny anymore. For sure?

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Speaker 1: Does this undermine some Silicon Valley successes? Right, because here's

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Speaker 1: a man who there the level of unhinged that he

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Speaker 1: is on the internet. Maybe it's performative, maybe it's real,

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Speaker 1: but it is like, as just a person who owns stock,

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Speaker 1: like I would be anxious about this being my CEO.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they are.

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Speaker 3: I think mostly because the stocks have been going down,

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Speaker 3: up and down, but mostly down at Tesla and SpaceX's

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Speaker 3: privately owned, very valuable property, so that doesn't really get affected,

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Speaker 3: you know, I guess I don't think any of it.

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Speaker 3: He thinks he represents anybody. One of the things about

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Speaker 3: Elon is he used to be somewhat funny, right, So

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Speaker 3: it was funny, but it was like a tenth of it, right,

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Speaker 3: a tenth of what he's doing now, and somewhat was obnoxious.

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Speaker 3: And now it's all like one hundred percent. So I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of people are like, yeah, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what did you do today? You know, I literally just

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Speaker 3: was talking to my son and I go I got

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Speaker 3: to go on and talk about Elon. He's like, what

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Speaker 3: did you do today? He doesn't even know, like he

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Speaker 3: doesn't care. He's someone who admired him right by the way,

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Speaker 3: and is now he seems like an asshole mom that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So I remember touring Tesla in twenty fifteen and thinking like,

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Speaker 1: this is really cool what this guy's doing.

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Speaker 3: It is really cool.

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Speaker 2: It is really cool.

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Speaker 3: And then he's also you know, there's other competitors coming

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Speaker 3: up in that area, and that's going to change that.

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Speaker 3: That landscape is still you know, the top one, but

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Speaker 3: it doesn't mean you're going to stay on top. And

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Speaker 3: then the second thing is government's relying on SpaceX and

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Speaker 3: it's a really tough business. As you saw with one

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Speaker 3: of the rockets blowing up, which happened with previous rockets.

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Speaker 3: It's not a fresh horror for them. It's something that

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Speaker 3: they probably expected on some level. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: he's still got to focus on things that are really

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Speaker 3: hard like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean there are some like larger environmental

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Speaker 1: anxiety too around that rocket.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, environmental meaning it dropped and it makes a mess.

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Speaker 3: All rockets make it us.

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Speaker 1: There's some question of the particles and where they're going

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Speaker 1: and where they're.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know all rockets are like that

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Speaker 3: he's putting. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: I'm blame that on Elon.

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Speaker 1: He is particularly particles right now.

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Speaker 2: It's true, it's true.

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Speaker 3: No, you know, he's doing it for the US government.

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Speaker 3: He's putting up satellites and things like that, right, and

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Speaker 3: commercial people. But he's doing a lot of work for

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Speaker 3: the US government.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the sort of like

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Speaker 1: cottage industry that surrounds him, the sort of David Sachs crew.

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Speaker 1: These are venture capitalists who were not famous before Elon

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Speaker 1: made them famous. They are libertarians, Republicans. Will you sort

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Speaker 1: of explain to our listeners.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they are. I think David sex

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Speaker 3: just backed Robert Kennedy junior. Oh the best you know,

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Speaker 3: and it's making a lot of sort of he's less

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Speaker 3: even less funny than Elon. I'll be watching Fox News

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Speaker 3: drinking a bud light, not like that's where a twelve

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Speaker 3: year old not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: Just I don't know what they are.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they have any ideology of real realness.

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Speaker 3: It's just mad against the world or angry and aggrieved.

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Speaker 3: I think the Party of Aggrievement. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like they're very rich guys. Some

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Speaker 1: are richer than others. None are as rich as as Elon,

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Speaker 1: Oh not even close. No, who have a lot of

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Speaker 1: people around them who have told them they're funny, and

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Speaker 1: now they've decided they're fun.

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Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know. It's just they're a grieved

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Speaker 3: They're angry at someone, whether it's San Francisco and yelling

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Speaker 3: at the cops over that terrible murder that turned out

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Speaker 3: not to be what they said it was. They thought

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Speaker 3: it was a crazy homeless person, it was not. He

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Speaker 3: typically never is right. It usually is someone people know

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Speaker 3: in those kind of situations, And of course it turned

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Speaker 3: out to be different and then they doubled down. Well

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Speaker 3: it could have been like okay, all right, that's enough.

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Speaker 3: Boys like that kind of stuff. You know, I don't

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Speaker 3: think they have any ideology whatsoever. I think they're just

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Speaker 3: aggrieved and they like power, and they like to rant

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Speaker 3: about what's wrong with this world. And you know it's

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Speaker 3: usually liberal left people who are not allowing them to

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Speaker 3: say whatever they want, while they never shut up. So

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Speaker 3: it's kind of an interesting irony in that.

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Speaker 1: So one of the larger issues that Ilan has been

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Speaker 1: pushing is that he can sort of recreate media by

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Speaker 1: you know that you don't need all of those pesky

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Speaker 1: fact checkers, you just need you. I see him champion

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Speaker 1: both sort of Brian Krassenstein, and you know that these

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Speaker 1: sort of these uh you know, Alex Jones types can

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Speaker 1: recreate the media. You don't need the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: What we need is these I mean, watching this, are

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Speaker 1: you just sort of in disbelief?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, venture capitalists there's a Andrees and

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Speaker 3: Horns tried to create a site called future. They close

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Speaker 3: the media be hard you, I mean like I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: and it's not very lucrative, so most people just buy

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Speaker 3: it like Jeff Bezos, right right, Mark Bennioff or Louren

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Speaker 3: Powell jobs that kind of stuff that exists. But you

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Speaker 3: know whatever, they can try to make their little media work.

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Speaker 3: I suppose, I guess. I mean years ago, I didn't

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Speaker 3: bury Diller and he said, I like a lot of

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Speaker 3: user generated content. I've been a big champion of it,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's great. But he he liken citizen

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Speaker 3: journalism to citizen surgery. He's like, sometimes it works out,

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Speaker 3: which I thought was funny. Let me just say, Elon

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Speaker 3: very Dillar is hysterical at all times, never a bed.

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Speaker 3: He's witty, and witty is what he is. And so, okay,

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Speaker 3: how are you gonna make money? Okay, you're just gonna

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Speaker 3: do it?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: Sounds good, Like.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to say, Like they're not going

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Speaker 2: to beat the.

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Speaker 3: New New York Times. Seems to be doing just fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so don't read it if you don't want to. But

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Speaker 3: it actually is accurate. But if you want to get

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Speaker 3: your news that way, go for it. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You know, you'll see that, you'll see Tucker.

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Speaker 3: Carlson starting something on his own, maybe even back by

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Speaker 3: Elon who knows it's got.

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Speaker 2: To be his first call.

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Speaker 3: I would bet right when you think I have no idea,

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Speaker 3: but if I had to guess, sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like those guys really love to talk about how the

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Speaker 1: media is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're obsessed.

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Speaker 2: They're just grievance. It's the same.

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Speaker 3: It's grievance. They're angry, angry that we don't love them

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Speaker 3: as much as they love themselves.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to say.

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Speaker 3: It's again, I'm like, I'm not I always a couple

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Speaker 3: of them. Someone was like, you're mean to me, which

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Speaker 3: I'm not, Like, it's really not true. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not your mama, and I bet your mama wasn't

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Speaker 3: nice to you either. That's my guess on this situation.

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Speaker 3: And many of them, I'm not their mama. I'm not

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Speaker 3: there to hug them. Yeah, they're just asking questions. That's

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Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson for Lake Tuckle Carlson.

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Speaker 1: What do you see? I mean sort of like this

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Speaker 1: has been this weird tack down turn. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of anxiety about the economy, but you know, still inflationist down.

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Speaker 1: I mean, things are sort of chugging along, chugging along.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll be fine. Trust me.

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Speaker 3: These people are never will never have a hard day

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Speaker 3: in their lives for the rest of their lives. So

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Speaker 3: you know, it's the economies. They'll come back find. This

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Speaker 3: AI stuff is added a lot. You know, cyber Bitcoin

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Speaker 3: didn't work out quite as well as they'd hoped, and

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Speaker 3: now they're like running over to AI and I should

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Speaker 3: Actually it's really important, so they'll always have the next

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Speaker 3: thing they do, you know, even Elon let's do a

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Speaker 3: wait and see. And of course he's starting a company, right.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about AI because I've been

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Speaker 1: in so many staff meetings where people are saying like

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Speaker 1: AI is going to take all our jobs? Is AI

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Speaker 1: going to take all our jobs? No, okay, thank you.

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Speaker 3: It's been around for a while, by the way. Just

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Speaker 3: there's been really some new interesting advances and some applications

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Speaker 3: that are really interesting, and you should try it.

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Speaker 2: Use it.

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Speaker 1: See what you use it for, Like AI bot that

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Speaker 1: follows me around to my zooms.

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Speaker 2: Oh really it's very bad, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's probably bad, but some of them are going

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Speaker 3: to get better. You can ask it for like give

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Speaker 3: me a keto dinner, and it really does give you

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Speaker 3: a good recipe, right, But it's like Google on steroids,

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Speaker 3: but except with Google you have to search and then

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Speaker 3: you get the link, and then you go to the

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Speaker 3: link and you might not find what you want. This

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Speaker 3: one will yield you exactly what you want. You could

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Speaker 3: think of all kinds of things. Give me a summary

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Speaker 3: of this book, give me you know whatever you want,

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Speaker 3: give me a thank you note in the style of Shakespeare,

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Speaker 3: give me a you know whatever, like whatever you want,

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Speaker 3: and it can do it. I think it's just sort

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Speaker 3: of like a spreadsheet for text, so way I would

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Speaker 3: put it online spreadsheet for text. They're gonna abuse it.

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Speaker 3: There's gonna be fakes. You've already seen a bunch of

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Speaker 3: them already. There's copyright issues out the ying and the yang,

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Speaker 3: so that's that's something they need to be concerned about.

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Speaker 3: It's a little more closer to YouTube than it is

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Speaker 3: to Google, but it's sort of in a meshing of

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Speaker 3: the two. So there's copyright issues for sure.

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Speaker 2: You know, there could be fakes, all.

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Speaker 3: Kinds of fake stuff, like, but it's just it's just

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Speaker 3: more fake than the fake Internet part. Like, so the Internet,

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Speaker 3: you've already seen it, you know, on the Internet, on

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Speaker 3: Facebook or whatever, and so you're just gonna see more

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Speaker 3: of it, better, faster, that kind of stuff, and so

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Speaker 3: you know, they could they could fake your voice, they

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Speaker 3: can fake you know, you saw that Drake thing, the

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Speaker 3: Dreak weekend thing that was kind of it was cool

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Speaker 3: and also like oh copyright, Oh what who's this? And

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Speaker 3: so there's going to be a lot of technology saying

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Speaker 3: if this is the real thing too, that there's an

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Speaker 3: opportunity there. So there's that kind of stuff, But in general, no,

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Speaker 3: I think it could be. Really it's just an advancement

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Speaker 3: of the Internet as it is today in a much

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Speaker 3: easier to use and intuitive way.

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Speaker 1: So what is the thing that's keeping you up at night?

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Speaker 3: People using AI? You know, people are always keeping me

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Speaker 3: up at night. Anyone who gets their hands on these

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Speaker 3: tools and can think of a nefarious way to use it.

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Speaker 3: I'm not particularly scared of the technology, but it's how

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Speaker 3: people use it, and so the people who are going

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Speaker 3: to use and abuse it make me worried, and especially

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Speaker 3: because many of them are thoughtless, some of them are

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Speaker 3: bad like bad people, and some of them don't realize

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Speaker 3: what they're making, right, so they don't the implications of

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Speaker 3: what they're making. So people have always bothered me, you know,

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Speaker 3: not any you know, I'm not scared of a car.

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Speaker 3: I'm scared of a teenager in a car, right, So

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Speaker 3: that's what bothers me. The other thing is the creeping

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Speaker 3: authoritarianism again people and the use of these tools to

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Speaker 3: get to those places. Obviously, anyone not worried about climate

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Speaker 3: change isn't hasn't got their heads screwed on, right, right, Really,

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Speaker 3: it's just we're headed for some really rough times. And

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Speaker 3: of course, because we're people, were will adapt to it.

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Speaker 3: We're like, oh yeah, well we don't have mountains anymore.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, right, they were nice that kind of thing,

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Speaker 3: like whatever trees, remember trees, that kind of thing. Yeah, like,

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Speaker 3: will totally adapt, totally adapt because we're cockroaches.

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Speaker 1: You and I both have lots of children, and I

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Speaker 1: think of you as very involved in their upbringings, and

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Speaker 1: that's how I feel. I am too, And it is

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Speaker 1: very hard to have children and to not be extremely

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Speaker 1: concerned about where this is all Cai.

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Speaker 3: Yep, I agree. At the same time, when I was

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Speaker 3: remember when you were a kid, we're probably around the

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Speaker 3: same age with you know, the seventies, everything was going

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Speaker 3: to go off, The earth was going to collapse, and

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Speaker 3: there was that commercial the Native American guy crying. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was always Eco day, and you know, there's always something,

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Speaker 3: but this We're at a very severe spot for the climate,

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Speaker 3: and I think I'm really interested in climate change tech

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Speaker 3: and the things we could do to mitigate what's coming

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Speaker 3: for us. And it's coming for us just like it should, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because of the way we've abused the planet. At the

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Speaker 3: same time, I worry about people who are denying it, like, right,

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Speaker 3: it's not that bad. I'm like, oh, it's going to

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Speaker 3: be bad. I mean that will be real bad.

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Speaker 1: The thing that's sort of shocking to me is like,

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Speaker 1: you would think a pandemic would cause people to embrace science,

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Speaker 1: but in fact, what's happened has there's been just a

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Speaker 1: radical anti science movement?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well Robert Kennedy Junior vote for him, Please don't,

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Speaker 3: please don't. What happened to that family? Oh yeah, imagine

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Speaker 3: his dad would probably be like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 4: What the fuck?

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Speaker 2: They talk?

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Speaker 3: The Boston accent.

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Speaker 2: Caris Wishard.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 3: This is great, no problem.

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Speaker 1: Jamal Bowman represents New York's sixteenth District. Welcome to you,

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Speaker 1: fast Politics. Representative Bowmen, Hello, good morning, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: We're so delighted to have you.

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Speaker 2: And so I want to ask you first.

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Speaker 1: About this really interesting thing that happened.

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Speaker 2: With you and the whether you and a bunch of New.

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Speaker 1: York members of Congress and our governor, this House Democrats

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Speaker 1: pressure hocal on climate built. Can you talk to us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we just want the governor to go as

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Speaker 2: big as possible on climate legislation so that we can

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Speaker 2: continue to push back aggressively against climate change. So this

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Speaker 2: is about New York public power and the building public

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Speaker 2: renewables at and making sure that we have strong labor

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Speaker 2: protections and lead and put the people in a position

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Speaker 2: to control the climate legislation and the development of climate

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Speaker 2: technology as we go forward. So just wanted to give

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Speaker 2: the governor a little nudge in that direction. Fossil fuel

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Speaker 2: companies and the fossil fuel infrastructure that's in place has

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Speaker 2: been in place for a number of years, and they're

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Speaker 2: very aggressive in pushing back against our transition to clean,

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Speaker 2: green renewable energy. And this is just all about putting

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Speaker 2: the power of clean green renewable energy in the hands

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Speaker 2: of the public. It would lower utility costs, and it

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Speaker 2: would take us off out of dependency on fossil fuel.

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Speaker 2: So that was the key there. We just wanted to

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Speaker 2: give her a little nudge.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems really valuable. And as a New

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Speaker 1: York resident myself, it does seem like our governor does

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Speaker 1: not necessarily reflect the values of our bright blue state.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes. Yeah, in many ways she does, but in other

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Speaker 2: ways it's just tough because there are entrenched operates, fossil fuel,

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Speaker 2: healthcare lobbies that are in place that have a huge

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Speaker 2: print in New York State politics. Yeah, and the governor

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Speaker 2: has to consistently juggle being responsive to them in comparisons

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Speaker 2: to being responsive to the people of New York State.

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Speaker 2: And of course, in my opinion, she should first and

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Speaker 2: foremost be responsive to the people of New York State

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Speaker 2: and be a leader in transitioning off of this corporate driven,

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Speaker 2: fossil fuel dependent infrastructure that's in place. So we just

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Speaker 2: want to help her do that and support her in

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Speaker 2: doing that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that seems really important. And one of those

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Speaker 1: things that was particularly frustrating to me as a constituent

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Speaker 1: was really Democrats lost the House because of Clomo's redistricting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a big part of it. Many have argued,

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Speaker 2: and I I'm in that camp. It's never one answer, right,

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Speaker 2: It's a complicated question. So Clomo's redistricting decisions ten years ago, well,

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Speaker 2: excuse me, his decsions regarding Judge Is many years ago,

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Speaker 2: impacted the redistricting process this year. But in addition to that,

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Speaker 2: you know, we didn't run a strong, comprehensive United Democratic

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Speaker 2: campaign in New York State. You know, you had you know,

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Speaker 2: the governor over here, Jjobs over here, and then everybody

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Speaker 2: else sort of running individual campaigns when thereas Lee Selden

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Speaker 2: ran a strong campaign for a Republican state wide. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he and the party, supported by the mainstream news media,

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Speaker 2: you know, continuing to push out prime crime, prime prime

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Speaker 2: crime and falsely blaming it on bail reform. That narrative

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Speaker 2: caught hold. And so we were weakened by our disunity.

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Speaker 2: And I hope we learned from that experience going into

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think J. Jacobs hasn't resigned.

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Speaker 2: Because he's too proud and he has too much of

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Speaker 2: an ego, and he's been a privileged white man from

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Speaker 2: a large part of his life, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: when you move from a place of privilege to a

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Speaker 2: place of equity and equality, you know that's going to

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Speaker 2: be a tough transition for many people. And plus because

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Speaker 2: of his pride, and I would argue his hubrists. You know,

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Speaker 2: whatever he's asked about the struggles in New York State,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't take any accountability. He always blames progressives and

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Speaker 2: the Party to the left and all of that. And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, listen, the Party can't move to the left

434
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 2: unless the people move us to the left. You can't

435
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 2: just arbitrarily move somewhere without the people. You need the

436
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: people to support you in that move. So if the

437
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 2: Party has moved to the left, it's because the people

438
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 2: have moved to the left, and the people want more

439
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: than a big money in politics and poverty that persists,

440
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: and underfunded schools and lack of job. People want more

441
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: than that. And so it's on Jay Jacobs to either

442
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: move to the left if you want to use that language,

443
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 2: or move on into another career.

444
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: But the thing about Jay Jacobs is, and this is

445
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: a larger problem in establishment politics more generally, is they

446
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: desperately want to punch left. But the reality is what

447
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: happened in the twenty twenty two election was a failure

448
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: on the most sort of micro level of just like

449
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: them not campaigning and him not doing his job. I mean,

450
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: you can blame whoever you want, but you know he

451
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: had the job.

452
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean he he the cham's the state

453
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: Democratic Party, Yeah, and a state that is blue, we

454
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 2: are a democratic state, lost four congressional seats and as

455
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: a result, we lost the House. That's the bottom line

456
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 2: of it. And so whether it's Governor Hulkell letting him

457
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 2: go or him resigning, I believe that chain needs to

458
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: be made because now as we as grassroots organizers that

459
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: we on the progressive side, as we try to do

460
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: the work that we need to do for twenty twenty four,

461
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 2: someone like him being in that position makes it more

462
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: difficult as he continues to push back against what we're

463
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: trying to do or not work with us. If he

464
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: were to work with us and we were to work together,

465
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 2: we can do something transformational. But again it's the it's

466
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: the arrogance and istic shibris where you think, I mean,

467
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: how can you be in any leadership position and think

468
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: that you are always correct, that you are the one

469
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 2: that has all the answers, and you, you know it

470
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: must have been someone else, It wasn't you. I mean,

471
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: that's not leadership. That's actually the weakest form of leadership.

472
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: And as a party, we don't have we don't have

473
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: the luxury to be weak right now. The country needs

474
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: us to be smarter, more strategic, more unified, and obviously stronger.

475
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the guns.

476
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: Because the polling is their millennial generations. These people, they

477
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: don't want to live like this anymore. They want change.

478
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: One of the moments that really went viral was Thomas Massey.

479
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: I would argue, the worst member of Congress. If your

480
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: entire platform is trying to destroy the federal government, perhaps

481
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: you are not a great person to serve in the

482
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: federal government.

483
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: Talk to me about that.

484
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: Republicans love to answer Democrats with this smug we should

485
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: just arm teachers, right, I mean, it's completely it's obvious

486
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: they want they don't trust teachers to pick up books,

487
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: but they want to arm them discuss.

488
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's maddening actually, And you know, I haven't traveled

489
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 2: to every corner of this country. I hope to do

490
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: that one day, but I cannot think that the majority

491
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: of the country wants us to arm teachers. I mean,

492
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 2: that's just not nice, right, I mean, no polling supports this,

493
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: common sense doesn't support it. And for him to say

494
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: that is clearly, you know, a talking point for the NRA,

495
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: Just get more guns into circulation. And what's dangerous about that?

496
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: In his position? In the Republican position by and large

497
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: on this issue is it seems like they're okay with

498
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: collateral damage related to the proliferation of guns, even if

499
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: that collateral damage is six year olds and seven year

500
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 2: olds and eight year olds and nine year olds. I

501
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: know they don't care if that collateral damage is disproportionately

502
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: Black and Latino. I know, because they've allowed gun trafficking

503
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: to continue to proliferate throughout the country. But they're sacrificing

504
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: now our children for the Second Amendment and for the

505
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: NRA and so and this is why that moment went viral.

506
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: But it's it's less about Massy and more about us.

507
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: We have to organize and knock on doors in every corner,

508
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 2: in every crevice of this country so that we can

509
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: get people like Massy out of office, so that we

510
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: can win the seats we need in the Senate and

511
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: hopefully win back to presidency so that we can build

512
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: a magnificent nation for everyone, and right now we don't

513
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: have that. Guns are part of it, and another part

514
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: of it that's not too far removed from guns is

515
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 2: the issue of poverty and inequality, which is something we

516
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: absolutely have to respond to because we can't reach the

517
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: deals of our country unless we do unless we do so.

518
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk about poverty and inequality, because it does

519
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: seem like this younger generation is done with trickle down

520
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: economics and really wants to see real change.

521
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: What do you think that looks like? That looks like

522
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: corporations paying their fair share, which they don't. That looks

523
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: like the wealthy paying their fair share, which they don't.

524
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: That looks like making it easier for those who live

525
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: in poverty to access the resources that will support them.

526
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: You know, I read something recently where one hundred and

527
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: forty billion dollars is left on the table every year

528
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: just because it's so challenging for those who live in

529
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: poverty to access the resources. That also deals with those

530
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: who avoid taxes. If they stop avoiding taxes at a

531
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: one percent clip, that could raise another one hundred and

532
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: seventy billion dollars, and so that helps to get money

533
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: into people's pockets, right and helps to get them some

534
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: form of self determination and self efficacy. But in addition

535
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: to that, and this is probably even more important than

536
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: just the cash payments in the corporate tax and all

537
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: of that, we need to build a system where unemployment

538
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: is unacceptable, right, where underemployment is unacceptable.

539
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 5: And where we brain in price gouging and corporate greed

540
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 5: and market based economics when it comes to basic needs

541
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 5: like housing should be a human right.

542
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be tied to a market that is up

543
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: and down and all over the place. Housing should be

544
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: a human's right. Tenants need protections. Healthcare should be a

545
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: human right right. The cost of utilities should be three

546
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: percent of one salary, the cost of childcare should be

547
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: free or more than three percent, and the cost of

548
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: housing should be very very low, no more than twenty

549
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: five percent. We argue, so the restructuring of our entire

550
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: economy to deal with the issue of poverty in the

551
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: present and long term.

552
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you one of the most

553
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: successful experiments we saw in the last couple of years

554
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: was the child tax credit, yes, it brought a lot

555
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: of children out of poverty. I think even some Republicans

556
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: would agree that we should not have children who go

557
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: hungry in this country. And you'll notice I say some

558
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: Republicans it expired. I mean, do you think there's a

559
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: world in which that you guys can bring that back?

560
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, if we vote the right people into

561
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: office and the wrong people out of office. For sure.

562
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: I mean, you're so right about the child tax credit.

563
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 2: It lifted fifty percent of the nation out of poverty

564
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: for a year. That year showed us what was possible

565
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: in terms of dealing with this issue of poverty. But

566
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: we allowed it to expire and we didn't take to

567
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: the streets to keep it going. But you're right, like absolutely,

568
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: we need to end child poverty in this country. The

569
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: child tax Credit is part of it. The earned income

570
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: tax credit is part of it. But again, this is

571
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: not about short term fixes. This is about for the

572
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: long haul. And so you know, when you invest in

573
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: our children, whether it's the child tax credit, universal chilcare,

574
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: pre K, paid leave, all these things America doesn't have

575
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: as a wealthiest stational nerve. When you addressed in our children,

576
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: those children will then go on to work amazing jobs,

577
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: to create amazing jobs, and to contribute and grow the

578
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: economy to a place we've never been. That's the kind

579
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: of vision we need for our country.

580
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about universal pre K

581
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: because I am a strong believer in the importance of

582
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: community colleges to your colleges and a like, And I

583
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: was hoping you could talk a little bit about that

584
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: because you know, part of what I think has happened

585
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: is you know, and trade schools.

586
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: I mean, can you talk a little bit about that?

587
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: Of course, I mean I'm a former educator. Actually I'm

588
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: still an educator. I'm always an educator. So education is

589
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: a pillar of any healthy society. It's a pillar, like

590
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: like one of the top pillars, right, education, healthcare, safety, jobs, right,

591
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: like the family. To me, like, those are pillars of

592
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: any healthy society. So when we talk about education, education

593
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: doesn't start in kindergarten. It starts at conception. It starts

594
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: and it doesn't end by the way, right, So you

595
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: and I we are educated every day based on some

596
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: we based on someone we talk to. So when we

597
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: talk about universal pre K, that's a program where once

598
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: your child is three years old, they have access to quality,

599
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: free kindergarten care and education. Right. But see I talk

600
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: about childcare, I'm connecting into the pre K continuum because

601
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: early child education is birth to age eight. So we

602
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: need to make sure we are take care of taking

603
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: care of our children during that time because you know, Molly,

604
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: if we don't and our children experience trauma at that time,

605
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: the brain doesn't develop properly. People don't notice the brain is.

606
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: The growth of the brain is literally stunted by the

607
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: trauma that babies go through between the age of birth

608
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: and age three stunted. So we have to get that

609
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: right now. If we get that right, you know, one

610
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: can argue we can almost be on cruise control through

611
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: k to twelve because they're they're hitting the ground running

612
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: when hit when they hit kindergarten. But to your point

613
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 2: about two year colleges and post secondary opportunities, you know,

614
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: I was sold and my students were sold. You know,

615
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: four year university. Everyone's built for college. Everyone's going to college.

616
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: And the whole college movement. What the colleges do because

617
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: of capitalism, they're waking crisis. They can make crazy profits.

618
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: They got people in the debt and now we're looking

619
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: to cancel student dead Well, we need is ongoing learning

620
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: opportunities that helps communities, particularly marginalized communities, to continuously develop

621
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: skills towards not just employment, employment, but lifelong skills. E

622
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: Colleges are hubs for this. Whole secondary opportunities are hubs

623
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: for this. And the last thing I say is we

624
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to pay to go to college, especially to

625
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: your college. You should be paying us to go because

626
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: guess what when we go, we make the economy better. Right.

627
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: We pay into social security.

628
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: We pay into social security, and you don't have to

629
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: pay as much for jails and prisons and police, and

630
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: you don't have to pay as much for healthcare because

631
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: we have better health outcomes. So you know, you put

632
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: a gun to my head. What's the what area you

633
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: want to focus on? Jamal? I'm going to say education,

634
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: but I'm going to talk about it from cradle to grave.

635
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that there should be a push

636
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: in trade schools because a lot of those trades are

637
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: actually you can make a ton of money.

638
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: Well well, of course, and so first of all, the

639
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: skills that you learn in a trade school are the

640
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: twenty first century skills that you need for the current economy.

641
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: But we talk about a green new deal. We need

642
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: people who are fluent in the technologies of the twenty

643
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: first century. That happens in the tree aid space. That

644
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: happens as we come to hard when we look at

645
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: hardware and when we look at software. That happens when

646
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: we talk about technical skills, and when we talk about

647
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: adaptive skills. And oh, by the way, creativity is a

648
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: central part of this as well. And so and the

649
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: last thing is learning with your hands is the best

650
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: type of learning because you're learning by doing. And we

651
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: have millions of kids across the country, tens of men,

652
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: maybe one hundreds of men who are sitting in classrooms.

653
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: Their heads are buried in books, and what they want

654
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 2: to say is just show me how to do it.

655
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: Do it, and then I'll show you how to do

656
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: it better after you show me how to do it

657
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: it up and work with their hands, which is a

658
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:47,719
Speaker 2: beautiful thing.

659
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: This idea of punching lashed that we see again and again,

660
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: it's just like some kind of floy on the part

661
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: of the right to keep the progressive. I mean, so

662
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: you saying, what is it, Well.

663
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: It's not just the right that's the problem, right right,

664
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: I mean, and the center, it's the center, it's the

665
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: slightly right, and it's the far right. All punching left

666
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 2: not just ont progressive, but go on to the American people,

667
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 2: because like when we talk about housing as a human right,

668
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: universal healthcare, low cost utilities, childcare, fully funding public schools, jobs, reparations,

669
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: immigration reform, these are all of the issues that the

670
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: left is fighting for. And these are all issues that

671
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: pull incredibly well with the American public. And when I

672
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: say incredibly well, I mean well over fifty percent, it's

673
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: up over sixty and over seventy. So to fight against that,

674
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: you're fighting against progress, You're fighting against the American people,

675
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: and it's such a waste of time and energy. You know,

676
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: like you know understand that the left is simply, to

677
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: quote Primelegiz Paul, we are just the first to the

678
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: better ideas anyone. And so you know, IIL, I understand

679
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: there's some things you want to be conservative with, right,

680
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: I get that, But if you're conservative just to protect

681
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: white supremacy at white patriarchy and colonial hegemony in terms

682
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: of foreign policy, we're not going to be supportive of that.

683
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: And when I say we I mean the majority of

684
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: the American people. So it's tough for leadership that can

685
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: lead a new American revolution towards the best version of ourselves.

686
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: And so that's where we need to go. Twenty twenty

687
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: four to twenty twenty eight. M beyond Thank you, Congressman,

688
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: no problem, thank you.

689
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: Jim Rutenberg is a writer at large the New York Times.

690
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: Welcome to Path Politics, Jim, Helloather, We are here and

691
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what is happening in American media.

692
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: Yesterday was kind of shocking.

693
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: Were you shocked?

694
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 4: I was definitely shocked. I will say this, and a

695
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 4: bag of nuts gets you nothing. I always wondered throughout

696
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 4: the whole dominion voting saga, at some point would they

697
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: cut Tucker?

698
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Why?

699
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: He was a lot of trouble his rating, He was

700
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 4: no longer always the number one show.

701
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: Right, the five right was taken over.

702
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 4: Five was taking over. Now we did. My newspaper did

703
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 4: report this week that his ad revenues were very good.

704
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: How is that possible?

705
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 4: I have to say that I was sort of surprised

706
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 4: to see that because he has lost a lot of sponsors,

707
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 4: but he creates turbulent with sponsors. It's clear that he

708
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 4: embarrassed them in dominion. So at what point does the

709
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 4: cost benefit analysis start changing? So I didn't think it

710
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: would happen before there was a trial, and then I

711
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 4: thought it kind of wouldn't happen. The thing I will

712
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 4: say is that after the settlement, I thought, Okay, well,

713
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 4: we'll see whether they really changed, make any major moves,

714
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 4: or make any big changes. And I didn't see it.

715
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 4: Then It's almost like I considered it more earlier than

716
00:36:59,280 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 4: I did after this.

717
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: First, I want to ask you about those text messages

718
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: because so there are a number of theories out there

719
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: about what was the final straw. We may never know,

720
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: we may know who knows, they may never know. I mean,

721
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: it's an unknown as I think it's Don Rumsfeld says

722
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: the known unknowns. But I want to ask you. We

723
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: saw some of the Tucker calls and text messages where

724
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: he was, you know, criticizing the management. But there theoretically

725
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: are more right.

726
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 4: Well, there were some redactive material in all of the material.

727
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 4: There were concerns on the box side about keeping that

728
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 4: stuff redacted highly sensitive, and we do know that as

729
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: well that there's an upcoming on the same vein and well,

730
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,479
Speaker 4: let me rewind the things that weren't redacted. We saw

731
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: some really nasty language about people management. Sure, Sidney Powell,

732
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 4: a really bad word was used by Tucker and they

733
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 4: kind of word where I think my job will be

734
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 4: in jeopardy y if I ever used it that way.

735
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 4: So any reasons in a normal world for this to

736
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 4: have happened far earlier, right, But so we know that exists.

737
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 4: We know that Tucker always used to sort of well,

738
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: we hear this, We purported this. That Tucker was known

739
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 4: to share the support he had from the Murdocks, and

740
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 4: it had been clear over more than a course of

741
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 4: more than a year that that support was flipping, and

742
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 4: there was they were getting a little tired of some

743
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 4: of his antics and his trotting their name out to

744
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 4: justify the antics or survive the antics. So there's a

745
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 4: lot that we can a lot that we know, no

746
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: matter what is in the mix, whatever, if there was

747
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: a precipitating event, we know all of this is at play.

748
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: Right, And then there is another lawsuit, and the.

749
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 4: Other lawsuit by Abby Grosberg, former chief booker for him,

750
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 4: had been a witness in the dominion case because she

751
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 4: had worked for Maria Bartiromo immediately after the election, when

752
00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 4: Maria was pursuing this dominion voting boat switching conspiracy. But

753
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: she is more problematic than maybe some of us appreciated

754
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: who were down in Delaware covering the trial, not for

755
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 4: the obvious reasons that were coming up in Delaware there

756
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 4: she was alleging that her earlier testimony was coerced by Fox,

757
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 4: but more to the point of more evidence of nastiness

758
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 4: and a toxic climate inside Tucker Carlson's offices. And this

759
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 4: is a company that really made some major moves to

760
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 4: try to shed the idea that you know it was

761
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: this ugly locker room frat house. They lost their chief founder,

762
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 4: Roger Ayles, because of sexual harassment allegations. They got rid

763
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 4: of Bill O'Reilly, their biggest star before Tucker Barbier star

764
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: for a far longer time. Bill O'Reilly over over actual

765
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 4: sexual harassment. This is workplace. We don't know the full

766
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 4: extent of what Tucker did or didn't do, but Lochla

767
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 4: Murdoch was part of the cleanup regime and he definitely

768
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: would have no tolerance for this stuff getting out for sure.

769
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: What's interesting, though, is that a lot of people would

770
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: use Tucker's relationship was the young Murdoch as the reason

771
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: why they would not let him go, right, because it

772
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: was always well, Tucker is close with Lochlan.

773
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 4: That is true, but there were sort of smoke signals

774
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 4: I would say, over the past again more than a year,

775
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 4: that Lochlan was not pleased with Tucker trotting him out

776
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: by the way his.

777
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: Support out ooh.

778
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: Interesting.

779
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 4: And also we know that Lachlan, for instance, was among

780
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 4: those of the network who were caught off guard when

781
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 4: Tucker Crossing introduced on his show a promo for his

782
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 4: very controversial streaming special, Patriot Perch.

783
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: How did they not know?

784
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 4: Well, I think that was a question.

785
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: At the time.

786
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 4: So it kind of went to the autonomy and the

787
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 4: independence that Tucker had within the network, which, by the way, oddly,

788
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 4: in very legal and technical terms, that autonomy would have

789
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 4: helped Fox in defamation suit in Delaware, right, because the

790
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 4: case law has it that if you know, if you

791
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: have to prove control. So the Murdoch said, we don't

792
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 4: control these shows. That management could even I imagined and

793
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 4: was expecting this that they would have said, you know, Tucker,

794
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 4: these guys all call their own shots. Well, now they don't.

795
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: I mean, now this is a sign that they're not

796
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: going to let it run that way.

797
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: It's really interesting.

798
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: Now we're all in suppositions, right because Tucker's not talking,

799
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: the Murdochs aren't talking, so you know, we're just sort

800
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: of getting information where we can get it, right.

801
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah?

802
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 4: I mean obviously everybody's reporting a way to try to

803
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 4: get more here, but yes, right at this moment, absolutely correct.

804
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, I mean, do you

805
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: think and again this is my theory, so also completely not.

806
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering how much of like what happened

807
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: with Tucker and also perhaps what happened with Don Lemon,

808
00:41:59,239 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: is that.

809
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: The these guys were really expensive.

810
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 4: Well, definitely in both cases, but no Tucker's case as

811
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 4: long as the investment was worth it. I mean, he

812
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 4: was bringing in much more than his salary and ad revenue,

813
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 4: so that becomes more of a factor if they feel

814
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 4: like he's costing them in other ways.

815
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: Right, the world of cable news is much leaner than

816
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: it was at the time when these men started.

817
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 4: And CNN even more so because box one thing a

818
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 4: secret about Fox is or an open secret, is it

819
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 4: it never It was never CNN in terms of what.

820
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 2: It's meant on editorial.

821
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 4: Right, right, right, So they've always been a bit of

822
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 4: a leaner operation and they make they still make so

823
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 4: much on their cable carriage fees. Right, The cable carriage

824
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 4: fees are huge. By the way, you know, speaks to

825
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 4: Rupert Murdoch sort of risk taking that in the beginning

826
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: of all this, the way they got on cable in

827
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: the first place was they paid these cable systems to

828
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 4: carry them. Now Man reportedly they're going to try to

829
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 4: demand war Still.

830
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think this will hurt them with that

831
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: negotiation because they're negotiating a third of their cable company revenue.

832
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: This might in the law run help them to the

833
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 4: extent that any of those cable systems we're going to say, well,

834
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 4: look how toxic Tucker Carlson.

835
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: Is, right, and now we don't have them.

836
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 4: So way, and those those deals are so shrouded and

837
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: complex and fun fun up leverage. I mean, if you

838
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: remember Direct TV had to stand off with Newsmax off

839
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: the Direct TV and they add leverage to get so,

840
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 4: I don't know, be pretty hard thing to do. Say

841
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 4: for Brian Roberts, of Comcast there in Philadelphia.

842
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: Right to get it Fox off.

843
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 4: Its system, so they have that sort of leverage. But

844
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 4: it's look, it's all matters.

845
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: And Fox wants three dollars a subscriber, which is you know,

846
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean right now, it's the second highest after ESPN,

847
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: which seems insane to me.

848
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, just the fact that we can speculate about it.

849
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 4: Fox doesn't need that. They don't need to have to

850
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 4: worry about an extra X factor in their cable carriage negotiations,

851
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 4: especially we have quart cutting cableish universes breaking, so this

852
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: is a bit for them to squeeze war out of

853
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 4: what they got, and they don't. They definitely did not

854
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 4: need any extra complications. That's just no two ways about that.

855
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: I have a cock eyed optimist take, and I want

856
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: you to tell me where I'm wrong or maybe I'm

857
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 1: not wrong, though I think I really am. The five

858
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: is more popular the five. While there are zelots on

859
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: the five, it tends to be more back and forth

860
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: and less like terrifying monologue about how like you know,

861
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: white nationalist talking points. I'm asking you this question with

862
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: every caveat you can add. Could this possibly be a

863
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: sign that the Maga movement is not getting the same

864
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: kind of juice of Fox News.

865
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: That used to.

866
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 4: It's a hard one because, look, I struggled with this.

867
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 4: I wrote about this last night, and I struggled with

868
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: it because no matter what, Okay, Tucker Carlson being off

869
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 4: their prime time is a walk back and is a

870
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 4: sort of a pulling back from the edge.

871
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: Whether it's intensional, whether they want to.

872
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 4: Nobody had pushed boundaries really ever ugly and false boundaries

873
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 4: the way that Tucker Carlson did often. So that's no

874
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: matter what they have pulled back from that. Now, if

875
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 4: they had like new Cooke, Newtucker right, which could happen,

876
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 4: could do the same thing but not walk into defamation suits.

877
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 4: There's a history of that in conservative media all the

878
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: way back to the old Russia Limbaugh days. He got

879
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 4: his start and away because other conservative new conservative radio

880
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 4: hosts imploded, so went too far in the old Fairness

881
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 4: Doctor days. So whatever gets ratings, as we've been writing,

882
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 4: and as we saw in this dominion case, that is

883
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 4: always going to win. The day where it loses a

884
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 4: day is once it becomes it's no longer worth it.

885
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: I don't want to be predictive, but right, this is

886
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 4: what it is. You can't downplay this is a gigantic change.

887
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 4: And yes, the five is they're hot at show right now,

888
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 4: and it has some semblance of balance.

889
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean for Fox, they were debating screaming

890
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: at Jessica.

891
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 4: Right and you know data Burrito will bring the hammer down. Yeah,

892
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 4: they would have debates during the post election period that

893
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: we've been talking so much about ever since it happened

894
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty. They would debate whether the election was

895
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 4: stolen sometime it's not a topic or.

896
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: Debate, right, good, Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's a very

897
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: good point. So let me ask you another question about

898
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: this weirdness. I mean, so we don't know who replaces him,

899
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: and we don't know if it becomes someone who's worse.

900
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: But do we think that Tucker goes off and streams,

901
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, and becomes the sort of next Russell Lombard?

902
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 2: Now maybe?

903
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, there it's a question of

904
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 4: does he have a noncompete right second, there's a question

905
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 4: would he try to go to Spotify and via Joe Rogan?

906
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 4: Would Spotify have him with a musical acts flip out?

907
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 4: If they did try to have him. Could he do

908
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 4: what Glenn Beck did? There's actually there's an interesting series

909
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: of messages between some of the hosts of Fox complaining

910
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 4: about their news side colleagues BacT checking election fraud conspiracies,

911
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 4: and they're sort of daydreaming, and they talk about Glenn Beck,

912
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 4: who we all think about, right, is he lost his

913
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 4: giant Fox perch. But they're talking about what he has

914
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 4: done is he's built his own subscription based business. They

915
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 4: may not get the numbers that Glen Beck got on

916
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 4: Fox News, but still enough for him to make a

917
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 4: lot of money. So does Tucker start his own thing,

918
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 4: the subscription based.

919
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: Because he did start the Daily Caller.

920
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 4: He did start the Daily Caller. So I highly doubt

921
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 4: we've heard the last of Tucker Carlson. But we also know, okay,

922
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 4: so Glenn Beck's making money. Is Glen Beck the weights

923
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 4: in American politics that he was.

924
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: In that first of a term. I don't think so,

925
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: certainly not so.

926
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: Tuckerlson has been fired from PBS, CNN, MSNBC, and Netfox right, yep.

927
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: One of the things I read was that he has

928
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: that much of his career is based on revenge. Right,

929
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: I mean, do you see like a world in which

930
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: that ends up being the sort of mo I mean again,

931
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: we're just speculating here, of course, sure.

932
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 4: I mean look at what got Box into the most

933
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 4: trouble in the fall of twenty twenty was the anger

934
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 4: that its core viewers had at the network for calling

935
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 4: the state of Arizona for Joe Biden, thus undermining Trump's

936
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 4: attempts to claim he wanted no matter what the outcome was,

937
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: and that anger was really it was very real. It

938
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 4: clearly panicked key people at the network, if not everyone there,

939
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 4: And so that's that's something for Tucker Carls to work

940
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 4: with because those they're still a part of their audience

941
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: or former audience. It's angry because I recently did a

942
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 4: piece for the magazine here that was about Rupert Murdoch's

943
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 4: model of giving the people what they want. And the

944
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 4: problem they add in twenty twenty is what the people

945
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 4: wanted was something Fox was ambivalent about giving them. Ultimately

946
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 4: gave them enough to get them into this crazy lawsuit,

947
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 4: but some people were very angry that they wouldn't give

948
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 4: them everything they wanted, the full fantasy version of the world.

949
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 4: So Tucker could go there and He's so perfectly comfortable, right,

950
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 4: operating in that environment.

951
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: Right. I mean, it's just it is just it's such

952
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: a strange and incredible kind of weirdness.

953
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: Now I want to ask you.

954
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: There were a lot of other media sort of stories yesterday,

955
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: so there was Don Lemon, did that seem like a surprise?

956
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 4: The timing was surprising to me because I thought to

957
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 4: Don Lemon, if you recall made these awful comments about

958
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 4: Nikki Haley, like just so offensive that well, she's not

959
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 4: a prime women to be in the prime you know,

960
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 4: camp be or whatever, I don't evenre so ridiculous and

961
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 4: that's it. And I thought, well, you know, traditionally and

962
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 4: the world is changing, but I grew up covering television

963
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 4: as a reporter that the morning television audience is women

964
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 4: in the age group that you offended. So I was like,

965
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 4: how could they on earth Hold on day and we've

966
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 4: seen people brings more?

967
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 2: But they did.

968
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 4: But I cast it in today's paper as you know, look,

969
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 4: he's very different than Tucker Carlson, but there was that was, Uh,

970
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 4: you can't even compare them. It's just there's no equivalents.

971
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 4: But CNN was making a move away from what its

972
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 4: current leadership under its new president, Chris Lick thought was

973
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 4: a part of rank partisanship up the previous era, the

974
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 4: Trump era, and Don Lemmon was the base of that

975
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: more bative anti Trump nighttime thing. And Don Lemon was

976
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 4: moved to the morning because specifically in part because Chris

977
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 4: licked c andm president wanted to move him out of

978
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 4: that role, and then the morning wasn't clearly not a

979
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 4: great fit, and here we are. So it's sort of

980
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 4: a n and version of pulling back. And that's more

981
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 4: openly what CNN says it's doing. CNN says he might

982
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 4: disagree with what they're doing and whether they really were

983
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 4: partisan or calling balls strikes. You know, some people argued that,

984
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 4: but either way, that's what they see themselves as doing.

985
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 4: In Don Lennon's career in some regard was victim to that.

986
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: There was also Nate Silver is out at ABC. Can

987
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: you talk about that for two seconds?

988
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I guess five point thirty eight is now

989
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 4: owned by Disney ABC, so its founder is out. We're

990
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 4: on his way out apparently, and that's sort of stunning.

991
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 4: I mean, Nate Silver separated from the brand he created,

992
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 4: but you know, he's He's argued he had a great,

993
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 4: perfectly fine midterms. They did have some of their individuals

994
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 4: sort of tracking polls and states. Some have argued, help

995
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 4: help say it, say it. What do you want me

996
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 4: to say?

997
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: I want you to say what we're all thinking about polling.

998
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 4: Well, we've had our debates over the years, Jim.

999
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back.

1000
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 4: I wish him well, and I do appearing No, I

1001
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 4: really do, of course, why not. I wish everyone well,

1002
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 4: of course, but thank you for having me.

1003
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 2: No moment, Jesse Cannon, I drunk fast.

1004
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 5: I hear somebody's got a little file on somebody.

1005
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: It's absolutely the most Fox thing ever, right from the

1006
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: network that brought you Roger al and Bill O'Reilly, two

1007
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: of the worst we hit men media history. There is

1008
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: a story today from our friends at Rolling Stone with

1009
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: eight sources eight that's more than two, three, four, five,

1010
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: six or seven eight sources that says that Arena Braganti,

1011
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: who is a very famous, very famous, very terrifying publicist

1012
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: of Fox News, is probably gonna call me and yell

1013
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: at me after using her name on air. It's like Rumpelstiltskin.

1014
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: She has compiled. This is the reporting and APPO file

1015
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: of Tucker's misdeeds so that she can use it if

1016
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: Tucker tries.

1017
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 2: To hurt the network.

1018
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: I just want to enter this in to the record

1019
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: as our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode

1020
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday

1021
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of

1022
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please

1023
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1024
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.