1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 2: The carnival cruise teen girl, the little cheerleader, we now 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: learn thought for her life, strangled dead a mechanical strangulation. 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: What is that and why no charges? I'm Nancy Grace, 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: being with us. 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: Teen girl Anna dead on a carnival cruise. 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Her body is found stuffed under. 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: A cabin bed, life vests stuffed on top of. 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: Her to hide her dead body. In the last hours, 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 3: Anna Kettner, the. 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: Teen girl cheerleader going to that Titus Little Christian school, 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: already had her future mapped out, very organized, planning to 14 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: join the military and ultimately be a police officer in 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: the K nine unit. 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: That little girl, the one scrubbed in sunshine. 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: Let's see a picture of Anna, please, there you go. 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: That's Santa Keptner. She's dead. 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: Yes, the first photo was her experimenting with blonde hair. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: She's dead, stuffed under a cruise ship bed, wrapped in 21 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: a blanket mummy style we've been told, and then with 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: life jackets crammed on. 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 3: Top of her to hide her body. 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: Listen, Anna Kaepner's death on board a carnival cruise ship 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 4: now ruled a homicide, her autopsy stating she was mechanically 26 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 4: asphyxiated by another person or person's The medical examiner finds 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 4: two bruises on the side of Anna's neck. She may 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 4: have been held in a bar hold, meaning her attacker 29 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 4: held an arm across her neck. 30 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: See her in her little dive shirt. 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: She loved to scuba, she loved to snorkel, she loved 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: to fish, loved being out on the water. 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 3: Joining me at the scene. 34 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: Private investigator Robert Crispin with Christmins Special Investigations, former Federal 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: Task Force for the Department of Justice. 36 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 3: This is the US government. He has worked his entire 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 3: life in this jurisdiction. 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: It is a floating crime scene, and now Robert Crispin 39 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 2: that we learn it was a mechanical strangulation. 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 3: I'm going to go to doctor Kimmel Crowns. 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 2: In just one moment the crime scene, the crime scene 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: when you were living in close quarters with someone sharing 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: a small cramp space, the DNA processing of that scene 44 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: becomes even more vital. I mean, it's like a peachry 45 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: dish of DNA and now it's all gone. Can you 46 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: refresh everyone's recollection about the cruise ship investigators that first 47 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: process that scene. 48 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 5: Well, scary enough. 49 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 6: Those guys aren't crime scene tech guys, and they're not 50 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 6: former law enforcement guys. These are guys who took a 51 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 6: test on the internet, got their license, and all of 52 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 6: a sudden, they're protecting, you know, four thousand. 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 5: People on a cruise ship. 54 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 6: But what's critical about this homicide is going to come 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 6: down to DNA. 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 5: It's going to come down to DNA. 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 6: And what the medical examiner says in the autopsy, the 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 6: cause of death, et cetera, et cetera. More importantly, did 59 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 6: the victim fight DNA under her nails? 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 5: Did she scratch the suspect? 61 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 6: In all of these cases, Nancy, these victims fight for 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 6: their life. 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 5: They're clawing DNA is under their. 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 6: Nails of the suspect who's trying to kill them. This 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 6: is going to be very, very very important, critical evidence 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 6: to go towards and arrest, an indictment or something to 67 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 6: get this guy or rested. 68 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 5: And put in jail. 69 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 6: It's going to take a little bit of time now 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 6: because obviously we don't have a confession, because if we 71 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 6: had a confession, he'd already be in jail. 72 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 5: So the FBI. 73 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: Right there Robert Crispin. 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 2: I heard you referring to cause of death and mod 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: man of death as et cetera, et cetera. 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: Okay. 77 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: I remember reading one of my own transcripts of a trial. 78 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: I tried a felony and I was writing the appeal 79 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: to hold the conviction on appeal. And I must have 80 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: been very, very tired by the end of that trial 81 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: because I was arguing to the judge and I was 82 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: making my legal argument and said and judge blah blah, okay, 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: like you're etcetera, etcetera. 84 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: I know one. 85 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: Person, aside from myself that will take issue with the 86 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 2: cause of death and manner of death being called et cetera, 87 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: et cetera. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief Medical Examiner 88 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: Terran County, host of Hitney podcast Mayhem in the Morgue. 89 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendel Crowns, thank you for being 91 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: with us. Got a lot of questions for you about 92 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: mechanical strangulation. 93 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: What is it. 94 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 7: So? 95 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 8: Mechanical asphyxia is basically some sort of compression on the 96 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 8: chest or neck that makes it impossible for you to breathe. Specifically, 97 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 8: mechanical strangulation, what they're referring to as a bar hold 98 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 8: or chokehold is where the arm is placed across the 99 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 8: front of the neck and then drawn back with the 100 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 8: other arm, impressing your trachea and making it impossible for 101 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 8: you to breathe. The other situation is the crotted sleeperhold, 102 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 8: where they put your neck in the cruck of the 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 8: arm and then compress both sides of your crodit causing 104 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 8: the blood not to flow to your brain and you 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 8: pass out. So either one of those scenarios could be 106 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 8: what they're defining as mechanical asphyxia or mechanical strangul. 107 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand something. You put your arm across 108 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: your neck to demonstrate mechanical strangulation. 109 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 3: But we have learned tonight that. 110 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: Anna had two bruises on the side off her neck, 111 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: not the track, not the front, the side off her neck. 112 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 3: What does that mean? 113 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 8: So it could mean when they're compressing the neck with 114 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 8: the arm, that they're placing pressure with the other arm 115 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 8: along the side of the neck and the arm is 116 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 8: kind of to the side, causing the bruising. It could 117 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 8: also mean that he placed her in a crotted sleeperhold 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 8: and using the cruck of his arm, both sides of 119 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 8: his arm compress on either sides of her neck, compressing 120 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 8: her karated and karatids, and caused her to pass out 121 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 8: and die from lack of blood to her brain. 122 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: You know another thing. 123 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: Let me check with Shannon Butler on this investigative reporter 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: WFTV Channel nine in Florida, who's been on Anna's case 125 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: from the beginning. Shannon, we are being told that while 126 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: the entire autopsy is not complete, specifically toxicology and other 127 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: lab work, that there was no sign of sex attack. 128 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: Have you learned that as well? 129 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 9: Yeah, that's what we understand. I mean, remember, most of 130 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 9: the information that we had been getting came mostly from 131 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 9: family members, but that death certificate, at least preliminary information, 132 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 9: does suggest that that's the case. 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: Dancing, Okay, I'm looking at the death certificate. What part 134 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: of the death certificate tells you there was no sex attack. 135 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 9: Well, the death certificate does not, but information that we've 136 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 9: received from sources from the family members have indicated that 137 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 9: that is not a pace. 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 10: This situation. 139 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: Really really okay, because you refer to the death certificate 140 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: as proving there was no sex attack. And there's not 141 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: one word on this death certificate according that says anything 142 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: about lack of sex attack or sex attack, so it's 143 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: not on the death certificate. So we're getting the no 144 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: sex attack knowledge from the family. 145 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: Is that correct? 146 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 9: The family and from other sources that are close to 147 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 9: this investigation. 148 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 10: But that doesn't mean Okay, we're. 149 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 9: Still a long way from having all of the answers 150 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 9: that we need in this case. And I don't know 151 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 9: that anybody is satisfied with the information that's been released 152 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 9: so far. 153 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: You know, doctor Kendle Crowns, I want to follow up 154 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: on what Shannon Butler just told us from WFTV, Doctor 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: Kendall Crowns. If we don't have the toxicology report, yeah, 156 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: then how am I to believe that we have a 157 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 2: DNA result from a rape kit? 158 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 8: Well, toxicology reports can take up to six to eight weeks, 159 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 8: so you potentially don't have the DNA report back from 160 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 8: a sexual assault kit or a rape kit because there 161 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 8: hasn't been enough time pass. So again, there'd have to 162 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 8: be a little more testing done, a little more stuff 163 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 8: done by the crime labs before it's all back. My 164 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 8: answer to that is maybe there is still DNA out 165 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 8: there waiting to get done and we just don't know 166 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 8: about it yet. 167 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: Dodger Kentle Crowns, how long did you say would tape 168 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: for a talks you for? 169 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 6: It? 170 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: Can't there be a rush on it. 171 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 8: There can be a rush on it, but typically it 172 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 8: can take six to eight weeks depending on what drugs 173 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 8: are on board, Especially if there's some sort of synthetic 174 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 8: or designer drug being looked for, it can take up 175 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 8: to two months. 176 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 3: What do you mean by synthetic or designer Please. 177 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 8: Like synthetic marijuana, bath salts, those kind of designer drugs 178 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 8: that every so often show up that we don't have 179 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 8: a lot of specific testing for. Some more has to 180 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 8: be done every day that the drug chemists are making 181 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 8: new variations on drugs that the toxicology labs are constantly 182 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 8: having to test for to try and keep ahead. 183 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: Of Now another issue straight up to Sydney Suner joining 184 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sidney, the word is getting 185 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: put out that there was no sex attack and that 186 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol did not play a contributing factor in 187 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: her death. We don't even have the talks report. We 188 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: don't have a DNA report, so where is this coming from. 189 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: It's premature. 190 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 7: I agree it's premature. It's coming from family members who 191 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 7: have seen a more detailed death certificate than has been 192 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 7: released to the public. 193 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: But how do we know. 194 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 7: How do they know this information if those reports have 195 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 7: not been made official. There are so many confusing details 196 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 7: about this case. 197 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: Nancy, Yeah, Sidney, I think that people very often they 198 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: project what they want to be true. 199 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 3: There was a lot made at the get go, and 200 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: this is on a court video. 201 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: We have it on video where a civil attorney stated 202 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: that the teens had been drinking. Now Carnival Cruz says, 203 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: oh no, they were absolutely not drinking. But again, Robert Crispin, 204 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: the proof will be in the pudding. Everybody can say 205 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: whatever they want to say right now. No sex attack, 206 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: sex attack, no drugs or alcohol. 207 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: Drugs are alcohol in the system. We don't have any 208 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: of those results. 209 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: And again, remember the bands that everybody wears on cruise ships. 210 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: They will tell it sure whether you I said earlier, 211 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: had a bag of chips much less much less a drink. 212 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: Now, I don't know. 213 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 2: That Carnival Cruise will give a miner a drink. So 214 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 2: it may very well not show up on a risk band. Again, 215 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: they're denying any alcohol was served to a miner, but 216 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: could the miner get the alcohol in another way? Haven't 217 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: you ever driven up to a seven to eleven and 218 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: you see a bunch of teens out there and they're 219 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: paying people or asking people to bring them out beer. 220 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 5: Absolutely, I've seen it. As a matter of fact. 221 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 6: Carnival's blanket statement has to be that Nancy. They can't 222 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 6: come out to the public and say that they serve 223 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 6: miners at sea. 224 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 5: They can't do that. 225 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 6: And any of this information that's coming out is being 226 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 6: released from the family. 227 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 5: And don't forget Nancy. 228 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 6: They had at least twenty four hours before that ship 229 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 6: got back to the port of Miami that that family 230 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 6: was able to get together, concoct their story and see 231 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 6: or decide what they're going to release. They had a 232 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 6: lot of time for family, protect family. And that's why 233 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 6: this family may not want to release that she was 234 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 6: sexually assaulted. 235 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 5: If she was, they didn't want that out there. 236 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: Hey, Crispin, Yeah, I learned that Anna was feeling badly. 237 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: She's felt poorly. 238 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 2: It was because of her braces were hurting her and 239 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: she asked to go back. She asked to go back 240 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: to the room early during dinner. She went back, but 241 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: then she got dressed up and re emerged. And what 242 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 2: we're learning is. 243 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: She had on this cute little outfit. 244 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: But in one report, Crispin, just one, it said Anne 245 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: was wrapped only in a blanket with life Best stuffed 246 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: over her only only in a blanket, which led me 247 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 2: to believe that she was naked under the blanket. 248 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: That's yet to be born out. 249 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: But if that is true, or if she was partially clothed, 250 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: why else would she have been partially clothed, stuffed under 251 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: a twin bed, or naked wrapped in a blanket unless 252 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: there had been a sex attack. 253 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 3: What I'm saying is just because. 254 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: There's not DNA, just because there's not sperm on or 255 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 2: in her. 256 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: Body, does not mean there was not a sex attack. 257 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 5: Correct. 258 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 6: And if you go back and you listen to one 259 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 6: of the statements that was made from Anna's ex boyfriend's 260 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 6: father that the step son had climbed on top of 261 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 6: her one night when she was in bed. 262 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: You know, I know that Project Innocence and the Poverty 263 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: Law Institute and all the defense bars. You're gonna get 264 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: mad when I say this, but they could just chew 265 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: on this. When you don't know a horse, look at 266 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 2: his track record. 267 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 3: Listen. 268 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 11: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to 269 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 11: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do 270 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 11: something to her. 271 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 4: Joshua too, says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was 272 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 4: one sided. The sixteen year old is obsessed with Anna 273 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 4: and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances. He once even 274 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 4: caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the 275 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 4: two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep. 276 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 12: He said that I tried to tell the parents that 277 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 12: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me. 278 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: He's like infatuated, attracted her like crazy. 279 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 10: He's always wanted the dator. 280 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 12: Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole thing is 281 00:14:54,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 12: his fault. If he would have taken the warnings that 282 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 12: Anna's ex boyfriend gave him, then she would still be here. 283 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 12: So keep that in mind, Christopher, I blame you. 284 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: That from Inside Edition and at Just Mom nineteen eighty 285 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 2: four on TikTok, that's Anna's bio mom. 286 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: So explain to me. 287 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: Shannon Butler investigative reporter WFTV. According to what we're learning 288 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: from her ex boyfriend Joshua Too, it's not just what 289 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: she said happened. He was on FaceTime with her. They 290 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: were facetiming late at night. Anna fell asleep, but the 291 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: FaceTime was still going and he, according to reports, saw 292 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: the sixteen year old stepbrother crawl on top of her. 293 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: He saw it. 294 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: It's not just her saying that happened to her, and 295 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: then he goes on to state she did not feel 296 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: safe around him. She was scared to tell anybody because 297 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: she thought he would quote do something to her. 298 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 10: That is what he said to reporters here. 299 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 9: He also told his dad that, and his dad told 300 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 9: reporters that there was always this fear Anna had of 301 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 9: her stepbrother, but it wasn't just something that she talked about. 302 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 9: The boyfriend said he knew about it and then he 303 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 9: saw that when it happened on FaceTime and even said 304 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 9: like get off of her. 305 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 10: So there are a lot of questions about. 306 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 9: Exactly what Anna told him and if that really happened, 307 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 9: but that was his statement to reporters just after she 308 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 9: was found dead on that Christian two. 309 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: Doctor Janey Lacy license like a therapist, CEO of life 310 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: counseling solutions, She's an author, she's a star of her 311 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: own podcast on YouTube, Doctor Janey Lacey, Thank you for 312 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: being with us. Why wouldn't she tell her parents? Why 313 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: did everybody else to know? She was afraid of the 314 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: teens step brother? 315 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, I think this speaks to a larger issue 316 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 13: that I see in blended families, especially sometimes adult minimize 317 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 13: concerning behaviors because acknowledging them, Nancy would mean they have to. 318 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 14: Confront deeper problems in the family structure. 319 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 13: And there's often like this pressure to present this unified, 320 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 13: happy family image. But when children don't feel safe and 321 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 13: their safety doesn't come first, especially when a young woman 322 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 13: says she's uncomfortable when a boyfriend reportedly witnessing an appropriate behavior, 323 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 13: I mean, those things can't be dismissed. 324 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 14: So I would suggest that she probably didn't tell her 325 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 14: parents because of whatever the family dynamics, probably could have 326 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 14: been minimalization, dismissing, or there was no safety there, so 327 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 14: she confided in her boyfriend at the time, and perhaps 328 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 14: of friends. But we see this very common and blended families. 329 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 13: When the picture of the happy family comes before the 330 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 13: safety and the feelings of the children. 331 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: Nancy to Spencer Erinfeld, known as the Cruz Lawyer, that's 332 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: one of his specialties. He's the founder of Aaronfeld Trial Lawyers. 333 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: He's also an author. Spencer's thank you for being with 334 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: us before I take you down the garden path of 335 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: cruise ship law. You had to confront this at some 336 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: point in court. 337 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: One in four women look around you. One in four 338 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 3: women and or girls have been sex assaulted in some way. 339 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: Bam. 340 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 3: Yet we know it's not reported. 341 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: We know that the statistics do not bear out that 342 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 2: it is reported. There is shame attached to it. The 343 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: girl woman thinks it's her fault. Wow, did I leave him? 344 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 9: On? 345 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 3: Was that my fault? 346 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: Society enforces it? Why she out with a short skirt? 347 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 6: On? 348 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: Why she out at a bar by herself? Ad nauseum? 349 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: The victim is always blamed. And I wonder in this 350 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 2: case if this little girl, it goes to this title 351 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: Field Christian School, wants to be a K nine handler. 352 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: That's her aspiration. Was afraid no one would believe her 353 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 2: or even blame her. 354 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: What about it? 355 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 3: Aaron Feld? 356 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 10: Yeah, Unfortunately, it's very true. 357 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 15: Nancy, both men and women, or the victims of sexual 358 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 15: assault are very reluctant to come forward for all the 359 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 15: reasons you just spoke of, the guilt, the shame, the stigma, 360 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 15: and all my years of representing victims of sexual assault 361 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 15: on cruise lines both men and women, that many of 362 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 15: them have been victimized before. This is not the first 363 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 15: time they have been the victim of sexual abuse, so 364 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 15: they have this compounded emotional paralysis that stops them from 365 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 15: reporting it. And Nancy, if they do, the cruise lines, 366 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 15: in my experience, are the least hopeful to them in 367 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 15: getting them the cure they need and preserving the evidence 368 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 15: of these types of assaults, and the cruise lines are 369 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 15: guilty of not reporting them because those reports have to 370 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 15: be on the Department of Transportation website that will list 371 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 15: the number of sexual assaults. 372 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 10: That happened per cruise line per quarter. And if they're 373 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 10: not reported, the cruise lines don't have to report it. 374 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 10: And if they're not reporting. 375 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 2: Enough, my stars, that's an incredible fact. 376 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Gray. 377 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 9: Now. 378 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 2: Earlier, doctor Jenny Lacey was describing how some girls may 379 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 2: not come forward and tell their own family about a 380 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: family member or relative that is assaulting them. She brought 381 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: up that this was a blended family. Well, it's very blended. 382 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: Listen. 383 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 4: By the time Anna is five, Christopher Kaepner is having 384 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 4: an affair with a teenage babysitter. When Tabitha Donna Hugh 385 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 4: turns eighteen, Chris marries her and they have two children together. 386 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 4: Heather has a hard time maintaining a relationship with Anna 387 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 4: due to the bitter divorce with Chris. 388 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: We have reached out to Anna's family, we have not 389 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: heard back, and I want to remind everyone that nobody 390 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: has been charged tonight. And I'm wondering why we are 391 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: told doctor Kendall Crowns that she quote. 392 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 3: Fought for her life. 393 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: How do we know that? 394 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: How could we possibly know that? 395 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 2: Tell me Anna Nutshell, how would we know she quote 396 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: fought for her life? 397 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: There's evidence. 398 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 8: Often with strangulations, the evidence is trying to get the 399 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 8: UH objects off your neck, so you'll see scratch marks 400 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 8: on the neck from the individual's fingernails themselves. You can 401 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 8: also see injuries on the person who is the suspect 402 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 8: suspect in the case as well, scratches on their face, 403 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 8: scratches on their arms. If you see intense particular hemorrhages 404 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 8: or small pinpoint hemorrhages on the face, you know that 405 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 8: the compression may have been released and then brought back, 406 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 8: and it could be that sign of a struggle as 407 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 8: well as well as the bruising on her neck could 408 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 8: be from her thrashing about trying to get the restraint 409 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 8: off her neck. So there's a number of signs that 410 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 8: could show that she fought back to try and get 411 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 8: out of the hold. 412 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: A doctor, Kendlegrounds, You're amazing. You just told me two 413 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: things I hadn't already thought of. You mentioned that if 414 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: the stranglehold him to put. 415 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: On her and then released and she. 416 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: Still kept fighting and it was put back, you're saying 417 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: that that would result in additional particular hemorrhage, which is 418 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: all the stress. You know, when you're wearing, you're getting 419 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: your blood pressure right, and it feels like part of 420 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: your arm is going to blow up because of the pressure. 421 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: It gets so tight, right, That's what happens to your eyes. 422 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 2: The pressure is so tight that the tiny blood vessels 423 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: in your eyes hemorrhage. 424 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 3: They burst, and you see that in asphyxiation. 425 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: Strangulation be manual or ligature or mechanical. So explain to 426 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,719 Speaker 2: me what you were saying. If the pressure had been 427 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: put on your neck, released and put back, what would 428 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: you see as evidence of struggle. 429 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 8: So again, that would be the particular hemorrhages that you're 430 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 8: talking about, the little pinpoint hemorrhages you see in the eye, 431 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 8: but you also see them in the periocular region or 432 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 8: around the eyes as well, can be throughout the face, 433 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 8: the gums. And what happens is it only takes a 434 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 8: little bit of pressure to compress your jugular which is 435 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 8: four point four pounds, and you're crotted, which is eleven 436 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 8: pounds of pressure. And once those are compressed, you do 437 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 8: still have a little bit of vertebral artery circulation coming in. 438 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 8: But what happens when those are released all of a sudden, 439 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 8: that blood comes rushing back into your head. And then 440 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 8: if the compression comes back again, that blood is trapped 441 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 8: second time, and then that can cause the particular hemorrhages 442 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 8: to become more expressed or more pronounced, because you keep 443 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 8: getting that blood flow restored and then compressed, and then 444 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 8: restored and then eventually completely choked off or constricted. And 445 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 8: that's why you'll see more and more bursting of the 446 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 8: hemorrhages because of the blood keeps coming back in and 447 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 8: then getting stopped. 448 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 3: That helped me a. 449 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 2: Lot, But I still have one question regarding what does 450 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: it prove? 451 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 3: Is it primitive? 452 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: Would the original particular images look different than the second 453 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 2: round of particular hemorhages? I mean, can I look at 454 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: her particular images and determine that the pressure had been applied, released, 455 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 2: applied again? 456 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: Could I tell that strictly from the particular hemorrhage alone? 457 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 8: No, No, there would be no way. It's just if 458 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 8: they're really pronounced. Well, I'm telling you the science. But 459 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,239 Speaker 8: if it's really pronounced, you can get an idea that 460 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 8: there's been more blood flow restored. But if there's just 461 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 8: minimal particular hemorrhages that occurred initially, it won't be necessarily different. 462 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 8: It's just that the fact that there's more of them 463 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 8: means that there was more more. 464 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: She said something about thrashing her head back and forth. 465 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: I'm trying to look for evidence proving a struggle because 466 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: we have been told quote, she fought for her lie. 467 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: You mentioned scratches, got it agree? But what did you 468 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 2: say about her. 469 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 3: Thrashing her head? 470 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 2: Back and forth, which would indicate a struggle. How can 471 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: I tell she thrashed. 472 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 8: Put the neck in a carotted sleeper hoole and she 473 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 8: starts pushing against the pressure on her neck that can 474 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 8: cause the bruising. Also internally, when the skin is dissected 475 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 8: up and you look at the neck muscles, you can 476 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 8: see stretching of stretching hemorrhages of the neck muscles from 477 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 8: them trying to pull out of the hold as well, 478 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 8: So you can see that internally like hemorrhages the musculture 479 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 8: that showed that she was violently fighting against the constrictive 480 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 8: process on her neck. 481 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 4: Anna excuses herself from dinner early, not feeling well. Surveillance 482 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 4: footage shows Anna walking back to and entering the room 483 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 4: she shares with her brothers. After eating, The teen boys 484 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 4: come back to the room before the youngest sibling ventures 485 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 4: out again to explore, leaving Anna and their stepbrother alone. 486 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 16: Anna's brother heard a heated argument between them in their 487 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 16: cabin the night before Anna was found dead. He heard 488 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 16: the stepbrother yelling at Anna. The sounds of furniture overturning 489 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 16: and screams from inside the room. 490 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 11: He heard him yelling at her like in a harmful 491 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 11: way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that. 492 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 11: Like something was like banging around and stuff, and like 493 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 11: the chairs were getting thrown around in the room. 494 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: From Inside Edition, there's an investigation conducted by the FBI 495 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: arising out of sudden death of eighteen year old Anna 496 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: kept her The little girl was wrapped Anne and seats, 497 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: possibly a blanket. It was a full twenty four hours 498 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: before her body is found. Anna Kittner, the teen cheerleader, 499 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 2: dead on a carnival cruise ship. The cruise ship insisting 500 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: there was no alcohol serf to teens, but in a 501 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 2: videoed court hearing, a lawyer says they were drinking. 502 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 3: What is the truth? Don't know yet because. 503 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: In the last hours a gag order has been placed. 504 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: In other words, the medical examiner can't speak. Everybody's clamped down. 505 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: Nobody can speak. 506 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 5: Why. 507 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: Why is that? 508 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: That's very very unusual. 509 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: But we're learning a lot because of divorce proceedings. 510 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: Listen. 511 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 17: Court records from stepmom Sean tell Hudson's divorced indicate her 512 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 17: sixteen year old son and his stepbrother may be a 513 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 17: suspect in the teen's murder. The FBI has remained silent. 514 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 17: No charges have been fined. 515 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 2: I would have difficulty in them putting the sixteen year 516 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: old on the stand because I don't want anything done 517 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: that would incriminate the young man. 518 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 3: So I believe what they're saying. 519 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 2: Shannon Butler joining US w FTV on this case from 520 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: the very beginning, joining us out of Florida. You've got 521 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 2: ongoing divorce custody proceedings and and those the mom of 522 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: the teen step brother files any emergency here and saying 523 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: I'm not answering any questions. Nobody's taking the stand because 524 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 2: it could hurt my son's right to a fair trial, 525 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: a fair trial on what obviously the Anna Kepner murder. 526 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 9: Yeah, that was the first we had heard about the 527 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 9: stepbrother being a suspect. We didn't get any of that 528 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 9: from investigators. But then you go into this, you know, 529 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 9: separate court case, and that's how that information was revealed, 530 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 9: and that's what kind of started everybody now asking these questions. 531 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 9: And if you, you know, listen to the family members 532 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 9: about that brother. They talk about how he was very 533 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 9: very distraught over this, how they had to he had 534 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 9: to be hospitalized. 535 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 10: The behavior. 536 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, the teen step 537 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 3: brother was distraught. Distraught, correct, that's what they say. Okay. 538 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: Was he distraught about Anna being dead or about him 539 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 2: being a suspect. 540 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 10: That's still the question. 541 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 9: The family was very very clear that he was very 542 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 9: very upset after this happened and had to be Hospitalizing. 543 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 544 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: Spencer Aaronfeld joining us. The cruise lawyer, he's handled so 545 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: many cruise ship cases, typically for the complainant, the alleged victim, 546 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: not the cruise line. 547 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: He's got to say many. I tried to count them, 548 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 3: couldn't count them. Spencer. 549 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: We were told that the team brother was so distraught 550 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: that he had to go in the hospital. Then he 551 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: was miraculously released from the hospital. 552 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: He wasn't wearing a band aid, he wasn't on crutches. 553 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: Why was he in the hospital? Was that a delay tactic? 554 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: Then we were told he was quote so upset he 555 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: quote couldn't talk to FBI investigators. Sounds a lot to 556 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: me like invoking your right to remain silent. 557 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 10: One hundred percent, Nancy. 558 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 15: And it also destruction of evidence because when he went 559 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 15: to the hospital, I'm sure that he changed his clothes. 560 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 10: What happened to his clothes. 561 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 15: I'm sure he was cleaned, and his fingers and what's 562 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 15: under his nails, and all sorts of things that would 563 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 15: have been invaluable evidence to the investigators and prosecutors in 564 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 15: this case were probably lost by that to the hospital. 565 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 15: It really interrupted the chain of custody of a lot 566 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 15: of evidence that would have been left on him, including 567 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 15: potentially of bodily fluids and things that may have been 568 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 15: on his hands, on his clothes. 569 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: You know, Spencer Ernfield, you are my own personal chamber 570 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: of hers. 571 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 3: I hadn't even thought of that yet. 572 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 2: The fact that he goes straight into a hospital setting 573 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 2: and his clothes could be god knows where, Robert Crispin, 574 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: that's important. I want to see his clothes. I want 575 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 2: to look for microscopic evidence. I'm wanna look for blood. 576 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: I'm wanna look for sperm, i wanna look for her blood. 577 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: And yes, I want to see his underwear. For obvious reasons. 578 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 3: It's probably all. 579 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: Gone, Robert. 580 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 5: It probably is, Nancy. 581 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 6: Hence the long delay before the ship got back to 582 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 6: locking down the crime scene, locking down the people their clothing, 583 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 6: not letting anyone and go anywhere, intermingle, talk to people, 584 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 6: separating everybody. 585 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 5: It's just it's a recipe for disaster. 586 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 6: Those clothes tell investigators and prosecutors and judges and juries 587 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 6: so much information. It's insane, the information that comes out 588 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 6: of just your clothes, or what comes from underneath your fingernail, 589 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 6: or what comes from actually on your body. 590 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 5: Nancy, come on, how many times have. 591 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 6: You known or heard where a fingerprint is actually pulled 592 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 6: from a body somebody else's fingerprint. 593 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 2: Also, because of this court hearing, we hear allegations that 594 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 2: the teams have been drinking. 595 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 3: Is that true? We don't know yet. 596 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 10: Listen, we feel there. 597 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 18: Are some circumstances regarding that the sixteen year old and 598 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 18: the mother's judgment regarding that cruise that would affect you know, 599 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 18: obviously that her ability to care for the my child, 600 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 18: the nine year old. The sixteen year old was allowed 601 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 18: to drink, the teenagers were given their own room in 602 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 18: which to stay. Just a lot of circumstances that showed 603 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 18: that the mother in this case was not exercising appropriate 604 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 18: supervision over this child. 605 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: And of course the cruise ship is vehemently denying that 606 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 2: the teens had alcohol. Of course, the family is stunned. 607 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 2: They've got anna Dad stuffed under a bed. They've got 608 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: the sixteen year old reportedly a target. 609 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: Listen. 610 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 5: He was a good student, played soccer. 611 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 19: He played soccer, very quiet young man. He had demons, 612 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 19: I think in his past and he was trying to 613 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 19: deal with those. 614 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 17: Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner are shocked Ganna's sixteen year old 615 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 17: stepbrother is being eyed as a suspect and their murder. 616 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 17: Describing them as two peas in a pod and very close. 617 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 17: She says the teen was distraught when he learned and 618 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 17: his body was found, and couldn't speak during an initial 619 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 17: interview with FBI agents. Barbara says the teen claims he 620 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 17: can't remember what happened and was hospitalized for psychiatric observation. 621 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 17: When they arrived back in Miami. 622 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 19: He was an emotional mess. He couldn't even speak. He 623 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 19: couldn't believe what had happened. 624 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 2: That from our friends at ABC. Did you hear that 625 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 2: doctor Janey Lacy joining us license psychotherapist. He was an 626 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: emotional mess. He couldn't speak, he couldn't believe what happened. 627 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 2: He was in the room when it happened. According to 628 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence, unless we want to believe she choke, heiled 629 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 2: herself and stuffed herself under the bunk. Tonight, no charges. 630 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 2: What does that mean to you? An emotional mess, couldn't speak, 631 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 2: couldn't believe what happened. 632 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 14: It means a couple of things, Nancy. In that interview 633 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 14: her talking about his demon. 634 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 13: So did the family know that he had some struggles 635 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 13: and they weren't adequately addressed? 636 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 7: And then the. 637 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 13: Critical question to me becomes, then where were the adults. 638 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 13: If they were, where are these demons? And if he's 639 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 13: emotionally distressed in these types of things, right, that can 640 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 13: be a shock, truly a shock, because we do have situations, Nancy, 641 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 13: where when people go into what we would call a 642 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 13: narcissistic type of rage, when they get some type of 643 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 13: rejection or they're not getting the things that they want, 644 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 13: that in that moment, the heightenedness of their emotional regulation 645 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 13: goes and they can have these moments where they kind 646 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 13: of black out, so to speak, and then when they 647 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 13: come to there's a gravity of what has happened to. 648 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 14: In their behaviors in the situation. So you know, it 649 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 14: also could be the consciousness of guilt. 650 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 13: When you have the consciousness of guilt, those emotions can 651 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 13: come on, come on strong. So I would probably say 652 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 13: it's somewhere in those two realms, Nancy. 653 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 3: Then you have the whole other can of worms with 654 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 3: the bio mom. What are we hearing from her? 655 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 12: A never want friend, they call me and get a 656 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 12: hold of me and anything. 657 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 7: When he died, I found. 658 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 5: Out through Google, Heather says. 659 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 17: On top of discovering Anna died through internet searches instead 660 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 17: of her father, captainer also told her she wasn't welcome 661 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 17: at Anna's celebration of life service. She claims Captainer threatened 662 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 17: to have her arrested were a disguise to her own 663 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 17: daughter's memorial so she could say goodbye in peace. Other 664 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 17: is not mentioned in Anna's obituary. 665 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 12: I'm going to put a wig on and wear some 666 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 12: really tall shoes because I'm four foot. 667 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 2: Nine, was too and inside addition, and back out to 668 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: Robert Crispin and private investigator Crispin Special Investigations. 669 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 3: This is his turf. He's joining us from Port of Miami. 670 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 3: Did you hear that the teen. 671 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: Step brother. 672 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,720 Speaker 3: Is too distraught to speak? 673 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 2: First goes into a psychiatric hold, then he comes out 674 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: really quickly. Guess he wasn't that ill now, he's too 675 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 2: upset to talk about what happened in the room for 676 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: he and Anna were alone, and she ends up stuffed 677 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 2: under a twin bed, too upset to speak. He's too 678 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: upset about quote what happened. He also told someone he 679 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 2: couldn't remember what happened. 680 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 3: So what is that? A temporary blackout? 681 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 6: So that's not uncommon they don't remember things. Oh, I 682 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 6: feel so bad. I got to go to the hospital. 683 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 6: I can't I can't believe what happened. I don't remember Nancy. 684 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 6: Go back in the history of this kid. There's reports 685 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 6: out there that. 686 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 5: He's had demons. I want to know what are his demons? 687 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 6: I want to know did those demons come to light 688 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 6: in that cabin with Anna? 689 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: Why do I care about his feelings. I do not 690 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 2: care about his feelings. I care about her dead body, which, 691 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 2: by the way, she's being cremated, so I certainly hope 692 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: they got all the evidence that they needed to get 693 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 2: from her body. But that said, why do I have 694 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 2: to keep hearing about him being upset? 695 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: She's dead? 696 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 5: Oh That's what I'm upset about, not about his. 697 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 6: I understand, but that's very, very important to a prosecutor 698 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 6: in law. Enforcement, because how many times, Nancy, have we 699 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 6: had a suspect who killed someone never went to church 700 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 6: in their life. 701 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 5: They're a suspect, we can't prove. 702 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 6: It yet, and all of a sudden, now they found God. 703 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 6: They go to church every single day. That's a sign. 704 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said what you just said, because 705 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 2: Shannon Butler, investigative reporter WFTV, you heard what Chrispin just said. 706 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 2: The taine has not been charged. Why has a taine 707 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 2: not been charged? That said, he's not even being held 708 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 2: as a suspect. 709 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 3: He is walking free. 710 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 2: He is quote under watched, underwatched by who who's watching him? 711 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 9: Well, that's the frustration from the family and frankly this 712 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 9: community along the coast there, that's the frustration, like when 713 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 9: is something going to happen, When is there going to 714 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 9: be in arrested, When are the answers going to come out? 715 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 9: So much we don't know about this case because the 716 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 9: FBI has not been transparent with their information their investigation, 717 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,720 Speaker 9: which is not unusual for the FBI, But there's lots 718 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 9: of information that still is not out there. We can 719 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 9: only assume that they're building the case and that something 720 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 9: will happen soon, but there is no. 721 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 10: Timeline for that. 722 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 9: We don't know how long we'll be sitting here waiting, 723 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 9: and this family will have to wait for some kind 724 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 9: of answer here. 725 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about Anna's 726 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: murder mechanical strangulation, please call seven five four seven zero 727 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 2: three two thousand, repeat seven five four seven zero three 728 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 2: two thousand. It could be something that you observed, It 729 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 2: could be something your child told you that Anna said. 730 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 3: It could be something the teen boyd If you know 731 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 3: or think you. 732 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 2: Know, please help with this investigation is ongoing and tonight 733 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 2: still no charges. We remember an American Hero Officer, Alex 734 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 2: Sanders Alambra PD, California, just twenty eight, killed in the 735 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 2: line of duty, leaving behind aggrieving fiance American Hero Officer 736 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 2: Alec Sanders Nancy Gray signing off goodbye.