WEBVTT - Galvanize Climate Solutions Co-Founder Tom Steyer Talks Renewable Energy & the Outlook for Energy Under President-Elect Trump 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:06.720 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.799 The current administration, the Biden White House is setting an 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.080 ambitious pledge to cut greenhouse gas emissions over sixty percent 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.400 by twenty thirty five. Now whether that's feasible is obviously 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.160 in question. With Donald Trump said to dissolve US climate regulations. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.120 Tom Sire of Galvani's Climate Solutions writes, twenty twenty five 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.240 is not about climate, It's about energy demand. Renewables should 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.880 be at the center of new energy built, no matter 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.839 your political persuasion, Tom, I'm pleased to say joins us 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.919 now you're excited about the year ahead because of that idea. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.320 I'm curious, have you talked to anyone in the incoming 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:45.920 Trump administration or of that party's persuasion that convinces you 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.320 that they see things similarly. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.000 Well, I haven't talked to anybody directly in the administration. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.839 I've talked to a bunch of Republicans in Congress and 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:57.680 Republicans who are advising the administration. I would say what 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:04.920 I'm seeing is what's driving energy is markets, costs, international competitiveness, 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.320 national security, and those are things. There's going to be 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.160 a lot of political talk. There is a lot of 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.440 political talk, the words drill, baby, driller, you know, renewed 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.840 part of the American conversation. But what we're really seeing 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.080 is the differential in costs. So if you look at 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:23.640 renewables are cheaper. Now, if you're following where natural gas is, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.039 and we're talking a lot about the more demand for 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.919 electricity in the United States and around the world, renewables 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.680 are cheaper. What we're seeing is they're continuing to get 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.240 much cheaper at the same time that natural gas in 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:37.840 the United States. I don't know how closely you guys 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.759 follow it. It was three dollars in eighty six cents 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.200 and mcf this morning. That's almost double where it was. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.680 And in fact, in Europe natural gas is twelve dollars 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.480 in eighty six cents in mcf. So when we talk 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.600 about exporting liquefied natural gas to Europe, it's because we 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.560 want to sell something that we can sell at three 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.400 dollars and eighty six cents for twelve dollars in eighty 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.720 six cents across the pond. Obviously, that's going to push 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.560 the cost of American natural gas up. So when we 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.640 really look at international competitiveness for the United States of 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.320 America in electricity. When we look at it in terms 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.640 of cars, what we can see is the markets, business 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.400 economics are driving us to clean energy. That's where we're going. 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.280 There's nothing political talk can do about it. That's what 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.840 the costs say. That's international competitives. That's how we're going 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:31.080 to win. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.639 Okay, So the cost structure that you believe will make 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.200 the argument for us, which industries are going to make 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.799 that case to the White House, the incoming White House, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.640 because they're looking at the energy industry, the oil production 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.960 and gas companies, and they're saying, you know, we're going 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.639 to move forward. We're going to go explore and look 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.960 for oil in all these different places, the Arctic wherever. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.440 For all the industries, including AI that are demanding electricity, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.720 they're going to want the cheapest electricity because that's what 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.440 it's a huge driver of how they compete internationally. And 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.720 the cheapest electricity is going to be renewable. That's true 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.639 here and it's true around the world. So when we 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.760 talk about the idea about moving back to fossil fuels, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.840 the implication is somehow fossil fuels are cheaper. They're not cheaper, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:21.440 they're already more expensive. In twenty twenty three, eighty six 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.440 percent of new electricity generation in the whole world was renewable. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.160 They weren't doing it to be nice. It's all about 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.720 international competitiveness and national security. The sun is going to 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.400 keep shining, the wind is going to keep blowing, regardless 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.040 of what political people do. So this is something that's 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.080 going to be driven by business decisions, and honestly, I 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.839 think the Trump administration will get behind it because that's 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.760 what's going to drive American competitiveness. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.280 When I talk to Republicans, they say that they just 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.760 want the market to decide and they're above all in 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.800 for all energy across the spectrum. Do you think deregulation 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.840 that this Income administration talks about will help renewables as 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.440 well as much as it's going to help the fossils. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.560 There's no doubt about it. There is no doubt why. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.320 Moving Biden didn't lean into that, and the deregulation. 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.800 Well, I think he did lean into it. But I 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.760 think that this is a difficult problem because it's a 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.479 political problem, and it includes people on the left who 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.679 want to make sure that everything we do in terms 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.279 of sighting and permitting is done perfectly. I think that 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.680 the Trump administration, because they really want to permit new 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.320 oil and gas drilling, are going to be pushing for 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.200 faster permits and lower oversight. And I think that if 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.599 that goes, including to renewables, what we're going to see 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:43.240 is an explosion of low cost, abundant renewable energy. That's 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:43.960 what we're going to see. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.080 You say the US is short energy next year. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.360 How how is that true? 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.240 Yeah, We're the biggest crude producer in the entire world. 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.720 We have an abundance. We're an exporterer. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.360 So if you look at so let's talk about crude 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.560 for a second. We produce thirteen and a half million 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:04.640 barrels of oil every single day. We're the biggest producer 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.159 of oil in the world. We're the biggest producer of 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.640 oil in the history of the world. If we do 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.080 everything that the Trump administration wants to do in terms 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:17.160 of Alaska opening up those lines, in more than five 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.360 years from now, we'll go from thirteen and a half 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.720 million barrels a day to fourteen Give me a break, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.240 that's the big revolution. Thirteen and a half to fourteen 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.920 and five years. Mental points. No, it's hardly any change 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.720 and in the context of a world that uses one 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.760 hundred and two million barrels a day. So when you 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.760 really look at what's going on in this world, we're 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.600 going to have to produce a lot more electricity, and 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.360 that's something which is going to come from renewables. If 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:48.359 you look at oil demand, the developed world has already 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.560 peaked its oil demand. China is going to be peaking 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.720 its fossil fuel demand in twenty twenty seven. That is 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.920 not something where demand is going to be growing. Electricity 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:03.320 demand is growing dramatically. Gasoline usage is either flat or 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:03.839 going down. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:05.400 They're three mile. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.960 Yes, tech companies are now going after their own electricity electricity. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:12.440 I do think there's more for nuclear. 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:17.880 Look, the question in nuclear is simple. There's the question 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.400 about toxicity, nuclear waste. There's a question about making sure 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.719 you don't have a true disaster, which is what Free 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.000 Mile Island is normally associated with. And there's cost. And 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.840 there are two kinds of nuclear. But we're talking now 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.120 about fission, which is the kind of nuclear energy that 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.520 we've been using for decades and that France uses so 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.080 much of, and then we still use a lot of 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.799 the question with fission has been every time that people 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.400 have tried to bring fishing on in the United States, 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.159 it hasn't been cheap. If you look at the last 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.560 nuclear plant to be brought up, it was brought up 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.320 in Georgia, and I honestly think it was something at 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:55.719 least four x the original cost, very very expensive energy. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:01.080 In fact, that's energy that is very expensive versus renewables 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.360 that are very cheap. It's a little more. It's more 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.520 complicated that because you have to talk about base load energy. 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.440 But I'm just saying, if you look at nuclear energy, 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.840 the promise has been there for a long time that 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.559 it would be abundant and cheap, but they've never gotten 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:15.080 it to be cheap. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.080 So can these big tech companies get the energy they 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.440 need from renewable energy? I mean, is there enough of 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.240 that right now? Or there's no. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:27.080 Question there's enough. The question about electricity, and particularly electricity 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.280 for AI, is it has to be available twenty four 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.400 to seven, three sixty five with absolute certainty, no interruptions, 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.440 no brain So the real issue here is how much 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.080 base load energy, stuff that you can definitely call on 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.240 at any time, do you need and where's that going 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.840 to come from? Can it come from batteries, Can it 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:53.240 come from hydro, can it come from nuclear, Can it 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.960 come from fossil fuels? And can it come from enhanced 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.400 geo thermal. There are a lot of different questions, There 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.280 are a lot of pull with different answers, and you know, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.720 everybody's trying and everybody wants to get baseload energy that's 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.920 really cheap, and you know, we have some I have 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.360 some opinions about that, but the proof of the pudding 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:11.800 is going to be in the eating. Who can really 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.440 produce it? How much can they produce and can it 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:15.880 be completely reliable? 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.920 All right, Tom stars setting us up for a discussion 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.720 that we'll be having for the years to come. Tom, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.240 appreciate your joining us today. Tom's great time to be 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:23.760 here with galvanized Energy.