1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. It's your old pals Josh and Chuck, and 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: you will have the chance to see us live in 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: person for the first time in two years, Friday, January 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: twenty one in San Francisco. Right, Chuck, that's right, We're 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: returning to the stage at Sketch Fest. We're very excited 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: about it. We can't wait to see everyone. It is 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: a VACS only show. Bring your backscard. It is a 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: mask only show. Bring that mask. Can't wait to see 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: a third of your faces. That's right. You can get 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: tickets at s F sketch Fest dot com and again Friday, 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: January one, thirty pm Sydney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco, California. 12 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: We will see you there. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck, 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: Bryan and Jerry's over there, and this is stuff you 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: should know. Let's get to it, friends. Yeah, that's right. 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: But hey, we have a bit of an announcement that 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: I'm excited about me too. We have added a new 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: writer to the stable. Uh Olivia Greshawn and this is 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: Libya's first effort and how we're doing it, you know, 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: because we've we've never really on boarded people because uh 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: David Edward colleagues of ours from the Housetuff worksdays. So 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: we thought, maybe, you know, we'd give someone an article, 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: not I mean sort of as a tryout, but just 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: to make sure that it was a good fit. And 26 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: Olivia killed it right out of the block. And she's 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: super talented as a writer and obviously very smart and 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: great at research, and like I know, both speaking for 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: both of us, we're just very excited to have Livia 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: on board. And uh yeah, so thanks Olivia, and welcome 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: to the to the family. Welcome aboard, Olivia. If you 32 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: went to high school with Livia, now would be a 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: good time to email her and say, hey, I didn't 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: know you were writing for stuff you should know. She'd 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: be like, oh that yeah. But this is a kind 36 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: of fun one I think as a first assignment to 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: for her because it's a little different, and that it 38 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: wasn't just one um one really deep dive on one 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: single thing. What she's gonna bomb that when we give 40 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: her that next one, but this is actually three things 41 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: in one. I had the idea of court stenography. But 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: then I was like, you know what, maybe, uh, that's 43 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: not quite enough. But I didn't want to do it 44 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: as a shorty, so I thought, let's just expand it 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: and talk about bailiff's uh court stenography and court sketch artists, 46 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: the triumvirate. Yeah, what we're calling the unsung heroes of 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: the courtroom because they're there. Uh, but you know, you're 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: not really ideally if they're doing their job right and 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: they're not a celebrity bailiff, you're not even gonna know 50 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: they're there. Yeah, that's pretty much true. They're kind of 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: meant to kind of blend into the background. Is the 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: judge who wants all the attention usually sometimes the lawyers, Okay, 53 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: bailiffs sometimes the lawyers, please, um, even the bailiff that's 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: super busy doing things. They're they're not showboating, you know 55 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. No, they're not like twirling their gun 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: or anything or being like hurry up, this is boring. 57 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: That would be bad. But bailiffs are the least exciting though, 58 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: so I think we should start with them. Okay, so bailiff's, 59 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: it turns out, um find their heritage. It goes back 60 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: many many centuries actually, and they apparently originally started out 61 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: in the UK as kind of legal overseers of a 62 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: manor house for a feudal lord. Basically, yeah, kind of 63 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: property managers. They could collect rent today, would sometimes do 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: some accounting, they could collect fines. I think a little 65 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: later on is when they were brought into the court system, 66 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: but it was still sort of doing like sheriffy things, right. 67 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: So that I saw, Chuck was the bailey in ants 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: where they were much more um involved in courts and 69 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: they actually have more power. They were more of a 70 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: government official than just like somebody who served a feudal lord. Okay, 71 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: And that's where this it's it's weird. It's almost like 72 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: between medieval England and medieval France, between these two interpretations 73 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: of what a bailiff was, it got all mixed together, 74 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: shaken up, some stuff fell off and some stuff stick around. 75 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: And then you said, okay, now we have the bailiff 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: as we understand it today, right, which is you know, 77 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: kind of what we're gonna concentrate on is the the 78 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: good old fashioned American bailiff sitting in the quarter eat 79 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: eating apple pie and ready to jump in there and 80 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: crack someone's skull open, or hand the judge a key 81 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: piece of evidence or arrest somebody. Yeah, because a bailiff 82 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: today is as far as people in America and if 83 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: you're in the UK, you're like, oh, I know the 84 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: bailiff is. It's somebody who, uh there's a water bailiff 85 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: for there's an eviction bailiff who deals with travelers who 86 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: won't leave. Um, that's not really our understanding of bailiff 87 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: in the United States. In the United States, we think 88 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: of them almost exclusively as an officer of the court, 89 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: who is, in most people's opinion, the the security for 90 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: the court. Like they were a gun, they were a badge. 91 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: They're very frequently like a sheriff's deputy or a federal 92 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: marshal or something like that. But apparently there's way more 93 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: to their job than just that I had no idea about. 94 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: Like I really thought they were just there just stand 95 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: up and look menacing that was their their purpose. Uh. Yeah, 96 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: there's about eighteen thousand and change in the United States. Interestingly, 97 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: it's not a it's not an official title. Um, it's 98 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: just sort of, as Olivia says, like a colloquial term 99 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: for someone who does this job. Um, but you don't 100 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: get titled bailiff. They just they just call you bailiff. 101 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: Like you can be a a part time bailiff in 102 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: a small town but also be a marshal or a 103 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: sheriff's deputy as your main job. Yeah, I think even 104 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: in in um in big cities that can be the 105 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: case as well. But um, but yeah, I think you're 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: you're you're You're definitely in a smaller area, more rural 107 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: area where there's say, less court activity, they're gonna be like, 108 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: this is not big enough of a job for you. 109 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: You need to do more. You need to pull your 110 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: weight more than this. That's right, So go back to 111 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: be a veterinary assistant, all right, deliver the paper, Yeah, 112 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: do a little bailiffing, and don't forge the mayor's That's right. 113 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: So some of the other jobs that a bailiff has 114 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: that I wasn't aware of. You said something about them 115 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: handling evidence. If you are dealing with evidence in the court, 116 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: you do not just hand it to the judge. You 117 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: hand it to the bailiff, and the bailiff hands it 118 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: to the judge. That was a big one. I didn't realize, Yeah, 119 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: you present the murder weapon and you run it. The 120 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: judge with it, right, and then bailiff says, go ahead, 121 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Another one that I did know but didn't 122 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: realize I knew is that the bailiff is usually the 123 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: person who swears in a witness, making them swear an 124 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: oath on the Bible or the Constitution or something like that, 125 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: depending on whether you're in a red state or a 126 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: blue state, you know what I mean. Yeah, they're gonna 127 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: usher the jury in and out. They're gonna usher the 128 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: prisoners in and out. Uh. You know, a lot of 129 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: times with these big trials, they'll have you know, a 130 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: few bailiffs working the room. Uh. They tell people to 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: not smoke, They tell people, they screen people when they 132 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: come into the courtroom. They have to you know, you 133 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: can't yell out loud. You can't do that, not in 134 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: this court. Like the judge is gonna admonish them. But 135 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: then the judge is gonna look over at the bailiff, 136 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: and the bailiff is gonna say, I know what that 137 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: look means, right, Yeah, And I was gonna say good. 138 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: Bailiff doesn't even need to wag their finger, like the 139 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: kemb motumbo. They can just shoot a look and you 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: know exactly what you're not supposed to be doing anymore. 141 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: So Olivia did some research on on a website that 142 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: kind of broke down the you know, like what makes 143 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: for a good bailiff if you're looking to do this 144 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: as a job, And they classified it as highly social 145 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: with constant contact with others, including unpleasant and angry people 146 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: and physically aggressive people. So you're not just the muscle, 147 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: but you're definitely the muscle exactly. Um, which means you're 148 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: also providing security to not just to the courtroom, but 149 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: for like functions of the court. So like, if the 150 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: jury is sequestered, your job as bailiff is to be 151 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: one of the people guarding them. You're also kind of 152 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: in charge of guarding the jury against themselves, so like 153 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: if the jury is not supposed to be discussing the 154 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: case or at some point, you're supposed to be there 155 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: making sure that they don't discuss the case. Yeah that look, um, 156 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: you're just basically making sure everybody's following the rules as 157 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: much as possible. That's right, And I thought this is 158 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: pretty interesting, kind of going back to the feudal lord 159 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: time bailiff still in the United States can be responsible 160 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: for evicting people, not just in England. I saw that 161 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: was Michigan, in Ohio and I think Washington State all 162 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: use bailiffs still, whereas other places use sheriff's deputies. But 163 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: then confusingly, in some places of bailiff is a sheriff's deputy. 164 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: What do you paid for doing this? Grand? Easy? Not 165 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: quite h it depends state governments pay much more. There's 166 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: a median of almost sixty nine grand a year, which 167 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: is not bad if you're on a local level, maybe 168 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: forty two grand for being a bailiff. What I didn't understand, 169 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: and I didn't get a chance to look up, is 170 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: if that's on top of your salary as a marshal 171 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: or a a sheriff's deputy or something like that. Uh, 172 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me if you part time to bailiff. 173 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: If it might be more of an hourly thing. But 174 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just guessing there, um but not. 175 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: You know, it's not bad scratch for a high school 176 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: graduate or to get your g e d. That's a 177 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's a very good living. Uh. You can 178 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: have a degree in criminal Justice. I saw where and 179 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: we'll talk about celebrity bailiffs here in a second. But 180 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: Judge Judy's bailiff Petrie. Is it Petrie Hawkins Bird or 181 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: Petrie I have never watched the second of Judge Judy 182 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: Points of Pride in my life, so I don't know, 183 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: but I'm going with Hawkins Bird. He had a he 184 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: had AH, he has a criminal justice degree, so he's legit, right. Um, 185 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: So well, I mean, let's talk about celebrity bailiff's because 186 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: there's basically two that come to mind, and one of 187 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: them is Petrio Petrie Hawkins Bird, who was Judge Judy's 188 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: bailiff for twenty five seasons of Judge Judy. And I 189 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: read a like a really sad little article. So apparently 190 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: Judge Judy um ran her course on CBS, got canceled 191 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: and said I'm going over to I m B TV 192 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: where I am dB TV, which I didn't know was 193 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: the thing. No, I don't think anybody did. So everybody's 194 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: like a good, good move, Judge Judy. But she didn't 195 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: ask her bailiff of twenty five years to come to 196 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: her show and apparently didn't talk about it at all. 197 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: And she had announced that she was doing this show 198 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: before the end of her twenty fifth season, so they 199 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: filmed the entire twenty fifth season together, and she just 200 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: never mentioned it that she was starting this other show 201 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: and he wasn't invited. So, um, his feelings were definitely hurt. 202 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: And I think he was a little bewildered and sad, 203 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: and I think felt a little betrayed by that. Yeah. 204 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: I saw that too. I saw that the reason she 205 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: gave was that they can't afford your salary. And he said, well, 206 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: no one even talked to me about it. I probably 207 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: would have taken less, but it wasn't offered. Uh. And 208 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: he also said that in twenty five years, she never 209 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: like invited me to one celebrity shin dig or one 210 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: like social lunch. Right. Yeah, but he said, but I 211 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: wish her well, and you know, he didn't want to 212 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: drag her through the money. You know, he was a 213 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: class that He basically was just saying, like we were 214 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: professional colleagues, we weren't friends, and she was just like, 215 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: I'm I'm just moving on with a new cast, and 216 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: it is what it is. Like I said, I never 217 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: watched it. What I did watch a lot as a 218 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: ten to twelve year old was the People's Court. Yeah. 219 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: I don't know why I love that show as it 220 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: was on right after school and I watched me a 221 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: lot of Judge Wapner and a lot of Rusty Barrell 222 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: is bailiff and Rusty Barrell has the first celebrity bailiff 223 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: and by far the most prolific celebrity bailiff of all time. 224 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: He actually was a real bailiff in court for Los 225 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: Angeles County. So was a bird. Oh yeah, Bert, Yes, 226 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: you're right, you're right. He was from Manhattan. That's how 227 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: he knew judge duty was. They worked in an actual 228 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: court together before she had a TV show. Um Rusty 229 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: Barrell worked in in l A County courts. He actually 230 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: guarded the courtroom during the Manson trial. He was legit 231 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: um but he became the celebrity bailiff on divorce Court 232 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: first from nineteen fifty seven and nineteen sixty nine. And 233 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: it just so happened that he worked with um Uh, 234 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: a lawyer by the last name of Wapner during that 235 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: time on that show, and that lawyer Wapner would go 236 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: on to have a son named Judge Joseph A. Wapner 237 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: who would become the People's Court judge. Right, that's right. Uh. 238 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: And they worked together on People's Court and then uh 239 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: judge Wattner's Animal Court. And he said, most prolific. I 240 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: was doing the math real quick because Bird was in 241 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: there twenty five years, but it looks like twenty six 242 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: years for Rusty. Oh wow, it was twelve on divorce Court, 243 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: twelve on People's Court. And the boy that Animal Court 244 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: that pushed him over the edge was that the shark 245 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: that got jump. I don't know. I mean it was 246 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: two years. I bet it wasn't very good, but they 247 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: count as two more years, so one more year than Bird. Uh. 248 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: And apparently Wattner at one point an interview said when 249 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: they were originally doing the People's Court casting that the 250 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: executive producer said that he wanted to sexy, give me 251 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: a sexy girl as the bailiff, but Wattner was like, no, 252 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: let's let's use this real bailiff my dad worked with. 253 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: And he did, and the rest is history. Should we 254 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: take a break, we should. We're gonna take a break, everybody, 255 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: and not keep you in suspense. We're gonna come back 256 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: and talk about court reporters. Alright, Chuck, So core reporters 257 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: are um, you said that bailiffs were the least interesting, 258 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: So core reporters are the most interesting to you. I 259 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: think court reporters and sketch artists are definitely interesting to me. 260 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: But boy, I love this court reporting section. I thought 261 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: it was super interesting. Uh, the machinery and the history, 262 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: and that this the fact that they are play a 263 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: real civic duty, uh in recording history. And that's one 264 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: of the first points Olivia makes is in uh Neo 265 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: Babylonian Mesopotamia, they kept legal records on clay tablets, and 266 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: these weren't just like, uh so we'll know what happened 267 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: in this court case. It was, but it was recording history, 268 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: like it was recording precedent and all that stuff was 269 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: really important from the beginning. Yeah, for for the Mesopotamians, 270 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: the Babylonians, they weren't saying, like, we gotta preserve this 271 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: this amazing verdict about this land dispute for posterity, Like 272 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: this was how like on this clay tablet was how 273 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: somebody could prove that no, my family owns this land. 274 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: It was decided back in five b c UM and 275 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: my family owns this land. Look at the cunea formed 276 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: tablet um, we get a hand truck and I'll be 277 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: right back right exactly. But the the it just turned 278 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: out that that they kept such meticulous records and they survived, 279 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: and we figured out how to read Kennea formed that um. 280 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: That that we learned a lot about the Babylonians and 281 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: how they dealt with law and agricult sure um and 282 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: land disputes and traditions and customs and all that thanks 283 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: to writing that down through legal documents. And we actually 284 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: understand a lot about a lot of things based on 285 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: court documents. Like do you remember when we were talking 286 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: about the Salem witch trials in that episode and we 287 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: were saying, like, we we understand it very much because 288 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: it was extensively documented, but it was documented through court cases, 289 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: and there's just certain ways that you preserve facts and 290 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: information when you're documenting it through a court record, that's 291 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: just not the same. It doesn't give you the full picture, 292 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: um compared to you know, rounding out with journals and 293 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: diaries and stuff like that. But it's still way way 294 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: better than nothing. But what struck me is weird, Chuck, 295 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: is that the idea of recording stuff like that, which 296 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: seems like, of course you're going to do that. It 297 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: got lost for a while. Yeah. Here in the United 298 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: States during the colonial period, they were like you mentioned 299 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: diaries and stuff. That's kind of what they relied on was, 300 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: you know, whenever a lawyer or a judge might happen 301 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: to keep personal notebooks about stuff, they would use that. 302 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: But they didn't officially decree like, this is something we 303 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: need to do. I think it was the early eighteen 304 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: hundreds that they said, no, this is a problem when 305 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: we can't just rely on whoever happens to want to 306 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: take notes and save them. Uh, judges, you need to 307 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: start writing your verdicts down on paper at least and 308 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: not just say them out loud. And the judges are like, uh, 309 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: Probably because judges didn't really feel like doing that is 310 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: gave rise to actual court reporting. Yeah, think about this, chuck. 311 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: You know how like emphatic like older men are when 312 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: they're just they just know they're right. Like, think about 313 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: the cluster that would arise when some judge just knew 314 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: he remembered a verdict correctly and those totally wrong. Like 315 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: that was the state of the early American court system 316 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: before they finally said, like the beginning of the nineteenth century, 317 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: when they finally said, no, we we need to write 318 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: this down, like if you put yourself in that situation, 319 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: I can't imagine how many terrible outcomes there were from that. 320 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think it was an eighteen o four one, 321 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: Massachusetts finally enacted a law that said the governor has 322 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: the authority to appoint someone quote learned in the law 323 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: to obtain true and authentic reports of the of the decisions. 324 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventeen was when Congress finally passed a law 325 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: saying the Supreme Court at the very least has to 326 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: have an official court reporter. Said yeah, yeah, Supreme Court, 327 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: you get on that too. It's something I didn't realize. 328 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty interesting, is that, Um, before 329 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: that people did document court reports, is particularly of the 330 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, but they were just like freelance mos who 331 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: showed up and sat there and documented it themselves to 332 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: turn around and sell to whoever wanted that that kind 333 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: of information. So it was like, um, it was it 334 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: was willy nilly, I think is the term for that. 335 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: And you might ask who would want to buy that? Uh, 336 00:18:54,200 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: you know, law schools, attorneys, bobbies, right, constant bailiffs, bailiff's 337 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: Bailey's So finally, finally, at the end of the nineteenth century, 338 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: everybody's like, all right, we're on board with this idea 339 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: about actually recording the decisions of the court. And let's 340 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: go a little further. Let's let's record every single minute detail, 341 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: down to gestures, down to somebody sitting quietly when asked 342 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: a question. And um, that's where court reporting was actually born, 343 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: was in the end of the nineteenth century. Yeah, when 344 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: the National Shorthand Reporters Association was formed. And I think 345 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: this is one of the reasons that spoke to me 346 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: a little bit because I took a course in high 347 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: school called speed writing. Oh well, there we go, speedwriting, type, typing, 348 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: and um, I can't remember the third thing. It's one 349 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: of those classes that that you know that you spent 350 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: time doing three different things. Oh a checkbook that was 351 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: in there. I don't that was that class anyway. Speed 352 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: writing was, um no, but I did take kommack. Um 353 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't official shorthand as we're about to 354 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: talk about. It was. It was a kind of shorthand though, 355 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: um and the funniest thing I remember from that class. 356 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think I should say her 357 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: name is my old friend. She would probably think it's funny, 358 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: it wouldn't care, but I won't say her name. But 359 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: she sat next to me in class, and we used 360 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: always cut up and she did not learn UM. She 361 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: learned the shorthand, but not such that she could take 362 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: the test, which was basically a teacher would just dictate things. 363 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: You would write it in shorthand and then transcribe it 364 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: back in long form UM. But she was really really 365 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: fast at writing, so she would write it all in 366 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: regular longhand and then take the time to transcribe it 367 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: to shorthand and then turn them in reverse order. And 368 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: now you got busted though, And that was technically cheating UM. 369 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: And always felt bad for my unnamed friend. Was really fast, 370 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: didn't account for something. Yeah, I mean it was she 371 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: should have gotten an A for effort at least. But yeah, 372 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: if she went back and transcribed it using a book, 373 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: that's that's cheating chuck a book. Oh well, then yes 374 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: she should have gotten an A. She just needed more time. 375 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: It's like if you were in a German class and 376 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: you had to just write down in English what they 377 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: were saying in German, writing the German first and then 378 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: taking your time to transcribe it. Yah know, I got 379 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: what you're saying for sure, And I dispute the teacher 380 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: having a book involved. But shorthand is fascinating to me. 381 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: And as a very long history going back to Cicero's 382 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: enslaved servant, Marcus Julius Tiro in six b c E 383 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: developed a Latin shorthand became known as tyroni in notes, 384 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: and these were symbols. They were like four thousand symbols, 385 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: and they you know, it was basically the earliest version 386 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: of shorthand. Yeah, and apparently medieval monks got ahold of 387 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: it and turned it into thirteen thousand symbols. Of course 388 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: they did so, um, yeah, because they had a lot 389 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: of time on their hand time. Um. And there's like 390 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: a real value in developing shorthand. So there was all 391 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: sorts of shorthand systems that were developed over the time. 392 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: But as far as court reporting goes, it wasn't until 393 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: a guy named John Robert Greg got into the mix 394 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century, UM, and he developed a 395 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: Greg method of shorthand writing that was so useful and 396 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: so popular he actually opened schools around the country. I 397 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: saw him described as a tycoon where basically, if you 398 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: were a secretary, if you were involved in anything that 399 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: that that involved transcribing or taking dictation or any job 400 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: like that, you basically could not get the job until 401 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: you had a GREG certificate. And so you had to 402 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: go pay to take those classes and be trained like 403 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: it was just the way it was. And then along 404 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: came Miles Bartholome You, who basically ruined everything for John 405 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: Robert Creig and his heirs. No, not so you would 406 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: think the court reporter Miles barthol of You, by inventing 407 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: the first stenotype machine, would have made uh speedwriting in 408 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: shorthand go the way of the Dodo, But that did 409 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: not happen. Uh. And Livia points out very stuteley that 410 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: today there are still some court reporters who do pen 411 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: and paper shorthand and ostensibly because as as we'll see, 412 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: it's really hard to learn how to master that machine. 413 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: And if you're really good at shorthand, and you can 414 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: write two hundred words a minute using shorthand, then just 415 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: have plenty of pins and paper and go at. Yeah, 416 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: if you can write two hundred words a minute, you're 417 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: probably generally keeping up. But from the the stenography machines 418 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: or the steno um is what they're called machine shorthand 419 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: like you can, if you know what you're doing, you 420 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: can do three d words a minute. And that's when 421 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: you're doing like some high quality court reporting work. Yeah. 422 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: I get a feeling that the pen and paper might 423 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: be some of these small town courts that you know 424 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, they they're bailiff is doing all 425 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: sorts of other jobs. Their core reporter just has pen 426 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: and paper. That's a giant mess basically in these small 427 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: I mean, but it makes sense, you know. Uh. And 428 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: before we move onto the stinto we do need to 429 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: shout out the that weird, uh gas mask looking thing 430 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: that you see sometimes the stino mass and that's the 431 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: thing that you speak into but they can't hear you speaking, 432 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: and it records, you know, it records you saying the 433 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: real words. Yeah. I think my issue with that is 434 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: not even the shape or the look of the mask. 435 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: It's the color of the material they use. It's always 436 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: this weird clinical medical tan color. It's like have you 437 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: heard of yellow or blue. This is a job that 438 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: I thought when might be fun as a retirement job 439 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: for me. Yeah. Uh, but I would not be able 440 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: to do it without my own commentary, So it would 441 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: just be a little very low voice like and and 442 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: you know this attorney objects, Oh god, this guy again. 443 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: He thinks he's all that. Yeah, I don't think we can. 444 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: I don't think you can do that. I think you 445 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: just need to say what people are saying. Well, that's 446 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: a talent in and of itself. It depends. So I 447 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: was looking into those Steno masks and I was like, 448 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: so how does this work? So you're actually when you're 449 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: wearing that mask, it's part part muffler, part silence or 450 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: like the people around you can't hear you. That's why 451 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: that mask is so big. But all you're doing is 452 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: restating what the people are You're you're doing vocal commentary 453 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: on what's going on. Okay, that makes sense. But then 454 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: you're like, well wait a minute, are there like transcriptions? Yes, 455 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: that means that you have to go back listen to 456 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: what you recorded, type it up as you're listening, and 457 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: turn it into a clean transcript. So you're basically doubling 458 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: the work with the Steno steno mask. Oh, I thought 459 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 1: it had. I thought it was a machine that just 460 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: did it for you. Now it does. But when Force 461 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: Wells invented that thing in World War Two, it did 462 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: not have that machine. So it was a really clugey 463 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: process that took a lot of time. But the reason 464 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: they did it is because it was so highly accurate 465 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: and it could produce so many like comments and details 466 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: and observations that you might just miss that if you 467 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: were typing or writing shorthand right. So it was a 468 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: lot of effort, but it seemed to be worth the effort. Uh. 469 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: Livia found a court reporter from Cleveland named Todd L. 470 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: Peterson who wrote some stuff. I think his name, sorry, 471 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: it's person. Oh do say Peterson? This person with two 472 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: s s. Yeah, But he said basically, you know, if 473 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: you're just talking about a regular person, they speaking about 474 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty words a minute. But then you 475 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: have multiple people speaking, you have people talking over each other, 476 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: people interrupting each other. Uh, it can get up to 477 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: three hundred actual words a minute. And if you're one 478 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: of the best typist around, you max out. You know, 479 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: in the in the low one hundreds basically, and uh, 480 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: you also have to say who was speaking to the 481 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: name of the person you're in there for, you know, 482 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: eight to ten hours at a time, and it's a 483 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: brutal job. This machine is, uh, it's a crazy piece 484 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: of machinery because it doesn't it's not like a little 485 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: tiny typewriter. It is twenty two blank keys and a 486 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: blank number bar and you are playing it like a piano. Basically, 487 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: you're not saying, you're not spelling out words one letter 488 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: at a time. You're doing it all at the same time. 489 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: And it's it's it's just a miracle how anyone ever 490 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: learns how to use this thing. Yeah that that um, 491 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: that hundred and ten word a minute typist is using 492 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: a quarty keyboard like you and I use on our computers. 493 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: And apparently, um, because the rate of speech is a 494 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty words per minute. That means that if 495 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: you're typing on a normal keyboard, you start to fall 496 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: by mind at the first after the first ten seconds, 497 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: and you just get further and further behind. Right with 498 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: the machine you're talking about, the stenography machine with just 499 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: twenty two keys in that blank number bar. The way 500 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: that set up is you've got the beginning consonant sounds 501 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: that are being worked on the left hand the left side, 502 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: on your right hand, on the right side are the 503 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: ending consonant sounds, and in the middle are the syllables 504 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: or the vault the vowels that um that you use 505 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: your thumb to type, that go in the middle of 506 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: the words. So that means, because of the placement of 507 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: the keys, you can press all these these keys at 508 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: once and compose a word all at once, rather than 509 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: one letter at a time. No matter how fast you're 510 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: typing on a quarty keyboard, you're still ultimately typing one 511 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: letter at a time. With a stenography machine, you're typing 512 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: an entire word all at once. Basically, yes. And that's 513 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: why in a courtroom they can ask for the stenographer 514 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: to read back, the court reporter to read back something 515 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: that's just been said, which has been used in countless 516 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: TV comedies and movie comedies throughout history. It's always a 517 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: great gag when something dumb happens in court and the 518 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: court reporter, in the very monotone reads back what has 519 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: just happened, like airplane airplane two. I can't remember what 520 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: the joke was but I know there was one in that. 521 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure they did. That's a trope. It's been in 522 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: a million movies. It's one of the great jokes. So 523 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that they've done is said, they said, Okay, 524 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: the stenography machine is amazing, and the people who who 525 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: use these things and can type three hundred plus words 526 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: a minute are are magical human beings there. But um, 527 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: we not have technology that can make these things even 528 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: more outstanding, and that is that while you're typing. Uh. 529 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: And apparently, by the way, people who are typing who 530 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: are masters of a stenography machine, um, they can they 531 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: type with like accuracy at three hundred words a minute. 532 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: So it's just fantastic. So they have these things plugged 533 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: in now to a computer that's basically adding time stamps, um, 534 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: putting the person's name after like next to who's speaking 535 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: at any given point, um, And then they take that 536 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: and transfer it. They send it out to a real 537 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: time live feed to like the judges computer, the lawyer's computers, um, 538 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 1: so that everybody who needs one in the courtroom sees 539 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: the transcript as it's happening, basically almost entirely in real time. 540 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: Pretty cool. It is pretty cool. And then the one 541 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: last technology I saw a chuck is that, um, they 542 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: have a speech to text now, so that now, finally 543 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: those stunno masks are actually a valuable tool, and I 544 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: believe they're starting to come back. Those on your phone, 545 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah basically, but you just need a muffler silencer mask 546 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: to attach to your phone and you'd be you'd be 547 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: right there for a court reporter. Yeah, that those are 548 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: remarkably accurate on the phone. I found. Yeah, it's pretty 549 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. But there are some things where they kind 550 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: of lack, um, like if you are if you weren't 551 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: using just the court reports. Some apparently some courts have 552 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: said let's just set up some microphones in the court 553 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: and have an AI transcribe this and and just not 554 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, take the court reporter out of the whole 555 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: thing in the stentle mask. Get rid of that ugly 556 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: stentle mask. And they found that the AI can't do 557 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: things like understand accents, um, especially if it's a thick 558 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: accent when people talk over each other. It just throws 559 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: its hands up. Um. If if you want, if you 560 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: ask an AI to to read it back, that can 561 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: be a problem, or the AI can't ask you to 562 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: repeat yourself. That's another one too. So if you are 563 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: a court reporter, you're getting me making should be three 564 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year. Should be asked me to learn 565 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: that machine because it takes uh, it's this, you know. 566 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on how fast of a learning 567 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: you are. But Mr person says six months to learn 568 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: those key strokes and a a couple of years to 569 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: really get good at it. That's that's a lot of 570 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: time put in. UM. I think the median pay is 571 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: about sixty one grand as of May. You can also 572 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: get a little side hustle going doing uh depots maybe, 573 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: although I think most of those are usually video recorded 574 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: because my friend does that for a living. Um, but 575 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: sixty one grand should be more. That's all I'm saying. 576 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: I'll bet they do both. I'll bet the video record them. 577 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: But I'm sure they have transcripts. Is because it's so 578 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: much easier to scan a transcript definement you're looking for 579 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: almost to his or just video. There's no court reporter 580 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: on there. That's interesting. It probably depends on the again, 581 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the size of the case and the how much money 582 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: you can throw at it, because it costs dough. Yeah, 583 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: I can imagine. Uh, there was one person we should 584 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: mention that. I kind of feel bad. But there's one 585 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: part of this I did find funny. There was New 586 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: York State Supreme Court Court reporter, let's say this, we 587 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: don't even aim him, who had a drinking problem and 588 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: it screwed up pretty big at a few trials. And 589 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: it's not funny because he had a drinking problem. The 590 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: only funny part is I can imagine them reading the 591 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: transcript backed at some point when he just repeatedly typed 592 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: I hate my job. I hate my job, over and 593 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: over and over. Yeah. And apparently like he did this 594 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: on some really important um trials and like he just 595 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: didn't take notes for a couple of days and some 596 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: of them and so now some guilty verdicts have been 597 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: up for grabs, and they had chuck. They had reconstruction 598 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: hearings where the judge brought the lawyers and the defendants 599 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: at everybody back in and said, Okay, who remembers what 600 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: about this? Because we're missing some really important parts of 601 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: the record and we need to try to recreate it. Wow. 602 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: And the thing that stuck me to was in this 603 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: in a New York Post article on it. They interviewed 604 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: his ex wife and she said it was that job 605 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: that caused him to start drinking the first place. And 606 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, amen, because I gotta tell you, I can't 607 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: think of too many more stressful jobs that don't involve 608 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: an actual human life in your hands, like say like 609 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: a heart surgeon or something than a court reporter. You think, yeah, man, 610 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: the pressure to get everything right, not miss anything, not 611 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: fall behind, and stay like that for eight hours at 612 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: a stretch, you know, every day that you're working that 613 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: that sounds like a very high pressure job. I don't know. 614 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: I think from that thing that that account you sent 615 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: of what they it was another insider account was it 616 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: seemed a little more zen to me than that because 617 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: what they he talked about was hearing but not listening. 618 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: So you kind of have to go into this fugue 619 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: state almost where you're hearing words but you're not listening, 620 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: as if you're in a conversation with someone, because then 621 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 1: you're investing even if you're not trying to, you're probably 622 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: investing emotionally, and that'll get you out of your rhythm. 623 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: You just have to you just to hear and let 624 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: the words flow through your fingers. Yeah, yeah, pretty interesting, 625 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, it is, like it is any thing, 626 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: but it takes a certain kind of person for sure. Yeah, 627 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: and I'm sure, I'm sure not all of them can 628 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: do it, but yeah, that would probably be the ideal 629 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: way to do it, for sure. All Right, let's take 630 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 1: our last break, and we're gonna come back and talk 631 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: about those scrappy little sketch artists right after this. Alright, Uh, 632 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: sketch artists are maybe the most unsung because there aren't 633 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: many of them. Um. I was starting to think about 634 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: court sketch artists, and you don't have them for every trial. 635 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 1: It's not like a bailiff or a stenographer. You only 636 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: get a sketch artist in there when it's something the 637 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: media is interested in. And there's only so many of 638 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: those trials. There's only so many big cities where those 639 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: trials might be taking place, So there aren't that many 640 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,479 Speaker 1: court sketch artists anymore that are working. No, And yeah, 641 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: the sketches that are produced, they're not ordered by the court, 642 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: they're not part of the court record. They exist to 643 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: two for the media to have some sort of visual 644 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: information to accompany reports of like court cases, which makes sense, 645 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: but I never really thought about that before. Yeah, and 646 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: that's it. And it started because there weren't cameras. Uh. 647 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty nine, it was John Brown's trial in 648 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: Virginia and there was a national magazine that sent illustrators 649 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: to cover this, and that was kind of where the 650 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: whole thing started. When cameras did come around, they put 651 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: him in the courtroom and the trial of the century, 652 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: the first trial of the century, uh, the Limberg baby 653 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: kidnapping with Bruno Holtman was chaos with those huge cameras 654 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: and flashbulbs and court reporter and photographers just like apparently 655 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: climbing on tables to get good shots. It was just 656 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: it was a zoo in there. So he said he 657 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: couldn't even get a fair trial because of these camera people. 658 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: And even though that argument didn't work, Uh, the A 659 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: b A said, you know what, no more cameras in 660 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: the courtrooms. Um. Generally this is the American Bar Association, 661 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: so they don't they can't lay down the law. But usually, 662 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean some are televised and sometimes there's cameras. I know, 663 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: we'll watch the O J trial, but most times you're 664 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: gonna see a sketch come out on the five o'clock news. Yeah, 665 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean because the A B. A said there shouldn't 666 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: be cameras in the courtroom a lot of states and 667 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: the federal government said, yeah, you're you're absolutely right. And 668 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: so that actually was one of those rare instances where 669 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: like the predecessor came back in style. And yeah, I 670 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: guess in the sixties, TV news was not a huge 671 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: thing until the civil rights era. Um, until the assassination 672 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: of JFK and the ensuing assassination of Jack Ruby. Um, 673 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: like the sixties is kind of supercharged the reason for 674 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: there to be TV news, and um, the people who 675 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: are doing the news needed, like if they couldn't get 676 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: cameras in the courtroom, they still needed some visual and 677 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: so that gave like a real boost to two courtroom 678 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: sketch artists as well. Yeah, I think the Jack Ruby 679 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,240 Speaker 1: trial is a man named Howard Brody very famously sketched 680 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: that one, and he went on to do RFK and 681 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: mlk's assassinations. Then there was a man named Bill Roebols 682 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: who has done some pretty famous ones. I like his stuff. 683 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 1: He did the Manson trial, and if you look at 684 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: those sketches online. He kind of has a Ralph Steadman 685 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: quality to him. Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty cool stuff. 686 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: The is that the guy who did the Manson leaping 687 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: at the judge? Yes, yeah, so, um so yeah. So 688 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: they're like, I think there are courtroom sketch artists that 689 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,959 Speaker 1: have kind of made names for themselves, especially among the media. 690 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: But what they will do is sit there and and 691 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, draw, um the scenes in the court. Believe 692 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: it or not, that's what these sketch artists are doing 693 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: all day. They sit around and draw. But then but 694 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: it's it's harder than it sounds because very frequently there 695 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: are um, there's not a lot of visual action going 696 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: on in like the courtroom. It's very it's not rare necessarily, 697 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: but it's not happening every moment. So they can't count 698 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: on Charles Manson to always be jumping over a table exactly. 699 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: So the court the court sketch artist has to basically 700 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: have a real eye for nuance and facial expression and 701 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: and to figure out how to capture visually a subtle 702 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: exchange that can maybe change the momentum of a court 703 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: case or something like that, and then present it. Then 704 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: they have to do it in a way that looks good, 705 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: and they have to do it quickly, and then when 706 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: they're done, they have to run out. Well, up until 707 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: probably the last few decades, they had to run outside 708 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: and the TV news crewise would film the um the 709 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: sketches that they made for that day for the evening news. Yeah, 710 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: and you know, they don't have a special chair like 711 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: the stenographer does, or a special place to stand. I mean, 712 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: I think in some courts they accommodate them as best 713 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: they can. I think there was this one article for 714 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: Mental Floss where one of the court reporters, Vicky ellen Behringer, 715 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: said that, uh, they would give her a place to 716 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: sit sometimes in the jury box if there was room. 717 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: But sometimes you're just out there with everyone else and 718 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: you're you know, you might have somebody with a big 719 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: giant head in front of you. You gotta you gotta 720 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: really work on the fly, and like you said, work fast. 721 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: I mentioned, it's not a whole lot of people doing it. 722 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: I think Robols was interviewed like three or four years ago. 723 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: He said he's working a lot, but he's just one 724 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: of two in Los Angeles. So and I thought that 725 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: just sounded astounding, but again, if you think about the 726 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: media covered trials, so just aren't that many of them. 727 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: So you don't need hundreds and thousands of sketch artists 728 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: around the country just to pick up work. Sketch artists 729 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: are becoming bailiffs. Yeah, the bailiffs like got the gun 730 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: in one hand and sketching on the other. It's tough, man, 731 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: it's tough out there. So, um, one of the places 732 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 1: you can get work, if you're a reliable sketch artist 733 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: is by drawing the Supreme Court because you just aren't 734 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: going to get a camera in there. Like anybody who 735 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: listens to MPR News is familiar with Nina Totenberg's like 736 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: play by play of um Supreme Court arguments and discussions, 737 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: and she's kind of like a verbal sketch artist. But um, 738 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: the point is here there's not any media allowed in 739 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:50,280 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Champ just today with the abortion proceedings. 740 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: I was looking at pictures. I saw some last night 741 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: of the sketch artists and it was probably done by 742 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: Arthur Lean. Arthur maybe the only person to him for 743 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, but I know that he does the 744 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: Scotus blog and h for NBC, so maybe they probably 745 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: let more than one end for something this big, but 746 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: apparently it's uh court reporters have round or I'm sorry. Um. 747 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: Sketch artists have roundly said it's a lot easier to 748 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: draw someone like Charles Manson than it is to draw 749 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: some just sort of normal looking normal I don't know, 750 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: like Tom Brady or something like that. Yeah, that was 751 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: very famous. Jane Rosenberg sketch Tom tom Brady almost that 752 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: Tom Barringer um during the deflate Gate proceedings and and 753 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: it was, you know, Tom Brady is a traditionally a 754 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: handsome person, and he looked a little bit like Lurch 755 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: and it became a meme and it was pretty funny. 756 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: The best one I saw, the best of me my 757 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,800 Speaker 1: saw was um, that sketch of Tom Brady photoshopped onto 758 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 1: the Hunchback from Hunchback and Notre Dame the Disney movie. 759 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: Really it was perfect. If she got a lot of 760 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: press out of that, she did the others. Best one 761 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: I saw was that sketch of Tom Brady's head on 762 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:12,359 Speaker 1: the potato Jesus meme right right. The fit pretty well. Team. Uh. 763 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: The final little thing here that Livia found, which I 764 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: thought was pretty great in a testament to how good 765 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: of work that she's doing for us so far. But 766 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: she she found that they sometimes attorneys, and this doesn't 767 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: surprise me. They will buy some of these sketches. I 768 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: guess sometimes either if it's a famous case or early 769 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: in their career and you know, have it framed, so 770 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: you know, just I think it's just sort of a 771 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: symbolic thing because there they all, even though they have 772 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: different styles, you can always tell a courtroom sketch. Oh 773 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: you don't think to have a framed courtroom sketch of 774 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: yourself and you finally make it as an attorney is 775 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: probably a pretty big deal. Yeah, especially if you're standing 776 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: and pointing at the accused. Yeah, they're really dramatic like that. Sure, 777 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: I've always wanted the Wall Street Journal to do a 778 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: piece on us, so we could get a drawing of 779 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: us like that. That's a really like um um, easily 780 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,879 Speaker 1: recognizable type of drawing too. Yeah, totally come on Wall 781 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: Street or you know, Mad Magazine. Maybe it's defunct, Chuck, 782 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: I know, but this guy's still draw They can bring 783 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: him out her retirement. I want more Drucker. I think 784 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: he passed away. But oh God, to be drawn by 785 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: more drunk that would be pretty amazing. Or I'd take 786 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: Jack Davis too. He did the ug A football um 787 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: guy in the seventies. Now that's right. I got that 788 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 1: coke bottle in my bar still any care? Maybe someday 789 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: Chuck commemorative coke bottle. Uh. Well, since Chuck said commemorative 790 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: coke bottle, I think that's it, which means it's time 791 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: for a listener mail everybody. I'm gonna call this another 792 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: dentistry email. This is from Kayla. Hey, guys, really enjoyed 793 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: your episode about dentistry and currently a fourth year dental 794 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: student in the US graduating in May. I don't want 795 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: to add a couple of things here. Green Black was 796 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: one of the fathers of dynastry that you mentioned, but 797 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: you didn't say much about him. Green, commonly known as G. D. 798 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: Black in the dental realm, invented the pedal driven dental 799 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 1: drill and also outlined the best way to prepare tooth 800 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,720 Speaker 1: for cavity filling, which is still the method used today. 801 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,760 Speaker 1: And secondly, since you focused on the history of dynastry, 802 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to mention st uh Apollonia, the patron saint 803 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: of Dynastry and the year two forty nine, Apollonia, a 804 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: deaconess was beaten for refusing to renounce her faith, and 805 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 1: the beating caused all of her teeth to shatter and 806 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: fall out. She then elected to be burned alive instead 807 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: of renounced her faith, and even jumped into the fire herself. 808 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: After her death, she was made the patron state of 809 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: Dentnastry and Toothaches and there's even a painting of her 810 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: in the louver. And this is uh from Kayla, who 811 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: was just introduced to the show last year by her 812 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: brother and now was a big fan. Nice, thanks Kayla, 813 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: Good luck Dynasty. Yeah, for sure, that's a that's one 814 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: of those examples. I knew both of those, they just 815 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: didn't make it in the show, and it's just so 816 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: excruciating to be called out about those later on. It's 817 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: okay to miss things. Well, thanks a lot, Kayla, and 818 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: good luck with dental school. Uh, and thank you for 819 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: writing in and welcome to the show, right, Chuck. That's right. Well, 820 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,959 Speaker 1: if you want to be like Kayla, you can send 821 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,760 Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff Podcast. Did I Heart radio 822 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: dot com? Stuff you Should Know is a production of 823 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit 824 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 825 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.