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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explore some of the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. I'm Michael Barn, I'm Scarlett Phil and

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Speaker 1: I'm Damien's Las Hour. Oh we got baseball. Baseball is

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Speaker 1: here and we get there are so many things going

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Speaker 1: on in baseball and one topic right now involved streaming.

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Speaker 1: So you're gonna have to watch your favorite team if

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Speaker 1: you might have to dig a little more into your pocket.

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Speaker 1: Talk more about that Bloomberg's own Jerry Smith. Jerry, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Now what see this A lot of this started way

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Speaker 1: back when the local affiliates, you know, that all went

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Speaker 1: up man, and that's gone in flames now and now

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Speaker 1: old man Barr has to get his streaming groove going on.

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Speaker 1: Talk us more about what this means for the game. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a This is a big story in sports

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Speaker 1: media right now is what is going to happen to

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Speaker 1: the regional sports channels. They're under a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: These are the channels that you know they broadcast your

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, NBA, NHL games to people in the

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Speaker 1: local market, and they're under a lot of pressure because

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Speaker 1: of chord cutting mainly, and people are cutting the chord

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Speaker 1: and that's depriving them of revenue that they used to

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Speaker 1: pay the teams. And with so many people cutting the chord,

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Speaker 1: these channels are really pinning their hopes on streaming and

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Speaker 1: the idea that people, the chord cutters out there are

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Speaker 1: going to pay between twenty and thirty dollars a month

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Speaker 1: to subscribe to a streaming service and watch the games

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Speaker 1: that way. So we've seen more and more of these announcements.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the Yes Network, which is the cable home

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Speaker 1: of the Yankees, introduced their streaming service for the first time. Nesson,

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Speaker 1: which is the Boston Red Sox broadcaster, launch day streaming

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Speaker 1: service last year. And Ballet Sports, which is the largest

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Speaker 1: owner of local sports channels, they have a streaming service.

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Speaker 1: So we're seeing more and more of this. The price

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Speaker 1: is really a challenge. I think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: tricky to get people to spend that kind of money

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Speaker 1: on a streaming service, especially when you think about Netflix

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Speaker 1: and all the other prices out there which are much lower. Yeah, Neston,

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Speaker 1: according to your reporting, costs thirty dollars a month, and

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Speaker 1: people are accustomed to getting highlights for free on Twitter

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Speaker 1: and gifts on Twitter. So asking someone to spend thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars a month, what kind of products are people getting

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Speaker 1: on their phones? Well, right now, they're getting essentially the

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Speaker 1: same thing they get when they watch cable. They get

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Speaker 1: the games, they get the pre show, the post game show.

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Speaker 1: And the price is not an accident. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: reason that the services are priced so high is because

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Speaker 1: these channels really don't want to kill the golden goose,

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Speaker 1: the cable business that they're already in. If they start

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Speaker 1: pricing these apps at like five or six dollars, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are going to say, well, why am

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Speaker 1: I subscribing to cable and ll cancel? And that really

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Speaker 1: upsets the Comcast and Direct TVs of the world, and

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Speaker 1: in fact might violate the contracts that these channels have

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Speaker 1: with those distributors. So that's why their price so high,

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Speaker 1: is that they don't want to really unravel the cable business,

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Speaker 1: even though that's a declining business, as is Jerry. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think back to twenty nineteen. I think back too,

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Speaker 1: when Sinclair Broadcast purchased twenty one regional sports networks from

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Speaker 1: Walt Disney for nine point six billion dollars, right, and that,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, was Diamond Sports Group, which owns

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Speaker 1: the ballet sports brand. Right, So take me through you

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Speaker 1: know what, Yes and Neston are trying to do differently,

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Speaker 1: so they don't, you know, so they don't wind up

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Speaker 1: in the same place as Diamond Sports. Yeah, we've all

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Speaker 1: seen the headlines in the last couple of weeks about

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Speaker 1: Diamond Sports filing for bankruptcy, and they're a bit of

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Speaker 1: a unique situation. I would put the Yankees channel on

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Speaker 1: the Red Sox channel a little bit up to the side.

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Speaker 1: And if you talk about Diamond Sports, and what you

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Speaker 1: said is this was these were about nineteen of these

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Speaker 1: channels around the country and they were bought in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and the owner, Sinclair, took on an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: debt at what could be probably the worst time to

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Speaker 1: do it, because you're ray when the whole cable business

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Speaker 1: model starting to unravel with chord cutting. This company took

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Speaker 1: on over eight billion dollars in debt and has just

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Speaker 1: really struggled to keep paying teams for the broadcast rights

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Speaker 1: while managing this huge debt load, while losing more and

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Speaker 1: more subscribers to chord cutting. I'll never forget this. My father,

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Speaker 1: God rest his soul, and I still at the house

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to buy cable. This is like nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four, and my father reamed me a new one.

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Speaker 1: He said, boy, who in the hell would want to

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Speaker 1: pay for TV when it is free? Well then he

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Speaker 1: bought two satellite dishes later, and then you know, the

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Speaker 1: rest is history. My point is you got cable, then

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Speaker 1: you have the streaming services, and it goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: It's like, wait a minute, at least give me dinner

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Speaker 1: in a movie, because I mean, this is getting really expensive.

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Speaker 1: My son, who's at eighteen now, he said, at first

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Speaker 1: I was all for streaming, and now I'm feeling like, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. You know, did I get taken in this?

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Speaker 1: What's going on? Yeah? I mean what's happening is this

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Speaker 1: whole business is fragmenting. I mean they're used to everyone

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Speaker 1: for years and years complained about cable. Oh it's so expensive.

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Speaker 1: Now they're looking at cable as being kind of convenient,

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Speaker 1: because what's happening now is streaming. Take the Yankees, for example.

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Speaker 1: You have if you're a cord cutter, if you want

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Speaker 1: to watch Yankees games, you can subscribe to this new

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Speaker 1: streaming service they introduced, which is going to be twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars a month. Then you've got some games on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime, twenty games on Amazon Prime. And then you've

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Speaker 1: got these other players. Apple has some Major League Baseball games,

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Speaker 1: and BC Peacock has some Major League Baseball games. And

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Speaker 1: so it's a really fragmented landscape where you're now paying

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Speaker 1: a few dollars to this, you know company, and a

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Speaker 1: few dollars to this company, and it's it's just challenging

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Speaker 1: and expensive for the sports fan right now with all

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Speaker 1: these different streaming services and the game sort of spread

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Speaker 1: out on all these different places. When we used to

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Speaker 1: have cable where we just sat down in front of

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Speaker 1: the TV and we could flip around on a remote.

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Speaker 1: And I want to add is like I saw an ad.

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Speaker 1: He kind of insulted me. It was about the antenna,

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Speaker 1: is like, and you can get programming for free. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the way it starts. You have the antenna

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Speaker 1: to get free programming, then cable now the streaming services

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Speaker 1: at Scarlett. Hey, you know that's what your dad was

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Speaker 1: talking about. So, I mean, someone very Smart once said

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Speaker 1: that the history of media and content is all about

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Speaker 1: bundling and then unbundling, bundling and then unbundling. Right, we've

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Speaker 1: unbundled and now people are recognizing that there's value and bundling,

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Speaker 1: which is why Disney Plus an ESPN Plus end up

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Speaker 1: getting bundled together for a better price. So, Jerry, is

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Speaker 1: there anyone who's doing this well? Because one thing you

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Speaker 1: point out in your story on nests and three sixty

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Speaker 1: is that it's glitchy, So people who are paying thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars a month aren't even getting a superior product. Is

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Speaker 1: there anyone who's figured this out and is getting the

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Speaker 1: kind of subscriber growth that they had intended? Or is

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Speaker 1: everything kind of a mess right now? I think it's

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Speaker 1: still very early days. I think that these sports channels

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Speaker 1: it's not in their DNA to be technology companies, so

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Speaker 1: you know the amount of the playing catch up? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean think about the amount of engineers that Netflix

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Speaker 1: and some of these companies that are you know, this

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Speaker 1: is their business streaming and they do it really well.

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Speaker 1: The other thing you have to think about is live

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Speaker 1: sports is really hard. On streaming. It's much easier to

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Speaker 1: you know, have something on HBO Max or Netflix. That's

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Speaker 1: and it gets a little technical, but essentially live sports

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Speaker 1: is a lot more challenging to stream without glitches. So

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Speaker 1: you combine that with the fact that these are are

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Speaker 1: sports channels that it's not really they don't have the

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Speaker 1: manpower to really make this work. Yeah, you see a

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Speaker 1: lot of sports fans who are frustrated. You see examples

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Speaker 1: where the last minute of an exciting game, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden the stream crashes or buffers, and so it's

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Speaker 1: it's frustrating, and it's it's really challenging. It's a whole

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Speaker 1: nother technicol you know, from a technology's perspective, these channels

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Speaker 1: are still trying to figure this out. Jerry, personally, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how anyone would sit through pay thirty dollars

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Speaker 1: a month to sit through Red Sox and Bruins games

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Speaker 1: unless they're playing the Yankees or Rangers. But let's just

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Speaker 1: you know, humor me for this one minute. You know,

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Speaker 1: thirty dollars a month, I mean it's eleven dollars a

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Speaker 1: month for rs and add ons places like Fubo TV.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got Netflix, you mentioned all of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean Obviously there's still cable, you know, can we

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Speaker 1: expect that price to go down? And where can consumers

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Speaker 1: go to find the best way and the best price

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Speaker 1: for that matter, to see their favorite teams. I think

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Speaker 1: cable is going to be the best place that you're

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Speaker 1: going to as far as price goes. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: you have what's important understand is that the cable business

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Speaker 1: model was really a beautiful model where sports fans were

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Speaker 1: being subsidized by non sports fans. You were paying for

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Speaker 1: cable and you were paying for these regional sports channels

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Speaker 1: whether you watch them or not. And what we're now

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Speaker 1: seeing with these streaming services is a standalone streaming service

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Speaker 1: for the Yankees or the Red Sox has to cost

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Speaker 1: that kind of money to make up for the fact

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Speaker 1: that sports non sports fans are no longer subsidizing the

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Speaker 1: sports fans habits. So that's that's part of why these

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Speaker 1: these are priced at the number they are. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's sports rights. The cost of sports rights

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Speaker 1: keeps going up. We saw ESPN plus introduce m a

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Speaker 1: price increase last year, so they also have to make

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Speaker 1: these They're under a lot of pressure from Wall Street

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Speaker 1: to find profitability and it's really hard to do that

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Speaker 1: when you're six or seven dollars a month and you're

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Speaker 1: paying more and more to these sports leagues and to

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Speaker 1: these sports teams for the rights to broadcast these games. Speaking,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Oh, I was just gonna say, Damien, as

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Speaker 1: a father to teenagers, you and I both know that

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Speaker 1: there are teenagers who are all scouring Reddit looking for

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Speaker 1: illegal stream So there's there's definitely ways to watch the

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Speaker 1: game if you're willing to put up with a lot

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Speaker 1: of buffering. Yeah, Scarlett, I don't know about your teenagers,

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Speaker 1: but I just have to say, you know, I have

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Speaker 1: teenagers who decide that they want to watch something right

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Speaker 1: then and there, and then they say yes to the

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Speaker 1: thirty dollars a month without me knowing until the end

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Speaker 1: of the month. And I don't know how many thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars a months I have, right So you stop? I mean,

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Speaker 1: at what point does it stop? Speaking of Reddit? That's

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Speaker 1: your face when you find out, man, that you paid

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Speaker 1: the extra thirty dollars. I mean, look, there's another angle

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Speaker 1: to what's happening in Major League Baseball, And we were

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Speaker 1: talking about this before we went on the air. Now

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Speaker 1: MLB rookies will wear a patch that will debut when

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Speaker 1: they make it to the big leagues and is going

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Speaker 1: straight to the collectibles market. Our fellow Bloomberg comrade Kim

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Speaker 1: Bissin wrote this recently. I mean, is this going to

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Speaker 1: take off? In your mind that because Tops is involved

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Speaker 1: in it and they're going to authent kate the patch,

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Speaker 1: it'll only be worn that one time when they make

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Speaker 1: the debuts. Do you think this is going to get over? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is something where Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball is just trying to find as many new revenue

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Speaker 1: streams as they possibly can, especially when this whole TV

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Speaker 1: business is so uncertain. So yeah, they're looking at everything. Really,

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Speaker 1: I think sports betting is something that the industry and

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Speaker 1: the sports leagues are hoping is going to be a

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Speaker 1: growing source of revenue. Yeah. I mean, I think that

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really fascinating this season. I'm personally

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Speaker 1: really interested in this pitch clock and seeing whether the

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Speaker 1: games are suddenly shorter. I think that Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: is really hoping that more and more fans will tune

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Speaker 1: in if they believe that the game is not going

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Speaker 1: to go on for three four hours or more So,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's the end of the shift is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole new set of new rules this year.

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Speaker 1: The pizza box. It's a box base bases. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be really fascinating to see what

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Speaker 1: that does for viewership attendance. You know, that's certainly what

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball is hoping for this year. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to give you a secret number of the week everybody's in.

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Speaker 1: You talk about the pitch clock. It's fifteen seconds if

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Speaker 1: there are no runners on base, and it's twenty seconds

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Speaker 1: if there is a runner at least one, so enough

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Speaker 1: time for the picture to side eye the runner like

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Speaker 1: twice before he then winds up. Yeah, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be interesting. I'd like to see this. By the way,

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Speaker 1: there's another angle and now, and I am very happy

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Speaker 1: about this. Major League Baseball they have reached with the

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Speaker 1: union a five year agreement, according to what the sources

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Speaker 1: say out there, with minor leaguers, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: get double the pay of what they had and you know,

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Speaker 1: which is very good. And for example, it's if you

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Speaker 1: play Triple A Bowl, your salary is going to go

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Speaker 1: from seventeen thousand, five hundred dollars to thirty five thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars. That should have happened, Jerry Along, you're

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Speaker 1: making seventeen thousand, that's that was it. Yeah, that's really

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Speaker 1: shocking how low they were getting paid. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's that's a I mean thirty nine. Now you know

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Speaker 1: why Rob Manfred's auctioning off little patches on people's uniforms. Yeah, wow,

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Speaker 1: seventeen thousand, that's you know, good for you guys. By

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Speaker 1: the way, and a lot of the players will also

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Speaker 1: get guaranteed housing. So that's that's good because on a

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Speaker 1: seventeen thousand dollars salar you no, sorry, thirty five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars sllar, you still can't get housing. No, you can't

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Speaker 1: even get you can't even get anything here in New

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Speaker 1: York on thirty five thousand get lunch? No? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I thank you both. Onto something here. I think we

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Speaker 1: can expect to see the next Netflix series is going

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Speaker 1: to be on following minor league baseball players as they

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Speaker 1: moved from single ap up into the mains. It's not

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Speaker 1: a bad idea, Damien. Oh see, now you came up

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Speaker 1: with idea. Man. It's like, you know, now we can

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Speaker 1: make money. Not all the great stories have been told,

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Speaker 1: oh Man, Jerry Smith. Thank you our own Bloomberg Jerry Smith.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your knowledge, Siria, and for educating us.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate it. This has been the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast. We explore some of the big money issues

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Speaker 1: in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. You can

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Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports and I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Scarlett Fool and I'm on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: decast Hour. Thank you so much for joining us. Tune

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Speaker 1: in again next week for the latest on the stories

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Speaker 1: moving big old money in the world of sports. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Show from Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio around the world.