Speaker 1: Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2: I got a phone call and this guy says, I
Speaker 2: know where you're at. You're in the kitchen and you're
Speaker 2: wearing this. Keith states that he hired somewhat.
Speaker 3: My mom had just said that her and my dad
Speaker 3: were separating, which I did believe.
Speaker 2: I wanted to keep like you guys's baby pictures, and
Speaker 2: he chucked out all up.
Speaker 4: He wasn't exactly a faithful lust.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely not tell me about your wedding day. They
Speaker 2: were doing pictures of me, and I guess he was
Speaker 2: outside kissing the bridesmaids, my best friend.
Speaker 5: After the second murder, the Happy Face killer says he
Speaker 5: realized he liked what he was doing.
Speaker 6: This triggered something in me. He said, it was getting easy,
Speaker 6: real easy.
Speaker 2: The first year with Melissa had went through two fires.
Speaker 6: Keith Tait.
Speaker 2: The vent I had a little toilet cover and it
Speaker 2: caught it on fire, and the whole bathroom was in golf.
Speaker 2: Then shortly after that we go camping and then I
Speaker 2: heard a bear. He cleaned fish in front of the
Speaker 2: cabin and he was sleeping in the car.
Speaker 4: He started killing in nineteen ninety and he stopped in
Speaker 4: ninety five.
Speaker 3: The five years is not an isolated event.
Speaker 7: It was an escalation.
Speaker 2: I think he was groomed to be who he is.
Speaker 7: In the vite, in the fight with the Sun.
Speaker 8: I don't know, shine o.
Speaker 9: Shiver oh.
Speaker 2: Through.
Speaker 4: One of the biggest questions you're faced with when looking
Speaker 4: at the lives of serial killers is where did it
Speaker 4: all begin? What makes a person become a killer? Is
Speaker 4: it something that's passed down through generations or is there
Speaker 4: a single moment that can turn someone from a normal
Speaker 4: human being with a job and a family into a monster?
Speaker 4: Are serial killers made or are they born? I'm Lauren
Speaker 4: brad Pacheco, and this is happy face.
Speaker 8: I remember the first time I saw my father in prison,
Speaker 8: and the first thing he said to me was Missy,
Speaker 8: do you want.
Speaker 9: To know why?
Speaker 7: And at the time, I couldn't.
Speaker 8: I couldn't handle the answer, and honestly, I thought whatever
Speaker 8: he was going to tell me would be just him
Speaker 8: trying to justify what he's done or to minimize what
Speaker 8: he's done, and so I didn't want some pacifying answer.
Speaker 7: So I said no.
Speaker 8: And I regretted that moment for so many years now
Speaker 8: because I want to know why.
Speaker 9: Why about my father had.
Speaker 8: An interest in crime was because he wanted to become
Speaker 8: a police officer in Canada. He wanted to be a Mountie,
Speaker 8: and he was declined from becoming that because of an
Speaker 8: injury he sustained in high school. What he told me
Speaker 8: is that in gym class, they do this rope exercise
Speaker 8: where they climb the rope to the ceiling of the gym,
Speaker 8: which is quite high.
Speaker 2: They say, now when they interview killers, people who've been
Speaker 2: perpetually in jail, they have found that a large percentage
Speaker 2: of them had damaged their frontal lobe before they were
Speaker 2: twenty two, changes their whole personality. Keith fell in high school.
Speaker 2: I believe it was twenty five feet. He was on
Speaker 2: the very top of the rope and I let go.
Speaker 2: He fell to the gym floor.
Speaker 8: He sustained a head injury and broke his hip, and
Speaker 8: this impacted his ability to join the force. I don't
Speaker 8: believe my dad ever got over that. It was something
Speaker 8: that he carried on in conversations, that there was a
Speaker 8: sense of resentment that he was now a long haul
Speaker 8: truck driver when he could have.
Speaker 7: Had this other life that was just out of his grasp.
Speaker 4: But as Melissa's mom, Rose told us, She really thinks
Speaker 4: that Keith was conditioned to be a killer, groomed to
Speaker 4: be one by his own father less, and that's something
Speaker 4: we felt we had to explore.
Speaker 1: From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen,
Speaker 1: The Jesperson children grew up in a rural atmosphere, first
Speaker 1: in Chiliwack, British Columbia, later two hundred and fifty miles
Speaker 1: south in Sale, Washington, an apple scented orchard community of
Speaker 1: ten thousand. Keith's perpetually mobile father built the family's Chiliwack
Speaker 1: home on land as ancestors homestead, and in nineteen oh
Speaker 1: nine moved the house from the city to a pastoral
Speaker 1: area outside of town. Cleared five acres with a borrowed bulldozer,
Speaker 1: built a barn with a loft for his children and
Speaker 1: a wooden bridge big enough for the family horses to
Speaker 1: cross the little creek that rose from the springs above
Speaker 1: the property line. Later, he damned the creek and built
Speaker 1: a water wheel to trap chinook and silver salmon as
Speaker 1: they swam up from the Vetter River to spawn.
Speaker 4: If you read jack Olson's biography of Keith, the way
Speaker 4: in which he describes Keith's father less It's very clear
Speaker 4: that Less was a very resourceful, ingenious man, the kind
Speaker 4: of guy who could build a barn from scratch or
Speaker 4: create a water wheel to catch fish for dinner. But
Speaker 4: what also is clear is that he could be a monster.
Speaker 2: We decided that we didn't want to live near your
Speaker 2: grandfather anymore.
Speaker 6: Why he was horrible. I hated him. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He would without warning, open up the door to our
Speaker 2: house and he goes, we just sleep.
Speaker 8: With me to you, to me, I had no idea.
Speaker 4: Yeah, your father in law, Yes, your father in law
Speaker 4: hit on you, yes, more than once, Like well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be I'd be sitting right next to
Speaker 2: Keith and he would come and he'd pinch me, and
Speaker 2: I was thinking, Keith, what are you doing? And then
Speaker 2: I see his hand and they start giggling. I don't
Speaker 2: know who I was more angry with Keith for not
Speaker 2: protecting me or for Less for doing it.
Speaker 4: So you think Keith knew his father would make passes
Speaker 4: at you.
Speaker 2: Well he was right there, and they thought it was
Speaker 2: a joke. And the only time I was saved is
Speaker 2: when I was pregnant with Melissa. Then I was off
Speaker 2: the tables.
Speaker 4: Keith's attitude towards marriage very much mirrored the relationship he
Speaker 4: saw unfold between his own father and his mother, Gladys.
Speaker 7: I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Knew that last beat the kids a lot. I don't
Speaker 2: know if he beat Gladys or not, but I know
Speaker 2: that there was problems between Gladys and least because when
Speaker 2: we were for married, Keith goes, I have to go
Speaker 2: down to the house and they go okay. So he
Speaker 2: went down to the house, came back and he was
Speaker 2: really visibly upset. I said, so what went on? He goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: mom and dad got in a fight, and I guess
Speaker 2: dad cut every telephone wire in the house.
Speaker 7: Was less a drinker.
Speaker 2: He was a heavy alcoholic.
Speaker 4: One of the few people that Keith opened up to
Speaker 4: about his childhood was a true crime author and psychologist
Speaker 4: named al Carlyle. Melissa met him almost completely by chance.
Speaker 8: I was invited to go to crime con and this
Speaker 8: gentleman approached the booth and he said, hey, you know,
Speaker 8: I've got this author who's working on serial killers. And
Speaker 8: he said, well, his name is al Carlyle and he
Speaker 8: studied Ted Bundy and he's working on a chapter of
Speaker 8: the serial killer named Keith Hunter. Jesperson so when I
Speaker 8: got that calm, I called him immediately, and I loved
Speaker 8: his perspective. He had stories that I've never even heard
Speaker 8: of before about the man I thought I knew.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, the night before we were supposed to interview Al Carlyle,
Speaker 4: he passed away in his sleep, and it was heartbreaking.
Speaker 4: He was such a fascinating, brilliant man. But we were
Speaker 4: able to reach out to Stephen Booth, his publisher, and
Speaker 4: also to Carrie Ann Keller, who was his researcher and
Speaker 4: writing assistant.
Speaker 10: Keith felt that I had a real mission to understand
Speaker 10: bylent behavior, so that was their common ground. They each
Speaker 10: felt the other could provide valuable information. Once Al was
Speaker 10: up there interviewing Keith, and Keith said to Al, I
Speaker 10: could reach over this table and snap your head before
Speaker 10: the guard would even notice. I don't because I don't
Speaker 10: want to lose my privileges. He wasn't threatening Al, he
Speaker 10: was just making a point about his size. Okay, So
Speaker 10: that's how you have to understand how Keith could talk.
Speaker 7: So it's like.
Speaker 4: Being in a room with a loaded gun.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, for sure, definitely you feel it.
Speaker 11: My name is Stephen Booth. I have been the publisher
Speaker 11: at Genius Book Publishing since twenty eleven. Keith Jefferson was
Speaker 11: in a situation where he had a very manipulative father.
Speaker 11: The father, by the way, freaks me out. He had
Speaker 11: a very manipulative father. He was required to be obedient
Speaker 11: at all times, he was given conflicting information about what
Speaker 11: ethical standards were and how to behave, and he was
Speaker 11: isolated from his family, even by his own siblings.
Speaker 4: What's incredible, though, is that Al Carlisle's family gave us
Speaker 4: the tapes of his interviews with Jessperson in prison, and
Speaker 4: you can hear the intimate details and how much Keith
Speaker 4: opened up to him.
Speaker 6: Brad the older, Brad was a younger. Bruce is the oldest.
Speaker 6: When did they start calling you? Igor?
Speaker 5: Was my junior high I was in eighth grade, and
Speaker 5: then Brad was in the seventh grade and he wanted
Speaker 5: to be big with his friends, so he started calling
Speaker 5: me Igor because of the Monster movies, and I figured
Speaker 5: out was his psidekick. I was big physically at the
Speaker 5: time and slow slow physically.
Speaker 6: Well, I was. I was. I was big, and I
Speaker 6: was not very well co ordinated.
Speaker 5: No, not really intelligent. I'm very intelligent. But I just
Speaker 5: didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 11: Keith was made to pay his own room and board
Speaker 11: when the other kids were not made to do that,
Speaker 11: so he would be an example to the other siblings.
Speaker 4: And this was when he was twelve thirteen years old, precisely.
Speaker 11: Yes, you know, the father forced him to work. He
Speaker 11: got paid a pittance. Most of that money went back
Speaker 11: to roomin to board, and whatever was left over the
Speaker 11: father basically took out of the bank account. And whenever
Speaker 11: he got into trouble, everybody pointed the finger at Keith.
Speaker 11: His siblings did, his father did, his friends did. He
Speaker 11: was isolated, harboring a lot of resentment, violent rage like
Speaker 11: resentment towards his father. And I mean, what was that
Speaker 11: story about him, the boy when he was about eight
Speaker 11: years old who kept blaming him for things and then
Speaker 11: Keith let loose and tried to beat him to death.
Speaker 6: Oh, I have a memory that kid young.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was just he was every time he would say,
Speaker 5: well Keith did this, and Keith did that, and I'd
Speaker 5: get the belt and I'd get nailed and I'd get
Speaker 5: punished and so forth, he'd sit back laugh hah ha ha,
Speaker 5: this is funny. And one day, I caught him off
Speaker 5: the back door when he was ready to scream Keith
Speaker 5: did it and I was beating him, damn or to death.
Speaker 6: You're old when I was about eight years old at
Speaker 6: the time, when you were eating the kid, did you
Speaker 6: feel you're in control? Did you just lose it with
Speaker 6: his song? I just lost it. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 5: I don't think they had anything to do with control,
Speaker 5: and just had paybacks a bitch, you know. And I
Speaker 5: just grabbed him and just started wailing him. Of course
Speaker 5: I didn't know him to stop. I was going to
Speaker 5: beat him to death.
Speaker 11: He was put in a position where he could not win,
Speaker 11: and he could not take his rage out on his
Speaker 11: father because father I had have dialed in. So he
Speaker 11: took his rage out on the closest person to him,
Speaker 11: who was embarrassing him.
Speaker 6: You know, I sure taught him elast him. So even
Speaker 6: by the age of eight, there was a lot of anger.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was anger there angers, Yeah you do me wrong.
Speaker 6: It was like, yeah, I was you doing me wrong?
Speaker 6: I was I was gonna. I was bounding and determined
Speaker 6: to get even from I.
Speaker 1: The creation of a serial killer by Jack Olsen, sometimes
Speaker 1: the Jesperson males proud the creek banks for muskrats. I'd
Speaker 1: yank one out of the water by its tail and
Speaker 1: throw it up on the bank. Then Dad or one
Speaker 1: of my brothers would club it to death. We also
Speaker 1: killed gophers, hundreds of them. They were a farm pest
Speaker 1: and nobody missed them. Dad has films of us boys
Speaker 1: blood splattered from k killing gophers and other varmints. It
Speaker 1: was our form of recreation. After we grew up and
Speaker 1: got married, Dad liked to show the film to our wives.
Speaker 1: He would joke watch my natural born killers as they
Speaker 1: dispense of their victims. You don't want to run into
Speaker 1: them in a dark alley.
Speaker 7: Based on their jail health interview. What did al make
Speaker 7: of my dad's childhood.
Speaker 10: He was fascinated by his passivity, you know, Keith's passivity
Speaker 10: as a child. This dichonomous behavior of a shy and
Speaker 10: passive child who becomes fully the opposite as an adult
Speaker 10: was very interesting to him. He understood how Keith was
Speaker 10: bitter about the control his father had over him. He
Speaker 10: knew he wasn't able to stand up to his father's dominance,
Speaker 10: but Keith accepted it, you know, as his lot.
Speaker 9: In life and he kind of liked it because well
Speaker 9: he did full trapped by his father. He was afraid
Speaker 9: of his father. He also had a strong desire to
Speaker 9: have his dad love him.
Speaker 8: I feared my grandfather like even though he never hit me,
Speaker 8: I was terrified at my grandfather being angry with me
Speaker 8: because I don't know what he would do.
Speaker 7: Maybe even know about the motorcycle story.
Speaker 9: I do. I do. So he has this motorcycle, Keith
Speaker 9: that he saved up money for a brand new motorcycle. Okay,
Speaker 9: it's not a piece of junk like from cobble together Junkyard.
Speaker 5: And I had bought it in a seven p fifty
Speaker 5: hand a motorcycle. It was a seventy four brand new
Speaker 5: gold Mati orange, you know, like a bright orange colored.
Speaker 6: It was a beautiful bike.
Speaker 5: And it came hunting season and I was working for
Speaker 5: Dad at the time, and Brad and I wanted to
Speaker 5: go hunting over on the coast by Klama. Of course,
Speaker 5: we need a four wheel drive and I was gonna
Speaker 5: use the company pickup. Well, I said, Dad, can I
Speaker 5: use the company pick up? And he says, shirkey, But
Speaker 5: one stipulation and I knew was coming, and he says,
Speaker 5: you leave me your motorcycle so I could go on
Speaker 5: a motorcycle ride with that. And I said no, because
Speaker 5: you're gonna get drunk and you're gonna get on it
Speaker 5: and you're gonna wreck the bike.
Speaker 6: Oh I am gonna drink. And I said no, I
Speaker 6: false promises.
Speaker 5: You know, well, in order for me to get to
Speaker 5: pick up, I had to give him the bike. So
Speaker 5: I get to pick up, and I load up and
Speaker 5: the Honting supplies and we take off over the Klama.
Speaker 5: We have a hell of a nice time all weekend long.
Speaker 5: I got in the morning on Monday morning, I go
Speaker 5: back to the dump truck in the backyard. We have
Speaker 5: a swimming pool to dig that day. And I walked
Speaker 5: through the back door and I said, where the hell's
Speaker 5: dad at? And we got this swimming pool to dig
Speaker 5: over here, And Mom said, oh, you don't know.
Speaker 6: He says he wrecked the motorcycle. He's in the hospital.
Speaker 4: And I guess Keith was on an architect trip or something.
Speaker 4: What happened when he came back, do you know?
Speaker 2: Well, then Keith had to run the businesses. He had
Speaker 2: to do everything. He was the sole provider for two families.
Speaker 2: His dad and mine.
Speaker 6: Ours, and so I call up the company there.
Speaker 5: The people that were going to do the swimming pool
Speaker 5: told me I wouldn't be there. My dad's in the
Speaker 5: hospital and I have to go take care of business.
Speaker 5: So I go to Sainte's hospital and there he his
Speaker 5: dad up there on the floor and he's they operated
Speaker 5: on reports blane and his face is all bandaged up,
Speaker 5: kind of nose and down are off.
Speaker 2: He hit a bob wire and I cut up his intestines.
Speaker 2: He has a big stars. He had a big scar
Speaker 2: in his face.
Speaker 5: I get up there and he's like looked at me,
Speaker 5: and I said, well, what happened?
Speaker 6: Daddy?
Speaker 12: You gotta you gotta get back that motorcycle you got.
Speaker 12: You gotta take care of all the evidence. Keith, you
Speaker 12: gotta take care of it. I said, what what do
Speaker 12: you mean to take care of us? Go get rid
Speaker 12: of it. So you've been drinkingnoyment? He said, just take
Speaker 12: care of it way you said, we.
Speaker 5: Don't want that insurance company knowing that I was riding drunk.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: Did Keith drink No?
Speaker 7: No, it was absolutely like no alcohol. He was the
Speaker 7: only one out of all my aunts and uncle said,
Speaker 7: didn't drink at all. I I grew up and you
Speaker 7: didn't drink either. You and dad didn't drink at all.
Speaker 2: And I'm growing up no, because my father was an
Speaker 2: alcoholic too, and so you either choose it or you don't.
Speaker 2: And I chose not to. And that's your dad chose
Speaker 2: not to drink either.
Speaker 5: But I get up to my dad and I sat
Speaker 5: up to the hospital and my mom's there, and I said, well, Dad,
Speaker 5: I got rid of all that. And he said, good good,
Speaker 5: good goodness. Now, why were you drinking on my motor
Speaker 5: my motorcycle? Says I wasn't drinking on your motorcycle. Yes,
Speaker 5: your word, he says, prove it. You can't prove it.
Speaker 5: So you got rid of all the evidence, so you
Speaker 5: can't prove shit.
Speaker 8: I'll give you your Cota Molliqua for your lotter olive.
Speaker 6: You drunk of all up?
Speaker 5: Whoa, And that's basically how it all lands up, says
Speaker 5: everything is.
Speaker 6: I was covering up everything. I said. I was like
Speaker 6: eighteen at that time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Less basically made Keith go hide the evidence so that
Speaker 4: he could get insurance money that it didn't know.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't surprise me because LUs was very famous for that.
Speaker 5: His business ethics of that was that the boss was
Speaker 5: always right and the employees were always wrong, which.
Speaker 6: Man the employee took the heat. Yes, it did, and
Speaker 6: I'm just getting to that.
Speaker 5: His idea was that if there's any problems that occurred
Speaker 5: on the job, that I would get shit on and
Speaker 5: he would get the glory of saying I'm sorry or
Speaker 5: whatever like that. I'll it'll never happen, you know, I'll
Speaker 5: just make sure my son never does this stuff again.
Speaker 6: So I was like the blueted an idiot, you know,
Speaker 6: and doing all that.
Speaker 5: And I kind of laughed one day because my dad
Speaker 5: was on the bacco when he was digging next to
Speaker 5: his house and he put the bucket right through the
Speaker 5: side of the house. He has no depth perception. That
Speaker 5: was one of his problems. That he stuck the bucket
Speaker 5: to the side of the house. And the people were
Speaker 5: in the house and they were looking out and they
Speaker 5: saw him running thebacco right and they come running out
Speaker 5: of the corner. But by the time they got around
Speaker 5: to who the bacca was, he'd already stop machine.
Speaker 6: And he'd gotten me on that. And they were looking at.
Speaker 5: Him and looked at me, and I said, I did it,
Speaker 5: and they were like, why do you put up with that?
Speaker 6: I said, that's the way it is. I am the
Speaker 6: ship on.
Speaker 2: Less told him this is the way what you're going
Speaker 2: to say in court, and Keith did in order for
Speaker 2: them to win a court case for the motilepart line
Speaker 2: or absolutely did it.
Speaker 4: Seems like he wasn't the most honest man.
Speaker 2: No, no, he wasn't. He swindled people. I called him
Speaker 2: a swindler, and he had a really good lawyer.
Speaker 11: My understanding is that, how do I say this? Left
Speaker 11: to his own devices, Keith would have been a pretty
Speaker 11: happy kid. He described his childhood as being fairly happy,
Speaker 11: and he would have probably not Harvard as much rage.
Speaker 11: He probably would have been somebody who got along with people.
Speaker 11: But from al to me, from Keith to tell to me,
Speaker 11: his childhood was more a matter of he was the target.
Speaker 11: He was the scapegoat, for lack of a better word,
Speaker 11: of everybody's need to avoid Less's rage or manipulation or
Speaker 11: whatever it is. He had nobody backing him up, and
Speaker 11: he didn't even know how to back himself up, so
Speaker 11: all he could do was absorb all this negative energy
Speaker 11: about everything that was going on.
Speaker 4: There's an interview with your dad about your grandfather made
Speaker 4: him go visit a friend of your grandfather's who was dying,
Speaker 4: and your dad was really resentful because he had to
Speaker 4: go sit and make conversations with his dying man, because
Speaker 4: your grandfather said nobody should have to die alone. And
Speaker 4: your dad was talking to the guy before he realized
Speaker 4: he had already passed away.
Speaker 3: I had no idea about this.
Speaker 1: Dad still treated me like the run of the litter,
Speaker 1: Daddy's little helper. He dragged me to a nursing home
Speaker 1: to visit one of his hunting buddies. He said, my
Speaker 1: friend Smitty's not doing too good with his lung cancer. Keith,
Speaker 1: I'm going out in the hall talk to him, son.
Speaker 1: Nobody likes to die alone. I'm sitting there listening to
Speaker 1: the rattley breathing, watching his life draane out. After a while,
Speaker 1: Smitty goes limp. I'm holding his hand for ten or
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes before I realize he's dead. On our way home,
Speaker 1: he said, Keith, someday you'll thank me for putting you
Speaker 1: through this. I never feared a dead person after that.
Speaker 1: When I was killing, I'd talked to my victims as
Speaker 1: if they were still alive. It was something to thank
Speaker 1: to add for.
Speaker 3: My dad was really good about telling his story, his narrative,
Speaker 3: and he'd be everybody to the punch and it would
Speaker 3: just when his story came forward, people always judged everybody
Speaker 3: else's tail against what he had to say. My dad
Speaker 3: had ownership, like the truth was his. He owned the
Speaker 3: truth and it was not debatable. His air of certainty
Speaker 3: definitely played a part in other people believing in him
Speaker 3: and why probably his victims believed in him and trusted
Speaker 3: him over their own voices. He exuded confidence and certainty
Speaker 3: and whatever he said was truth and you can rely
Speaker 3: upon it and you could trust it, but.
Speaker 9: Not really.
Speaker 11: May I ask a question, Yes, why is it that
Speaker 11: when Rose left Keith and took the kids, she went
Speaker 11: over to Lesson's house?
Speaker 9: What do you mean?
Speaker 11: The story that I got was when she left and
Speaker 11: emptied the house, the first place she went was Less's house.
Speaker 11: That is a direct quote from the history that I
Speaker 11: was reading this morning, and I can share that with
Speaker 11: you if you need me to.
Speaker 4: From from Keith.
Speaker 11: Yeah, Oh, that's that's that's the story that I got.
Speaker 11: It could be wrong, but that's the story that that
Speaker 11: AL got.
Speaker 7: That's interesting that he would say that I was there
Speaker 7: that didn't happen. Okay, I was there the day that
Speaker 7: they left. That would make sense that my dad was
Speaker 7: shared that's story to shame my mother and put her
Speaker 7: into that frame of light.
Speaker 11: Oh.
Speaker 7: I actually remember play by play, minute by minute of
Speaker 7: that day that they separated, And there was not one
Speaker 7: single time that we went over to my grandparents' house.
Speaker 7: Matter of fact, they were gone, and there was not
Speaker 7: anything that we cleaned out in that property because we
Speaker 7: left in the four Topaz, which is just a little
Speaker 7: family sedan. We didn't take a single item from that
Speaker 7: house other than the clothes that we needed for like
Speaker 7: a couple days. Wow.
Speaker 11: So that is not the story that I got from
Speaker 11: al from Keith. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 7: So that's interesting that he came up with this this
Speaker 7: new story, a new spin.
Speaker 6: What happened?
Speaker 11: Well, I'm glad I asked, because honestly, I bought the
Speaker 11: story that Keith gave out. You know, I mean, it
Speaker 11: seemed reasonable. She left, she took everything, whether she went
Speaker 11: over to the father's house. Some of this is fantasy.
Speaker 11: Some of this is making Keith feel better about himself.
Speaker 11: So how truthful, was he without?
Speaker 5: Now it's all right to lie, it's all right to
Speaker 5: be gnising and so forth.
Speaker 6: You can. You can do that because you're an adult,
Speaker 6: you know you can do that. But when you're a kid,
Speaker 6: you can't lie to your parents.
Speaker 13: You know, because you know he called, you know he
Speaker 13: would call on hokus And I remember you comforting me
Speaker 13: after one particular phone call where we were living on
Speaker 13: a street over here.
Speaker 7: And he called and said he was suicidal because of
Speaker 7: having paiy child support. And then he because it was
Speaker 7: such a burden for him, and it made me upset
Speaker 7: because I felt blamed. He's blaming me for having a
Speaker 7: pay child support. But then it went another step further.
Speaker 7: He said, you know, I drove past the prison today,
Speaker 7: the organ State Prison. I just like chewed my horn
Speaker 7: and said I'll be there soon, as we said in
Speaker 7: the call. But I remember crying and going to my
Speaker 7: room and you came after me. You're like, what's wrong, Melissa,
Speaker 7: And I said, you know, Doug said he's going to
Speaker 7: kill himself. And you got so mad, you got so bad,
Speaker 7: you stormed out of my room. You called him back up,
Speaker 7: and you said you you saw have a bitch I
Speaker 7: heard you'd like. That was the first time I ever
Speaker 7: saw you mad. You're like because I really.
Speaker 2: Felt the whole time he was playing on us. You know,
Speaker 2: I got pit child support, so.
Speaker 7: You I separated in nineteen ninety and then he how
Speaker 7: did you find out in nineteen ninety five? Didn't you
Speaker 7: receive a letter from him?
Speaker 2: I received a letter maybe a week before he got arrested.
Speaker 2: And in this letter it said, Rose, what I did
Speaker 2: is bigger than O. J.
Speaker 6: Simpson.
Speaker 2: He said, I'll probably be in hell forever Keith, and
Speaker 2: I thought, you are so full of crap. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: it's what this is supposed to mean? Right, shredded a
Speaker 2: piece through in the trash directly to you. It was
Speaker 2: directly to me.
Speaker 7: I didn't say anything about us kids.
Speaker 2: It just was like, I did something bigger than oh J.
Speaker 6: Simpson gentle.
Speaker 7: So you know God is a man, gentle.
Speaker 2: Man, so you know God is a ansome. I like
Speaker 2: Beddy good poet God. That's song. So gots it's back
Speaker 2: Genzl people.
Speaker 6: Who we was.
Speaker 1: Oh Happy Face is a production of How Stuff For
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright, Pacheco, Mangesh Hatiketour
Speaker 1: and Will Pearson. Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by
Speaker 1: Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer.
Speaker 1: Story editor is Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays
Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chicogne. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper, and
Speaker 1: the Carlisle family.