WEBVTT - Keith 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:03.160 Previously on Happy Face. 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.240 I got a phone call and this guy says, I 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.400 know where you're at. You're in the kitchen and you're 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.520 wearing this. Keith states that he hired somewhat. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.200 My mom had just said that her and my dad 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.000 were separating, which I did believe. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.680 I wanted to keep like you guys's baby pictures, and 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:23.439 he chucked out all up. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.959 He wasn't exactly a faithful lust. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.560 Oh absolutely not tell me about your wedding day. They 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.000 were doing pictures of me, and I guess he was 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.040 outside kissing the bridesmaids, my best friend. 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.479 After the second murder, the Happy Face killer says he 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.280 realized he liked what he was doing. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.519 This triggered something in me. He said, it was getting easy, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:46.800 real easy. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.680 The first year with Melissa had went through two fires. 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:52.080 Keith Tait. 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.000 The vent I had a little toilet cover and it 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.680 caught it on fire, and the whole bathroom was in golf. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:04.399 Then shortly after that we go camping and then I 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.000 heard a bear. He cleaned fish in front of the 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.160 cabin and he was sleeping in the car. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.360 He started killing in nineteen ninety and he stopped in 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:14.080 ninety five. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.399 The five years is not an isolated event. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:17.360 It was an escalation. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.520 I think he was groomed to be who he is. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:27.840 In the vite, in the fight with the Sun. 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.800 I don't know, shine o. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.240 Shiver oh. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:37.880 Through. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.840 One of the biggest questions you're faced with when looking 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.040 at the lives of serial killers is where did it 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.240 all begin? What makes a person become a killer? Is 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.600 it something that's passed down through generations or is there 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.360 a single moment that can turn someone from a normal 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.080 human being with a job and a family into a monster? 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.919 Are serial killers made or are they born? I'm Lauren 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.640 brad Pacheco, and this is happy face. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.040 I remember the first time I saw my father in prison, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.200 and the first thing he said to me was Missy, 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:30.680 do you want. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:31.840 To know why? 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.200 And at the time, I couldn't. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.880 I couldn't handle the answer, and honestly, I thought whatever 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.040 he was going to tell me would be just him 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.840 trying to justify what he's done or to minimize what 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.120 he's done, and so I didn't want some pacifying answer. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:54.080 So I said no. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.600 And I regretted that moment for so many years now 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.680 because I want to know why. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:16.840 Why about my father had. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.760 An interest in crime was because he wanted to become 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.000 a police officer in Canada. He wanted to be a Mountie, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.040 and he was declined from becoming that because of an 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.240 injury he sustained in high school. What he told me 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.560 is that in gym class, they do this rope exercise 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.360 where they climb the rope to the ceiling of the gym, 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.400 which is quite high. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.960 They say, now when they interview killers, people who've been 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.040 perpetually in jail, they have found that a large percentage 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.800 of them had damaged their frontal lobe before they were 0:03:53.800 --> 0:04:00.000 twenty two, changes their whole personality. Keith fell in high school. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.840 I believe it was twenty five feet. He was on 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.560 the very top of the rope and I let go. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.400 He fell to the gym floor. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.760 He sustained a head injury and broke his hip, and 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:19.000 this impacted his ability to join the force. I don't 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.840 believe my dad ever got over that. It was something 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.000 that he carried on in conversations, that there was a 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.440 sense of resentment that he was now a long haul 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:31.680 truck driver when he could have. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:36.760 Had this other life that was just out of his grasp. 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.320 But as Melissa's mom, Rose told us, She really thinks 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.719 that Keith was conditioned to be a killer, groomed to 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.119 be one by his own father less, and that's something 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:02.880 we felt we had to explore. 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.120 From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.080 The Jesperson children grew up in a rural atmosphere, first 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.320 in Chiliwack, British Columbia, later two hundred and fifty miles 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.240 south in Sale, Washington, an apple scented orchard community of 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:23.240 ten thousand. Keith's perpetually mobile father built the family's Chiliwack 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.160 home on land as ancestors homestead, and in nineteen oh 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.200 nine moved the house from the city to a pastoral 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.159 area outside of town. Cleared five acres with a borrowed bulldozer, 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.000 built a barn with a loft for his children and 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.560 a wooden bridge big enough for the family horses to 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.080 cross the little creek that rose from the springs above 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:45.280 the property line. Later, he damned the creek and built 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.520 a water wheel to trap chinook and silver salmon as 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.680 they swam up from the Vetter River to spawn. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.960 If you read jack Olson's biography of Keith, the way 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.839 in which he describes Keith's father less It's very clear 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:10.320 that Less was a very resourceful, ingenious man, the kind 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.840 of guy who could build a barn from scratch or 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.440 create a water wheel to catch fish for dinner. But 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.880 what also is clear is that he could be a monster. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.480 We decided that we didn't want to live near your 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:27.520 grandfather anymore. 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:33.760 Why he was horrible. I hated him. Really. Yeah. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.200 He would without warning, open up the door to our 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.520 house and he goes, we just sleep. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.359 With me to you, to me, I had no idea. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.360 Yeah, your father in law, Yes, your father in law 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.920 hit on you, yes, more than once, Like well. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.159 Yeah, I would be I'd be sitting right next to 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.520 Keith and he would come and he'd pinch me, and 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.560 I was thinking, Keith, what are you doing? And then 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.679 I see his hand and they start giggling. I don't 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.240 know who I was more angry with Keith for not 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.240 protecting me or for Less for doing it. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.160 So you think Keith knew his father would make passes 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:12.480 at you. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.520 Well he was right there, and they thought it was 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.200 a joke. And the only time I was saved is 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.760 when I was pregnant with Melissa. Then I was off 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.080 the tables. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:39.280 Keith's attitude towards marriage very much mirrored the relationship he 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.400 saw unfold between his own father and his mother, Gladys. 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:45.720 I mean, I. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:50.600 Knew that last beat the kids a lot. I don't 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.040 know if he beat Gladys or not, but I know 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:59.520 that there was problems between Gladys and least because when 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.200 we were for married, Keith goes, I have to go 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.080 down to the house and they go okay. So he 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.760 went down to the house, came back and he was 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.560 really visibly upset. I said, so what went on? He goes, yeah, 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.120 mom and dad got in a fight, and I guess 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.640 dad cut every telephone wire in the house. 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:18.280 Was less a drinker. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.280 He was a heavy alcoholic. 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.880 One of the few people that Keith opened up to 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.520 about his childhood was a true crime author and psychologist 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:51.640 named al Carlyle. Melissa met him almost completely by chance. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.200 I was invited to go to crime con and this 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.680 gentleman approached the booth and he said, hey, you know, 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:04.920 I've got this author who's working on serial killers. And 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.320 he said, well, his name is al Carlyle and he 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.760 studied Ted Bundy and he's working on a chapter of 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.840 the serial killer named Keith Hunter. Jesperson so when I 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:19.160 got that calm, I called him immediately, and I loved 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.560 his perspective. He had stories that I've never even heard 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.880 of before about the man I thought I knew. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:34.599 Unfortunately, the night before we were supposed to interview Al Carlyle, 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:39.559 he passed away in his sleep, and it was heartbreaking. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.679 He was such a fascinating, brilliant man. But we were 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.960 able to reach out to Stephen Booth, his publisher, and 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.440 also to Carrie Ann Keller, who was his researcher and 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:51.319 writing assistant. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.920 Keith felt that I had a real mission to understand 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.040 bylent behavior, so that was their common ground. They each 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:06.120 felt the other could provide valuable information. Once Al was 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.600 up there interviewing Keith, and Keith said to Al, I 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.760 could reach over this table and snap your head before 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.720 the guard would even notice. I don't because I don't 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:22.200 want to lose my privileges. He wasn't threatening Al, he 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.120 was just making a point about his size. Okay, So 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.600 that's how you have to understand how Keith could talk. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:28.720 So it's like. 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.760 Being in a room with a loaded gun. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.959 Oh yeah, for sure, definitely you feel it. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.360 My name is Stephen Booth. I have been the publisher 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:46.240 at Genius Book Publishing since twenty eleven. Keith Jefferson was 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.320 in a situation where he had a very manipulative father. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.760 The father, by the way, freaks me out. He had 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.599 a very manipulative father. He was required to be obedient 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:59.080 at all times, he was given conflicting information about what 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.720 ethical standards were and how to behave, and he was 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.840 isolated from his family, even by his own siblings. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.920 What's incredible, though, is that Al Carlisle's family gave us 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.520 the tapes of his interviews with Jessperson in prison, and 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:24.440 you can hear the intimate details and how much Keith 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:25.280 opened up to him. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.920 Brad the older, Brad was a younger. Bruce is the oldest. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.040 When did they start calling you? Igor? 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:38.319 Was my junior high I was in eighth grade, and 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.480 then Brad was in the seventh grade and he wanted 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.360 to be big with his friends, so he started calling 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.160 me Igor because of the Monster movies, and I figured 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.280 out was his psidekick. I was big physically at the 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.520 time and slow slow physically. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.400 Well, I was. I was. I was big, and I 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.520 was not very well co ordinated. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.240 No, not really intelligent. I'm very intelligent. But I just 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.720 didn't adapt myself to it. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.040 Keith was made to pay his own room and board 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.320 when the other kids were not made to do that, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.040 so he would be an example to the other siblings. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.959 And this was when he was twelve thirteen years old, precisely. 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.480 Yes, you know, the father forced him to work. He 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.360 got paid a pittance. Most of that money went back 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.480 to roomin to board, and whatever was left over the 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.680 father basically took out of the bank account. And whenever 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.240 he got into trouble, everybody pointed the finger at Keith. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.160 His siblings did, his father did, his friends did. He 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:47.760 was isolated, harboring a lot of resentment, violent rage like 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.679 resentment towards his father. And I mean, what was that 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.760 story about him, the boy when he was about eight 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.000 years old who kept blaming him for things and then 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.960 Keith let loose and tried to beat him to death. 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.400 Oh, I have a memory that kid young. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:06.920 Yeah, it was just he was every time he would say, 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.920 well Keith did this, and Keith did that, and I'd 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.160 get the belt and I'd get nailed and I'd get 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.080 punished and so forth, he'd sit back laugh hah ha ha, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.800 this is funny. And one day, I caught him off 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.920 the back door when he was ready to scream Keith 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.800 did it and I was beating him, damn or to death. 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.640 You're old when I was about eight years old at 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.600 the time, when you were eating the kid, did you 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.960 feel you're in control? Did you just lose it with 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.880 his song? I just lost it. I didn't. I didn't. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.720 I don't think they had anything to do with control, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.280 and just had paybacks a bitch, you know. And I 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.400 just grabbed him and just started wailing him. Of course 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.280 I didn't know him to stop. I was going to 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:46.960 beat him to death. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.200 He was put in a position where he could not win, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.280 and he could not take his rage out on his 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.360 father because father I had have dialed in. So he 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.640 took his rage out on the closest person to him, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.959 who was embarrassing him. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.360 You know, I sure taught him elast him. So even 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.320 by the age of eight, there was a lot of anger. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.960 Yeah, there was anger there angers, Yeah you do me wrong. 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.560 It was like, yeah, I was you doing me wrong? 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.840 I was I was gonna. I was bounding and determined 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:33.880 to get even from I. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:39.640 The creation of a serial killer by Jack Olsen, sometimes 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.440 the Jesperson males proud the creek banks for muskrats. I'd 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.520 yank one out of the water by its tail and 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.320 throw it up on the bank. Then Dad or one 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.440 of my brothers would club it to death. We also 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.960 killed gophers, hundreds of them. They were a farm pest 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.920 and nobody missed them. Dad has films of us boys 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.520 blood splattered from k killing gophers and other varmints. It 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.160 was our form of recreation. After we grew up and 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.080 got married, Dad liked to show the film to our wives. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.840 He would joke watch my natural born killers as they 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.120 dispense of their victims. You don't want to run into 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:27.640 them in a dark alley. 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.840 Based on their jail health interview. What did al make 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.520 of my dad's childhood. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.120 He was fascinated by his passivity, you know, Keith's passivity 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.280 as a child. This dichonomous behavior of a shy and 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.080 passive child who becomes fully the opposite as an adult 0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:00.120 was very interesting to him. He understood how Keith was 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.080 bitter about the control his father had over him. He 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.720 knew he wasn't able to stand up to his father's dominance, 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.000 but Keith accepted it, you know, as his lot. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:15.800 In life and he kind of liked it because well 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.520 he did full trapped by his father. He was afraid 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.400 of his father. He also had a strong desire to 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.240 have his dad love him. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.600 I feared my grandfather like even though he never hit me, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.480 I was terrified at my grandfather being angry with me 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.080 because I don't know what he would do. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.240 Maybe even know about the motorcycle story. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:44.400 I do. I do. So he has this motorcycle, Keith 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.920 that he saved up money for a brand new motorcycle. Okay, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.000 it's not a piece of junk like from cobble together Junkyard. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.400 And I had bought it in a seven p fifty 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.560 hand a motorcycle. It was a seventy four brand new 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.920 gold Mati orange, you know, like a bright orange colored. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:04.119 It was a beautiful bike. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.840 And it came hunting season and I was working for 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.520 Dad at the time, and Brad and I wanted to 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.040 go hunting over on the coast by Klama. Of course, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.640 we need a four wheel drive and I was gonna 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.240 use the company pickup. Well, I said, Dad, can I 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.560 use the company pick up? And he says, shirkey, But 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.560 one stipulation and I knew was coming, and he says, 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.960 you leave me your motorcycle so I could go on 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.600 a motorcycle ride with that. And I said no, because 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.439 you're gonna get drunk and you're gonna get on it 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:33.400 and you're gonna wreck the bike. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.159 Oh I am gonna drink. And I said no, I 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:38.760 false promises. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.840 You know, well, in order for me to get to 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:52.320 pick up, I had to give him the bike. So 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:53.920 I get to pick up, and I load up and 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.240 the Honting supplies and we take off over the Klama. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.160 We have a hell of a nice time all weekend long. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.800 I got in the morning on Monday morning, I go 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.879 back to the dump truck in the backyard. We have 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.000 a swimming pool to dig that day. And I walked 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.680 through the back door and I said, where the hell's 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.720 dad at? And we got this swimming pool to dig 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.600 over here, And Mom said, oh, you don't know. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.679 He says he wrecked the motorcycle. He's in the hospital. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.520 And I guess Keith was on an architect trip or something. 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.159 What happened when he came back, do you know? 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.880 Well, then Keith had to run the businesses. He had 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.760 to do everything. He was the sole provider for two families. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.240 His dad and mine. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.080 Ours, and so I call up the company there. 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:41.960 The people that were going to do the swimming pool 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:43.520 told me I wouldn't be there. My dad's in the 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.520 hospital and I have to go take care of business. 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.800 So I go to Sainte's hospital and there he his 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.880 dad up there on the floor and he's they operated 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.639 on reports blane and his face is all bandaged up, 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:57.560 kind of nose and down are off. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.840 He hit a bob wire and I cut up his intestines. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.120 He has a big stars. He had a big scar 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:06.680 in his face. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.280 I get up there and he's like looked at me, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:10.399 and I said, well, what happened? 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:10.760 Daddy? 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.080 You gotta you gotta get back that motorcycle you got. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.119 You gotta take care of all the evidence. Keith, you 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.320 gotta take care of it. I said, what what do 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.520 you mean to take care of us? Go get rid 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.640 of it. So you've been drinkingnoyment? He said, just take 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:24.720 care of it way you said, we. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.639 Don't want that insurance company knowing that I was riding drunk. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:27.960 Right. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.520 Did Keith drink No? 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.600 No, it was absolutely like no alcohol. He was the 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.200 only one out of all my aunts and uncle said, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.359 didn't drink at all. I I grew up and you 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.840 didn't drink either. You and dad didn't drink at all. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.840 And I'm growing up no, because my father was an 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.600 alcoholic too, and so you either choose it or you don't. 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.280 And I chose not to. And that's your dad chose 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:51.160 not to drink either. 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.160 But I get up to my dad and I sat 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.480 up to the hospital and my mom's there, and I said, well, Dad, 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.560 I got rid of all that. And he said, good good, 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.760 good goodness. Now, why were you drinking on my motor 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.760 my motorcycle? Says I wasn't drinking on your motorcycle. Yes, 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:10.160 your word, he says, prove it. You can't prove it. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.680 So you got rid of all the evidence, so you 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:12.360 can't prove shit. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:22.240 I'll give you your Cota Molliqua for your lotter olive. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.760 You drunk of all up? 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:31.400 Whoa, And that's basically how it all lands up, says 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:32.040 everything is. 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.000 I was covering up everything. I said. I was like 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:37.040 eighteen at that time. 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:46.199 Yeah. 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.439 Less basically made Keith go hide the evidence so that 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.560 he could get insurance money that it didn't know. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.960 It wouldn't surprise me because LUs was very famous for that. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.879 His business ethics of that was that the boss was 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.920 always right and the employees were always wrong, which. 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.399 Man the employee took the heat. Yes, it did, and 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:11.400 I'm just getting to that. 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.520 His idea was that if there's any problems that occurred 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.600 on the job, that I would get shit on and 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.080 he would get the glory of saying I'm sorry or 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.840 whatever like that. I'll it'll never happen, you know, I'll 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:27.920 just make sure my son never does this stuff again. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.960 So I was like the blueted an idiot, you know, 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:30.600 and doing all that. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.800 And I kind of laughed one day because my dad 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:36.800 was on the bacco when he was digging next to 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.280 his house and he put the bucket right through the 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.480 side of the house. He has no depth perception. That 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.800 was one of his problems. That he stuck the bucket 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:46.280 to the side of the house. And the people were 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:47.800 in the house and they were looking out and they 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.840 saw him running thebacco right and they come running out 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.199 of the corner. But by the time they got around 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.360 to who the bacca was, he'd already stop machine. 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.480 And he'd gotten me on that. And they were looking at. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.720 Him and looked at me, and I said, I did it, 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.040 and they were like, why do you put up with that? 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.560 I said, that's the way it is. I am the 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:09.960 ship on. 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.119 Less told him this is the way what you're going 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:20.280 to say in court, and Keith did in order for 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.880 them to win a court case for the motilepart line 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.199 or absolutely did it. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.720 Seems like he wasn't the most honest man. 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:33.480 No, no, he wasn't. He swindled people. I called him 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.119 a swindler, and he had a really good lawyer. 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:44.160 My understanding is that, how do I say this? Left 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.439 to his own devices, Keith would have been a pretty 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:51.040 happy kid. He described his childhood as being fairly happy, 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.720 and he would have probably not Harvard as much rage. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.639 He probably would have been somebody who got along with people. 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.840 But from al to me, from Keith to tell to me, 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:08.680 his childhood was more a matter of he was the target. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.720 He was the scapegoat, for lack of a better word, 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:20.040 of everybody's need to avoid Less's rage or manipulation or 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.439 whatever it is. He had nobody backing him up, and 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.280 he didn't even know how to back himself up, so 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.359 all he could do was absorb all this negative energy 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:34.200 about everything that was going on. 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:51.760 There's an interview with your dad about your grandfather made 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:56.200 him go visit a friend of your grandfather's who was dying, 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:58.720 and your dad was really resentful because he had to 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.959 go sit and make conversations with his dying man, because 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.000 your grandfather said nobody should have to die alone. And 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.760 your dad was talking to the guy before he realized 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:09.879 he had already passed away. 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:11.800 I had no idea about this. 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.840 Dad still treated me like the run of the litter, 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.920